Grey County Committee of the Whole Meeting Transcript — June 11, 2026
Hook: This Infrastructure Rehabilitation Applications Immediate
Grey County · Committee of the Whole · June 11, 2026
Summary
The Committee of the Whole convened in Grey County to address critical financial vulnerabilities and infrastructure priorities, moving decisively against provincial funding risks. While procedural items like the annual report from Jessica (Nuclear Innovation Institute) were noted without deep discussion, the chamber focused intensely on two high-stakes realities: securing capital for emergency services at Olmstead Fire Hall during a period of uncertainty, and navigating a precarious shift in how development charges are handled to prevent massive fiscal losses. The meeting concluded with approvals that effectively authorize staff to negotiate top-priority projects under Section 26.6B before final council ratification—a necessary maneuver as the province signals potential cuts leaving municipalities exposed with an 80-85% gap between projected recovery and actual funding.
Top Newsworthy Developments
- Staffing Evolution Unlocked Millions in External Funding for Green Development and EV: Linda Swanston detailed the evolution of county resources allocated since 2022 towards climate change staffing, noting a shift from permanent roles in 2023 to contract positions due to budget pressures by 2025 and 2026. Linda Swanston: Once the plan was approved, through Linda Swanston: each subsequent budget year, there has Linda Swanston:.
- 2027 Tax Levy Projection Increased to $91,275,200 Following Discussions on Budget Pressures: The council addressed a projected increase in levy contributions for 2027, rising from $83.9 million in 2026 to an estimated $91.3 million due to various changes throughout the year. Following this financial update, members voted on an amendment regarding these budget figures before proceeding.
- Notice of Motion: Councilors debated the Canada-Ontario Development Charges Reduction Program eligibility, noting joint project complexities and provincial funding risks where municipalities might lose 80-85% of charges without guaranteed recovery. An amendment was moved to authorize staff application under Section 26.6B prior to council approval, allowing negotiation on top-priority projects if the province selects fewer than submitted.
Key Topics & Sections
Meeting Details
- Jurisdiction
- Grey County
- Body
- Committee of the Whole
- Date
- June 11, 2026
- Transcript Status
- Machine transcription, lightly cleaned
- Official Source
- View official meeting page
- Agenda Page
- View agenda page
- Original Video
- View original meeting video
- Meeting Portal
- View eScribe meeting page
Related Discussion
HelpOS discussion thread link pending.
Transcript Notice
This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors in wording, speaker identification, punctuation, or timestamps.
It is an unofficial convenience copy provided for reading and searchability.
For the official record, refer to the original source materials published by the relevant authority, including the official video, agenda, minutes, and meeting records.
Full Transcript
1 CALL TO ORDER
Councillor Greg presented a notice of motion directing County staff to engage with neighboring municipalities regarding emergency service needs for the Olmstead Fire Hall rehabilitation and future Inter-Township requirements.
00:00:09 Speaker 01: Okay, I'd like to call to
00:00:10 Speaker 01: order this committee. The whole agenda
00:00:11 Speaker 01: of June eleventh, twenty twenty-six. At
00:00:14 Speaker 01: this point in time, I will
00:00:15 Speaker 01: put out a call. Any items
00:00:16 Speaker 01: on the agenda? Anyone wishing to
00:00:18 Speaker 01: declare a an interest? Seeing no
00:00:22 Speaker 01: hands raised, we'll move on. Then
00:00:24 Speaker 01: we'll move to the business arising
00:00:25 Speaker 01: from the minutes. And the first
00:00:27 Speaker 01: item it's item three a, and
00:00:29 Speaker 01: this. 3A, and this is with
00:00:31 Speaker 01: regards to the notice of motion
00:00:32 Speaker 01: that was provided by Councillor Greg,
00:00:35 Speaker 01: and Councillor Greg, I would like
00:00:36 Speaker 01: to ask you if you could
00:00:38 Speaker 01: please read out that notice of
00:00:39 Speaker 01: motion. I will then look for
00:00:40 Speaker 01: a seconder. If we have a
00:00:42 Speaker 01: seconder, it'll go on the floor
00:00:43 Speaker 01: for discussion. I will return to
00:00:44 Speaker 01: you for the first part of
00:00:48 Speaker 02: the discussion. Thank you. And through
00:00:50 Speaker 02: you, beg to present. Whereas the
00:00:52 Speaker 02: County of Grey is obligated to
00:00:54 Speaker 02: submit a response time performance plan
00:00:55 Speaker 02: to the Ministry of Health on
00:00:57 Speaker 02: an annual basis, and whereas the
00:00:58 Speaker 02: City of Woodland And whereas
00:00:59 Speaker 02: the City of Olmstead has identified
00:01:01 Speaker 02: rehabilitation requirements for the Olmstead Fire
00:01:02 Speaker 02: Hall, and the Township of Georgetown
00:01:03 Speaker 02: Bluffs and the Municipality of Meaford
00:01:06 Speaker 02: have identified future needs for the
00:01:08 Speaker 02: Inter-Township Fire Department. Now, therefore, Council
00:01:10 Speaker 02: for the County agrees, directs County
00:01:11 Speaker 02: staff to engage in conversations with
00:01:13 Speaker 02: the Township of Georgetown Bluffs, the
00:01:14 Speaker 02: Municipality of Meaford, and the City
00:01:17 Speaker 02: of Olmstead, and/or the relevant boards
00:01:19 Speaker 02: to analyze and ensure emergency services
00:01:21 Speaker 02: are being provided in the most
00:01:25 Speaker 01: financially responsible manner. Okay, I will
00:01:31 Speaker 01: look for a seconder. Okay, I
00:01:32 Speaker 01: see it seconded by Councillor Eccles.
00:01:33 Speaker 01: It's now on the floor for
00:01:34 Speaker 01: discussion. So I will return to
00:01:39 Speaker 02: you, Councillor Gray. Thank you. And
00:01:41 Speaker 02: just for a little bit of
00:01:43 Speaker 02: background for my colleagues around the
00:01:45 Speaker 02: county, at the City of Onondaga,
00:01:47 Speaker 02: we are certainly preparing in the
00:01:52 Speaker 02: near future for renovations and improvements
00:01:55 Speaker 02: in various for various items that
00:01:58 Speaker 02: are. deficient at the fire hall,
00:02:01 Speaker 02: and evaluating across the city as
00:02:03 Speaker 02: well, where the inner township fire
00:02:05 Speaker 02: department is located on Second Avenue
00:02:08 Speaker 02: West, adjacent to a new housing
00:02:09 Speaker 02: construct or a housing development, which
00:02:13 Speaker 02: is substantial and going to, I
00:02:16 Speaker 02: think, provide 240 homes in that
00:02:19 Speaker 02: immediate neighborhood. I'm not certain on
00:02:21 Speaker 02: where George and Bluffs sits these
00:02:23 Speaker 02: days in the municipality of Meaford
00:02:24 Speaker 02: in terms of their comfort. and
00:02:28 Speaker 02: the location, on a go-forward basis,
00:02:30 Speaker 02: it may be fine three weeks,
00:02:32 Speaker 02: three months, three years from now.
00:02:33 Speaker 02: But I think this is a
00:02:35 Speaker 02: discussion that's looking at what's best
00:02:37 Speaker 02: for the communities ten, fifteen, and
00:02:39 Speaker 02: twenty years from now. And the
00:02:44 Speaker 02: reason I think that there is
00:02:45 Speaker 02: motivation to have the county engaged
00:02:47 Speaker 02: in this is right now, adjoining
00:02:49 Speaker 02: the Onondaga Fire Hall is a
00:02:51 Speaker 02: county ambulance bay, which is owned
00:02:54 Speaker 02: by the county. we are undertaking
00:02:58 Speaker 02: an update to our response master
00:02:59 Speaker 02: plan. I don't want to say
00:03:00 Speaker 02: master plan; it wasn't a master
00:03:02 Speaker 02: plan, but it was a consultation
00:03:04 Speaker 02: study a few years ago. This
00:03:06 Speaker 02: year, we're undertaking an update to
00:03:08 Speaker 02: that to see where we stand.
00:03:14 Speaker 02: We've had some individuals discuss acknowledging
00:03:16 Speaker 02: the the growth of and expansion
00:03:18 Speaker 02: of the paramedic services within the
00:03:25 Speaker 02: county and more bases. Certainly. adds
00:03:28 Speaker 02: financial challenges into the years forward
00:03:31 Speaker 02: for the county. And why I'm
00:03:32 Speaker 02: wondering the county should be part
00:03:35 Speaker 02: of this discussion is what is
00:03:37 Speaker 02: right in terms of what the
00:03:38 Speaker 02: fire services looks like in the
00:03:40 Speaker 02: next few years in terms of
00:03:42 Speaker 02: location. So, is the best location
00:03:45 Speaker 02: for the county paramedic base long
00:03:48 Speaker 02: term? Is it still beside the
00:03:51 Speaker 02: Uinta Sound Fire Hall? or maybe
00:03:53 Speaker 02: it's located where the Inter Township
00:03:55 Speaker 02: Fire Hall currently sits now on
00:03:58 Speaker 02: Second Avenue West, which may heighten
00:04:01 Speaker 02: the response times to Georgian Bluffs
00:04:04 Speaker 02: and to the northwest portion of
00:04:07 Speaker 02: the county. We have in the
00:04:09 Speaker 02: immediate plan right now another base
00:04:15 Speaker 02: to be constructed at Cobble Beach,
00:04:16 Speaker 02: but are there improvements that we
00:04:18 Speaker 02: can make in the way that
00:04:21 Speaker 02: we're conducting? business right now, that
00:04:23 Speaker 02: may remove that financial requirement for
00:04:25 Speaker 02: an additional base in the future.
00:04:27 Speaker 02: We have to acknowledge that at
00:04:29 Speaker 02: times people do locate themselves in
00:04:32 Speaker 02: rural areas of of the of
00:04:35 Speaker 02: the the county, and one of
00:04:37 Speaker 02: the the sacrifices sometimes in doing
00:04:41 Speaker 02: so is is maybe a lesser
00:04:44 Speaker 02: standard or service response time for
00:04:45 Speaker 02: those choices are being made. It's
00:04:46 Speaker 02: just very expensive to be able
00:04:50 Speaker 02: to provide. those services across the
00:04:53 Speaker 02: county in a heightened fashion to
00:04:57 Speaker 02: to all residents. So I'm wondering
00:04:59 Speaker 02: the discussion. I don't want to
00:05:01 Speaker 02: see us continuing to operate in
00:05:04 Speaker 02: silos, which I think is that's
00:05:06 Speaker 02: the danger. In the city, we
00:05:08 Speaker 02: have our master fire plan. Georgian
00:05:11 Speaker 02: Bluffs, you probably have your master
00:05:12 Speaker 02: fire plan. Township of Meaford, you
00:05:14 Speaker 02: probably have your master fire
00:05:18 Speaker 02: plan. We have our paramedics. We
00:05:21 Speaker 02: have our paramedic services optimization response
00:05:23 Speaker 02: time plan, but my concern is,
00:05:26 Speaker 02: where's the motivation for us to
00:05:29 Speaker 02: work together in ensuring that what
00:05:32 Speaker 02: it looks like ten years, fifteen
00:05:34 Speaker 02: years from now is the best
00:05:36 Speaker 02: means of service provision for the
00:05:38 Speaker 02: residents of of Gray County and
00:05:39 Speaker 02: and Georgetown Bluffs, So and Sound,
00:05:43 Speaker 02: Meadford, but for all of us
00:05:46 Speaker 02: in terms of a response standard
00:05:49 Speaker 02: that we're all. proud of and
00:05:51 Speaker 02: satisfied with, but one that is
00:05:53 Speaker 02: financially sustainable as well and meets
00:05:56 Speaker 02: our goals and objectives. So, I
00:05:57 Speaker 02: don't know what the future could
00:06:00 Speaker 02: look like. Is a paramedic base
00:06:02 Speaker 02: at the inner township hall a
00:06:04 Speaker 02: possibility? I don't know. Is a
00:06:06 Speaker 02: new facility on the sunset strip
00:06:10 Speaker 02: or at Springmount something that would
00:06:12 Speaker 02: meet the objectives and that that
00:06:14 Speaker 02: would be fire and paramedic services?
00:06:16 Speaker 02: I don't. know what I'm asking
00:06:19 Speaker 02: us to do today is to
00:06:23 Speaker 02: direct staff to have those conversations
00:06:25 Speaker 02: and at least mine out in
00:06:28 Speaker 02: that study update. What is the
00:06:30 Speaker 02: best path forward, as opposed to
00:06:31 Speaker 02: just everyone operating in that silo
00:06:34 Speaker 02: and and moving forward in the
00:06:38 Speaker 02: in an approach that might not
00:06:41 Speaker 02: be the best financial approach going
00:06:43 Speaker 03: forward? Okay, thank you. I'll go
00:06:44 Speaker 03: to Councillor Kivney. Thank you, Madam
00:06:46 Speaker 03: Warden, and good morning, everyone. And
00:06:49 Speaker 03: I thank Councillor Greg for bringing
00:06:50 Speaker 03: this motion forward for discussion. However,
00:06:52 Speaker 03: I'm sorry to say at this
00:06:54 Speaker 03: point in time, Miford cannot support
00:06:56 Speaker 03: the motion. For I think the
00:06:59 Speaker 03: simple reason that our council and
00:07:01 Speaker 03: staff have not had an opportunity
00:07:02 Speaker 03: to discuss this, neither has the
00:07:05 Speaker 03: George and Bluffs, nor have we
00:07:06 Speaker 03: discussed it at the ITFD board
00:07:09 Speaker 03: level. Miford does have a fire
00:07:12 Speaker 03: master plan, and it does make
00:07:14 Speaker 03: some recommendations. that suggest Meaford should
00:07:17 Speaker 03: build a second hall within the
00:07:18 Speaker 03: municipality of Meaford. We haven't given
00:07:21 Speaker 03: consideration to that at this point
00:07:23 Speaker 03: in time. And Georgian Bluffs and
00:07:26 Speaker 03: and Councillor Carlton will certainly speak
00:07:29 Speaker 03: on behalf of Georgian Bluffs. You
00:07:31 Speaker 03: know, has other actions and and
00:07:33 Speaker 03: potential considerations ahead of them. So
00:07:35 Speaker 03: I think at this point in
00:07:36 Speaker 03: time, we are just not ready
00:07:38 Speaker 03: to have this conversation at the
00:07:40 Speaker 03: county level. I think it's something
00:07:42 Speaker 03: that needs to be discussed. prior
00:07:45 Speaker 03: to that between Mefford and Georgetown
00:07:46 Speaker 03: Bluffs and the ITFD board. And
00:07:49 Speaker 03: if some decision is made at
00:07:51 Speaker 03: that point in time that requires
00:07:52 Speaker 03: involvement from the county, we can
00:07:53 Speaker 03: come back and have that discussion
00:07:54 Speaker 03: then. But I do not believe
00:07:59 Speaker 03: we're ready at this point in
00:08:02 Speaker 03: time to move forward with this.
00:08:04 Speaker 04: Okay, thank you. Other comments? I'll
00:08:07 Speaker 04: go to Councilor Carlton. Thank you,
00:08:09 Speaker 04: Warden, and good morning, County Council.
00:08:11 Speaker 04: So, I think that tying all
00:08:15 Speaker 04: of this together at this point
00:08:16 Speaker 04: is a little ahead of its
00:08:19 Speaker 04: time. I think the timing is
00:08:20 Speaker 04: a little off, and I say
00:08:23 Speaker 04: that because, yes, George and Bluffs
00:08:25 Speaker 04: and me for do jointly own
00:08:27 Speaker 04: the inner township fire department, but
00:08:29 Speaker 04: outside of that ownership, we each
00:08:31 Speaker 04: have our own individual fire master
00:08:33 Speaker 04: plans. And at this time, George
00:08:35 Speaker 04: and Bluffs is a draft fire
00:08:36 Speaker 04: master plan that has not been
00:08:39 Speaker 04: approved by council. We're waiting for
00:08:41 Speaker 04: a report to come back on
00:08:43 Speaker 04: the 67 recommendations that are within
00:08:46 Speaker 04: that report to identify what the
00:08:48 Speaker 04: future needs are for George and
00:08:51 Speaker 04: Bluffs Fire Services and what we
00:08:52 Speaker 04: can reasonably afford to implement. I
00:08:54 Speaker 04: think Hanover recently built a new
00:08:56 Speaker 04: fire hall at a cost of
00:08:57 Speaker 04: seven and a half million dollars.
00:08:59 Speaker 04: That would be a substantial investment
00:09:02 Speaker 04: that George and Bluffs, Meford, and
00:09:04 Speaker 04: ITFD are going to have
00:09:06 Speaker 04: to need to plan for very
00:09:09 Speaker 04: carefully and have. And having a
00:09:10 Speaker 04: dialogue with neighboring municipalities before our
00:09:13 Speaker 04: own council has had these discussions
00:09:14 Speaker 04: and have agreed upon the long-term
00:09:16 Speaker 04: vision for Georgian Bluffs Fire Master
00:09:17 Speaker 04: Plan feels a bit like putting
00:09:19 Speaker 04: the cart before the horse. I
00:09:21 Speaker 04: would suggest that we're not ready
00:09:23 Speaker 04: to have those discussions yet, and
00:09:26 Speaker 04: that when we are ready, our
00:09:28 Speaker 04: first conversation will be with Miford
00:09:30 Speaker 04: as joint owner of ITFD. Like
00:09:32 Speaker 04: I said, I question the timing
00:09:34 Speaker 04: of this report. I think part
00:09:34 Speaker 04: of what is holding. us up
00:09:37 Speaker 04: at Georgian Bluffs is the fact
00:09:40 Speaker 04: that we're going to have a
00:09:42 Speaker 04: new council looking at a draft
00:09:44 Speaker 04: fire master plan, and proceeding with
00:09:46 Speaker 04: large dollar value items at this
00:09:50 Speaker 04: time just does not seem right.
00:09:51 Speaker 04: So, those reasons I can't support
00:09:54 Speaker 04: this motion at this time. Thank
00:09:57 Speaker 05: you. Thank you. I'll just look
00:10:00 Speaker 05: for any other comments. I'll go
00:10:04 Speaker 05: to Councilor Dobrin. Thank you. Good
00:10:06 Speaker 05: morning, Warden and County Council. I.
00:10:08 Speaker 05: agree with the conversation. I want
00:10:11 Speaker 05: to thank Councilor Greg for bringing
00:10:14 Speaker 05: or opening up the conversation to
00:10:17 Speaker 05: be had, and I would think
00:10:20 Speaker 05: that there would be a natural
00:10:23 Speaker 05: progression in those discussions between Georgetown
00:10:26 Speaker 05: Bluffs and Mefford. That as they
00:10:30 Speaker 05: develop and explore their options, they
00:10:34 Speaker 05: would naturally seek out input from
00:10:36 Speaker 05: Paramedic Services to. if they're going
00:10:39 Speaker 05: to think about redeveloping or relocating.
00:10:41 Speaker 05: So, for that reason, I will
00:10:46 Speaker 05: not support the motion at this
00:10:50 Speaker 05: time, but encourage the conversations to
00:10:53 Speaker 05: happen naturally. Okay, thank you. Well,
00:11:01 Speaker 05: good, Councillor Body. Thank you. I
00:11:03 Speaker 05: thank my my co-pilot here for
00:11:08 Speaker 05: bringing this motion to engage. in
00:11:09 Speaker 05: conversations. That's all. That's all. Let's
00:11:11 Speaker 05: have the conversation. Let's have the
00:11:13 Speaker 05: discussion. I would encourage both of
00:11:14 Speaker 06: you to have all the options
00:11:17 Speaker 06: on the table before you start
00:11:18 Speaker 06: making decisions. Not make decisions and
00:11:23 Speaker 06: then come back and say, "Oh,
00:11:25 Speaker 06: sorry, we've already made a decision.
00:11:26 Speaker 06: We can't have this conversation." There
00:11:29 Speaker 06: may be financial gains for you
00:11:30 Speaker 06: to be able. to move forward
00:11:34 Speaker 06: with this. If you have the
00:11:38 Speaker 06: conversation, you might be able to
00:11:40 Speaker 06: move the ball forward. I just
00:11:43 Speaker 06: think every opportunity that we have
00:11:44 Speaker 06: to work through the county to
00:11:47 Speaker 06: look at opportunities to be more
00:11:48 Speaker 06: efficient, to look at all the
00:11:49 Speaker 06: options that are on the table
00:11:50 Speaker 06: as we make our decisions. The
00:11:52 Speaker 06: lower tier. I don't. I don't
00:11:54 Speaker 06: think we have to make decisions
00:11:56 Speaker 06: at the lower tier. We haven't
00:11:58 Speaker 06: made any decisions at the lower
00:11:59 Speaker 06: tier. Decisions of the Lord here
00:12:01 Speaker 06: on on this, but we're willing
00:12:04 Speaker 06: to have that conversation. And I
00:12:05 Speaker 06: don't think we should ever turn
00:12:15 Speaker 07: down the opportunity to have the
00:12:18 Speaker 07: the county lead us on conversations
00:12:19 Speaker 07: and things that could benefit all
00:12:22 Speaker 07: of us. Thanks. Okay, thank you,
00:12:24 Speaker 07: Councillor Pringle. Thanks, Ward. Great comments
00:12:26 Speaker 07: by everybody here, and I will
00:12:27 Speaker 07: support Councillor Keaveny and Councillor Carlton
00:12:28 Speaker 07: on. our ask not to support,
00:12:30 Speaker 07: but I do want to commend
00:12:32 Speaker 07: Councilor Greg for bringing this forward.
00:12:33 Speaker 07: It is you know it's an
00:12:35 Speaker 07: initiative that we've been talking about
00:12:36 Speaker 07: for years. It's something that will
00:12:37 Speaker 07: happen down the road. Are we
00:12:39 Speaker 07: ready to take it to the
00:12:40 Speaker 07: county level? I'm not sure we're
00:12:43 Speaker 07: ready to do that yet. Are
00:12:44 Speaker 07: we open for conversation? 100. We
00:12:45 Speaker 07: want to do the right thing
00:12:46 Speaker 07: as a township for us, Meaford,
00:12:47 Speaker 07: Owen Sound, you know everybody in
00:12:50 Speaker 07: Grey County. This is it's a
00:12:51 Speaker 07: team effort at the end of
00:12:53 Speaker 07: the day that we want to
00:12:55 Speaker 07: do the right thing and be
00:12:56 Speaker 07: financially responsible. I just do believe
00:12:59 Speaker 07: as two townships right now, we
00:13:00 Speaker 07: may not be ready for all
00:13:03 Speaker 07: those conversations or have those conversations.
00:13:05 Speaker 07: We want to sit down and
00:13:06 Speaker 07: talk it out. Nothing better than
00:13:07 Speaker 07: talking to a director. We nabbed
00:13:08 Speaker 07: there about you know the paramedic
00:13:11 Speaker 07: side of things and what they
00:13:12 Speaker 07: need. Obviously, we want to do
00:13:13 Speaker 07: the right thing at the end
00:13:15 Speaker 07: of the day as two townships
00:13:15 Speaker 07: in the county. But are we
00:13:17 Speaker 07: ready for that yet? I don't
00:13:19 Speaker 07: believe we are. We've talked about
00:13:20 Speaker 07: it. You know, there's a lot
00:13:25 Speaker 07: of things to put in play.
00:13:31 Speaker 07: 100 open to the conversations, but
00:13:32 Speaker 07: I don't. believe we can support
00:13:35 Speaker 07: this at this time. Thank you.
00:13:38 Speaker 02: Okay, thank you. Other comments, Councillor
00:13:40 Speaker 02: Greg. If I could just speak
00:13:42 Speaker 02: to the question of timing, the
00:13:45 Speaker 02: motivation on the timing is because
00:13:46 Speaker 02: this year we are undertaking an
00:13:48 Speaker 02: update to the response plan, so
00:13:50 Speaker 02: this is an issue of not
00:13:52 Speaker 02: missing an opportunity because that opportunity
00:13:54 Speaker 02: is not there next year. It's
00:13:57 Speaker 02: not there in. two years. This
00:13:59 Speaker 02: is a potentially, I don't know,
00:14:00 Speaker 02: three five year update to the
00:14:02 Speaker 02: plan. So that's what motivates it
00:14:04 Speaker 02: now this year. Because I think
00:14:05 Speaker 02: we could talk about the timing,
00:14:08 Speaker 02: but I think you're losing the
00:14:09 Speaker 02: opportunity when you kick it down
00:14:12 Speaker 02: the road. This is the moment
00:14:14 Speaker 02: before the county right now when
00:14:18 Speaker 02: we are evaluating what the future
00:14:19 Speaker 02: response times look like and where
00:14:25 Speaker 02: bases would be located to support
00:14:28 Speaker 02: that. So just wanted to speak
00:14:29 Speaker 02: to that part. Thank you. I'll
00:14:31 Speaker 03: go to Councillor Kivney. Thank you,
00:14:33 Speaker 03: Warden Matrasovs. So, further to Councillor
00:14:35 Speaker 03: Greg's comment about the review, could
00:14:36 Speaker 03: I ask of staff of CIO
00:14:43 Speaker 03: or the Deputy CIO to share
00:14:45 Speaker 08: if there are any updates at
00:14:47 Speaker 08: this time that you can bring
00:14:51 Speaker 08: to council in relation to that
00:14:52 Speaker 08: report? Through you, Warden. Thank you,
00:14:55 Speaker 08: Councillor Kivney. Through you, Warden. Thank
00:14:56 Speaker 08: you, Councillor Kibney, and and the
00:14:58 Speaker 08: comments and discussion around this this
00:15:00 Speaker 08: topic, with respect to the deployment
00:15:02 Speaker 08: review. And I'll look to either
00:15:04 Speaker 08: Niall or Kevin to to also
00:15:07 Speaker 08: confirm some details with respect to
00:15:09 Speaker 08: that. We're in the early stages
00:15:12 Speaker 08: of doing the deployment review that
00:15:15 Speaker 08: was included in the 2026 budget
00:15:17 Speaker 08: to do a deployment review update.
00:15:19 Speaker 08: We're gathering some data and information.
00:15:20 Speaker 08: We'll be moving forward with with
00:15:21 Speaker 08: that that process in in the
00:15:23 Speaker 08: near term. That will hopefully help
00:15:26 Speaker 08: to inform what what this looks
00:15:28 Speaker 08: like in terms of some of
00:15:30 Speaker 08: the growth pressures that obviously we're
00:15:32 Speaker 08: seeing in some of our communities
00:15:35 Speaker 08: as it relates to response times.
00:15:36 Speaker 08: Some of our aging population that's
00:15:39 Speaker 08: also a factor in terms of
00:15:42 Speaker 08: seeing our response times increasing over
00:15:44 Speaker 08: the last number of years, and
00:15:45 Speaker 08: making sure that we're maintaining those
00:15:48 Speaker 08: response times. So so there will
00:15:50 Speaker 08: be an update provided. Councilor Greg's
00:15:52 Speaker 08: correct in terms of the the
00:15:54 Speaker 08: latest deployment review. identifies a need
00:15:57 Speaker 08: for a base at some point
00:15:59 Speaker 08: in Cabo Beach. It's currently, as
00:16:01 Speaker 08: per the last update, was the
00:16:03 Speaker 08: last plan review was scheduled for
00:16:05 Speaker 08: 2028. We do anticipate through this
00:16:09 Speaker 08: update that that will likely be
00:16:11 Speaker 08: pushed pushed out further to 2028.
00:16:15 Speaker 08: We won't know until we go
00:16:18 Speaker 08: through that analysis. Of course, we'll
00:16:20 Speaker 08: be bringing back the findings of
00:16:22 Speaker 08: the deployment review update to council
00:16:23 Speaker 08: for for review. Once that's completed,
00:16:26 Speaker 08: we're of course happy to have
00:16:27 Speaker 08: any conversations and recognizing the comments
00:16:29 Speaker 08: in terms of silos, the bases
00:16:32 Speaker 08: that we've been proceeding with to
00:16:34 Speaker 08: date. We always try to look
00:16:34 Speaker 08: for opportunities to work with municipalities
00:16:39 Speaker 08: on whether there's land that's owned
00:16:43 Speaker 08: by the municipalities that we can
00:16:44 Speaker 08: we can move forward with building
00:16:45 Speaker 08: a base on. We did that
00:16:47 Speaker 08: in partnership with the Durham base,
00:16:50 Speaker 08: for example. We did that in
00:16:52 Speaker 08: partnership with the Fevers. Did that
00:16:53 Speaker 08: in partnership with the Feversham Base
00:16:56 Speaker 08: with with Misspale Gray Highlands, the
00:16:58 Speaker 08: the one that's what's not identified
00:16:59 Speaker 08: in the deployment review, but we're
00:17:01 Speaker 08: still working through potentially options is
00:17:03 Speaker 08: is the Dundalk Base, and so
00:17:05 Speaker 08: we're always willing to have those
00:17:07 Speaker 08: discussions with the municipalities to make
00:17:09 Speaker 08: sure that we're exploring what's the
00:17:11 Speaker 08: best approach to make sure that
00:17:12 Speaker 08: we're trying to do this and
00:17:14 Speaker 08: as cost efficient as possible. So
00:17:16 Speaker 08: we will continue to do that
00:17:17 Speaker 08: for for the other bases that
00:17:18 Speaker 08: have been identified, and following the
00:17:20 Speaker 08: deployment review update. again, depending on
00:17:22 Speaker 08: the timing of the Cobble Beach
00:17:23 Speaker 08: one, if it sounds like maybe
00:17:26 Speaker 08: at some point there may be
00:17:28 Speaker 08: a need to explore something that
00:17:29 Speaker 08: relates to the Owen Sound Fire
00:17:33 Speaker 08: Department, the Owen Sound base, which
00:17:35 Speaker 08: again is not identified in the
00:17:38 Speaker 08: deployment review. But we're happy to
00:17:39 Speaker 08: have those conversations if that need
00:17:41 Speaker 08: arises and what that looks like.
00:17:42 Speaker 08: So, so I just want to
00:17:45 Speaker 08: note that that we we try
00:17:50 Speaker 08: to work through those options and
00:17:52 Speaker 09: opportunities with municipalities as it relates
00:17:54 Speaker 09: to from our perspective the deployment
00:17:55 Speaker 09: review. update side of things. I
00:17:56 Speaker 09: don't know if that captures everything,
00:17:58 Speaker 09: but if Niall and Kevin have
00:18:00 Speaker 09: any further, I'll also look to
00:18:01 Speaker 09: them. But thank you. Okay, Director
00:18:04 Speaker 09: McAvoy, anything? Yeah, just maybe to
00:18:05 Speaker 09: add to that, that when the
00:18:06 Speaker 09: ORH did the last review, they
00:18:08 Speaker 09: did look at our current base
00:18:10 Speaker 09: locations, the seven at that time
00:18:12 Speaker 09: that existed, and they felt that
00:18:13 Speaker 09: they were the best match to
00:18:15 Speaker 09: meet the demands of the county.
00:18:17 Speaker 09: It's always balancing the the urban
00:18:19 Speaker 09: versus the rural. You know, we
00:18:20 Speaker 09: try to do the best we
00:18:21 Speaker 09: can with response times. Obviously, the
00:18:22 Speaker 09: more resources you put in an
00:18:24 Speaker 09: urban area, the larger impact. But
00:18:26 Speaker 09: you still have to balance that
00:18:28 Speaker 09: out with the extended response times.
00:18:29 Speaker 09: So, the urban areas generally do
00:18:31 Speaker 09: have a better response time. But
00:18:32 Speaker 09: I use that analogy: if it
00:18:34 Speaker 09: takes you 15 minutes to get
00:18:36 Speaker 09: a bag of milk, it probably
00:18:40 Speaker 01: takes 15 minutes to get an
00:18:42 Speaker 01: ambulance. Like we're in the main
00:18:45 Speaker 01: towns. So, but ORH will be
00:18:47 Speaker 01: looking at that as a part
00:18:53 Speaker 01: of this, as far as base
00:18:54 Speaker 01: locations, and to be able to
00:18:56 Speaker 01: balance that need of call volume,
00:19:04 Speaker 01: you know, the density versus the
00:19:06 Speaker 01: rural, and try to balance that
00:19:12 Speaker 01: out. Okay, thank you. Nothing further
00:19:14 Speaker 01: from the deputy Cao. Okay, other
00:19:15 Speaker 01: comments from around the committee, the
00:19:17 Speaker 10: whole table. Okay, all right then.
00:19:32 Speaker 01: I'm seeing no further discussion, so
00:19:35 Speaker 01: I'll call the vote. All those
00:19:37 Speaker 01: in favor. Okay, and those opposed.
00:19:40 Speaker 01: Okay, Madam Clerk, did you want
00:19:43 Speaker 01: to take a moment just to
00:19:45 Speaker 01: count? Okay, let me just call
00:19:47 Speaker 01: those two votes again, so the
00:19:50 Speaker 01: clerk can take a tally. All
00:19:52 Speaker 01: those in favor, and those opposed.
00:19:55 Speaker 01: Okay, so that motion is lost.
00:19:56 Speaker 01: Thank you very much for the
00:19:58 Speaker 01: the thoughtful conversation that that has
00:20:01 Speaker 01: gone on around this. See, CEO,
00:20:03 Speaker 01: what I hear is that the
00:20:06 Speaker 01: work is already continue is already
00:20:08 Speaker 01: in progress about looking at this
00:20:10 Speaker 01: this analysis, and we've heard from
00:20:12 Speaker 01: Director McNab as well, and and
00:20:13 Speaker 01: that is having conversations with the
00:20:15 Speaker 01: lower tiers along the way that
00:20:17 Speaker 01: that you're already engaged. in those
00:20:19 Speaker 01: conversations, so that kind of work
00:20:21 Speaker 01: does not stop just because this
00:20:23 Speaker 01: motion is defeated. Okay, and the
00:20:26 Speaker 01: CEO is concurring that, and certainly
00:20:29 Speaker 01: in my lifetime, sitting here in
00:20:31 Speaker 01: the warden's chair, working with the
00:20:33 Speaker 01: CEO and the deputy CEO, we
00:20:35 Speaker 01: have had we've have been able
00:20:37 Speaker 01: to facilitate conversations when two or
00:20:39 Speaker 01: more municipalities are involved on a
00:20:42 Speaker 01: particular topic. It is very fruitful
00:20:44 Speaker 01: and very helpful. So we remain
00:20:45 Speaker 01: here, and and part of that
00:20:47 Speaker 01: that process. when the lower tier
00:20:50 Speaker 01: municipalities have had their conversations or
00:20:54 Speaker 01: have started their conversations together. At
00:20:55 Speaker 01: some point in time, it may
00:20:56 Speaker 01: be, especially because the topic of
00:20:58 Speaker 01: paramedics is involved in this, that
00:21:00 Speaker 01: we will remain ready and and
00:21:01 Speaker 01: listen to the lower tiers that
00:21:06 Speaker 01: are involved on when they may
00:21:10 Speaker 01: wish to have some sort of
00:21:11 Speaker 01: coordinated conversation where the county would
00:21:13 Speaker 01: participate as well. Okay, all right.
00:21:15 Speaker 01: So let's move on to our
00:21:16 Speaker 01: delegation. This morning, we are going
00:21:20 Speaker 01: to hear the annual report and
00:21:22 Speaker 01: update from the Nuclear Innovation Institute.
00:21:24 Speaker 01: So, with that, I would like
00:21:29 Speaker 01: to welcome President Lythorn up to
00:21:31 Speaker 01: the lectern. Good to see you
00:21:32 Speaker 01: here, and we always look forward
00:21:33 Speaker 01: to hearing the the update from
00:21:34 Speaker 01: you because it's always very exciting.
00:21:36 Speaker 01: There's always been lots that's been
00:21:37 Speaker 01: happening over the year. So, welcome.
00:21:39 Speaker 01: And are you operating your slides?
00:21:40 Speaker 01: Or okay, so you're good for
00:21:40 Speaker 01: that. Excellent. The floor is yours.
00:21:42 Speaker 01: Great. Thank you so much, Madam
00:21:44 Speaker 01: Warden, and good to see you.
00:21:46 Speaker 01: Good to see all of all
00:21:47 Speaker 01: of the councilors in the room.
00:21:48 Speaker 01: And we're so grateful, the Nuclear
00:21:50 Speaker 01: Innovations team, for the relationships that
00:21:53 Speaker 11: we have with each of you.
00:21:56 Speaker 11: So, thanks for allowing me to
00:21:58 Speaker 11: come today and give you a
00:22:00 Speaker 11: bit of an update. This is
00:22:03 Speaker 11: actually a reflection from our 2025
00:22:05 Speaker 11: annual report, but a little bit
00:22:07 Speaker 11: of insight into where we're heading
00:22:09 Speaker 11: this year. Which I remind the
00:22:10 Speaker 11: team, we're halfway through the year,
00:22:11 Speaker 11: so lots of really good work
00:22:12 Speaker 11: on the way. Our 2025 annual
00:22:13 Speaker 11: report really celebrates building our strength
00:22:15 Speaker 11: at home, building our strength here
00:22:17 Speaker 11: in rural Ontario, building strength in
00:22:19 Speaker 11: across Ontario, but for Canada, you
00:22:21 Speaker 11: know, lifting up our nation, being
00:22:23 Speaker 11: proud Canadians as we all are,
00:22:24 Speaker 11: and we're seeing that proof. I'm
00:22:25 Speaker 11: going to talk a little bit
00:22:28 Speaker 11: more about that later in the
00:22:30 Speaker 11: presentation. But some of the work
00:22:31 Speaker 11: that we're doing at the NII
00:22:34 Speaker 11: is being received through federal policy
00:22:36 Speaker 11: discussion. It is being recognized at
00:22:37 Speaker 11: a national level. We are having
00:22:39 Speaker 11: outreach, you. know, from places like
00:22:39 Speaker 11: Sask Power saying, "Hey, how are
00:22:42 Speaker 11: you doing that in your rural
00:22:44 Speaker 11: context in your rural region, building
00:22:48 Speaker 11: this ecosystem?" And so that excitement
00:22:50 Speaker 11: for this, and it aligns well
00:22:52 Speaker 11: with our NII vision of a
00:22:53 Speaker 11: Canadian landscape that celebrates nuclear. We're
00:22:54 Speaker 11: starting to to have more of
00:22:58 Speaker 11: that discussion and be recognized. So
00:22:59 Speaker 11: something for all of us to
00:23:01 Speaker 11: be really proud of, and in
00:23:05 Speaker 11: particular as rural Ontarians, you know,
00:23:07 Speaker 11: lifting up that that flag and
00:23:10 Speaker 11: and being proud. So as a
00:23:12 Speaker 11: you know level set, the NAI
00:23:13 Speaker 11: is a member-based not-for-profit, so we're
00:23:15 Speaker 11: grateful every day and very collaborative
00:23:16 Speaker 11: with our founding members: so Bruce
00:23:18 Speaker 11: Power, BWXT, Cameco, CanDo Energy, YesFox,
00:23:21 Speaker 11: and Canetrics. And we also work
00:23:22 Speaker 11: very closely with the Power Workers
00:23:24 Speaker 11: Union and the Town of Saugeen
00:23:26 Speaker 11: Shores. James Skanak, as our board
00:23:28 Speaker 11: chair, has been endlessly, tirelessly helping
00:23:28 Speaker 11: us move all of these files
00:23:31 Speaker 11: forward, and we're really, really proud
00:23:32 Speaker 11: of the work. And it's been
00:23:34 Speaker 11: such a career privilege, quite frankly,
00:23:36 Speaker 11: to work so closely with James.
00:23:37 Speaker 11: and learn from him, and by
00:23:39 Speaker 11: positioning us the way that we
00:23:40 Speaker 11: have as a team, we're really
00:23:42 Speaker 11: driving this innovation forward. In particular,
00:23:45 Speaker 11: with sector transformation projects, and I'm
00:23:47 Speaker 11: going to talk a little bit
00:23:49 Speaker 11: about that. Before I do go
00:23:50 Speaker 11: further, I do want to say,
00:23:52 Speaker 11: as part of this this slide,
00:23:53 Speaker 11: and we think about 26 and
00:23:55 Speaker 11: this momentum. If you've caught in
00:23:57 Speaker 11: the news last week or earlier
00:23:59 Speaker 11: this week, I guess it was
00:24:00 Speaker 11: Bruce Power brought Unit Three back
00:24:02 Speaker 11: online seven months ahead of schedule,
00:24:04 Speaker 11: saving ratepayers 150 million dollars. Pays
00:24:06 Speaker 11: 150 million dollars throughout the province
00:24:07 Speaker 11: of Ontario, and so when we
00:24:11 Speaker 11: talk about on time and on
00:24:13 Speaker 11: budget, I remind Minister Leche at
00:24:14 Speaker 11: the NII we're in the business
00:24:15 Speaker 11: of ahead of schedule and under
00:24:18 Speaker 11: budget, and that's I mean music
00:24:20 Speaker 11: to ears as well, right? So
00:24:21 Speaker 11: it's it's quite an exciting time.
00:24:22 Speaker 11: We have this tremendous momentum as
00:24:24 Speaker 11: a sector. We've got this national
00:24:25 Speaker 11: reach, and so quite frankly, the
00:24:26 Speaker 11: sky's the limit. We're very excited
00:24:29 Speaker 11: about the future. So reflecting on
00:24:31 Speaker 11: 2025, there's a few numbers here,
00:24:33 Speaker 11: and if you have a look
00:24:35 Speaker 11: at our annual report. which is
00:24:36 Speaker 11: available online. There's more metrics throughout
00:24:37 Speaker 11: the report, but in particular, when
00:24:40 Speaker 11: I look at some of these
00:24:41 Speaker 11: numbers, I do want to thank
00:24:43 Speaker 11: the County of Grey and your
00:24:45 Speaker 11: member municipalities for your engagement. And
00:24:46 Speaker 11: in particular, I'll call out with
00:24:47 Speaker 11: the Community Resilience Strategy. I know
00:24:49 Speaker 11: that Grey County and partners within
00:24:51 Speaker 11: the county were very engaged in
00:24:53 Speaker 11: that work under the leadership of
00:24:54 Speaker 11: Kate McKinnon at the Nuclear Innovation
00:24:56 Speaker 11: Institute, and it's something that we're
00:24:59 Speaker 11: very proud of. Last year, we
00:25:01 Speaker 11: hosted the Built to Lead event
00:25:03 Speaker 11: at our campus building, but this
00:25:06 Speaker 11: year we. hosted it at Sydenham
00:25:10 Speaker 11: Campus, and so I did want
00:25:11 Speaker 11: to say thank you again to
00:25:12 Speaker 11: Gray County and Savannah in particular,
00:25:14 Speaker 11: and her team have been real
00:25:15 Speaker 11: champions with us on this work,
00:25:16 Speaker 11: and and the collaboration is is
00:25:18 Speaker 11: helping us show and demonstrate this
00:25:20 Speaker 11: success and this reach for
00:25:22 Speaker 11: children and youth and other parties
00:25:24 Speaker 11: that might be engaged and curious
00:25:26 Speaker 11: about nuclear and supporting that workforce
00:25:28 Speaker 11: development. So, so with that, sector
00:25:31 Speaker 11: transformation. So I'm going to spend
00:25:32 Speaker 11: a couple minutes telling you about
00:25:34 Speaker 11: some of the. work we did
00:25:35 Speaker 11: last year, and I remind myself,
00:25:37 Speaker 11: you know, the projects we're doing
00:25:41 Speaker 11: now. I'll talk about next year,
00:25:41 Speaker 11: but right now we are working
00:25:43 Speaker 11: on some really incredible sector transformation
00:25:46 Speaker 11: projects around computer vision and some
00:25:47 Speaker 11: tooling and robotics. So, lots of
00:25:49 Speaker 11: really tangible things happening. But in
00:25:50 Speaker 11: addition to some of those those
00:25:52 Speaker 11: projects that require a little bit
00:25:53 Speaker 11: more investment, we're doing some of
00:25:54 Speaker 11: these projects through a program called
00:25:55 Speaker 11: Kaizen for Nuclear, and this is
00:25:57 Speaker 11: looking at that operational excellence, that
00:25:59 Speaker 11: continuous improvement. and so you know
00:26:00 Speaker 11: you see kind of four things
00:26:01 Speaker 11: here. History docket is a is
00:26:02 Speaker 11: a process that happens between our
00:26:04 Speaker 11: founding members and Bruce Power. Everybody
00:26:06 Speaker 11: sort of came to the table
00:26:07 Speaker 11: and said, "Hey, this thing is
00:26:11 Speaker 11: this process is just added and
00:26:13 Speaker 11: added and added." And I mean,
00:26:14 Speaker 11: we can all sort of reflect
00:26:16 Speaker 11: on when this happens in our
00:26:18 Speaker 11: own lives, and you know these
00:26:19 Speaker 11: processes get wonky. But when you
00:26:20 Speaker 11: when you scale back and look
00:26:22 Speaker 11: at it, and if you do
00:26:23 Speaker 11: it through this Kaizen for nuclear
00:26:25 Speaker 11: lens, in our case, it's about
00:26:29 Speaker 11: unpacking that process, finding where there's
00:26:31 Speaker 11: gaps or where there's waste, wasted
00:26:33 Speaker 11: time. wasted effort. Repurposing that, and
00:26:35 Speaker 11: now we're saving time. And when
00:26:37 Speaker 11: we are saving time, we're saving
00:26:38 Speaker 11: money. And so, through these four
00:26:40 Speaker 11: examples, it's just a demonstration
00:26:42 Speaker 11: of some of the work that
00:26:46 Speaker 11: we have done that has proven
00:26:48 Speaker 11: to save that time and money
00:26:49 Speaker 11: for our founding members. Which is
00:26:51 Speaker 11: again the collaboration and the efficiency
00:26:52 Speaker 11: found. It's quite exciting. We also
00:26:54 Speaker 11: had an opportunity last year to
00:26:55 Speaker 11: host the Advanced Advanced Nuclear Research
00:26:56 Speaker 11: Center, which is based at Strathclyde
00:26:57 Speaker 11: University in Scotland. They have a
00:26:59 Speaker 11: research City in Scotland, they have
00:27:01 Speaker 11: a researcher that came over and
00:27:03 Speaker 11: spoke with us about a new
00:27:04 Speaker 11: technology using light and artificial intelligence
00:27:06 Speaker 11: to inspect concrete. And this this
00:27:07 Speaker 11: prototype, this this research that they
00:27:09 Speaker 11: brought over to share, could find
00:27:10 Speaker 11: cracks as small as 0.1 millimeters.
00:27:13 Speaker 11: So it was sort of this
00:27:15 Speaker 11: interesting piece. And the reason why
00:27:15 Speaker 11: I picked this innovation day to
00:27:18 Speaker 11: share with you is that we
00:27:19 Speaker 11: did invite Grey County, and Grey
00:27:21 Speaker 11: County did have representation at our
00:27:23 Speaker 11: innovation day. And with that, you
00:27:25 Speaker 11: know, this is the type of
00:27:27 Speaker 11: work that as we are doing
00:27:28 Speaker 11: it, when I think with a
00:27:29 Speaker 11: municipal lens, or why does this
00:27:31 Speaker 11: matter to you? We have lots
00:27:33 Speaker 11: of concrete and nuclear, and you
00:27:35 Speaker 11: have lots of concrete and municipal.
00:27:37 Speaker 11: And so, when we find efficiencies
00:27:38 Speaker 11: in some of the work we're
00:27:42 Speaker 11: doing, whether that be through tooling,
00:27:43 Speaker 11: robotics, or AI—you know, whatever the
00:27:45 Speaker 11: case might be—when we discover these
00:27:45 Speaker 11: these new pieces of tech that
00:27:47 Speaker 11: we can bring into the nuclear
00:27:50 Speaker 11: sector, we'll continue to have conversation
00:27:52 Speaker 11: with you on what that might
00:27:53 Speaker 11: look like for the municipal sector,
00:27:56 Speaker 11: which I think is a is
00:27:59 Speaker 11: really interesting. And again, just recognizing
00:28:01 Speaker 11: how fast technology. and the economy
00:28:02 Speaker 11: are shifting. We're happy to do
00:28:05 Speaker 11: that and and grateful for your
00:28:08 Speaker 11: ongoing support too. So I talked
00:28:10 Speaker 11: a little bit about the built
00:28:12 Speaker 11: to lead event that happened at
00:28:13 Speaker 11: Sydenham Campus, and it was such
00:28:16 Speaker 11: a wonderful success, and that's a
00:28:18 Speaker 11: 2026 success story. But last year
00:28:20 Speaker 11: as well, we saw over 400
00:28:21 Speaker 11: students coming to that. That's an
00:28:22 Speaker 11: event for young women, grade seven
00:28:24 Speaker 11: to twelve. That's the target audience.
