Grey County Committee of the Whole Meeting Transcript — March 12, 2026

00:00:02 Brian Milne: Thank you, Rob.

00:00:04 Brian Milne: Indeed, I'll call our committee to order for the whole meeting this morning.

00:00:07 Brian Milne: Is there any declaration of any interest related to any item on today's agenda?

00:00:14 Brian Milne: Not seeing one.

00:00:14 Brian Milne: Of course, you can declare it at any time if something arises.

00:00:18 Brian Milne: Business arising from the minutes, Councillor McQueen, you have a notice of motion.

00:00:23 Brian Milne: I'll ask first if you're prepared to move that motion.

00:00:26 Brian Milne: Thank you.

00:00:27 Brian Milne: Is there a seconder, Councillor Nielsen?

00:00:30 Brian Milne: Thank you very much, Councillor McQueen.

00:00:31 Brian Milne: You don't want to speak towards your motion, please.

00:00:36 Paul Mcqueen: Deputy Warden, and as you probably all are experiencing through your budget process, insurance is up.

00:00:44 Paul Mcqueen: Our municipal insurance, I know that ours was up like $186,000 this year, and I know there's a lot of things that come into play, but it does never seem to ever go down.

00:00:54 Paul Mcqueen: So the idea of this motion, and I will read it:

00:00:57 Paul Mcqueen: that staff prepare a report for the Joint Municipal Services Committee regarding potential efficiencies and cost savings for Grey County municipalities as it relates to municipal insurance, including options for shared and joint RFP processes.

00:01:11 Paul Mcqueen: And I understand I think the county is looking at going out this year.

00:01:13 Paul Mcqueen: And I just got thinking, that why not if there's an opportunity for other municipalities to collectively go together, and maybe it all depends on your cycles of, you know, usually insurance is once a year,

00:01:25 Paul Mcqueen: but you know maybe you're happy with who you have, but sometimes you know you got to go out there and sharpen the pencil and see what comes back.

00:01:33 Paul Mcqueen: And so it's an opportunity for that maybe to look at, you know, the opportunity to coming back and maybe pull some of the lower tiers and stuff.

00:01:41 Paul Mcqueen: But I, you know, we can't not try to save money, and that's something that we can all be part of.

00:01:59 Paul Mcqueen: And let's.

00:02:00 Paul Mcqueen: I think there's only four municipal insurers that do municipal insurance, so you know there is a small pool there, no doubt.

00:02:07 Brian Milne: But you know what?

00:02:08 Brian Milne: If you don't know, you don't know what you don't know if you don't go out.

00:02:22 Randy Scherzer: So anyway, that's my motion, Mr. Deputy Warden.

00:02:25 Randy Scherzer: Okay, thank you, sir.

00:02:27 Randy Scherzer: Anyone have any questions or any discussion on the motion?

00:02:31 Randy Scherzer: Okay.

00:02:32 Randy Scherzer: Oh, Randy, you want to talk to that?

00:02:34 Randy Scherzer: Thank you, Deputy Warden, and thank you for the notice of motion, Councillor McQueen.

00:02:42 Randy Scherzer: With respect to the motion, we are still having internal discussions on what we're planning to do as it relates to the county insurance policy and our current brokers that we have.

00:02:44 Randy Scherzer: So based on some initial thoughts, may not be this year that we go out, but maybe the following year.

00:03:01 Randy Scherzer: So, we're still having some of those discussions internally to determine what makes the most sense from a timing perspective.

00:03:06 Randy Scherzer: So, just wanted to note that as part of this.

00:03:13 Randy Scherzer: Any further discussions related to this particular motion, of course, staff will take direction from council in terms of if there's information that you'd want us to bring back through the Joint Municipal Services Committee.

00:03:15 Randy Scherzer: We have done some initial research, and we're not sure if there would be any cost savings or efficiencies gained.

00:03:17 Randy Scherzer: But in saying that, we're happy to explore that further if County Council wishes staff to look at that from a timing perspective.

00:03:24 Randy Scherzer: We're not sure when we'd be able to bring that report forward, but we'll try to do our best if Council directs staff to do so.

00:04:08 Paul Mcqueen: Thank you, Randy.

00:04:08 Paul Mcqueen: Anyone have any thoughts, Councillor?

00:04:10 Paul Mcqueen: Any thoughts, Councillor Eccles?

00:04:11 Paul Mcqueen: Please.

00:04:12 Paul Mcqueen: Through you to Councillor McQueen.

00:04:14 Paul Mcqueen: What are we looking for?

00:04:15 Paul Mcqueen: What are what are your expectations, or what are you looking to gain from this?

00:04:20 Paul Mcqueen: Yeah.

00:04:21 Paul Mcqueen: Thank you, Mr. Warden to Councillor Eccles.

00:04:23 Paul Mcqueen: Volume.

00:04:24 Paul Mcqueen: If if if you go out individually, and we've done this with other parts of our business with the municipality and county, like ROPing and all different things,

00:04:33 Paul Mcqueen: so my thought is if if it's if it hits the right cycle through your lower tier, then if the lower municipality is going out for an RFP,

00:04:43 Paul Mcqueen: but I think if there's two or three or nine plus the county, I think you're going.

00:04:48 Paul Mcqueen: I think there'd be a bit of a volume that, at least I think they would, those insurance companies would go, hmm.

00:04:54 Paul Mcqueen: We're looking for a report.

00:04:56 Paul Mcqueen: I don't have all the details or all the information there, but I'm just thinking that if there's an opportunity to save on insurance through bulk processing, why wouldn't we try that?

00:05:07 Paul Mcqueen: You know, we've done it other parts of our business, and at the end of the day, you know, you don't know if you don't try.

00:05:12 Paul Mcqueen: But I just think that we haven't, our municipality hasn't gone out for quite a long time, and because you know you're sort of probably with insurance,

00:05:18 Paul Mcqueen: you're probably caught up with different things within your provider and stuff like that.

00:05:23 Paul Mcqueen: But I think at some point, same with auditing, same with a lot of different things, I think it comes to a certain point where you need to go out just to see.

00:05:34 Paul Mcqueen: And I you know I've heard the things, yeah, they come back with a sharper pencil and it's a sharper, better price, and then they keep tacking it on as you go through,

00:05:48 Paul Mcqueen: and I've heard those things as well.

00:05:50 Paul Mcqueen: But I just I know from our municipality we've been with the same company for quite a long time, and not saying that they're not doing us a good job.

00:05:57 Paul Mcqueen: But I just know, you know, our insurance went up $186,000 this year, as two percent.

00:06:01 Paul Mcqueen: And I'm not sure how I'm sure it's not on similar to other municipalities because insurance keeps going up too.

00:06:15 Kevin Eccles: But I know we're, we're, we have tough budgets and that type of thing.

00:06:22 Kevin Eccles: So it's the volume part that I'm thinking of, Councillor Eccles, that if we jointly those that wish to be part of an RFP, and maybe it's not this coming year, but the following year.

00:06:38 Kevin Eccles: But I think it's something that that we all have to start thinking about.

00:06:45 Kevin Eccles: And if it's uh if it if it works to line things up, then I think it's something that we should investigate.

00:06:56 Kevin Eccles: Okay, Councillor Dubreuil, please.

00:06:58 Kevin Eccles: Thank you, Deputy Warden, and thank you for the motion.

00:07:33 Kevin Eccles: While I'm not unsupportive of getting information and looking for opportunities to save our municipalities, you know, expenses that are that are out of our control, where we have no say in how much we spend,

00:07:42 Kevin Eccles: ours in Southgate was 11, and 30 and 35 percent in previous years, because it depends on the incidents, the claims.

00:07:44 Kevin Eccles: You know, you have a fire.

00:07:45 Kevin Eccles: You have, you know, a garbage truck catches fire or an arena catches fire.

00:07:47 Kevin Eccles: In in your, you know, next year, look out.

00:07:50 Kevin Eccles: But um, but but the, but the aspect of having group insurance, if that is what comes back, is that we'd also be bearing the increase of another municipality's incidences.

00:08:26 Paul Mcqueen: So. if a municipality has a lot more facilities and a and and you know higher level of service and vehicles and all of that,

00:08:35 Paul Mcqueen: they would necessarily be paying more than a municipality that is smaller, who has less service, like less population.

00:08:37 Paul Mcqueen: So, I'm while I'm not unsupportive of getting information, we need to have the information that in you know it's all well and good to save money up front,

00:08:39 Paul Mcqueen: but who bears the cost of the increase when it's one municipality's occurrence?

00:08:41 Paul Mcqueen: I'm not sure where that lands, but that would be up to the report to to to flesh out.

00:08:46 Paul Mcqueen: Thank you.

00:08:46 Paul Mcqueen: Thank you for that, Councillor McLean.

00:08:48 Paul Mcqueen: And let's just bear in mind we're not debating insurance costs, we're debating: Do we want to get more information?

00:08:53 Paul Mcqueen: Councillor McQueen, please.

00:08:55 Paul Mcqueen: There we go.

00:08:55 Paul Mcqueen: Yeah, I, I, yeah, that's what it come back in that report.

00:09:03 Paul Mcqueen: I, in my mind, it wouldn't be one insurance policy that would do all the mispellings.

00:09:07 Paul Mcqueen: I'm looking at that we jointly go each individually, but in a block.

00:09:09 Paul Mcqueen: So that's where my thinking.

00:09:11 Paul Mcqueen: It's like, yeah, it.

00:09:13 Paul Mcqueen: But you know, when it comes to losses and stuff, yeah, it's yeah,

00:09:16 Paul Mcqueen: it's it's it's hard to calculate that in a sense of you got some bad years and maybe you don't want to quote because you're locked in at this price.

00:09:32 SPEAKER_406: But I think it's worth having a report come back and look at those options.

00:09:39 SPEAKER_406: But in my mind, it wasn't one insurance policy that does all the Grey Highlands and all the lower tier.

00:09:46 SPEAKER_406: It would be individually, but going together at the same time, sort of like a certain.

00:09:52 SPEAKER_406: Sort of like, sort of like, it could be like Owen Sound getting six trucks.

00:09:57 SPEAKER_406: Didn't get that.

00:10:00 SPEAKER_406: They're talking over there anyway.

00:10:01 SPEAKER_406: But you know what I mean.

00:10:04 SPEAKER_406: Like it's sort of you're going.

00:10:05 SPEAKER_406: It's volume buying in a way, but you're individually.

00:10:08 SPEAKER_406: That's sort of my thinking.

00:10:10 SPEAKER_406: But that that that's something that has to be investigated.

00:10:14 SPEAKER_406: And like I say, you don't know if you don't look at it, right?

00:10:22 SPEAKER_406: So, very good.

00:10:23 SPEAKER_406: Anyone else?

00:10:24 SPEAKER_406: You want to have a go at your trucks?

00:10:26 SPEAKER_406: No. Good.

00:10:27 SPEAKER_406: Excellent, Councillor Decker, please.

00:10:32 Randy Scherzer: Thank you.

00:10:33 Randy Scherzer: Just wondering, I did have a chance to talk with RCA briefly on it, and her concern was, and been mentioned by Councillor Green,

00:10:41 Randy Scherzer: the number of differences between the municipalities and the mitigating actions that have already been taken by each municipality as to try and cut back on some of those costs.

00:10:58 Randy Scherzer: So.

00:10:59 Randy Scherzer: I guess my question is to CAO Scherzer: Will you be going out to the CAOs to see whether there's interest on each part of those municipalities, or I think we did it two years ago.

00:11:12 Randy Scherzer: We had an RFP done, and it was two people that bid on it.

00:11:18 Randy Scherzer: That was all that there was.

00:11:25 SPEAKER_407: There seemed to be almost a lack of interest.

00:11:52 Paul Mcqueen: So while she did indicate there might be some benefits to how that RFP is created, there's really a lot of individual needs and requirements across the nine municipalities.

00:12:02 Paul Mcqueen: So I guess my question is: Would you be going to the CAOs first before moving ahead with that?

00:12:03 Paul Mcqueen: Through you, Deputy Gordon.

00:12:04 Paul Mcqueen: Thank you for the question, Councillor Dicker.

00:12:05 Paul Mcqueen: So I think depending on obviously the direction from Council with respect to this current motion,

00:12:07 Paul Mcqueen: there no doubt had to be discussions with CAs and each of the municipalities with respect to what this potentially could look like from what sounds like a bulk buying RFP perspective.

00:12:27 Paul Mcqueen: So for sure, we would be having further discussions with the CAs to see what if they felt there was any potential for savings and opportunities to work together with respect to that piece.

00:12:36 Paul Mcqueen: So, but again, that's subject to the direction of Council whether or not they want to proceed with staff bringing forward that report.

00:12:38 Paul Mcqueen: Thank you, Randy.

00:12:39 Paul Mcqueen: Councillor Hope, please.

00:12:39 Paul Mcqueen: There.

00:12:40 Paul Mcqueen: All right.

00:12:40 Paul Mcqueen: Thank you.

00:12:40 Paul Mcqueen: Good morning, and thank you, Deputy Warden, and thank you for the notice of motion.

00:12:42 Paul Mcqueen: Just wondering about the second part, including options for shared and joint RFP processes.

00:12:55 Paul Mcqueen: We haven't talked about that, and I'm just wondering where that is right now in terms of the motion itself.

00:13:05 Paul Mcqueen: Thank you, Catherine McQueen.

00:13:05 Paul Mcqueen: Well, I guess that would be part of what would come back in the report of what options are there for.

00:13:07 Paul Mcqueen: And I think from point of handover, if they didn't want to be part of it, then you wouldn't be part of it, right?

00:13:09 Paul Mcqueen: I think that's I think it's really important that through this report, RCO talk to our RCEOs and have a bit of a conversation.

00:13:12 Paul Mcqueen: Is there an opportunity?

00:13:13 Paul Mcqueen: Is there some opportunity for savings?

00:13:15 Paul Mcqueen: I think we got to look at too is deductibles.

00:13:19 Paul Mcqueen: You know what what's what's deductibles like?

00:13:22 Paul Mcqueen: You know, you always keep adding up your deductibles and it keeps driving your insurance down or keeps it a level,

00:13:28 Paul Mcqueen: but you end up having to have a separate reserve for your deductibles because you know that sort of thing.

00:13:35 Paul Mcqueen: So again, shared or our processes.

00:13:39 Paul Mcqueen: RFP processes.

00:13:39 Paul Mcqueen: I'm looking more to the joint RFP processes in the sense that, you know, individually.

00:13:46 Paul Mcqueen: But again, you won't know until you.

00:13:48 Paul Mcqueen: And again, your rate deputy deputy.

00:13:51 Paul Mcqueen: We're this is just getting back to report.

00:13:53 Paul Mcqueen: We're not debating on it.

00:13:57 Paul Mcqueen: It's bringing back that information because I don't have all the information, and I'm not.

00:14:02 Paul Mcqueen: But I know I do see it going up, and I know we're, you know, and we haven't had it for a quite a long time.

00:14:11 Kevin Eccles: But we used to have also our insurance companies come and speak to our councils about the due diligence and how do we save on risk.

00:14:25 Kevin Eccles: And you know, there could be a part of that is educating and training as well.

00:14:36 Kevin Eccles: Part of this RFP going out, or is or, you know, maybe they look at, you know, through that process, you know, they come back with, here's here's a better price.

00:14:48 Kevin Eccles: But we suggest you do this, this, and this.

00:14:53 Kevin Eccles: Well, maybe sometimes doing this, this, and this saves you money too.

00:14:57 Brian Milne: And we do not want to be in any situation where you know we're increasing our liability.

00:15:09 Kevin Eccles: You know, but due diligence, keeping records, and probably a lot of us know that around the around the horseshoe that you know it's there's that one percent rule, right?

00:15:23 Kevin Eccles: We all know that, right?

00:15:27 Kevin Eccles: If if if if you're one percent wrong, falls, and there's nobody else can pay, it's who pays, right?

00:15:34 Kevin Eccles: But it's the due diligence that protects yourself, and and so that you know I think insurance has got very, very not complicated, but very sophisticated, I think, in a way.

00:16:09 Brian Milne: So it just seeking a report, Mr. Deputy Warden, and and you know, at the end of the day, the report comes back,

00:16:18 Brian Milne: and at least we've had that opportunity to go out and look at options.

00:16:20 Brian Milne: Great, I think it's fairly.

00:16:21 Brian Milne: Councillor Debray, go ahead.

00:16:21 Brian Milne: Thank you, and not to debate it.

00:16:23 Brian Milne: I think to Member Hope's question, I'm hoping that I—I just wanted clarity that this is shared and joint RFP process specific to municipal insurance,

00:16:26 Brian Milne: because we already do joint RFP processes for our our mutual road construction, and we also have the opportunity to participate in Canoe, which is you know that grouped RFP process.

00:17:07 Brian Milne: So I just want to make sure that that we're voting on that this is specific to municipal municipal insurance and not any other joint or shared RFP process.

00:17:17 Brian Milne: Thank you, Deputy Warden.