00:28:29 Speaker 11: Absolutely open to the public, and
00:28:30 Speaker 11: it's about bringing the skilled trade
00:28:32 Speaker 11: opportunities forward. and helping girls, young
00:28:34 Speaker 11: women, see themselves in the skilled
00:28:35 Speaker 11: trades. And so again, really exciting
00:28:38 Speaker 11: and quite, quite frankly, very impactful
00:28:40 Speaker 11: work to inspire some of these
00:28:41 Speaker 11: young women to see themselves in
00:28:42 Speaker 11: these roles. In addition, you
00:28:46 Speaker 11: know, we're we're continuing. Last year,
00:28:48 Speaker 11: we did our our Model
00:28:50 Speaker 11: UN. We did a Science Olympics
00:28:53 Speaker 11: event as well. So bringing some
00:28:55 Speaker 11: of these opportunities for our youth
00:28:58 Speaker 11: in the region. And then our
00:29:00 Speaker 11: our third sort of pillar,
00:29:03 Speaker 11: we've got the sector transfer. Pillar,
00:29:05 Speaker 11: we've got that sector transformation and
00:29:07 Speaker 11: that skilled development pillar, but then
00:29:09 Speaker 11: our industry voice, and this is
00:29:12 Speaker 11: the advocacy work, and again, working
00:29:13 Speaker 11: with Grey County very closely through
00:29:16 Speaker 11: Savannah and her team, and just
00:29:20 Speaker 11: this tremendous leadership that we're seeing
00:29:21 Speaker 11: with our municipal partners, bringing forward
00:29:23 Speaker 11: advocacy efforts, being aligned, whether that
00:29:24 Speaker 11: be through the Southwestern Ontario Isotope
00:29:26 Speaker 11: Coalition, and next week we have
00:29:29 Speaker 11: an opportunity through the SLYC to
00:29:30 Speaker 11: tour the McMaster Research Reactor, so
00:29:32 Speaker 11: that's quite exciting. So bringing these
00:29:34 Speaker 11: opportunities again, helping people understand the
00:29:35 Speaker 11: opportunity of isotope production at Bruce
00:29:40 Speaker 11: Power. How do we work together
00:29:42 Speaker 11: to build this ecosystem? And so
00:29:44 Speaker 11: that's really tremendous work underway. But
00:29:46 Speaker 11: then also through the Clean Energy
00:29:47 Speaker 11: Frontier Program, where we recognize messaging
00:29:49 Speaker 11: alignment, support as you prepare to
00:29:52 Speaker 11: go to AML as an
00:29:54 Speaker 11: example. The Nuclear Innovation Institute team,
00:29:57 Speaker 11: we're ready to help you if
00:30:00 Speaker 11: you have questions about nuclear or
00:30:02 Speaker 11: growth projections. What does Bruce C
00:30:06 Speaker 11: look like? We've done some of
00:30:09 Speaker 11: this economic impact research on these
00:30:11 Speaker 11: initiatives, so we have lots of
00:30:13 Speaker 11: data to share with you, and
00:30:15 Speaker 11: we'll continue to do that. Another
00:30:17 Speaker 11: initiative through our Industry Voice portfolio
00:30:20 Speaker 11: is the Green Ribbon Panel, and
00:30:23 Speaker 11: the Green Ribbon Panel, the
00:30:24 Speaker 11: NII serves as a secretariat to
00:30:26 Speaker 11: the Green Ribbon Panel, and this
00:30:28 Speaker 11: group is a collection of labor
00:30:31 Speaker 11: union groups, industry representatives, other strategic
00:30:33 Speaker 11: partners that are really coming together.
00:30:35 Speaker 11: to ensure the energy security and
00:30:37 Speaker 11: the economic resiliency that nuclear provides
00:30:39 Speaker 11: for Canada. We celebrate the 95%
00:30:40 Speaker 11: commitment spend, 95% spend in Canada
00:30:42 Speaker 11: that Bruce Power has put forward,
00:30:44 Speaker 11: and that's a very deliberate celebration
00:30:46 Speaker 11: of the domestic supply chain for
00:30:48 Speaker 11: our nuclear sector. So, bringing this
00:30:50 Speaker 11: messaging forward, last year the Green
00:30:51 Speaker 11: Ribbon Panel attended a roundtable, managed,
00:30:52 Speaker 11: coordinated a roundtable in Washington. We
00:30:53 Speaker 11: did again this year attend a
00:30:55 Speaker 11: roundtable in Washington, but then also
00:30:57 Speaker 11: some roundtable discussions in Ottawa and
00:30:58 Speaker 11: in Toronto, which are are very
00:31:00 Speaker 11: fruitful. We are engaging with ministers
00:31:03 Speaker 11: at a provincial and a federal
00:31:04 Speaker 11: level, and when I tie back
00:31:06 Speaker 11: to my very first slide of
00:31:09 Speaker 11: the ant holding up the maple
00:31:13 Speaker 11: leaf, this work's being done here
00:31:14 Speaker 11: in rural Ontario and being celebrated
00:31:16 Speaker 11: on the stage in Ottawa, and
00:31:17 Speaker 11: that I think is something for
00:31:19 Speaker 11: I know it's something for all
00:31:21 Speaker 11: of us to be proud of.
00:31:22 Speaker 11: But then when we see things
00:31:23 Speaker 11: like the federal budget, or we
00:31:27 Speaker 11: see these responses, or we engage,
00:31:28 Speaker 11: we did submit a letter to
00:31:30 Speaker 11: Prime Minister Carney, indicating our 100-day
00:31:31 Speaker 11: action plan and and really what
00:31:32 Speaker 11: we need as a sector, how
00:31:34 Speaker 11: we can work together to build
00:31:36 Speaker 11: in Canada. This work is is
00:31:38 Speaker 11: critically important, and certainly it's it's
00:31:39 Speaker 11: proving to be very successful. So
00:31:41 Speaker 11: we're really proud of the Green
00:31:42 Speaker 11: Ribbon Panel. There will be a
00:31:44 Speaker 11: new campaign launched in the coming
00:31:45 Speaker 11: coming weeks, in a couple of
00:31:46 Speaker 11: weeks. So you can stay tuned
00:31:47 Speaker 11: through the Green Ribbon Panel. but
00:31:49 Speaker 11: certainly through the Nuclear Innovation Institute
00:31:50 Speaker 11: as well. Okay, just wrapping up
00:31:53 Speaker 11: here. We do have our annual
00:31:55 Speaker 11: conference coming up, so I would
00:31:56 Speaker 11: like to invite you to join
00:31:59 Speaker 11: us. Registration is now open. It'll
00:32:01 Speaker 11: be happening in Port Algonquin at
00:32:02 Speaker 11: the Unifor Center on October 8th
00:32:04 Speaker 11: and 9th. We've got a couple
00:32:06 Speaker 11: of really cool keynote speakers lined
00:32:07 Speaker 01: up. We do have a reception
00:32:10 Speaker 01: on the Thursday evening, so if
00:32:12 Speaker 01: you can only join us for
00:32:13 Speaker 01: part of it, please do. If
00:32:16 Speaker 01: you can join us for the
00:32:17 Speaker 01: whole thing, we would love to
00:32:19 Speaker 01: have you. And I'm really looking
00:32:25 Speaker 01: forward to the conference. It certainly
00:32:26 Speaker 01: is a highlight. Okay, with that,
00:32:30 Speaker 06: Madam Warden, I will pause, but
00:32:34 Speaker 06: I'm happy to answer any questions.
00:32:39 Speaker 06: Thank you very much. And just
00:32:40 Speaker 06: as a note for the agenda
00:32:42 Speaker 06: for the Clean Energy Frontier, it
00:32:44 Speaker 06: starts later in the day on
00:32:47 Speaker 06: the Thursday, correct? Because it is
00:32:50 Speaker 06: a county day. But if if
00:32:51 Speaker 06: our agendas align nicely and it's
00:32:53 Speaker 06: not too far to carry on
00:32:57 Speaker 06: to come over to you, okay.
00:32:59 Speaker 06: So with that, I'll put it
00:33:03 Speaker 06: out in case there are any
00:33:05 Speaker 06: questions or comments from committee. The
00:33:06 Speaker 06: whole members. Okay. Oh, I'm going
00:33:10 Speaker 06: to go to Councilor Body first.
00:33:12 Speaker 06: Somebody better ask a question. Jessica
00:33:19 Speaker 06: had the pleasure of attending the
00:33:21 Speaker 06: nuclear conference in Ottawa a few
00:33:22 Speaker 06: weeks ago, and I was talking
00:33:25 Speaker 06: to an economist—I can't think of
00:33:29 Speaker 06: his name—who was talking about what
00:33:31 Speaker 06: the provinces recognizing for need and.
00:33:34 Speaker 06: ISO, and he thinks that even
00:33:36 Speaker 06: the province is low with AI
00:33:38 Speaker 06: with all the demands that are
00:33:44 Speaker 11: coming. Without even just looking at
00:33:47 Speaker 11: the economic what's coming, not not
00:33:49 Speaker 11: even considering the clean energy side
00:33:50 Speaker 11: of it, Bruce Power, Bruce C
00:33:51 Speaker 11: is going to be an absolute
00:33:53 Speaker 11: need. He said the Ontario Pump
00:33:55 Speaker 11: Storage is going to be an
00:33:56 Speaker 11: absolute need. Certainly, transmission lines are
00:33:57 Speaker 11: going to be important. The Canadian
00:33:59 Speaker 11: government talked about wanting to be
00:34:00 Speaker 11: a superpower, a nuclear superpower, clean
00:34:03 Speaker 11: energy superpower. The provinces certainly put
00:34:05 Speaker 11: their eggs into that basket. What's
00:34:06 Speaker 11: the impact economically going to be?
00:34:07 Speaker 11: Without getting into too much detail,
00:34:08 Speaker 11: so for the whole region. True,
00:34:11 Speaker 11: Madam Warden, although. True, Madam Ward,
00:34:13 Speaker 11: and although I appreciate the question,
00:34:15 Speaker 11: Councillor Body, I'm hesitant to. Well,
00:34:17 Speaker 11: I'm certainly not going to give
00:34:19 Speaker 11: you a figure for a data
00:34:20 Speaker 11: point, but I'm committed to follow
00:34:22 Speaker 11: up on that. We have done
00:34:24 Speaker 11: that economic impact analysis on Bruce
00:34:26 Speaker 11: C, and so we do have
00:34:27 Speaker 11: lots of data available on what
00:34:29 Speaker 11: that new build could look like
00:34:31 Speaker 11: for our region. Now, you name
00:34:33 Speaker 11: the Ontario Pump Storage. I mean,
00:34:34 Speaker 11: one of the things that we
00:34:37 Speaker 11: talk about at the NII is
00:34:40 Speaker 11: we remind people that 60% of
00:34:42 Speaker 11: the grid is nuclear, 30% coming
00:34:44 Speaker 11: from Bruce County. Um, so 30%
00:34:47 Speaker 11: of Ontario's Um. So, thirty percent
00:34:48 Speaker 11: of Ontario's power is coming from
00:34:51 Speaker 11: Bruce Power, and I think that
00:34:52 Speaker 11: that should not be forgotten or
00:34:55 Speaker 11: lost. And the demand, and to
00:34:56 Speaker 11: your point on the AI data
00:34:58 Speaker 11: center piece, we did release a
00:34:59 Speaker 11: report in 2025. You can find
00:35:01 Speaker 11: that online too. Spoiler alert: We're
00:35:03 Speaker 11: going to need more nuclear, right?
00:35:04 Speaker 11: Like that's ultimately where we're going
00:35:05 Speaker 11: with that research. And and as
00:35:08 Speaker 11: all of these things come online
00:35:11 Speaker 11: and the growth of Ontario, the
00:35:12 Speaker 11: projections through the ISO, the Independent
00:35:14 Speaker 11: Electricity Systems Operator, their projections and
00:35:15 Speaker 11: the demand. is significantly set out,
00:35:17 Speaker 11: and so the province is is
00:35:19 Speaker 11: committed. And the work that we
00:35:21 Speaker 11: do with Minister Lete, he has
00:35:23 Speaker 11: been very clear that the future
00:35:24 Speaker 11: is nuclear and in Ontario. And
00:35:28 Speaker 11: so we're quite excited, but it
00:35:29 Speaker 11: will take all of the tools
00:35:31 Speaker 11: in the toolbox. It will. And
00:35:32 Speaker 11: so when you go on OntarioGridWatch.ca
00:35:34 Speaker 11: and you can see live time,
00:35:36 Speaker 11: you know how what's happening right
00:35:38 Speaker 11: now on our grid. You'll see
00:35:40 Speaker 11: wind and solar. You'll see hydroelectric.
00:35:41 Speaker 11: You'll see lots of nuclear. You'll
00:35:43 Speaker 11: see some. Clear. You'll see some
00:35:47 Speaker 01: gas, right? Like there are these
00:35:49 Speaker 01: this mix that's going to take,
00:35:50 Speaker 01: and so I think that all
00:35:53 Speaker 01: of us should be quite reflective
00:35:57 Speaker 01: when we look forward on the
00:35:59 Speaker 12: opportunity and the economic impact and
00:36:02 Speaker 12: those studies that are shaping up
00:36:03 Speaker 12: are helping us make decisions, but
00:36:07 Speaker 12: also should be exciting small business
00:36:09 Speaker 12: owners. And when I put my
00:36:13 Speaker 12: economic development hat on, I think
00:36:21 Speaker 11: about what that means for our
00:36:24 Speaker 11: local economy and the the restaurants
00:36:25 Speaker 11: and the businesses and the entrepreneurs
00:36:28 Speaker 11: and the people that are standing
00:36:30 Speaker 11: up this work. There's going to
00:36:31 Speaker 11: be tremendous growth in the economy,
00:36:34 Speaker 11: and it's it's quite exciting, and
00:36:36 Speaker 11: it's for the long for the
00:36:38 Speaker 11: long haul too. So, thank you.
00:36:40 Speaker 11: We'll go to Councillor Ketner, and
00:36:43 Speaker 11: then over to Councillor Greg. Thank
00:36:44 Speaker 11: you. And I I've a tough
00:36:47 Speaker 11: question. I think sometimes looking at
00:36:49 Speaker 11: the number of outages right in
00:36:51 Speaker 11: Sauguenoors and Picardine, and we've had
00:36:52 Speaker 11: a few in Weford recently. I
00:36:54 Speaker 11: know that we're building out. our
00:36:57 Speaker 11: nuclear capacity in grand style. Are
00:36:59 Speaker 11: is the municipal infrastructure in Gray
00:37:00 Speaker 11: County keeping pace? Through Madam Warden,
00:37:02 Speaker 11: I won't be able to answer
00:37:04 Speaker 11: that question. When I think about
00:37:05 Speaker 11: what's happening here on the infrastructure
00:37:08 Speaker 11: side, I mean Bruce Power is
00:37:09 Speaker 11: in the business of creating clean
00:37:11 Speaker 11: energy and selling it to the
00:37:12 Speaker 11: grid and and through the ISO,
00:37:14 Speaker 11: the Independent Electricity Systems Operator, and
00:37:16 Speaker 11: then that electricity is hitting our
00:37:18 Speaker 11: our local distribution networks. And so
00:37:20 Speaker 11: there's so many players down the
00:37:22 Speaker 11: road on who is responsible to
00:37:24 Speaker 11: make sure that that power is
00:37:25 Speaker 11: powering our economy. And so I
00:37:27 Speaker 11: guess it would depend on. I
00:37:29 Speaker 11: think that's a discussion with the
00:37:30 Speaker 11: with your local distribution line, whether
00:37:31 Speaker 11: that's Hydro One or or you
00:37:32 Speaker 11: know West Area or with Power
00:37:32 Speaker 11: or whoever that may be, on
00:37:34 Speaker 11: what the needs or what their
00:37:39 Speaker 11: projections might be. so it's sort
00:37:40 Speaker 11: of it's a journey from
00:37:42 Speaker 11: producing it at Bruce Power, getting
00:37:45 Speaker 01: it to the Ontario grid, on
00:37:46 Speaker 01: the lines out, and then when
00:37:48 Speaker 01: it hits your communities, I think
00:37:50 Speaker 01: that's a better conversation to have
00:37:51 Speaker 01: with them. But a very critical
00:37:54 Speaker 01: conversation too, when we think about,
00:37:56 Speaker 01: I mean, aging infrastructure that you
00:37:57 Speaker 01: are all responsible for as
00:37:59 Speaker 01: as municipal government. You know, the
00:38:02 Speaker 01: pipes in the ground. What about
00:38:04 Speaker 01: all of those lines in? And
00:38:05 Speaker 01: so I don't have an answer
00:38:08 Speaker 01: for you, but I do again.
00:38:10 Speaker 01: I thank you for the question
00:38:12 Speaker 01: because I think that it's something
00:38:14 Speaker 01: for all of us to be.
00:38:17 Speaker 01: reflective on as we're projecting the
00:38:20 Speaker 01: the growth as well. Okay, thank
00:38:22 Speaker 01: you, and we appreciate that you
00:38:23 Speaker 01: are representing the Nuclear Innovation Institute,
00:38:24 Speaker 02: not Bruce Power. So that that's
00:38:27 Speaker 02: okay if you say I don't
00:38:29 Speaker 02: quite have that that information. And
00:38:34 Speaker 02: it certainly is the reason why
00:38:37 Speaker 02: we work together as the Clean
00:38:41 Speaker 02: Energy Frontier. The ongoing discussions that
00:38:44 Speaker 02: go back and forth, the representation
00:38:46 Speaker 02: we have from our senior staff
00:38:48 Speaker 02: participating in those conversations, like Director
00:38:50 Speaker 02: Myers, to talk. about that economic
00:38:53 Speaker 02: impact and to always keep those
00:38:56 Speaker 02: numbers in front of us and
00:38:57 Speaker 02: and updating it's it's it's a
00:38:59 Speaker 02: a year long perspective rather than
00:39:01 Speaker 02: just a a one one snapshot
00:39:02 Speaker 02: at this point in time, so
00:39:04 Speaker 02: we'll go over to Councilor Gray.
00:39:06 Speaker 02: Thank you for the presentation and
00:39:09 Speaker 02: update this afternoon, Jessica. You led
00:39:11 Speaker 02: with building our strength at home,
00:39:15 Speaker 02: and I just want to take
00:39:16 Speaker 02: a moment and thank you and
00:39:18 Speaker 02: the Institute on the investment you
00:39:19 Speaker 02: make both with staffing and monetary.
00:39:21 Speaker 02: dollars, with investing into high school
00:39:24 Speaker 02: programs and the college to support
00:39:26 Speaker 02: the future of the build out
00:39:28 Speaker 02: of the nuclear industry in the
00:39:30 Speaker 02: area. We have such a great
00:39:33 Speaker 02: area here, but we certainly all
00:39:34 Speaker 02: see it in the various sizes
00:39:36 Speaker 02: of organizations. You can have great
00:39:38 Speaker 02: candidates come in, but often when
00:39:43 Speaker 02: they're not from the area, they
00:39:46 Speaker 13: may leave. for a variety of
00:39:47 Speaker 13: other reasons. So, to see the
00:39:50 Speaker 13: investment that you're making at home
00:39:51 Speaker 13: in our schools and in the
00:39:54 Speaker 13: college to build and support great
00:39:56 Speaker 13: jobs with people who are born
00:39:59 Speaker 13: here, grew up here, and can
00:40:01 Speaker 13: build families and enhance communities here,
00:40:03 Speaker 13: I just want to thank you
00:40:05 Speaker 13: for that investment because it does
00:40:08 Speaker 13: go a long way. You see
00:40:10 Speaker 13: that in today's labor pool. It's
00:40:12 Speaker 13: great when you hire a great
00:40:14 Speaker 13: employee, but it hurts when you
00:40:15 Speaker 13: lose that. But it it hurts
00:40:18 Speaker 13: when you lose that great employee,
00:40:22 Speaker 13: so it's extra special when that
00:40:25 Speaker 13: great employee is a byproduct of
00:40:26 Speaker 13: the local area, and there's more
00:40:28 Speaker 13: security knowing that they're more likely
00:40:29 Speaker 11: to stay with the organization. So,
00:40:32 Speaker 11: thanks for that investment. Thank you,
00:40:35 Speaker 11: other. Oh, we'll go to Councilor
00:40:37 Speaker 11: Mackey. Thank you, Warden. Good morning,
00:40:39 Speaker 11: County Council. Thanks, Jessica. You're a
00:40:41 Speaker 11: great ambassador for the area and
00:40:42 Speaker 11: for the nuclear business. Can you
00:40:45 Speaker 11: just talk a little bit? about
00:40:47 Speaker 11: the small modular reactors and how
00:40:48 Speaker 11: they may, when they may come
00:40:50 Speaker 11: into play? I mean, with the
00:40:51 Speaker 11: the resource sector being opened up
00:40:53 Speaker 11: in northern Ontario and throughout throughout
00:40:54 Speaker 11: Canada, I think the reliance on
00:40:56 Speaker 11: those. The sooner we can get
00:40:59 Speaker 11: those operational, the better we are.
00:41:02 Speaker 11: It eliminates transmission lines to some
00:41:03 Speaker 11: extent. So, can you just speak
00:41:05 Speaker 11: about that whole new business, please?
00:41:07 Speaker 11: Thanks. Through you, Madam Warden. Thank
00:41:09 Speaker 11: you. Morden. Thank you, Councillor Mackey.
00:41:10 Speaker 11: Good to see you again. With
00:41:12 Speaker 11: regards to the SMRs, the Small
00:41:14 Speaker 11: Modular Reactors, so there is a
00:41:16 Speaker 11: small SMR being built through OPG
00:41:17 Speaker 11: on east of Toronto, and I
00:41:19 Speaker 11: would say that the world's watching
00:41:20 Speaker 11: that. Quite frankly, the world, right?
00:41:21 Speaker 11: I literally mean that the world,
00:41:22 Speaker 11: the nuclear countries, like we are
00:41:23 Speaker 11: watching that build to see how
00:41:25 Speaker 11: it lands on time and on
00:41:27 Speaker 11: budget, right? Like these are things
00:41:29 Speaker 11: that that people are thinking. What's
00:41:31 Speaker 11: that cost for that out? That
00:41:32 Speaker 11: megawatt out? the door. What's you
00:41:34 Speaker 11: know what does that total cost
00:41:36 Speaker 11: look like? What's the efficiency in
00:41:38 Speaker 11: building a small modular reactor? And
00:41:39 Speaker 11: I think that the the there's
00:41:40 Speaker 11: an opportunity I would say to
00:41:41 Speaker 11: do further research and and further
00:41:43 Speaker 11: case study into you know that
00:41:45 Speaker 11: build and how it goes. And
00:41:47 Speaker 11: then what is the the best
00:41:49 Speaker 11: function or the best appropriate use
00:41:50 Speaker 11: of that SMR? So there's lots
00:41:52 Speaker 11: of discussion. I was at an
00:41:53 Speaker 11: event last year near Niagara Falls,
00:41:55 Speaker 11: and I think it was near
00:41:57 Speaker 11: Griesby, and there was an elected
00:41:59 Speaker 11: official that said, hey. what about
00:42:01 Speaker 11: an SMR and a business park?"
00:42:03 Speaker 11: And I was like, "Well, we're
00:42:05 Speaker 11: not there yet, right? Like, this
00:42:07 Speaker 11: isn't something we just drive in
00:42:08 Speaker 11: and drop down and turn on.
00:42:09 Speaker 11: Like, let's." So the intricacies of
00:42:10 Speaker 11: it on, you know, licensed sites
00:42:12 Speaker 11: and the regulatory body, of course,
00:42:13 Speaker 11: like the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission
00:42:16 Speaker 11: (CNSC). And so I don't have
00:42:17 Speaker 11: those answers for you today. And
00:42:18 Speaker 11: there's probably more research out there
00:42:21 Speaker 11: that I could find and kick
00:42:22 Speaker 11: over to you. But what I,
00:42:23 Speaker 11: you know, my own self and
00:42:25 Speaker 11: our organization, we're watching right now
00:42:27 Speaker 11: to see how that builds going.
00:42:32 Speaker 11: and to see what happens at
00:42:38 Speaker 11: the end with you know on
00:42:39 Speaker 01: time and on budget. I think
00:42:42 Speaker 01: everyone's watching that. And and then
00:42:43 Speaker 01: what are the appropriate uses for
00:42:44 Speaker 01: this SMR? Is it northern communities
00:42:46 Speaker 01: to power northern community? What does
00:42:48 Speaker 01: it take for operations? What does
00:42:49 Speaker 01: the spent fuel you know look
00:42:51 Speaker 01: like? Like what are all of
00:42:53 Speaker 01: these things? Because we know with
00:42:54 Speaker 01: our Candu reactors at Bruce Power
00:42:57 Speaker 01: we've got the four in Bruce
00:42:59 Speaker 01: A and four in Bruce B,
00:43:01 Speaker 01: and and we know that very
00:43:03 Speaker 01: well, right? The large scale reactor,
00:43:05 Speaker 01: they're big boring machines, and that's
00:43:07 Speaker 01: what we want. And they've. And
00:43:10 Speaker 01: that's what we want, and they
00:43:12 Speaker 01: produce a ton of power for
00:43:14 Speaker 01: us. So we'll watch the SMRs,
00:43:15 Speaker 01: but I think that's a really
00:43:17 Speaker 01: great question, and again, really thought
00:43:20 Speaker 01: provoking on what does the future
00:43:21 Speaker 01: of that look like. We'll see.
00:43:23 Speaker 01: Okay, thank you. Any other comments,
00:43:24 Speaker 01: questions? Okay, seeing none. I'll just
00:43:26 Speaker 01: you know add, I think most
00:43:27 Speaker 01: specifically to what Councillor Greg was
00:43:28 Speaker 01: saying about the opportunities for our
00:43:30 Speaker 01: young people, our young adults, as
00:43:32 Speaker 01: well as our youth in the
00:43:33 Speaker 01: area as well. Earlier, when we
00:43:35 Speaker 01: were talking about how exciting it
00:43:37 Speaker 01: is for our current entrepreneurs and
00:43:39 Speaker 01: and what kind of economic development
00:43:42 Speaker 01: comes when such a large project
00:43:44 Speaker 01: comes into a region that's within
00:43:45 Speaker 01: reach, such as our Gray County
00:43:47 Speaker 01: part of the Clean Energy Frontier.
00:43:49 Speaker 01: I also know, as a former
00:43:50 Speaker 01: educator, how important it is to
00:43:52 Speaker 01: introduce young people to potential career
00:43:53 Speaker 01: paths very early in life, because
00:43:56 Speaker 01: it did always frustrate me as
00:43:58 Speaker 01: a high school teacher that our
00:44:01 Speaker 01: students. were coming out at age
00:44:03 Speaker 01: 18 with only a small sliver
00:44:04 Speaker 01: of knowledge about the the professions
00:44:06 Speaker 01: that were out there, you know,
00:44:08 Speaker 01: just what had touched their lives
00:44:09 Speaker 01: at that point in time. So
00:44:10 Speaker 01: to be able to put that
00:44:17 Speaker 01: nugget of thought process and to
00:44:18 Speaker 01: be able to say this is
00:44:20 Speaker 01: a place where it doesn't matter
00:44:22 Speaker 01: who you are, there there is
00:44:25 Speaker 01: a career pathway if you're interested
00:44:27 Speaker 01: in this, I think is very
00:44:29 Speaker 01: exciting. So thank you very much
00:44:31 Speaker 01: for all the Innovation Institute's work
00:44:33 Speaker 01: on that note. All right, so
00:44:35 Speaker 01: that's it. So thank you. very
00:44:37 Speaker 01: much. We appreciate you coming in
00:44:39 Speaker 01: in person, and of course, you
00:44:41 Speaker 01: provide great documentation online for people
00:44:42 Speaker 01: that want to read further. If
00:44:43 Speaker 01: members of the public are following
00:44:47 Speaker 01: along, you've got great materials at
00:44:51 Speaker 01: your website as well. Okay. So
00:44:55 Speaker 01: with that, we are going to
00:44:57 Speaker 01: move on then to items for
00:44:58 Speaker 01: separate discussions. So looking at the
00:45:00 Speaker 01: list that we have, we have
00:45:03 Speaker 01: six different items listed in the
00:45:05 Speaker 01: consent agenda. Number six. If you
00:45:07 Speaker 01: could please identify this point in
00:45:08 Speaker 01: time, any that you wish to
00:45:09 Speaker 01: have a separate discussion for. discussion,
00:45:12 Speaker 01: for okay, I'm seeing no hands
00:45:14 Speaker 01: go up, so I'll put forth
00:45:15 Speaker 01: them. The recommended motion is that
00:45:17 Speaker 01: the following consent agenda consent items
00:45:18 Speaker 01: be received, and that staff be
00:45:20 Speaker 01: authorized to take actions necessary to
00:45:23 Speaker 01: give effect to the recommendations in
00:45:25 Speaker 01: the staff reports, and that the
00:45:28 Speaker 01: correspondence be supported or received for
00:45:29 Speaker 01: information as recommended in the consent
00:45:32 Speaker 01: agenda. And all six items have
00:45:33 Speaker 01: been published duly in our agenda
00:45:35 Speaker 01: that has. been circulated, may I
00:45:36 Speaker 01: ask for a mover and a
00:45:39 Speaker 01: seconder? Moved by Councillor Mackie, seconded
00:45:46 Speaker 01: by Councillor Bourdon. Any discussion? All
00:45:47 Speaker 01: those in favor? And that motion
00:45:50 Speaker 01: is carried. Okay, we're still a
00:45:52 Speaker 01: little ahead of eleven o'clock, so
00:45:54 Speaker 01: I think it would be appropriate
00:45:58 Speaker 01: for us to continue with our
00:46:02 Speaker 01: items for direction and discussion. At
00:46:03 Speaker 01: at number seven, we're going to
00:46:10 Speaker 14: begin with item seven A, and
00:46:12 Speaker 14: then I'll be watching the clock.
00:46:14 Speaker 14: to see when we'll break during
00:46:18 Speaker 14: our section seven for a break.
00:46:22 Speaker 14: So with that, I'm going to
00:46:24 Speaker 14: ask first before I call up
00:46:26 Speaker 14: our staff members if there is
00:46:28 Speaker 14: a mover and a seconder that
00:46:30 Speaker 14: the report C A O R
00:46:32 Speaker 14: C W fifteen twenty six regarding
00:46:35 Speaker 14: the going green and gray review
00:46:37 Speaker 14: be received for information. I ask
00:46:39 Speaker 14: for mover and a seconder. Moved
00:46:41 Speaker 14: by Councillor Hutchinson, seconded by Councillor
00:46:42 Speaker 14: Kentner. It's now on the floor
00:46:45 Speaker 14: for discussion. So I'd like to
00:46:47 Speaker 14: invite both the Deputy CAO and.
00:46:49 Speaker 14: Manager Swanson up to provide background
00:46:51 Speaker 14: information. Good morning, and through you,
00:46:54 Speaker 14: Warden. Good morning, members of council.
00:46:55 Speaker 14: I will just wait. We have
00:46:58 Speaker 14: a short presentation that Linda and
00:47:00 Speaker 14: I will tag team on. Oh,
00:47:02 Speaker 14: I have to do something. That's
00:47:03 Speaker 14: dangerous. Where's IT when you need
00:47:05 Speaker 14: them? There we go. Look at
00:47:07 Speaker 14: that. Thank you, Ava. Perfect. So,
00:47:09 Speaker 14: good morning, members of Council. Through
00:47:12 Speaker 14: you, Warden, we're here today to
00:47:15 Speaker 14: present jointly the the review that's
00:47:17 Speaker 14: within your agenda package, as requested
00:47:19 Speaker 14: by Council through the budget process.
00:47:21 Speaker 14: And just to remind ourselves where
00:47:22 Speaker 14: we started from, a motion was
00:47:24 Speaker 14: passed that staff be directed to
00:47:28 Speaker 14: report, prepare a report on the
00:47:30 Speaker 14: implications of removing. modifying, or maintaining
00:47:32 Speaker 14: the actions within going green and
00:47:34 Speaker 14: grey, the consideration is part of
00:47:37 Speaker 14: the 2027 budget. So the report
00:47:39 Speaker 14: before you today is a fore
00:47:40 Speaker 14: information report. Obviously, we're in advance
00:47:44 Speaker 14: of the 2027 budget. The conversation
00:47:46 Speaker 14: that is had today will inform
00:47:47 Speaker 14: the decisions of the 2027 budget,
00:47:48 Speaker 14: and we'll touch a little bit
00:47:50 Speaker 14: on some of the options we've
00:47:52 Speaker 14: considered, which which may form the
00:47:54 Speaker 14: basis for council conversation later on
00:47:55 Speaker 14: today. But at this point in
00:47:58 Speaker 14: time, staff are. But at this
00:48:00 Speaker 14: point in time, staff have not
00:48:02 Speaker 14: put a recommendation forward. We would
00:48:03 Speaker 14: be planning on taking the balance
00:48:05 Speaker 14: of this conversation forward into the
00:48:07 Speaker 14: budget process as we go forward.
00:48:10 Speaker 14: Manager Swanson and myself will will
00:48:12 Speaker 14: take take turns at the podium
00:48:13 Speaker 14: just here as we go through
00:48:14 Speaker 14: the slide deck. So just just
00:48:16 Speaker 14: a quick overview of the Going
00:48:18 Speaker 14: Green in Gray report. So council
00:48:20 Speaker 14: approved this in 2022, April 2022,
00:48:22 Speaker 14: alongside of also declaring a climate
00:48:23 Speaker 14: emergency, and at the time. council
00:48:26 Speaker 14: asked that we actually come back
00:48:27 Speaker 14: with more aggressive targets in the
00:48:29 Speaker 14: future. And so, that review process—we
00:48:32 Speaker 14: haven't gone through that cycle of
00:48:34 Speaker 14: review process just yet, given given
00:48:36 Speaker 14: given the timing that we're at.
00:48:37 Speaker 14: And so, this report is coming
00:48:39 Speaker 14: in advance of in advance of
00:48:41 Speaker 14: coming back with a review of
00:48:43 Speaker 14: progress so far on going green
00:48:45 Speaker 14: and great. Although, obviously, there have
00:48:50 Speaker 14: been several updates that have been
00:48:52 Speaker 14: provided to council and community in
00:48:55 Speaker 14: between times. The plan itself is
00:48:56 Speaker 14: a 28-year. Itself is a 20-year
00:48:59 Speaker 14: strategy, so it's a long-term vision
00:49:03 Speaker 14: that stretches us all the way
00:49:07 Speaker 14: out to 2050, and it guides
00:49:09 Speaker 14: not only the actions and activities
00:49:11 Speaker 14: that we anticipate to take corporately
00:49:14 Speaker 14: within Great County Council. So, how
00:49:17 Speaker 14: we make adjustments to our own
00:49:19 Speaker 14: service delivery, the way in which
00:49:21 Speaker 14: we undertake our operations, the way
00:49:22 Speaker 14: in which we build infrastructure and
00:49:23 Speaker 14: maintain infrastructure with a climate lens
00:49:25 Speaker 14: or an environmental lens. But it
00:49:26 Speaker 14: also helps inform our role as
00:49:28 Speaker 14: a community stakeholder and a community
00:49:30 Speaker 14: partner as to how we partner
00:49:32 Speaker 14: with member municipalities. through climate action
00:49:33 Speaker 14: and environmental action, and how we
00:49:34 Speaker 14: support the work of community groups
00:49:38 Speaker 14: and non-profit agencies across the county.
00:49:40 Speaker 14: So it really is a document
00:49:42 Speaker 14: which shapes both the activities that
00:49:44 Speaker 14: we do as an organisation, but
00:49:47 Speaker 14: also shapes the way in which
00:49:49 Speaker 14: we participate in and work with
00:49:51 Speaker 14: community. And so the the strategy,
00:49:53 Speaker 14: long-term strategy, embeds within it 21
00:49:55 Speaker 14: community actions and 13 corporate actions,
00:49:56 Speaker 14: which will be put into place
00:49:58 Speaker 14: in various different. phases throughout the
00:50:00 Speaker 14: the duration of that 28-year strategy.
00:50:03 Speaker 14: It ultimately creates a singular goal,
00:50:04 Speaker 14: which, when 2050, when we look
00:50:06 Speaker 14: back at the plan being adopted
00:50:09 Speaker 14: in 2022, we can assess at
00:50:10 Speaker 14: success against, and that is a
00:50:11 Speaker 14: net zero target by 2050. That's
00:50:13 Speaker 14: net zero based on 2018 emission
00:50:14 Speaker 14: levels. So what we're trying to
00:50:16 Speaker 14: do is be as good as
00:50:18 Speaker 14: we were in 2018, or at
00:50:20 Speaker 14: least. get back to being as
00:50:21 Speaker 14: good as we were in 2018
00:50:22 Speaker 14: in respect to our
00:50:24 Speaker 14: emission levels, and so that net
00:50:27 Speaker 14: zero target is out there in
00:50:30 Speaker 14: the future, and that would be
00:50:32 Speaker 14: one way in which we would
00:50:34 Speaker 14: demonstrate achievability across the plan. Obviously,
00:50:36 Speaker 14: with a 30-year, a 30-year strategy
00:50:39 Speaker 14: or 28-year strategy, things change. There
00:50:42 Speaker 14: are interim goals and interim targets
00:50:44 Speaker 14: achieved through that, and they are
00:50:45 Speaker 14: articulated through some of the actions
00:50:48 Speaker 14: and activities that we we do
00:50:49 Speaker 14: throughout. The plan doesn't set down
00:50:50 Speaker 14: in stone. what happens in each
00:50:52 Speaker 14: individual year. It sets out a
00:50:56 Speaker 14: general trajectory for us to take
00:50:59 Speaker 14: over the course of the the
00:51:00 Speaker 14: term of the plan. The plan
00:51:01 Speaker 14: was developed not in isolation. It
00:51:03 Speaker 14: was developed a difficult time in
00:51:05 Speaker 14: terms of community engagement, but
00:51:07 Speaker 14: it was developed through through the
00:51:10 Speaker 14: period of COVID, and so there
00:51:11 Speaker 14: were some challenges that were put
00:51:14 Speaker 15: in the way. But despite those
00:51:16 Speaker 15: challenges to its development, it was
00:51:18 Speaker 15: robustly researched. There was a great
00:51:21 Speaker 15: deal of technical modelling. We relied
00:51:23 Speaker 15: on external expertise as well as
00:51:24 Speaker 15: internal expertise in terms of the
00:51:27 Speaker 15: development of the plan. and significant
00:51:29 Speaker 15: engagement with member municipalities, and more
00:51:33 Speaker 15: than 300 residents that were actively
00:51:34 Speaker 15: involved directly providing feedback into the
00:51:37 Speaker 15: plan. A climate change task force
00:51:38 Speaker 15: was struck. That task force has
00:51:40 Speaker 15: evolved over time. It has broadened
00:51:42 Speaker 15: its scope and currently is reflected
00:51:44 Speaker 15: in the work that's ongoing with
00:51:45 Speaker 15: the climate change community of practice,
00:51:47 Speaker 15: which is a partnership with all
00:51:48 Speaker 15: nine member municipalities. So that's a
00:51:50 Speaker 15: little bit of a review of
00:51:53 Speaker 15: the plan. I'm going to let.
00:51:56 Speaker 15: View of the plan. I'm going
00:51:58 Speaker 15: to let Linda take over for
00:51:59 Speaker 15: the next few slides. Thank you,
00:52:02 Speaker 15: Nile. So I'll walk through some
00:52:03 Speaker 15: of the details of the plan
00:52:09 Speaker 15: and a little bit about the
00:52:10 Speaker 15: implementation that we've undertaken so far.
00:52:12 Speaker 15: So, as Nile mentioned, when we
00:52:13 Speaker 15: initially brought forward these emission reduction
00:52:17 Speaker 15: targets, there was a desire to
00:52:19 Speaker 15: make sure that not only were
00:52:21 Speaker 15: we targeting the science-based net zero
00:52:23 Speaker 15: by 2050, meaning it's a kind
00:52:25 Speaker 15: of internationally recognised level of ambition.
00:52:29 Speaker 15: needed to avoid the worst impacts
00:52:31 Speaker 15: of climate change. So it's not
00:52:33 Speaker 15: a number we came up with
00:52:37 Speaker 15: when they were looking at the
00:52:39 Speaker 15: international contributions to climate change. Was
00:52:41 Speaker 15: identified that collectively we needed to
00:52:43 Speaker 15: be heading towards net zero by
00:52:45 Speaker 15: 2050. And what we were asked
00:52:47 Speaker 15: by the climate change task force
00:52:49 Speaker 15: back in 2022, and subsequently by
00:52:53 Speaker 15: county council at that time, was
00:52:55 Speaker 15: to establish some interim milestones. It's
00:52:57 Speaker 15: one thing to have a goal
00:53:00 Speaker 15: for 2050, but we need to
00:53:02 Speaker 15: have some mile markers along the
00:53:04 Speaker 15: way, and so we did bring
00:53:06 Speaker 15: back these interim targets between 2026
00:53:07 Speaker 15: and 2050, and also an accelerated
00:53:10 Speaker 15: corporate target. There was a desire
00:53:14 Speaker 15: to show that the county was
00:53:17 Speaker 15: leading by example, and that we
00:53:20 Speaker 15: would seek to achieve net zero
00:53:21 Speaker 15: emissions corporately by 2045. As Niall
00:53:22 Speaker 15: mentioned, at the same time that
00:53:25 Speaker 15: the plan was adopted, there was
00:53:27 Speaker 15: also the declaration of a climate
00:53:29 Speaker 15: emergency. The reasons that it was
00:53:31 Speaker 15: a climate emergency in 2022 have
00:53:33 Speaker 15: certainly not abated. All of the
00:53:36 Speaker 15: same factors that led to that
00:53:38 Speaker 15: declaration still stand. The World Economic
00:53:38 Speaker 15: Forum issues an annual global risk
00:53:40 Speaker 15: report, which looks at the material
00:53:42 Speaker 15: impacts of climate change, and it
00:53:45 Speaker 15: identified the that extreme weather in
00:53:47 Speaker 15: 2026 is one of the is
00:53:49 Speaker 15: in the top three risks to
00:53:50 Speaker 15: present a material crisis on a
00:53:51 Speaker 15: global scale. and when you look
00:53:53 Speaker 15: to the ten-year time horizon, all
00:53:58 Speaker 15: top three risks identified by this
00:53:59 Speaker 15: body are environmental. We have some
00:54:02 Speaker 15: local data as well. We previously
00:54:03 Speaker 15: brought to council the Gray County
00:54:05 Speaker 15: Climate Science Report. It projects that
00:54:08 Speaker 15: extreme heat days, so days that
00:54:10 Speaker 15: are warmer than thirty degrees, will
00:54:13 Speaker 15: increase from five in the baseline
00:54:15 Speaker 15: at around the year two thousand
00:54:16 Speaker 15: up to thirty-eight by twenty eighty.
00:54:18 Speaker 15: So that's hope. That's unlikely to
00:54:21 Speaker 15: be within my lifetime, but certainly
00:54:23 Speaker 15: within the lifetime of our residents.
00:54:25 Speaker 15: The next thing on the slide,
00:54:26 Speaker 15: and also in our report,
00:54:28 Speaker 15: is some projections about extreme storms
00:54:33 Speaker 15: and extreme precipitation. The image you
00:54:36 Speaker 15: see on this slide is in
00:54:37 Speaker 15: Hepworth, just in April of this
00:54:39 Speaker 15: year. So we anticipate that what
00:54:40 Speaker 15: is currently a one-in-one-hundred-year storm, and
00:54:43 Speaker 15: this particular stat is about a
00:54:45 Speaker 15: twenty-four-hour storm, so not just kind
00:54:46 Speaker 15: of those flash storms, but where
00:54:50 Speaker 15: you're getting heavy precipitation over an
00:54:52 Speaker 15: entire. 24-hour period. What currently is
00:54:54 Speaker 15: a one-in-100-year storm by the 2050s
00:54:56 Speaker 15: will be a one-in-25-year storm. So
00:54:59 Speaker 15: we're going to be seeing that
00:55:03 Speaker 15: on our infrastructure. We're going to
00:55:05 Speaker 15: be seeing that in our residents
00:55:08 Speaker 15: and in their basements. What else?
00:55:10 Speaker 15: So those are some of the
00:55:11 Speaker 15: reasons why it's a climate emergency.
00:55:12 Speaker 15: This is actually some data from
00:55:14 Speaker 15: the last presenter that was commissioned
00:55:16 Speaker 15: by the Nuclear Innovation Institute in
00:55:18 Speaker 15: October of 2025. They released a
00:55:19 Speaker 15: study. called "Measuring Momentum," and in
00:55:21 Speaker 15: that, 82% of Bruce and Gray
00:55:23 Speaker 15: residents felt the government does need
00:55:25 Speaker 15: to be taking action on climate
00:55:26 Speaker 15: change. There is strong local support
00:55:27 Speaker 15: from a representative poll around this
00:55:29 Speaker 15: issue. Doesn't mean that all residents
00:55:30 Speaker 15: feel this way, but certainly in
00:55:32 Speaker 15: that representative polling, this isn't locally
00:55:34 Speaker 15: relevant issue. So, what have we
00:55:35 Speaker 15: been doing since 2022, and what
00:55:36 Speaker 15: are the resources that have been
00:55:41 Speaker 15: allocated through the annual budget? budget
00:55:42 Speaker 15: processes, none of this is new
00:55:44 Speaker 15: information for anyone around the table.
00:55:47 Speaker 15: Once the plan was approved, through
00:55:48 Speaker 15: each subsequent budget year, there has
00:55:52 Speaker 15: been county resources, county funds allocated
00:55:54 Speaker 15: towards climate change staffing. This tells
00:55:57 Speaker 15: a little bit of that story.
00:56:00 Speaker 15: So, in 2023, there was an
00:56:02 Speaker 15: allocation of three staff, two permanent
00:56:05 Speaker 15: and one contract. The two climate
00:56:07 Speaker 15: change coordinator roles. The contract initially
00:56:09 Speaker 15: was a two-year focus on community.
00:56:13 Speaker 15: To your focus on community engagement
00:56:16 Speaker 15: and mobilization, so getting our partners
00:56:17 Speaker 15: to kind of do their part
00:56:24 Speaker 15: with us, and then finding how
00:56:26 Speaker 15: we can work together, and then
00:56:28 Speaker 15: also at that time a
00:56:30 Speaker 15: permanent coordinator role focused on
00:56:32 Speaker 15: energy management and data, so kind
00:56:34 Speaker 15: of a corporate focus for our
00:56:37 Speaker 15: own internal operations. I should note
00:56:39 Speaker 15: that this chart is on page
00:56:41 Speaker 15: five of your report, and if
00:56:43 Speaker 15: you were very keen and you
00:56:45 Speaker 15: downloaded that report in the first
00:56:47 Speaker 15: twenty-four hours that it was posted,
00:56:50 Speaker 15: there was an error, which is
00:56:52 Speaker 15: subsequently being corrected. So the report
00:56:54 Speaker 15: you have in front of you
00:56:56 Speaker 15: and what's on the slide is
00:56:57 Speaker 15: accurate. in the 2027 year. After
00:56:59 Speaker 15: 2023, due to budget pressures, you
00:57:01 Speaker 15: can see that the county-funded resourcing
00:57:02 Speaker 15: has evolved. In 2024, we switched
00:57:06 Speaker 15: one of the permanent roles to
00:57:07 Speaker 15: a contract coordinator. In 2025,
00:57:10 Speaker 15: the level of county support was
00:57:11 Speaker 15: to keep one contract coordinator through
00:57:13 Speaker 15: 2025 and a half-year coordinator role.
00:57:16 Speaker 15: In 2026, through the budget process,
00:57:18 Speaker 15: it was suggested by staff to
00:57:20 Speaker 15: reinstate one of the permanent coordinator
00:57:28 Speaker 15: roles that was not supported by
00:57:30 Speaker 15: council at that time. However, that
00:57:31 Speaker 15: coordinator role does remain in the
00:57:33 Speaker 15: draft 2027 budget, which is what
00:57:35 Speaker 15: you see reflected on this slide.
00:57:38 Speaker 15: Having a climate action plan unlocks
00:57:42 Speaker 15: resources for the county. There's a
00:57:47 Speaker 15: number of funding streams, particularly through
00:57:49 Speaker 15: the Federation of Canadian Municipalities, that
00:57:51 Speaker 15: require a municipality to have a
00:57:54 Speaker 15: climate action plan to be eligible.