00:17:17 Brian Milne: Thank you.

00:17:18 Brian Milne: I think it's fairly clear that it's just for insurance.

00:17:19 Brian Milne: Any other discussion, Councillor Apples?

00:17:20 Brian Milne: Where is this going?

00:17:21 Brian Milne: In to be looked at.

00:17:22 Brian Milne: We pass this motion that we're going to.

00:17:23 Brian Milne: What staff?

00:17:24 Brian Milne: What or should?

00:17:24 Brian Milne: You know, I'd like to put forward a recommendation that is be forwarded to the Joint Services Committee.

00:17:28 Brian Milne: Is that what it is?

00:17:30 SPEAKER_410: Well, from the conversation, I it was the CEOs that were going to do it.

00:17:37 SPEAKER_410: There was this.

00:17:37 SPEAKER_410: There was that.

00:17:38 SPEAKER_410: That's what it says in there.

00:17:41 SPEAKER_414: But yes, going around.

00:17:42 SPEAKER_414: Just for clarity, it's going to the Joint Services Committee for a report to come back.

00:17:48 SPEAKER_414: Thank you.

00:17:51 SPEAKER_414: Very good.

00:17:51 SPEAKER_414: Anyone else?

00:17:52 SPEAKER_414: Okay, I'll call the question.

00:17:54 SPEAKER_414: All those in favor?

00:17:55 SPEAKER_414: That is carried.

00:17:56 SPEAKER_414: Thank you very much.

00:17:58 SPEAKER_414: Okay, we do have a delegation here this morning, and it's related to the municipal transit report that's on our agenda to come later.

00:18:07 SPEAKER_414: So I'm wondering if, if with Council's indulgence, we'll do the consent agenda first, and then we'll have Stephanie introduce her report and introduce our delegation.

00:18:21 SPEAKER_414: The presentation would be done, and then Stephanie would follow up with her any discussion or questions from her report.

00:18:30 SPEAKER_414: Is that agreeable to Council?

00:18:39 SPEAKER_414: I think it makes sense to do it that way.

00:18:41 SPEAKER_410: Okay, I see some nodding heads.

00:18:42 SPEAKER_410: So number five on the agenda: determination of items requiring separate discussion.

00:18:44 SPEAKER_410: Does anyone wish any consent items removed for further discussion or direction?

00:18:53 SPEAKER_408: Councillor Hope.

00:18:54 SPEAKER_408: Hope.

00:18:54 SPEAKER_408: Six C, Bluewater District School Board.

00:18:56 SPEAKER_408: Thank you.

00:18:57 SPEAKER_408: Yeah.

00:18:58 SPEAKER_408: Okay.

00:18:58 SPEAKER_408: Anyone else?

00:18:58 SPEAKER_408: Okay, I'd take a motion to adopt the remaining items in the consent.

00:19:04 SPEAKER_408: Councillor Kivney, Councillor Hutchison.

00:19:05 SPEAKER_408: All those in favor?

00:19:07 SPEAKER_408: That is carried.

00:19:09 SPEAKER_408: Thank you very much.

00:19:18 SPEAKER_408: So moving on to seven A, our first item for direction and discussion, and this is the transit study update that has been ongoing.

00:19:27 SPEAKER_408: So I'll look for a motion to receive the report.

00:19:29 SPEAKER_408: Councillor Debrine, seconded by Councillor Carleton.

00:19:30 SPEAKER_408: I will invite Stephanie to come on up to the podium.

00:19:32 SPEAKER_408: Good morning, Stephanie.

00:19:33 SPEAKER_408: Welcome, and the floor is yours.

00:19:35 SPEAKER_408: Good morning, Your Worship.

00:19:37 SPEAKER_408: Good morning, County Council.

00:19:40 SPEAKER_408: Thank you so much for having me here today.

00:20:08 SPEAKER_408: Following our September report on the Interior Transit Investment Fund, which approves signing the provincial funding agreement and giving us permission to begin phase one of the study,

00:20:18 SPEAKER_408: the purpose of this report and presentation is to share early findings from the regional transit study and provide Council an opportunity for input to help inform and shape the next steps of Phase One.

00:20:20 SPEAKER_408: Today, Dennis Carr from Dylan Consulting will summarize what has been learned through our engagement today, preliminary service concepts and network design principles, opportunity for integration with existing services, early considerations and options for governance models,

00:20:31 SPEAKER_408: and key elements that will shape the recommended plan.

00:20:48 SPEAKER_408: Your feedback today at this stage is important to ensure the study reflects local priorities and operational realities.

00:20:57 SPEAKER_408: The draft plan will be presented back to each County Council and the Smart Board in May of 2026.

00:20:59 SPEAKER_408: So, thank you for your time today, and without further ado, I will pass it off to Dennis Carr.

00:21:03 SPEAKER_408: Welcome, sir.

00:21:04 SPEAKER_408: And the floor is yours.

00:21:05 SPEAKER_408: Thank you.

00:21:06 SPEAKER_408: Good morning, Your Worship, and members of County Council.

00:21:11 SPEAKER_408: And thank you for the introduction, Stephanie.

00:21:14 SPEAKER_408: Stephanie, in order, my name is Dennis Carr.

00:21:16 SPEAKER_408: I'm a project manager for this assignment, and we've been working together with all four counties, along with Soggy Mobility and Regional Transit Services, for the past few months,

00:21:27 SPEAKER_408: looking at the opportunity to develop a unified transit network within Grey, Bruce, Durham, and Wellington counties.

00:21:34 SPEAKER_408: So, thank you again for having me here today.

00:21:37 SPEAKER_408: So, I'll first begin with the study purpose, and I'm sure many of you are aware of the purpose of this study, but I just want to reiterate it.

00:21:50 SPEAKER_408: The purpose is to design and assess the feasibility of a unified transit network across all four counties.

00:21:59 SPEAKER_408: And this is being led through participation by Bruce, Dufferin, Grey, and Wellington, along with SMART.

00:22:07 SPEAKER_408: So right now, this initial phase, which has received funding through the Ontario Transit Investment Fund, is to assess that feasibility of what intercommunity transit could look like and how to connect all four counties together,

00:22:22 SPEAKER_408: providing a sustainable mobility option for residents.

00:22:25 SPEAKER_408: As Stephanie mentioned, if we move forward, the next phase of the funding will be to start to look at getting OTIF funding to support operations of the funding program over a four-year period.

00:22:39 SPEAKER_408: So why unify transit, and why are we doing the study?

00:23:00 SPEAKER_408: You know, many of you may have heard my presentation that I gave to various members of council across all four counties and the various municipalities about the challenges of implementing transit in large rural areas.

00:23:09 SPEAKER_408: We don't have that density to support that many urban systems have, but that need is still there.

00:23:11 SPEAKER_408: That need for mobility options, particularly those who don't have access to an automobile during inclement weather conditions, is still there.

00:23:13 SPEAKER_408: But recognizing that challenge, the unification of transit across these four counties will help it serve three purposes.

00:23:22 SPEAKER_408: The first is to create a seamless passenger experience.

00:23:27 SPEAKER_408: So understanding that challenge of, you know, ensuring that we have enough ridership.

00:23:31 SPEAKER_408: If you're an auto driver and you cross a municipal boundary, you're not required to transfer when you're going to another crossing a border.

00:23:38 SPEAKER_408: You're not required to pay another fare when you're crossing a border or wait, and so we want to make sure that there's that same seamless passenger experience,

00:23:48 SPEAKER_408: because people's travel patterns aren't necessarily limited to one county or one municipality.

00:23:51 SPEAKER_408: They cross these invisible boundaries quite regularly.

00:24:09 SPEAKER_408: So, what does that look like in terms of trip booking, minimizing transfers, reducing wait time, or even creating a consistent eligibility for persons with disabilities to use specialized transit service?

00:24:18 SPEAKER_408: It also can also help identify efficiencies through collaboration and taking advantage of a number of resources.

00:24:20 SPEAKER_408: So, things like reducing duplication of services, looking at shared procurement models that will help to save on resources, you know, reducing administrative oversight of this shared service.

00:24:26 SPEAKER_408: So, these are some things that we'll look at, and finally, helps create that unified voice.

00:24:31 SPEAKER_408: Unified voice from senior levels towards senior levels of government to advocate for things such as improved service and funding.

00:24:39 SPEAKER_408: So four counties, sort of working together, creates that stronger voice than each county doing it individually.

00:24:53 SPEAKER_408: So in terms of our overall schedule, as I mentioned before, we began this project in October 2025, and over the past few months, we've been really focusing on engagement and understanding the existing situation.

00:25:02 SPEAKER_408: What are the gaps in the service?

00:25:04 SPEAKER_408: What are the needs?

00:25:05 SPEAKER_408: What's the ridership potential?

00:25:07 SPEAKER_408: And we've been looking at different concepts and developing the plan.

00:25:10 SPEAKER_408: And that's why we're here today, is to present some of those concepts to you and to get your important feedback on what a unified transit service could look like.

00:25:25 SPEAKER_408: Once we get that feedback, we're going to be back to it.

00:25:35 SPEAKER_408: You know, refining some of these concepts, developing preliminary recommendations, and going back to engagement and refining it through public feedback.

00:25:43 SPEAKER_408: And as Stephanie mentioned, presenting back to each of the county councils in the SMART Board invite.

00:25:53 SPEAKER_408: So, in terms of the goal of this session, it's really to get your input.

00:25:59 SPEAKER_408: We're not asking for any decisions here today.

00:26:03 SPEAKER_408: We just really want to get your feedback.

00:26:06 SPEAKER_408: And I'm going to present a couple of areas where we particularly want to focus on.

00:26:13 SPEAKER_408: Not to ask at least now, but I'll repeat these questions as we get to the end of the presentation.

00:26:20 SPEAKER_408: The first is, what are your thoughts on some of the preliminary transit options that we had identified?

00:26:26 SPEAKER_408: Do the concepts make sense?

00:26:28 SPEAKER_408: Do you see what do you think about the participation of SMART?

00:26:34 SPEAKER_408: Do you support those private partnership opportunities that we're presenting to you?

00:26:37 SPEAKER_408: What are your priorities to focus on if funding is limited?

00:26:40 SPEAKER_408: You know, so these are again different questions we want to ask.

00:26:46 SPEAKER_408: Is there priority to focus on corridors where we have the ridership, the highest ridership potential, or focus on getting more equitable level of service?

00:26:57 SPEAKER_408: Recognizing we may get less ridership if we spread out throughout the entire county, right?

00:27:06 SPEAKER_408: So those are decisions that need to be made.

00:27:09 SPEAKER_408: What about governance models?

00:27:12 SPEAKER_408: We've done a very preliminary review of some governance models.

00:27:17 SPEAKER_408: Do you have any feedback on sort of how you see this being structured?

00:27:23 SPEAKER_408: And then finally, what are key measures of success that should be in place to mitigate risks?

00:27:32 SPEAKER_408: And eventually, the end of the OTEP program in four years' time.

00:27:37 SPEAKER_408: So many of you may have seen this slide before when we took a quick look at the existing landscape.

00:27:45 SPEAKER_408: We understand that mobility options are limited.

00:27:47 SPEAKER_408: There's local transit services in place, but they're fairly limited to Owen Sound, Blue Mountains, the town of Blue Mountains, and Orangeville, as well as the city of Guelph,

00:27:59 SPEAKER_408: which is within or in and around Wellington County.

00:28:02 SPEAKER_408: There's a few intercommunity corridors that connect municipalities, but again, fairly limited.

00:28:09 SPEAKER_408: Two are operated publicly.

00:28:11 SPEAKER_408: One is the Flex Bus, that's a private sector corridor, operates on between Collingwood and Owen Sound.

00:28:18 SPEAKER_408: Specialized transit is in place.

00:28:20 SPEAKER_408: Each of the local municipalities have their own specialized service.

00:28:24 SPEAKER_408: Soggy Mobility provides specialized transit as well, and there's a number of community agencies as well that provide services, primarily focused on medical day programs and some social rides.

00:28:36 SPEAKER_408: Bruce County has carpooling, and there's also again several private carriers in place.

00:28:42 SPEAKER_408: But even with these services, again serving such a broad area, there's still mobility gaps in place.

00:28:48 SPEAKER_408: As I mentioned before, there's no local transit service outside of Owen Sound and the Blue Mountains within Grey County.

00:28:56 SPEAKER_408: So, if you need to make you know trips locally within the municipality that you live in, it's very difficult to do.

00:29:05 SPEAKER_408: So, for the intercommunity services that are in place, we have what's called the corridor effect, which means you know we operate along the Highway 6 and the Highway 26 corridors,

00:29:16 SPEAKER_408: connecting as many of the settlement areas as we can.

00:29:21 SPEAKER_408: But really, some of that is limited to the ability to get to that stop, right?

00:29:26 SPEAKER_408: And you can get to it by relying on friends, neighbors, or walking.

00:29:31 SPEAKER_408: But again, that walking catchment area can be right to the middle.

00:29:37 SPEAKER_408: Area can be quite limited, as well.

00:29:40 SPEAKER_408: And then intercommunity carriers such as Flicks Bus provides some level of service, but it's it's limited and a higher cost for everyday use.

00:29:50 SPEAKER_408: Finally, with regards to specialized transit, it's provided within Owen Sound, Meaford, and the Blue Mountains.

00:29:55 SPEAKER_408: And again, rurally in the rest of the county, it's provided by Smart, but it excludes certain municipalities who are not contributors to the Smart program, including the Blue Mountains,

00:30:08 SPEAKER_408: which has a larger service area than what's covered within their specialized service agreement.

00:30:13 SPEAKER_408: Owen Sound, which has its own specialized service, and Georgian Bluffs, and the other one is the HCSS of Grey and Bruce, which again primarily focuses on medical and adult day programs,

00:30:24 SPEAKER_408: and their programs and they're experiencing significant capacity issues, and as a result, they're limiting the amount of rides that they can provide to residents because of that capacity constraint.

00:30:38 SPEAKER_408: So I'll present these very very quickly.

00:30:40 SPEAKER_408: We did a similar gap analysis for each of the other counties as well.

00:30:46 SPEAKER_408: So I'll go through these very quickly.

00:30:49 SPEAKER_408: Similar within Dufferin, local transit is only limited to the town of Orangeville.

00:30:54 SPEAKER_408: We've got that one corridor that provides limited service to Shelburne and Dundalk, and specialized transit provided by Community Care within Bruce.

00:31:06 SPEAKER_408: There's no local transit service, and so we have a seasonal flex bus service that comes in, and again,

00:31:13 SPEAKER_408: specialized transit provided by Smart and HCSs with some of the similar gaps and constraints that I identified before.

00:31:22 SPEAKER_408: And then finally, in Wellington County, which is a little bit different, they have the RideWell service, which is a door-to-door on-demand service that provides coverage across the entire county.

00:31:35 SPEAKER_408: One of the challenges with that level of service is available, as you can imagine.

00:31:43 SPEAKER_408: There's about five vehicles that service that entire county, and the ability to book a ride when you need it is limited because of that large geography.

00:31:55 SPEAKER_408: Those vehicles have to provide so provides equity and coverage, but can be challenging.

00:32:01 SPEAKER_408: And of course, you know, again, pointing to that desire for a unified network, we have the Ghost service that runs up and down the Highway 6 corridor, the Guelph, oh, the Guelph and Sound service,

00:32:15 SPEAKER_408: but only operates a couple times a day, and there's no integration with RideWell, so that ability to integrate and connect to this longer regional service is that gap and barrier.

00:32:27 SPEAKER_408: And again, one of the things that we want to look at when we're looking at unified transit, is how do we sort of leverage the two and make them work together?

00:32:39 SPEAKER_408: So in terms of that's sort of where we're sitting with our overall gaps.

00:32:45 SPEAKER_408: In terms of engagement, we were very active in our engagement process.

00:32:51 SPEAKER_408: We reached out to members of the community.

00:32:55 SPEAKER_408: We reached out to members of council.

00:32:58 SPEAKER_408: We held a number of different focus groups and held a number of different stakeholder meetings.

00:33:04 SPEAKER_408: So you can see here a summary of those engagement activities, which included two council sessions where we talked about transit, and we had about hundred and just over a hundred councilors participate in those sessions.

00:33:24 SPEAKER_408: So good to see that level of interest and engagement.

00:33:28 SPEAKER_408: We had a community survey out with over three thousand seven hundred responses across all four counties, and I'll get to that in a little bit.

00:33:42 SPEAKER_408: We put out an employer survey as well, and we met with a number.

00:33:47 SPEAKER_408: We held a couple of focus groups focused on key themes: employment, seniors, social services, youth, meeting with the Amish and Indigenous communities.

00:33:54 SPEAKER_408: So, a number of key themes that we covered, and of course met with a number of different service providers, key stakeholders,

00:34:01 SPEAKER_408: where we can get information on the existing services that are in place and how we better integrate.

00:34:09 SPEAKER_408: So, lots of discussion that was being held.

00:34:13 SPEAKER_408: In terms of the community survey, as I mentioned before, just under 3,800 responses, so very good response rate, and pretty well distributed across all four counties,

00:34:21 SPEAKER_408: which about 36% of those responses that took place from Grey County residents.

00:34:28 SPEAKER_408: We took a look at who was responding to them, but not just transit users.

00:34:32 SPEAKER_408: In fact, sixty-seven percent of respondents own or lease their own vehicle.

00:34:36 SPEAKER_408: It's a wide range of employment status, a wide range of incomes as well.

00:34:44 SPEAKER_408: So, it was a fairly broad representation of the community who responded.

00:34:48 SPEAKER_408: And what did we hear?

00:34:50 SPEAKER_408: We heard things like, "What are your top priorities for transit?"

00:34:53 SPEAKER_408: So, reliability and frequency—that vehicle is available when I need it.

00:34:57 SPEAKER_408: Those seamless connections to other transit systems, including the GO network, was identified as important.

00:35:06 SPEAKER_408: Improved coverage to all residents, so not just limited to those that live along those corridors.

00:35:12 SPEAKER_408: Easy trip planning tools, right?

00:35:14 SPEAKER_408: So, I understand how to make connections between different systems and seamless connections to local transit and lower fares.

00:35:20 SPEAKER_408: We asked how often you would use that network.

00:35:25 SPEAKER_408: So we can see some weekly use, some bi-weekly, and but also there's a lot of use of people that need it for social trips, for grocery shopping, for medical appointments, right?

00:35:40 SPEAKER_408: There's a work component and a school component, but also a discretionary component that comes with what transit,

00:35:48 SPEAKER_408: particularly if you live in a two or one car household and one member of that household has access to vehicles and others do not,

00:36:00 SPEAKER_408: or if you're one of age and place and you need access to your community, but you don't necessarily have the means to drive a vehicle.

00:36:12 SPEAKER_408: And in terms of purpose, accessing the GO network, social, recreational, shopping errands, medical appointments, work, there's a wide range of different uses that was identified through the survey.

00:36:24 SPEAKER_408: In terms of the focus group, we heard a number of key themes.

00:36:30 SPEAKER_408: Importance of ensuring that the network created was accessible for all ages and all abilities as well.

00:36:37 SPEAKER_408: Promoting economic development using transit as a tool to connect residents to places of employment and sometimes even attracting industry as well.

00:36:46 SPEAKER_408: Having that regional connectivity, recognizing that not everybody lives and works in the same community, supporting health and well being, access to medical appointments, doctors' appointments, hospital visits, etc.,

00:37:01 SPEAKER_408: and the ability to age within your home.

00:37:06 SPEAKER_408: Integration was a key theme that was identified in terms of making sure those systems are seamless and operate well, and even you know how does transit promote tourism?

00:37:17 SPEAKER_408: That's how do we you know so we've got a Flix bus or some other buses that bring people in.

00:37:27 SPEAKER_408: Well, then am I stuck to one location, or can I better explore the region as well?

00:37:32 SPEAKER_408: So lots of things that we heard through the focus groups.

00:37:38 SPEAKER_408: So understanding that, understanding that review of gaps, we started to take a look at what are some potential options.

00:37:44 SPEAKER_408: So when we first do our transit plan, we first look at what are the key destinations that we want to connect to, right?

00:37:52 SPEAKER_408: So we identified both primary and secondary destinations.

00:37:55 SPEAKER_408: And primary are really defined as those systems that are those municipalities or communities that are larger and you know have lots of amenities, employment opportunities,

00:38:07 SPEAKER_408: but also have a way to get around once you get dropped off.

00:38:13 SPEAKER_408: So these are primarily systems that have those local transit services in place.

00:38:20 SPEAKER_408: And then secondary destinations are really those hubs that are within each county, right?

00:38:24 SPEAKER_408: Where you know I might live in a community that doesn't have access to affordable grocery shopping, that doesn't have access to medical appointments,

00:38:34 SPEAKER_408: so I'm constantly going to my neighboring community to get access to those services, to look for those employment opportunities.

00:38:41 SPEAKER_408: So those are identified as those secondary destinations.

00:38:44 SPEAKER_408: We also looked at commuters and where commuters are going, and this is strictly from the census data and identified you know where are the sort of those large commuting patterns,

00:38:55 SPEAKER_408: and this obviously doesn't represent everything.

00:38:57 SPEAKER_408: We have to sort of take cut offs to identify what are the primary commuting patterns, but obviously without any surprise, Owen Sound is sort of that key destination within the county,

00:39:11 SPEAKER_408: including residents from Meaford and Chatsworth going in.

00:39:14 SPEAKER_408: Hanover is another key destination as well from residents of Durham, and you can see here what are some of those other commuting patterns that are available?

00:39:25 SPEAKER_408: We then looked at what are the major origin-destination patterns, right?

00:39:30 SPEAKER_408: So, and typically, that these are you know where people are commuting and and going to access even discretionary trips,

00:39:36 SPEAKER_408: you know within that you know half hour to forty minute travel time to that to one of those primary or secondary destinations.

00:39:45 SPEAKER_408: So basically, where are people drawn to, right?

00:39:47 SPEAKER_408: Because that's where we want to make sure that connectivity is in place.

00:39:52 SPEAKER_408: So this was based on you know combining what we heard from our survey, our discussions with stakeholders, our discussions with staff, understanding from the community, and that census data as well.

00:40:03 SPEAKER_408: And within Grey County, once again, Owen Sound continues to be one of those hubs.

00:40:10 SPEAKER_408: For Meaford, Blue Mountain, the town of Blue Mountains is drawn into Collingwood and and vice versa.

00:40:18 SPEAKER_408: There's many Collingwood residents that are going to the town to access employment opportunities with a number of the resorts.

00:40:27 SPEAKER_408: Markdale, Dundee, Dundalk also have that sort of draw into Owen Sound, but then we start to see draws into other counties as well.

00:40:39 SPEAKER_408: You know and cross draws as well.

00:40:41 SPEAKER_408: So you know, we see Dundalk and sort of that draw to Orangeville, and not just to Orangeville, but also access the GO network and the greater Toronto area as well.

00:40:53 SPEAKER_408: That Hanover being that hub between Walkerton and Durham, sort of that their destinations are primarily drawn to Hanover as well, and again the GTA and two points of access in the Guelph,

00:41:04 SPEAKER_408: where you have access to the GO train network, which can get you to Kitchener-Waterloo as well, the Greater Toronto Area as well.

00:41:15 SPEAKER_408: So those are sort of the key draws that we sort of identify.

00:41:19 SPEAKER_408: And again, going through the same exercises for each of the four counties, I won't get into this in a lot of detail.

00:41:27 SPEAKER_408: But what we do see is, you know, from Bruce, there is that draw into both Owen Sound and all over as well, right?

00:41:34 SPEAKER_408: So a lot of a lot of residents of Bruce are drawn to those for employment opportunities, medical, social, shopping, etc. So we can see that through our survey.

00:41:50 SPEAKER_408: And then Dufferin, primarily drawn to itself with both access to the Greater Toronto Area and a little bit to the east into Simcoe County and and Wellington, you know, a little bit into Listowel.

00:42:03 SPEAKER_408: Obviously, Guelph becomes a big draw in the Greater Toronto Area.

00:42:07 SPEAKER_408: A bit of a draw from Erin to Orangeville, and again that GTA network and getting to Waterloo.

00:42:13 SPEAKER_408: So you can see here, you know, sort of how we assess the overall travel patterns, and really part of this then is about connecting those dots, right,

00:42:24 SPEAKER_408: and identifying one of the major travel patterns that we want to provide a stable, reliable service to.

00:42:31 SPEAKER_408: So as we go through this process, one of the first things we wanted to do is establish a vision and guiding principles, because, and this is gained through a review of, you know, municipal policy,

00:42:44 SPEAKER_408: our discussions with various members of the community through the engagement process as well, and this sort of sets the umbrella of what transit service is going to look like.

00:42:58 SPEAKER_408: So our vision that we identified is connecting communities, building a better future.

00:43:32 SPEAKER_408: Is building a better future through a seamless multimodal transit network, and that multimodal part is important because one of the things that we want to do is leverage some of the existing opportunities in place,

00:43:41 SPEAKER_408: so I recreate the wheel, particularly when funding can be limited.

00:43:43 SPEAKER_408: And so, you know, how we do this, these are our goals.

00:43:45 SPEAKER_408: We want to ensure that the service we provide is equitable, accessible, and affordable.

00:43:47 SPEAKER_408: We want it to be customer driven.

00:43:48 SPEAKER_408: So to track ridership, we must think about the customers.

00:43:50 SPEAKER_408: Well, is it seamless?

00:43:51 SPEAKER_408: Is it connected?

00:43:51 SPEAKER_408: Is it easy to use?

00:43:53 SPEAKER_408: We want to make sure that it supports growth and economic development.

00:43:59 SPEAKER_408: So thinking about where growth is occurring in each of the counties, and making sure we support that growth through a connected service.

00:44:09 SPEAKER_408: We want to be innovative and forward thinking, not just thinking about traditional transit opportunities, but this is this needs to be a sort of made in Grey, made in Wellington, Bruce, and Dufferin solution,

00:44:30 SPEAKER_408: and fiscally responsible because ultimately that OTE funding will end, and we want to make sure it's sustainable moving forward.

00:44:37 SPEAKER_408: So the opportunities that we identified to sort of achieve that vision there are four: looking intercommunity transit integration with Smart integration with private sector mobility options, and integration with local transit, GO transit,

00:44:49 SPEAKER_408: and community care.

00:44:50 SPEAKER_408: And I'll get into these in a little bit more detail.

00:44:52 SPEAKER_408: So the first part is is looking at what are some of these conceptual corridors going to look like.

00:44:59 SPEAKER_408: And again, these are just right now concepts on a map.

00:45:02 SPEAKER_408: These are not recommendations at this point in time, but this is where we had identified based on where those key origins and destinations are, and where people want to go.

00:45:17 SPEAKER_408: What are some logical pairings that we want to look into and explore further and assess that overall demand?

00:45:25 SPEAKER_408: So these are intercommunity corridors that will have limited stops connecting communities.

00:45:31 SPEAKER_408: The full service design principle is they should operate at least three to four times a day, right?

00:45:37 SPEAKER_408: Because that provides you with mobility options, right?

00:45:41 SPEAKER_408: So if you're traveling, if you have a service that's only running twice a day, once in the morning, once in the evening, if you want to go somewhere for a discretionary trip,

00:45:53 SPEAKER_408: you're stuck in that community for eight hours, and it may not fit your schedule.

00:45:59 SPEAKER_408: So transit is also about ensuring that schedule is maintained.

00:46:03 SPEAKER_408: Looking at Saturday service as is being considered, particularly to support visitors and discretionary trips.

00:46:10 SPEAKER_408: Looking at more focused commuter routes for those short distance trips.

00:46:15 SPEAKER_408: So this is where we may introduce sort of higher levels of frequency because there's that stronger commuter demand, and again that seamless travel between the counties.

00:46:26 SPEAKER_408: So again, these are just options that we had identified.

00:46:30 SPEAKER_408: So looking into some of these in more detail, you know, the first one is looking at the Ghost corridor,

00:46:37 SPEAKER_408: and this is a service that currently operates through Owen Sound through the old Community Transportation Grant, and it operates twice a day.

00:46:46 SPEAKER_408: So one of the options we're looking at is the ridership is fairly good on this corridor.

00:46:55 SPEAKER_408: One of the challenges is it's not integrated with some of the on-demand services,

00:47:00 SPEAKER_408: and does it need to operate more frequently just to add more mobility options if you don't need to travel at those specific times where the Ghost operates?

00:47:13 SPEAKER_408: So something that we are exploring.

00:47:17 SPEAKER_408: Looking at once again extending the GTR service that starts in Dundalk and goes to Orangeville,

00:47:24 SPEAKER_408: but extending it north into Owen Sound and and connecting to a number of the settlement areas within Grey County as well.

00:47:32 SPEAKER_408: Again, what's the right frequency of that service?

00:47:35 SPEAKER_408: It's not going to operate as frequently as that current service operates.

00:47:39 SPEAKER_408: But we can also look at an opportunity to supplement something within that Shelburne to Orangeville, where that large commuter traffic and that's that's corridor number three, that sort of integrated with that Shelburne Orangeville connection.

00:47:55 SPEAKER_408: We're looking at what does that Concord to Owen Sound connection look like?

00:47:59 SPEAKER_408: This will primarily benefit Bruce County residents, but again, is that that potential connection to Bruce Power, a major employer in that area, and connecting to a number of settlement areas within the community,

00:48:26 SPEAKER_408: and again. a shorter trip between Ferguslohr and Wellwood, which is a large growing population, Wellington County, and what does that look like?

00:48:35 SPEAKER_408: Going through some of these other ones, number six is that Concord to Durham connection,

00:48:37 SPEAKER_408: and again this is that east-west connection that primarily benefits that that provides that connectivity into Hanover and and connecting a number of these communities that don't have a lot of services and employment opportunities to

00:48:40 SPEAKER_408: opportunities within Hanover,

00:48:41 SPEAKER_408: and also providing a potential north-south connection along along the Highway six corridor or that GO service, Wyarton into to Owen Sound as well.

00:48:58 SPEAKER_408: Again, strong draw for Bruce County residents to come into Owen Sound to access services.

00:49:08 SPEAKER_408: So again, something that we'd be looking at.

00:49:24 SPEAKER_408: Providing sort of that east-west link between Owen Sound and Collingwood would be another one that we would look at.

00:49:33 SPEAKER_408: There's a current Flix bus that operates that service, but it's infrequent, and it's certainly nothing that we would want to duplicate.

00:49:35 SPEAKER_408: Like so, one of the things we want to look at is, and I'll identify this in one of our future slides, is you know, how do we integrate with that service rather than duplicate it?

00:49:37 SPEAKER_408: Can we take advantage of any excess capacity so we don't have to provide it and provide that levels of connection?

00:49:41 SPEAKER_408: So we do know that there's sort of those strong connections between Nipford and Owen Sound, and and again, same is the sort of east-west connection between the Blue Mountains, Thornbury, Nipford, and Collingwood as well.

00:49:55 SPEAKER_408: So is there that opportunity to look at that east-west connection as well?

00:49:59 SPEAKER_408: And then finally, a short connection to Lockdown and Carden.

00:50:03 SPEAKER_408: Doing lockdown and primarily servicing the Amish community, who based on our discussions, there's that sort of that strong desire to connect to other parts of the of the region, including outside the region.

00:50:17 SPEAKER_408: Here, the these ones are more focused on Wellington County, so I won't get into a lot of detail.

00:50:26 SPEAKER_408: What does that connection between Mount Forest and Listowel look like?

00:50:31 SPEAKER_408: Fergus Alora to Kitchener Waterloo via Elmira and and Wolfe to Orangeville as well.

00:50:40 SPEAKER_408: So, these are some of the other opportunities that sort of are more present in the southern parts of the county.

00:50:47 SPEAKER_408: The second set of recommendations look at contract a contract on demand service to Smart.

00:50:54 SPEAKER_408: So, Look at a provider plan and a fleet plan.

00:50:59 SPEAKER_408: So, what size vehicles do we need?

00:51:03 SPEAKER_408: How is this contracted?

00:51:05 SPEAKER_408: You know, what type of service and finalize the recommendations.

00:51:09 SPEAKER_408: So, those are the next steps that we have moving forward.

00:51:14 SPEAKER_408: So, with that, I appreciate your time today.

00:51:17 SPEAKER_408: But I did want to open the floor up to questions.

00:51:24 SPEAKER_408: Through your Worship, if we can maybe just go one by one and see if members of County Council have any thoughts or any opinions of the four questions that I presented here today.

00:51:36 SPEAKER_408: Okay, thank you, sir.

00:51:38 SPEAKER_408: A lot of information there for sure.

00:51:40 SPEAKER_408: Um, I'm just wondering, would Council like to take a short break before we dive into the questions?

00:51:47 SPEAKER_408: I see a few heads nodding.

00:51:49 SPEAKER_408: Well, why don't we do that?

00:51:51 SPEAKER_408: If you don't mind, sir, we'll break for well, it's quarter past.

00:51:55 SPEAKER_408: Let's.

00:51:55 SPEAKER_408: Well, we'll try to be back in five minutes or so, and we'll go from there.

00:52:02 SPEAKER_408: Okay, we are recessed.

00:52:04 SPEAKER_408: One minute warning.

00:52:06 SPEAKER_408: Okay, we are back in session here.

00:52:08 SPEAKER_408: So, as Dennis alluded to, he has four questions there.

00:52:11 SPEAKER_408: I wonder, Dennis, should we hear from Stephanie first and then go through the questions?

00:52:18 SPEAKER_408: Because, do you have you're good?

00:52:20 SPEAKER_408: Okay, all right then.