00:57:55 Speaker 15: Some examples of funding that's been
00:57:57 Speaker 15: unlocked in the last three and
00:58:00 Speaker 15: a half years include nearly four
00:58:01 Speaker 15: hundred and fifty thousand to support
00:58:02 Speaker 15: our green development program for climate
00:58:03 Speaker 15: adaptation, so helping us to ensure
00:58:09 Speaker 15: our community and our infrastructure is
00:58:10 Speaker 15: ready for that changing climate. We
00:58:12 Speaker 15: received one hundred and five thousand
00:58:14 Speaker 15: to support the development of a
00:58:16 Speaker 15: climate adaptation plan, and over twenty-seven
00:58:17 Speaker 15: thousand dollars in technical resource. Thousand
00:58:19 Speaker 15: dollars in technical resources to
00:58:21 Speaker 15: help with the design of our
00:58:26 Speaker 15: paramedic bases for climate resilience. We
00:58:27 Speaker 15: received over ninety thousand dollars in
00:58:29 Speaker 15: incentives around corporate energy efficiency. Some
00:58:30 Speaker 15: of that's been expertise, some of
00:58:32 Speaker 15: that's been direct incentives to install
00:58:36 Speaker 15: things like variable speed ventilator fan
00:58:38 Speaker 15: ventilators. And there's also been two
00:58:41 Speaker 15: point five million dollars committed for
00:58:42 Speaker 15: public electric vehicle chargers. All of
00:58:45 Speaker 15: this investment is moving. the needle
00:58:48 Speaker 15: forward. We're seeing a number of
00:58:52 Speaker 15: net zero ready new builds within
00:58:56 Speaker 15: our own portfolio, including the Rockwood
00:58:58 Speaker 15: Terrace, as well as
00:58:59 Speaker 15: the upcoming paramedic bases. We've already
00:59:01 Speaker 15: installed a number of twenty federally
00:59:03 Speaker 15: funded EV fleet chargers and have
00:59:06 Speaker 15: our first two light duty electric
00:59:12 Speaker 15: vehicles on the road that we're
00:59:14 Speaker 15: testing. We've engaged staff. We're trying
00:59:16 Speaker 15: to cultivate that culture of sustainability
00:59:19 Speaker 15: within the organization. and also residents.
00:59:22 Speaker 15: We've had a great partnership with
00:59:23 Speaker 15: Neighborhoods North that you would have
00:59:26 Speaker 15: driven past on your way in
00:59:27 Speaker 15: this morning to naturalize the front
00:59:28 Speaker 15: lawn. Which is to say that
00:59:29 Speaker 15: all of this happens only in
00:59:31 Speaker 15: partnership. We know that it took
00:59:33 Speaker 15: a community to make this plan,
00:59:35 Speaker 15: and it certainly takes a community
00:59:36 Speaker 15: to implement this plan. We're working
00:59:40 Speaker 15: closely with conservation authorities, public health
00:59:42 Speaker 15: units, various local volunteer organizations, and
00:59:43 Speaker 15: really the counties. And really, the
00:59:45 Speaker 15: county's role is mostly to act
00:59:52 Speaker 15: as a coordinator and a facilitator
00:59:55 Speaker 15: and a resource to help move
00:59:58 Speaker 14: the needle with these partners. The
01:00:00 Speaker 14: most important partners being our local
01:00:02 Speaker 14: municipalities. Of course, we host, as
01:00:05 Speaker 14: Nile mentioned, a monthly community of
01:00:07 Speaker 14: practice where we share resources
01:00:09 Speaker 14: with municipal staff. We talk about
01:00:14 Speaker 14: potential grant joint grant applications and
01:00:17 Speaker 14: also lessons learned from efforts. We
01:00:19 Speaker 14: also have close partnership with our
01:00:21 Speaker 14: neighboring municipalities. Bruce County just released
01:00:23 Speaker 14: their first environmental sustainability plan. We're
01:00:24 Speaker 14: working closely with Dufferin and Wellington
01:00:26 Speaker 14: on a number of initiatives, so
01:00:29 Speaker 14: working really to move the needle
01:00:31 Speaker 14: collectively. Based on the evolution of
01:00:33 Speaker 14: resourcing and investment over the last
01:00:36 Speaker 14: few years, we've also modified our
01:00:39 Speaker 14: implementation. So we are currently taking
01:00:42 Speaker 14: a modified approach, but we do
01:00:44 Speaker 14: report back annually. on the implementation
01:00:48 Speaker 14: on an action by action level.
01:00:51 Speaker 14: So the last time we were
01:00:53 Speaker 14: in front of you with that
01:00:54 Speaker 14: was July of twenty twenty five.
01:00:56 Speaker 14: We kind of walk through of
01:00:58 Speaker 14: the twenty one community actions and
01:01:00 Speaker 14: the thirteen corporate actions, how things
01:01:02 Speaker 14: are going, and where we've modified
01:01:04 Speaker 14: our approach. So with that, I
01:01:06 Speaker 14: will hand it back to Nile
01:01:07 Speaker 14: to walk you through the three
01:01:09 Speaker 14: options that are laid out in
01:01:10 Speaker 14: the report today. So. as as
01:01:12 Speaker 14: Linda noted, we're we're currently in
01:01:14 Speaker 14: a modified approach, the approach that
01:01:16 Speaker 14: County Council endorsed at the at
01:01:18 Speaker 14: the start. So that's reflected really
01:01:22 Speaker 14: in in option two here. Option
01:01:24 Speaker 14: one would be to return
01:01:26 Speaker 14: to a full implementation approach, reallocating
01:01:30 Speaker 14: the resources that were initially anticipated
01:01:33 Speaker 14: in in 2022-2023. And option three
01:01:36 Speaker 14: would be the the remove approach.
01:01:38 Speaker 14: And obviously, there are nuances within
01:01:40 Speaker 14: each one. There are nuances within
01:01:42 Speaker 14: each ones of these that county
01:01:45 Speaker 14: council may wish to guide staff
01:01:47 Speaker 14: on. So we've we've sketched these
01:01:49 Speaker 14: out as as a starting point
01:01:50 Speaker 14: for for conversation, and and are
01:01:52 Speaker 14: open to feedback as we might
01:01:55 Speaker 14: go. And I think it's fair
01:01:58 Speaker 14: to recognise that we we do
01:01:59 Speaker 14: recognise that that times change, and
01:02:01 Speaker 14: a strategy which extends over thirty
01:02:02 Speaker 14: years needs to change in response
01:02:05 Speaker 14: to pressures that we we we
01:02:08 Speaker 14: see the financial situation, the political
01:02:12 Speaker 14: situation. the funding situations that were
01:02:14 Speaker 14: in place in 2022 are not
01:02:15 Speaker 14: going to be the same in
01:02:18 Speaker 14: 2050 as they they were then.
01:02:21 Speaker 14: They they will be different. Indeed,
01:02:22 Speaker 14: the funding situations, the political situations
01:02:24 Speaker 14: that we find ourselves in today,
01:02:25 Speaker 14: just a few short years later,
01:02:27 Speaker 14: are different to how they were.
01:02:29 Speaker 14: So we do recognise that the
01:02:31 Speaker 14: need for implementation of a plan
01:02:33 Speaker 14: that extends over this amount of
01:02:34 Speaker 14: time does need to be responsive
01:02:35 Speaker 14: to those pressures. And so we've
01:02:37 Speaker 14: tried to capture that in these
01:02:41 Speaker 14: these three different three different options.
01:02:43 Speaker 14: So, option one is to to
01:02:44 Speaker 14: recommit to the existing approved plan
01:02:47 Speaker 14: and implementation framework that council endorsed
01:02:48 Speaker 14: in 2022, 2023, which is a
01:02:51 Speaker 14: re-establishment of the commitment to 2050,
01:02:53 Speaker 14: the net zero targets. It is
01:02:55 Speaker 14: advancing, continuing to advance all the
01:02:57 Speaker 14: community actions and the corporate actions
01:02:58 Speaker 14: that are in the plan, and
01:02:59 Speaker 14: reinstates and supports the exist the
01:03:01 Speaker 14: the required. resourcing that was put
01:03:03 Speaker 14: in place in 2023 to
01:03:06 Speaker 14: do that, and that would be
01:03:08 Speaker 14: three staff made up of two
01:03:10 Speaker 14: permanent positions—a manager, coordinator—and a contract
01:03:12 Speaker 14: position as an FTE. If we
01:03:13 Speaker 14: were to do that as part
01:03:14 Speaker 14: of the 2027 budget, at this
01:03:17 Speaker 14: point in time, we anticipate that
01:03:20 Speaker 14: would be an additional investment of
01:03:22 Speaker 14: about $196,000 over the already approved
01:03:24 Speaker 14: budgets within the 2026 budget. Option
01:03:27 Speaker 14: number two, which is reflective of
01:03:30 Speaker 14: where we currently sit at this
01:03:32 Speaker 14: point in time. which would and
01:03:34 Speaker 14: does have an impact on the
01:03:36 Speaker 14: net zero target, and we just
01:03:37 Speaker 14: don't know what that that that
01:03:40 Speaker 14: looks like. We haven't had a
01:03:42 Speaker 14: chance to map that out, but
01:03:45 Speaker 14: it would be a delay to
01:03:47 Speaker 14: that net zero target. It would
01:03:48 Speaker 14: continue to implement the actions and
01:03:50 Speaker 14: community priorities that are within the
01:03:53 Speaker 14: plan, but rather than trying to
01:03:55 Speaker 14: tackle all of them at once,
01:03:56 Speaker 14: we would be focusing in on
01:03:57 Speaker 14: specific ones. And staff's particular suggestion
01:03:59 Speaker 14: would be that that if this
01:04:01 Speaker 14: is Would be that if this
01:04:03 Speaker 14: is the approach that we take
01:04:06 Speaker 14: through the 2027 budget and going
01:04:09 Speaker 14: forward, that what we do is
01:04:11 Speaker 14: we focus very strongly on corporate
01:04:14 Speaker 14: targets, the corporate work that we
01:04:15 Speaker 14: as an agency can do. Focus
01:04:19 Speaker 14: on those corporate targets. What are
01:04:20 Speaker 14: the things that we have control
01:04:22 Speaker 14: over that we can change in
01:04:25 Speaker 14: our operations? So really taking a
01:04:27 Speaker 14: strong look at things like corporate
01:04:30 Speaker 14: energy usage, building design, capital infrastructure,
01:04:32 Speaker 14: and what we have direct control
01:04:34 Speaker 14: over, and perhaps taking a slightly
01:04:37 Speaker 14: secondary seat in terms of Second,
01:04:39 Speaker 14: we see in terms of some
01:04:42 Speaker 14: of the community actions that would
01:04:44 Speaker 14: allow for us to target quite
01:04:45 Speaker 14: specifically what we can change, while
01:04:47 Speaker 14: still maintaining the the nuance of
01:04:48 Speaker 14: the plan, not abandoning any actions,
01:04:50 Speaker 14: but perhaps prioritising a subset of
01:04:54 Speaker 14: those over coming years. That
01:04:56 Speaker 14: would see us have the existing
01:04:57 Speaker 14: staff allocation of a manager, as
01:05:00 Speaker 14: Linda says, within the existing 2027
01:05:01 Speaker 14: budget. Although it was removed in
01:05:03 Speaker 14: 2026, it was left in the
01:05:06 Speaker 14: draft 2027 budget, so that would
01:05:07 Speaker 14: have a. permanent coordinator introduced over
01:05:09 Speaker 14: and above what's in place in
01:05:11 Speaker 14: 2026, and would continue the grant-funded
01:05:14 Speaker 14: work that we have going on
01:05:16 Speaker 14: right now, which which goes through
01:05:21 Speaker 14: to April of next year. Because
01:05:24 Speaker 14: this, although this is the modified
01:05:25 Speaker 14: approach, and this is the approach
01:05:28 Speaker 14: that we're currently on, as I
01:05:30 Speaker 14: say, that 2027 budget does include
01:05:33 Speaker 14: a full-time addition, and so that's
01:05:34 Speaker 14: 114,000, just about a little bit
01:05:37 Speaker 14: under 115,000 of an operating impact
01:05:39 Speaker 14: between 2026 and 2027. and that
01:05:43 Speaker 14: was shown in the numbers that
01:05:46 Speaker 14: county council saw in the draft
01:05:48 Speaker 14: 2027 budgets. We went through the
01:05:49 Speaker 14: budget process late last year. The
01:05:51 Speaker 14: third option would be to remove
01:05:53 Speaker 14: going green in grey entirely. This
01:05:54 Speaker 14: would obviously remove the net zero
01:05:56 Speaker 14: target, and it would suspend all
01:05:58 Speaker 14: dedicated efforts, both corporately and community
01:06:00 Speaker 14: wide. We would still obviously want
01:06:03 Speaker 14: to work with departments to seek
01:06:05 Speaker 14: to be maximise our operational efficiency
01:06:06 Speaker 14: and and in. And and increasingly,
01:06:07 Speaker 14: a lot of operational efficiency does
01:06:12 Speaker 14: tie into objectives which reduce energy
01:06:13 Speaker 14: usage, look to lower bills, and
01:06:15 Speaker 14: so on and so forth. And
01:06:17 Speaker 14: so, some of the activities that
01:06:19 Speaker 15: are in there would continue, but
01:06:20 Speaker 15: there would be no dedicated focus
01:06:22 Speaker 15: on trying to advance climate priorities
01:06:25 Speaker 15: or environmental emissions. There would be
01:06:28 Speaker 15: no tracking of our GHG emissions
01:06:30 Speaker 15: under this option, and climate would
01:06:32 Speaker 15: no longer be a stated objective
01:06:34 Speaker 15: of the county operations as as
01:06:36 Speaker 15: the underlying strategy which. we currently
01:06:39 Speaker 15: have that does that, would no
01:06:42 Speaker 15: longer be in place. It would
01:06:45 Speaker 15: eliminate all dedicated operating and capital
01:06:46 Speaker 15: change investments, and that would create
01:06:49 Speaker 15: a net reduction over the in
01:06:52 Speaker 15: 356,000 from 2026 to 2027, or
01:06:54 Speaker 15: a little, a little
01:06:56 Speaker 15: under half a percent would be
01:06:59 Speaker 15: saved off the draft 2027 budget
01:07:02 Speaker 15: that you have already seen. So
01:07:05 Speaker 15: a little, a little, yeah, a
01:07:08 Speaker 15: little over 0.4. percent, a little
01:07:09 Speaker 15: less than half a percent shaved
01:07:12 Speaker 15: off the 2027 budget. There would
01:07:14 Speaker 15: be some additional costs in 2026
01:07:16 Speaker 15: as this option does create some
01:07:21 Speaker 15: some challenges around staffing, and so
01:07:23 Speaker 15: there would be the potential for
01:07:25 Speaker 15: some grant revenue to have to
01:07:27 Speaker 15: be returned associated with projects that
01:07:29 Speaker 15: might not be able to be
01:07:31 Speaker 15: completed, and there would be associated
01:07:33 Speaker 15: redundancy termination costs that would be
01:07:35 Speaker 15: associated with this option. And so
01:07:38 Speaker 15: this would would be the
01:07:41 Speaker 15: removal of. going green and grey,
01:07:42 Speaker 15: and with that, I'll hand over
01:07:44 Speaker 15: to Linda just to take us
01:07:47 Speaker 15: through the last couple of slides.
01:07:51 Speaker 15: Thank you, Nile. So, in a
01:07:52 Speaker 15: way, Nile has the easier job
01:07:54 Speaker 15: in that there are costs that
01:07:56 Speaker 15: we can estimate around those three
01:07:57 Speaker 15: different options. But the cost that
01:07:59 Speaker 15: is very difficult to quantify is
01:08:02 Speaker 15: the cost of inaction. It is
01:08:03 Speaker 15: something that we are starting to
01:08:05 Speaker 15: look at, recognizing that Grey County's
01:08:07 Speaker 15: actions happen within a network, obviously.
01:08:08 Speaker 15: the work that we're doing can
01:08:10 Speaker 15: only be successful in in nested
01:08:12 Speaker 15: within work from the provincial and
01:08:14 Speaker 15: federal governments. So we're currently undertaking
01:08:15 Speaker 15: some analysis of what the costs
01:08:16 Speaker 15: directly and indirectly to the county
01:08:20 Speaker 15: would be of not taking action
01:08:23 Speaker 15: on climate change. We know that
01:08:24 Speaker 15: the Financial Accountability Office of Ontario
01:08:26 Speaker 15: has done some estimates specifically around
01:08:28 Speaker 15: infrastructure costs, looking at different climate
01:08:30 Speaker 15: projections. So looking. at linear engineered
01:08:32 Speaker 15: infrastructure, so roads, the estimate is
01:08:35 Speaker 15: that climate change between 2022 and
01:08:38 Speaker 15: 2030 could be adding up to
01:08:40 Speaker 15: 15% in terms of maintenance costs.
01:08:44 Speaker 15: So, state of good repair maintenance,
01:08:45 Speaker 15: and then that escalates up to
01:08:47 Speaker 15: 23% additional costs between 2031 and
01:08:51 Speaker 15: 2070, which gives us an estimated
01:08:52 Speaker 15: annual increase, which is a big
01:08:56 Speaker 15: number, but you know, not a
01:08:58 Speaker 15: huge number relative to our overall
01:09:00 Speaker 15: linear infrastructure costs of an additional
01:09:02 Speaker 15: almost five million a year to
01:09:07 Speaker 15: 2033. The other interesting thing in
01:09:09 Speaker 15: the FAO's analysis is that by
01:09:11 Speaker 15: investing preventively and keeping our infrastructure
01:09:13 Speaker 15: climate ready, we can avoid those
01:09:15 Speaker 15: costs, and it's certainly cheaper to
01:09:17 Speaker 15: to be making those investments in
01:09:19 Speaker 15: advance. Indirectly, we as a municipality
01:09:21 Speaker 15: or as a county, as a
01:09:24 Speaker 15: municipal level of government, deliver services
01:09:25 Speaker 15: to some of our most vulnerable
01:09:26 Speaker 15: residents. The very young and the
01:09:30 Speaker 15: very old, through our early-on programming
01:09:32 Speaker 15: and our long-term care facilities, and
01:09:34 Speaker 15: these are the folks who are
01:09:37 Speaker 15: most negatively affected by those extreme
01:09:39 Speaker 15: heat events that I spoke about
01:09:41 Speaker 15: earlier, rising from five days a
01:09:45 Speaker 15: year to 38 days a year,
01:09:47 Speaker 15: and also increasingly wildfire smoke. It's
01:09:48 Speaker 15: not something we were thinking about
01:09:55 Speaker 15: a decade ago, but now is
01:09:58 Speaker 15: a very real part of many
01:10:02 Speaker 01: people's summer summer plans. So, one
01:10:05 Speaker 01: of the vulnerable communities for those
01:10:07 Speaker 01: kind of extreme heat and wildfire
01:10:09 Speaker 01: issues is our agriculture. Wildfire issues.
01:10:11 Speaker 01: These are agricultural workers. So there,
01:10:15 Speaker 01: some of the initial analysis we've
01:10:17 Speaker 01: been doing around the cost of
01:10:18 Speaker 01: inaction has identified that we have
01:10:20 Speaker 01: about 6,500 agricultural workers across Bay
01:10:22 Speaker 01: County, and that if there's five
01:10:23 Speaker 01: wildfire smoke days per year, as
01:10:25 Speaker 01: Ray Bruce called last summer, we
01:10:26 Speaker 01: could be losing up to 1.2
01:10:29 Speaker 01: billion dollars in GDP from the
01:10:31 Speaker 01: agricultural sector. These are estimates, but
01:10:33 Speaker 01: I think it's just useful as
01:10:37 Speaker 01: you weighing. the the the various
01:10:39 Speaker 01: options to to at least hold
01:10:41 Speaker 01: that there are costs to to
01:10:43 Speaker 01: not taking action as well as
01:10:45 Speaker 01: costs to investing. So in conclusion,
01:10:46 Speaker 01: obviously climate action investments need to
01:10:49 Speaker 01: be weighed within the reality of
01:10:51 Speaker 01: limited resources. We recognize that, and
01:10:54 Speaker 01: as Mal said, things change. But
01:10:56 Speaker 01: the climate change, the the literal
01:10:58 Speaker 01: climate, the political climate, the budget
01:11:00 Speaker 01: climate changes over time. While it's
01:11:02 Speaker 01: more complex to estimate the. cost
01:11:04 Speaker 01: of inaction than the direct budget
01:11:05 Speaker 01: impacts of the Going Green and
01:11:08 Speaker 01: Gray program. It's worth bearing in
01:11:10 Speaker 01: mind. And as Niall mentioned, as
01:11:12 Speaker 01: is indicated in the report itself,
01:11:15 Speaker 01: as a result of previous direction,
01:11:16 Speaker 14: unless guided otherwise by council, we
01:11:19 Speaker 14: will move forward with the modified
01:11:20 Speaker 14: approach, which was presented through the
01:11:23 Speaker 14: draft 2027 budget. With that, thank
01:11:24 Speaker 14: you. And Niall and I are
01:11:27 Speaker 14: happy to answer any questions. Okay,
01:11:29 Speaker 14: thank you very much. And the
01:11:32 Speaker 14: motion on the floor is to
01:11:35 Speaker 14: receive. The clerk has called my
01:11:36 Speaker 14: my attention to our procedural bylaw
01:11:39 Speaker 14: here in the county council chamber
01:11:41 Speaker 14: does not allow for the the
01:11:42 Speaker 14: demonstration of signs and banners in
01:11:43 Speaker 14: in our chamber. So respectfully, I
01:11:45 Speaker 14: I understand. I know rules are
01:11:47 Speaker 14: different in each and every town
01:11:50 Speaker 14: hall across the county. but with
01:11:52 Speaker 14: respect, I would just ask that
01:11:53 Speaker 14: any signs be lowered for the
01:11:55 Speaker 14: duration of this. And I appreciate
01:11:56 Speaker 14: that there's been no attempt to
01:11:58 Speaker 14: disrupt the discussion, and would just
01:12:01 Speaker 14: ask that that we can follow
01:12:02 Speaker 14: the the bylaws so that it's
01:12:03 Speaker 14: fair for everyone. Thank you. So
01:12:05 Speaker 14: with that, it is to receive
01:12:07 Speaker 14: for information, but Deputy CAO, perhaps
01:12:09 Speaker 14: you can then just just remind
01:12:11 Speaker 14: us before we go into the
01:12:12 Speaker 14: discussion the alternatives that have been
01:12:16 Speaker 01: provided in there one, two, and
01:12:17 Speaker 01: three. In there, one, two, and
01:12:19 Speaker 01: three—it it's food for thought for
01:12:22 Speaker 01: the 2027 budget discussion. What is
01:12:28 Speaker 13: the timeline? You said that you
01:12:30 Speaker 13: that you will take whatever input
01:12:32 Speaker 13: comes from today's discussion, and that
01:12:35 Speaker 13: will help guide the staff in
01:12:38 Speaker 13: what recommendation you bring forth in
01:12:40 Speaker 13: terms of the in the context
01:12:42 Speaker 13: of the 2027 budget. What is
01:12:44 Speaker 13: that? What is the next step
01:12:46 Speaker 13: when we have this discussion about
01:12:47 Speaker 13: receiving this report? Thank you, thank
01:12:50 Speaker 13: you, Madam Warden, and. Thank you,
01:12:52 Speaker 13: thank you for Madam Warden, and
01:12:55 Speaker 13: thank you for the question. I
01:12:56 Speaker 13: think the easiest way of answering
01:12:58 Speaker 13: it is if if it's just
01:13:01 Speaker 13: received for information today. The next
01:13:03 Speaker 13: step would be bringing back the
01:13:05 Speaker 13: 2027 draft budget, which we'll be
01:13:08 Speaker 13: doing over over coming months, and
01:13:09 Speaker 13: that will include the existing resource
01:13:12 Speaker 13: allocation and the allocation that was
01:13:15 Speaker 13: approved through the FTE request process
01:13:19 Speaker 13: in 2026, which is to add
01:13:20 Speaker 13: an additional contract staff person so
01:13:24 Speaker 13: that we have a team of
01:13:26 Speaker 13: two to lead the strategy. So
01:13:29 Speaker 13: that's in. That was what County
01:13:31 Speaker 13: Council saw through the draft 2027
01:13:35 Speaker 13: budget and the 2026-2027 budget process.
01:13:37 Speaker 13: We would be bringing that back.
01:13:38 Speaker 13: So, if the report stands as
01:13:41 Speaker 13: is today, there would be no
01:13:43 Speaker 13: change in strategy and direction between
01:13:46 Speaker 13: now and County Council seeing the
01:13:47 Speaker 13: budget. If County Council wanted to
01:13:48 Speaker 13: leave it at that and then
01:13:49 Speaker 13: make changes at that time, that
01:13:52 Speaker 13: would be that's reasonable. If County
01:13:54 Speaker 13: Council wanted to provide guidance to
01:13:56 Speaker 13: staff through this conversation, then we
01:13:57 Speaker 13: would build that direction into the
01:13:59 Speaker 13: budget process, and that's when it
01:14:03 Speaker 13: would come back. Success, and that's
01:14:05 Speaker 13: when it would come back. Okay,
01:14:06 Speaker 13: thank you. So, with that context,
01:14:10 Speaker 13: I'll open it up to committee.
01:14:12 Speaker 13: The whole members for discussion. Councillor
01:14:14 Speaker 13: Mackie. Thank you, Warden Matrasos, and
01:14:15 Speaker 13: thank you to my county colleagues
01:14:17 Speaker 13: for deferring this to today so
01:14:19 Speaker 13: I could participate in the discussion.
01:14:21 Speaker 13: Being part of the budget group
01:14:22 Speaker 13: last year, this was brought forward.
01:14:26 Speaker 16: I think at my request. So,
01:14:29 Speaker 16: Linda and I appreciate all the
01:14:31 Speaker 16: effort and time that you've put
01:14:33 Speaker 16: into it. And I can tell
01:14:34 Speaker 16: you that I really question whether
01:14:38 Speaker 16: or not, or to what level,
01:14:40 Speaker 16: the county should be participating. I
01:14:42 Speaker 16: mean, when I look at the
01:14:44 Speaker 16: taxes I pay, both federally, provincially,
01:14:48 Speaker 16: and municipally, I'm paying for climate
01:14:50 Speaker 16: at every level. And I, I
01:14:52 Speaker 16: struggled with that for a while.
01:14:54 Speaker 16: But this report, you know, recognizing
01:14:55 Speaker 16: all the work that is being
01:14:57 Speaker 16: done. you know, in Gray County.
01:14:59 Speaker 16: I like the fact that the
01:15:00 Speaker 16: modified is the recommendation, or at
01:15:01 Speaker 16: least what we're going forward with
01:15:04 Speaker 16: now. So I'm certainly prepared to
01:15:05 Speaker 16: recommend that we continue on with
01:15:07 Speaker 16: the modified. What modifications the modified
01:15:09 Speaker 16: approach would take would be up
01:15:12 Speaker 16: to next year's budget, which I'm
01:15:14 Speaker 16: not going to be part of.
01:15:16 Speaker 16: At least the final approval of.
01:15:19 Speaker 16: it, but I don't want to,
01:15:21 Speaker 16: you know, tie the hands of
01:15:23 Speaker 16: of any future council. You know,
01:15:25 Speaker 16: it's going to be a tough
01:15:30 Speaker 16: budget year. We know that one
01:15:31 Speaker 14: way or the other, it'll be
01:15:35 Speaker 14: tough. And what decisions get made
01:15:37 Speaker 14: will be up to a new
01:15:39 Speaker 14: mandate. But you know, looking at
01:15:41 Speaker 14: the work that we've been doing
01:15:42 Speaker 14: with retrofitting, you know, with the
01:15:44 Speaker 14: the ag community, I see the
01:15:45 Speaker 14: benefit of the investment we're making
01:15:46 Speaker 14: right now. I think our original
01:15:49 Speaker 14: goals were. maybe too lofty, and
01:15:51 Speaker 14: that's been addressed through the modified.
01:15:53 Speaker 14: So I don't think we can
01:15:55 Speaker 14: afford to go back to those
01:15:57 Speaker 14: original goals. I think we need
01:15:59 Speaker 14: to to revamp that a little
01:16:01 Speaker 14: bit, and the modified does that,
01:16:03 Speaker 14: in my opinion. So those are
01:16:04 Speaker 14: my comments, Madam Warden. Thank you.
01:16:06 Speaker 14: I'll go to Councillor Bordignon. Thank
01:16:08 Speaker 14: you, Madam Warden, Madrasovs, and good
01:16:10 Speaker 14: morning, County Council. Thank you for
01:16:11 Speaker 14: the report. There's a lot of
01:16:13 Speaker 14: information in here. You know, listening
01:16:16 Speaker 14: to the the presentation and seeing
01:16:19 Speaker 14: where the needle can be moved,
01:16:21 Speaker 14: and then being cognizant of the
01:16:23 Speaker 14: financial implications as we move forward.
01:16:24 Speaker 14: So the modification model as we're
01:16:27 Speaker 14: as we're moving forward allows for
01:16:29 Speaker 14: just prioritization. I see less reduction
01:16:31 Speaker 14: than I thought there would be
01:16:34 Speaker 14: in the modified model, as opposed
01:16:37 Speaker 14: to being able to move forward
01:16:39 Speaker 14: and having those discussions at the
01:16:40 Speaker 14: at the budget time and at
01:16:41 Speaker 14: the budget level and seeing where
01:16:42 Speaker 14: that washes out. As you know.
01:16:44 Speaker 14: as we all have concerns fiscally,
01:16:46 Speaker 14: but environmentally as well. So, my
01:16:48 Speaker 14: question to, I guess, the Deputy
01:16:50 Speaker 14: CAO would be, if things remain
01:16:51 Speaker 14: at the modified level, what information
01:16:54 Speaker 14: can you bring back for maybe
01:16:56 Speaker 14: a plus version or enhanced? Looking
01:16:57 Speaker 14: at all the numbers, what do
01:16:59 Speaker 14: you anticipate showing us, or whoever
01:17:00 Speaker 14: at the table, this coming fall?
01:17:01 Speaker 14: So, through you, Madam Warden, and
01:17:03 Speaker 14: thank you for the question, Councillor.
01:17:05 Speaker 14: So, the intention through forward be
01:17:07 Speaker 14: in terms of the budget would
01:17:09 Speaker 14: just be a numbers game rather
01:17:10 Speaker 14: than anything more detailed than that.
01:17:13 Speaker 14: I think it would be reasonable
01:17:19 Speaker 14: to say that during the next
01:17:20 Speaker 14: update, which would probably be under
01:17:23 Speaker 14: the next term of council, we
01:17:25 Speaker 14: could identify and articulate what those
01:17:26 Speaker 16: priority actions would be. But within
01:17:30 Speaker 16: the conversations that we've had in
01:17:31 Speaker 16: the modified approach, within the conversations
01:17:33 Speaker 16: we've had developing this report, our
01:17:35 Speaker 16: sense is that we really should
01:17:38 Speaker 16: focus probably on energy. as one
01:17:39 Speaker 16: of the critical next steps. It's
01:17:44 Speaker 16: one of the biggest pieces that
01:17:45 Speaker 16: we we currently lack some resourcing,
01:17:46 Speaker 16: and we did start down that
01:17:48 Speaker 16: journey, but it was one of
01:17:49 Speaker 14: the resources that that was lost.
01:17:53 Speaker 14: And so, if we if we
01:17:54 Speaker 14: are supported, if there is support
01:17:56 Speaker 14: for the modified approach through budget,
01:17:57 Speaker 14: I suspect strongly suspect that what
01:17:58 Speaker 14: you'd be seeing is us really
01:18:00 Speaker 14: starting to focus in on on
01:18:03 Speaker 14: the county's energy usage, very very
01:18:04 Speaker 14: generally across the whole of the
01:18:06 Speaker 14: operation of the county. that would
01:18:08 Speaker 14: be programs within our long-term care
01:18:10 Speaker 14: buildings. It would be programs within
01:18:12 Speaker 14: our our housing units, as well
01:18:15 Speaker 14: as things like fleet and so
01:18:16 Speaker 14: on and so forth. So we'd
01:18:17 Speaker 14: be very much looking at the
01:18:19 Speaker 14: sort of the energy uses is
01:18:20 Speaker 14: where staffs' initial thoughts would be
01:18:21 Speaker 14: in terms of targeting that work,
01:18:23 Speaker 14: as well as providing, you know,
01:18:28 Speaker 14: continuing to provide some of that
01:18:32 Speaker 17: coordination work between member municipalities to
01:18:34 Speaker 17: ensure that we're we're working as
01:18:35 Speaker 17: efficiently and effectively together as possible
01:18:39 Speaker 17: towards these targets. but as I
01:18:40 Speaker 17: say, it would probably take us
01:18:42 Speaker 17: a little bit of time after
01:18:44 Speaker 17: we've figured out what that modified
01:18:47 Speaker 17: approach looks like from county council
01:18:50 Speaker 17: perspective to really identify what we
01:18:51 Speaker 17: would recommend as being those priority
01:18:55 Speaker 17: actions, and then obviously they would
01:18:57 Speaker 17: come back to county council for
01:19:02 Speaker 17: for endorsement and approval. Follow up.
01:19:04 Speaker 17: Yes, thank you, Madam Morgan. Thank
01:19:06 Speaker 17: thank you for that. And then
01:19:07 Speaker 17: by prioritising that and looking at
01:19:09 Speaker 17: actual target goals, you'll be able
01:19:12 Speaker 17: to bring practical. information back for
01:19:14 Speaker 17: future councils to make a decision
01:19:16 Speaker 17: based on. We've done this, and
01:19:19 Speaker 17: this is the this is where
01:19:22 Speaker 17: the the needle has moved based
01:19:24 Speaker 17: on specific targeting. Is that is
01:19:26 Speaker 17: that sort of where you're going
01:19:28 Speaker 17: with that? So through you, Madam
01:19:30 Speaker 17: Ward. Yes, I mean that's one
01:19:31 Speaker 17: of the other real benefits of
01:19:33 Speaker 17: energy. Uh, its energy is actually
01:19:36 Speaker 17: really easy to manage to to
01:19:37 Speaker 17: measure, and so um uh it
01:19:39 Speaker 17: it's one of those pieces that
01:19:42 Speaker 17: we have. we have quite clear
01:19:43 Speaker 17: controls of both the inputs and
01:19:46 Speaker 17: we can measure the outputs, so
01:19:49 Speaker 17: we can we can clearly articulate
01:19:50 Speaker 17: through measuring our energy where investment
01:19:55 Speaker 17: is made and there's a return
01:19:57 Speaker 17: on that investment in terms of
01:20:04 Speaker 17: energy dropping or or costs dropping
01:20:05 Speaker 17: or energy transfer from one source
01:20:08 Speaker 17: to a lower GHG emitting source.
01:20:10 Speaker 17: So the the data associated to
01:20:12 Speaker 17: that, which is one of the
01:20:16 Speaker 17: things we we currently have a
01:20:21 Speaker 17: bit of a gap in, does
01:20:24 Speaker 17: mean that that's one of those
01:20:30 Speaker 12: ones where it's it's much easier
01:20:32 Speaker 12: to tell the story of you
01:20:35 Speaker 12: put X in. If you put
01:20:37 Speaker 12: X in, here's Y coming out.
01:20:41 Speaker 12: Okay, we'll go to the Deputy
01:20:43 Speaker 12: Warden. Thank you, Madam Warden, and
01:20:45 Speaker 12: thank you, Linda and Nile, for
01:20:48 Speaker 12: your report, and thank you, Councillor
01:20:51 Speaker 12: Mackie, for your request to have
01:20:54 Speaker 12: this brought in front of us.
01:20:57 Speaker 12: You mentioned that we may have
01:20:59 Speaker 12: been over ambitious. I would suggest
01:21:02 Speaker 12: that we can't be ambitious enough.
01:21:05 Speaker 12: This group has never shied from
01:21:08 Speaker 12: an ambitious. project. Work I do
01:21:09 Speaker 12: with an work I do with
01:21:14 Speaker 12: another organization. I have a passing
01:21:17 Speaker 12: knowledge of insurance, and if you
01:21:19 Speaker 12: want to know what's going on
01:21:23 Speaker 12: in the world in in a
01:21:25 Speaker 04: sense of climate change and how
01:21:29 Speaker 04: it's changing the risks, you know,
01:21:30 Speaker 04: you you need only look at
01:21:32 Speaker 04: what the rates for reinsurance or
01:21:34 Speaker 04: the companies that our local insurance
01:21:37 Speaker 04: companies buy their insurance from, companies
01:21:39 Speaker 04: like. Farmtrio Re and Swiss Re,
01:21:41 Speaker 04: their rates have skyrocketed in the
01:21:44 Speaker 04: last number of years, sometimes in
01:21:47 Speaker 04: over 100% or more. And if
01:21:49 Speaker 04: you happen to live in a
01:21:51 Speaker 04: place like Fort McMurray, your insurance
01:21:54 Speaker 04: rates have gone 300% or more
01:21:55 Speaker 04: above where they were a number
01:21:57 Speaker 04: of years ago. So I don't
01:22:00 Speaker 04: think, as a group, we can
01:22:01 Speaker 04: be overambitious. Whether you pay it
01:22:04 Speaker 04: on your tax bill for efforts
01:22:06 Speaker 04: for groups like this to reduce
01:22:08 Speaker 04: their climate impact. or you pay
01:22:09 Speaker 04: it through your insurance rates. I
01:22:11 Speaker 04: think I'd rather pay the rate
01:22:12 Speaker 04: for prevention rather than reinstatement of
01:22:16 Speaker 04: lost assets, so to speak. So
01:22:18 Speaker 04: I think as a group, we
01:22:20 Speaker 04: should not be under ambitious, and
01:22:22 Speaker 04: I would be advocating that we
01:22:24 Speaker 04: go back to the original aspirations
01:22:25 Speaker 04: of the grown and gray. Brown
01:22:28 Speaker 04: and Gray initiative. So those are
01:22:31 Speaker 04: my comments. Thank you. Thank you.
01:22:35 Speaker 04: We'll go to Councillor Kentner. Thank
01:22:37 Speaker 04: you, Madam Warden. I will be
01:22:38 Speaker 04: supporting Option One because, quite simply,
01:22:40 Speaker 04: it is the most fiscally responsible
01:22:43 Speaker 04: choice before us. Historically, county investment
01:22:44 Speaker 04: of less than two hundred thousand
01:22:45 Speaker 04: dollars has leveraged over eight hundred
01:22:48 Speaker 04: thousand dollars. in external funding, and
01:22:50 Speaker 04: that's a four-to-one return. In an
01:22:52 Speaker 04: environment where every dollar matters, that
01:22:55 Speaker 04: level of leverage is exactly what
01:22:56 Speaker 04: we should be prioritizing and pursuing.
01:22:58 Speaker 04: It allows us to bring significant
01:23:00 Speaker 04: investment into Gray County while minimizing
01:23:02 Speaker 04: the burden on local taxpayers. So,
01:23:05 Speaker 04: if our goal is to maximize
01:23:06 Speaker 04: value, maintain budgetary restraint and discipline.
01:23:08 Speaker 04: and make smart, defensible financial decisions.
01:23:10 Speaker 04: Then option one is a clear
01:23:11 Speaker 04: choice. Thank you. Thank you, and
01:23:14 Speaker 04: I'll go to Councillor Carleton, and
01:23:15 Speaker 04: then to Councillor Pringle. Thank you,
01:23:17 Speaker 04: Warden, and thank you, Niall and
01:23:19 Speaker 04: Linda, for the report. So, at
01:23:21 Speaker 04: the recent Great Lakes St. Lawrence
01:23:22 Speaker 04: Cities Initiative conference that I was
01:23:24 Speaker 04: at, one of the points that
01:23:28 Speaker 04: really resonated with me there was
01:23:32 Speaker 04: that we should be. applying our
01:23:35 Speaker 04: decision when we're doing decisions? We
01:23:37 Speaker 04: should be applying the viewpoint of
01:23:38 Speaker 04: what will be the impact of
01:23:41 Speaker 07: that decision seven generations out. And
01:23:42 Speaker 07: I think when we made our
01:23:44 Speaker 07: original decision to approve the Going
01:23:44 Speaker 07: Green and Gray plan, our thinking
01:23:46 Speaker 07: was very much aligned with that
01:23:48 Speaker 07: thought process. Not implementing the plan
01:23:50 Speaker 07: feels like thinking of today only
01:23:51 Speaker 07: and not considering the future needs
01:23:52 Speaker 07: of the county. So I was
01:23:54 Speaker 07: very pleased to see an idea.
01:23:56 Speaker 07: of what some of those future
01:23:57 Speaker 07: impacts cost-wise would be, and that
01:23:58 Speaker 07: the cost today taking that out
01:23:59 Speaker 07: has a huge impact on down
01:24:01 Speaker 07: the road on us. The plan
01:24:03 Speaker 07: is costing us dollars today, but
01:24:05 Speaker 07: I think that's investing in our
01:24:06 Speaker 07: future and in future generations. And
01:24:07 Speaker 07: also the comment made about the
01:24:09 Speaker 07: people who are most impacted by
01:24:11 Speaker 07: this are the people who can
01:24:13 Speaker 07: least afford to do anything about
01:24:15 Speaker 07: it. I think we need to
01:24:20 Speaker 07: consider. them, and we need that
01:24:23 Speaker 07: future plan in place for the
01:24:24 Speaker 07: needs of our children and grandchildren
01:24:26 Speaker 07: well into the future. Climate change
01:24:28 Speaker 07: is happening, but it's not just
01:24:30 Speaker 07: about climate change. It's about doing
01:24:31 Speaker 07: the right thing now. We look
01:24:33 Speaker 07: at changing our energy needs from
01:24:34 Speaker 07: relying on fossil fuels to using
01:24:36 Speaker 07: like electricity. We look at different
01:24:37 Speaker 07: heating systems. We need to keep
01:24:38 Speaker 07: looking for other options that reduce
01:24:39 Speaker 07: the damage being done to our
01:24:41 Speaker 07: environment, and I think that's what
01:24:43 Speaker 18: our original purpose was in approving
01:24:56 Speaker 14: the Going Green and Gray plan.
01:24:58 Speaker 14: It was future thinking, and I
01:25:00 Speaker 14: believe we need to stay on
01:25:03 Speaker 14: track with that plan. So, again,
01:25:04 Speaker 14: looking at the tens of thousands
01:25:05 Speaker 14: it may cost us today may
01:25:10 Speaker 14: save us millions in the future.
01:25:12 Speaker 14: So, thank you. Just my
01:25:14 Speaker 14: comments. Thank you very much. We'll
01:25:17 Speaker 14: go to Councilor Pringle next. Thank
01:25:22 Speaker 14: you, Warden. Yeah, gave this a
01:25:24 Speaker 14: lot of consideration too here, and
01:25:25 Speaker 14: I'm all. Consideration two here, and
01:25:26 Speaker 14: I'm also in favor of option
01:25:29 Speaker 14: one, just for the mere fact
01:25:32 Speaker 14: that we started this only four
01:25:35 Speaker 14: years ago, and we still got
01:25:37 Speaker 14: a long way to go in
01:25:40 Speaker 14: the process to where we're going
01:25:42 Speaker 14: to end up. I do believe,
01:25:43 Speaker 14: obviously, budget deliberations are going to
01:25:45 Speaker 14: be a big part of this
01:25:46 Speaker 14: when it comes down to the
01:25:48 Speaker 14: financial aspect of it all. In
01:25:51 Speaker 14: the worst case scenario, we got
01:25:52 Speaker 14: to be option two, right? We
01:25:54 Speaker 14: still got to be modified. We
01:25:55 Speaker 14: can't lose sight of where we're
01:25:57 Speaker 14: trying to go or want to
01:25:59 Speaker 14: be, as as a county council.
01:26:00 Speaker 14: So I am in favor of
01:26:03 Speaker 14: option one. I do believe it's
01:26:04 Speaker 14: money that's going to be well
01:26:07 Speaker 14: invested. If I did have a
01:26:09 Speaker 14: question about option one, though, when
01:26:10 Speaker 14: we talk about a manager and
01:26:12 Speaker 14: a coordinator and then a contract
01:26:14 Speaker 14: coordinator, excuse me, is there any
01:26:15 Speaker 14: way? And I'm trying to figure
01:26:17 Speaker 14: this out. But when you have
01:26:19 Speaker 14: a manager, a coordinator, and a
01:26:21 Speaker 14: contract coordinator, you got three people.
01:26:22 Speaker 14: Do you need a coordinator and
01:26:24 Speaker 14: a manager? Can that not be
01:26:27 Speaker 14: a dual role, or is the
01:26:28 Speaker 14: workload that much that you? can't
01:26:31 Speaker 14: combine? I just was looking for
01:26:33 Speaker 14: a little clarity. I'm just looking
01:26:34 Speaker 14: for to save a few dollars
01:26:35 Speaker 14: if we can at the end
01:26:37 Speaker 14: of the day. Over manager and
01:26:43 Speaker 02: coordinator being two separate roles. Somebody
01:26:47 Speaker 02: can speak to that. Well, so
01:26:48 Speaker 02: through you, Madam Warden, and to
01:26:51 Speaker 02: you, Councillor Bringle. I think it's
01:26:53 Speaker 02: fair to say there's a. degree
01:26:57 Speaker 02: of a degree of we have
01:27:00 Speaker 02: staff in place at this point
01:27:02 Speaker 02: in time, but we will we
01:27:05 Speaker 02: continually, not just within the climate
01:27:07 Speaker 02: change portfolio, but across the corporation
01:27:09 Speaker 02: holistically, will continually look to see
01:27:11 Speaker 02: when resourcing can change, how we
01:27:13 Speaker 02: can make those tweaks and changes
01:27:15 Speaker 02: to make sure that we get
01:27:16 Speaker 02: the right people doing the right
01:27:21 Speaker 02: things at the right time, and
01:27:21 Speaker 15: and and as you know. I
01:27:24 Speaker 15: think I hear the question in
01:27:27 Speaker 15: terms of making sure the balance
01:27:30 Speaker 15: between managers and doers is
01:27:32 Speaker 15: is a is a is a
01:27:34 Speaker 15: tough one to is a tough
01:27:36 Speaker 15: one to get right. But I
01:27:41 Speaker 15: think it's one of the ones
01:27:43 Speaker 15: where we can continually keep our
01:27:45 Speaker 15: eyes on it. We obviously have
01:27:47 Speaker 02: some staffing in place at this
01:27:49 Speaker 02: point in time, and as that
01:27:50 Speaker 02: staffing model shifts, and that's one
01:27:54 Speaker 02: of the reasons why we we
01:27:57 Speaker 02: firmly believe keeping one of these
01:28:00 Speaker 02: two positions, one of the three.
01:28:02 Speaker 02: original positions, as a contract position,
01:28:04 Speaker 02: allows for that agility for us
01:28:06 Speaker 02: to be able to to flex.
01:28:07 Speaker 02: It also allows for the agility
01:28:08 Speaker 02: of of ensuring that we apply
01:28:10 Speaker 02: for the right funds to offset
01:28:12 Speaker 02: as many of these costs as
01:28:15 Speaker 02: possible. And so, the benefit short-term
01:28:18 Speaker 02: contract staff is you can have
01:28:21 Speaker 02: short-term projects that they deliver, and
01:28:24 Speaker 02: then and then you see the
01:28:26 Speaker 02: the changeover there. So the management
01:28:29 Speaker 02: role is a key one within
01:28:31 Speaker 02: the portfolio as a whole. Whether
01:28:33 Speaker 02: that's a full-time capacity, whether it's
01:28:37 Speaker 02: a part-time capacity. or something, we
01:28:43 Speaker 02: can continually shift as we go
01:28:46 Speaker 02: through. So I, I think I
01:28:47 Speaker 02: danced around the question a little
01:28:49 Speaker 02: bit, but I hopefully I danced
01:28:55 Speaker 02: around in a way which gives
01:28:56 Speaker 02: you some satisfaction. Okay, we'll go
01:28:58 Speaker 02: to Councillor Greg. Thank you, and
01:28:59 Speaker 02: I'm just going to open with
01:29:00 Speaker 02: one question of clarity. There was
01:29:01 Speaker 02: the slide on page four, which
01:29:03 Speaker 02: states one position in chart. one
01:29:05 Speaker 02: for 2026, but we have a
01:29:06 Speaker 02: grant-funded position that ends in the
01:29:08 Speaker 02: first quarter next year. The report
01:29:09 Speaker 02: refers to all sorts of programs
01:29:12 Speaker 02: that that grant-funded position is working
01:29:15 Speaker 02: on. Why is that not reflected
01:29:17 Speaker 02: in the 2026? Because this is
01:29:19 Speaker 02: 2026 that I'm sitting in right
01:29:21 Speaker 02: now. So that's the first question.
01:29:24 Speaker 02: Why why is it missing? Through
01:29:25 Speaker 02: the chair, thank you for the
01:29:27 Speaker 02: question, Counselor Greg. Chart one only
01:29:30 Speaker 02: reflects the. county-funded staff. So you're
01:29:32 Speaker 02: absolutely right. There are currently two
01:29:33 Speaker 02: fully grant-funded staff also advancing objectives
01:29:36 Speaker 02: within the climate change plan. But
01:29:37 Speaker 02: this graph or this chart is
01:29:40 Speaker 02: solely the county-funded roles. I just
01:29:41 Speaker 02: think that's important to note that
01:29:44 Speaker 02: the actual resources are greater right
01:29:47 Speaker 02: now than what that chart's showing.
01:29:50 Speaker 02: I'm going to push back a
01:29:52 Speaker 02: little bit on some of the
01:29:56 Speaker 02: information in the report. there's a
01:29:57 Speaker 02: an economic value position to smoke.
01:29:58 Speaker 02: Last time I checked with the
01:30:00 Speaker 02: agricultural community, when that work needs
01:30:01 Speaker 02: done, that work is going to
01:30:03 Speaker 02: get done. That's a I grew
01:30:05 Speaker 02: up in a farm, and it's
01:30:07 Speaker 02: a great privilege. But that's the
01:30:08 Speaker 02: farmer's mentality, and that's the agriculture
01:30:09 Speaker 02: mentality. Is when the sun shines,
01:30:12 Speaker 02: that's when the work's going. There's
01:30:14 Speaker 02: certain components in here. I'm going
01:30:19 Speaker 02: to push back on Councillor Kentner's
01:30:22 Speaker 02: return. on investment. I presume you're
01:30:26 Speaker 02: referring to a chart which includes
01:30:28 Speaker 02: four hundred forty-five thousand six hundred
01:30:31 Speaker 02: dollars in the green development standards
01:30:33 Speaker 02: and one hundred twenty thousand dollars
01:30:35 Speaker 02: on home retrofit. Those are programs
01:30:37 Speaker 02: that either are voluntary, that developers
01:30:39 Speaker 02: have worked in coordination with county
01:30:41 Speaker 02: staff on creating, which is great
01:30:44 Speaker 02: if it's if people opt in.
01:30:45 Speaker 02: But there's a But there's an
01:30:49 Speaker 02: underlying consideration, and people will do
01:30:52 Speaker 02: what they can afford, and they
01:30:54 Speaker 02: will change their windows in their
01:30:55 Speaker 02: house if they can afford it.
01:30:57 Speaker 02: And when they can afford it,
01:31:00 Speaker 02: they will build to a higher
01:31:02 Speaker 02: green development standard if they can
01:31:02 Speaker 02: afford it. Right now, if you
01:31:05 Speaker 02: talk to realtors out there in
01:31:07 Speaker 02: the world, what's turning in the
01:31:10 Speaker 02: real estate market? Price points of
01:31:12 Speaker 02: 275 to 475. That's what the
01:31:13 Speaker 02: middle class can afford and get
01:31:15 Speaker 02: mortgage funding for. What's sitting on
01:31:17 Speaker 02: the market? in a lot of
01:31:18 Speaker 02: locales is 700, 650 up. People
01:31:20 Speaker 02: cannot get mortgages for it because
01:31:23 Speaker 02: it's not proportionate to the level
01:31:26 Speaker 02: of household incomes that people need
01:31:29 Speaker 02: to carry that mortgage. That's a
01:31:30 Speaker 02: simple fact. So I'm going to
01:31:33 Speaker 02: push back on the return on
01:31:35 Speaker 02: investment that's been realized over years.
01:31:39 Speaker 02: I think the modified direction that
01:31:41 Speaker 02: we're in right now is the
01:31:42 Speaker 02: way we should be continuing to
01:31:43 Speaker 02: go. We are responsible for what
01:31:45 Speaker 02: we can affect. and that's our
01:31:48 Speaker 02: corporate actions. We do not have
01:31:51 Speaker 02: control over people's actions outside of
01:31:53 Speaker 02: the corporation in the community. We
01:31:55 Speaker 02: would like to think maybe they'll
01:31:57 Speaker 02: make the right choice, but at
01:32:00 Speaker 02: the same time, we could have
01:32:02 Speaker 02: the next report before us here
01:32:03 Speaker 02: at council, and it's advocating for
01:32:06 Speaker 02: a new tax class for the
01:32:08 Speaker 02: town of Blue Mountains, and all
01:32:10 Speaker 02: the hands go up in the
01:32:13 Speaker 02: air to support the province creating
01:32:16 Speaker 02: an expansion of this tax class,
01:32:19 Speaker 02: which is there to draw thousands.
01:32:20 Speaker 02: of vehicles up to Gray County
01:32:24 Speaker 02: for weekends or tourism activities, and
01:32:27 Speaker 02: in doing so, create massive amounts
01:32:29 Speaker 02: of vehicle emissions. So I struggle
01:32:31 Speaker 02: with playing the role of hypocrite.
01:32:33 Speaker 02: On one time, and you know,
01:32:36 Speaker 02: here's one initiative we want to
01:32:37 Speaker 02: do everything we can, and then
01:32:39 Speaker 02: we flip entirely on the next,
01:32:41 Speaker 02: and we support this next initiative
01:32:43 Speaker 19: because we call it good. for
01:32:47 Speaker 19: business, or we have a different
01:32:54 Speaker 19: motivation that that supports it, but
01:32:55 Speaker 19: in effect, they're they're in conflict
01:32:57 Speaker 12: with each other, and also it's
01:33:00 Speaker 12: you know I would challenge anyone
01:33:01 Speaker 12: that is a strong advocate for
01:33:03 Speaker 12: option one here, but if you
01:33:04 Speaker 12: come back and you tell me
01:33:06 Speaker 12: you had a great holiday in
01:33:08 Speaker 12: Costa Rica, where hydro corridors are
01:33:10 Speaker 12: being cut through the rainforest, and
01:33:13 Speaker 12: we're advocating for everything we can
01:33:15 Speaker 12: do here, but you're telling me
01:33:16 Speaker 12: how great. this travel by plane
01:33:18 Speaker 12: and your holidays were. I'm also
01:33:21 Speaker 12: going to push back against what
01:33:24 Speaker 12: I'm hearing back because we have
01:33:27 Speaker 12: to be in it. If we're
01:33:29 Speaker 12: sincere, it's all of our lifestyle
01:33:32 Speaker 12: that's that we have to consider
01:33:34 Speaker 12: here. So I have us an
01:33:36 Speaker 12: extreme reluctance to go too broad
01:33:38 Speaker 12: in what the I would agree
01:33:41 Speaker 12: with Councillor Mackie. I think going
01:33:44 Speaker 12: to the too extensively to the
01:33:46 Speaker 12: communities. We have community groups that.
01:33:47 Speaker 01: can do some of this work
01:33:49 Speaker 01: for us, and we see that
01:33:51 Speaker 01: in other initiatives. Volunteer groups are
01:33:53 Speaker 01: active participants in advocating, and those
01:33:55 Speaker 01: are those initiatives should remain. If
01:33:57 Speaker 01: you're truly passionate about this, then
01:33:58 Speaker 01: get out there, roll up your
01:34:01 Speaker 01: arm sleeves, and engage with with
01:34:02 Speaker 01: various other parties in the communities.
01:34:04 Speaker 01: But for now, we should be
01:34:06 Speaker 01: focused entirely on what we can
01:34:07 Speaker 01: control, and realize there's a component
01:34:11 Speaker 01: that we can't control, and realize
01:34:14 Speaker 14: we do. what we can afford.
01:34:16 Speaker 14: In the same way, individuals, homeowners,
01:34:18 Speaker 14: various other people will do what
01:34:20 Speaker 14: they can afford at their home
01:34:22 Speaker 14: in terms of improving heat loss,
01:34:25 Speaker 14: making it more thermal, and reducing
01:34:27 Speaker 14: utility costs. We don't have control
01:34:30 Speaker 14: over those people. In fact, we're
01:34:32 Speaker 14: more injurious at every level of
01:34:33 Speaker 14: government. The more punitive we we
01:34:35 Speaker 14: tax their their household, their more
01:34:37 Speaker 14: monthly mortgage payments, and doing so
01:34:39 Speaker 14: in taxes. So, those are my
01:34:41 Speaker 14: comments. I'm happy with status option
01:34:43 Speaker 14: two at this time. Still, thanks.
01:34:45 Speaker 14: Okay, thank you. Other discussion. Okay,
01:34:47 Speaker 14: so I don't see any further
01:34:49 Speaker 14: hands up. So the motion on
01:34:50 Speaker 14: the floor is to. Oh, sorry,
01:34:52 Speaker 14: Councillor Kentner. Well, I just want
01:34:54 Speaker 14: to make the point that option
01:34:56 Speaker 14: or the most expensive choice that
01:34:58 Speaker 14: we could possibly make is to
01:35:01 Speaker 14: ignore the evidence in front of
01:35:02 Speaker 14: us. and in Gray County, our
01:35:03 Speaker 14: agriculture sector is already facing increased
01:35:05 Speaker 14: pressure from extreme weather. Failing to
01:35:08 Speaker 14: invest now doesn't really avoid costs;
01:35:09 Speaker 01: it shifts them into the future
01:35:11 Speaker 01: in the form of crop losses,
01:35:14 Speaker 01: infrastructure damage, and economic instability. Option
01:35:16 Speaker 01: one is a relatively modest investment
01:35:18 Speaker 01: that not only leverages significant external
01:35:20 Speaker 01: funding but also helps us to
01:35:24 Speaker 01: reduce long-term risk. From the fiscal
01:35:27 Speaker 01: standpoint, acting now is far more
01:35:28 Speaker 01: responsible than paying. more later for
01:35:29 Speaker 01: the consequences of doing nothing. Thank
01:35:34 Speaker 20: you. Okay. Thank you. Any other
01:35:36 Speaker 20: further comments? Okay. So the motion
01:35:40 Speaker 20: that has been moved and seconded
01:35:43 Speaker 20: that's on the floor is to
01:35:45 Speaker 20: receive. So if it carries through
01:35:48 Speaker 20: as received, the carry on is
01:35:49 Speaker 20: option two. The way that that
01:35:52 Speaker 20: we're on the current course in
01:35:53 Speaker 20: terms of budget deliberation. If there's
01:35:55 Speaker 20: an amendment to the main motion
01:35:58 Speaker 20: for option one or otherwise, I'm
01:36:00 Speaker 20: going to look to the deputy
01:36:01 Speaker 20: CAO. It would require. an amendment
01:36:03 Speaker 20: to the main motion. That's what
01:36:04 Speaker 20: I wanted to say. Okay, so
01:36:07 Speaker 20: Deputy CEO, thank you, and through
01:36:08 Speaker 20: you, Madam Warden. Just to build
01:36:17 Speaker 08: on on the the summary that
01:36:20 Speaker 08: you've just provided, yes, the receipt
01:36:22 Speaker 08: for information means there's no change
01:36:25 Speaker 08: tomorrow. But certainly, based on the
01:36:26 Speaker 08: conversation, we could bring back bring
01:36:30 Speaker 08: back the option one as part
01:36:34 Speaker 08: the budget deliberations for County Council
01:36:37 Speaker 08: to look through that budget process.
01:36:39 Speaker 08: And again, then we wouldn't. And
01:36:43 Speaker 08: again, we wouldn't necessarily need a
01:36:45 Speaker 08: direction. We did bring this report
01:36:48 Speaker 08: for the conversation. The conversation has
01:36:53 Speaker 08: been good, and I think the
01:36:55 Speaker 08: the indication is there to help
01:36:58 Speaker 08: us build a budget which responds
01:36:59 Speaker 08: to that, but builds in the
01:37:03 Speaker 08: modified approach, which is the for
01:37:06 Speaker 08: information, the status quo, and then
01:37:08 Speaker 08: we could give council that other
01:37:10 Speaker 08: option if needed. And indeed, through
01:37:13 Speaker 08: the budget process, explore other options.
01:37:15 Speaker 08: So yes, just to confirm that
01:37:17 Speaker 08: if the the if it's just
01:37:19 Speaker 08: received for information, it's business as
01:37:22 Speaker 08: usual tomorrow and the next. step
01:37:24 Speaker 08: would be through the budget process,
01:37:26 Speaker 08: and we'd be open to council
01:37:28 Speaker 08: council direction at that point. Okay,
01:37:31 Speaker 08: so I leave it to our
01:37:32 Speaker 08: committee. The whole oh, sorry, Councillor
01:37:35 Speaker 08: Hutchinson, I'll go to you next
01:37:36 Speaker 08: to either carry forward with the
01:37:39 Speaker 08: recommended motion. There isn't the option
01:37:42 Speaker 08: to add an amendment in for
01:37:43 Speaker 08: further direction, and regardless, receiving this
01:37:45 Speaker 08: report allows staff to put together
01:37:47 Speaker 08: the options to consider when it
01:37:52 Speaker 16: comes to the budget process later
01:37:53 Speaker 16: in the year. Councillor Hutchinson. Thank
01:37:57 Speaker 16: you, Madam Ward. So my question
01:37:59 Speaker 16: is, if we amend to like
01:38:01 Speaker 16: option one, within this fiscal year,
01:38:02 Speaker 16: the twenty-six budget which we're in,
01:38:04 Speaker 16: we change that. That's would have
01:38:05 Speaker 16: to because the budget's been approved
01:38:07 Speaker 16: with what we're currently at. So
01:38:08 Speaker 16: status quo, just stay where we
01:38:10 Speaker 16: are, and then bring it back.
01:38:12 Speaker 16: Option one as as a for
01:38:14 Speaker 16: consideration twenty-seven. For consideration twenty seven
01:38:16 Speaker 16: is is that how I read
01:38:17 Speaker 16: this? Because I I think just
01:38:18 Speaker 16: as we are now, we're state
01:38:20 Speaker 16: status quo. But to change it
01:38:22 Speaker 16: or mend it, we have to
01:38:24 Speaker 16: actually we have to go outside
01:38:26 Speaker 16: the budget to approve that. Through
01:38:27 Speaker 16: you, Warden, as it currently stands,
01:38:29 Speaker 16: technically based on the the way
01:38:30 Speaker 16: the report's written, and the notion
01:38:32 Speaker 16: that if this were to be
01:38:33 Speaker 16: received from if. This were to
01:38:34 Speaker 16: be received from information, we could
01:38:36 Speaker 16: draft the budget as as per
01:38:39 Speaker 16: the modified approach, but that doesn't
01:38:41 Speaker 16: prevent the council from considering other
01:38:42 Speaker 16: options at the time of budget
01:38:45 Speaker 01: considerations. If, however, there is a
01:38:47 Speaker 01: desire to see a spring forwarded
01:38:48 Speaker 01: draft budget, initial budget with option
01:38:50 Speaker 01: one considerations in in the overall
01:38:54 Speaker 01: budget, then as the word previously
01:38:55 Speaker 01: indicated, that would require an amended
01:38:58 Speaker 01: motion to be brought forward, and
01:38:59 Speaker 01: yeah, we'd be happy to help
01:39:03 Speaker 01: craft that if if that were
01:39:05 Speaker 01: the desire. But it would be
01:39:08 Speaker 01: also in the realm of for
01:39:09 Speaker 01: for budget considerations. But if the
01:39:12 Speaker 01: desire from this group is to
01:39:16 Speaker 01: proceed with option one, I think
01:39:18 Speaker 01: the cleanest approach would be to
01:39:20 Speaker 01: provide that direction. Either way, though,
01:39:24 Speaker 01: as Nile indicated, those. Though, as
01:39:26 Speaker 01: Niall indicated, those options can still
01:39:28 Speaker 01: be explored as part of the
01:39:30 Speaker 01: budget considerations. But having firmer direction,
01:39:34 Speaker 01: I guess, of what to include
01:39:40 Speaker 01: in that draft budget, we're open
01:39:43 Speaker 01: to options and considerations of what
01:39:45 Speaker 01: this council wants to direct. Right
01:39:46 Speaker 01: now, technically, we would just draft
01:39:51 Speaker 01: it as modified approach. Doesn't mean
01:39:52 Speaker 01: to say that option one or
01:39:56 Speaker 01: option three or any combination thereof
01:40:00 Speaker 01: could still be debated at the
01:40:02 Speaker 01: time of budget considerations. Okay. we'll
01:40:06 Speaker 05: go to Councillor Warden. Thank you,
01:40:09 Speaker 05: Madam Warden, and through you. Listening
01:40:12 Speaker 05: to the conversation, I'm more inclined
01:40:14 Speaker 05: to. We speak by motion, both
01:40:17 Speaker 05: at the local and the regional
01:40:18 Speaker 05: level. So I'm more inclined to
01:40:22 Speaker 05: put an amendment towards just looking
01:40:24 Speaker 05: at the options of option one.
01:40:29 Speaker 05: And I just did want to
01:40:32 Speaker 05: address a couple comments from from
01:40:36 Speaker 05: my colleague, especially in relation to
01:40:41 Speaker 05: the OTE tax class. What that
01:40:44 Speaker 05: actually does has been around for
01:40:46 Speaker 05: 23 years, and all that's doing
01:40:48 Speaker 05: is is just a shift of
01:40:50 Speaker 05: taxes, not inviting more visitors if
01:40:53 Speaker 05: anything. it actually gives more heads
01:40:56 Speaker 05: and beds, so people want day
01:40:58 Speaker 05: tripping. So it will actually have
01:41:00 Speaker 05: less impact because people won't be
01:41:06 Speaker 05: driving up and back, you know,
01:41:11 Speaker 05: like they do for for other
01:41:14 Speaker 05: day tripping activities. I just wanted
01:41:16 Speaker 14: to address that because it was
01:41:19 Speaker 14: in the back of my head.
01:41:21 Speaker 14: But looking at, I would put
01:41:22 Speaker 14: forth an amendment to for option
01:41:24 Speaker 14: one considerations to the budget process
01:41:25 Speaker 14: and whatever. However, the clerk would
01:41:28 Speaker 14: want to word that. Okay, thank
01:41:30 Speaker 14: you. So that's moved, and I
01:41:33 Speaker 14: see it seconded by Councillor Pringle.
01:41:35 Speaker 14: Moved by Councillor Bourgoin. seconded by
01:41:38 Speaker 14: Councillor Pringle. The clerk has drafted
01:41:40 Speaker 14: the the wording that would reflect
01:41:41 Speaker 14: what you've just moved, and so
01:41:42 Speaker 14: it reads, and it's up there
01:41:43 Speaker 14: on the screens. It reads that
01:41:45 Speaker 14: the motion to that the motion
01:41:47 Speaker 14: be the main motion be amended
01:41:48 Speaker 14: to strike out receive for information
01:41:50 Speaker 14: and insert the second clause, being
01:41:51 Speaker 14: that Grey County Council include in
01:41:56 Speaker 14: the 2027 draft budget the consideration.
01:41:59 Speaker 14: slash funding to maintain the commitment
01:42:02 Speaker 14: to the adopted net zero by
01:42:06 Speaker 14: 2050 targets to advance the implementation
01:42:09 Speaker 14: of the 21 community actions and
01:42:11 Speaker 14: the 13 corporate actions. This is
01:42:13 Speaker 02: known as Option One in Report
01:42:14 Speaker 02: CAOR CW 1526 approved going and
01:42:16 Speaker 02: green gray implementation. So that reflects
01:42:17 Speaker 02: what you've moved and seconded. Good.
01:42:19 Speaker 02: Okay. So this is now on
01:42:20 Speaker 02: the floor for. discussion. This amendment,
01:42:22 Speaker 02: before we then, before we would
01:42:23 Speaker 02: then vote on the main motion,
01:42:25 Speaker 02: Councillor Debrine. Thank you, Warden, and
01:42:27 Speaker 02: great discussion. I just want to
01:42:33 Speaker 02: clarify because when Deputy CAO Laval
01:42:36 Speaker 02: was speaking, it was when the
01:42:37 Speaker 08: 2027 budget comes forward, it would
01:42:41 Speaker 08: be as modified, but that there
01:42:43 Speaker 08: would also be options. So be
01:42:44 Speaker 08: option one considerations, so that we
01:42:48 Speaker 08: would have all of the information
01:42:51 Speaker 08: and the ability to compare. The
01:42:54 Speaker 08: I think we all agree, inaction
01:42:58 Speaker 08: or eliminating, abandoning is not on
01:43:01 Speaker 08: the table. But as far as
01:43:04 Speaker 08: the next budget going forward, we're
01:43:06 Speaker 08: still continuing with modified for the
01:43:08 Speaker 08: twenty twenty six budget. and we'll
01:43:11 Speaker 08: get all of the information for
01:43:13 Speaker 08: the 2027 budget. This decision is
01:43:14 Speaker 08: based on what is going to
01:43:18 Speaker 08: be approved going forward. I just
01:43:20 Speaker 08: want to clarify that choosing option
01:43:22 Speaker 08: one isn't changing anything this year,
01:43:24 Speaker 08: and that we're going to get
01:43:25 Speaker 08: both information, not just option one.
01:43:27 Speaker 08: WCO. Thank you, Madam Warden. I
01:43:29 Speaker 08: think the. I think we get
01:43:31 Speaker 08: to the same result in just
01:43:35 Speaker 08: different pathways. So I think the
01:43:37 Speaker 08: recommendation, the amended recommendation, which is
01:43:40 Speaker 08: on the floor, provides clear guidance
01:43:41 Speaker 08: to staff that what we will
01:43:44 Speaker 08: be building, if it is supported,
01:43:45 Speaker 08: what we will build into the
01:43:48 Speaker 08: base budget assumptions for 2027 would
01:43:51 Speaker 08: actually see us increasing the staff
01:43:53 Speaker 08: request from what was in the
01:43:57 Speaker 08: 2026. But that doesn't preclude any
01:43:58 Speaker 08: conversation about what coming back to
01:44:01 Speaker 08: the modified approach would. look like
01:44:02 Speaker 08: through the budget process, and we
01:44:07 Speaker 08: will certainly be able to articulate
01:44:09 Speaker 08: that through the business plans that
01:44:17 Speaker 21: you will see. But if it's
01:44:22 Speaker 21: supported, it just changes what we
01:44:28 Speaker 21: put into the base budget. It
01:44:29 Speaker 21: doesn't change the conversation that can
01:44:37 Speaker 21: happen during the budget process. Okay,
01:44:42 Speaker 21: thank you. Any further discussion on
01:44:45 Speaker 21: this amendment, Councillor Greg? Would staff
01:44:46 Speaker 21: be able to present what your
01:44:48 Speaker 21: projected tax levy increase is at
01:44:50 Speaker 21: this time? whether you want to
01:44:53 Speaker 21: comment on both. There's two. There's
01:44:55 Speaker 21: two budgets: the actual budget and
01:44:58 Speaker 21: then the tax levy component. I'm
01:44:59 Speaker 21: not sure if you're prepared to
01:45:04 Speaker 01: comment on one or both, but
01:45:08 Speaker 01: that might be helpful at this
01:45:10 Speaker 01: time. And that's still not including
01:45:12 Speaker 01: the fact the upper tiers are
01:45:19 Speaker 01: going to take on the funding
01:45:52 Speaker 01: of the conservation authorities in a
01:45:53 Speaker 01: not so distant future. I would
01:45:55 Speaker 01: presume. Through you, Warden, all the
01:45:57 Speaker 01: numbers we would have at this
01:45:58 Speaker 01: stage would. be the 2027 projected
01:46:00 Speaker 01: budget at that time. I don't
01:46:03 Speaker 01: have those numbers in front of
01:46:05 Speaker 01: me, but those those obviously were
01:46:06 Speaker 01: part of the budget discussions when
01:46:17 Speaker 01: the 2026 budget were approved. We
01:46:18 Speaker 01: are still working through the budgets
01:46:21 Speaker 01: as as we speak. Each department
01:46:31 Speaker 01: has been working to to draft
01:46:31 Speaker 01: up the budgets. We'll be reviewing
01:46:36 Speaker 01: those with. the with the CEO's
01:46:38 Speaker 01: office and the department heads over
01:46:39 Speaker 01: the next few weeks, and then
01:46:42 Speaker 01: we anticipate obviously bringing back a
01:46:46 Speaker 01: draft budget to this group in
01:46:48 Speaker 01: the in the next couple of
01:46:54 Speaker 01: months. So probably August September we're
01:46:59 Speaker 01: we're targeting in terms of starting
01:47:00 Speaker 01: to bring forward some of those
01:47:01 Speaker 01: numbers. So we don't have the
01:47:02 Speaker 01: full picture at this stage in
01:47:14 Speaker 22: terms of of the numbers, other
01:47:16 Speaker 22: than what we had in the
01:47:21 Speaker 22: 2027 projected by. Projected budget in
01:47:23 Speaker 22: terms of levy contribution. I don't
01:47:31 Speaker 22: know if Director Spicer or Edie
01:47:37 Speaker 22: Wood has some of those numbers
01:47:39 Speaker 22: at their fingertips, but that's that's
01:47:45 Speaker 22: that's all we would have at
01:47:49 Speaker 22: this stage to to identify.
01:47:51 Speaker 22: We know, as you've highlighted, a
01:47:57 Speaker 22: couple pressures that there's going to
01:48:03 Speaker 23: be likely some increases to those
01:48:10 Speaker 23: 2027 projections based on some other
01:48:15 Speaker 23: changes that have happened throughout the
01:48:18 Speaker 23: year. So so that's but we're
01:48:21 Speaker 23: still working through. those numbers as
01:48:29 Speaker 23: we speak. Director Spicer, did you
01:48:34 Speaker 23: want to add anything? Thank you,
01:48:39 Speaker 23: Madam Warden. And as Cao Scherzer
01:48:44 Speaker 23: commented, the 2026 tax levy was
01:48:49 Speaker 23: eighty-three million nine hundred fifty-one thousand
01:48:55 Speaker 23: eight hundred dollars. The 202 The
01:48:57 Speaker 01: 2027 projection is 91,275,200, which is
01:48:59 Speaker 01: an increase of just over 7.3
01:49:00 Speaker 01: million dollars. And as we know,
01:49:02 Speaker 01: there's been a number of things
01:49:04 Speaker 01: that have changed since we came
01:49:05 Speaker 01: up with our estimates for the
01:49:06 Speaker 01: 2027 budget, and we're working with
01:49:08 Speaker 01: departments to come up with numbers
01:49:10 Speaker 01: that we're going to be happy
01:49:15 Speaker 01: to present to you later. Okay.
01:49:17 Speaker 01: Thank you. Any other questions, comments?
01:49:21 Speaker 01: Okay. So voting on the on
01:49:24 Speaker 01: the amendment that's been put forth,
01:49:27 Speaker 01: moved and seconded. All those in
01:49:29 Speaker 01: favor of the amendment. And those
01:49:31 Speaker 01: opposed to the amendment. Okay. I
01:49:32 Speaker 01: we just wanted to double check
01:49:34 Speaker 24: our count. That motion is carried.
01:49:36 Speaker 24: So the amendment. will now go
01:49:37 Speaker 24: to the main motion. So now
01:49:40 Speaker 24: we will vote on the main
01:49:43 Speaker 24: motion. We're just double checking our
01:49:45 Speaker 24: numbers as we have a few
01:49:46 Speaker 01: absences. Our normal numbers are not
01:49:50 Speaker 01: here. Okay. While the clerks are
01:49:53 Speaker 01: pulling up the main motion revised,
01:49:54 Speaker 01: I'll look to Councillor Mackey. Thank
01:49:56 Speaker 01: you, Madam Warden. Just wondering if
01:49:58 Speaker 01: we could have a recorded vote,
01:49:59 Speaker 01: please. Okay. So there's a request
01:50:01 Speaker 01: for a recorded vote on the
01:50:04 Speaker 01: amendment to the main motion, Madam
01:50:06 Speaker 01: Clerk, or is that for the
01:50:08 Speaker 01: main motion, the amendment? Okay. The
01:50:09 Speaker 01: clerk will set that up. There
01:50:11 Speaker 01: will be a break after this.
01:50:14 Speaker 01: I did not anticipate the length
01:50:18 Speaker 01: of time when we were coming
01:50:20 Speaker 01: up a little short on the
01:50:22 Speaker 01: break time. Lunch is not until
01:50:24 Speaker 01: twelve thirty. Thank you. So, just
01:50:27 Speaker 01: to confirm, this is for the
01:50:29 Speaker 01: the amendment, the one that was
01:50:32 Speaker 01: just voted on. correct? Okay, great.
01:50:35 Speaker 01: So, Councillor Mack, you can just
01:50:36 Speaker 01: repeat it. Councillor Mackie is opposed.
01:50:41 Speaker 01: Councillor McKay is absent. Councillor Carleton,
01:50:45 Speaker 01: in favor. Councillor Pringle, in favor.
01:50:48 Speaker 01: Councillor McQueen, is opposed. Councillor Nielsen
01:50:49 Speaker 01: is absent. Councillor Patterson opposed. Councillor
01:50:51 Speaker 01: Dickert is absent. Councillor Kentner in
01:50:52 Speaker 01: favor. Councillor Kieveny opposed. Councillor Body
01:50:55 Speaker 01: opposed. Councillor Gregg opposed. Councillor Milm
01:50:57 Speaker 01: in favor. In favor. Councillor Debrine
01:51:00 Speaker 01: in favor. Warden Matrosovs. In favor.
01:51:01 Speaker 01: In favor, Councillor Bourdon. In favor,
01:51:02 Speaker 01: Councillor Eccles. I will wait. Please.
01:51:04 Speaker 01: Did you just vote by hand?
01:51:05 Speaker 01: In favor. In favor. Councillor Tom
01:51:06 Speaker 01: Hutchinson. In favor. In favor. Thank
01:51:08 Speaker 01: you, and that. motion carries fifty
01:51:09 Speaker 01: to thirty-five. Okay. Okay. Thank you
01:51:11 Speaker 01: very much. So we will now
01:51:12 Speaker 01: move to the. We are now
02:02:35 Speaker 01: going to vote on the main
02:02:36 Speaker 01: motion as it's been amended. So,
02:02:38 Speaker 01: Madam Clerk, if you can have
02:03:01 Speaker 01: the main motion up, just so
02:03:03 Speaker 01: everybody's clear on the way it
02:03:05 Speaker 01: reads, although it's very similar to
02:03:06 Speaker 01: what we just looked at. So
02:03:07 Speaker 01: while that's coming up, we're back
02:03:09 Speaker 01: to any further. discussion on the
02:03:10 Speaker 01: main motion as amended. Councillor McQueen.
02:03:13 Speaker 01: Thank you, Madam Warden. I was
02:03:15 Speaker 01: thinking that maybe this motion could
02:03:17 Speaker 01: be deferred to our next council
02:03:18 Speaker 01: meeting. Only from certain part, it
02:03:19 Speaker 01: was deferred from the last meeting
02:03:20 Speaker 01: of an individual that was was
02:03:21 Speaker 01: in here. We have three individuals
02:03:23 Speaker 01: that are missing, which is a
02:03:24 Speaker 01: a normal amount. Normal county councils,
02:03:27 Speaker 01: we have full full slate. So
02:03:31 Speaker 01: I would move an amendment. that
02:03:34 Speaker 01: this motion be deferred to the
02:03:37 Speaker 01: next county council meeting. Okay, so
02:03:39 Speaker 01: there's a motion to defer. Before
02:03:42 Speaker 01: I look for a second, or
02:03:44 Speaker 01: Madam Clerk, this is committee of
02:03:46 Speaker 01: the whole. So at the time
02:03:47 Speaker 01: of the approval of the minutes,
02:03:49 Speaker 01: it could be pulled for further
02:03:51 Speaker 01: discussion. Correct. So if an absent
02:03:58 Speaker 01: member so wished to, they could
02:04:00 Speaker 01: pull it at the council meeting
02:04:03 Speaker 01: that we'll all be at, and
02:04:05 Speaker 01: we could enter into discussion at
02:04:07 Speaker 25: that point in time. is there
02:04:09 Speaker 25: a seconder to defer? Okay, I
02:04:11 Speaker 25: am not seeing any hands to
02:04:12 Speaker 25: defer a seconder to defer, so
02:04:13 Speaker 25: we'll we'll need to leave that,
02:04:16 Speaker 25: Councillor McQueen. Okay, so in which
02:04:19 Speaker 25: case then, any further discussion on
02:04:21 Speaker 25: the main motion as it's been
02:04:23 Speaker 25: amended? Okay, and I will then
02:04:25 Speaker 25: ask for a show of hands.
02:04:28 Speaker 25: Then, all those in favour? Okay,
02:04:30 Speaker 25: and those opposed? Okay, so that
02:04:32 Speaker 25: motion is carried. Thank you. Thank
02:04:35 Speaker 25: you very much, everyone, for your
02:04:37 Speaker 25: patience. We are at twelve o'clock.
02:04:39 Speaker 25: Coming up to twelve o'clock. If
02:04:41 Speaker 25: we could reconvene at twelve thirty.
02:04:42 Speaker 25: Ah, sorry. No, lunch is twelve
02:04:43 Speaker 25: thirty. If we could reconvene tightly
02:04:44 Speaker 25: at twelve ten to carry on
02:04:47 Speaker 25: and get as much business as
02:04:49 Speaker 25: we can before we do choose
02:04:51 Speaker 25: our lunch break. It's a cold
02:04:53 Speaker 25: lunch, so we have a little
02:04:55 Speaker 25: bit of waving room there from
02:04:56 Speaker 25: twelve thirty. But we do have
02:04:58 Speaker 25: closed session items. etc. So we'll
02:05:00 Speaker 25: need to take a break at
02:05:02 Speaker 25: this time. Thank you. Could I
02:05:04 Speaker 25: please invite our committee, the whole
02:05:05 Speaker 25: members, back to the horseshoe as
02:05:06 Speaker 25: we are approaching ten after? Okay,
02:05:08 Speaker 25: we have the go ahead from
02:05:11 Speaker 25: technology. We have the go-ahead from
02:05:12 Speaker 25: technology that we can proceed. So
02:05:15 Speaker 25: we are going to move on
02:05:16 Speaker 25: to the next item, and then
02:05:18 Speaker 25: I'm just going to keep watching
02:05:19 Speaker 25: to see how we are when
02:05:21 Speaker 25: we get to the the lunch
02:05:23 Speaker 25: window, so that we can have
02:05:25 Speaker 25: enough time to so we can
02:05:27 Speaker 25: be careful that we don't end
02:05:29 Speaker 25: up thinking that we're going to
02:05:31 Speaker 25: be almost done, and then it
02:05:33 Speaker 25: turns out we're not almost done.
02:05:37 Speaker 25: So I want to be be
02:05:39 Speaker 25: conscious of that. So let's move
02:05:42 Speaker 25: ahead then with item 7B. It's
02:05:43 Speaker 25: recommended that report TRCW 2626 regarding
02:05:44 Speaker 25: outcomes of the May twenty six
02:05:46 Speaker 25: urban road and roads exchange tax
02:05:48 Speaker 25: force meeting, be received for information.
02:05:50 Speaker 25: So this is just to receive
02:05:52 Speaker 25: for information. This update report may
02:05:53 Speaker 25: ask for a mover and a
02:05:56 Speaker 25: seconder. Got it moved by Councillor
02:05:58 Speaker 25: Mackie, seconded by Councillor Eccles. It's
02:06:00 Speaker 25: now on the floor for an
02:06:02 Speaker 25: introduction from Director Hoy. Okay, thank
02:06:03 Speaker 25: you. Through you, Warden, I got.
02:06:04 Speaker 25: bumped into Scott's spot here somehow.
02:06:06 Speaker 25: Had to put that in there.
02:06:08 Speaker 25: So this is a report. Why
02:06:10 Speaker 25: am I here? So this report
02:06:13 Speaker 25: is received for information. Hopefully, not
02:06:15 Speaker 25: another report with a bunch of
02:06:16 Speaker 25: options that I don't want you
02:06:18 Speaker 25: to vote on. But anyway, anyway,
02:06:19 Speaker 25: it's a summary of all the
02:06:21 Speaker 25: good information and thoughts gathered at
02:06:27 Speaker 25: the last task force meeting. So
02:06:29 Speaker 25: the task force meeting on May
02:06:31 Speaker 25: 26, we also held a workshop
02:06:33 Speaker 25: prior. For the Roads Exchange Task
02:06:35 Speaker 25: Force and a lot of staff
02:06:36 Speaker 25: members there, so pretty much everybody
02:06:38 Speaker 25: brought like a public works type
02:06:39 Speaker 25: person with good knowledge of the
02:06:44 Speaker 25: assets, and then typically a financial
02:06:47 Speaker 25: person as well. Except George and
02:06:49 Speaker 25: Bluffs, they only need to send
02:06:52 Speaker 25: the mayor because she knows all
02:06:53 Speaker 25: that stuff already. But it was
02:06:55 Speaker 25: a really good meeting at Syndam
02:06:57 Speaker 25: and a good chance to talk
02:06:59 Speaker 25: with everybody because this has gone
02:07:00 Speaker 25: back so long. This task force,
02:07:03 Speaker 25: as we all know, and the
02:07:06 Speaker 25: and the Roads Exchange coming. out
02:07:08 Speaker 25: of the the master transportation plan,
02:07:09 Speaker 25: but a lot of the people
02:07:11 Speaker 25: don't necessarily know all the process
02:07:13 Speaker 25: that has gone on. Like it's
02:07:15 Speaker 25: been it's been a bit of
02:07:17 Speaker 25: a long haul. But if you
02:07:19 Speaker 25: just read the TMP and then
02:07:20 Speaker 25: tried to rationalize it with you
02:07:23 Speaker 25: know where the where the proposals
02:07:24 Speaker 25: are at now, it's hard to
02:07:26 Speaker 25: kind of justify where they how
02:07:30 Speaker 25: they got there. So it was
02:07:31 Speaker 25: good to meet with everybody and
02:07:34 Speaker 25: talk about all those options. And
02:07:36 Speaker 25: I would say that when you
02:07:40 Speaker 25: look at even our our initial
02:07:41 Speaker 25: proposal, as far as the funding
02:07:43 Speaker 25: goes, it has come a long
02:07:44 Speaker 25: way since then, and that really
02:07:47 Speaker 25: is because of the municipal staff
02:07:49 Speaker 25: feedback. You know, they've been very
02:07:51 Speaker 25: good to to really delve into
02:07:53 Speaker 25: all the intricacies and the scenarios
02:07:54 Speaker 25: and that type of thing. So,
02:07:56 Speaker 25: I wanted to just thank all
02:07:58 Speaker 25: the municipal staff members. They reviewed
02:08:00 Speaker 25: the pre work material in many
02:08:03 Speaker 25: cases, submitted a written summary, and
02:08:05 Speaker 25: all our finance staff who has
02:08:06 Speaker 25: you know been working through these.
02:08:09 Speaker 25: scenarios, and and as time marches
02:08:10 Speaker 25: on, things you know the prices
02:08:13 Speaker 25: go up. There's other years falling
02:08:14 Speaker 25: off, and jobs that kind of
02:08:17 Speaker 25: are in the door that we
02:08:19 Speaker 25: do, and then add on. So
02:08:21 Speaker 25: there is a lot of kind
02:08:24 Speaker 25: of ongoing number crunching going on.
02:08:26 Speaker 25: So I just wanted to make
02:08:27 Speaker 25: a a quick explanation of the
02:08:29 Speaker 25: versions A, B, and C. So
02:08:30 Speaker 25: and I did want to mention
02:08:32 Speaker 25: first on the on the page
02:08:33 Speaker 25: four, I guess, of the report,
02:08:35 Speaker 25: you will see that version on
02:08:36 Speaker 25: the chart. it says version A
02:08:39 Speaker 25: was the twenty-nine million dollars, which
02:08:41 Speaker 25: is not really—it's not totally the
02:08:42 Speaker 25: right number. We had gone from
02:08:43 Speaker 25: kind of twenty-four million to thirty
02:08:46 Speaker 25: by March for the version A,
02:08:49 Speaker 25: which was our initial kind of
02:08:51 Speaker 25: slightly modified over time with the
02:08:53 Speaker 25: task force option. So, if you
02:08:55 Speaker 25: look into the transition funding spreadsheet,
02:08:57 Speaker 25: which is kind of the bigger
02:08:59 Speaker 25: link of the three spreadsheets. There
02:09:01 Speaker 25: was a number of thirty-seven million
02:09:03 Speaker 25: dollars in there, and that thirty-seven
02:09:04 Speaker 25: million was assuming that we would
02:09:07 Speaker 25: get a seven point three two
02:09:09 Speaker 25: percent increase to our budget, which
02:09:10 Speaker 25: is that two point five five
02:09:13 Speaker 25: asset management plan and the two
02:09:14 Speaker 25: percent inflation, of which we get
02:09:16 Speaker 25: eighty percent of the two point
02:09:18 Speaker 25: five five. So that so that
02:09:20 Speaker 25: number can range anywhere from thirty-seven
02:09:21 Speaker 25: million if the if county council
02:09:23 Speaker 25: decided all the increases are zero,
02:09:26 Speaker 25: that number would be twenty-three million.
02:09:28 Speaker 25: So that was the original assumption
02:09:30 Speaker 25: in version A, that the municipalities
02:09:31 Speaker 25: would get what we get at
02:09:33 Speaker 25: the county. So that's kind of
02:09:36 Speaker 25: where that number is, right now.
02:09:39 Speaker 25: That that you know somewhere around
02:09:41 Speaker 25: thirty million, twenty-three, thirty-seven. I guess
02:09:42 Speaker 25: thirty-seven if we keep getting what
02:09:44 Speaker 25: we recommend and for our assets.
02:09:45 Speaker 25: And the other thing I just
02:09:46 Speaker 25: did want to mention about some
02:09:48 Speaker 25: of the changes. There has been
02:09:50 Speaker 25: changes all the way along in
02:09:52 Speaker 25: lane kilometers, for example. Lanes, kilometers,
02:09:54 Speaker 25: for example, you know something like
02:09:57 Speaker 25: the Eddie Sargent. It's it's four
02:09:59 Speaker 25: lanes, which is not twice as
02:10:00 Speaker 25: much as a two-lane road, but
02:10:01 Speaker 25: it's definitely more. So there's been
02:10:04 Speaker 25: kind of refinements to our modeling
02:10:06 Speaker 25: that way. Some of the tapering
02:10:07 Speaker 25: over time. At one point, the
02:10:09 Speaker 25: urban transition fund was tapered out
02:10:11 Speaker 25: to zero over five years. Now
02:10:14 Speaker 25: that continues on. So that's where
02:10:15 Speaker 25: it does get quite tricky to
02:10:16 Speaker 25: look through all the numbers. So
02:10:18 Speaker 25: what we recommended at the task
02:10:20 Speaker 25: force was version B. which includes
02:10:21 Speaker 25: a guarantee of 2.5 percent. That
02:10:23 Speaker 25: was kind of pretty much unanimous
02:10:24 Speaker 25: with the municipalities. They just don't.
02:10:26 Speaker 25: The whole, you know, you'll get
02:10:27 Speaker 25: what we get is it makes
02:10:29 Speaker 25: people a little uncomfortable. You don't
02:10:30 Speaker 25: know what funding is coming, and
02:10:32 Speaker 25: we're not much different with you
02:10:34 Speaker 25: know OSIF and gas tax. You
02:10:35 Speaker 25: don't know well, not gas CCBF,
02:10:38 Speaker 25: I guess, but you don't know
02:10:40 Speaker 25: exactly what you're getting. So the
02:10:43 Speaker 25: the municipalities really feel like in
02:10:46 Speaker 25: order to figure out how they're
02:10:47 Speaker 25: going to do some of this
02:10:50 Speaker 25: urban work, they really want. an
02:10:52 Speaker 25: increase in transition or a guaranteed
02:10:54 Speaker 25: increase. Also, there was a lot
02:10:55 Speaker 25: of discussion about traffic signals because
02:10:57 Speaker 25: they can be, you know, unique.
02:10:59 Speaker 25: A lot of municipalities don't have
02:11:02 Speaker 25: a lot of expertise with them.
02:11:03 Speaker 25: Ourselves were under our own sounds
02:11:05 Speaker 25: contract every year, so that was
02:11:06 Speaker 25: kind of something that's brought into
02:11:07 Speaker 25: version B was just something for
02:11:09 Speaker 25: traffic signals because they are new
02:11:10 Speaker 25: to a lot to a lot
02:11:12 Speaker 25: of municipalities. We talked about transferring
02:11:14 Speaker 25: the D. We talked about transferring
02:11:15 Speaker 25: the DCs there in the version
02:11:17 Speaker 25: B that was that was recommended
02:11:18 Speaker 25: at committee or at the task
02:11:19 Speaker 25: force. So of course now you'll
02:11:19 Speaker 25: see Scott's report later. No one
02:11:21 Speaker 25: knows exactly where DCs are going.
02:11:23 Speaker 25: Again, this this would be based
02:11:25 Speaker 25: on money already collected. So whether
02:11:26 Speaker 25: whether that leaves us short in
02:11:27 Speaker 25: the future, I'm not going to
02:11:28 Speaker 25: get into here. But and then
02:11:30 Speaker 25: there's a four projects that are
02:11:33 Speaker 25: new timing. You know, bridge in
02:11:36 Speaker 25: Clarksville and there's a few others
02:11:37 Speaker 25: where just Where it just happens
02:11:38 Speaker 25: that we're right at the cusp
02:11:40 Speaker 25: of the project going, and we're
02:11:42 Speaker 25: kind of across budget years, and
02:11:43 Speaker 25: so some of them that are
02:11:44 Speaker 25: due, we wouldn't just kind of
02:11:45 Speaker 25: you know leave somebody holding with
02:11:46 Speaker 25: an imminent project. So we also
02:11:48 Speaker 25: brought forward the task force a
02:11:49 Speaker 25: bunch of other options, which we'd
02:11:50 Speaker 25: call, I guess, version C. There
02:11:52 Speaker 25: you're up to like that's sort
02:11:54 Speaker 25: of the Cadillac. A lot of
02:11:56 Speaker 25: them, municipal staff, of course, liked
02:11:58 Speaker 25: this version because it's the most
02:12:03 Speaker 25: money, which totally makes sense. I'd
02:12:05 Speaker 25: probably pick the same thing. You
02:12:07 Speaker 25: know, that's a guaranteed seven percent
02:12:09 Speaker 25: increase. So that really, if you
02:12:10 Speaker 25: know, if we got what we
02:12:12 Speaker 01: what we like to recommend every
02:12:14 Speaker 01: year with the asset management plan
02:12:16 Speaker 01: and inflation, that would be fine.
02:12:19 Speaker 01: It just transfers some more risk
02:12:21 Speaker 01: to us to the county. It
02:12:23 Speaker 01: really doesn't cost you anymore if
02:12:24 Speaker 01: we get seven point three two,
02:12:28 Speaker 01: for example, the guaranteed seven be
02:12:29 Speaker 01: fine. But if all of a
02:12:31 Speaker 01: sudden the county council decided we're
02:12:33 Speaker 01: getting zero and we're committed to
02:12:35 Speaker 01: give a guaranteed seven, that that
02:12:36 Speaker 01: is where the the risk lies
02:12:37 Speaker 01: for the county. And then we
02:12:38 Speaker 01: also talked about. And we also
02:12:40 Speaker 01: talked about surface replacement at the
02:12:41 Speaker 01: task force. So that was maybe
02:12:44 Speaker 01: doing some paving, you know, roads
02:12:46 Speaker 01: that hadn't been done, you know,
02:12:49 Speaker 01: in in the last ten years.
02:12:50 Speaker 01: And there's some support for that,
02:12:53 Speaker 01: but people see, okay, so you're
02:12:54 Speaker 01: paving a road, but you might
02:12:56 Speaker 01: not be doing the underground. There
02:12:57 Speaker 01: is some upside to buying time
02:12:59 Speaker 01: there, but again, on unless you
02:13:01 Speaker 01: go road by road and figure
02:13:03 Speaker 01: out exactly what that is, there
02:13:06 Speaker 01: is some issues there. Are we
02:13:07 Speaker 01: spending the money? the best way
02:13:08 Speaker 01: possible by paving a road. We're
02:13:12 Speaker 01: not doing the underground, which in
02:13:16 Speaker 01: many cases the underground is the
02:13:17 Speaker 01: real problem. So, and then on
02:13:19 Speaker 01: page six of the report, there's
02:13:20 Speaker 01: some other items that were brought
02:13:22 Speaker 01: to the task force because you
02:13:23 Speaker 01: know we put it out there.