00:52:21 SPEAKER_408: Well, we'll we'll we'll we'll press ahead with with the with the with the questions.

00:52:26 SPEAKER_408: So, Dennis, the floor is yours again.

00:52:32 SPEAKER_408: Sorry.

00:52:33 SPEAKER_408: Through your Worship, I can step with the PowerPoint presentation up again.

00:52:37 SPEAKER_408: So we have the questions now.

00:52:58 SPEAKER_408: Through your Worship, if it's all right, what I'll do is I'll go through these first questions in order, and then open up to any other general question if that's fine with members of Council.

00:53:07 SPEAKER_408: Okay, sure.

00:53:08 SPEAKER_408: And I'm always green, and it's red.

00:53:09 SPEAKER_408: Doesn't make sense.

00:53:10 SPEAKER_408: Anyway, thank you, Mister Warden or W. Warden, through you.

00:53:11 SPEAKER_408: So thank you very, very much for the presentation.

00:53:13 SPEAKER_408: And I think we would all agree that if we have a core or the core areas where the our processes are running, we want them as full as possible.

00:53:22 SPEAKER_408: So I'm going to talk about the integration part.

00:53:27 SPEAKER_408: And I like that what you say, RideWell or Uber.

00:53:31 SPEAKER_408: So in my mind, so if you had the corridor from Oceanside to Orangeville, obviously the same—I don't know if it's the same unit that drives down and drives back—but to be consistent of certain areas,

00:53:45 SPEAKER_408: and maybe it stops in Dundalk, stops in Markdale, thereabouts.

00:53:49 SPEAKER_408: Is there somewhere down the road for the integration that AI will be the brains behind figuring us all that?

00:53:57 SPEAKER_408: And the reason I say that is, if you're living on the back of the Melancton Town line, whatever, and you got to do this, this, and this, and you put it into something,

00:54:15 SPEAKER_408: and it'll tell you, okay, this is what you've got to do.

00:54:19 SPEAKER_408: Are we going to get to that point for the for the part of of the efficiencies and and so it might say, well, you on your Uber, it'll take you to here,

00:54:31 SPEAKER_408: and there's ten connecting points between Oceanside.

00:54:33 SPEAKER_408: Points between Owen Sound and Orangeville, but I guess my other question is, is it can it be just in time?

00:54:41 SPEAKER_408: Because you probably have to book ahead.

00:54:44 SPEAKER_408: I don't know, but if your bus is running fifty percent, and if you get to that site and it's stopping every two hours at a site,

00:54:56 SPEAKER_408: can you get on there if it if you have a system that says, okay, the bus is here,

00:55:05 SPEAKER_408: an hour from now it'll be stopping here through an integrated system like AI or something and configure it all out so you can, you know, through your phone today everything is, you know,

00:55:17 SPEAKER_408: apps and all that kind of stuff.

00:55:20 SPEAKER_408: Maybe I'm asking a lot of stuff, but I'm just thinking of the future wise where things are going, and you know, nowadays when you put something with AI,

00:55:28 SPEAKER_408: it'll tell you what roughly what you can do.

00:55:30 SPEAKER_408: Right?

00:55:31 SPEAKER_408: Is that going is that going to be a system that will help keep our buses full?

00:55:36 SPEAKER_408: Your Worship, that's a great question, and yes, I see a future where there's AI.

00:55:43 SPEAKER_408: I'm probably out of a job in that future, but that's fine.

00:55:46 SPEAKER_408: But even today,

00:55:50 SPEAKER_408: there there there is that on-demand technology that's in place that that allows you know through through sort of a backend system allows allows these vehicles that are in place to be optimized and integrated with

00:55:59 SPEAKER_408: a fixed route connection.

00:56:03 SPEAKER_408: So ensuring that these on-demand system that's in place has visibility of the fixed route service in real time when those vehicles are are are are connecting to each stop will allow potentially allow that on-demand

00:56:16 SPEAKER_408: service to connect to that fixed route and complete your trip.

00:56:20 SPEAKER_408: So there is some of that that's in place already, and that's something that we want to utilize either through some of the existing on-demand providers. or or specialized service providers, and place that, for example,

00:56:30 SPEAKER_408: Smart currently uses, or another on-demand technology provider, such as the one Wellington County uses, or someone completely new that maybe will provide that integrated solution.

00:56:39 SPEAKER_408: But that's something that we are looking at, and and what are those other mobility options that we can leverage as well?

00:56:48 SPEAKER_408: So individuals see all potential options that they have available, and so that's progressing.

00:56:52 SPEAKER_408: It's continuing to grow.

00:56:54 SPEAKER_408: There's obviously some limitations, but keeps moving forward and progressing.

00:56:59 SPEAKER_408: Thank you, thank you, Warden, again.

00:57:01 SPEAKER_408: Yeah, because I look at your core routes as dependable, on time, and people can then bank on they know that you know it's going to it's going to stop in Markdale at two o'clock,

00:57:14 SPEAKER_408: maybe at eleven o'clock in the morning, but then it's to get there.

00:57:18 SPEAKER_408: And I guess that the system can say, "Well, we're only at fifty percent ridership; the space is not."

00:57:26 SPEAKER_408: Then you can do your other rideshares or whatever to know that you've got space, right?

00:57:34 SPEAKER_408: And obviously, if we're talking to each other, I think that's very important, especially with as time goes on with these, you know, and technology.

00:57:51 SPEAKER_408: Like, you know, ten years ago, Uber was like, "Well, you phone Uber; it's there, right?"

00:57:58 SPEAKER_408: If if we have that service, right?

00:58:02 SPEAKER_408: But the thing is, is it's it's it's it's looking at those efficiencies and the ability to do it.

00:58:12 SPEAKER_408: So I'm happy to hear what you're saying.

00:58:15 SPEAKER_408: Okay.

00:58:16 SPEAKER_408: Any other comments on that?

00:58:17 SPEAKER_408: Oh, Councilor Mackey.

00:58:18 SPEAKER_408: Thank you, Warden.

00:58:18 SPEAKER_408: Good morning, Dennis.

00:58:19 SPEAKER_408: Thank you very much for the presentation.

00:58:23 SPEAKER_408: Certainly, a lot of information.

00:58:24 SPEAKER_408: You talked to.

00:58:25 SPEAKER_408: You you talked about point to point service and RideWell in coordination with Uber, trying to coordinate that through the four four counties.

00:58:38 SPEAKER_408: Can you tell me what the barriers are for Uber being more readily available throughout the four counties, and also the Wellington experience with RideWell, as far as a fare structure,

00:58:55 SPEAKER_408: how much money Wellington is putting into that system?

00:58:58 SPEAKER_408: Because the dollars and cents are going to be, you know, what drives this at the end of the day.

00:59:05 SPEAKER_408: So, thank you for those my question.

00:59:08 SPEAKER_408: Through your Worship, thank you for that question.

00:59:11 SPEAKER_408: So, you know, in terms of that that sort of level or the barriers to sort of getting these ride sharing companies in place,

00:59:21 SPEAKER_408: obviously there's there's a couple of different barriers that need to be addressed.

00:59:29 SPEAKER_408: One is more of a bylaw legislation.

00:59:32 SPEAKER_408: Bylaw legislative barrier to make sure that the the market is open to allowing rideshare and taxis within communities.

00:59:40 SPEAKER_408: So it's something we haven't looked at quite yet,

00:59:44 SPEAKER_408: but it's on our agenda to look at to see if there are any barriers in place within the the four counties to allow these services to to open up into the market.

00:59:54 SPEAKER_408: The second one is is really around density.

00:59:57 SPEAKER_408: So like Uber and other ridesharing models are are really based on one it's the availability of potential trip requests.

01:00:05 SPEAKER_408: So if there's not a lot of trip requests, drivers who the way they sort of operate are not going to have a lot of potential fares.

01:00:15 SPEAKER_408: They're going to be sitting around because they get paid when they get a ride, and so they may not open up their app and provide that availability.

01:00:25 SPEAKER_408: And second is the availability of drivers.

01:00:28 SPEAKER_408: So typically where these ridesharing companies flourish is where there's a large urban market where they can draw on drivers to to open up.

01:00:38 SPEAKER_408: So even if it's opened up, it will likely only be within some of the larger communities within within across the four counties, and not across all four counties.

01:00:51 Brian Milne: And even in Wellington County, place if you're north of Fergus or Laura, the chances of you getting an Uber are limited just because there isn't that density there.

01:01:07 Brian Milne: So when we're looking at something like this opening up, it's not going to be opened up across universally across all four counties.

01:01:15 Brian Milne: Some places it just doesn't make sense from a market perspective, but where it does make sense, let's take advantage of it.

01:14:17 Brian Milne: Let's leverage it.

01:14:20 Brian Milne: In terms of that integration that's currently in place, there's just an agreement with the existing on-demand service provider that just allows those rides to be visible on the app.

01:14:34 Brian Milne: And so again, it's just providing options where it is available.

01:14:42 Brian Milne: The county doesn't fund.

01:15:04 SPEAKER_408: It's just if you want to take our on-demand service, which we partially subsidize the fare, you can take it.

01:15:13 SPEAKER_408: But if you need to travel now and one of our services is not available, and you're willing to pay an extra five dollars or whatever it is for an Uber service,

01:15:15 SPEAKER_433: you have an option available for.

01:15:22 Paul Mcqueen: So it's just really about opening up options where we can make these private sector opportunities available.

01:15:28 Paul Mcqueen: Okay, thank you, Councillor Eccles.

01:15:50 Paul Mcqueen: Throughout your presentation over here, throughout the presentation, and I noticed you were using mobility and transit kind of into a mobility service.

01:16:00 Paul Mcqueen: Is considerably different than a transit service.

01:16:01 Paul Mcqueen: What do you see as the greatest risks on trying to integrate a mobility service into a transit service?

01:16:03 Paul Mcqueen: Your Worship, thank you for that question.

01:16:04 Paul Mcqueen: Yeah, my apology when I use the term mobility, I talk of it just about mobility options, and there's several ways to provide those options.

01:16:06 Paul Mcqueen: Public transit being one, specialized transit, community transportation.

01:16:08 Paul Mcqueen: But I get where you're going with that question, and I appreciate it.

01:16:28 Paul Mcqueen: The risks of integration are obviously you know, are we going to potentially result in you know, trip denials for persons with disabilities because we're now opening up the eligibility to all passengers,

01:16:38 Paul Mcqueen: and there's ways that we can, you know, ensure that we're not doing that.

01:16:40 Paul Mcqueen: We're taking advantage of excess capacity while protecting those rides for individuals with disabilities.

01:16:53 Paul Mcqueen: And you know, example could be, you know, opening up, allowing you know, eligible passengers to book a ride, you know, up to you know, two weeks in advance,

01:17:03 Paul Mcqueen: but for other passengers who don't have a disability, maybe it's three days in advance, and that's when it opens up to everybody else.

01:17:05 Paul Mcqueen: So that allows us to make sure that priority is there for individuals with disabilities.

01:17:07 Paul Mcqueen: Also through the eligibility criteria, if there's certain passengers that, you know, need very direct service, can't deviate that much.

01:17:08 Paul Mcqueen: Need to be in a vehicle independently because of the nature of their disability.

01:17:10 Paul Mcqueen: There's certain eligibility criteria that we can identify that says this passenger needs to have more of a direct trip.

01:17:14 Paul Mcqueen: Other passengers were able to stay in the vehicle longer and share a ride.

01:17:18 Paul Mcqueen: We do not have that constraint, so it allows us to take advantage of any excess capacity and that service that's already in place.

01:17:25 Paul Mcqueen: Okay, thank you.

01:17:25 Paul Mcqueen: Any other questions, Mister Greg?

01:17:27 Paul Mcqueen: Thank you.

01:17:35 SPEAKER_408: Just a couple questions.

01:17:39 SPEAKER_408: One of the questions here is preference on type of governance model.

01:17:43 SPEAKER_408: I get maybe the municipal shared service agreements, the one that jumps out.

01:17:48 SPEAKER_408: Maybe the only question being downstream, if there was a partner that decided that it was going to reduce their budget contribution.

01:17:59 SPEAKER_408: Is there one of the governance models that handles such an instance, perhaps in three or four years, better than the other?

01:18:08 SPEAKER_408: Through your Worship, I think the commission type structure is probably the one that handles that the best.

01:18:19 SPEAKER_408: And every sort of governance model, there needs to be an agreement on some basic parameters such as fare structure, policies and procedures around service branding, things like that.

01:18:27 SPEAKER_408: Where services cross municipal boundaries, again, probably some level agreement that takes that place ahead of time.

01:18:36 SPEAKER_408: But with the opportunity for certain partners to either reduce or increase their level, they reduce or increase their level of service as that makes sense for their municipality.

01:18:47 SPEAKER_408: So it's mainly based on that level of service as opposed to how the services operated or structured.

01:18:55 SPEAKER_408: And this is where you know some of the examples that we showed in here, where we sort of had a corridor that you know the ghost service, for example, between Owen Sound and Guelph.

01:19:19 Paul Mcqueen: Well, we think there's a higher demand between Fergus, Alora, and Guelph, and that would supplement, right?

01:19:24 Paul Mcqueen: So one of the Wellington County could say, well, we want to pay for additional service because we think that there's more demand on this very long corridor that it isn't the service.

01:19:33 Paul Mcqueen: So those are some of the decisions that can be made through that sort of governance approach,

01:19:39 Paul Mcqueen: as long as there's some basic agreements in place about what a shared service looks like and what that minimum level of service is.

01:19:46 Paul Mcqueen: Okay, thank you for that.

01:19:48 Paul Mcqueen: When I went through the report at first, first day, one thing that jumps out at me is we are.

01:19:56 Paul Mcqueen: If you take a look at that four percent that the survey respondents noted would be using transit daily, out of almost thirty-eight hundred survey respondents, that's about one hundred and fifty,

01:20:13 Scott Mackey: one hundred and fifty-five people.

01:20:16 Scott Mackey: So, what we're probably looking at today is a service that is not responsive, responding to demand, rather a service that is predicated upon growth.

01:20:28 Scott Mackey: So, what moving forward are the measurables in terms of cost recovery, financial reporting that would be coming back to councils to be able to measure the success of transit as the years go by,

01:20:43 Scott Mackey: because it's Go Buy because it's clearly there's no disputing that it's totally predicated on growth.

01:20:46 Scott Mackey: So we are undertaking a service here that is absolutely necessary to have tremendous growth to make it viable.

01:20:59 SPEAKER_408: We've got funding for four years.

01:21:01 SPEAKER_408: It's noted here improving level of service in high demand or implementing lower demand quarters.

01:21:07 SPEAKER_408: Personally, I rode Ghost, I rode Flex Bus, great services.

01:21:10 SPEAKER_408: Part of the challenge is getting people in the community to be aware of it and buy into the service that's available to them because it can save you money as opposed to driving your own

01:21:23 SPEAKER_408: vehicle.

01:21:23 SPEAKER_408: So there's marketing costs.

01:21:25 SPEAKER_408: There's getting the message out.

01:21:40 SPEAKER_408: Improving level of service in high demand is probably more advantageous in a couple years of getting gas tax revenues better than incurring higher costs overall for the service provision,

01:21:49 SPEAKER_408: and then realizing lesser in gas tax reimbursements, so forth.

01:21:51 SPEAKER_408: Anyway, just your comments on the type of financial reporting that would come back, and monitoring the growth that would be needed for the service.

01:21:53 SPEAKER_408: Your Worship, thank you for that question.

01:21:55 SPEAKER_408: It's part of our scope is to look at developing some KPIs that would be sort of suitable for monitoring.

01:22:03 SPEAKER_408: We haven't got to that point yet in the study,

01:22:09 SPEAKER_408: but you know we would look at things like you know what's the overall cost recovery ratio and how does it compare to sort of other services like that operating similar geographies.

01:22:21 SPEAKER_408: You know, we can look at things like boarding per capita.

01:22:25 SPEAKER_408: So based on the ridership that looks at that's not just ridership at the static number, but relative to the population growth.

01:22:41 SPEAKER_408: Let's see, if that continues to grow, we can look at things like the utilization of the service, so boardings per hour of service that provides, so how well utilizes that corridor.

01:22:51 SPEAKER_408: And there's even opportunities to sort of, you know, take surveys of residents to see sort of how often that they use it and how it sort of impacts their lives.

01:22:57 SPEAKER_408: So there's a couple of different financial KPIs and productivity KPIs that we can look at, but also KPIs in terms of you know what percentage of the community had benefit from the service as well.

01:23:11 SPEAKER_408: So they're more level of service or you know benefit KPIs to the community as well.

01:23:16 SPEAKER_408: What what percentage of vulnerable populations are within a close proximity to the service as well?

01:23:21 SPEAKER_408: So those are other KPIs that we can look at.

01:23:40 Kevin Eccles: And my last question is, how is Smart Transit, which is always Smart Transit, which is a service existing right now, protected potentially in four or five years, or down the road,

01:23:52 Kevin Eccles: if there were to be significant changes to this program, where Smart is still able to exist, I guess, and not be caught up with reductions in this new service provision.

01:24:19 SPEAKER_408: I'm just wondering, like, have you considered that?

01:24:21 SPEAKER_408: Like, what could the future of SMART look like?

01:24:26 SPEAKER_408: Is it still there, or is it more susceptible down the road?

01:24:31 SPEAKER_408: Through your worship, it is something that we're looking at, and one of our we have another firm that's working with us that recently met with SMART and is looking at their mandates.

01:24:45 SPEAKER_408: That's part of that governance review that we're looking at, but you know we're not looking to replace SMART with the service.

01:25:10 SPEAKER_408: SMART has a core mandate, including a mandate that has nothing to do with the service, like including bringing individuals to the City of Toronto for medical appointments and things like that.

01:25:19 SPEAKER_408: That doesn't change under this proposal.

01:25:20 SPEAKER_408: It's about better utilizing or adding to SMART, better utilizing any existing service hours that they have where they're not transporting passengers by opening up that eligibility, increasing the amount of service that they provide.

01:25:24 SPEAKER_408: So you know, if you know five years down the road, this partnership, for example, doesn't work out,

01:25:49 SPEAKER_408: they still have that core mandate available for them and that funding that has been provided to provide the service that they're currently providing.

01:25:59 SPEAKER_408: Okay.

01:25:59 SPEAKER_408: Any further questions?

01:26:00 SPEAKER_408: Councillor Dubreun.

01:26:00 SPEAKER_408: Thank you, Deputy Warden, and thank you for the presentation.

01:26:02 SPEAKER_408: Most of my questions have been answered from the presentation by you, elaborating on things.

01:26:04 SPEAKER_408: And the questions around the table, I too had the question about what happens if a partner decides to exit.

01:26:06 SPEAKER_408: I know that in the SMART model, you give a year's notice that you have intention to exit the program.

01:26:18 Scott Greig: I also know that the per capita cost that we invest, the municipal levy to support SMART, is pretty significant.

01:26:27 Scott Greig: So, as we expand the opportunity to those who don't need specialized service, could bring those costs down.

01:26:37 Scott Greig: Is the intent to explore a phased-in approach?

01:26:40 Scott Greig: I believe you touched on that.

01:26:42 Scott Greig: You touched on that briefly, because I think if we were to look at the SMART model, integrate with SMART and the private sector to handle some of those in-between connections,

01:26:58 SPEAKER_408: we could model an introductory phase and then upscale as the funding and the capacity warranted or supported it, and vice versa.

01:27:11 SPEAKER_408: The ability to this, this is, we're not getting the ridership, we've got the deadhead kilometers as you mentioned, will that be further explored as an option?

01:27:24 SPEAKER_408: Through your worship, certainly phasing is something that we're going to be looking at.

01:27:29 SPEAKER_408: So you know, I had a whole list of corridors out there, and you know, this is our dream set of corridors, not necessarily dreams of corridors,

01:27:38 SPEAKER_408: not necessarily something that's going to be implemented in reality.

01:27:42 SPEAKER_408: And one of the benefits of like SMART or on-demand is, you know, if let's say we start with two or three of those corridors, right, and then we start to monitor, you know,

01:27:54 SPEAKER_408: through SMART or on-demand what the travel patterns are, and we start to say, well, hold on, we're spending a lot of money making this connection because it's constantly being requested,

01:28:05 SPEAKER_408: and would it be more cost-effective to switch that to a fixed-route intercommunity corridor that's more reliable and travels at the same time every day rather than having vehicles around trying to service that travel demand.

01:28:21 Scott Greig: So that could be also part of that phased approach,

01:28:24 Scott Greig: which you know we have identified KPIs of when to make that transition because it's more cost-effective to switch to an intercommunity corridor than to have an on-demand.

01:28:39 Scott Greig: Likewise, if we have an intercommunity corridor that just isn't meeting that ridership potential,

01:28:44 Scott Greig: we could phase that back into a more on-demand type service to provide that connectivity to other corridors that are seeing that ridership kind of growth.

01:29:01 Scott Greig: So this is not a, you know, we will have a plan with some post-phasing, but whoever is going to be operating the service should be approved.

01:29:13 Scott Greig: This is going to be sort of a work in progress, right?

01:29:19 Scott Greig: As it usually takes a couple of years for people to change their travel patterns and get used to a service, but then we monitor and look at the data, see how it's being used,

01:29:36 Scott Greig: and we're flexible, and how we implement it.

01:29:39 Scott Greig: So yes, there will be that phasing.

01:29:41 Scott Greig: Thanks.

01:29:41 Scott Greig: Thank you for that.

01:29:42 Scott Greig: And I wanted just to touch on the private sector, the on-demand, the Ubers, the ride-shares, the we're seeing recently, the pop-up shuttle services to the airport.

01:29:52 Scott Greig: People, you know, being entrepreneurial and providing, creating a service for hire.

01:29:57 Scott Greig: What are the parameters of creating a regulation to invite those individuals and others who see the opportunity to get into a taxi or Uber?

01:30:10 Scott Greig: Or I'm sure there's a certain level of insurance and vulnerable sector check or criminal record check.

01:30:17 Scott Greig: What are those criteria?

01:30:19 SPEAKER_408: Or we, I'm sure we'll explore that because I think that as we roll something out, there will be others who see the opportunity.

01:30:29 SPEAKER_408: To, hey, I could do that, and so will that be explored further?

01:30:32 SPEAKER_408: Through your worship, certainly something that's sort of the intent of what to explore, right?

01:30:37 SPEAKER_408: And importantly, I don't have all the answers for you in terms of what is required.

01:30:44 SPEAKER_408: But you know something that we'll be exploring.

01:30:47 SPEAKER_408: But really, it's just about opening up the market and allowing the opportunity to come in.

01:30:54 SPEAKER_408: I can't force somebody to come in and provide the service.

01:30:57 SPEAKER_408: I just need to make it attractive to come in.

01:31:00 SPEAKER_408: And the way sort of the one way to look at it is you're not competition.

01:31:06 SPEAKER_408: You're complement, right?

01:31:07 SPEAKER_408: So do I need to invest as much of this into this if the private sector is doing it for me?

01:31:12 SPEAKER_408: They've established a business, so that's why we're looking at if Lyft Bus is already providing a service, can I better utilize that service rather than duplicate it, right?

01:31:23 SPEAKER_408: If Uber says I want to come to town, great.

01:31:29 SPEAKER_408: How do we take advantage of that, you know, as opposed to duplicate it, right?

01:31:35 SPEAKER_408: So, it's not going to happen everywhere across all four counties, but where it does, if we can open up that market and take advantage of it, view it as complementary,

01:31:53 Scott Greig: especially in an environment where it's very difficult to provide sustainable transportation service, but we know the need is there.

01:32:00 Scott Greig: So, let's leverage that private sector contribution.

01:32:06 Scott Greig: Okay, thank you, Mr. Nielsen.

01:32:09 Scott Greig: Thank you very much, Deputy Board Member.

01:32:14 Scott Greig: I don't know if my question is much of a comment.

01:32:34 SPEAKER_408: When looking at the next steps structure, you know, develop the plan, conduct the fare structure analysis, and calculate the financial plan, and then you know,

01:32:44 SPEAKER_408: question four here is what are the measures of success that can place to mitigate the risk.

01:32:46 SPEAKER_408: I think the biggest challenge that we've seen with the previous service that Great Counties Limited now is because once that funding model cut off,

01:32:48 SPEAKER_408: we saw that the fare structure versus the cost of the county was just so disproportionate.

01:32:52 SPEAKER_408: It was hard to justify the cost, and I think there's a lot of work that needs to be done to continue moving this project forward.

01:33:03 SPEAKER_408: Which there is a value in seeing and being done.

01:33:08 SPEAKER_408: You kind of just said it there at the end of your last statement, which was, you know, the challenge of knowing the need exists,

01:33:19 SPEAKER_408: but to try to actually make it work is a challenge because of financial cost.

01:33:25 SPEAKER_408: That'll be the biggest, I think,

01:33:28 SPEAKER_408: motivation or support for future success is coming to this county and the four counties collectively to see what is the ride fare that is justifiable and affordable for the people we want to ride,

01:33:47 Kevin Eccles: which we know we're looking at target demographic that they have a need that they can't afford their own private rides,

01:33:55 Kevin Eccles: but also not making it so burdensome on the county that becomes disproportionately logical or feasible to continue the service.

01:34:17 Kevin Eccles: So it's that financial plan that I need to see coming forward and how accurate is it going to be because that becomes the crux of it and it is a challenge.

01:34:26 Kevin Eccles: I appreciate the idea trying to integrate that ability for outside agencies connecting into the service we're trying to provide because it is the point-to-point of somebody who lives on rural road X trying to connect

01:34:37 Kevin Eccles: to where the actual shuttle lines are,

01:34:41 Kevin Eccles: and that becomes the greatest challenge.

01:34:45 Kevin Eccles: So I am looking forward to seeing more detail come forward, but it's that financial plan.

01:35:20 SPEAKER_408: I think that'll have the biggest crux of success or to mitigate the risk of losing the funding from the mountains.

01:35:29 SPEAKER_408: Okay, Councillor Hope.

01:35:30 SPEAKER_408: Yes, thank you.

01:35:31 SPEAKER_408: Thank you for the presentation, and I know it's early days, and I recognize the need for the financial plan and many, many more details.

01:35:32 SPEAKER_408: Public engagement is a big issue at the Town of the Blue Mountains.

01:35:34 SPEAKER_408: So you, I think you've set aside some time to come and do some public engagement.

01:35:36 SPEAKER_408: But what, in your mind, does that look like, in terms of the consultation that you plan to do at this point?

01:35:38 SPEAKER_408: Thank you.

01:35:38 SPEAKER_408: Okay.

01:35:39 SPEAKER_408: Perfect.

01:35:39 SPEAKER_408: Okay.

01:35:55 SPEAKER_408: Through your Worship, we've already conducted the majority of our engagement so far to sort of better understand the need for the service and what that's going to look like.

01:36:04 SPEAKER_408: Once we develop the plan, we're still going to sort of try to figure out how we want to go back to the public and sort of engage them.

01:36:06 SPEAKER_408: So we're still kind of working that through a little bit.

01:36:08 SPEAKER_408: So I can have more detail for you a little later.

01:36:10 SPEAKER_408: Any further questions?

01:36:10 SPEAKER_408: Okay.

01:36:10 SPEAKER_408: Oh, Councillor Mackey, go ahead, please.

01:36:12 SPEAKER_408: Thank you, Mister Warden.

01:36:12 SPEAKER_408: Dennis, you talked about gas tax funding.

01:36:14 SPEAKER_408: Soggy Mobility is highly dependent on gas tax funding.

01:36:17 SPEAKER_408: In an integrated system, how would that gas tax still be applicable only to SMART and not to the overall system, I guess?

01:36:27 SPEAKER_408: Very Worship.

01:36:27 SPEAKER_408: Yeah, so you're right.

01:36:29 SPEAKER_408: So Soggy Mobility currently receives gas tax funding, and so there's the potential of unused or sort of gas tax that we're currently not collecting.

01:36:37 SPEAKER_408: So gas tax is based on sort of two formulas.

01:36:40 SPEAKER_408: One is population.

01:36:41 SPEAKER_408: One is ridership.

01:36:42 SPEAKER_408: So there's a potential to increase that gas tax if we start to include municipalities that currently don't collect gas tax right now across all four counties, right?

01:36:51 SPEAKER_408: Not just within Grey.

01:36:54 SPEAKER_408: So if, for example, yeah.

01:37:00 Kevin Eccles: So we can include that population that's not currently collecting.

01:37:05 Kevin Eccles: The second one would be as ridership grows.

01:37:09 Kevin Eccles: That's also a factor in terms of how gas tax funding is allocated.

01:37:18 Kevin Eccles: The third factor is in terms of the allocation and your municipal spend.

01:37:27 Kevin Eccles: So, one of the things we're trying to figure out is if we're getting the full allocation of gas tax funding that's available to us based on the amount of municipal contribution that's currently coming in,

01:37:51 Kevin Eccles: and if there's unused portions that we can gather by consolidating by increasing the municipal spend across all four counties, then that's something that we would do.

01:38:05 Kevin Eccles: And then it's a matter of figuring out a formula that says how do we distribute that gas tax funding to ensure that some of it continues to go to SMART,

01:38:21 SPEAKER_408: but also some of it continues to start to fund some of this intercommunity service that we've identified.

01:38:27 SPEAKER_408: So it will sort of all be consolidated at the end of the day, supporting the certain service plan.

01:38:33 SPEAKER_408: Okay.

01:38:33 SPEAKER_408: Now, Councillor Matrosovs.

01:38:34 SPEAKER_408: Just a very quick one.

01:38:36 SPEAKER_408: Can you provide us in the future the consensus, or not consensus, but the number of people that don't have cars?

01:38:42 SPEAKER_408: I think everyone here drove here today.

01:38:44 SPEAKER_408: But is there a certain segment, twenty percent, ten percent?

01:38:49 SPEAKER_408: Is there something that you can get that data and where that growth data will be?

01:38:54 SPEAKER_408: Because most cases, if you have a car or two cars, you're probably not going to use transit.

01:39:02 SPEAKER_408: Most cases, unless you got kids or seniors or whatever.

01:39:04 SPEAKER_408: Can you provide that data, or do you have that data?

01:39:09 SPEAKER_408: Through your Worship, I don't have it right now.

01:39:11 SPEAKER_408: There may be if I don't let me look into that a little bit more detail.

01:39:17 SPEAKER_408: I can get that data.

01:39:41 Dane Nielsen: I can get things like you know what percentage of the population is over a certain age or under certain age, where logically they wouldn't have a car, income brackets, things like that,

01:39:51 Dane Nielsen: that will provide us a better sense of how many people have vehicles in their household.

01:39:53 Dane Nielsen: Okay.

01:39:53 Dane Nielsen: Right.

01:39:53 Dane Nielsen: Not seeing any further hands.

01:39:54 Dane Nielsen: I'll call the question.

01:39:55 Dane Nielsen: Who's received the report?

01:39:56 Dane Nielsen: All those in favor.

01:39:56 Dane Nielsen: That is carried.

01:39:57 Dane Nielsen: Thank you very much, Mr. Carr.

01:39:58 Dane Nielsen: Thank you, Stephanie.

01:39:58 Dane Nielsen: Good report.

01:39:59 Dane Nielsen: Lots of discussion.

01:39:59 Dane Nielsen: We look forward to the future.

01:40:00 Dane Nielsen: Thank you.

01:40:01 Dane Nielsen: Okay.

01:40:01 Dane Nielsen: Moving on.

01:40:01 Dane Nielsen: It is a report here regarding the Ceylon Operations Depot Design Build RFP, and Sean is here to give us that report.

01:40:05 Dane Nielsen: Would someone care to move to receive that part?

01:40:09 Dane Nielsen: You receive that part, Councillor Eccles, Councillor Pringle, Sean.

01:40:12 Dane Nielsen: The floor is yours, sir.

01:40:14 Dane Nielsen: Good morning, Deputy Warden and members, Council.

01:40:24 Dane Nielsen: Thank you for the opportunity to present today regarding the award of contract for the Ceylon Depot Design Build project, documented in Report TRCW 14-26.

01:40:34 Dane Nielsen: So to recap and to provide some background on where we're at with this project,

01:40:36 Dane Nielsen: Transportation Services purchased a 39.5 acre property at the intersection of Grey Road 4 and Grey Road 14 in April of 2025.

01:40:56 Dane Nielsen: Since that time we commissioned multiple studies and reports, including a geotechnical study, a stage one and two archaeological assessment, a stormwater management brief, a topographic survey, and conceptual engineering designs.

01:41:05 Dane Nielsen: So the purpose of today's report is straightforward: to show the results of RFP TS 15-26 and to seek Council's approval to award the contract for the design build of the new Ceylon Public Works Depot.

01:41:07 Dane Nielsen: As noted in the report, this work was provided for in the budget and plan,

01:41:12 Dane Nielsen: and is necessary to address the long-term operational capacity of Patrol D. Patrol D currently operates out of a leased building in Flesherton and an owned building in Dundalk,

01:41:29 Dane Nielsen: and this project represents a long-term purpose-built solution.

01:41:42 Dane Nielsen: So the RFP was issued on January 16th, 2026, and closed on February 19th, 2026.

01:41:52 Dane Nielsen: Eight general contractors were pre-qualified, and five of those submitted proposals.

01:41:53 Dane Nielsen: Proposals were evaluated using criteria outlined in the RFP, so experience and qualifications 20%, methodology and technical approach 40%, sustainability and innovation 10%, and price 30%.

01:41:55 SPEAKER_410: The respondents were required to achieve a minimum technical score of 50 out of 70 to proceed to the pricing.

01:42:01 SPEAKER_407: One submission did not meet this threshold.