02:13:27 Speaker 01: What else do you think? And
02:13:29 Speaker 01: there was kind of some additional
02:13:30 Speaker 01: roads people thought about. There was
02:13:33 Speaker 01: just a whole kind of a
02:13:34 Speaker 01: laundry list of other things that
02:13:39 Speaker 01: people are thinking about, which aren't
02:13:40 Speaker 01: really in any of these three
02:13:43 Speaker 01: options. We're just putting them out
02:13:47 Speaker 01: there, just because that came out
02:13:49 Speaker 01: of the task force. So. as
02:13:51 Speaker 01: I said, this is kind
02:13:54 Speaker 01: of the summary report. It's just
02:13:55 Speaker 01: to get people thinking about the
02:13:59 Speaker 01: options, and the minutes from the
02:14:01 Speaker 01: task force will be coming June
02:14:04 Speaker 01: twenty fifth. So, I don't
02:14:08 Speaker 01: think I need to go into
02:14:14 Speaker 01: too much more detail. I'm ready
02:14:20 Speaker 01: to answer questions, but there's a
02:14:24 Speaker 01: lot of data in there, and
02:14:26 Speaker 01: if you start diving into links,
02:14:28 Speaker 01: you'll see even more. So, I'm
02:14:31 Speaker 01: sure the staff, your staff, is
02:14:35 Speaker 01: probably hard at it as they
02:14:36 Speaker 01: always are, and we're just bringing
02:14:39 Speaker 01: this forward for information this time.
02:14:41 Speaker 01: Okay, thank you very much, Drew.
02:14:43 Speaker 01: Okay, thank you very much,
02:14:46 Speaker 01: Director Hoy. And yes, you know
02:14:50 Speaker 01: it was a very fruitful day
02:14:51 Speaker 01: to have everybody there in the
02:14:53 Speaker 01: room. But as you said, we
02:14:55 Speaker 01: can't underscore enough that there's been
02:14:57 Speaker 01: lots of dialogue going between county
02:15:02 Speaker 01: staff and town staff for all
02:15:08 Speaker 01: of the the lower tiers, and
02:15:08 Speaker 01: we as as mayors and deputy
02:15:11 Speaker 01: mayors have been sitting in on
02:15:13 Speaker 01: those conversations along the way too.
02:15:16 Speaker 01: So lots of individual conversations going
02:15:18 Speaker 01: on. This was the opportunity to
02:15:20 Speaker 01: have everybody in the room together,
02:15:22 Speaker 01: which was very beneficial. It produced
02:15:25 Speaker 01: so much information that I think
02:15:25 Speaker 01: it was wise to bring this
02:15:27 Speaker 01: report forward so that we can
02:15:29 Speaker 01: actually see a digest of some
02:15:30 Speaker 01: of the conversations. It allows the
02:15:34 Speaker 01: lower tiers to look at each
02:15:42 Speaker 01: other's responses as well, and also
02:15:46 Speaker 01: allows for some time for reflection
02:15:50 Speaker 01: before we consider the minutes, which
02:15:53 Speaker 01: will be coming in the next
02:15:55 Speaker 01: cycle. So, as it stands, this
02:15:58 Speaker 01: is just to give us a
02:16:00 Speaker 01: touch point of where we are
02:16:02 Speaker 01: in the process. So, with that,
02:16:06 Speaker 01: and did you have any other
02:16:08 Speaker 01: further comments? You're nodding your head.
02:16:09 Speaker 01: No. Okay. Okay. He says exactly
02:16:11 Speaker 01: what I said. Okay. So with
02:16:13 Speaker 26: that, I'll put it out to
02:16:15 Speaker 26: members of the committee, the whole
02:16:16 Speaker 26: for any questions or comments. Not
02:16:18 Speaker 26: seen any. All right. In that
02:16:22 Speaker 26: case, then we have it moved
02:16:23 Speaker 26: and seconded. It is already on
02:16:26 Speaker 26: the floor, so I'll call the
02:16:27 Speaker 26: vote. All those in favor. And
02:16:29 Speaker 26: that motion is carried. Thank you
02:16:30 Speaker 26: very much, Director Hui. And that
02:16:33 Speaker 26: that means that you're you're off
02:16:36 Speaker 26: the just before. lunch spot. I
02:16:37 Speaker 26: get to call another one in.
02:16:40 Speaker 26: Who's the next lucky individual to
02:16:42 Speaker 26: come on down? Okay, so we
02:16:43 Speaker 26: will move on then to item
02:16:45 Speaker 26: seven C, and that is recommended
02:16:47 Speaker 26: that report PDR CW twenty twenty
02:16:49 Speaker 26: sorry twenty two twenty six be
02:16:51 Speaker 26: received, and that the county's nuisance
02:16:54 Speaker 26: beaver compensation program authorized through bylaws
02:16:56 Speaker 26: three two seven four nine one
02:16:59 Speaker 26: and four one one four o
02:17:01 Speaker 26: four. 1404, and the count and
02:17:05 Speaker 26: the county's coyote slash wolf predation
02:17:08 Speaker 26: compensation program be authorized through authorized
02:17:10 Speaker 26: through bylaws 333292 and 464510 be
02:17:14 Speaker 26: discontinued, and that bylaws 327491 and
02:17:18 Speaker 26: 333292 be repealed effective January 1st,
02:17:21 Speaker 26: 2027, and that county staff be
02:17:23 Speaker 26: directed to inform municipal Be directed
02:17:25 Speaker 26: to inform municipalities, farmers, and trappers
02:17:28 Speaker 26: of this change, including ensuring all
02:17:30 Speaker 26: claims are submitted by December 31,
02:17:32 Speaker 26: 2026, and that county staff be
02:17:34 Speaker 26: directed to focus on education for
02:17:36 Speaker 26: non-lethal methods of nuisance animal control
02:17:38 Speaker 26: in partnership, where feasible, with the
02:17:41 Speaker 26: agricultural community, First Nations, Métis
02:17:43 Speaker 26: conservation bodies, landowners, and municipalities. May
02:17:44 Speaker 26: I ask for a mover and
02:17:46 Speaker 26: a seconder? It's moved by Councilor
02:17:48 Speaker 26: Hutchison, seconded by Councilor Kevany. Mr.
02:17:51 Speaker 26: Kevany, it's now on the floor
02:17:53 Speaker 26: for discussion. So, welcome, Coordinator Johnson.
02:17:55 Speaker 26: The lectern is yours. Good morning.
02:17:57 Speaker 26: I don't know if I want
02:17:59 Speaker 26: to be in this hot seat
02:18:01 Speaker 26: right before lunch, but thank you
02:18:03 Speaker 26: very much. Thank you, Council. This
02:18:06 Speaker 26: morning, I just wanted to provide
02:18:09 Speaker 26: an update on the Beaver and
02:18:11 Speaker 26: Coyote Compensation Bylaws, including our findings
02:18:13 Speaker 26: as it relates to the consultation.
02:18:14 Speaker 26: and the research that we have
02:18:16 Speaker 26: done over the last year and
02:18:18 Speaker 26: a half since we brought this
02:18:20 Speaker 26: forward to committee. Oh, I didn't
02:18:23 Speaker 26: go right into the. Sorry, got
02:18:26 Speaker 26: excited there. It's a ribbiting. Yeah.
02:18:29 Speaker 26: Oh, there it is. Good. All
02:18:31 Speaker 26: right. And now it is not
02:18:34 Speaker 26: showing up. Okay, there it is.
02:18:36 Speaker 26: All right. So a little bit
02:18:39 Speaker 26: of background here, just to refresh
02:18:42 Speaker 26: everybody's memory. Committee may recall that
02:18:43 Speaker 26: this report originated from a request
02:18:47 Speaker 26: that was was received in October
02:18:49 Speaker 26: 2024 through correspondence. The request was
02:18:51 Speaker 26: to increase the amount of compensation
02:18:54 Speaker 26: for both of the bylaws, as
02:18:55 Speaker 26: they do not adequately reflect the
02:18:57 Speaker 26: cost of trapping and hunting today,
02:18:59 Speaker 26: and because they hadn't been updated
02:19:04 Speaker 26: in a very long time. As
02:19:05 Speaker 26: you saw in the resolution, the
02:19:06 Speaker 26: last. update to the Beaver Bylaw
02:19:09 Speaker 26: was ninety two or ninety four,
02:19:11 Speaker 26: I can't recall, and the Beaver
02:19:13 Speaker 26: Bylaw was two thousand and four.
02:19:15 Speaker 26: Or sorry, the Coyote Bylaw was
02:19:18 Speaker 26: two thousand and four. In January
02:19:20 Speaker 26: last year, a report was presented
02:19:22 Speaker 26: to committee, and direction was given
02:19:24 Speaker 26: to look into both of the
02:19:27 Speaker 26: bylaws. Staff began consultation and held
02:19:29 Speaker 26: an open house in April and
02:19:31 Speaker 26: a formal public meeting in May,
02:19:34 Speaker 26: and there was a commenting period
02:19:35 Speaker 26: after those public meetings. And as
02:19:37 Speaker 26: a result of comments and information
02:19:39 Speaker 26: received, staff did additional research regarding
02:19:41 Speaker 26: each of the programs. Update reports
02:19:44 Speaker 26: and discussions were also had with
02:19:45 Speaker 26: the county's agricultural advisory committee both
02:19:47 Speaker 26: last year and early this year.
02:19:51 Speaker 26: So, what did we hear? We
02:19:53 Speaker 26: heard many passionate and educated comments,
02:19:54 Speaker 26: both in support and in opposition
02:19:55 Speaker 26: to the bylaws. Comments received were
02:19:58 Speaker 26: in sorry comments that. were received
02:20:00 Speaker 26: were relatively equally split in support
02:20:04 Speaker 26: of the programs versus not in
02:20:06 Speaker 26: support of them. This wasn't as
02:20:07 Speaker 26: apparent to anyone that may have
02:20:09 Speaker 26: watched those minutes or those meetings
02:20:11 Speaker 26: afterwards, as there was a strong
02:20:12 Speaker 26: representation of support at both of
02:20:14 Speaker 26: those meetings. Sorry, at the public
02:20:16 Speaker 26: meeting, but those in support that
02:20:18 Speaker 26: attended those meetings and that provided
02:20:20 Speaker 26: comments saw significant importance in having
02:20:22 Speaker 26: a tool to assist in the
02:20:24 Speaker 26: management of the program. In the
02:20:26 Speaker 26: management of the problem animals, others
02:20:28 Speaker 26: spoke about the cost and efficacy
02:20:30 Speaker 26: of the non-lethal control methods, as
02:20:32 Speaker 26: well as the impact the by
02:20:35 Speaker 26: the bylaws had on farmers, livestock,
02:20:37 Speaker 26: and trappers. The need for updates
02:20:39 Speaker 26: to the bylaws was also raised
02:20:40 Speaker 26: by many. The ag advisory committee
02:20:43 Speaker 26: was generally in support of keeping
02:20:45 Speaker 26: the bylaws with some administrative updates.
02:20:46 Speaker 26: Staff note that trappers spoke to
02:20:52 Speaker 26: the need for both of the
02:20:53 Speaker 26: bylaws to be updated and to
02:20:56 Speaker 26: remain in place. while farmers were
02:20:59 Speaker 26: generally more concerned with the coyote
02:21:01 Speaker 26: bylaw and had much less comments
02:21:02 Speaker 26: on the beaver bylaw. Those that
02:21:05 Speaker 26: did not support indicated that lethal
02:21:08 Speaker 26: control methods were ineffective, inhumane, and
02:21:10 Speaker 26: unnecessary, given that there was other
02:21:12 Speaker 26: technologies and non-lethal control methods available.
02:21:14 Speaker 26: In addition, staff heard about the
02:21:16 Speaker 26: environmental impacts of removing beavers and
02:21:19 Speaker 26: coyotes, and staff heard about lethal
02:21:20 Speaker 26: control methods that they could actually
02:21:22 Speaker 26: cause. increase in population of the
02:21:26 Speaker 26: nuisance animals. Staff also did research,
02:21:28 Speaker 26: which concluded that lethal control methods
02:21:31 Speaker 26: may have a long-term negative effect
02:21:33 Speaker 26: on population control. As part of
02:21:35 Speaker 26: our research, we've also reached out
02:21:37 Speaker 26: to the Ministry of Natural Resources
02:21:38 Speaker 26: and the Ontario Ministry of Agriculture,
02:21:40 Speaker 26: Food, and Agribusiness. So, what are
02:21:42 Speaker 26: the administrative updates that we are
02:21:44 Speaker 26: looking at? If council does direct
02:21:46 Speaker 26: that the bylaws remain in place,
02:21:49 Speaker 26: there are administrative changes. that need
02:21:52 Speaker 26: to be completed. Staff are proposing
02:21:55 Speaker 26: to increase the reimbursement rates, starting
02:21:57 Speaker 26: at forty dollars per beaver and
02:21:59 Speaker 26: a hundred dollars per coyote. This
02:22:01 Speaker 26: would be indexed each year based
02:22:04 Speaker 26: on the consumer price index. Staff
02:22:05 Speaker 26: are also proposing to remove compensation
02:22:08 Speaker 26: where a claim was for municipal,
02:22:11 Speaker 26: county, provincial, or federal lands. As
02:22:13 Speaker 26: noted in my report, trappers are
02:22:14 Speaker 26: paid for their work by the
02:22:16 Speaker 26: counties and other agencies. Providing the
02:22:18 Speaker 26: bounty would be paying for the.
02:22:21 Speaker 26: same job twice using public funds.
02:22:23 Speaker 26: This change primarily would only impact
02:22:26 Speaker 26: the Beaver Bylaw, as generally the
02:22:29 Speaker 26: Coyote Bylaw does not cover public
02:22:30 Speaker 26: lands. Other changes include updating the
02:22:34 Speaker 26: bylaws so that the hunter or
02:22:36 Speaker 26: trapper doesn't have to be a
02:22:37 Speaker 26: resident of Gray County; you just
02:22:40 Speaker 26: need to have hunted or trapped
02:22:43 Speaker 26: the animal within the county boundary.
02:22:47 Speaker 26: Staff are proposing to remove forms
02:22:49 Speaker 26: as a schedule to each of
02:22:52 Speaker 26: the bylaws, allowing up allowing the
02:22:53 Speaker 26: bylaw. Allowing allowing the bylaws, or
02:22:54 Speaker 26: sorry, allowing the forms to be
02:22:59 Speaker 26: updated without the need for an
02:23:02 Speaker 26: amendment, and in addition to that,
02:23:03 Speaker 26: to improve service delivery, the intent
02:23:04 Speaker 26: is to create an online submission
02:23:06 Speaker 26: for the applications, which will ensure
02:23:08 Speaker 26: better record keeping and service delivery
02:23:10 Speaker 26: by the county. Finally, the other
02:23:12 Speaker 26: significant change that is being proposed
02:23:15 Speaker 26: is the submission of the forms,
02:23:17 Speaker 26: as mentioned above. The intent is
02:23:19 Speaker 26: to move to an online submission
02:23:20 Speaker 26: format, which will include photo verification
02:23:23 Speaker 26: and essentially remove the need for
02:23:25 Speaker 26: the lower tier to collect those
02:23:27 Speaker 26: body parts or sign off on
02:23:29 Speaker 26: them. This will not eliminate the
02:23:30 Speaker 26: need for the livestock evaluator to
02:23:33 Speaker 26: confirm the kill with a coyote
02:23:36 Speaker 26: plane. So, outlined in my report,
02:23:38 Speaker 26: you will see a number of
02:23:41 Speaker 26: options. We did struggle with making
02:23:42 Speaker 26: recommendation recommendation on the bylaws, as
02:23:44 Speaker 26: there were good points raised both
02:23:47 Speaker 26: in favor and in opposition of
02:23:49 Speaker 26: the bylaws. Staff also realized that
02:23:53 Speaker 26: the important Also realize that the
02:23:55 Speaker 26: important there is importance. Sorry, the
02:23:56 Speaker 26: importance of the agricultural and and
02:23:59 Speaker 26: healthy and having a healthy natural
02:24:00 Speaker 26: environment, and what that means to
02:24:02 Speaker 26: the county, based on consultations and
02:24:03 Speaker 26: research completed, staff are now are
02:24:05 Speaker 26: noting that there are four options
02:24:07 Speaker 26: that could be considered regarding the
02:24:09 Speaker 26: bylaws. The first option is to
02:24:12 Speaker 26: repeal the bylaws. This is our
02:24:16 Speaker 26: staff recommendation, as as we saw,
02:24:19 Speaker 26: as a and this is as
02:24:22 Speaker 26: a result of of the research.
02:24:23 Speaker 26: Result of the research indicating that
02:24:26 Speaker 26: lethal methods have actually been proven
02:24:28 Speaker 26: to have the opposite effect of
02:24:33 Speaker 26: the bylaws' intent. It causes stress
02:24:35 Speaker 26: on the population and causes increased
02:24:37 Speaker 26: litter sizes. Staff proposed that, in
02:24:39 Speaker 26: consultation with this option, that the
02:24:42 Speaker 26: county would increase educational materials on
02:24:44 Speaker 26: non-lethal method control methods. Sorry, this
02:24:50 Speaker 26: recommendation also doesn't remove any hunting
02:24:51 Speaker 26: or trapping rights. It simply removes
02:24:52 Speaker 26: a secondary compensation beyond what is
02:24:54 Speaker 26: charged by the trapper or hunter
02:24:56 Speaker 26: for their work. The second option
02:24:58 Speaker 26: is to update both of the
02:25:00 Speaker 26: bylaws with the necessary administrative updates
02:25:03 Speaker 26: and increased reimbursement fees. As part
02:25:05 Speaker 26: of this option, staff are proposing
02:25:06 Speaker 26: the necessary updates that we just
02:25:09 Speaker 26: covered in the last slide, as
02:25:10 Speaker 26: well as increasing the reimbursement rates
02:25:12 Speaker 26: with forty dollars per beaver and
02:25:15 Speaker 26: a hundred dollars per coyote, indexed
02:25:17 Speaker 26: each year based on on CPI.
02:25:18 Speaker 26: Similar to the first option, education
02:25:20 Speaker 26: on non-lethal control methods would also
02:25:22 Speaker 26: be an inclusion with this option.
02:25:25 Speaker 26: The third option is to repeal
02:25:27 Speaker 26: the beaver bylaw and update the
02:25:31 Speaker 26: coyote bylaw with the necessary administrative
02:25:32 Speaker 26: updates and increased reimbursement. Similar to
02:25:34 Speaker 26: the second option, we're also recommending
02:25:35 Speaker 26: that education piece as well. And
02:25:38 Speaker 26: then the fourth option is to
02:25:41 Speaker 26: do nothing and keep the bylaws
02:25:42 Speaker 26: status quo. And at this time,
02:25:45 Speaker 26: staff are not recommending that option.
02:25:46 Speaker 26: It's important to note that regardless
02:25:48 Speaker 26: of the decision that we make
02:25:49 Speaker 26: that is made today, it does
02:25:54 Speaker 26: not eliminate the ability for the
02:25:56 Speaker 26: landowner to protect their property
02:25:58 Speaker 26: or livestock, including the hiring or
02:26:01 Speaker 26: of hunters or trappers to
02:26:04 Speaker 26: protect their properties. If the bylaws
02:26:06 Speaker 26: are removed, it simply eliminates a
02:26:08 Speaker 26: fee paid, which would be in
02:26:10 Speaker 26: addition to whatever the hunter or
02:26:12 Speaker 26: trapper would charge for their service.
02:26:16 Speaker 26: The county, as noted, hires trappers
02:26:17 Speaker 26: from time to time to trap
02:26:21 Speaker 26: nuisance beavers impacting county land or
02:26:22 Speaker 26: infrastructure. and a fee is paid
02:26:25 Speaker 26: for their service. Other public bodies,
02:26:26 Speaker 26: such as municipalities, do the same.
02:26:28 Speaker 26: It's also worth noting that the
02:26:30 Speaker 26: removal of the bylaw would result
02:26:32 Speaker 26: in some cases the landowner having
02:26:33 Speaker 26: to pay more for hiring a
02:26:35 Speaker 26: hunter or trapper for this service.
02:26:37 Speaker 26: Many trappers do not charge or
02:26:40 Speaker 26: charge minimally based, and these prices
02:26:42 Speaker 26: could increase for a landowner. One
02:26:43 Speaker 26: thing that staff did hear through
02:26:49 Speaker 26: this process. What we've stopped did
02:26:50 Speaker 26: here through this process is that
02:26:52 Speaker 26: some landowners are reluctant to pay
02:26:53 Speaker 26: for hunting and trapping services, and
02:26:56 Speaker 26: this is based on the
02:26:59 Speaker 26: belief that they are duly compensated
02:27:01 Speaker 26: through the bounties and the sale
02:27:03 Speaker 26: of the pelts, which has been
02:27:05 Speaker 26: very clearly demonstrated throughout this process
02:27:06 Speaker 26: that the cost of pelts is
02:27:08 Speaker 26: very minimal right now. The county
02:27:11 Speaker 26: also is not legislatively required to
02:27:12 Speaker 26: maintain nuisance animal bylaws, and many
02:27:15 Speaker 26: other counties and municipalities have moved
02:27:17 Speaker 26: away from these bylaws. Should the
02:27:20 Speaker 26: committee of the whole direct staff
02:27:23 Speaker 26: to update the bylaws, then finalized
02:27:24 Speaker 26: versions will come back to county
02:27:27 Speaker 26: council with the changes highlighted in
02:27:28 Speaker 26: this report. Should council approve these
02:27:31 Speaker 26: bylaws, staff are recommending an effective
02:27:33 Speaker 26: date of January first, twenty twenty
02:27:35 Speaker 26: seven. Just to help us understand
02:27:37 Speaker 26: a little bit more of the
02:27:39 Speaker 26: financial side of things in relation
02:27:41 Speaker 26: to these bylaws. there is currently
02:27:43 Speaker 26: a budget of thirty thousand dollars
02:27:47 Speaker 01: for compensation for both of these
02:27:48 Speaker 01: bylaws: fifteen thousand for beavers and
02:27:49 Speaker 01: fifteen thousand for coyotes. In my
02:27:51 Speaker 01: report, I I had two tables
02:27:54 Speaker 01: under the financial section. The first
02:27:56 Speaker 01: sec The first table speaks to
02:27:58 Speaker 27: the annual amount that was spent
02:27:59 Speaker 27: on beavers and coyotes from 2013
02:28:01 Speaker 27: to 2025. The average being paid
02:28:04 Speaker 27: in a year for beavers was
02:28:06 Speaker 27: just around the twelve thousand dollar
02:28:09 Speaker 27: mark, and for coyotes, it was
02:28:11 Speaker 27: around eighty two hundred. Eighty-two hundred.
02:28:14 Speaker 27: Now these are averages, obviously, and
02:28:16 Speaker 27: in this case, year by year,
02:28:18 Speaker 27: they do vary significantly. The second
02:28:20 Speaker 27: table that I wanted to highlight
02:28:21 Speaker 27: shows the annual amount of beaver
02:28:23 Speaker 27: claims that are on private lands
02:28:24 Speaker 27: versus public lands. This is from
02:28:27 Speaker 27: the year 2020 to 2025, and
02:28:29 Speaker 27: it averages to be about half
02:28:31 Speaker 27: of the claims being on public
02:28:34 Speaker 27: lands. As noted earlier, staff are
02:28:35 Speaker 27: proposing to remove claims for public
02:28:38 Speaker 27: lands to eliminate public funds paying
02:28:40 Speaker 27: for a service twice. If council
02:28:41 Speaker 27: selects the first option, staff are
02:28:43 Speaker 27: recommending allocating fifteen thousand dollars for
02:28:46 Speaker 27: education within or in the twenty
02:28:48 Speaker 27: twenty-seven budget considerations. Staff may similar
02:28:49 Speaker 27: funding may be appropriate for options
02:28:50 Speaker 27: B and C. Annual education costs
02:28:53 Speaker 27: may decrease in the future years
02:28:55 Speaker 27: once initial materials and programs have
02:28:56 Speaker 27: been established. With regards to the
02:28:56 Speaker 27: second and third options or options
02:28:58 Speaker 27: B and C. staff calculated that
02:29:00 Speaker 27: the increase would have been based
02:29:02 Speaker 27: on, staff calculated what the increase
02:29:03 Speaker 27: would have been based on the
02:29:05 Speaker 27: last time compensation was changed for
02:29:08 Speaker 27: each bylaw as it relates to
02:29:10 Speaker 27: the consumer price index, and that's
02:29:11 Speaker 27: how we landed at the forty
02:29:13 Speaker 27: dollars for beavers and a hundred
02:29:15 Speaker 27: dollars for coyotes. And as noted,
02:29:16 Speaker 27: it's recommended that as going forward,
02:29:19 Speaker 27: it's in it's updated annually as
02:29:21 Speaker 27: part of the fees and services
02:29:23 Speaker 27: bylaw based on CPI. So, staff
02:29:25 Speaker 27: have not arrived at this recommendation
02:29:27 Speaker 27: in in this report without a
02:29:29 Speaker 27: lot of serious thought and research.
02:29:33 Speaker 27: We have heard firsthand from trappers,
02:29:35 Speaker 27: farmers, landowners, municipal staff, First Nation
02:29:36 Speaker 27: staff, and provincial ministry staff, and
02:29:39 Speaker 27: not only about the pros and
02:29:40 Speaker 27: cons of the bylaws, but also
02:29:43 Speaker 01: the impact on people's financial livelihoods,
02:29:47 Speaker 01: mental health, and the environment. With
02:29:49 Speaker 13: any of the options recommended in
02:29:51 Speaker 13: the report, there are going to
02:29:53 Speaker 13: be impacts, and people or groups
02:29:55 Speaker 13: potentially. disagreeing with both the staff
02:29:57 Speaker 13: recommendation and council's ultimate decision. Ultimately,
02:29:59 Speaker 13: staff are recommending the first option,
02:30:01 Speaker 13: which is which is highlighted here,
02:30:04 Speaker 13: which is to repeal both of
02:30:05 Speaker 13: the bylaws and focus on education.
02:30:06 Speaker 13: This is based on the long-term
02:30:08 Speaker 13: goal of nuisance animal abatement. Should
02:30:10 Speaker 13: council wish to support any of
02:30:14 Speaker 13: the other options, then the motion
02:30:16 Speaker 13: should be amended accordingly. And that's
02:30:18 Speaker 13: all I had today. But I
02:30:21 Speaker 13: am happy to answer any. Okay,
02:30:23 Speaker 13: thank you very much. So, with
02:30:25 Speaker 13: that, then, oh, I'm going to
02:30:27 Speaker 13: go to Director Taylor before we
02:30:30 Speaker 13: open it up to Committee. The
02:30:32 Speaker 13: whole. Sorry, thank you, Madam Morden.
02:30:35 Speaker 13: So, I just want to, you
02:30:38 Speaker 13: know, build on some of the
02:30:39 Speaker 13: points that Sarah raised because this
02:30:40 Speaker 13: was a tough one. The original
02:30:44 Speaker 13: direction from from County Council came
02:30:45 Speaker 13: because we were investigating the bylaws
02:30:47 Speaker 13: based on on the the the
02:30:49 Speaker 13: need to look at the fees,
02:30:50 Speaker 13: and and we did a robust.
02:30:52 Speaker 13: consultation and investigation here, but I
02:30:55 Speaker 13: realize that this recommendation may come
02:30:57 Speaker 13: as a shock to to some
02:31:00 Speaker 13: members of council and certainly some
02:31:04 Speaker 13: members of the community. Whether you're
02:31:06 Speaker 13: an egg cult in egg culture
02:31:08 Speaker 13: or a farmer or trapper or
02:31:10 Speaker 13: anywhere else, in that the recommendation
02:31:11 Speaker 13: is is to repeal the bylaws.
02:31:13 Speaker 13: As Sarah's noted, we have provided
02:31:15 Speaker 13: those options for council. Certainly happy
02:31:16 Speaker 13: to take any and all direction
02:31:19 Speaker 13: from from council, and and maybe
02:31:21 Speaker 13: there's there's a further option we
02:31:23 Speaker 13: haven't considered that council would like
02:31:25 Speaker 13: us to. investigate further or look
02:31:27 Speaker 13: into, but as Sarah's noted, you
02:31:29 Speaker 13: know this is a challenging one
02:31:31 Speaker 13: in the community, and and there's
02:31:33 Speaker 13: going to people be people that
02:31:36 Speaker 13: are challenged by this recommendation and
02:31:41 Speaker 13: decision. I was telling Sarah this
02:31:42 Speaker 13: morning, you know, I spent ten
02:31:44 Speaker 01: years of my life on a
02:31:46 Speaker 01: sheep farm, and certainly when you
02:31:49 Speaker 01: were that first one to come
02:31:51 Speaker 01: upon a coyote attack, it was
02:31:55 Speaker 01: traumatic. It was obviously traumatic on
02:31:57 Speaker 01: the animal, but but traumatic on
02:31:58 Speaker 01: the farmers, and and and this
02:32:00 Speaker 01: has been a tough one, and
02:32:03 Speaker 01: and we heard very very passionate.
02:32:05 Speaker 01: and good points on both sides.
02:32:06 Speaker 01: So, is one underscore that that
02:32:14 Speaker 01: Sarah's done a wonderful job in
02:32:16 Speaker 01: in going through this consultation, going
02:32:19 Speaker 01: through this exercise, but also that
02:32:21 Speaker 26: staff are happy to to take
02:32:25 Speaker 26: any direction from council. And and
02:32:26 Speaker 26: whether there's direction here today or
02:32:28 Speaker 26: or whether there's further discussion at
02:32:31 Speaker 26: another date, we're happy to to
02:32:34 Speaker 26: build on on council's vision in
02:32:36 Speaker 26: this regard. Okay, thank you. And
02:32:39 Speaker 26: the motion that is on the
02:32:41 Speaker 26: floor is based on the staff
02:32:47 Speaker 26: recommendation to repeal. So. with that,
02:32:50 Speaker 26: I'll put it out to committee,
02:32:56 Speaker 28: the whole members for discussion. We'll
02:32:57 Speaker 28: go with Councillor Mackey first. Thank
02:32:59 Speaker 28: you, Madam Warden. In shock, probably
02:33:02 Speaker 28: does describe when I read this
02:33:05 Speaker 28: report, Scott. You know, sitting through
02:33:06 Speaker 28: the public meetings, I didn't see
02:33:07 Speaker 28: how we'd end up at this
02:33:09 Speaker 28: point. And you know, we were
02:33:10 Speaker 28: asked to bring back. You know,
02:33:13 Speaker 28: I remember the gentleman being here
02:33:15 Speaker 24: looking at an increase in fees,
02:33:18 Speaker 24: and here we have a report
02:33:20 Speaker 24: saying. we get rid of the
02:33:21 Speaker 24: the bylaws altogether. So, anyways, in
02:33:22 Speaker 24: speaking with certainly the rural community
02:33:23 Speaker 24: and the farmers in my neck
02:33:25 Speaker 24: of the woods, I haven't heard
02:33:26 Speaker 24: any support for non-lethal ways of
02:33:27 Speaker 24: getting rid of coyotes or or
02:33:29 Speaker 24: beavers. So, I would like to
02:33:30 Speaker 24: amend the motion to support option
02:33:31 Speaker 24: B with the compensation that is
02:33:33 Speaker 24: equivalent to what's in Bruce County
02:33:35 Speaker 24: right now because of our geographic.
02:33:37 Speaker 24: Proximity with Bruce County. If we're
02:33:39 Speaker 24: not at the same level that
02:33:41 Speaker 24: Bruce County is, there will be
02:33:44 Speaker 24: Gray County coyotes that end up
02:33:47 Speaker 24: on the Bruce County rule, likely
02:33:49 Speaker 24: because of the proximity to the
02:33:50 Speaker 24: county line. So, being at the
02:33:52 Speaker 24: same level as Bruce County, I
02:33:56 Speaker 24: think makes sense. I think it
02:33:58 Speaker 24: makes sense that it's indexed. I
02:34:00 Speaker 24: do question in the report, you
02:34:03 Speaker 24: know, around the the verification of
02:34:04 Speaker 24: the the kill. Why that is
02:34:06 Speaker 24: necessary. Any coyote that's out there
02:34:08 Speaker 24: is looking for a meal, and
02:34:10 Speaker 24: if we can preempt, you know,
02:34:11 Speaker 24: them taking livestock, I think we
02:34:13 Speaker 24: should be doing that. Having to
02:34:15 Speaker 24: rely on a kill, you know,
02:34:16 Speaker 24: just involves a lot of other,
02:34:19 Speaker 24: you know, the livestock evaluator is
02:34:22 Speaker 24: needed for the federal, the provincial
02:34:24 Speaker 24: compensation, but for for our bounty,
02:34:26 Speaker 24: I'm not sure that it should
02:34:30 Speaker 01: be required if we are trying
02:34:32 Speaker 01: to eliminate the number of potential
02:34:32 Speaker 01: animals that are causing harm to
02:34:35 Speaker 01: us. So, those are my comments.
02:34:36 Speaker 01: Madam Warden, and I'll certainly be
02:34:38 Speaker 01: supporting Option B. Okay, so so
02:34:39 Speaker 01: an amendment to the main motion
02:34:41 Speaker 01: has been moved and seconded. Moved
02:34:42 Speaker 01: by Councillor Mackie, and who seconded
02:34:44 Speaker 01: it? Seconded by Councillor McQueen. So
02:34:45 Speaker 01: the amendment to the main motion
02:34:47 Speaker 01: would be: you said it's it's
02:34:49 Speaker 01: called Option B. Yes, Option B.
02:34:51 Speaker 01: So we'll let the clerk put
02:34:53 Speaker 01: that up on the screen while
02:34:55 Speaker 01: we continue. There was. a bit
02:34:57 Speaker 01: of a question. I think in
02:34:58 Speaker 01: Councillor Mackey's. Did you want to
02:35:00 Speaker 01: respond to anything in Councillor Mackey's
02:35:01 Speaker 01: comment? Um. There. Yeah. Sure. Thank
02:35:03 Speaker 01: you, through you, Warden. Um. There.
02:35:05 Speaker 01: You're right. At those public meetings,
02:35:08 Speaker 01: there was not a representation of
02:35:28 Speaker 01: the opposition that we did receive.
02:35:39 Speaker 29: It was more through the commenting
02:35:45 Speaker 01: period that we did hear. those
02:35:46 Speaker 01: comments that were not in support
02:36:39 Speaker 01: of it, of the programs, and
02:36:40 Speaker 01: when we did go through the
02:36:41 Speaker 01: comments that we had received, it
02:36:43 Speaker 01: was about a fifty-two forty-eight split,
02:36:48 Speaker 01: and fifty-two was in support of
02:36:53 Speaker 01: the program, and forty-eight was was
02:36:53 Speaker 01: in support of of the removal
02:36:56 Speaker 01: of that. Okay, thank you. So
02:36:57 Speaker 01: we'll go to Councilor McQueen next.
02:37:00 Speaker 01: So we'll go to Councillor McQueen
02:37:02 Speaker 01: next. So just some clarity, Councillor
02:37:05 Speaker 01: Mackey did indicate the same as
02:37:06 Speaker 01: the County of Bruce, which is
02:37:08 Speaker 27: not what's worth a minute of
02:37:11 Speaker 27: forty and a hundred. It's fifty
02:37:13 Speaker 27: and a hundred. So I think
02:37:15 Speaker 27: that needs to be clarified. And
02:37:17 Speaker 27: and I agree exactly with Councillor
02:37:20 Speaker 27: Mackey in the sense that when
02:37:20 Speaker 27: they go out and hunt those
02:37:22 Speaker 27: coyotes, they don't stay on the
02:37:24 Speaker 27: farm maybe where they kill us,
02:37:27 Speaker 27: but they could be two farms
02:37:28 Speaker 27: beside it. But they still were
02:37:31 Speaker 27: the guilty ones. So I think
02:37:33 Speaker 27: that part needs to be. changed,
02:37:35 Speaker 27: and I think that's maybe what
02:37:37 Speaker 27: you were asking for, sort of
02:37:40 Speaker 27: clarity there for the mover. So
02:37:41 Speaker 27: I would say that should be
02:37:44 Speaker 27: changed; that it shouldn't have to
02:37:47 Speaker 27: be reluctant or determining on that
02:37:49 Speaker 27: particular spot where it was killed.
02:37:51 Speaker 27: I tell you, there. I think
02:37:53 Speaker 27: a particular person that spoke at
02:37:56 Speaker 27: that public meeting was Howard Gregg,
02:37:58 Speaker 27: and he made an important part.
02:37:59 Speaker 27: Now he's a sheep farmer; used
02:38:01 Speaker 27: to be a cattle farmer. The
02:38:04 Speaker 27: point important point he made is
02:38:06 Speaker 27: the provincial compensation. only covers you
02:38:07 Speaker 27: if you find the carcass. There's
02:38:11 Speaker 27: a lot of carcasses go missing
02:38:13 Speaker 01: that you never find, and and
02:38:14 Speaker 01: I guess in the sense of
02:38:16 Speaker 01: the, if you could educate a
02:38:20 Speaker 01: coyote not to eat a sheep
02:38:23 Speaker 01: or or or cattle beast, I
02:38:24 Speaker 13: think that would be great. But
02:38:26 Speaker 13: I'm not sure how that works,
02:38:30 Speaker 13: on the education part, because and
02:38:32 Speaker 13: it is an emotional thing, and
02:38:35 Speaker 13: it is you know, tough. You
02:38:38 Speaker 13: know, agriculture is the number one
02:38:41 Speaker 13: industry in Gray County, which. we
02:38:43 Speaker 13: should be supporting. I'll leave it
02:38:45 Speaker 13: at that. Okay, thank you. Before
02:38:47 Speaker 13: we go further into discussion, I
02:38:48 Speaker 13: just want to make sure that
02:38:49 Speaker 13: what we have as the motion
02:38:51 Speaker 13: is is reflecting what it is
02:38:53 Speaker 13: that you're moving. It is option
02:38:57 Speaker 13: B, but the clerk was noting
02:38:58 Speaker 13: some of the other paragraphs didn't
02:38:59 Speaker 13: make sense. If that's the case,
02:39:01 Speaker 24: if if we go for option
02:39:03 Speaker 24: B, so she's just trying to
02:39:04 Speaker 24: clean up the wording for you,
02:39:05 Speaker 24: and also there was reference to
02:39:08 Speaker 24: Bruce County as well, using the
02:39:10 Speaker 24: compensation rates of Bruce County, which
02:39:11 Speaker 24: wasn't necessarily spelled out in the
02:39:13 Speaker 01: report. So, if that's your intention
02:39:14 Speaker 01: as the mover and seconder, we
02:39:18 Speaker 01: should make sure the wording is
02:39:23 Speaker 01: the way you you believe it
02:39:25 Speaker 01: should go before I have any
02:39:26 Speaker 01: further discussion on the floor. So,
02:39:28 Speaker 01: just give Councillor Mac each chance
02:39:31 Speaker 01: to read. And oh, it's not
02:39:34 Speaker 01: on the screen yet. Okay. Okay.
02:39:37 Speaker 01: The top of page three does
02:39:38 Speaker 01: refer to. We'll just give the
02:39:39 Speaker 01: clerks a moment to feel to
02:39:41 Speaker 01: do this. task. Okay. See, look
02:39:43 Speaker 01: at that. Director Taylor's come up
02:39:46 Speaker 01: to the lectern now because he
02:39:48 Speaker 01: realizes it's just before lunch. I'll
02:39:50 Speaker 01: I'll let me let me hear
02:39:52 Speaker 01: from staff. Then I'm going to
02:39:55 Speaker 01: go back to the mover and
02:39:59 Speaker 01: seconder to confirm if this is
02:40:02 Speaker 01: the way that you're moving things.
02:40:04 Speaker 01: So go ahead. Thank you, Madam
02:40:08 Speaker 01: Warden. This feels familiar. I I
02:40:11 Speaker 01: did just want to flag and
02:40:13 Speaker 01: and and thank you for the
02:40:15 Speaker 01: discussion to to to date and
02:40:20 Speaker 01: for your comments, Councillor McQueen and
02:40:29 Speaker 01: Councillor Mackey. The numbers in the
02:40:31 Speaker 01: report in terms of the the
02:40:34 Speaker 01: historical. claims and everything else for
02:40:35 Speaker 01: the coyotes were based on having
02:40:37 Speaker 01: a livestock attack, and so I
02:40:38 Speaker 01: wanted to flag for council's benefit
02:40:39 Speaker 01: that should we go to a
02:40:41 Speaker 01: system where a livestock attack and
02:40:44 Speaker 01: the livestock evaluator is no longer
02:40:46 Speaker 06: needed for the coyotes, we could
02:40:47 Speaker 06: see a dramatic spike in coyote
02:40:49 Speaker 06: claims, which would be a budgetary
02:40:52 Speaker 06: impact. Again, certainly happy to take
02:40:53 Speaker 06: direction from staff or from council.
02:41:01 Speaker 06: Sorry, oops. But that was one
02:41:03 Speaker 06: of the things we we debated
02:41:04 Speaker 06: about heavily. among staff was was
02:41:07 Speaker 06: that that notion of as as
02:41:09 Speaker 06: Council McQueen pointed out that former
02:41:17 Speaker 06: warden Greg had noted that you
02:41:19 Speaker 06: know if if you don't have
02:41:20 Speaker 06: a carcass then then you can't
02:41:23 Speaker 13: make that claim but if we
02:41:26 Speaker 13: don't require the livestock evaluator then
02:41:28 Speaker 13: it becomes if you like sort
02:41:31 Speaker 13: of an open season on all
02:41:32 Speaker 13: coyotes and and you know we
02:41:34 Speaker 13: don't really know what the impact
02:41:35 Speaker 01: would be from a dietary perspective
02:41:37 Speaker 01: in that regard. Okay, thank. you.
02:41:40 Speaker 01: So now I'll return to the
02:41:42 Speaker 01: mover and ask if what you
02:41:45 Speaker 01: see on the screen is what
02:41:47 Speaker 01: you intend. Thank you, Warden. I
02:41:48 Speaker 01: think some of the fine details
02:41:49 Speaker 01: can get worked out when the
02:41:53 Speaker 01: report comes back to us. But
02:41:56 Speaker 01: continuing on with the the bounty
02:41:59 Speaker 01: for both beavers and for coyotes
02:42:01 Speaker 05: is what I am supporting, as
02:42:04 Speaker 05: well as compensation rates that are
02:42:07 Speaker 05: equal to Bruce. County's indexed over
02:42:10 Speaker 05: time, so I think this is
02:42:13 Speaker 05: reflective of what we're trying to
02:42:18 Speaker 05: get to. Some of the other
02:42:21 Speaker 05: discussions that we had about whether
02:42:24 Speaker 05: it needs to be a verified
02:42:26 Speaker 05: kill, I think those can take
02:42:29 Speaker 05: place when the bylaw comes back.
02:42:32 Speaker 05: Thank you. Okay, thank you, and
02:42:36 Speaker 05: I'll just confirm with the seconder:
02:42:39 Speaker 05: is that the way you intend
02:42:40 Speaker 05: to second? I do, but I
02:42:41 Speaker 05: do have some comments about the
02:42:45 Speaker 05: verified kill, but I can wait
02:42:50 Speaker 05: till our comments come on for
02:42:53 Speaker 05: the motions here. Okay, thank you.
02:42:55 Speaker 05: So it is moved and seconded.
02:42:59 Speaker 05: This is an amendment to the
02:43:01 Speaker 05: main motion. I better read it
02:43:05 Speaker 05: out for the benefit of the
02:43:06 Speaker 05: record. That's the PDRCW 20 to
02:43:09 Speaker 05: 26 be received, and that's. Oh,
02:43:10 Speaker 05: sorry. Oh, wait. Sorry, she's got
02:43:15 Speaker 05: a different one here for me.
02:43:17 Speaker 05: Okay. Well, you highlighted that one,
02:43:19 Speaker 05: so I'm good at following your
02:43:21 Speaker 05: directions. Okay. So what we are
02:43:25 Speaker 05: looking at right now that is
02:43:27 Speaker 05: the amendment. to the main motion,
02:43:29 Speaker 05: and it reads: What we are
02:43:33 Speaker 05: considering voting on is that the
02:43:37 Speaker 05: motion be amended to strike out
02:43:40 Speaker 05: the second and third clauses and
02:43:44 Speaker 05: and insert the following two in
02:43:47 Speaker 05: their place. Number one: Let staff
02:43:51 Speaker 05: be directed to prepare an updated
02:43:53 Speaker 05: nuisance beaver compensation bylaw as well
02:43:56 Speaker 05: as an updated coyote slash wolf
02:43:58 Speaker 05: predation bylaw based on the considerations
02:44:00 Speaker 05: outlined in this report for county
02:44:03 Speaker 05: council's consideration. and that the county's
02:44:06 Speaker 05: fees and services bylaw fifty fifty
02:44:11 Speaker 05: ninety twenty be updated to reflect
02:44:13 Speaker 01: the compensation rates of Bruce County
02:44:14 Speaker 01: for coyote or wolf. Okay. Oh
02:44:17 Speaker 01: yes, as the mover, Councillor Mackie.
02:44:20 Speaker 01: Sorry, that last line reads beaver,
02:44:21 Speaker 01: coyote, or wolf. Okay. So. it's
02:44:23 Speaker 02: on the floor for discussion. We're
02:44:25 Speaker 02: going to go to Councillor Body,
02:44:27 Speaker 02: and I will make sure that
02:44:28 Speaker 02: I all return to Councillor McQueen
02:44:29 Speaker 02: that had a further comment as
02:44:31 Speaker 02: well. Councillor Body, perhaps a lawyer
02:44:34 Speaker 02: had on over polishing the stone,
02:44:39 Speaker 02: but I wonder if we want
02:44:42 Speaker 02: to put in the current compensation
02:44:44 Speaker 02: rates, just so we don't give
02:44:46 Speaker 02: the impression that we're going to
02:44:49 Speaker 02: track Bruce County forever. Okay, I
02:44:51 Speaker 02: think that's all we really have.
02:44:53 Speaker 02: to go. Yeah, I see your
02:44:54 Speaker 02: point. So that that doesn't disturb
02:44:58 Speaker 02: the mover or the seconder to
02:45:00 Speaker 02: put current the word current. Thank
02:45:03 Speaker 02: you, Ward. No, I don't mind
02:45:08 Speaker 02: current being added to that as
02:45:10 Speaker 02: long and maybe adding. I think
02:45:13 Speaker 02: the report talks about index to
02:45:16 Speaker 02: inflation, so maybe adding the index
02:45:19 Speaker 02: to inflation part in there also,
02:45:23 Speaker 02: please. Okay, I did hear you
02:45:24 Speaker 02: refer to that verbally, so I
02:45:26 Speaker 02: will take that as part of
02:45:28 Speaker 02: your motion, and I don't see
02:45:30 Speaker 02: any objection by the seconder. Okay,
02:45:32 Speaker 02: so Councillor Roddy, there's the response
02:45:33 Speaker 02: that we're putting in place there.
02:45:37 Speaker 02: Councillor, we'll go to Councillor McQueen
02:45:40 Speaker 02: who had a further comment, and
02:45:43 Speaker 02: then I'm going to go to
02:45:46 Speaker 02: Councillor Dobreen after that. Okay, he's
02:45:53 Speaker 02: deferring to Councillor Dobreen first. Thank
02:45:55 Speaker 02: you, and through you, when in
02:46:00 Speaker 02: the first. clause of the amendment,
02:46:02 Speaker 02: it indicates, as outlined in the
02:46:06 Speaker 02: report, there was information in the
02:46:08 Speaker 02: report that the county shouldn't be
02:46:10 Speaker 02: paying twice on public lands, coyotes
02:46:11 Speaker 02: and beavers trapped or or dispatched
02:46:13 Speaker 02: on public lands. I'm expecting that
02:46:16 Speaker 02: we will have that come back
02:46:17 Speaker 02: in the proposed bylaws that we
02:46:20 Speaker 02: can have further discussion. I am
02:46:21 Speaker 02: in support of. the compensation increase
02:46:24 Speaker 02: on private lands. I have a
02:46:27 Speaker 02: question, and I likely through you,
02:46:28 Speaker 02: Warden, that this will come back
02:46:30 Speaker 02: in the proposed bylaw because it
02:46:32 Speaker 02: does say, as outlined in this
02:46:37 Speaker 02: report, that the electronic submission of
02:46:39 Speaker 02: evidence of beaver or coyote. How
02:46:41 Speaker 02: I would hope that there is
02:46:43 Speaker 02: some means of verification that. the
02:46:44 Speaker 02: use of photographs are not being
02:46:47 Speaker 02: duplicated in order to receive additional
02:46:48 Speaker 02: compensation. We don't want this to,
02:46:50 Speaker 02: you know, blow up and become
02:46:52 Speaker 02: an expense. And this is all
02:46:54 Speaker 02: going to be effective in 2027.