01:42:03 SPEAKER_407: Following the evaluation, Dom Construction Limited was ranked highest overall.

01:42:07 SPEAKER_407: So staff are recommending that Council award the contract to Dom Construction Limited for a total amount of seven million five hundred eight thousand, excluding HST,

01:42:18 SPEAKER_407: and this includes the design build of a new public works operations depot and a standalone winter material storage building.

01:42:25 Olivia Legate: The design also incorporates room to allow the depot to function as a secondary backup emergency operations center or EOC.

01:42:42 SPEAKER_408: As this report notes, Grey County currently has no backup facilities from which a secondary or alternate EOC could be run.

01:42:48 SPEAKER_408: So this addition significantly strengthens the County's emergency preparedness.

01:42:51 SPEAKER_408: So the total projected cost after the HST rebate is nine million forty-one thousand six hundred and fifty-four dollars.

01:42:57 SPEAKER_408: This includes a construction contingency of 10%, a utility allowance, an IT allowance, and all associated permit fees.

01:43:07 Scott Mackey: The project is currently over budget by one million two hundred eighty-one thousand three hundred fifty-four dollars, or 16.5%.

01:43:17 Scott Mackey: After applying additional eligible development charges funding, the remaining deficit is one million ninety-seven thousand one hundred eighty-nine dollars.

01:43:25 Scott Mackey: Staff recommend funding this deficit in the following order: first, through any 2026 Transportation Services capital construction surplus.

01:43:43 SPEAKER_408: Currently, we're sitting at around four hundred thousand with two bridge rehabilitations, two culvert replacements, and one road reconstruction left to tender in 2026.

01:43:54 SPEAKER_408: Secondly, from the transportation domes and depots reserve, which has a projected year-end balance of nine hundred seventy-eight thousand ninety dollars, and thirdly, from the transportation services general reserve,

01:44:07 SPEAKER_408: which has a projected ending end of year balance of five million two hundred sixty-two thousand four hundred three dollars.

01:44:19 SPEAKER_408: The RFP required net zero ready submissions supporting the county's climate change action plan targets.

01:44:25 SPEAKER_408: Net zero ready buildings are highly energy efficient structures built to the same strict standards as net zero homes, so often eighty percent more efficient than code minimums,

01:44:35 SPEAKER_408: but without the installed renewable energy systems like solar panels.

01:44:40 SPEAKER_408: They feature superior insulation, high performance windows, airtight construction, and are designed to allow easy future installation of renewable energy options.

01:44:49 SPEAKER_408: So the recommendation to council staff respectfully recommend that council receive the report TRCW fourteen twenty six, 14-26, award RFP TS 15-26 to Dom Construction Limited.

01:44:58 SPEAKER_408: Approve the proposed funding strategy for the project deficit, and authorize staff to proceed prior to council approval under Section 26B of the procedural bylaw.

01:45:10 SPEAKER_408: So, in closing, this project represents a major step forward in ensuring the long-term operational capacity for Patrol D, improving our emergency readiness, and supporting economic growth and prosperity of Grey County.

01:45:22 Paul Mcqueen: I'm happy to answer any questions that Council may have.

01:45:26 Paul Mcqueen: Thank you, Sean.

01:45:28 Paul Mcqueen: Are there any questions from Council?

01:45:33 Paul Mcqueen: Councillor Keaveney, please.

01:45:35 Paul Mcqueen: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Warden, and Sean.

01:45:37 Paul Mcqueen: I'm just wondering, can you suggest?

01:45:43 Paul Mcqueen: Then, will this construction meet green building standards that we've heard about?

01:45:52 Paul Mcqueen: From our climate change manager—is that where you're headed in terms of the construction that you are undertaking?

01:45:54 Paul Mcqueen: Yes, thank you.

01:45:55 Paul Mcqueen: That's a short answer.

01:45:55 Paul Mcqueen: Have you got more, Sean?

01:45:56 Paul Mcqueen: Go ahead.

01:45:57 SPEAKER_408: Sure.

01:45:57 SPEAKER_408: Just to elaborate, yes, we have been in communication with our climate change team, and they've proposed this strategy, including putting in our fee for a net zero ready building design without the renewable energy options,

01:46:07 SPEAKER_408: which would vastly inflate the price at the current time.

01:46:09 SPEAKER_408: But it allows for that later retrofit of those options.

01:46:12 SPEAKER_408: And they've also recommended that we participate in the Embraces Savings by Design program.

01:46:17 SPEAKER_408: So, for the purposes of this RFP, and for consistency in bidding, we've asked all the design-build teams to bid as if they're bidding on a propane energy source, which is why we.

01:46:55 Brian Milne: And then later on, they will participate in the Savings by Design program through Enbridge, which will help inform what energy source that we use ultimately.

01:47:05 Olivia Legate: Which is also why we carry the utility allowance that, in case there's any extra funding that's necessary, should propane not be the decided energy source,

01:47:06 Olivia Legate: then we'll have some wiggle room there to work with another upgrade potentially.

01:47:13 Kevin Mcnab: Okay, thank you.

01:47:14 Kevin Mcnab: Anyone else, Councillor Greg, please.

01:47:15 Kevin Mcnab: Two questions.

01:47:17 Kevin Mcnab: First question: If you go back to that one slide, there's a stormwater management pond, with the tender being over budget like it is.

01:47:30 Kevin Mcnab: Is there any contemplation for the requirement for that stormwater management pond?

01:47:35 Kevin Mcnab: Noting that this is in the middle of agricultural land; it's not a couple blocks over here outside of a Walmart in an urban setting.

01:47:45 Kevin Mcnab: Many times we go past Grey Roots, and I wonder—you know—at what point was that parking lot overconstructed?

01:47:54 Kevin Mcnab: Just and the cost then for a stormwater management pond was borne by the taxpayer.

01:48:05 Kevin Mcnab: So, just first question is on the actual requirements the stormwater management pond—is that something that can be rescoped as you're working with the contractor?

01:48:14 Kevin Mcnab: So it's a great question.

01:48:17 Kevin Mcnab: Again, this structure doesn't RFP, and any design drawings were conceptual design drawings.

01:48:21 Kevin Mcnab: Our team internally we decided that we would include what in our Pearson Engineering drawings, to include a stormwater management pond as a best practice.

01:48:34 Kevin Mcnab: So the property it is agricultural, as you noted.

01:48:43 Kevin Mcnab: So in terms of you know reducing peak volume flows and that sort of thing, we didn't see it as a totally crucial design element in that respect.

01:49:00 Kevin Mcnab: But it is bordering a significant.

01:49:03 Kevin Mcnab: I shouldn't say significant.

01:49:06 Kevin Mcnab: It is bordering a wetland, and we just felt that that was the best practice to limit the amount of contaminants that would potentially be running into it in wetland.

01:49:20 Kevin Mcnab: Okay, you're the professional.

01:49:21 Kevin Mcnab: I don't know if a bio swale would have been cheaper or less expensive or contemplated, but that's the first question.

01:49:34 Kevin Mcnab: Part question two is: Do we?

01:49:36 Kevin Mcnab: Do you have an approximate cost on making on what it is to make it net zero ready?

01:49:43 Kevin Mcnab: Because I can see the difference.

01:49:46 Kevin Mcnab: I realize the difference between making an apartment building net zero ready, or certain other buildings.

01:49:53 Kevin Mcnab: But this has ten bays that largely may be open at different times, letting large equipment in.

01:50:00 Kevin Mcnab: So I think I see a difference between a shop like this and the extra cost of making it net zero ready.

01:50:14 Kevin Mcnab: Unless you're speaking more to like just the office component of it, but is this throughout the whole building?

01:50:24 Kevin Mcnab: And if it is, what kind of extra cost is born just in undertaking that design?

01:50:36 Kevin Mcnab: Yep, and through the Deputy Warden.

01:50:38 Kevin Mcnab: So yes, it is incorporated throughout the design of the entire building.

01:50:45 Kevin Mcnab: So the RFP required that they all be net zero ready submissions.

01:50:52 Kevin Mcnab: This means that the building must meet modern energy efficiency standards, so they weren't considered as extras.

01:51:05 Kevin Mcnab: For example, they're and they're part of the climate commitments and to reduce our long-term operating costs.

01:51:13 Kevin Mcnab: So, in terms of the bid table, any sort of commitments or design elements that were specifically for net zero ready, they weren't considered as a separate line item, like as an option.

01:51:29 Kevin Mcnab: So they're just included in our overall design cost for the building.

01:51:33 Kevin Mcnab: And so we didn't have separate line items for if you went with the insulation with an R value of R fifteen, for example,

01:51:48 Kevin Mcnab: it costs this versus an R value of R twenty and costs this.

01:51:52 Kevin Mcnab: So it's just the structure of the RFP process kind of would limit us in that regard.

01:52:01 Kevin Mcnab: Hopefully that answers your question.

01:52:04 Kevin Mcnab: All right.

01:52:06 Kevin Mcnab: For now, anyway, anyone else have any questions?

01:52:13 Kevin Mcnab: Councillor McQueen, go ahead, please.

01:52:16 Kevin Mcnab: Okay.

01:52:17 Kevin Mcnab: Thank you, Deputy Warden, and yeah, I'm happy to see us moving forward for sure.

01:52:27 Kevin Mcnab: Gives us a little bit more security about our equipment in the future.

01:52:35 Kevin Mcnab: The question is, it's 39.5 acre property, and we purchased it over a year ago.

01:52:43 Kevin Mcnab: I guess it's sort of two questions: What's the plan with the remaining property?

01:52:50 Kevin Mcnab: Because the one time we talked about severing off the cluster of buildings to recoup it, we got a deficit.

01:52:59 Brian Milne: You know, is that an option to get some more money back?

01:53:05 SPEAKER_415: Because obviously, I think that was talked about when we purchased it as well.

01:53:12 SPEAKER_415: Through the Deputy Warden, so it is still on the table.

01:53:16 SPEAKER_415: It's not reflected in our funding model here.

01:53:20 SPEAKER_415: Just for the fact that we're not quite there yet.

01:53:27 SPEAKER_417: So some of the considerations for the we have to have consideration for the design of the roundabout at Grey Road Four and Grey Road Fourteen to allow us to know what we'll be able to

01:53:49 Kevin Mcnab: sever.

01:53:50 Kevin Mcnab: We also have some considerations for having space for recycled asphalt, for example.

01:53:56 Kevin Mcnab: Potentially, you know, utilizing the farm as a demonstration farm as well.

01:54:02 Kevin Mcnab: So all those questions are sort of in the next phase of this project in my mind, but they're still on the table at this point.

01:54:12 Kevin Mcnab: Roundabout, well, yeah.

01:54:14 Kevin Mcnab: Well, I just you know I think I think we had the same conversation.

01:54:21 Kevin Mcnab: I heard it your shot here about roundabout there.

01:54:23 Kevin Mcnab: Yeah, I mean.

01:54:24 Kevin Mcnab: Yeah, that makes sense.

01:54:26 Kevin Mcnab: But I just, you know, if there are surplus lands that could be utilized by somebody else and purchased, and it's just always something that did talk about.

01:54:38 Kevin Mcnab: And you know, if it's something we don't need, there's a good heritage wine there, right?

01:54:49 Scott Greig: All that stuff, right?

01:54:50 Scott Greig: So, okay, well, that's that's good to hear that it's still there's still things in the book because if there's ways to recoup some of that deficit,

01:55:04 Scott Greig: then you want to keep an eye on that as well.

01:55:09 Scott Greig: Okay.

01:55:10 Scott Greig: Any further?

01:55:10 Scott Greig: Oh, Councillor DeBrine, you had a question.

01:55:12 Scott Greig: Go ahead, please.

01:55:13 Scott Greig: Thank you, Deputy Warden.

01:55:14 Scott Greig: I was wanting to just expand on the net zero.

01:55:19 Scott Greig: Is, if it was driving much of the over budget situation, and whether or not there's an opportunity to reduce that, obviously, you know,

01:55:27 Scott Greig: we're hoping that we're going to come in under budget by four hundred thousand.

01:55:33 Scott Greig: On other projects, but but with everything coming in over budget, or not everything, but you know the the prospect that they could come in over budget, we don't know what's out there.

01:55:54 Kevin Mcnab: I if you had a crystal ball, that'd be wonderful.

01:55:58 Kevin Mcnab: But I'm just wondering how do we address this over budget situation when we know there are other tenders coming down that we're going to need to consider, and how?

01:56:11 Kevin Mcnab: Maybe perhaps my question is, Deputy Warden, perhaps my question is, how confident are you that we'll come in with those under budget situations to help cover this project?

01:56:24 Kevin Mcnab: Because I know that this project is very critical in the grand scheme.

01:56:28 SPEAKER_433: It's one of the dominoes to paramedic services moving out of the Dundalk fire depot into another facility, to because we have the plan to move the depot to this central locations.

01:56:43 SPEAKER_433: Thank you, Sean.

01:56:44 Scott Greig: Thank you for the question.

01:57:03 Scott Greig: So I can speak to our risk management strategies for this project to ensure that that we're getting the best value for the dollar and and that we're not looking at project overages and stuff like

01:57:12 Scott Greig: that.

01:57:13 Scott Greig: In terms of the other capital projects that are left to be tendered,

01:57:14 Scott Greig: I'd really defer to to Pat and to Trevor for their sense on that and how the rest of the projects will will come in this year.

01:57:19 Scott Greig: I do know there's been a mix of some where we actually came in under budget and there's been some that have recently.

01:57:32 Kevin Mcnab: Come in over budget, so that number, that four hundred thousand number, does fluctuate, and and I don't have a crystal ball,

01:57:46 Kevin Mcnab: so I don't know how those projects will come in at the end of the year.

01:57:56 Kevin Mcnab: In terms of our, in terms of where I think a lot of the, the one point two million dollar overage is coming from, is the increase in material costs in twenty twenty six.

01:58:16 Kevin Mcnab: So steel has has gone up in price significantly, and I think that's reflected in the the proposals here that we received, and that's driven, to my understanding, primarily from reduced imports coming into the country,

01:58:25 Kevin Mcnab: and then just construction competition for the construction of the data centers around North America.

01:58:27 Kevin Mcnab: The other thing that I would just notice to,

01:58:28 SPEAKER_433: or I would note and point out is that that one point. two million dollar overage is really attributed to our contingency that we have there of almost eight hundred thousand a ten percent contingency,

01:58:46 Paul Mcqueen: as well as our allowance for the the utilities of five hundred thousand.

01:58:49 Paul Mcqueen: So between those two items, there's potentially some some savings there, but we want to be prudent, prudently prudent and financially responsible responsible in terms of risk.

01:58:59 Paul Mcqueen: So just given that we have like a local contractor on board that we've we've worked with in the past,

01:59:07 Paul Mcqueen: that provides a lot of comfort in terms of a is a ten percent contingency enough to to cover us.

01:59:13 SPEAKER_417: Noting that we're not industry experts in in building designs, I think Pat would probably be okay with me designing and building his birdhouse.

01:59:28 Kevin Mcnab: But probably not like a, you know, multi-million-dollar facility.

01:59:32 Kevin Mcnab: So, in terms of the the risk, I think we've done our due diligence as well in terms of like getting all these studies ahead of time.

01:59:42 Kevin Mcnab: So we've got our geotechnical study and we've got our archaeological.

01:59:46 Kevin Mcnab: So to avoid those potential, you know, potholes that could creep up through the through the construction process.

01:59:58 Kevin Mcnab: So.

01:59:59 Kevin Mcnab: Okay.

01:59:59 Kevin Mcnab: Thank you for that question and answer.

02:00:03 Kevin Mcnab: Any any other questions?

02:00:04 Kevin Mcnab: So okay, go ahead, Councilor Eccles.

02:00:07 Kevin Mcnab: Thank you.

02:00:24 Paul Mcqueen: Now that we've have released or awarded the tender and whatnot, have we worked with the company with DOMS?

02:00:33 Paul Mcqueen: To see if there's anything that they think that we have in the proposal over priced, over did that they can find some savings within this through through the deputy.

02:00:35 Paul Mcqueen: Word, thank you for the question.

02:00:36 Paul Mcqueen: So Dom is learning about this in in real time.

02:00:38 Paul Mcqueen: So we're for the purchasing policy, we're not allowed to work with them prior to this meeting today.

02:00:39 Paul Mcqueen: So if that's council's direction to us to negotiate price savings, then that would be the trigger us to go back and start having those conversations with Dom on scope and that sort of thing.

02:00:48 Kevin Eccles: However, I would just caution that this is a time sensitive project, which is why we're asking for approval today.

02:01:01 Kevin Eccles: Anticipation that.

02:01:02 Kevin Eccles: We need to be ready for the 2026-2027 winter winter season.

02:01:09 Kevin Eccles: So, time is of the essence.

02:01:14 Kevin Eccles: We go back and and we start negotiating these things.

02:01:16 Kevin Eccles: Then we potentially maybe not be approved for another four weeks from today.

02:01:22 Kevin Eccles: So, that's just one of the things that I would like to caution.

02:01:27 Kevin Eccles: But thank you.

02:01:29 Kevin Eccles: Through UW, warning further to to Sean's comments.

02:01:33 Kevin Eccles: Once awarded, if this motion passes, as as Sean indicated, we'd be working with Dom to see if there's any potential for savings.

02:01:46 Kevin Eccles: We've done that with previous projects, working with Dom, and they've been good to work with on those other projects to see if where we can make sure we can, if there's savings to be found,

02:02:03 Kevin Eccles: we'll we'll work with them on that.

02:02:06 Kevin Eccles: And they've also been work really good to work with to make sure that we're not dipping.

02:02:12 Kevin Eccles: Into those contingencies, and as Sean indicated, because we've done some of that due diligence work pre ahead of this, we're hoping that the the the risk is low for any surprises to pop up.

02:02:32 Kevin Mcnab: I'll say along the way, but of course, to make sure that we have those, we have built in those contingencies,

02:02:45 Kevin Mcnab: which as Sean is indicated is making up really the bulk of the difference in terms of the overage for the overall project.

02:02:54 Kevin Mcnab: Thank you, Randy.

02:02:55 Kevin Mcnab: Any other questions?

02:02:55 Kevin Mcnab: I was just from the chair.

02:02:57 Kevin Mcnab: I was just going to say that I count eighteen overhead doors on the proposal here.

02:03:03 Kevin Mcnab: Now I have been in the current garage, if I can call it that.

02:03:08 Kevin Mcnab: I don't think there's in excess of maybe half a dozen.

02:03:12 Kevin Mcnab: So this is quite an upgrade.

02:03:13 Kevin Mcnab: So I would think that there might be some room to.

02:03:18 Kevin Mcnab: Negotiate.

02:03:19 Kevin Mcnab: That maybe we don't need eighteen, sixteen by twelve foot holes in the wall that are going to be open on a regular basis.

02:03:28 Kevin Mcnab: But anyway, that's just my insight for what it's worth.

02:03:34 Kevin Mcnab: All right.

02:03:35 Kevin Mcnab: Any further questions on the proposal?

02:03:37 Kevin Mcnab: Okay.

02:03:38 Kevin Mcnab: I'll call the question.

02:03:40 Kevin Mcnab: All those in favor?

02:03:42 Kevin Mcnab: That is carried.

02:03:44 Kevin Mcnab: Thank you very much.

02:03:45 Kevin Mcnab: So I am a, I am apprised that lunch is here.

02:03:50 Kevin Mcnab: It's not a hot lunch, but it is here nonetheless.

02:04:19 Kevin Mcnab: But I'm thinking if we can get close to the end of the agenda by twelve thirty, we can maybe finish this off before we break for lunch.

02:04:29 Kevin Mcnab: Yeah, I'm thinking.

02:04:30 Kevin Mcnab: I'm seeing that.

02:04:30 Kevin Mcnab: I just wanted to make sure that everybody was aware that the chair is trying.

02:04:32 Kevin Mcnab: So the next report is the response time performance plan results from Kevin here.

02:04:34 Kevin Mcnab: And certainly, Kevin, this is important stuff.

02:04:35 Kevin Mcnab: I didn't mean to rush your report by any means or anyone else's report, but just give you the floor.

02:04:37 Kevin Mcnab: You're, sir.

02:04:38 Kevin Mcnab: No problem.

02:04:39 Kevin Mcnab: I apologize, sir.

02:04:40 Kevin Mcnab: I I need to jump in there.

02:04:43 Kevin Mcnab: I don't think we we need a mover and seconder, Councillor McKay and Councillor McQueen.

02:04:49 Kevin Mcnab: Sorry, Kevin.

02:04:50 Kevin Mcnab: Go ahead.

02:04:51 Kevin Mcnab: Morning, Deputy Boarding Boarding and County Council.

02:04:54 Kevin Mcnab: Pleased to be here, and hopefully not take too much of the time here, but I'll I'll try to cover it as best I can too.

02:05:05 Kevin Mcnab: So, so today, just the motion is to submit our response time results for the 2025 year prior to March 31st.

02:05:15 Kevin Mcnab: So the county each year we.

02:05:17 SPEAKER_417: Develop a response time plan for the upcoming year.

02:05:41 Kevin Eccles: We generally have a report to council in August, and we have to have it submitted to the Ministry of Health in October.

02:05:51 Kevin Eccles: The results that are today were for last year for 2025, and we have to report them before March 31st each year.

02:05:57 Kevin Eccles: The targets that we developed were developed in 2012, based upon where we were at at that point with our response times.

02:06:11 Kevin Mcnab: The response times are broken down into responses to sudden cardiac arrest, C tasks one through five, and based upon our most life threatening calls called force.

02:06:24 Kevin Mcnab: Despite rising call volumes, we've never increased our response time.

02:06:27 Kevin Mcnab: We have actually improved upon the response times, but where we were at in 2015.

02:06:32 Kevin Mcnab: For the 2016 year, we went from 50% of the time being there in eight minutes, raising that target that we'd be there in 60% of the time,

02:06:44 Kevin Mcnab: and then also for our C-Tasks 3 to 5, our less urgent calls that we would be there in 20 minutes, 90% of the time versus 30 minutes, 90% of the time.

02:06:56 SPEAKER_417: As far as call volume goes, we continue to see increases in call volume.

02:07:08 Randy Scherzer: The ORH comprehensive deployment review had said that we would see a 5.8% increase in calls every year over the next 10 years.

02:07:15 Randy Scherzer: Last year was 8.96%, or just over 1,400 more calls.

02:07:19 Randy Scherzer: We generally look at these over longer periods of time though, because there are years where you have low numbers in areas that you have high numbers, but even looking at a five and 10 year,

02:07:30 Randy Scherzer: five years were at 43% over.

02:07:33 Randy Scherzer: Over five years and ten years, we're at that, and that works out to about 8.6% per year.

02:07:40 Randy Scherzer: Over a ten year, we're still sitting at 6.6%, so it is slightly higher than what ORH predicted through the review.

02:07:48 Randy Scherzer: So these are our results.

02:07:49 Randy Scherzer: We report them on a county-wide plan, and you can see here that we met in all targets other than the C-Task 1 in eight minutes.

02:08:01 Brian Milne: Sixty percent of the time, we were slightly under, just over a percent, and then also for the C-Task 2 in fifteen minutes, we're slightly under the response time percentage again, just over a percent.

02:08:15 Brian Milne: On the right, though, I think it's good to look at a five-year average to see where we are maintaining, and they're remaining relatively consistent.

02:08:40 Brian Milne: As far as looking at lower tiers, it's not a requirement by the ministry to report on lower tiers, but we do just to show the differences across the county.

02:08:50 Brian Milne: It's recognized that there are lower tiers that have longer response times than others.

02:08:51 Brian Milne: Typically, this is about distance, and the work that we're doing with the excuse me, ORH comprehensive deployment review by adding bases,

02:08:57 Brian Milne: we hope to be able to continue to work on these response times in our more rural areas.

02:09:01 Brian Milne: You definitely get more benefit with your ambulances in your highest urban areas.

02:09:05 Brian Milne: That's where most of your calls take place.

02:09:08 Brian Milne: But we try to balance that out as best we can with spreading our resources where we don't have multiple units sitting together.

02:09:17 Brian Milne: We try to spread them out wherever we can.

02:09:21 Brian Milne: So this chart will break it down by your lower-tier municipalities.

02:09:23 Brian Milne: You can see the numbers in red where we did not meet the targets.

02:09:36 Brian Milne: Keeping in mind our sudden cardiac arrests and our C-TAS 1 calls, these are less than 200 or just over 200 calls a year, and in a number of calls of 17,000.

02:09:53 SPEAKER_411: If you look at areas like Owen Sound and Hanover, where it is a fairly small area to respond to, those numbers are pretty good.

02:10:02 SPEAKER_411: But when you get outside those areas, you know that's where you see those numbers change.

02:10:12 SPEAKER_411: And if you think about a six-minute response time, that's really a four-and-a-half-minute drive time.

02:10:17 SPEAKER_411: Is it?

02:10:17 SPEAKER_411: It's not from the time you leave the building, it's from the time the pager goes off.

02:10:27 SPEAKER_411: So you have to get in the truck, find out where you're going, which is pretty a lot better now because we have digital mapping.

02:10:37 SPEAKER_411: But then get to that location.

02:10:38 SPEAKER_411: So you have to build that in, and the same with the eight-minute response.

02:10:44 SPEAKER_411: You have to, you know, you're looking at probably six-and-a-half or a seven-minute drive time.

02:10:55 SPEAKER_411: A seven-minute drive time.

02:11:08 SPEAKER_411: We did modeling in the past and we showed maps that really you're just kind of looking around the periphery of the town to meet in those areas.

02:11:18 SPEAKER_411: So it is tough in the more rural areas to meet those, but still the drivers of 15 minutes again,

02:11:20 SPEAKER_411: that's that's our target for our rural area and really around the ORH we look at eight minutes for urban and 15 minutes for our rural.

02:11:26 SPEAKER_411: You know, as a system, we're right around that 15-minute mark, and then 20 minutes for C-Tasks 3, 4, and 5.

02:11:36 SPEAKER_411: We generally are there within that time frame.

02:11:39 SPEAKER_411: This is a driver that I look at a lot is the 90th percentile, nine times out of ten.

02:11:48 SPEAKER_411: How long does it take to get there on a Code 4 call?

02:11:51 SPEAKER_411: It's 15 minutes and 32 seconds.

02:11:53 SPEAKER_411: We were just, I think six seconds over the year before, and that number has been anywhere about from 14-and-a-half minutes, and it's been as high as 17.

02:12:04 SPEAKER_411: But in the last number of years, it's been in that fifteen-minute category, and our average response time.

02:12:12 SPEAKER_411: It doesn't really tell you much because there's like two-minute response times, twenty-five-minute response times, but it's good to keep an eye on this to see if the average for every call is going up.

02:12:27 SPEAKER_411: This past year, it's seven fifty; last year, it was seven forty-nine.

02:12:31 SPEAKER_411: So we're kind of holding in that area.

02:12:34 SPEAKER_411: It's just a good monitoring tool for us.

02:12:38 SPEAKER_411: This year, there's some changes coming.

02:12:42 SPEAKER_411: We're moving to a new triage tool, a dispatch.

02:12:44 SPEAKER_411: It is all implemented through the Ministry of Health.

02:13:10 SPEAKER_411: It really is more of a dispatch tool than ours, but it reflects the way we get dispatched to emergency calls.

02:13:20 SPEAKER_411: Right now, emergency calls are your urgent versus emergent are broken down into two levels.

02:13:22 SPEAKER_411: They'll actually be broken down into five.

02:13:23 SPEAKER_411: They'll be color codes: yellow, sorry, green, yellow, orange, and then red and purple.

02:13:25 SPEAKER_411: And with the red and purple being your most serious calls.

02:13:26 SPEAKER_411: A red would be like a chest pain, shortness of breath, and a purple is going to be like an obvious immediate threat, unconscious, cardiac arrest.

02:13:43 SPEAKER_411: This system actually that they're implementing does a really good job of protecting high-priority calls, because right now if you have a chest pain call and you're in a community and a cardiac arrest comes in,

02:13:52 SPEAKER_411: you can't reassign that ambulance.

02:13:53 SPEAKER_411: What happens though with this new dispatching tool?

02:13:54 SPEAKER_411: They can actually take you off of that chest pain.

02:13:56 SPEAKER_411: Not that that's not serious, but we know there's a higher threat that they can take you off.

02:13:59 SPEAKER_411: So we look forward to those changes to help again with those higher-priority calls.

02:14:04 SPEAKER_411: We also are through the budget process.

02:14:07 SPEAKER_411: We've been approved to do another update to our comprehensive deployment review.

02:14:11 SPEAKER_411: We'll be looking at going back to our H to look at the plan that we have in place to 2033, ensuring it meets the criteria that we put in place around call volumes, response times,

02:14:21 SPEAKER_411: looking at updated populations, looking at base locations.

02:14:23 SPEAKER_411: We did reduce the plan a bit, so see how that looks against that as well.

02:14:27 SPEAKER_411: And then also building in the new MPDS, the new triage tool is a good time to do that.

02:14:31 SPEAKER_411: And then also more changes coming.

02:14:33 SPEAKER_411: There's actually a new response time standard that will be implemented.

02:14:36 SPEAKER_411: I'm not sure yet, but it'll be either later this year or most likely next year.

02:14:41 SPEAKER_411: We'll be going away from the C-TAS level of one through five and sudden cardiac arrest.

02:14:45 SPEAKER_411: We'll be looking at for the ministry reporting similar or for Code 4.

02:14:49 SPEAKER_411: We're for Code 4 calls, which we red purples.

02:14:52 SPEAKER_411: They'll be reported on a percentile basis to the ministry, and then we'll be looking at locally about the lower-priority calls.

02:14:59 SPEAKER_411: I look forward to this.

02:15:01 SPEAKER_411: It actually does speak more to our geography.

02:15:04 SPEAKER_411: We're going to break it down into as far as population density, but it'll be broken down into urban areas, rural areas, and remote.

02:15:14 SPEAKER_411: For us in Grey, we'll have based upon what we see today, unless it changes, our urban area today would be Hanover and Owen Sound, and the rest of the county would be rural.

02:15:24 SPEAKER_411: Again, all this stuff is in planning, but it's being close to being released here now.

02:15:29 SPEAKER_411: I get the benefit.

02:15:31 SPEAKER_411: I sit on the committee, so I kind of know some of the back end of it all.

02:15:37 SPEAKER_411: But yeah, look forward to that type of breaking it down and giving more realistic response times to people that live.

02:15:45 SPEAKER_411: Just the people that live in the urban versus rural, and we don't have any remote areas.

02:15:50 SPEAKER_411: But think about the struggles of the north.

02:15:53 SPEAKER_411: You know, looking to respond to a six-minute call is really difficult.

02:15:56 SPEAKER_411: So, anyways, we hope to be able to incorporate all that into the new comprehensive deployment review.

02:16:07 SPEAKER_411: That will help us going forward.

02:16:08 SPEAKER_411: And again, it's just we did, we talked about doing that check-in to see where we're at, and we'll be able to,

02:16:17 SPEAKER_411: we hope to be able to start that soon and get back to us in the fall here and for direction.

02:16:26 SPEAKER_411: Yep.

02:16:27 SPEAKER_411: So I actually talked about that with a clip and a slide.

02:16:32 SPEAKER_411: So, anyways, I'll take any questions.

02:16:34 SPEAKER_411: Okay.

02:16:35 SPEAKER_411: Thank you for that report, Kevin.

02:16:37 SPEAKER_411: Are there any questions, Councillor DeBrine?

02:16:39 SPEAKER_411: Please.

02:16:39 SPEAKER_411: Thank you, Deputy Warden.

02:16:40 SPEAKER_411: Thank you, Kevin.

02:16:41 SPEAKER_411: Back a little bit ago, there were some concerns about response time in the southwest area.

02:16:48 SPEAKER_411: Can you refresh my memory that we have mutual aid agreements?

02:16:52 SPEAKER_411: The dispatch could come from Wellington North or Dufferin in the south, in order because I can't imagine having to dispatch from Dundalk to get to you know the southwest corner that's closest to Mount Forest.

02:17:04 SPEAKER_411: Can you just elaborate on how that is integrated into dispatch and helps with the improved response time?

02:17:09 SPEAKER_411: So there's two levels of response: the code four life and death emergency, which we consider a seamless system, where if wherever the closest ambulance is, then they send that vehicle.

02:17:25 SPEAKER_411: So we look at Southgate, we border.

02:17:27 SPEAKER_411: Southgate, we border on the Cambridge Dispatch, which we do for in County and Wellington County, and based upon where those ambulances are, if it's closer to Mount Forest, then they would be sent.

02:17:42 SPEAKER_411: The thing is, we don't always know where Mount Forest is.

02:17:44 SPEAKER_411: They could be on standby hours, so we, we, we do rely upon them somewhat, but they can't always be there.

02:17:52 SPEAKER_411: For the lower priority calls, the municipalities around us, other than Bruce and Grey, we work back and forth together.

02:18:00 SPEAKER_411: But for code three calls, there are calls.

02:18:14 SPEAKER_411: They, they, they're, they're urgent calls, not life and death, not emergent, so they are sent to us.

02:18:23 SPEAKER_411: They will not be double dispatched.

02:18:24 SPEAKER_411: Any other questions?

02:18:25 SPEAKER_411: Okay, not seeing any.

02:18:26 SPEAKER_411: I'll call the question.

02:18:26 SPEAKER_411: All those in favor?

02:18:27 SPEAKER_411: That is carried.

02:18:28 SPEAKER_411: Thank you, Kevin.

02:18:28 SPEAKER_411: Okay, moving on to the report regarding Build Canada Homes program.