02:46:55 Speaker 02: So, as long as that is
02:46:59 Speaker 26: the considerations outlined in this report,
02:47:02 Speaker 26: that all of those will come
02:47:03 Speaker 26: back for further discussion. I I
02:47:06 Speaker 26: can attest while. A test. While
02:47:07 Speaker 26: it wasn't a sheep or a
02:47:09 Speaker 26: calf, we recently had a very
02:47:12 Speaker 26: large coyote on our property, and
02:47:15 Speaker 26: evidence of a this spring's fawn
02:47:16 Speaker 26: taken. So it is, yeah, it
02:47:18 Speaker 26: it it is emotional because you,
02:47:20 Speaker 26: and and I can imagine that
02:47:21 Speaker 26: farmers who get attached to calves
02:47:24 Speaker 26: and livestock and sheep. So I'm
02:47:26 Speaker 26: in support of making sure that.
02:47:28 Speaker 26: we have something in place for
02:47:29 Speaker 26: private lands and farmers, and that
02:47:32 Speaker 26: it's very clear that none of
02:47:34 Speaker 26: this precludes them from pursuing other
02:47:37 Speaker 26: technologies that will protect their livestock
02:47:38 Speaker 26: as well. Okay, thank you. I
02:47:40 Speaker 26: don't see any further hands up.
02:47:42 Speaker 26: Oh, we'll go to Councillor Greg,
02:47:45 Speaker 26: and then I'll go back over
02:47:48 Speaker 26: to the seconder. Thank you for
02:47:50 Speaker 26: the opportunity. I just like to
02:47:52 Speaker 26: note my full. Just like to
02:47:53 Speaker 26: note my fulsome support for the
02:47:57 Speaker 26: the motion that's presented on the
02:47:58 Speaker 26: screen at this point. It's been
02:48:00 Speaker 26: said to me: there's farmers in
02:48:01 Speaker 26: the peninsula. If you're not aware
02:48:04 Speaker 26: of the issue, have calves killed
02:48:05 Speaker 26: by coyotes before the cow even
02:48:12 Speaker 26: reaches its feet again. You can
02:48:13 Speaker 26: only kill the same coyote once.
02:48:18 Speaker 24: So that I live close to
02:48:19 Speaker 24: downtown Owen Sound, and my night
02:48:21 Speaker 24: camera that catches the coyotes cruising
02:48:24 Speaker 24: through my yard. I think this
02:48:26 Speaker 24: is a good direction at this
02:48:28 Speaker 24: time to move forward with. I
02:48:29 Speaker 24: don't support doing a lot of
02:48:31 Speaker 24: outreach and education to the agricultural
02:48:33 Speaker 24: society. They are very informed through
02:48:34 Speaker 24: a multitude of various mediums: the
02:48:37 Speaker 24: Rural Voice, Ontario Farmer. There's a
02:48:38 Speaker 24: plethora of different information sources that
02:48:40 Speaker 24: advise farmers on on avenues and
02:48:42 Speaker 24: opportunities for for handling Communities for
02:48:43 Speaker 24: for handling the issue, so totally
02:48:47 Speaker 24: in agreement. I in reading the
02:48:49 Speaker 24: report and thanks, Sarah. There was
02:48:51 Speaker 24: one note. Just wanted to thank
02:48:53 Speaker 24: staff. I reached out about the
02:48:55 Speaker 24: public comments. It was indicated in
02:48:59 Speaker 24: the response back to me that
02:49:01 Speaker 24: there was 58% of the public
02:49:05 Speaker 24: comments in support of continuing the
02:49:07 Speaker 24: bylaws with potential refinements, and 42%
02:49:09 Speaker 24: wanting the bylaws to be repealed.
02:49:11 Speaker 24: Just a little point of. clarification:
02:49:14 Speaker 24: There, I have I have the
02:49:16 Speaker 24: same concern as Counselor Devereen in
02:49:19 Speaker 24: terms of potentially being able to
02:49:22 Speaker 24: manipulate the the photo. Why can't
02:49:24 Speaker 24: the municipal offices just take the
02:49:28 Speaker 24: ear? I don't understand that. Just
02:49:31 Speaker 24: take the ear and dispose of
02:49:34 Speaker 24: it at my business. I have
02:49:37 Speaker 24: to clean dog excrement off my
02:49:39 Speaker 24: sidewalks on a routine. basis. When
02:49:42 Speaker 24: I read the report, this just
02:49:44 Speaker 24: sounded like we don't want to
02:49:46 Speaker 24: do it. It's not going to
02:49:49 Speaker 24: bite anyone at that point. Can
02:49:52 Speaker 24: you just inform me? You know,
02:49:54 Speaker 24: we're increasing the rates because costs
02:49:56 Speaker 24: of the trappers and hunters has
02:49:58 Speaker 24: increased over time. So we're responding
02:50:01 Speaker 24: to the fact that they have
02:50:03 Speaker 24: to travel with the ear for
02:50:04 Speaker 24: verification. So I, I get it.
02:50:08 Speaker 24: We're let's use technology, but I'm
02:50:10 Speaker 24: worried about technology. being able to
02:50:15 Speaker 24: be manipulated. You know, everybody hopefully
02:50:16 Speaker 24: would have good intentions, but why
02:50:21 Speaker 24: leave the door open? Why leave
02:50:23 Speaker 24: the door open and just
02:50:26 Speaker 24: not have them take it
02:50:29 Speaker 24: to a municipal office and then
02:50:32 Speaker 24: be disposed of? Through you, Warden.
02:50:33 Speaker 24: Part of it was that we
02:50:35 Speaker 24: had heard from the municipal municipalities
02:50:38 Speaker 24: that they they didn't want that
02:50:41 Speaker 24: extra step in there, but
02:50:44 Speaker 24: the other the other piece of
02:50:45 Speaker 24: it, and we did discuss about
02:50:49 Speaker 24: the the potential. of it being
02:50:50 Speaker 24: misused, but through this process, we
02:50:55 Speaker 24: actually learned that some municipal offices
02:50:56 Speaker 24: don't even actually keep them when
02:50:58 Speaker 24: they're presented with them. So there
02:51:00 Speaker 24: is still the possibility of misuse
02:51:02 Speaker 24: in that case as well. With
02:51:05 Speaker 24: the the formal presentation of the
02:51:07 Speaker 24: part, the body parts, the other
02:51:09 Speaker 24: the other part that we heard
02:51:10 Speaker 24: was the actual fact that we
02:51:11 Speaker 24: had to use body parts as
02:51:13 Speaker 24: a verification of a kill, and
02:51:14 Speaker 24: so we were trying to find
02:51:15 Speaker 24: a medium ground that would work.
02:51:16 Speaker 24: Certainly, if it's the direction of
02:51:21 Speaker 24: council, we can reevaluate the permitting
02:51:24 Speaker 01: system in some capacity. It was
02:51:25 Speaker 01: more we were trying to streamline
02:51:28 Speaker 01: things so that we had better
02:51:28 Speaker 01: record keeping, that we had a
02:51:32 Speaker 01: more efficient way for people to
02:51:35 Speaker 01: present that they didn't even have
02:51:37 Speaker 01: to come to the municipal offices
02:51:38 Speaker 01: and they could just submit everything
02:51:51 Speaker 01: online. So that was the rationale
02:51:56 Speaker 05: that staff had approached with that.
02:52:01 Speaker 05: Okay. Seen no other hands. I'm
02:52:03 Speaker 05: going to return to Councilor McQueen.
02:52:08 Speaker 05: Thank you, Madam Warden. And I
02:52:12 Speaker 05: do have. I think we all
02:52:16 Speaker 05: received the letter from the Gray
02:52:17 Speaker 05: County Beef Farmers that sent it
02:52:22 Speaker 05: out a few weeks back. Just
02:52:27 Speaker 05: of note of that, they just
02:52:29 Speaker 05: had their annual beef dinner. I
02:52:31 Speaker 05: think it was just under 500
02:52:33 Speaker 05: people attended that in Rockland. Just
02:52:35 Speaker 05: as a note of of, and
02:52:36 Speaker 01: it's been growing. I do have
02:52:37 Speaker 01: a a. I do have a
02:52:39 Speaker 01: letter here from the beef farmers
02:52:42 Speaker 01: of Ontario, and there's a couple
02:52:44 Speaker 01: paragraphs I do want to read
02:52:46 Speaker 01: the public record. Coyotes and
02:52:49 Speaker 01: wolves remain a persistent and growing
02:52:51 Speaker 01: threat to the local beef farmers,
02:52:52 Speaker 01: who face not only the economic
02:52:54 Speaker 01: impact, but the operational stress through
02:52:59 Speaker 01: the ongoing livestock losses. Beyond the
02:53:01 Speaker 26: impact on producers, the financial burden
02:53:03 Speaker 26: is increasingly shifted to the Ontario
02:53:06 Speaker 26: government through the Ontario Wildlife Damage
02:53:08 Speaker 26: Compensation. program, which does compensate, but
02:53:13 Speaker 26: is there is only one taxpayer
02:53:14 Speaker 24: which continue taxpayer which continues to
02:53:17 Speaker 24: pay substantial amounts each year to
02:53:18 Speaker 24: cover verified losses. According to the
02:53:20 Speaker 24: recent data from the OWDCP, Grey
02:53:21 Speaker 24: County continues to rank among the
02:53:23 Speaker 24: highest in Ontario for instances of
02:53:25 Speaker 24: livestock predation from coyotes. In 2022
02:53:25 Speaker 24: to 2023, 26 head of cattle
02:53:28 Speaker 24: were lost to coyote. predation, resulting
02:53:30 Speaker 24: in two twenty five thousand three
02:53:32 Speaker 24: hundred fifty thousand dollars loss compensation
02:53:33 Speaker 24: claims in twenty twenty three twenty
02:53:34 Speaker 24: four, this number increased to thirty
02:53:36 Speaker 24: three cattle with losses totaling forty
02:53:37 Speaker 24: five thousand. Notably, in twenty twenty
02:53:38 Speaker 24: three twenty twenty four, Gray County
02:53:40 Speaker 24: reported the highest overall loss of
02:53:41 Speaker 24: livestock due to coyote attacks of
02:53:43 Speaker 24: any county in the province. Two
02:53:45 Speaker 24: hundred fifteen animals were killed with
02:53:45 Speaker 24: a total value of ninety six
02:53:47 Speaker 24: thousand four. Ninety-six thousand four hundred
02:53:50 Speaker 24: thirty-six dollars. These figures reinforce the
02:53:52 Speaker 24: reality that predation remains a significant
02:53:54 Speaker 24: and ongoing threat. Hunter financial compensation
02:53:56 Speaker 24: is an important tool in mitigating
02:53:57 Speaker 24: the impact of predator populations, helping
02:54:00 Speaker 24: to reduce losses and maintain the
02:54:01 Speaker 24: balance between wildlife conservation and agricultural
02:54:04 Speaker 24: sustainability. Given the ongoing severity of
02:54:05 Speaker 24: issues in Gray County, we believe.
02:54:06 Speaker 24: it is a clear and compelling
02:54:09 Speaker 24: case not only to maintain the
02:54:10 Speaker 24: program that it's currently currently exists,
02:54:11 Speaker 24: but also to consider enhancements such
02:54:13 Speaker 24: as increasing compensating rates for hunters
02:54:14 Speaker 24: and trappers who participate in predator
02:54:17 Speaker 24: effort control efforts. And this goes
02:54:19 Speaker 24: on to a few other paragraphs
02:54:21 Speaker 24: I will not repeat, but is
02:54:23 Speaker 24: signed by Craig McLaughlin, president of
02:54:24 Speaker 24: the Gray County Bee Farmers Association,
02:54:28 Speaker 24: or sorry, of the Ontario Bee
02:54:31 Speaker 01: The Ontario Beef Farmers Association. It
02:54:33 Speaker 01: was CC to the Grey County
02:54:35 Speaker 01: Beef Farmers. I do have. There's
02:54:38 Speaker 01: a lot of inputs and the
02:54:41 Speaker 01: other letter that we received that
02:54:42 Speaker 01: reinforces. I think what we're talking
02:54:43 Speaker 01: about today. But being that it's
02:54:46 Speaker 01: close to lunch, I'll leave it
02:54:50 Speaker 01: at that. But I think there's
02:54:52 Speaker 01: a lot. There's a lot of
02:54:54 Speaker 01: support to where we're going today.
02:54:58 Speaker 01: Okay. Thank you. Any other comments?
02:55:00 Speaker 01: Okay. So we are voting on
02:55:03 Speaker 01: the amendment to the main motion.
02:55:06 Speaker 01: The amendment to the main motion.
02:55:08 Speaker 01: All those in favor. and that
02:55:11 Speaker 01: is approved. Okay. So with that,
02:55:14 Speaker 01: then we are going to look
02:55:16 Speaker 01: at the main motion now, as
02:55:19 Speaker 01: it's been amended. Sorry, Councillor Dobrin.
02:55:21 Speaker 01: I did meant mean to mention
02:55:24 Speaker 01: that. the final clause be directed
02:55:27 Speaker 01: to focus on education for non-methyl
02:55:30 Speaker 01: methods of nuisance. By incorporating the
02:55:34 Speaker 01: the amendment, we are no longer
02:55:38 Speaker 01: focusing solely on education, but I
02:55:42 Speaker 13: don't think it precludes us
02:55:44 Speaker 13: from encouraging education. So I'm wondering
02:55:48 Speaker 13: if that clause still applies. Oh.
02:55:51 Speaker 13: Okay. Since this was presented not
02:55:53 Speaker 01: just purely as option B, but
02:55:55 Speaker 01: a modified version of it, the
02:56:00 Speaker 01: clerk and I had discussed whether
02:56:02 Speaker 01: or not that was supposed to
02:56:04 Speaker 01: be in there. I'll just look
02:56:07 Speaker 01: to staff to say, what can
02:56:09 Speaker 01: we do about if if this
02:56:10 Speaker 01: motion passes the way it is
02:56:15 Speaker 01: worded, does it prevent you from
02:56:18 Speaker 01: offering that education, whether the agricultural
02:56:22 Speaker 01: community needs it or not, because
02:56:24 Speaker 01: they're already very aware of the
02:56:26 Speaker 01: practices? What kind of dialogue can
02:56:28 Speaker 01: be continued? On that note, I
02:56:33 Speaker 01: I think we can continue on
02:56:34 Speaker 01: with with our intent to work
02:56:37 Speaker 01: with our partners in any way
02:56:39 Speaker 01: possible and and continue on in
02:56:41 Speaker 01: education that way. That was that's
02:56:42 Speaker 01: the intent, I think. Okay, thank
02:56:44 Speaker 01: you, and we'll go to Councillor
02:56:45 Speaker 01: McQueen. I thank you, Madam Warden,
02:56:47 Speaker 01: County Council. I think it is
02:56:49 Speaker 01: important to what some of those
02:56:50 Speaker 01: education things are. Like I think
02:56:53 Speaker 01: back, maybe good fences, but electric
02:56:54 Speaker 01: fences are. You gotta have a
02:56:56 Speaker 01: fence. You can go with the
02:56:57 Speaker 01: chain link fence, but I don't
02:57:21 Speaker 29: know if all bee farmers in
02:57:22 Speaker 01: Gray County could afford a chain
02:57:24 Speaker 01: link fence around the outside of
02:57:26 Speaker 01: their farm. And there's other things
02:57:28 Speaker 01: about the sheep. Sheep farmers they
02:57:30 Speaker 01: put them in at night if
02:57:31 Speaker 01: it's possible and stuff like that.
02:57:33 Speaker 01: But I think that it would
02:57:35 Speaker 01: be good to know what the
02:57:38 Speaker 01: educational things are if they make
02:57:39 Speaker 01: sense. The other thing is, I
02:57:43 Speaker 01: think it should be noted to
02:57:45 Speaker 01: the main to this main motion
02:57:47 Speaker 01: is there are just recently reports,
02:57:49 Speaker 01: and it's interesting with. Councillor Gregas
02:57:51 Speaker 01: said in own sound that there's
02:57:54 Speaker 01: you've heard the news way down
02:57:57 Speaker 01: into the urban part of Toronto.
02:57:59 Speaker 01: Kids are getting bit. Just even
02:58:01 Speaker 01: this morning, a kid got scratched
02:58:03 Speaker 01: by a coyote. So we talk
02:58:07 Speaker 01: about this was back to the
02:58:09 Speaker 01: part of only if there's a
02:58:12 Speaker 01: verified kill, we don't you know
02:58:14 Speaker 01: have you know free game on
02:58:17 Speaker 01: coyotes. But maybe there's the point
02:58:19 Speaker 01: where the coyote population does need
02:58:22 Speaker 01: to be looked at, not just
02:58:24 Speaker 01: from that verified kill, because if
02:58:26 Speaker 01: they're if they're starting to bite
02:58:28 Speaker 01: young children. I think we
02:58:30 Speaker 01: got a bigger problem here. Just
02:58:33 Speaker 01: saying. Anyway, I'll leave it at
02:58:34 Speaker 01: that. Okay. Thank you. And the
02:58:38 Speaker 01: education, of course, could be there.
02:58:39 Speaker 01: Could be recommendations both for urban
02:58:41 Speaker 01: as well as rural and agricultural.
02:58:45 Speaker 01: Correct? Yes. Okay. All right. Any
02:58:47 Speaker 01: other further discussion? Okay. So we
02:58:48 Speaker 27: are now going to vote on
02:58:50 Speaker 27: this main motion, the way that
02:58:50 Speaker 27: it has been amended. That the
02:58:53 Speaker 27: report PDRCW twenty two. R.C.W. 22.26
02:58:54 Speaker 27: be received, and that staff be,
02:58:56 Speaker 27: yeah, staff be directed to prepare
02:58:59 Speaker 27: an updated nuisance beaver compensation bylaw,
02:59:00 Speaker 27: as well as an updated coyote
02:59:01 Speaker 27: wolf predation bylaw, based on the
02:59:03 Speaker 27: considerations outlined in this report for
02:59:05 Speaker 27: county council's consideration, and that the
02:59:06 Speaker 27: county's fees and services bylaw 50.90.20
02:59:07 Speaker 27: be updated to reflect reflect the
02:59:09 Speaker 27: compensation rates of Bruce County for
02:59:10 Speaker 27: beaver, coyote, or wolf indexed for
02:59:11 Speaker 27: inflation, and that county staff be
02:59:13 Speaker 27: directed to focus on education for
02:59:14 Speaker 27: non-lethal methods of nuisance animal control
02:59:17 Speaker 27: in partnership, where feasible, with the
02:59:18 Speaker 27: agricultural community, First Nations, Métis conservation
02:59:19 Speaker 27: bodies, landowners, and and municipalities. Okay.
02:59:21 Speaker 27: All. Oh, yes. Sorry, Councillor Mackie.
02:59:24 Speaker 27: Thank you, Warden. As Councillor Body
02:59:31 Speaker 27: had mentioned, current compensation rates. of
02:59:32 Speaker 27: Bruce County. I think just left
02:59:36 Speaker 27: the current there. Okay. Yep. That
02:59:39 Speaker 27: we can allow that. That just
02:59:40 Speaker 27: adds clarification to the motion. Okay.
02:59:43 Speaker 27: There. So it has been updated.
02:59:45 Speaker 27: Say current compensation rates of Bruce
02:59:46 Speaker 27: County, but also indexed for inflation.
02:59:47 Speaker 27: Okay. So with that, I'll call
02:59:49 Speaker 27: the vote on this main motion.
02:59:51 Speaker 27: All those in favor? Opposed? Okay.
02:59:53 Speaker 27: that motion is carried. All right,
02:59:55 Speaker 27: thank you very much, Coordinator Johnson
02:59:56 Speaker 27: and Director Taylor for that. We
02:59:59 Speaker 27: will now break for lunch, and
03:00:02 Speaker 27: if we could, if we could
03:00:03 Speaker 27: be back at quarter two, twenty-two.
03:00:04 Speaker 27: Yeah. So how about why don't
03:00:05 Speaker 27: we do it until? Let's take
03:00:07 Speaker 27: a half hour until twenty-five two.
03:00:09 Speaker 27: So if everybody, it is a
03:00:11 Speaker 27: cold lunch, so feel free to
03:00:12 Speaker 27: bring it back in. Just. concerned
03:00:13 Speaker 27: about the timing that we have
03:00:16 Speaker 27: coming with the remaining items that
03:00:19 Speaker 27: we have and some of the
03:00:21 Speaker 27: commitments that are happening later in
03:00:23 Speaker 27: the day. So, if we can
03:00:25 Speaker 27: come back, be in our seats
03:00:28 Speaker 27: in a half an hour at
03:00:30 Speaker 27: twenty-five two, we will carry on
03:00:31 Speaker 27: from there. Thank you. Okay, welcome
03:00:33 Speaker 27: back, Committee. The whole we have
03:00:35 Speaker 27: the go ahead from technology that
03:00:36 Speaker 27: we are reporting again. So we
03:00:39 Speaker 27: will pick up now after lunch.
03:00:41 Speaker 27: Before lunch, we had Director Taylor,
03:00:43 Speaker 27: and after lunch, we're going to
03:00:45 Speaker 27: have Director Taylor. So let me
03:00:48 Speaker 27: get this onto the floor before
03:00:50 Speaker 27: you speak from the lectern. Item
03:00:51 Speaker 27: seventy. It is recommended that this
03:00:53 Speaker 27: that report PD. That this that
03:00:55 Speaker 27: report PDRCW2326 be received, and that
03:00:57 Speaker 27: this report be sent as correspondence
03:00:59 Speaker 27: to the Township of Chatsworth, the
03:01:01 Speaker 27: Township of Georgian Bluffs, Municipality of
03:01:03 Speaker 27: Grey Highlands, Town of Hanover, Municipality
03:01:04 Speaker 27: of Meaford, Township of Southgate, and
03:01:06 Speaker 27: Municipality of West Grey, requesting confirmation
03:01:10 Speaker 27: by resolution of Council as to
03:01:12 Speaker 27: whether or not the municipalities are
03:01:15 Speaker 27: committing to the county's proposed hybrid
03:01:17 Speaker 27: planning services model or not, subject
03:01:18 Speaker 27: to acceptance of the final. memorandum
03:01:19 Speaker 27: of understanding, and that for those
03:01:21 Speaker 27: municipalities interested in joining the hybrid
03:01:23 Speaker 27: planning services model, that they also
03:01:27 Speaker 27: indicate their desired timing for joining
03:01:30 Speaker 27: the hybrid planning services model, but
03:01:31 Speaker 27: that such timelines do not precede
03:01:34 Speaker 27: January first, twenty twenty-seven, with the
03:01:36 Speaker 27: exception of the Township of Chatsworth,
03:01:39 Speaker 27: who already purchases planning services from
03:01:41 Speaker 27: the county. May I ask for
03:01:43 Speaker 27: a mover and a secondary? Moved
03:01:45 Speaker 27: by Councilor Debrine, seconded. Brain seconded,
03:01:48 Speaker 27: seconded by Councilor Pringle. It's now
03:01:50 Speaker 27: on the floor for discussion. Thank
03:01:53 Speaker 27: you, Director Taylor. Great. Good afternoon,
03:01:55 Speaker 27: Madam Warden, Members of Council. Thanks
03:01:57 Speaker 27: for allowing me to present to
03:01:59 Speaker 27: you today on this topic. I
03:02:01 Speaker 27: was trying to think of a
03:02:02 Speaker 27: good analogy to lead into into
03:02:04 Speaker 27: this one in terms of the
03:02:06 Speaker 27: decision that's that's before County Council
03:02:08 Speaker 27: today and and Municipal Councils. And
03:02:11 Speaker 27: I'll say I am happily married
03:02:14 Speaker 27: and I hope to stay that
03:02:17 Speaker 27: way. But with that being said,
03:02:19 Speaker 27: the decision before councils is kind
03:02:21 Speaker 27: of like when you've been in
03:02:22 Speaker 27: a long-term relationship. Maybe you've been
03:02:23 Speaker 27: in a relationship for ten years,
03:02:25 Speaker 27: and your eyes kind of start
03:02:27 Speaker 27: to stray. You're like, "Well, would
03:02:30 Speaker 27: it be better outside of this
03:02:31 Speaker 27: relationship? Should I be single? Should
03:02:33 Speaker 27: I be elsewhere?" And and it's
03:02:35 Speaker 27: not easy to come to that
03:02:37 Speaker 27: right decision. And and you know,
03:02:39 Speaker 27: I want to stress that there's
03:02:42 Speaker 27: nothing wrong with the current model.
03:02:44 Speaker 27: And and county, sorry, and and
03:02:45 Speaker 27: the county municipalities could could could
03:02:46 Speaker 27: definitely stick with the current model.
03:02:48 Speaker 27: staff were directed to to look
03:02:49 Speaker 27: at planning efficiencies and and alternate
03:02:50 Speaker 27: approaches, and and that's what we
03:02:51 Speaker 27: have before you. But but you
03:02:52 Speaker 27: know we we can't predict the
03:02:54 Speaker 27: future, and and there could be
03:02:55 Speaker 27: challenges with the new model. It
03:02:57 Speaker 27: could be more efficient. There could
03:02:58 Speaker 27: be opportunities with the new model.
03:03:00 Speaker 27: But but again, it's one to
03:03:02 Speaker 27: stress that that none of this
03:03:04 Speaker 27: was meant to to be a
03:03:04 Speaker 27: criticism of municipal or county planning
03:03:06 Speaker 27: processes. But in in the spirit
03:03:07 Speaker 27: of of ongoing improvements, we're happy
03:03:10 Speaker 27: to do this work, and we're
03:03:11 Speaker 27: happy to look into it and
03:03:12 Speaker 27: try to put the best information
03:03:14 Speaker 27: we can in front of County
03:03:16 Speaker 27: Council and, and in turn, your
03:03:18 Speaker 27: municipal councils, in hopes that everyone
03:03:21 Speaker 27: can make an informed decision in
03:03:23 Speaker 27: that regard. So this is a
03:03:24 Speaker 27: bit of a background. The efficiencies
03:03:25 Speaker 27: work started in in 2023, and
03:03:27 Speaker 27: and some people may remember back
03:03:28 Speaker 27: to then. And and you know,
03:03:30 Speaker 27: many, including builders and and the
03:03:31 Speaker 27: provincial government, had said that that
03:03:34 Speaker 27: the planning process needed some some
03:03:35 Speaker 27: improvements, and and things were taking
03:03:36 Speaker 27: too long to get shovels in
03:03:39 Speaker 27: the ground. and so the county,
03:03:40 Speaker 27: in partnership with our member municipalities,
03:03:41 Speaker 27: looked at what we could do
03:03:43 Speaker 27: locally to to improve those processes.
03:03:44 Speaker 27: In early 2024, there was a
03:03:46 Speaker 27: white paper presented to county council
03:03:48 Speaker 27: with some recommendations for improvements to
03:03:51 Speaker 27: the county's own system and some
03:03:53 Speaker 27: suggestions that municipalities could consider as
03:03:54 Speaker 27: well. I'm pleased to say that
03:03:56 Speaker 27: most of those recommendations have been
03:03:57 Speaker 27: implemented at both the the county
03:04:00 Speaker 27: and municipal level, and that we
03:04:01 Speaker 27: have seen some improvements in our
03:04:03 Speaker 27: processes since then. As part of
03:04:06 Speaker 27: that. efficiencies work, there was also
03:04:08 Speaker 27: the suggestion that maybe we need
03:04:10 Speaker 27: to reexamine the two tier planning
03:04:12 Speaker 27: model as a whole. And and
03:04:13 Speaker 27: in that regard, we we had
03:04:14 Speaker 27: a series of of discussions with
03:04:15 Speaker 27: both county council, the joint councils,
03:04:17 Speaker 27: and each of your municipal tables.
03:04:18 Speaker 27: Some of those were were in
03:04:19 Speaker 27: closed session, and some of them
03:04:21 Speaker 27: were in open session. But there
03:04:23 Speaker 27: was a lot of information presented
03:04:24 Speaker 27: and discussed back then. So the
03:04:26 Speaker 27: the early iteration of a revised
03:04:27 Speaker 27: two-tier model, if you were, was
03:04:31 Speaker 27: going to be a centralized planning
03:04:32 Speaker 27: system. Under that centralized planning system,
03:04:33 Speaker 27: it would have all nine municipalities
03:04:35 Speaker 27: working together with the county, whereby
03:04:37 Speaker 27: all planners would be at the
03:04:39 Speaker 27: county level. The model, right from
03:04:41 Speaker 27: the get-go, was was proposing that
03:04:43 Speaker 27: administrative support and directors would stay
03:04:45 Speaker 27: at the municipal level, particularly because
03:04:46 Speaker 27: in in many cases your your
03:04:48 Speaker 27: admin staff at the front line
03:04:50 Speaker 27: at the the municipal level. Line
03:04:51 Speaker 27: at the municipal level, and also
03:04:52 Speaker 27: your directors are wearing multiple hats.
03:04:53 Speaker 27: So very rarely was it ever
03:04:55 Speaker 27: just a planning support or just
03:04:57 Speaker 27: a planning director. They were looking
03:04:58 Speaker 27: after planning or building or bylaw
03:05:01 Speaker 27: or anything. So so that was
03:05:02 Speaker 27: the original thought. After much discussion
03:05:05 Speaker 27: and and reporting, it went back
03:05:06 Speaker 27: to municipalities. Seven of the nine
03:05:07 Speaker 27: expressed an in principle, yep,
03:05:09 Speaker 27: let's dig further into this, and
03:05:12 Speaker 27: and two of the nine, being
03:05:13 Speaker 27: the town of the Blue Mountains
03:05:15 Speaker 27: and City of Owen Sound, said
03:05:17 Speaker 27: no, thank you at this time.
03:05:19 Speaker 27: So we proceeded with with shifting
03:05:21 Speaker 27: from a centralized model to what
03:05:24 Speaker 27: we refer to now as a
03:05:26 Speaker 27: hybrid model, and how that could
03:05:27 Speaker 27: work with respect to to those
03:05:29 Speaker 27: seven municipalities that had had expressed
03:05:31 Speaker 27: in principle support. And I will
03:05:32 Speaker 27: say that that the the support
03:05:36 Speaker 27: was very much in principle. Nobody
03:05:39 Speaker 27: was signing on the dotted line,
03:05:41 Speaker 27: and and the comment we heard
03:05:43 Speaker 27: over and over and over was,
03:05:45 Speaker 27: "We need to see what this
03:05:46 Speaker 27: is going to cost. We need
03:05:47 Speaker 27: to see the financials, and we
03:05:49 Speaker 27: need to see a framework of
03:05:51 Speaker 27: how this could work." So we
03:05:54 Speaker 27: need to see you know, what
03:05:56 Speaker 27: a draft memorandum of understanding could
03:05:58 Speaker 27: look like. And so there's been
03:05:59 Speaker 27: a lot of work that has
03:06:01 Speaker 27: gone into both presenting the draft
03:06:02 Speaker 27: financials and as as well as
03:06:03 Speaker 27: the draft MOU. And I will
03:06:05 Speaker 27: say, with respect to that work,
03:06:06 Speaker 27: it involved a lot of your
03:06:09 Speaker 27: own staff, your planning staff, your
03:06:12 Speaker 27: finance staff, and and it also
03:06:14 Speaker 27: involved a lot of our our
03:06:15 Speaker 27: county staff. We've got some of
03:06:16 Speaker 27: our county finance folks in the
03:06:18 Speaker 27: room here today. We also had
03:06:20 Speaker 27: significant discussions with our legal services
03:06:22 Speaker 27: staff, with with our IT staff,
03:06:23 Speaker 27: our human resources. staff, the CEO
03:06:25 Speaker 27: and deputy. So there's been a
03:06:26 Speaker 27: lot that's gone into this, and
03:06:27 Speaker 27: as much as I might make
03:06:29 Speaker 27: glib comments at the beginning of
03:06:30 Speaker 27: this, we've really tried to put
03:06:32 Speaker 27: our best foot forward here for
03:06:34 Speaker 27: council in that regard. And so
03:06:36 Speaker 27: again, you know, why look at
03:06:38 Speaker 27: a new model? And this was
03:06:40 Speaker 27: was directed from from council. The
03:06:41 Speaker 27: current model does work, but you
03:06:42 Speaker 27: know, with any model, you can
03:06:44 Speaker 27: always look for for room for
03:06:46 Speaker 27: improvement. And and so are there
03:06:48 Speaker 27: things that we can collectively be
03:06:49 Speaker 27: doing that would make for a
03:06:52 Speaker 27: better development experience in Grey County,
03:06:53 Speaker 27: and and ideally maybe. you know
03:06:55 Speaker 27: a speedier path towards towards shovels
03:06:57 Speaker 27: in the ground. In that regard,
03:06:59 Speaker 27: none of this is meant to
03:07:00 Speaker 27: be a criticism of of local
03:07:02 Speaker 27: or or county planners. In
03:07:05 Speaker 27: that regard, and and I would
03:07:07 Speaker 27: say that that municipal and county
03:07:08 Speaker 27: planners are are trained professionals and
03:07:11 Speaker 27: and very very dedicated to their
03:07:13 Speaker 27: communities and and take their jobs
03:07:14 Speaker 27: very seriously. In that regard, and
03:07:16 Speaker 27: so the investigations when we started
03:07:18 Speaker 27: this, you know, why would we
03:07:20 Speaker 27: do this? We were looking at
03:07:22 Speaker 27: this in terms of you know,
03:07:23 Speaker 27: is there ways we can avoid
03:07:25 Speaker 27: duplication in in the planning process?
03:07:28 Speaker 27: So when you have a planner
03:07:29 Speaker 27: at the county. level reviewing a
03:07:31 Speaker 27: subdivision and a planner at the
03:07:33 Speaker 27: municipal level reviewing the the associated
03:07:34 Speaker 27: zoning amendment, you know, are we
03:07:35 Speaker 27: kind of doing elements of the
03:07:37 Speaker 27: same thing, even though we're reporting
03:07:39 Speaker 27: to different political bodies and and
03:07:41 Speaker 27: maybe looking at different things? But
03:07:43 Speaker 27: are there ways we can avoid
03:07:44 Speaker 27: some of that duplication? We're also
03:07:45 Speaker 27: looking at greater ability for collaboration
03:07:47 Speaker 27: and and information sharing. So so
03:07:48 Speaker 27: if you have more planners under
03:07:51 Speaker 27: the same you know collective roof,
03:07:53 Speaker 27: so to speak, are there lessons
03:07:55 Speaker 27: that we could more easily share
03:07:57 Speaker 27: and learn from? So if one
03:07:59 Speaker 27: municipality had had already solved
03:08:01 Speaker 27: an issue, could we sort of
03:08:04 Speaker 27: copy and paste some of that
03:08:05 Speaker 27: or adapt some of that to
03:08:07 Speaker 27: to help solve a similar issue
03:08:09 Speaker 27: in a neighboring municipality? In that
03:08:11 Speaker 27: regard, one of the things that
03:08:14 Speaker 27: was talked about heavily in in
03:08:16 Speaker 27: 2023 and 2024, and and is
03:08:18 Speaker 27: still talked about to a lesser
03:08:20 Speaker 27: degree, was the shortage of planners
03:08:21 Speaker 27: both in Ontario and nationally. And
03:08:23 Speaker 27: I know some of you have
03:08:26 Speaker 27: been through very difficult recruitment processes
03:08:28 Speaker 27: or been unable to recruit, and
03:08:30 Speaker 27: particularly for those of you that
03:08:33 Speaker 27: might have smaller planning departments, in
03:08:34 Speaker 27: some cases. a single incumbent planner.
03:08:35 Speaker 27: There was the thought that that
03:08:36 Speaker 27: if if we were hiring to
03:08:38 Speaker 27: a larger organization, maybe a planner
03:08:40 Speaker 27: would be more likely to to
03:08:41 Speaker 27: want to be part of a
03:08:43 Speaker 27: bigger team. I'm told we're we're
03:08:46 Speaker 27: social animals, but also be able
03:08:49 Speaker 27: to learn and and provide that
03:08:51 Speaker 27: that sort of in house mentoring
03:08:53 Speaker 27: and and maybe more specialization in
03:08:54 Speaker 27: the training opportunities that that if
03:08:56 Speaker 27: if we harnessed our our collective
03:08:57 Speaker 27: buying power in that regard, we
03:08:59 Speaker 27: could we could leverage in that
03:09:00 Speaker 27: regard. we also thought if you
03:09:02 Speaker 27: if you had a slightly bigger
03:09:04 Speaker 27: team by combining the county and
03:09:06 Speaker 27: and some municipal planners, you might
03:09:09 Speaker 27: have more opportunity for specialization of
03:09:11 Speaker 27: skill sets, and it would also
03:09:12 Speaker 27: create less of a gap. Hopefully,
03:09:14 Speaker 27: when somebody leaves, and again for
03:09:15 Speaker 27: those of you with single incumbent
03:09:16 Speaker 27: planners, you know if your planner
03:09:17 Speaker 27: gives their two weeks notice and
03:09:20 Speaker 27: and they're gone in two weeks,
03:09:22 Speaker 27: then then you're without a planner,
03:09:25 Speaker 27: and so not only have you
03:09:26 Speaker 27: lost that institutional knowledge, you don't
03:09:28 Speaker 27: have that backfill ability until you
03:09:31 Speaker 27: can get a new person hired
03:09:33 Speaker 27: in that regard, so there was
03:09:35 Speaker 27: thought that if you know if
03:09:37 Speaker 27: we're all working together, there could
03:09:39 Speaker 27: be some some benefits that that
03:09:41 Speaker 27: would flow from that. And so,
03:09:43 Speaker 27: with respect to the hybrid model
03:09:44 Speaker 27: in specific, I want to go
03:09:45 Speaker 27: through a few of the details,
03:09:47 Speaker 27: and I'll get to a little
03:09:48 Speaker 27: bit more in in in a
03:09:50 Speaker 27: couple slides time when we get
03:09:51 Speaker 27: into the draft memorandum of understanding.
03:09:53 Speaker 27: With respect to the hybrid model,
03:09:54 Speaker 27: the county would continue to offer
03:09:56 Speaker 27: the same planning services it currently
03:09:57 Speaker 27: does to all nine member municipalities.
03:09:59 Speaker 27: So, with the exception of the
03:10:00 Speaker 27: city of Onondaga. The city of
03:10:01 Speaker 27: Oceanside, you know, the county is
03:10:03 Speaker 27: still the approval authority for for
03:10:06 Speaker 27: plans of subdivision and condominium. We
03:10:07 Speaker 27: would still maintain and update the
03:10:09 Speaker 27: county official plan and all those
03:10:10 Speaker 27: things that the county normally does.
03:10:11 Speaker 27: With respect to those municipalities that
03:10:13 Speaker 27: might sign on to a hybrid
03:10:14 Speaker 27: model, the county would also provide
03:10:16 Speaker 27: those local planning services, and so
03:10:17 Speaker 27: the planners at the municipal level
03:10:20 Speaker 27: would would shift up to
03:10:22 Speaker 27: the county, and and we would
03:10:24 Speaker 27: provide those those application processing services
03:10:26 Speaker 27: for consents, minor variances, site plans,
03:10:28 Speaker 27: and zoning amendments. In that regard,
03:10:29 Speaker 27: and also be advising municipal staff
03:10:32 Speaker 27: and council in that regard. As
03:10:35 Speaker 27: I noted with respect to the
03:10:37 Speaker 27: comments on the centralized model, the
03:10:39 Speaker 27: the intent under a hybrid model
03:10:41 Speaker 27: again is is that your admins
03:10:43 Speaker 27: and directors would stay at the
03:10:45 Speaker 27: municipal level. And again, many of
03:10:46 Speaker 27: those wear many hats and and
03:10:50 Speaker 27: are are very busy in that
03:10:51 Speaker 27: regard. And and the important thing
03:10:53 Speaker 27: to note here is that under
03:10:55 Speaker 27: the hybrid model, all the approval
03:10:57 Speaker 27: authorities would still stay the same.
03:10:59 Speaker 27: So if you have a municipal
03:11:01 Speaker 27: committee of adjustment that approves consents
03:11:04 Speaker 27: and minor variances, that is still
03:11:05 Speaker 27: coming to that municipal committee of
03:11:07 Speaker 27: adjustment. Your council is already approving
03:11:09 Speaker 27: zoning amendments. That's still coming to
03:11:10 Speaker 27: your council in that regard. So
03:11:11 Speaker 27: although there might be different people,
03:11:13 Speaker 27: or maybe even the same people,
03:11:15 Speaker 27: presenting to your municipal councils and
03:11:16 Speaker 27: committees, none of the approval authorities
03:11:18 Speaker 27: are are meant to change through
03:11:20 Speaker 27: this. So there is still that
03:11:21 Speaker 27: that direct line of sight for
03:11:24 Speaker 27: municipalities over those municipal planning applications
03:11:25 Speaker 27: and municipal planning documents in that
03:11:28 Speaker 27: regard. So I did just want
03:11:30 Speaker 27: to offer a note on Chatsworth
03:11:33 Speaker 27: because when. we first started these
03:11:36 Speaker 27: discussions some years ago, Chatsworth was
03:11:38 Speaker 27: using the services of a local
03:11:39 Speaker 27: planning consultant, and and they provided
03:11:42 Speaker 27: those services on obviously a fee
03:11:44 Speaker 27: for service basis and and on
03:11:46 Speaker 27: an as needed basis. Since we
03:11:49 Speaker 27: started these discussions approximately a year
03:11:50 Speaker 27: ago, that consultant has left Chatsworth,
03:11:51 Speaker 27: and and on an interim basis,
03:11:53 Speaker 27: the county has taken on providing
03:11:55 Speaker 27: planning services for Chatsworth in that
03:11:58 Speaker 27: regard on a cost recovery model.
03:11:59 Speaker 27: So in that regard, you know
03:12:03 Speaker 27: that the county is kind of
03:12:05 Speaker 27: treated like a consultant, so to
03:12:07 Speaker 27: speak. In that, we we bill
03:12:08 Speaker 27: out our staff time, and and
03:12:11 Speaker 27: a senior planner costs more than
03:12:13 Speaker 27: an entry level planner in that
03:12:14 Speaker 27: regard. But we provide those those
03:12:16 Speaker 27: local services for for Chatsworth in
03:12:18 Speaker 27: that regard. When when this came
03:12:19 Speaker 27: about, we were at a bit
03:12:20 Speaker 27: of a lull in in planning
03:12:23 Speaker 27: applications. They weren't quite as strong
03:12:24 Speaker 27: as they had been in in
03:12:25 Speaker 27: 22 and 23, and and so
03:12:28 Speaker 27: the county didn't need to upstaff
03:12:29 Speaker 27: in that regard. We didn't hire
03:12:31 Speaker 27: any new bodies, but rather we
03:12:32 Speaker 27: were providing those those local services
03:12:34 Speaker 27: to Chatsworth. with the existing the
03:12:36 Speaker 27: existing staff we had on hand.
03:12:38 Speaker 27: With respect to Chatsworth, there were
03:12:40 Speaker 27: some discussions early on. You know,
03:12:41 Speaker 27: do you want in person customer
03:12:44 Speaker 27: service? Do you want someone you
03:12:46 Speaker 27: know at a desk two days
03:12:48 Speaker 27: a week or five days a
03:12:51 Speaker 27: week? And and Chatsworth didn't require
03:12:53 Speaker 27: in person service, but but our
03:12:54 Speaker 27: staff do attend the the councilor
03:12:55 Speaker 27: committee meetings where they have a
03:12:57 Speaker 27: planning item on the agenda. We
03:12:59 Speaker 27: certainly do lots of email and
03:13:01 Speaker 27: virtual consultation with with residents and
03:13:03 Speaker 27: developers in Chatsworth and. and and
03:13:05 Speaker 27: make ourselves available. And I shouldn't
03:13:07 Speaker 27: say ourselves because I don't. But
03:13:08 Speaker 27: our staff are available on an
03:13:10 Speaker 27: as-needed basis for those in-person meetings.
03:13:11 Speaker 27: And and you know, I'll certainly
03:13:12 Speaker 27: defer to to Councillor Mackey here
03:13:13 Speaker 27: in a few minutes. But I
03:13:15 Speaker 27: would say there's been some hiccups,
03:13:17 Speaker 27: but generally it's been going okay.
03:13:19 Speaker 27: And and we've learned a lot
03:13:21 Speaker 27: through this process that might be
03:13:22 Speaker 27: applicable if the county or other
03:13:25 Speaker 27: municipalities were to to look at
03:13:27 Speaker 27: a hybrid system in that regard.
03:13:29 Speaker 27: The one thing I will say
03:13:30 Speaker 27: with respect to Chatsworth is because
03:13:32 Speaker 27: it was on an interim basis,
03:13:35 Speaker 27: and because we didn't have sort
03:13:37 Speaker 27: of the financial Because we didn't
03:13:38 Speaker 27: have sort of the financials all
03:13:40 Speaker 27: worked out, the way it's done
03:13:42 Speaker 27: there is again billing our time
03:13:44 Speaker 27: almost like a consultant. So we
03:13:46 Speaker 27: spent you know one hour on
03:13:49 Speaker 27: this consent application, and we spent
03:13:50 Speaker 27: two hours on this other thing.
03:13:52 Speaker 27: So it is it is a
03:13:54 Speaker 27: little bit more cumbersome in terms
03:13:55 Speaker 27: of that time tracking and billing.
03:13:56 Speaker 27: And so if we were going
03:13:58 Speaker 27: to implement an equivalent model across
03:14:00 Speaker 27: multiple municipalities, we've suggested a slightly
03:14:02 Speaker 27: different model that still gets us
03:14:02 Speaker 27: to cost recovery for the hybrid
03:14:05 Speaker 27: services in that regard. And so
03:14:08 Speaker 27: with respect to the draft memorandum
03:14:11 Speaker 27: of understanding, this document is is
03:14:12 Speaker 27: is covered, you know, on a
03:14:14 Speaker 27: on a cursory basis in the
03:14:15 Speaker 27: staff report. The exact memorandum of
03:14:18 Speaker 27: understanding has been shared with your
03:14:19 Speaker 27: with your staff. There's been numerous
03:14:21 Speaker 27: rounds of consultation on it, and
03:14:23 Speaker 27: and some of your staff have
03:14:24 Speaker 27: provided very very detailed and thoughtful
03:14:25 Speaker 27: feedback in this regard, both at
03:14:28 Speaker 27: the the planning level or the
03:14:30 Speaker 27: CIO level or even the financial
03:14:31 Speaker 27: level. In that regard, we haven't
03:14:33 Speaker 27: worked to finalize. that draft yet.
03:14:35 Speaker 27: Simply put, staff didn't want to
03:14:37 Speaker 27: invest too much time into, you
03:14:38 Speaker 27: know, working out all the fine
03:14:41 Speaker 27: details of the MOU if county
03:14:43 Speaker 27: council or each of our member
03:14:45 Speaker 27: municipal councils was just going to
03:14:48 Speaker 27: say, "Yeah, the hybrid model really
03:14:50 Speaker 27: isn't for us." So, you know,
03:14:51 Speaker 27: we we've hopefully provided enough that
03:14:53 Speaker 27: we have a proof of concept.
03:14:55 Speaker 27: This is what it could look
03:14:58 Speaker 27: like, but don't have a finalized
03:15:00 Speaker 27: version yet. And certainly, if if
03:15:02 Speaker 27: county council supports the staff recommendation
03:15:03 Speaker 27: today, and if some of your
03:15:05 Speaker 27: member municipalities support joining. on to
03:15:08 Speaker 27: the the hybrid model. Then we
03:15:11 Speaker 27: take all that detailed feedback that
03:15:13 Speaker 27: was was collected, and we'd look
03:15:15 Speaker 27: to to revise the memorandum of
03:15:16 Speaker 27: understanding and and and hopefully come
03:15:18 Speaker 27: up with a final version in
03:15:21 Speaker 27: that regard. That MOU was based
03:15:22 Speaker 27: on a number of of MOUs
03:15:24 Speaker 27: from other county planning departments across
03:15:26 Speaker 27: the province, and and you know
03:15:28 Speaker 27: each one had had you know
03:15:31 Speaker 27: slightly different wording, but there was
03:15:33 Speaker 27: a lot of similarities that we
03:15:34 Speaker 27: could we could adapt into
03:15:37 Speaker 27: a potential made in gray. solution
03:15:39 Speaker 27: in that regard, and so with
03:15:42 Speaker 27: respect to some of the details
03:15:45 Speaker 27: of the MOU, one of the
03:15:47 Speaker 27: the key things to highlight here
03:15:49 Speaker 27: is that each municipality, as as
03:15:50 Speaker 27: an appendix to the MOU, if
03:15:51 Speaker 27: you sign on, would specify what
03:15:53 Speaker 27: level of in person service delivery
03:15:55 Speaker 27: would you like. Do you want
03:15:57 Speaker 27: somebody or multiple people in office
03:15:59 Speaker 27: five days a week? Do you
03:16:00 Speaker 27: want someone in office two days
03:16:02 Speaker 27: a week? What does that look
03:16:04 Speaker 27: like in your municipality? And and
03:16:05 Speaker 27: you know just because someone might.
03:16:08 Speaker 27: not be in office, there would
03:16:09 Speaker 27: still be access to somebody remotely,
03:16:11 Speaker 27: whether by email or Teams or
03:16:12 Speaker 27: Zoom or anything else like that.
03:16:13 Speaker 27: But we wanted to be very
03:16:15 Speaker 27: clear that through this system, if
03:16:17 Speaker 27: it were to proceed, we're not
03:16:20 Speaker 27: looking to pull planners out of
03:16:21 Speaker 27: those municipal and township offices. In
03:16:23 Speaker 27: that regard, you would still have
03:16:24 Speaker 27: that face-to-face access, both for the
03:16:26 Speaker 27: public and council, but also for
03:16:28 Speaker 27: all your neighboring departments that need
03:16:30 Speaker 27: to work closely with planning. You
03:16:33 Speaker 27: know, things like public works and
03:16:36 Speaker 27: and operations and parks and rec
03:16:39 Speaker 27: in that regard, we felt that
03:16:40 Speaker 27: that in person service where municipality
03:16:41 Speaker 27: was asking for was very important.
03:16:44 Speaker 27: One of the other things
03:16:45 Speaker 27: in the MOU is that it
03:16:47 Speaker 27: looks to define what a core
03:16:49 Speaker 27: planning service is, and and so
03:16:50 Speaker 27: first and foremost, some of the
03:16:52 Speaker 27: most visible might be processing those
03:16:54 Speaker 27: applications and inquiries. So someone comes
03:16:57 Speaker 27: in and says, "Hey, what
03:16:58 Speaker 27: can I what can I do
03:17:01 Speaker 27: on my property, or I'd
03:17:03 Speaker 27: like to to to rezone my
03:17:06 Speaker 27: property, or a consent." So that
03:17:07 Speaker 27: would all be that would all
03:17:09 Speaker 27: be a core planning service. We'd
03:17:10 Speaker 27: also look to prepare official plan
03:17:12 Speaker 27: amendments and zoning bylaw amendments in
03:17:13 Speaker 27: that regard. We'd look to provide
03:17:16 Speaker 27: advice both to to municipal councils
03:17:18 Speaker 27: and committees, but also to municipal
03:17:19 Speaker 27: staff in that regard. Again, those
03:17:21 Speaker 27: those departments that work very closely
03:17:22 Speaker 27: with planning, and and and we'd
03:17:23 Speaker 27: work to keep municipal councils up
03:17:26 Speaker 27: to date on any new legislative
03:17:27 Speaker 27: changes or emerging planning topics. You
03:17:29 Speaker 27: might have a particular issue in
03:17:31 Speaker 27: in your municipality that you want
03:17:33 Speaker 27: researched, and and so staff would
03:17:35 Speaker 27: would work to to help research
03:17:39 Speaker 27: those topics. One of the other
03:17:41 Speaker 27: core tenets of the MOU is
03:17:42 Speaker 27: every municipality would be assigned, you
03:17:44 Speaker 27: know, a primary planner or a
03:17:46 Speaker 27: primary planning contact, so you know
03:17:48 Speaker 27: you wouldn't be seeing a new
03:17:50 Speaker 27: face every day in your municipal
03:17:52 Speaker 27: office or at at your your
03:17:54 Speaker 27: council tables in that regard. So
03:17:56 Speaker 27: we wanted to try to maintain
03:18:00 Speaker 27: that consistency wherever possible. So conversely,
03:18:02 Speaker 27: the the MOU also defines what
03:18:04 Speaker 27: are non-core planning services. And so
03:18:05 Speaker 27: with respect to the non-core planning
03:18:08 Speaker 27: services, the creation of a
03:18:10 Speaker 27: new official plan or a
03:18:13 Speaker 27: new comprehensive zoning bylaw or major
03:18:16 Speaker 27: reviews. Our major reviews—that's considered to
03:18:18 Speaker 27: be a non-core planning service—and I'll
03:18:21 Speaker 27: get to to that a little
03:18:22 Speaker 27: further in just a second. But
03:18:24 Speaker 27: I know that many municipalities right
03:18:27 Speaker 27: now, when you have to do
03:18:28 Speaker 27: a new municipal official plan, you're
03:18:31 Speaker 27: already going out to utilize the
03:18:32 Speaker 27: the services of a consultant. In
03:18:33 Speaker 27: most cases, municipalities don't have sort
03:18:34 Speaker 27: of the in-house bench strength to
03:18:36 Speaker 27: take that on with their current
03:18:38 Speaker 27: staff and and still process all
03:18:40 Speaker 27: the applications. So that's not radically
03:18:41 Speaker 27: different. We would also specify that
03:18:44 Speaker 27: any municipal specific technical studies, such
03:18:47 Speaker 27: as a development chart Studies such
03:18:49 Speaker 27: as a development charges background study
03:18:50 Speaker 27: or an archaeological management plan; those
03:18:52 Speaker 27: aren't things that we have the
03:18:53 Speaker 27: expertise to do sort of
03:18:56 Speaker 27: in-house. So your your municipal councils
03:18:59 Speaker 27: would still be going likely out
03:19:01 Speaker 27: to consultants for those. The county
03:19:02 Speaker 27: planners are not qualified to provide
03:19:04 Speaker 27: legal advice. You don't want us
03:19:06 Speaker 27: giving legal advice or drafting legal
03:19:09 Speaker 27: agreements, but we could certainly work
03:19:10 Speaker 27: with your in-house departments and also
03:19:11 Speaker 27: either external legal or internal legal
03:19:15 Speaker 27: to to provide planning input into
03:19:16 Speaker 27: those agreements, and then. as I
03:19:18 Speaker 27: said earlier, the administrative tasks—things like
03:19:19 Speaker 27: mailouts or minute-taking or setting agendas—those
03:19:22 Speaker 27: will largely retain at the municipal
03:19:23 Speaker 27: level, whether with a planning assistant
03:19:24 Speaker 27: or, in the case of agendas,
03:19:26 Speaker 27: with with the clerk's department in
03:19:27 Speaker 27: that regard. And then there was
03:19:29 Speaker 27: sort of those non-planning permits or
03:19:31 Speaker 27: adjacent planning services, so things like
03:19:33 Speaker 27: a noise bylaw or short-term accommodations
03:19:34 Speaker 27: bylaw. Those generally wouldn't fall
03:19:36 Speaker 27: under the the guys
03:19:38 Speaker 27: of of core planning services. The
03:19:41 Speaker 27: MOU does set out consideration. You
03:19:44 Speaker 27: does set out consideration for if
03:19:46 Speaker 27: if the county and municipality want
03:19:49 Speaker 27: to negotiate for hey listen can
03:19:50 Speaker 27: the county do this official plan
03:19:52 Speaker 27: for us and and so of
03:19:54 Speaker 27: course it would be subject to
03:19:57 Speaker 27: budget and staffing some of the
03:19:59 Speaker 27: other counties had a model whereby
03:20:00 Speaker 27: if the municipality was going to
03:20:02 Speaker 27: go out to RFP to to
03:20:03 Speaker 27: to ask for a new official
03:20:05 Speaker 27: plan the county might choose to
03:20:07 Speaker 27: pull on that so there is
03:20:09 Speaker 27: the option to negotiate some of
03:20:11 Speaker 27: these non-core planning services in for
03:20:13 Speaker 27: your municipality on a on a
03:20:15 Speaker 27: one-time or more permanent basis but
03:20:17 Speaker 27: again it would. be very much
03:20:19 Speaker 27: subject to to the budget and
03:20:21 Speaker 27: staffing levels that are required to
03:20:23 Speaker 27: fulfill those duties. Aside from sort
03:20:25 Speaker 27: of the core planning duties, the
03:20:26 Speaker 27: MOU also looks at defining some
03:20:28 Speaker 27: of those shared responsibilities. So there's
03:20:29 Speaker 27: lots of things that don't fit
03:20:32 Speaker 27: neatly into a county bucket or
03:20:34 Speaker 27: a municipal bucket. Things like records
03:20:36 Speaker 27: management or freedom of information requests
03:20:37 Speaker 27: or dealing with appeals. It also
03:20:40 Speaker 27: looks at prioritizing how planning work
03:20:43 Speaker 27: is is is is handled. So
03:20:45 Speaker 27: generally speaking, a lot of the
03:20:47 Speaker 27: MOUs we saw. had, you know,
03:20:49 Speaker 27: first and foremost, your responsibility was
03:20:51 Speaker 27: to to receive and and process
03:20:52 Speaker 27: efficiently those planning applications. And then,
03:20:53 Speaker 27: you know, if you still had
03:20:55 Speaker 27: time, you could could do some
03:20:58 Speaker 27: of these other things. As with
03:21:00 Speaker 27: any agreement of this nature, there's
03:21:01 Speaker 27: there's dispute resolution clauses and protocols
03:21:03 Speaker 27: in that regard. And and there's
03:21:05 Speaker 27: also a reporting relationship established between
03:21:07 Speaker 27: the county and and any participating
03:21:09 Speaker 27: municipalities, such that there'd be that
03:21:10 Speaker 27: that feedback opportunity to talk about
03:21:11 Speaker 27: how things are going, to talk
03:21:13 Speaker 27: about where changes are needed. or
03:21:15 Speaker 27: the performance of of individual staff
03:21:18 Speaker 27: members in that regard, there's you
03:21:21 Speaker 27: know what I would think are
03:21:23 Speaker 27: fairly standard insurance and liability clauses,
03:21:25 Speaker 27: and then there's clauses around procurement.
03:21:27 Speaker 27: So again, if you're going out
03:21:28 Speaker 27: to to market on a specialized
03:21:29 Speaker 27: study or a new official plan,
03:21:31 Speaker 27: that would be done through your
03:21:34 Speaker 27: own municipal procurement processes. If we
03:21:36 Speaker 27: were looking at a specialized peer
03:21:38 Speaker 27: review on an individual development application
03:21:40 Speaker 27: and the municipality didn't already have
03:21:41 Speaker 27: a peer reviewer on hand, then
03:21:42 Speaker 27: that would likely be procured by
03:21:46 Speaker 27: the county. The the draft MOU
03:21:48 Speaker 27: also sets out human resources and
03:21:51 Speaker 27: information technology considerations, and we'll get
03:21:53 Speaker 27: into that more in in just
03:21:54 Speaker 27: a few slides here. So with
03:21:57 Speaker 27: respect to the draft financial model,
03:22:00 Speaker 27: again, this was shared. There was
03:22:01 Speaker 27: a spreadsheet shared with with your
03:22:03 Speaker 27: staff in that regard, and there's
03:22:05 Speaker 27: been discussions with municipal CAs and
03:22:07 Speaker 27: others on the the draft financials.
03:22:08 Speaker 27: The model is premised on the
03:22:10 Speaker 27: need for full cost recovery for
03:22:11 Speaker 27: those local planning services, and so
03:22:13 Speaker 27: what we wanted to make. sure
03:22:15 Speaker 27: was that any non-participating municipality isn't
03:22:17 Speaker 27: subsidizing the local planning services of
03:22:19 Speaker 27: of a participating municipality. The model
03:22:21 Speaker 27: the model is also premised on
03:22:24 Speaker 27: on the basis that we're assuming
03:22:25 Speaker 27: that you know your and we
03:22:27 Speaker 27: are appropriately staffed right now, including
03:22:28 Speaker 27: any vacant positions. So, if your
03:22:30 Speaker 27: municipality has has two planners, we're
03:22:31 Speaker 27: assuming that's what you need going
03:22:33 Speaker 27: forward. There's review clauses built into
03:22:34 Speaker 27: the agreement to say you know
03:22:36 Speaker 27: every so often we need to
03:22:38 Speaker 27: review those, maybe. you need more
03:22:39 Speaker 27: or less planners, but for the
03:22:41 Speaker 27: purposes of establishing, you know, level
03:22:43 Speaker 27: one of this agreement, so to
03:22:45 Speaker 27: speak, we assume that staffing levels,
03:22:46 Speaker 27: factoring in those vacancies, are appropriate
03:22:48 Speaker 27: in that regard. I mentioned earlier
03:22:50 Speaker 27: the billing model with Chatsworth and
03:22:52 Speaker 27: billing out on an hourly basis.
03:22:54 Speaker 27: If we were to take this
03:22:58 Speaker 27: on for a number of municipalities,
03:22:59 Speaker 27: we felt that municipalities needed greater
03:23:01 Speaker 27: cost certainty, and and we also
03:23:03 Speaker 27: needed to have a sort of
03:23:05 Speaker 27: keep it simple approach. If you
03:23:07 Speaker 27: But simple approach, if you will,
03:23:10 Speaker 27: and so the model we propose
03:23:12 Speaker 27: to to municipal staff and and
03:23:15 Speaker 27: are sharing with council here today
03:23:18 Speaker 27: would be that the county would
03:23:19 Speaker 27: bill out based on on the
03:23:21 Speaker 27: full time employee needs of your
03:23:24 Speaker 27: municipality. So if your municipality needed
03:23:27 Speaker 27: one senior planner and one entry
03:23:28 Speaker 27: level planner, you would be billed
03:23:30 Speaker 27: for those those individuals for the
03:23:32 Speaker 27: year, and that way, going into
03:23:34 Speaker 27: the year, you would know that
03:23:36 Speaker 27: that you know that's what you
03:23:37 Speaker 27: could expect to pay for your
03:23:40 Speaker 27: planning services. That would cover not
03:23:42 Speaker 27: only salaries and benefits, but also
03:23:44 Speaker 27: things like IT. costs, training, and
03:23:45 Speaker 27: professional memberships in that regard. Again,
03:23:47 Speaker 27: to make sure that those non-participating
03:23:48 Speaker 27: municipalities aren't subsidizing the participating municipalities.
03:23:51 Speaker 27: With respect to some more details
03:23:53 Speaker 27: on the the financial model, the
03:23:54 Speaker 27: way it's proposed right now is
03:23:56 Speaker 27: that all local applications would stay
03:23:58 Speaker 27: at the municipal level. So municipal
03:24:00 Speaker 27: councils would still be in charge
03:24:01 Speaker 27: of of collecting the revenue from
03:24:02 Speaker 27: those local applications and also setting
03:24:03 Speaker 27: the fees required for those local
03:24:05 Speaker 27: applications. So Local application, so you
03:24:05 Speaker 27: know, it as a consent application
03:24:06 Speaker 27: costs someone fifteen hundred bucks or
03:24:08 Speaker 27: two thousand or what have you,
03:24:10 Speaker 27: and and that would allow municipalities
03:24:12 Speaker 27: to remain in the driver's seat
03:24:14 Speaker 27: with respect to what level of
03:24:16 Speaker 27: costs they're looking to recoup for
03:24:18 Speaker 27: through application revenue. And I should
03:24:20 Speaker 27: specify that those costs that they're
03:24:22 Speaker 27: looking to recoup might be for
03:24:25 Speaker 27: planners that are are potentially coming
03:24:27 Speaker 27: up to the county, but they
03:24:29 Speaker 27: might also be for those services
03:24:29 Speaker 27: that are remaining in house at
03:24:31 Speaker 27: the municipal level. So you know,
03:24:33 Speaker 27: part of a director's time or
03:24:35 Speaker 27: or an admin person's time, or
03:24:37 Speaker 27: other cost related to the the
03:24:41 Speaker 27: planning services that would be retained
03:24:42 Speaker 27: municipal. One of the things in
03:24:44 Speaker 27: the MOU and in the draft
03:24:46 Speaker 27: financials is it's assuming that if
03:24:47 Speaker 27: if municipalities want in person service
03:24:51 Speaker 27: delivery, that they would be providing
03:24:55 Speaker 27: office space for those county employees
03:24:56 Speaker 27: at no cost to the county.
03:24:58 Speaker 27: Simply put, it it probably wouldn't
03:24:59 Speaker 27: make sense to build the county
03:25:01 Speaker 27: because then we'd just be building
03:25:02 Speaker 27: that service back. So so that
03:25:04 Speaker 27: was the the premise. There, the
03:25:05 Speaker 27: municipalities would continue to pay
03:25:07 Speaker 27: for those special projects, like the
03:25:10 Speaker 27: development charge background study or a
03:25:12 Speaker 27: new official plan. In that regard,
03:25:13 Speaker 27: and the municipalities would pay for
03:25:15 Speaker 27: any specialized municipal specific software. So,
03:25:17 Speaker 27: if your municipality uses a software
03:25:18 Speaker 27: that you would require a county
03:25:20 Speaker 27: planner to have a license for,
03:25:21 Speaker 27: then we'd look for for you
03:25:22 Speaker 27: to to cover those costs in
03:25:24 Speaker 27: that regard. With respect to some
03:25:26 Speaker 27: of the IT considerations, Jody has
03:25:29 Speaker 27: been a wonderful help here, and
03:25:33 Speaker 27: and and as have your municipal
03:25:35 Speaker 27: staff. in in helping us understand
03:25:37 Speaker 27: your current systems and what
03:25:39 Speaker 27: that could look like if we
03:25:40 Speaker 27: were to transition to a hybrid
03:25:43 Speaker 27: model for for some of the
03:25:44 Speaker 27: municipalities. Essentially, the the county staff
03:25:46 Speaker 27: working for your municipalities would need
03:25:48 Speaker 27: access to to both our county
03:25:50 Speaker 27: networks and your local network in
03:25:52 Speaker 27: that regard. And and we'd
03:25:54 Speaker 27: want to try to make that
03:25:56 Speaker 27: document sharing as as as painless
03:25:58 Speaker 27: as possible. Being county employees, they
03:25:59 Speaker 27: would they would the costs from
03:26:01 Speaker 27: the county would cover licensing of
03:26:02 Speaker 27: all county software. in that regard,
03:26:04 Speaker 27: so the core core services we
03:26:06 Speaker 27: use, like Microsoft 365, or
03:26:09 Speaker 27: we use a specific software in
03:26:11 Speaker 27: our planning department called the Great
03:26:13 Speaker 27: Information Network, or our GIN system.
03:26:16 Speaker 27: So those would be things that
03:26:17 Speaker 27: the county would would look to
03:26:19 Speaker 27: cover and bill back to the
03:26:21 Speaker 27: municipalities. And then, as I said,
03:26:24 Speaker 27: if there was any municipal specific
03:26:25 Speaker 27: software, then that would be licensed
03:26:27 Speaker 27: by the municipality. One of the
03:26:29 Speaker 27: things that we've we've heard from
03:26:30 Speaker 27: from the municipal staff quite often
03:26:32 Speaker 27: is, you know, could we look
03:26:34 Speaker 27: at some standardization? for for particularly
03:26:35 Speaker 27: those those planning softwares in that
03:26:36 Speaker 27: regard. And so, you know, we
03:26:38 Speaker 27: couldn't really answer that just yet
03:26:39 Speaker 27: until we know, you know, who's
03:26:41 Speaker 27: signing on and who's not, or
03:26:43 Speaker 27: if anyone's signing on. So the
03:26:45 Speaker 27: thought would be, if this model
03:26:47 Speaker 27: does get established, that that once
03:26:49 Speaker 27: we know sort of who who
03:26:50 Speaker 27: we're partnering with, if it happens,
03:26:52 Speaker 27: then we would look at whether
03:26:54 Speaker 27: or not there's there's some efficiencies
03:26:55 Speaker 27: to be gained from some software
03:26:57 Speaker 27: standardization in that regard. I am
03:26:58 Speaker 27: aware that some municipalities have held
03:27:00 Speaker 27: off on purchasing new software platforms
03:27:03 Speaker 27: on the basis that this might.
03:27:05 Speaker 27: all change if if the county
03:27:08 Speaker 27: were to assume these hybrid services.
03:27:09 Speaker 27: With respect to human resources considerations,
03:27:11 Speaker 27: Jen Moreau and her team have
03:27:14 Speaker 27: been so helpful in helping us
03:27:15 Speaker 27: understand and and making sure we
03:27:16 Speaker 27: we tread the appropriate line in
03:27:18 Speaker 27: this regard. As I've noted, the
03:27:20 Speaker 27: planners under the hybrid system would
03:27:21 Speaker 27: be county employees, so they would
03:27:22 Speaker 27: be governed by our county HR
03:27:23 Speaker 27: policies. The county planning department is
03:27:24 Speaker 27: entirely non-union, so they would slot
03:27:27 Speaker 27: into the non-union salary grid and
03:27:27 Speaker 27: have the necessary vacation entitlements and
03:27:30 Speaker 27: benefits in that regard. Jen's team
03:27:31 Speaker 27: has done great work to compare
03:27:33 Speaker 27: salaries at both municipal and county
03:27:34 Speaker 27: levels, and also the benefits. With
03:27:36 Speaker 27: respect to salaries, no planner would
03:27:38 Speaker 27: be expected to to take a
03:27:39 Speaker 27: pay cut if they were joining
03:27:41 Speaker 27: the model. Generally speaking, the salaries
03:27:42 Speaker 27: were very comparable. With respect to
03:27:43 Speaker 27: benefits, there were some slight differences.
03:27:45 Speaker 27: So maybe the county pays slightly
03:27:47 Speaker 27: more in vision, but slightly less
03:27:48 Speaker 27: in dental. But again, you know.
03:27:50 Speaker 27: we our analysis led it to
03:27:51 Speaker 27: being very, very comparable in that
03:27:53 Speaker 27: regard. One of the goals through
03:27:54 Speaker 27: this process, if it does go
03:27:56 Speaker 27: forward, is is to provide minimal
03:27:58 Speaker 27: disruption to a municipal planner's daily
03:28:00 Speaker 27: work arrangement. So we don't want
03:28:01 Speaker 27: to take someone that has currently
03:28:04 Speaker 27: a five minute commute and say,
03:28:05 Speaker 27: no, you got to commute to
03:28:07 Speaker 27: this disparate part of the county,
03:28:09 Speaker 27: and you're going to have an
03:28:10 Speaker 27: hour commute kind of thing. We
03:28:12 Speaker 27: want to work with people ideally
03:28:14 Speaker 27: where they are, if if that
03:28:15 Speaker 27: fits. And so essentially, each planner
03:28:17 Speaker 27: would be assigned sort of a
03:28:20 Speaker 27: home base location. and and so
03:28:22 Speaker 27: maybe your home base is municipality
03:28:25 Speaker 27: X and and most days you're
03:28:26 Speaker 27: you're reporting directly to municipality X's
03:28:29 Speaker 27: municipal office, but occasionally if municipality
03:28:30 Speaker 27: Y you know is is short
03:28:32 Speaker 27: you might be asked to to
03:28:35 Speaker 27: backfill in there for a day
03:28:36 Speaker 27: or two kind of thing. As
03:28:38 Speaker 27: I said, the planners would work
03:28:40 Speaker 27: both in person for those in
03:28:41 Speaker 27: person service delivery and also have
03:28:42 Speaker 27: remote locations where feasible. Other HR
03:28:43 Speaker 27: processes like performance appraisals would be
03:28:45 Speaker 27: done by the county. They would
03:28:46 Speaker 27: be county employees. but that would
03:28:47 Speaker 27: certainly be done with the input
03:28:48 Speaker 27: from municipal staff, and and and
03:28:50 Speaker 27: similarly, developing training programs again would
03:28:51 Speaker 27: would would we'd rely on input
03:28:52 Speaker 27: from municipal staff in terms of
03:28:54 Speaker 27: what they're observing at those council
03:28:55 Speaker 27: meetings and and other places in
03:28:58 Speaker 27: terms of the performance. One of
03:29:02 Speaker 27: the things that we haven't been
03:29:04 Speaker 27: able to fully investigate at this
03:29:06 Speaker 27: stage, again, because we don't know
03:29:08 Speaker 27: if any municipalities are joining or
03:29:10 Speaker 27: multiple municipalities, is is the overall
03:29:12 Speaker 27: space needs and the departmental structure.
03:29:14 Speaker 27: And so, if if only one
03:29:17 Speaker 27: municipality joining. If if only one
03:29:18 Speaker 27: municipality joins and and only one
03:29:19 Speaker 27: county or only one planner comes
03:29:21 Speaker 27: aboard, then it probably doesn't look
03:29:22 Speaker 27: a lot different. But if we
03:29:24 Speaker 27: have six municipalities join and we
03:29:26 Speaker 27: have ten new bodies, then then
03:29:27 Speaker 27: we might need to look at
03:29:30 Speaker 27: that departmental structure a little further.
03:29:32 Speaker 27: With respect to some final notes
03:29:34 Speaker 27: and and considerations, you know we
03:29:35 Speaker 27: we considered through this the different
03:29:38 Speaker 27: lenses that that a municipal planner
03:29:39 Speaker 27: versus a county planner might be
03:29:41 Speaker 27: viewing things. Municipal planners, generally speaking,
03:29:42 Speaker 27: especially if they've been at their
03:29:44 Speaker 27: municipality for for some time. Know
03:29:46 Speaker 27: their community's best. They're they're sort
03:29:47 Speaker 27: of that you know first first
03:29:50 Speaker 27: face that that the public coming
03:29:52 Speaker 27: in the door might see. They
03:29:54 Speaker 27: understand how your municipal departments might
03:29:56 Speaker 27: work. They understand your infrastructural levels,
03:29:59 Speaker 27: and and they're really ideally positioned
03:30:00 Speaker 27: for local service delivery. County planners
03:30:03 Speaker 27: can in some cases offer more
03:30:04 Speaker 27: of a regional lens. You know,
03:30:05 Speaker 27: in some cases we might be
03:30:07 Speaker 27: able to apply lessons learned in
03:30:11 Speaker 01: one municipality to another municipality, and
03:30:13 Speaker 01: and look for that consistency of
03:30:15 Speaker 01: policy interpretation between municipalities. I will
03:30:16 Speaker 01: say in general, with respect to
03:30:18 Speaker 01: the planning process, the planning process
03:30:20 Speaker 01: can only be efficient where we
03:30:23 Speaker 17: have the necessary infrastructure in place
03:30:25 Speaker 17: to support development, and where we
03:30:27 Speaker 17: have the related professional teams in
03:30:28 Speaker 17: place, and that applies both at
03:30:29 Speaker 17: the county and the municipal levels.
03:30:32 Speaker 17: And and so, you know, I'm
03:30:38 Speaker 17: sure as councilors, you get a
03:30:42 Speaker 17: lot of complaints and headaches about
03:30:43 Speaker 17: the time it takes in the
03:30:45 Speaker 17: process. Some of that, yeah, planners
03:30:46 Speaker 17: need to wear some of that,
03:30:48 Speaker 17: and we again can improve our
03:30:51 Speaker 17: processes, but another. But in other
03:30:53 Speaker 17: cases, it might be because there's
03:30:54 Speaker 17: limited servicing capacity, or it might
03:30:58 Speaker 17: be because we don't have the
03:31:01 Speaker 17: engineering staff or the engineering peer
03:31:02 Speaker 17: reviewers to to review those documents
03:31:05 Speaker 17: quickly. So I do just want
03:31:07 Speaker 17: to stress that that you know
03:31:10 Speaker 17: even if we look for efficiencies
03:31:13 Speaker 17: within your land use planners, we
03:31:14 Speaker 17: all need to be looking at
03:31:19 Speaker 17: our own processes with respect to
03:31:22 Speaker 17: all those other support staff and
03:31:24 Speaker 17: our our council and staff procedures
03:31:25 Speaker 17: in that regard. If we truly
03:31:29 Speaker 17: want to make this this whole
03:31:31 Speaker 17: you know development process more efficient
03:31:34 Speaker 17: in that regard, and and you
03:31:36 Speaker 17: know there's been a lot of
03:31:38 Speaker 17: you know negative connotations about red
03:31:40 Speaker 17: tape and everything else. And again,
03:31:41 Speaker 17: we can we can certainly stand
03:31:42 Speaker 17: to improve the system, but you
03:31:44 Speaker 17: know I think there's there's blame
03:31:46 Speaker 01: to share on some of that,
03:31:49 Speaker 01: and and perhaps it's not all
03:31:51 Speaker 01: just the planners. But this is
03:31:53 Speaker 01: a planner telling you this, so
03:31:55 Speaker 01: take that for what you will.
03:31:57 Speaker 01: As I mentioned, if we were
03:31:58 Speaker 01: to enter into the system, there
03:32:02 Speaker 01: would be hiccups as as we
03:32:03 Speaker 01: establish the system. You know I
03:32:04 Speaker 01: think things have gone fairly well
03:32:07 Speaker 01: in Chatsworth, but but you know
03:32:09 Speaker 01: we've learned and and. you know
03:32:11 Speaker 01: everything wasn't perfect from day one,
03:32:13 Speaker 27: and still not perfect. But but
03:32:14 Speaker 27: we're learning, and and so you
03:32:16 Speaker 27: know if we were to enter
03:32:18 Speaker 27: into these MOUs with some municipalities,
03:32:20 Speaker 27: we'd we'd hope that everyone would
03:32:21 Speaker 27: give it time to to establish
03:32:23 Speaker 27: itself and and and to learn
03:32:25 Speaker 27: those lessons and to go forward
03:32:27 Speaker 27: in that regard. One of the
03:32:28 Speaker 27: other things I wanted to flag
03:32:32 Speaker 27: here is is is there's a
03:32:35 Speaker 27: lot to be said about both
03:32:38 Speaker 27: change management, the team building, and
03:32:40 Speaker 27: the team dynamics. There's been a
03:32:44 Speaker 27: lot of anxiety about this topic,
03:32:47 Speaker 27: both at the county and municipal
03:32:49 Speaker 27: level. Staff in some cases are
03:32:51 Speaker 27: feeling. uncertainty about what their future
03:32:54 Speaker 27: might look like. You know who
03:32:56 Speaker 27: their employer might be, and and
03:32:58 Speaker 27: and where their location, work location
03:33:00 Speaker 27: might be, and and and what
03:33:02 Speaker 27: team they might be reporting to.
03:33:04 Speaker 27: So, if we were to to
03:33:06 Speaker 27: go forward with this model, we
03:33:07 Speaker 27: need to you know invest in
03:33:08 Speaker 27: in in making sure that people
03:33:10 Speaker 27: feel welcomed and and incorporating them
03:33:12 Speaker 27: into the team in that regard.
03:33:14 Speaker 27: With respect to you know next
03:33:16 Speaker 27: steps and timing, you know one
03:33:17 Speaker 27: of the key purposes of this
03:33:18 Speaker 27: report, you know county council is
03:33:20 Speaker 27: showing great. You know, county council
03:33:22 Speaker 27: has shown great support for for
03:33:23 Speaker 27: these discussions to date, but we
03:33:24 Speaker 27: do feel, with respect to the
03:33:27 Speaker 27: anxiety that I just mentioned, that
03:33:28 Speaker 27: we need to come to a
03:33:30 Speaker 27: decision point. When I say we,
03:33:32 Speaker 27: I mean both the county and
03:33:33 Speaker 27: and our member municipalities. You know,
03:33:35 Speaker 27: I think we owe it to
03:33:37 Speaker 27: sort of the process and the
03:33:39 Speaker 27: staff in that regard, whether it
03:33:41 Speaker 27: be to proceed with a hybrid
03:33:44 Speaker 27: model or whether we said, no,
03:33:45 Speaker 27: this isn't really what we thought,
03:33:48 Speaker 27: and and we're walking away from
03:33:49 Speaker 27: this hybrid model. We do need
03:33:51 Speaker 27: to work towards that decision. So
03:33:53 Speaker 27: the recommendation here today is is
03:33:55 Speaker 27: that that county council support the.
03:33:56 Speaker 27: the the resolution, but through that
03:33:58 Speaker 27: we send the draft memo you
03:34:00 Speaker 27: and the draft financials out to
03:34:01 Speaker 27: each of your seven municipalities that
03:34:03 Speaker 27: had had voiced in principle support,
03:34:04 Speaker 27: and then presumably you would have
03:34:06 Speaker 27: those reports come to your municipal
03:34:08 Speaker 27: council tables, and you could make
03:34:09 Speaker 27: an informed decision to say sort
03:34:12 Speaker 27: of yay or nay. And if
03:34:13 Speaker 27: any of you do say yay,
03:34:15 Speaker 27: that's when we would we would
03:34:17 Speaker 27: you know collectively work together to
03:34:19 Speaker 27: to hammer out that memorandum of
03:34:21 Speaker 27: understanding in that regard, and and
03:34:23 Speaker 27: and look to. finalize the matter
03:34:25 Speaker 27: as per the the motion that
03:34:27 Speaker 27: the the warden read out. You
03:34:28 Speaker 27: know, other than Chatsworth, who already
03:34:30 Speaker 27: purchased these services, we're not thinking
03:34:32 Speaker 27: any of this could be done
03:34:37 Speaker 27: before January first, 2027. And in
03:34:39 Speaker 27: some cases, it might even be
03:34:41 Speaker 27: a later transition date. But we're
03:34:42 Speaker 27: really hoping that that this decision
03:34:46 Speaker 27: can be made at both the
03:34:48 Speaker 27: county and local levels, ideally this
03:34:50 Speaker 27: year, and and we can all
03:34:52 Speaker 27: work forward with with knowing where
03:34:55 Speaker 27: we're heading, and and that can
03:34:56 Speaker 27: inform our our municipal and and
03:34:57 Speaker 24: county budgets for 2027 in that
03:35:01 Speaker 24: regard. 427. In that regard, so
03:35:02 Speaker 24: the warden read out the recommendation.
03:35:04 Speaker 24: I won't repeat that, but I
03:35:06 Speaker 24: said a lot here. But I'm
03:35:07 Speaker 24: certainly happy to take any questions
03:35:09 Speaker 24: or any feedback, and and look
03:35:11 Speaker 24: forward to a good discussion. Okay,
03:35:13 Speaker 24: thank you very much, Director Taylor.
03:35:15 Speaker 24: You have probably answered 99 of
03:35:16 Speaker 24: the questions that might have been
03:35:18 Speaker 24: in there with the information you
03:35:20 Speaker 24: provided. But let me open it
03:35:22 Speaker 24: up to the deputy warden. Thank
03:35:24 Speaker 24: you, Madam Warden, and like Scott,
03:35:28 Speaker 24: I want to remain happily. married.
03:35:30 Speaker 24: So, if you're watching, honey, I'm
03:35:32 Speaker 24: going to stick with the current
03:35:34 Speaker 24: model that I have. Just thought
03:35:36 Speaker 24: I'd mention that. So, nope, not
03:35:37 Speaker 24: going there. In terms of a
03:35:40 Speaker 24: question, I remember back when we
03:35:41 Speaker 24: first started talking about this, and
03:35:44 Speaker 24: one of the things that we
03:35:46 Speaker 24: talked about, or was presented to
03:35:49 Speaker 24: council, was the number of planners
03:35:53 Speaker 24: per resident in Gray County as
03:35:57 Speaker 24: a whole compared to some of
03:35:59 Speaker 24: our comparators. that have single-level planning,
03:36:00 Speaker 24: and our numbers were dramatically higher.
03:36:01 Speaker 24: And I'm not seeing a lot
03:36:03 Speaker 24: in your report to speak to
03:36:04 Speaker 24: that particular issue because I think
03:36:07 Speaker 24: that particular issue is causing some
03:36:09 Speaker 24: angst amongst some planning staff. And
03:36:10 Speaker 24: I asked that question because if
03:36:12 Speaker 24: we're not willing or anticipating dealing
03:36:14 Speaker 24: with that particular issue, it leaves
03:36:16 Speaker 24: the question of what's the point.
03:36:18 Speaker 24: Because if we're not going to
03:36:19 Speaker 24: reduce the number of planners, why
03:36:22 Speaker 24: are we here? So I guess
03:36:24 Speaker 24: that's my question: is what discussion
03:36:25 Speaker 24: has taken place on that particular
03:36:27 Speaker 24: issue? Thank you. Okay, just before
03:36:29 Speaker 24: I pass it back to Director
03:36:30 Speaker 24: Taylor, we will have to be
03:36:32 Speaker 24: careful if we enter into anything
03:36:37 Speaker 24: that really should be discussed and
03:36:42 Speaker 27: closed in terms of personnel reductions,
03:36:44 Speaker 27: etc. So, you, Director Taylor, you
03:36:45 Speaker 27: have given a general overview. So
03:36:47 Speaker 27: if you want to. Views. So,
03:36:48 Speaker 27: if you want to respond in
03:36:52 Speaker 27: in context as you are able,
03:36:54 Speaker 27: and I I will look to
03:36:55 Speaker 27: if we get to a flagged
03:36:57 Speaker 27: moment. Thank you. Thank you, Madam
03:36:58 Speaker 27: Warden. I'll keep my head turned
03:37:00 Speaker 27: to our Director of HR too,
03:37:02 Speaker 27: in case I stray into dangerous
03:37:03 Speaker 27: territory. I'll I'll I'll answer that
03:37:04 Speaker 27: question. Thank you for your question,
03:37:06 Speaker 27: Councillor Milne. With respect to to
03:37:09 Speaker 27: sort of the broad level, I'm
03:37:10 Speaker 27: not speaking to any one municipality,
03:37:12 Speaker 27: and and and keep this extra
03:37:13 Speaker 27: broad in that regard. And and
03:37:15 Speaker 27: so so Councillor Milne is right.
03:37:16 Speaker 27: There was there was a. Is
03:37:17 Speaker 27: right. There was a chart in
03:37:19 Speaker 27: one of those early reports that
03:37:20 Speaker 27: compared, you know, Gray County to
03:37:22 Speaker 27: other counties in that regard. Sort
03:37:23 Speaker 27: of one of the tenants here
03:37:25 Speaker 27: has been that we weren't necessarily
03:37:26 Speaker 27: looking for staff cuts through this
03:37:28 Speaker 27: process, but we were looking for
03:37:33 Speaker 27: greater efficiency. And so, if we
03:37:36 Speaker 27: have less bodies reviewing an individual
03:37:38 Speaker 27: development application, perhaps some of those
03:37:41 Speaker 27: bodies that aren't needed to review
03:37:42 Speaker 27: the That aren't needed to review
03:37:44 Speaker 27: development applications can be focused on
03:37:47 Speaker 27: those more strategic projects that assist
03:37:48 Speaker 27: your municipalities. One of the thoughts
03:37:50 Speaker 27: was for those municipalities that use
03:37:51 Speaker 27: consulting services that if you were
03:37:53 Speaker 27: able to retain that knowledge in
03:37:55 Speaker 27: house, then then that would be
03:37:56 Speaker 27: beneficial in that regard. But you
03:37:57 Speaker 27: know, at least at a county
03:38:01 Speaker 27: staff level, you know, although we
03:38:02 Speaker 27: did flag that that you know
03:38:04 Speaker 27: level of planners across the province
03:38:06 Speaker 27: or across the county, sorry, it
03:38:08 Speaker 27: wasn't necessarily about about you know
03:38:09 Speaker 27: looking for cuts and and the
03:38:12 Speaker 27: MOU would frame. it as, you
03:38:14 Speaker 27: know, we need to review our
03:38:15 Speaker 27: staffing levels every couple years anyway,
03:38:18 Speaker 27: just to make sure we're appropriate.
03:38:23 Speaker 27: And you know, if we have
03:38:25 Speaker 24: a major downturn in the economy
03:38:26 Speaker 24: or things change, you know, maybe
03:38:28 Speaker 24: we could be overstaffed. But the
03:38:29 Speaker 24: hope was that, you know, every
03:38:31 Speaker 24: municipality in the county sort of
03:38:37 Speaker 24: has this to-do list that we
03:38:40 Speaker 24: haven't been able to get to
03:38:41 Speaker 24: because we spend so much of
03:38:44 Speaker 24: our time processing and in some
03:38:46 Speaker 24: cases reacting to development applications. And
03:38:48 Speaker 24: so, can we have more ability
03:38:50 Speaker 24: if we pool our our talent
03:38:51 Speaker 24: to to get to some of
03:38:54 Speaker 24: those more strategic projects and things
03:38:55 Speaker 24: that might also make the development
03:38:58 Speaker 24: process more efficient. With respect to
03:38:59 Speaker 24: a local example, I'll also share
03:39:03 Speaker 24: that you know we have municipalities
03:39:04 Speaker 24: right now that are reviewing zoning
03:39:06 Speaker 24: bylaws, and you know one of
03:39:08 Speaker 24: the questions when you review a
03:39:09 Speaker 24: zoning bylaw is what needs to
03:39:11 Speaker 24: be a future zoning amendment, and
03:39:14 Speaker 24: what are we seeing time after
03:39:20 Speaker 24: time after time that we're we're
03:39:21 Speaker 24: proving through a zoning amendment every
03:39:22 Speaker 24: time. And so you know if
03:39:25 Speaker 24: you make changes to streamline streamline
03:39:27 Speaker 27: your zoning bylaw. Then, yeah, you
03:39:28 Speaker 27: might need less bench strength at
03:39:29 Speaker 27: the the planning application level. So
03:39:30 Speaker 27: those would all factor into it.
03:39:31 Speaker 27: But I guess my long-winded answer
03:39:33 Speaker 27: is, you know, day one, it
03:39:35 Speaker 27: wouldn't necessarily be looking for cuts
03:39:38 Speaker 27: in that regard. But we would
03:39:40 Speaker 27: review those staffing levels on a
03:39:41 Speaker 27: go-forward if this model does even
03:39:43 Speaker 27: go forward. Follow up, just real
03:39:45 Speaker 27: quickly. I want to clarify that
03:39:46 Speaker 27: I wasn't advocating for staff cuts.
03:39:48 Speaker 27: I like your thinking, and I
03:39:49 Speaker 27: appreciate your answer. Thank you. Okay,
03:39:50 Speaker 27: thank you very much. We'll go
03:39:52 Speaker 27: to Councillor McQueen. Thank you, Madam
03:39:53 Speaker 27: Warden. Since we started this process,
03:39:56 Speaker 27: all our staff left. So we
03:39:58 Speaker 27: have a contract person, and we're
03:39:59 Speaker 27: looking for some more people. But
03:40:01 Speaker 27: a couple things. Since COVID, I
03:40:03 Speaker 27: know with Three Highlands, we've done
03:40:05 Speaker 27: a lot more on Zoom instead
03:40:07 Speaker 27: of in person. I don't know
03:40:08 Speaker 27: what everybody else is doing there.
03:40:10 Speaker 27: I mean, that has saved mileage
03:40:13 Speaker 27: and people being in place. But
03:40:14 Speaker 27: then we've got some. pushback where
03:40:15 Speaker 27: certain public meetings they wanted to
03:40:17 Speaker 27: have the ability to be in
03:40:18 Speaker 27: person. So that's something to park
03:40:19 Speaker 27: there. But certainly, with our committee
03:40:22 Speaker 27: adjustment meetings, we've done them all
03:40:23 Speaker 27: by Zoom as well. So a
03:40:25 Speaker 27: question I have. Okay, so there's
03:40:27 Speaker 27: two hats. There's the municipality's hat.
03:40:29 Speaker 27: There's the county hat. So you
03:40:30 Speaker 27: make an application for a zoning
03:40:32 Speaker 27: amendment for the local level. No,
03:40:36 Speaker 27: I'm going to use official plan
03:40:41 Speaker 27: amendment. Make an application for an
03:40:45 Speaker 27: official plan amendment at the local
03:40:50 Speaker 05: level, then you make an an
03:40:52 Speaker 05: application for an official plan amendment
03:40:55 Speaker 05: at the upper level. Obviously, there's
03:41:00 Speaker 05: going to be some equal work
03:41:03 Speaker 05: because you're you're if you're reviewing
03:41:06 Speaker 05: the official plan review for the
03:41:11 Speaker 05: local level, and then you then
03:41:13 Speaker 05: you're at the county, and then
03:41:17 Speaker 05: you're doing yours. And it there's
03:41:20 Speaker 05: going to be some, I would
03:41:22 Speaker 05: say, some savings in time of
03:41:26 Speaker 05: knowledge because you're not going to.
03:41:28 Speaker 05: it's not two individuals. It's going
03:41:31 Speaker 05: to be one individual. Can some
03:41:34 Speaker 05: of that savings be transferred back
03:41:36 Speaker 05: down somehow to the bigger system
03:41:40 Speaker 05: of the hybrid, where maybe we
03:41:41 Speaker 05: charge less, the county charges less,
03:41:46 Speaker 05: but overall, it's a savings. But
03:41:51 Speaker 05: the time still being, you know,
03:41:53 Speaker 05: the time is being because it's
03:41:55 Speaker 05: the same person reviewing both. Is
03:41:59 Speaker 05: there some way of getting somewhere
03:42:01 Speaker 05: where we do save money on
03:42:03 Speaker 05: that purpose, or that like there's
03:42:05 Speaker 05: one body doing both? Right. I
03:42:08 Speaker 05: got. Right. I get through you,
03:42:10 Speaker 05: Madam Warden. Thank you for your
03:42:14 Speaker 05: question, Councillor McQueen. Just to respond
03:42:16 Speaker 05: to your first comment, we wanted
03:42:20 Speaker 05: to remain nimble in this regard
03:42:22 Speaker 05: with respect to those in-person versus
03:42:24 Speaker 05: versus remote service delivery. We know
03:42:27 Speaker 05: that every municipality does a little
03:42:29 Speaker 05: different. Some really want that front
03:42:32 Speaker 05: counter person, or some really want
03:42:34 Speaker 05: that in-person public meeting or in-person
03:42:39 Speaker 05: council meeting. Others are much more
03:42:42 Speaker 05: open to remote. So you know,
03:42:44 Speaker 05: we'd really, if if this model
03:42:46 Speaker 05: does go forward, take our direction
03:42:48 Speaker 05: from from your. own municipal staff
03:42:50 Speaker 05: and and municipal councils in that
03:42:53 Speaker 05: regard. With your with respect to
03:42:56 Speaker 05: your question about time savings, it's
03:42:58 Speaker 05: it's sort of similar to to
03:43:01 Speaker 05: Councillor Milne's question in that regard.
03:43:02 Speaker 05: We would hope to be able
03:43:05 Speaker 05: to save time on processing processing
03:43:06 Speaker 05: some of those applications because, as
03:43:10 Speaker 05: you said, you could have the
03:43:13 Speaker 05: one the one staff member reviewing
03:43:16 Speaker 05: it, you know, with with Whuppa
03:43:19 Speaker 05: County and municipal set of eyes
03:43:23 Speaker 05: on it. And and the hope
03:43:24 Speaker 05: is that some of those savings,
03:43:27 Speaker 05: if you will, would would be
03:43:31 Speaker 05: reinvested into into other strategic projects.
03:43:33 Speaker 05: It may or may. not necessarily
03:43:35 Speaker 05: translate to you know savings in
03:43:38 Speaker 05: the application fees. You know, every
03:43:40 Speaker 05: municipality has a little bit different
03:43:41 Speaker 05: philosophy in terms of what they're
03:43:44 Speaker 05: looking to recoup through application fees.
03:43:48 Speaker 05: Some have said we want to
03:43:50 Speaker 30: recoup fifty percent of our our
03:43:52 Speaker 30: planning costs. Others have a higher
03:43:54 Speaker 30: threshold or a lower threshold. So
03:43:58 Speaker 30: you know, those those planning fee
03:44:00 Speaker 30: thresholds would still largely be at
03:44:02 Speaker 30: the municipal level, other than our
03:44:04 Speaker 30: own county fees. But at a
03:44:05 Speaker 30: minimum, the hope would be that
03:44:07 Speaker 30: we streamline those processes. and and
03:44:10 Speaker 30: and have a little bit more
03:44:12 Speaker 30: staff time for those those strategic
03:44:14 Speaker 30: processes. But again, we take our
03:44:16 Speaker 30: direction from council. If if council
03:44:18 Speaker 30: wanted to see application revenues cut,
03:44:21 Speaker 30: but the worry there is that
03:44:23 Speaker 30: if we cut application revenues, then
03:44:25 Speaker 30: then then there might need to
03:44:27 Speaker 30: be more levy increases. Follow up.