02:18:30 SPEAKER_411: We have Anne Marie Shaw here with us today.

02:18:32 SPEAKER_411: She's going to take that report.

02:18:56 SPEAKER_411: I need to move her in second here to receive that report, Councillor Dicker and Councillor Pringle.

02:19:05 SPEAKER_411: Anne Marie.

02:19:06 SPEAKER_411: Thank you, Deputy Waring, and good afternoon, Council.

02:19:07 SPEAKER_411: Build Canada Homes, or BCH, is a new federal agency that will build and finance affordable housing to scale.

02:19:09 SPEAKER_411: This is replacing the National Housing Strategy Affordable Build Program that was in existence for a few years.

02:19:11 SPEAKER_411: There's not a whole lot of information out there, but the program is starting up.

02:19:12 SPEAKER_411: I believe there have been a number of pilot projects that have been done throughout the country, and their portal is now open, and they're looking at any applications.

02:19:14 SPEAKER_411: So they are looking to construct transitional, supportive community, and non-market housing.

02:19:16 SPEAKER_411: And what they mean by non-market housing is housing that is the rent is below the average market rent.

02:19:20 SPEAKER_411: BCH considers housing projects that are new construction, repurposing of non-residential buildings, additions to existing buildings.

02:19:26 SPEAKER_411: They're looking to support a pipeline of projects rather than just one project, so they're looking at that larger scale.

02:19:31 SPEAKER_411: We're proposing to be the lead to bring together nonprofit and ourselves nonprofit organizations that are looking at building.

02:19:42 SPEAKER_411: So we're working closely right now with some of our nonprofit providers that have projects that are waiting for funding or are somewhere along the continuum of being almost ready, shovel ready, and viable.

02:20:01 Kevin Eccles: So I wanted to bring this information to County Council just to let them know that this new agency is in existence now,

02:20:13 Kevin Eccles: and that we are hoping to come back sometime in the spring with a list of projects that we would like to put forward to Build Canada.

02:20:28 Kevin Eccles: We're looking at projects that are viable and that are shovel ready within the next twelve months.

02:20:35 SPEAKER_411: We ourselves have one, and we do have a non-profit housing provider that will be available too.

02:20:45 SPEAKER_411: In order to be looked at, you have to have at least one project that is ready to go within the next twelve months.

02:20:56 SPEAKER_411: We'll have two, so I think that'll put us in a good position to be considered.

02:21:03 SPEAKER_411: And then what we're proposing is letting Build Canada know about the other projects that might be ready within the next five years, and working with them how we could eventually get to that point.

02:21:14 SPEAKER_411: Are there dollars for that exploration program where you're working with an architect?

02:21:20 SPEAKER_411: to find out what you can do with the site.

02:21:23 SPEAKER_411: There used to be seed funding available from CMHC that no longer exists.

02:21:28 SPEAKER_411: So, is that funding still available?

02:21:48 Brian Milne: Unlike previous CMHC programs where you had a formula that you could put in and it would give you an idea of what funding you might be available, that isn't here.

02:21:58 Brian Milne: They're basically saying, "Come to us, talk to us, let's make a deal, let's kind of figure out where we can go."

02:21:59 SPEAKER_412: So, as for the counties, our participation obviously will need to put some funding into that.

02:22:02 SPEAKER_412: What that looks like, I'm not sure at this point until we have some projects with a little bit more information that we can go forward and say, "You know, here's 10%.

02:22:18 SPEAKER_412: Here's what we can do: putting down 10% of the funding, 15, that kind of idea."

02:22:24 SPEAKER_412: That's kind of one of the ideas that we have moving forward.

02:22:28 SPEAKER_412: We will have funds from our Affordable Housing Fund available.

02:22:32 SPEAKER_412: There are limited funds. through our Cochi, which is our Canada Ontario Community Housing Initiative, that from the province that we'll be able to provide,

02:22:44 SPEAKER_412: and any other funds that we might be able to find along the way.

02:22:51 SPEAKER_412: So, just wanted to bring that information forward, and happy to answer any questions.

02:22:59 SPEAKER_412: Thank you, Anne Marie.

02:23:01 SPEAKER_412: Are there any questions from council?

02:23:03 SPEAKER_412: Not seeing any.

02:23:04 SPEAKER_412: Oh, oh, sorry, Councillor Hope.

02:23:07 SPEAKER_412: Go ahead, please.

02:23:08 SPEAKER_412: There we go.

02:23:10 SPEAKER_412: Thank you.

02:23:12 SPEAKER_412: Well, thank you.

02:23:14 SPEAKER_412: This is this is very exciting, and really appreciate the report.

02:23:18 SPEAKER_412: I'm just wondering, from a staff perspective, have you been speaking with different CAO?

02:23:25 SPEAKER_412: In our case, it's the CAO handling.

02:23:28 SPEAKER_412: We've we've got some opportunities on our back burner, and I'm sure other municipalities do as well.

02:23:34 SPEAKER_412: So, just wondering where we are on on that.

02:23:39 SPEAKER_412: Thank you.

02:23:39 SPEAKER_412: So we have in in in the case of Town Blue Mountains, yes, we have been chatting with CAO,

02:23:46 SPEAKER_412: but we are looking at nonprofit housing providers also because it is not only do we have to build it, but someone has to run it too.

02:23:58 SPEAKER_412: So that's sort of where we're looking.

02:24:00 SPEAKER_412: But yes, we're trying to explore any and all opportunities that we may have, keeping in mind that we will have limited funds to go towards those.

02:24:09 SPEAKER_412: But so we do have to be realistic about what is viable and where the funds are.

02:24:16 SPEAKER_412: But yes, very good.

02:24:17 SPEAKER_412: Any further questions?

02:24:18 SPEAKER_412: Okay, not seeing any.

02:24:19 SPEAKER_412: I'll call the question.

02:24:21 SPEAKER_412: All those in favor?

02:24:22 SPEAKER_412: That is carried.

02:24:23 SPEAKER_412: Thank you, Anne Marie.

02:24:25 SPEAKER_412: Next report is regarding the Egg Advisory Committee meeting minutes.

02:24:28 SPEAKER_412: I think Scott Taylor is going to take that one.

02:24:31 SPEAKER_412: It's the unenviable position of the agenda. but I know Scott will do a marvelous job as he always does.

02:24:40 SPEAKER_412: So, oh, I need to move.

02:24:42 SPEAKER_412: Sorry, you'll move, McQueen, Councillor McQueen, and Councillor McKay.

02:24:44 SPEAKER_412: Scott, please.

02:24:45 SPEAKER_412: Thank you, Mister Deputy Warden, and good afternoon to Council.

02:24:48 SPEAKER_412: So, I typed up some notes today, but maybe I'll just give you the abridged version given the time.

02:25:07 SPEAKER_412: But if anyone knows Jacks, I can go through the whole thing.

02:25:17 SPEAKER_412: Basically, the meeting started with an election of chair and vice chair, and pleased to announce that Member Simon Devore is our new chair, and and Member Gail Ardell is our vice chair.

02:25:19 SPEAKER_412: Following that, we went right into a presentation from Steve Duff, who is a chief economist with AMAPA.

02:25:21 SPEAKER_412: Highly encourage Council to go back and look at this presentation if you haven't already.

02:25:22 SPEAKER_412: There's it's it's packed full of good statistics.

02:25:33 SPEAKER_412: Spoke about the fact that agricultural production has increased more than 57% since the year 2000, which is which is simply astonishing.

02:25:42 SPEAKER_412: Also. talked about the fact that the agri-food industry contributes fifty-one point four billion dollars to the GDP of the province, and more specific to Grey County, as of twenty twenty-one,

02:26:01 SPEAKER_407: the county had two thousand one hundred and seventy-eight farms, which generated almost five hundred and sixty million in in in farm cash receipts.

02:26:10 SPEAKER_407: So I know everyone around this table is is well aware of of how important agricultural is to Grey's economy, but this is just a really nice reminder and and some really sharp statistics.

02:26:12 SPEAKER_412: He did note that the number of farms in Grey between twenty sixteen and twenty twenty-one fell at a slightly faster rate than the provincial average,

02:26:27 SPEAKER_412: and and we will get another update on this following the results of the twenty twenty-six census.

02:26:32 SPEAKER_412: So maybe at some point after the release of the twenty-six census, we have Mister Duff back to to speak to us.

02:26:44 SPEAKER_412: Talked about between twenty twenty or twenty twenty-one and twenty twenty-four, farmland values. grew across the county by an average of ninety percent, sitting at close to nineteen thousand per acre,

02:26:54 SPEAKER_412: which is just slightly under the the provincial average of of twenty one thousand per acre.

02:27:18 Sarah Johnson: And he also noted that during that same time period, the the rental rates of farmland only increased about thirty three percent to about two hundred dollars an acre.

02:27:27 Sarah Johnson: Finally, he presented some information both on the future of agriculture as it relates to impacts from climate change, and also strategies that might seek to to better utilize underutilized farming farmland.

02:27:29 Sarah Johnson: And he talked about a project in the Peterborough area that that tried to match rural landowners with farmers for for greater lease uptake in that regard.

02:27:31 Sarah Johnson: Following that, I presented some information to the committee as a follow up to the December meeting, which looked at energy projects and the potential for energy projects. to have an impact on on farmland,

02:27:42 Sarah Johnson: the provinces projecting that we'll need to grow our energy generation by seventy five percent by the year twenty fifty.

02:27:48 Sarah Johnson: As such, we talked about both the provincial and municipal approvals that are needed for energy projects.

02:27:54 Sarah Johnson: And so, when I talk about energy projects, think about things like ground mounted solar arrays, wind turbines, battery energy storage systems, and and various other projects that we might see scattered across our rural area.

02:28:09 Sarah Johnson: There are some guidelines in place which which limit those uses on agricultural lands, particularly the size and scale of those uses, and also in some cases require the need for an agricultural impact assessment study.

02:28:22 Sarah Johnson: And finally, we also talked about the independent electricity system operator IESO's intakes for more energy projects and the role of both municipal support resolutions. as part of those processes, as well as community benefit agreements.

02:28:37 Sarah Johnson: Next, we moved on to a report from Sarah Johnson, which was an update on the county's review of the forest management bylaw.

02:28:44 Sarah Johnson: The purpose of this report was to provide a summary of the feedback received.

02:28:48 Sarah Johnson: Council will recall we had those public meetings and open houses back in in late April and early May of last year, and and we've been steadily collecting comments since then.

02:29:01 Sarah Johnson: To no surprise, there was a wide array of comments, everything from questioning the county's jurisdiction to even have a bylaw to more specific comments about the current bylaws, the timelines for processing permit applications,

02:29:14 Sarah Johnson: alignment with the the county's climate change action plan, and perhaps more pertinent to the the role of the agricultural advisory committee,

02:29:22 Sarah Johnson: the ability of of farmers to to be able to keep their their farm fields clear of trees in that regard.

02:29:33 Sarah Johnson: With that, we talked about some of the the other feedback we'd heard, and and and I'd say that by volume,

02:29:44 Sarah Johnson: the the most feedback we heard was was around a proposed restriction on limiting circumference limit harvesting.

02:29:48 Sarah Johnson: In response to to the feedback we heard, staff are investigating options that that wouldn't have an all-out prohibition on circumference limit harvesting, but maybe some further restrictions or guidelines in that regard.

02:30:03 Sarah Johnson: We also talked about some further changes that could be made to the bylaw, with respect to some minor administrative matters,

02:30:11 Sarah Johnson: and also potentially adding a fee for permit applications in that regard to help recoup some of the staff and and reasonable time needed to process those applications.

02:30:24 Sarah Johnson: Finally, we had a discussion about the detailed comments that we received from the Saugyeen Ojibwe Nation.

02:30:29 Sarah Johnson: So the Saugyeen Ojibwe Nation staff have have provided a lots of comments to the county about the bylaw. recognizing Saan's traditional territory.

02:30:38 Sarah Johnson: They also talked about rather than just environmentally significant areas, the notion of culturally significant areas.

02:30:49 Sarah Johnson: They recommended the removal of clear cutting from the bylaw, the potential for increasing fines, and and incorporating traditional knowledge into into civil cultural prescriptions in that regard.

02:30:59 Sarah Johnson: So staff are continuing to work with with Saan's staff in that regard and and looking at what might be we might be able to incorporate into the bylaw what might find its way say into

02:31:12 Sarah Johnson: other policy documents like a future official plan review and and what might be sort of outside of the scope of what we can do.

02:31:22 Sarah Johnson: So the hope is that we bring a final report and a final bylaw back to to this table in late spring of twenty twenty six for council's consideration in that regard.

02:31:34 Sarah Johnson: And then on a similar vein of update.

02:31:37 Sarah Johnson: And then on a similar vein of updates, Sarah also presented a second report on an update to the the Beaver and Coyote Bylaw reviews,

02:31:48 Sarah Johnson: and and she had presented an initial update to the Ag Advisory Committee in September of 2025 to outline some of the receive the feedback received at that time.

02:32:01 Sarah Johnson: As council may recall, we heard comments both in support of and in opposition to the bylaws.

02:32:06 Sarah Johnson: Following that September 25 update, staff did a bunch of research into the comments received,

02:32:13 Sarah Johnson: and particularly some of the comments received around are there non-lethal control methods that would would better serve the county and the agricultural community in this regard with respect to nuisance animal control in that regard.

02:32:28 Sarah Johnson: So Sarah's report presented some of the research in that regard, and then got into some some potential options that the county could consider going forward.

02:32:39 Sarah Johnson: For example, if the bylaws were to be updated and refreshed.

02:32:44 Sarah Johnson: Are there there further considerations we need to make around the fees paid to trappers?

02:32:54 Sarah Johnson: Those fees have stayed standard for for many many years now.

02:32:59 Sarah Johnson: So, is there options to increase those fees?

02:33:01 Sarah Johnson: Is there also options for further refinement?

02:33:03 Sarah Johnson: So, right now, if a municipality hires a trapper to trap beavers that are blocking their culverts, that trapper is paid by the municipality for their services.

02:33:12 Sarah Johnson: But then the trapper can also submit claims back to the county to be reimbursed based on the number of beaver tails collected.

02:33:20 Sarah Johnson: So, maybe if we were to look at refinements to the bylaw, there could be exceptions for public lands such that the trappers are paid fairly for their services,

02:33:32 Sarah Johnson: but that they're not they're not also reimbursed a second time from the county in that regard.

02:33:39 Sarah Johnson: So, just some options that we could bring back to council at a later time for consideration.

02:33:45 Sarah Johnson: She also went through some options if if the county were to to not carry forward with the bylaws in that regard,

02:33:54 Sarah Johnson: currently the county budgets fifteen thousand dollars per year for beavers and fifteen thousand dollars per year for coyotes, and so if we were to to rescind these bylaws and not replace them with anything,

02:34:08 Sarah Johnson: are there ways that we could spend those monies to to a increase education in this regard, and then b also look at maybe some non lethal control method grants,

02:34:22 Sarah Johnson: so maybe there's there's fencing or other abatement grants that could be offered to to the farming community in that regard, on the education role and on some of the the non financial elements,

02:34:34 Sarah Johnson: we could also work with municipalities on on changes to some of their dog bylaws, which might further assist the agricultural community in this regard.

02:34:44 Sarah Johnson: So I also stress to the committee that the fact that the county has these bylaws, or if in some future world the county doesn't have these bylaws,

02:34:53 Sarah Johnson: the bylaws aren't a permission to to trap or a permission to hunt.

02:34:57 Sarah Johnson: The bylaws are are simply reimbursement for for nuisance beavers and coyotes in that regard.

02:35:02 Sarah Johnson: So regardless of what the county does with its bylaws, municipalities and or or landowners will still be able to hire trappers to to to complete the trapping in that regard.

02:35:15 Sarah Johnson: Whether the county moves forward or not is is not permission.

02:35:20 Sarah Johnson: It's just it's just compensation in that regard.

02:35:23 Sarah Johnson: And so the committee had a good discussion on this.

02:35:26 Sarah Johnson: There was lots of good feedback, including some members of the committee noted that yes, there are these non lethal control methods, but they do come at a great cost to farmers,

02:35:37 Sarah Johnson: and and and that's something to be considered.

02:35:40 Sarah Johnson: There was questions about some of the research that was presented and and whether research from the states is is is also pertinent to a great county context.

02:35:49 Sarah Johnson: And there was folks around the table that noted. the importance of these bylaws both to farmers and trappers.

02:35:57 Sarah Johnson: In that regard, we also heard other comments with respect to the fact that farmers are going to protect their livestock regardless of the county bylaws, and some are very proactive in that regard.

02:36:12 Sarah Johnson: Sarah noted that that we take the feedback we heard from the agricultural advisory committee and try to bring a further recommendation report to this council, perhaps in late spring or early summer of twenty six.

02:36:29 Sarah Johnson: And then I promise I'm almost done.

02:36:31 Sarah Johnson: Finally, we had a roundtable discussion, which is usually the most interesting part of these meetings.