03:44:29 Speaker 30: Thank you. It probably would take
03:44:31 Speaker 30: time to figure where that sweet
03:44:33 Speaker 30: spot is. No doubt. I guess
03:44:35 Speaker 30: the other thing that I raised
03:44:37 Speaker 30: through the start of this process
03:44:38 Speaker 30: was. having hybrid documentation. Would be
03:44:46 Speaker 30: if this hybrid becomes successful, would
03:44:48 Speaker 30: we go to like a one
03:44:51 Speaker 30: service, one model? Maybe even more
03:44:52 Speaker 30: streamlining in some of our documentation,
03:44:54 Speaker 05: you know, down the road. That
03:44:55 Speaker 05: I think, you know, Bruce County
03:45:01 Speaker 05: has the planning at the county
03:45:02 Speaker 05: level, right? I don't know if
03:45:05 Speaker 05: that's that this is where it
03:45:06 Speaker 05: could be, but I just wonder
03:45:08 Speaker 02: if if if you know, from
03:45:09 Speaker 02: the sense of one service, one
03:45:14 Speaker 02: customer, eventually will we get to
03:45:15 Speaker 02: that part? Maybe with the exception
03:45:16 Speaker 02: of Yellowstone and and the mountains,
03:45:18 Speaker 02: but we get to a part
03:45:20 Speaker 02: where we have good service for
03:45:22 Speaker 02: the customer. There's cost savings overall,
03:45:25 Speaker 02: and it's it's moving toward maybe
03:45:28 Speaker 02: similar documentation through your metamorph. If
03:45:29 Speaker 02: I could, yeah, that's that's sort
03:45:33 Speaker 02: of not necessarily to get to
03:45:35 Speaker 02: to one service, but to
03:45:39 Speaker 02: to to look for efficiencies and
03:45:42 Speaker 02: standardization in that regard. And you
03:45:44 Speaker 02: know, if you think back to
03:45:45 Speaker 02: the report that we brought to
03:45:46 Speaker 02: council on Bill 98 and the
03:45:53 Speaker 02: province is looking at standardizing official
03:45:57 Speaker 02: plans. And again, if if we're
03:45:59 Speaker 02: all working within sort of one
03:46:01 Speaker 02: department, then are there opportunities to
03:46:02 Speaker 02: look at those municipal official plans
03:46:04 Speaker 02: and county official plans to to
03:46:07 Speaker 02: limit those chances where somebody could
03:46:10 Speaker 02: have to apply for an amendment
03:46:11 Speaker 02: to bill? And so, you know,
03:46:13 Speaker 02: maybe the county plan does a
03:46:15 Speaker 02: really good job of your rural
03:46:17 Speaker 02: agricultural areas, and your municipal plan
03:46:19 Speaker 02: is more focused on on your
03:46:20 Speaker 02: growth areas, so your settlement areas,
03:46:22 Speaker 02: and and therefore we're we're limiting
03:46:24 Speaker 02: Therefore, we're limiting any duplication there
03:46:26 Speaker 02: too, and that's not to say
03:46:30 Speaker 02: that we can't pursue that without
03:46:31 Speaker 02: a hybrid model. But we think
03:46:33 Speaker 02: that there's there might be greater
03:46:36 Speaker 02: likelihood with respect to like a
03:46:38 Speaker 02: centralized service, sort of that Bruce
03:46:39 Speaker 02: County model was was what
03:46:40 Speaker 02: the original investigation was looking at
03:46:45 Speaker 02: in that regard. What what the
03:46:48 Speaker 02: hybrid model would be would be
03:46:51 Speaker 02: more of the Wellington model, where
03:46:53 Speaker 02: some of the municipalities have services
03:46:55 Speaker 02: provided by the county and some
03:46:57 Speaker 02: have their own planners on staff.
03:47:01 Speaker 02: But regardless, you know, even if
03:47:03 Speaker 02: there's some municipalities that aren't participating
03:47:05 Speaker 02: in the system, you know. we're
03:47:07 Speaker 02: still all talking regularly. We're still
03:47:10 Speaker 02: all sharing information regularly, and and
03:47:12 Speaker 02: we're still all looking to provide
03:47:13 Speaker 02: you know the best service for
03:47:15 Speaker 02: for citizens and and developers in
03:47:19 Speaker 02: in Gray County. Okay, we'll go
03:47:21 Speaker 02: to Councillor Dobrin. Thank you, Gordon,
03:47:22 Speaker 02: and thank you, Scott. I think
03:47:24 Speaker 02: we may have more planners in
03:47:30 Speaker 02: Gray County because development. is occurring
03:47:32 Speaker 02: in Gray County, growth is being
03:47:34 Speaker 02: directed to our our area, and
03:47:36 Speaker 13: certainly our farming community is creating
03:47:38 Speaker 13: some of that development. So, I
03:47:39 Speaker 13: I my my comment more than
03:47:41 Speaker 13: a question on this aspect is
03:47:44 Speaker 13: that when you were speaking about
03:47:46 Speaker 13: if a municipality currently has a
03:47:49 Speaker 13: vacancy in the planning department. or
03:47:51 Speaker 13: one becomes vacant, that we would
03:47:56 Speaker 13: immediately in your report immediately set
03:47:58 Speaker 13: to hire that that planner. But
03:48:00 Speaker 13: development fluctuates from time to time,
03:48:03 Speaker 13: and I think this model lends
03:48:05 Speaker 13: itself to if development drops off
03:48:07 Speaker 13: in a lower tier in one
03:48:10 Speaker 13: area. Rather than eliminating the planner,
03:48:12 Speaker 13: they could be absorbed into. an
03:48:15 Speaker 13: area that development is increasing, so
03:48:17 Speaker 13: it provides a little bit more
03:48:19 Speaker 13: flexibility and stability for the planners
03:48:21 Speaker 13: that we currently have, and they
03:48:23 Speaker 13: could still continue to work out
03:48:26 Speaker 13: of the lower tier, however that
03:48:30 Speaker 13: works. One of my one of
03:48:32 Speaker 13: my comments is is I think
03:48:35 Speaker 13: this is valuable and worth worthy
03:48:38 Speaker 13: of exploration because if we don't
03:48:40 Speaker 13: explore it, the province may decide.
03:48:41 Speaker 13: for us, and we may not
03:48:43 Speaker 13: have a choice on what that
03:48:44 Speaker 13: model looks like. I really do
03:48:46 Speaker 13: appreciate all of the work that
03:48:48 Speaker 13: that your department, as well as
03:48:50 Speaker 13: our lower tiers, have put into
03:48:52 Speaker 13: this exercise, because it there's there's
03:48:54 Speaker 13: opportunity here. I guess I have
03:48:57 Speaker 13: one question, and this probably would
03:48:59 Speaker 13: be something that would be explored
03:49:02 Speaker 13: in the event. we get to
03:49:03 Speaker 13: the point of developing the MOU
03:49:05 Speaker 13: and we proceed with the joint
03:49:07 Speaker 13: services, with regard to your comment
03:49:09 Speaker 13: in here about mileage, where someone
03:49:11 Speaker 13: is located and if they are
03:49:15 Speaker 13: traveling to the lower tier in
03:49:16 Speaker 13: the south end, their mileage isn't
03:49:17 Speaker 13: paid to the office. But that
03:49:19 Speaker 13: if they were temporarily assigned or
03:49:21 Speaker 13: relocated to another, well, temporarily relocated
03:49:23 Speaker 13: to another municipality or county, that
03:49:24 Speaker 13: their mileage would be compensated. Would
03:49:26 Speaker 13: would that in in my experience
03:49:28 Speaker 13: that is from the home not
03:49:30 Speaker 13: from the home but from the
03:49:31 Speaker 13: core office. So if you travel
03:49:33 Speaker 13: to if your normal travel is
03:49:40 Speaker 13: to municipality A but you're assigned
03:49:41 Speaker 27: to municipality C, would the mileage
03:49:43 Speaker 27: be from the municipality to the
03:49:45 Speaker 27: municipality? And I'm not sure that
03:49:46 Speaker 27: we need an answer today, but
03:49:49 Speaker 27: maybe you've already thought of that.
03:49:50 Speaker 27: Director. Through you, Madam Warden, the
03:49:51 Speaker 27: way that our mileage policy works
03:49:52 Speaker 27: is it's based on a home
03:49:54 Speaker 27: base. So, for instance, I commute
03:49:55 Speaker 27: from Miford into the administration building,
03:49:57 Speaker 27: and the administration is my home
03:49:59 Speaker 27: base. If there was a day
03:50:00 Speaker 27: that I was commuting to Gray
03:50:01 Speaker 27: Gables or Rockwood Terrace, we would
03:50:03 Speaker 27: take my normal commute, subtract it
03:50:04 Speaker 27: from the home base of where
03:50:06 Speaker 27: I was going to. So. say
03:50:08 Speaker 27: I'm 23 kilometers to Grey County
03:50:10 Speaker 27: Administration, and I'm 40 kilometers to
03:50:11 Speaker 27: Grey Gables. We would take that
03:50:12 Speaker 27: 40 kilometers minus 23, and that
03:50:16 Speaker 27: would be the mileage that is
03:50:18 Speaker 27: paid. But everybody would have an
03:50:19 Speaker 27: established home base, wherever that might
03:50:23 Speaker 03: be. It might be the administration
03:50:25 Speaker 03: building, or it might be Meaford,
03:50:26 Speaker 03: or it might be Georgian Bluffs
03:50:27 Speaker 03: per se. And then we would
03:50:29 Speaker 03: calculate from there. That is how
03:50:31 Speaker 03: our policy works. Paula, so that
03:50:32 Speaker 03: confirms my suspicion that it's the
03:50:35 Speaker 03: lesser of the distance. If it's
03:50:38 Speaker 03: closer for you to go to
03:50:39 Speaker 03: Gray Gables from home, that's the
03:50:41 Speaker 03: travel that you would take. So,
03:50:43 Speaker 03: thank you for clarifying that policy.
03:50:45 Speaker 03: Okay, we'll go to Councillor Greg
03:50:48 Speaker 03: and then to Councillor Mackey. I
03:50:49 Speaker 03: just want to thank staff for
03:50:51 Speaker 03: the tremendous amount of work that
03:50:53 Speaker 03: went into this in the last
03:50:54 Speaker 03: couple of years. this is the
03:51:00 Speaker 27: type of item where I'm sitting
03:51:01 Speaker 27: here and I'm just thinking you
03:51:02 Speaker 27: have to look from a ten
03:51:04 Speaker 27: thousand foot elevation, look down at
03:51:05 Speaker 27: what we're doing, and I think
03:51:07 Speaker 27: to the councillor Milne's point, no,
03:51:07 Speaker 27: we're just doing our job. We
03:51:09 Speaker 27: looked at, we saw those numbers
03:51:10 Speaker 27: on a per capita basis, and
03:51:12 Speaker 27: it's defensible because it's our job
03:51:14 Speaker 27: here to look for alternatives, efficiencies,
03:51:15 Speaker 27: initiatives. that improve how we're doing
03:51:17 Speaker 27: business as a county, and I
03:51:19 Speaker 27: think this is just a strategic,
03:51:21 Speaker 27: or I hope we just apply
03:51:23 Speaker 27: a strategic decision-making process here, and
03:51:25 Speaker 27: and and remove the protectionism that
03:51:27 Speaker 27: can easily come about from representing
03:51:29 Speaker 27: the lower tier, because that's not
03:51:31 Speaker 27: what I hope that this decision
03:51:32 Speaker 27: will be predicated on. I hope
03:51:35 Speaker 27: that this is something that we're
03:51:36 Speaker 27: looking way up. top down. What's
03:51:37 Speaker 27: the best long term vision in
03:51:39 Speaker 27: terms of how we're currently doing
03:51:41 Speaker 27: business? Let's not just be stuck
03:51:45 Speaker 27: in. This is the way it's
03:51:48 Speaker 27: always been. Rather, let's look for
03:51:49 Speaker 08: opportunities. And I just think even
03:51:51 Speaker 08: the lot the speed of change,
03:51:52 Speaker 08: which we've asked the provincial government
03:51:54 Speaker 08: to slow down on the speed
03:51:57 Speaker 08: of change in policy direction. That
03:51:58 Speaker 08: that's an item right there that
03:52:00 Speaker 08: jumps out at me. County staff
03:52:02 Speaker 08: are reporting continuously to county council.
03:52:04 Speaker 08: and we're getting it continuously at
03:52:06 Speaker 08: lower tiers, and we're getting it
03:52:08 Speaker 08: at our conservation authorities when they're
03:52:12 Speaker 08: making changes. That continuum of just
03:52:14 Speaker 08: bureaucratic response is something that I
03:52:15 Speaker 08: see as an opportunity to identify
03:52:16 Speaker 08: efficiencies. When you're talking about this,
03:52:19 Speaker 08: goes beyond just the OPAs and
03:52:21 Speaker 08: zoning bylaws, but so much of
03:52:23 Speaker 08: this is just administrative bureaucracy and
03:52:25 Speaker 08: reporting back up on changes from
03:52:27 Speaker 08: other levels of government. that consumes
03:52:28 Speaker 08: a lot of resources, so I
03:52:30 Speaker 08: just want to no questions. Thanks,
03:52:34 Speaker 08: staff, for the amount of work
03:52:36 Speaker 08: that you've put forward getting to
03:52:37 Speaker 08: this point today, and and hopefully
03:52:39 Speaker 08: that our decisions our are determined
03:52:41 Speaker 08: by looking from a very high
03:52:44 Speaker 08: altitude down at at what's best
03:52:45 Speaker 08: for the county, and not just
03:52:46 Speaker 08: too much protectionism. Hey, thank you,
03:52:47 Speaker 08: Kelsstromaki. Thank you, Madam Warden, and
03:52:54 Speaker 08: also Stride. Also, just wanted to
03:52:57 Speaker 08: thank you and your team. As
03:52:59 Speaker 06: you had indicated in your report,
03:53:01 Speaker 06: we have been—I don't want to
03:53:02 Speaker 06: say guinea pig, but we have
03:53:05 Speaker 06: been the recipient recipients of your
03:53:07 Speaker 06: services for the last year, a
03:53:10 Speaker 06: year and a half. And you
03:53:11 Speaker 06: provide us with consistent planning staff
03:53:13 Speaker 06: the entire time. We've had Derek
03:53:14 Speaker 06: McMurty and Becky Hillier have been
03:53:16 Speaker 06: the two planners, and they have
03:53:23 Speaker 06: not missed a meeting. Becky has
03:53:24 Speaker 27: been there when anything was contentious
03:53:25 Speaker 27: as the senior planner, just because
03:53:27 Speaker 27: of her more in-depth knowledge base.
03:53:29 Speaker 27: And I'm sure Derek has appreciated
03:53:30 Speaker 27: that, and and we have certainly
03:53:32 Speaker 27: appreciated that. So, I really have
03:53:33 Speaker 27: no negatives, as you indicated. It's
03:53:34 Speaker 27: been a learning experience, and some
03:53:36 Speaker 27: of the processes we're streamlining those
03:53:39 Speaker 27: as we go. And I hope
03:53:42 Speaker 27: to continue on personally with utilizing
03:53:44 Speaker 27: the system because. you know
03:53:46 Speaker 27: having as a smaller municipality and
03:53:48 Speaker 27: having a contract staff you know
03:53:50 Speaker 27: our our contractor was very knowledgeable
03:53:51 Speaker 27: and worked well for us for
03:53:53 Speaker 27: a lot of years but you
03:53:55 Speaker 27: know moving forward it was going
03:53:56 Speaker 27: to be very difficult I think
03:53:58 Speaker 27: to have a consistent planner when
03:54:04 Speaker 27: you only need him on part
03:54:06 Speaker 27: or her on a part time
03:54:09 Speaker 27: basis so this you know we've
03:54:11 Speaker 27: we've had that consistency and I
03:54:13 Speaker 01: look forward to the memorandums and.
03:54:14 Speaker 01: I hope other smaller municipalities that
03:54:16 Speaker 01: are in a similar situation have
03:54:19 Speaker 01: a real good look at this
03:54:20 Speaker 01: because I think it has merit
03:54:21 Speaker 01: for a lot of us. The
03:54:22 Speaker 01: only question I would have, and
03:54:25 Speaker 01: Scott, you indicated about each municipality
03:54:28 Speaker 01: being able to, you know, as
03:54:31 Speaker 01: far as having a planner in
03:54:32 Speaker 01: the office for a certain number
03:54:39 Speaker 01: of hours, and that may vary
03:54:41 Speaker 22: based on your proximity, but you
03:54:42 Speaker 22: know, we're not very far away
03:54:44 Speaker 22: from Wood Sound, so would there
03:54:45 Speaker 22: be an opportunity, you know, to
03:54:47 Speaker 22: have those hours where residents could
03:54:49 Speaker 22: come to the county building here
03:54:53 Speaker 22: and meet with the planning staff
03:54:55 Speaker 22: on behalf of their application for
03:54:57 Speaker 22: our municipality. Thank you. Yeah, through
03:54:59 Speaker 22: you, Madam Warden. Thanks for your
03:55:01 Speaker 22: your kind comments, Councilor Mackey. And
03:55:03 Speaker 22: yeah, I I would think that's
03:55:05 Speaker 22: entirely appropriate. And we we do
03:55:06 Speaker 22: already have people drop by saying,
03:55:08 Speaker 22: "Hey, I'm from Chatsworth and I
03:55:11 Speaker 22: want to talk to Eric and
03:55:15 Speaker 27: everything else." So you know, we
03:55:17 Speaker 27: always encourage people to to schedule
03:55:17 Speaker 27: when they can, just because. you
03:55:19 Speaker 27: know we don't want someone to
03:55:20 Speaker 27: drive from Walters Falls and and
03:55:24 Speaker 27: find out that staffer in a
03:55:25 Speaker 27: meeting or something. But certainly that's
03:55:28 Speaker 27: something we could we could talk
03:55:30 Speaker 27: further about, and I see that
03:55:32 Speaker 27: as entirely appropriate. You know, we're
03:55:35 Speaker 27: we're a public facing department. We're
03:55:36 Speaker 27: here to to offer good customer
03:55:37 Speaker 27: service, whether that's in the township
03:55:39 Speaker 27: office or in the county office.
03:55:41 Speaker 27: We should be offering that service.
03:55:44 Speaker 27: Okay, thank you. Okay, we've got
03:55:46 Speaker 27: two more hands over on this
03:55:47 Speaker 27: side, so we'll begin with Councillor
03:55:50 Speaker 27: Keibney, then Councillor Body. Thank you,
03:55:51 Speaker 06: Madam. Warden. I don't know the
03:55:55 Speaker 06: situation in all of the lower
03:55:57 Speaker 06: tiers, but I know in Mefford,
03:55:59 Speaker 06: you know, we're short-staffed in planning.
03:56:00 Speaker 06: So I'm just curious to know,
03:56:04 Speaker 01: Scott, should some of us agree
03:56:05 Speaker 01: to this hybrid model? And just
03:56:08 Speaker 01: for you know, example's sake, if
03:56:10 Speaker 01: some of us came to you
03:56:12 Speaker 01: that were short-staffed, does the county
03:56:14 Speaker 01: have the ability to quickly recruit?
03:56:15 Speaker 01: Have you had good success in
03:56:17 Speaker 01: recruiting planning staff when needed, or
03:56:19 Speaker 01: do you think there would be
03:56:21 Speaker 01: an interim need to contract out
03:56:24 Speaker 01: services to? Act out services to
03:56:28 Speaker 01: cover that gap, or how do
03:56:30 Speaker 01: you think that might work? Thank
03:56:31 Speaker 01: you for your question, Councillor Kibinyi.
03:56:32 Speaker 01: I will say, and I'm going
03:56:36 Speaker 01: to knock heavily on wood when
03:56:39 Speaker 01: when I say this, we haven't
03:56:42 Speaker 01: had to recruit for a for
03:56:43 Speaker 01: a few years. We've been lucky
03:56:46 Speaker 01: that we've had some really good
03:56:47 Speaker 01: staff, and we've been able to
03:56:49 Speaker 01: retain staff for a while. You
03:56:50 Speaker 01: know, I'd say if Miss Pallady
03:56:51 Speaker 01: came to us short-staffed, then then
04:01:54 Speaker 29: we would need to look for
04:01:55 Speaker 01: resources in that regard. The hope
04:01:56 Speaker 01: was that in that recruitment effort,
04:02:15 Speaker 10: by offering you know, the ability
04:02:16 Speaker 01: to join maybe a slightly larger
04:02:18 Speaker 01: team, then that that there might
04:02:20 Speaker 01: be more opportunity. But but we
04:02:21 Speaker 01: don't have any silver bullets there
04:02:24 Speaker 01: either. So you know, I I
04:02:26 Speaker 01: can't stand before you and promise
04:02:29 Speaker 01: to say, you know, where where
04:02:31 Speaker 01: municipal recruitment has been challenging, the
04:02:32 Speaker 01: county would have an easy role
04:02:34 Speaker 01: of it. But we would
04:02:36 Speaker 01: certainly work together to to fill
04:02:38 Speaker 01: those needs if that opportunity presents
04:02:40 Speaker 01: itself. And we'll just go to
04:02:42 Speaker 01: the CAO. Through you, Warden, and
04:02:45 Speaker 01: just. to further to build on
04:02:50 Speaker 01: what Scott's comments were, I think
04:02:54 Speaker 01: I think by also having a
04:02:56 Speaker 01: larger pool of potential planners as
04:02:59 Speaker 01: well, where there is a vacancy,
04:03:00 Speaker 01: we can try to pivot and
04:03:02 Speaker 01: provide some of that that support,
04:03:05 Speaker 01: that resiliency. So, so say if
04:03:06 Speaker 01: your base planner, say if Mefford
04:03:09 Speaker 31: signs on, for example, and the
04:03:10 Speaker 31: base planner that's normally assigned to
04:03:12 Speaker 31: Mefford decides to to to take
04:03:13 Speaker 31: a position somewhere else, we can,
04:03:15 Speaker 31: if we have a large enough
04:03:19 Speaker 31: pool of planners, we can still
04:03:20 Speaker 31: provide those supports. Can still provide
04:03:22 Speaker 31: those support services to to that
04:03:24 Speaker 31: municipality to to cover some of
04:03:25 Speaker 31: those gaps in the interim. So
04:03:27 Speaker 31: until we do that recruitment process,
04:03:29 Speaker 31: so I think that's that's
04:03:32 Speaker 31: really some of the key merits.
04:03:34 Speaker 31: I think of this of this
04:03:35 Speaker 31: system. It has to has to
04:03:37 Speaker 31: be the critical mass. There's not
04:03:38 Speaker 31: exact number we have in terms
04:03:40 Speaker 31: of of what municipalities were required
04:03:42 Speaker 31: for that critical mass, but the
04:03:44 Speaker 31: more municipalities we have, then the
04:03:45 Speaker 31: more resiliency and larger pool we
04:03:47 Speaker 31: would have of planners to be
04:03:49 Speaker 31: able to. Would have the planners
04:03:50 Speaker 31: to be able to cover off
04:03:51 Speaker 31: some of those gaps in the
04:03:52 Speaker 31: future. Okay, Councillor Body. Thanks, so
04:03:54 Speaker 31: Scott. First question: the Hydro Planning
04:03:54 Speaker 31: Service model is different than what
04:03:57 Speaker 31: you started off originally proposed. Did
04:03:59 Speaker 31: I hear that correctly? You're nodding
04:04:00 Speaker 31: your head. Yes. I wonder if
04:04:02 Speaker 31: you should be sending this report
04:04:04 Speaker 31: to all nine municipalities, not just
04:04:06 Speaker 31: seven, so that all nine of
04:04:08 Speaker 31: us can look at it, since
04:04:09 Speaker 31: it is a little bit different
04:04:11 Speaker 31: than maybe. what we considered
04:04:13 Speaker 31: originally. Thanks. Go ahead, three, Madam
04:04:15 Speaker 31: Warden. Yeah, we're certainly happy to
04:04:17 Speaker 31: take direction in that regard,
04:04:19 Speaker 31: Councilor Body. We're cognizant that some
04:04:22 Speaker 31: municipalities had already had already passed
04:04:23 Speaker 31: motions in that regard with respect
04:04:25 Speaker 31: to the hybrid sort of the
04:04:26 Speaker 31: key difference, and one of the
04:04:28 Speaker 31: things that's taken a long time
04:04:30 Speaker 31: in these investigations is if we're
04:04:31 Speaker 31: not all nine together, then we
04:04:33 Speaker 31: really need to keep those financial
04:04:35 Speaker 31: buckets separate so that that. we're
04:04:36 Speaker 31: not having a non-participating municipality subsidize
04:04:37 Speaker 31: a participating municipality. If we were
04:04:39 Speaker 31: all nine together, then you know
04:04:40 Speaker 31: everybody could pool their application revenues
04:04:42 Speaker 31: and anything else could come from
04:04:44 Speaker 31: the broader levy. But yeah, certainly
04:04:45 Speaker 31: happy to take direction and share
04:04:46 Speaker 31: with with all municipalities if that's
04:04:48 Speaker 31: the will of council. Okay, thank
04:04:49 Speaker 31: you. A follow up. Do you
04:04:52 Speaker 31: need a motion to amend? Then
04:04:54 Speaker 31: I was just consulting with the
04:04:57 Speaker 31: clerk. What we. But we can
04:04:59 Speaker 31: leave the motion intact the way
04:05:00 Speaker 31: it is, and just simply add
04:05:02 Speaker 31: in to all my municipalities for
04:05:03 Speaker 31: information purposes, and then that it
04:05:04 Speaker 31: will be up to the Town
04:05:07 Speaker 31: of the Mountains and Owen Sound
04:05:09 Speaker 31: if they wish to have uptake
04:05:11 Speaker 31: and respond in a different
04:05:12 Speaker 31: way. At the moment, it wouldn't
04:05:13 Speaker 31: go. So I'll I'll look to
04:05:16 Speaker 31: the clerk if she's got a
04:05:18 Speaker 31: better idea. Thank you, and through
04:05:20 Speaker 31: you, Madam Warden. we could. I
04:05:22 Speaker 31: think the two options we there
04:05:24 Speaker 31: an amendment would be in order.
04:05:26 Speaker 31: You could formally add in the
04:05:27 Speaker 31: two municipalities, and then they will
04:05:28 Speaker 31: receive the same letter and report
04:05:29 Speaker 31: as as everyone else. Or, it
04:05:31 Speaker 31: council could leave it the same,
04:05:32 Speaker 31: and but we could still, as
04:05:34 Speaker 31: for information, send it to Olmstead
04:05:35 Speaker 31: and the town of the Blue
04:05:36 Speaker 31: Mountains for their interest and information.
04:05:38 Speaker 31: And if it makes sense, the
04:05:40 Speaker 31: onus could be on those municipalities
04:05:41 Speaker 31: to actively reach out by. Actively
04:05:43 Speaker 31: reach out. Vice Scott may have
04:05:44 Speaker 31: something else to add. Certainly, happy
04:05:48 Speaker 31: to follow the clerk and council's
04:05:49 Speaker 31: direction in that regard. The one
04:05:52 Speaker 31: thing I'd say with respect
04:05:57 Speaker 31: to sharing with Blue Mountains and
04:05:58 Speaker 31: Owen Sound in that regard
04:06:01 Speaker 31: is, you know, you'd see the
04:06:04 Speaker 31: the recommendation, you'd see the report,
04:06:05 Speaker 31: you'd see the MOU. We haven't
04:06:07 Speaker 31: done that financial costing for your
04:06:09 Speaker 31: two municipalities. So for each municipality,
04:06:11 Speaker 31: we've said planning services in West
04:06:13 Speaker 31: Grey. If you sign on, this
04:06:15 Speaker 31: is what we think it would
04:06:16 Speaker 31: cost. Great Highlands, etc., etc. So
04:06:18 Speaker 31: we we haven't worked that out.
04:06:19 Speaker 31: Yeah, I don't want to get
04:06:20 Speaker 31: kicked from our finance staff as
04:06:22 Speaker 31: to how long that would take.
04:06:24 Speaker 31: But if if there was a
04:06:25 Speaker 31: a desire to discuss further, we
04:06:28 Speaker 31: could we could certainly discuss further.
04:06:30 Speaker 31: So with that bit of information,
04:06:30 Speaker 31: then just please send the memo
04:06:32 Speaker 31: and everything on. I wouldn't amend
04:06:34 Speaker 31: to include us in that. Thanks.
04:06:37 Speaker 31: Okay, so you're content with leaving
04:06:38 Speaker 31: it the way it is. Okay.
04:06:40 Speaker 31: All right, and certainly, you know,
04:06:41 Speaker 31: all of us report back to
04:06:42 Speaker 31: our our lower tiers in terms
04:06:43 Speaker 31: of sharing news and updates from
04:06:45 Speaker 31: Gray County. The highlights are always
04:06:47 Speaker 31: posted. So if there's if there's
04:06:50 Speaker 31: a triggering conversation that happens in
04:06:52 Speaker 31: the remaining two municipalities, it's possible
04:06:54 Speaker 31: for that to happen. Okay. So,
04:06:56 Speaker 31: are there any further questions? Okay.
04:06:58 Speaker 31: There you go. So, in that
04:06:59 Speaker 31: case, then I'm going to call
04:07:02 Speaker 31: the vote. Then, all those in
04:07:04 Speaker 31: favor. Okay, and that motion is
04:07:06 Speaker 31: carried. Thank you. Okay, I'm going
04:07:07 Speaker 31: to call a five-minute break before
04:07:08 Speaker 31: we bring up our economic development
04:07:10 Speaker 31: report, which may be a little
04:07:11 Speaker 31: bit detailed as well. And we
04:07:13 Speaker 31: have we have that two more
04:07:16 Speaker 31: items before we go into close.
04:07:18 Speaker 31: So five-minute break, and we'll be
04:07:19 Speaker 31: back. Okay, we're just going to
04:07:20 Speaker 31: ask everybody to sit down so
04:07:23 Speaker 31: we can get our quorum put
04:07:24 Speaker 31: together. Okay, and we are going
04:07:27 Speaker 31: to try to keep. going because
04:07:28 Speaker 31: we are a little worried about
04:07:30 Speaker 31: some meetings coming up on people's
04:07:31 Speaker 31: plates might mean we end up
04:07:33 Speaker 31: with a quorum issue. So, with
04:07:34 Speaker 31: that, are we good with technology?
04:07:36 Speaker 31: Yes. Okay. Great. So we can
04:07:39 Speaker 31: carry on. So we are going
04:07:42 Speaker 31: to go to item seven E.
04:07:45 Speaker 31: It's recommended that the Planning and
04:07:46 Speaker 31: Economic Development Committee meeting minutes, dated
04:07:47 Speaker 31: May twenty seventh, twenty twenty six,
04:07:50 Speaker 31: be adopted as presented. And the
04:07:53 Speaker 31: following resolutions contained therein be endorsed.
04:07:54 Speaker 31: That the report E. That the
04:07:56 Speaker 31: report EDTCPDOC 0826 regarding the Economic
04:07:58 Speaker 31: Development Tourism and Culture Strategic Strategic
04:07:59 Speaker 31: Progress Update, May 2026, be received
04:08:01 Speaker 31: for information. May ask remover and
04:08:03 Speaker 31: a seconder. Moved by Councillor Kevney,
04:08:06 Speaker 31: seconded by Councillor Carleton. It's now
04:08:08 Speaker 31: on the floor for discussion. Welcome,
04:08:10 Speaker 31: Director Myers. Thank you very much.
04:08:12 Speaker 31: Good afternoon, County Council. I can
04:08:13 Speaker 31: be speedy. The meeting itself was
04:08:16 Speaker 31: not speedy, but this update can
04:08:18 Speaker 31: be. It was a great. meeting,
04:08:19 Speaker 31: and it was our very first
04:08:21 Speaker 31: progress update under Year Three, 2026
04:08:22 Speaker 31: theme of Market under the Economic
04:08:25 Speaker 31: Development, Tourism, Culture Master Plan. So
04:08:26 Speaker 31: we started off with just a
04:08:29 Speaker 31: quick discussion about the lean momentum
04:08:29 Speaker 31: that is continuing across our department.
04:08:31 Speaker 31: So we have introduced lots of
04:08:34 Speaker 31: different training and leadership opportunities, better
04:08:36 Speaker 31: progress huddles and check-ins, just to
04:08:38 Speaker 31: make sure that we're aligned and
04:08:40 Speaker 31: we're all actually evaluating the progress
04:08:42 Speaker 31: of how staff are feeling about
04:08:44 Speaker 31: this, how our workloads, how how
04:08:45 Speaker 31: are we building that excitement and
04:08:47 Speaker 31: checking off those boxes, and so
04:08:48 Speaker 31: far so good. We had really
04:08:52 Speaker 31: good response from staff, which is
04:08:53 Speaker 31: great. There's always little bumps along
04:08:54 Speaker 31: the way that we knew were
04:08:56 Speaker 31: going to be coming, but they
04:08:57 Speaker 31: are under control, and we're working
04:08:58 Speaker 31: through them. That's what our summer
04:09:00 Speaker 31: is for. So we should have
04:09:02 Speaker 31: another great update for you in
04:09:03 Speaker 31: September. The update that I brought
04:09:06 Speaker 31: was around the Team Gray MOU,
04:09:06 Speaker 31: which we talked about just a
04:09:08 Speaker 31: couple weeks ago, with all municipalities
04:09:10 Speaker 31: and the county being signed on.
04:09:11 Speaker 31: So we are now busy working
04:09:12 Speaker 31: on some of those shared files
04:09:16 Speaker 31: to track the areas of. opportunity,
04:09:18 Speaker 31: requests for consideration, and economic development
04:09:20 Speaker 31: advocacy opportunities, and that is now
04:09:23 Speaker 31: a standing agenda item on the
04:09:25 Speaker 31: quarterly county municipal economic development working
04:09:27 Speaker 31: group meetings. We gave a little
04:09:30 Speaker 31: heads up about the leadership series
04:09:33 Speaker 31: and the wardens economic development leadership
04:09:35 Speaker 31: luncheon that was coming, and we
04:09:36 Speaker 31: had that on May 29. We
04:09:38 Speaker 31: tied our evaluation was tied nine
04:09:40 Speaker 31: out of ten, which was the
04:09:42 Speaker 31: same as our very first one.
04:09:43 Speaker 31: So congratulations to all! Thank you
04:09:46 Speaker 31: so much for those who were
04:09:47 Speaker 31: able to make it. The energy
04:09:49 Speaker 31: in the room continues. to build
04:09:51 Speaker 31: every time we come together. The
04:09:52 Speaker 31: asset activity was really good, and
04:09:54 Speaker 31: we know from the feedback that
04:09:55 Speaker 31: that's an area that we want
04:09:56 Speaker 31: to continue growing. So that is
04:09:57 Speaker 31: already agenda item number one for
04:10:00 Speaker 31: the spring session that we will
04:10:02 Speaker 31: have next year. And then we
04:10:04 Speaker 31: also talked about advocacy pursuits around
04:10:05 Speaker 31: Roma and Western Ontario Warden's Caucus
04:10:07 Speaker 31: Edco advocacy days. Those were in
04:10:10 Speaker 31: May, and we had some really
04:10:12 Speaker 31: good opportunities to actually sit down
04:10:13 Speaker 31: at Queen's Park, which was something
04:10:15 Speaker 31: that we had heard from Dan
04:10:17 Speaker 31: Matheson's speak on the twenty ninth.
04:10:18 Speaker 31: Speak on the 29th, and since
04:10:19 Speaker 31: then there's been really good follow-up
04:10:21 Speaker 31: meetings as well with Georgian College
04:10:22 Speaker 31: and Niagara Escarpment Commission. So those
04:10:24 Speaker 31: are now regular. We're meeting monthly
04:10:26 Speaker 31: and quarterly with different groups and
04:10:27 Speaker 31: keeping those discussions going, which is
04:10:30 Speaker 31: helping us progress the work and
04:10:31 Speaker 31: advocacy there. Under the business development
04:10:32 Speaker 31: side, when we wrote this report,
04:10:34 Speaker 31: we did not have our TPA
04:10:36 Speaker 31: from the province. We now do
04:10:38 Speaker 31: have our TPA from the province
04:10:40 Speaker 31: for the Business Enterprise Center, which
04:10:41 Speaker 31: is really good news, and it
04:10:42 Speaker 31: actually aligned with the advocacy efforts
04:10:44 Speaker 31: that we had at AMO last
04:10:46 Speaker 31: year. We now have a longer
04:10:48 Speaker 31: Last year, where we now have
04:10:50 Speaker 31: a longer contract, we've seen increased
04:10:52 Speaker 31: funding, so that was really nice
04:10:53 Speaker 31: outcome to see. And I just
04:10:56 Speaker 31: want to highlight a couple because
04:10:57 Speaker 31: in the minutes it talks about
04:10:59 Speaker 31: how we've seen a growth
04:11:01 Speaker 31: in business enterprise center activity. So
04:11:05 Speaker 31: in the first four months alone,
04:11:06 Speaker 31: they had 233 inquiries from entrepreneurs,
04:11:07 Speaker 31: 56 one-hour minimum consultations. That has
04:11:09 Speaker 31: resulted in 22 new businesses launched,
04:11:11 Speaker 31: 14 businesses sustained, three business expansions,
04:11:13 Speaker 31: and one business purchase. Mansions and
04:11:16 Speaker 31: one business purchase just in
04:11:20 Speaker 31: the first four months of 2026.
04:11:23 Speaker 31: So things have been going very
04:11:25 Speaker 31: well. There's a lot of movement
04:11:28 Speaker 31: there. We also heard an update
04:11:30 Speaker 31: about facilities and the fact that
04:11:32 Speaker 31: our projects are going very well.
04:11:34 Speaker 31: We've completed several of them. The
04:11:36 Speaker 31: Gray Roots sign being the most
04:11:37 Speaker 31: exciting. If you have not been
04:11:38 Speaker 31: past Gray Roots lately, please take
04:11:40 Speaker 31: a drive. We have actually heard
04:11:41 Speaker 31: people saying, you know, the museum
04:11:44 Speaker 31: with the big blue sign just
04:11:46 Speaker 31: outside of Rockford, though, is already
04:11:48 Speaker 31: being recognized and it's been up
04:11:49 Speaker 31: for a month and a half.
04:11:50 Speaker 31: So that's a good sign. but
04:11:51 Speaker 31: our capital projects are going well
04:11:52 Speaker 01: so far. Under the economic development
04:11:54 Speaker 01: heading, we talked about the Main
04:11:58 Speaker 01: and Gray program around the job
04:12:00 Speaker 01: fair that was hosted, which we
04:12:02 Speaker 01: had already talked about with this
04:12:03 Speaker 01: group, and the Chisholm Cruising Connect,
04:12:05 Speaker 01: which had over 250 guests on
04:12:07 Speaker 01: the boat after the evening on
04:12:09 Speaker 01: April 23rd. There has been lots
04:12:11 Speaker 01: of really positive momentum to around
04:12:13 Speaker 01: investment readiness. So there is some
04:12:15 Speaker 01: definite movement happening in Hanover and
04:12:17 Speaker 01: Hanover West Gray with the Saugeen
04:12:19 Speaker 01: Municipal Airport, Hanover Hotel projects, and.
04:12:24 Speaker 01: starting to work on really specific
04:12:27 Speaker 01: opportunities, which is really exciting for
04:12:29 Speaker 01: us to see because those are
04:12:30 Speaker 01: only coming because of all of
04:12:32 Speaker 01: the work that's been done to
04:12:33 Speaker 01: date to get those foundational pieces
04:12:36 Speaker 01: and those studies completed. So things
04:12:39 Speaker 01: are starting to move on the
04:12:42 Speaker 01: investment readiness side. We also talked
04:12:43 Speaker 01: about Sydenham Campus and how busy
04:12:46 Speaker 01: that facility has been, and we
04:12:47 Speaker 27: heard this morning from Jessica, NII
04:12:49 Speaker 27: hosted one event there. We had
04:12:50 Speaker 27: the Healthy Communities Conference hosted there.
04:12:51 Speaker 27: Community Impact Lab is now there,
04:12:53 Speaker 27: which is part of a partnership
04:12:55 Speaker 27: between Georgian College. City of Owen
04:12:57 Speaker 27: Sound, and we are providing the
04:12:58 Speaker 27: space. And then Canadian Innovation Week.
04:13:00 Speaker 27: So there's been a lot happening
04:13:02 Speaker 27: in the first quarter at Sydenham,
04:13:03 Speaker 27: which has been phenomenal. And then
04:13:05 Speaker 27: lots of sector opportunities and roundtables
04:13:07 Speaker 27: to be touching base with our
04:13:09 Speaker 27: businesses and making sure that the
04:13:10 Speaker 27: work that we're doing is exactly
04:13:11 Speaker 27: what they need. Under strategic marketing,
04:13:13 Speaker 27: the absolute highlight from this team
04:13:14 Speaker 27: is the fact that we have
04:13:15 Speaker 27: just launched the new visitgrey.ca. If
04:13:17 Speaker 27: you have not. dot.ca. If you
04:13:20 Speaker 27: have not been on it, take
04:13:22 Speaker 27: a minute to take a look.
04:13:25 Speaker 27: It has been completely refaced
04:13:28 Speaker 27: under the Gather brand. The intention
04:13:30 Speaker 27: that went into building this website
04:13:32 Speaker 27: in a way that is going
04:13:35 Speaker 27: to do its best work for
04:13:36 Speaker 27: our businesses is unbelievable. And we
04:13:39 Speaker 27: just had a session yesterday
04:13:41 Speaker 27: with our municipalities, with tourism operators,
04:13:43 Speaker 27: and that was the one thing
04:13:45 Speaker 27: that we heard was well done
04:13:47 Speaker 27: on the intention that went into
04:13:50 Speaker 27: this website. Not only is it
04:13:51 Speaker 27: gorgeous, it actually functions in a
04:13:53 Speaker 27: way that is now supporting and.
04:13:55 Speaker 27: In a way that is now
04:13:56 Speaker 27: supporting industry, so I'm really, really
04:13:57 Speaker 27: pleased with the team, and that
04:13:58 Speaker 27: was a huge effort, and it
04:14:01 Speaker 27: is now launched. So send
04:14:03 Speaker 27: it everywhere if you can. They've
04:14:05 Speaker 27: also been very intentional about consumer
04:14:08 Speaker 27: and industry outreach. We talked about
04:14:09 Speaker 27: business engagement and onboarding, and then
04:14:12 Speaker 27: the data to action work that's
04:14:15 Speaker 27: supporting EDTC as a whole, as
04:14:16 Speaker 27: well as all of your member
04:14:18 Speaker 27: municipalities. So we were able to,
04:14:20 Speaker 27: in our meeting last month, bring
04:14:23 Speaker 27: Environics to the table. They actually
04:14:25 Speaker 27: physically came here and walked
04:14:27 Speaker 27: through a lot of different uses.
04:14:31 Speaker 27: that we can use this data
04:14:33 Speaker 27: for, that you all have access
04:14:36 Speaker 27: to, and it's not just economic
04:14:38 Speaker 27: development. Every one of your
04:14:40 Speaker 27: departments can access this information. So
04:14:42 Speaker 27: now we're all talking from the
04:14:44 Speaker 27: same information, and that's I think
04:14:45 Speaker 27: going to be really key as
04:14:47 Speaker 27: we work to move forward, and
04:14:49 Speaker 27: aligns very well with the work
04:14:50 Speaker 27: under Team Gray and everything that
04:14:52 Speaker 27: we've seen with the Joint Municipal
04:14:53 Speaker 27: Services Committee. For Gray Roots Museum
04:14:54 Speaker 27: and Archives, our highlight from there:
04:14:56 Speaker 27: not only have we launched some
04:14:58 Speaker 27: amazing exhibits, living histories exhibit. has
04:14:59 Speaker 27: just wrapped up. We had Black
04:15:01 Speaker 27: Roots exhibit in Gray for Black
04:15:04 Speaker 27: History Month. Rail Day always popular,
04:15:05 Speaker 27: but March break and some of
04:15:08 Speaker 27: the worst weather that we get
04:15:10 Speaker 27: sold out the entire week. Every
04:15:11 Speaker 27: program was sold out, which is
04:15:12 Speaker 27: awesome. So families and little kids
04:15:15 Speaker 27: and grandparents and everybody they are
04:15:16 Speaker 27: coming out to Gray Roots to
04:15:18 Speaker 27: utilize the services, and we've seen
04:15:19 Speaker 27: a tremendous increase in memberships as
04:15:21 Speaker 27: well. So it's not the traveling
04:15:23 Speaker 27: exhibit that's coming in; it's
04:15:24 Speaker 27: what we have. all the time
04:15:27 Speaker 27: that is drawing people back, and
04:15:28 Speaker 27: to the point where now it's
04:15:30 Speaker 27: valuable for them to get a
04:15:32 Speaker 27: membership. So to see that switch
04:15:34 Speaker 27: has been just incredible for the
04:15:36 Speaker 27: team. We have also just welcomed
04:15:39 Speaker 27: wild weather. It is now up
04:15:40 Speaker 27: for the rest of the summer,
04:15:42 Speaker 27: and there is a local climate
04:15:43 Speaker 27: action story exhibit that goes along
04:15:46 Speaker 27: with it. So all this to
04:15:48 Speaker 27: say, Gray Roots has been very
04:15:50 Speaker 27: busy. Sydney has been very busy.
04:15:51 Speaker 27: Everybody is just go go go.
04:15:53 Speaker 27: So we're looking forward to a
04:15:56 Speaker 27: summer where we get to now
04:15:58 Speaker 27: go internal a little bit. and
04:15:59 Speaker 27: we're working back on our processes
04:16:02 Speaker 27: and back through lean and starting
04:16:03 Speaker 27: to plan for next year. So
04:16:05 Speaker 27: it is a good time for
04:16:07 Speaker 27: us in EDTC and under community
04:16:08 Speaker 27: transportation. We also heard an update
04:16:10 Speaker 27: that the phase one study is
04:16:13 Speaker 27: still progressing. We will be coming
04:16:16 Speaker 27: back to council in the near
04:16:17 Speaker 27: future with an update report on
04:16:19 Speaker 27: that. And then a welcome to
04:16:21 Speaker 27: all of our EDTC summer students
04:16:22 Speaker 27: as well. We're very fortunate; we
04:16:24 Speaker 27: have 14 of them in our
04:16:25 Speaker 27: department, so we nearly double in
04:16:26 Speaker 27: size over the summer months. But
04:16:27 Speaker 27: the energy that they bring is
04:16:29 Speaker 27: just amazing. I'm not going to
04:16:31 Speaker 27: talk through any of the planning
04:16:32 Speaker 27: pieces because that is definitely Scott's
04:16:34 Speaker 27: department. But he brought a great
04:16:36 Speaker 27: update on county housing plan, growth
04:16:38 Speaker 27: management study, archaeological management plan, age
04:16:40 Speaker 27: friendly plan, and development charges bylaw.
04:16:42 Speaker 27: So there was a lot of
04:16:43 Speaker 27: great information there. And then we
04:16:45 Speaker 27: talked about Bill 98 as well,
04:16:47 Speaker 27: which has just passed royal assent.
04:16:49 Speaker 27: And from a sector challenge and
04:16:51 Speaker 27: roundtable, we talked about cost of
04:16:53 Speaker 27: businesses downtown. opportunities, patios, and then
04:16:54 Speaker 27: the last piece was around TC
04:16:55 Speaker 27: Energy, where the impact assessment is
04:16:56 Speaker 27: underway, or no, sorry, just completed,
04:16:57 Speaker 27: and then getting ready for the
04:17:00 Speaker 27: next phases of assessment and impact,
04:17:01 Speaker 27: and all kinds of studies to
04:17:04 Speaker 27: come. Still, so that is the
04:17:05 Speaker 27: fastest update I can give you
04:17:07 Speaker 27: for what was a very long
04:17:09 Speaker 27: but very energetic meeting. And if
04:17:10 Speaker 27: you have any questions, please let
04:17:12 Speaker 27: me know. Okay, thank you very
04:17:13 Speaker 27: much. And as we know, it
04:17:14 Speaker 27: is. received for information. I, the
04:17:17 Speaker 27: clerk, and I are aware that
04:17:18 Speaker 27: there are some people that do
04:17:20 Speaker 27: need to leave. So I am
04:17:21 Speaker 27: going to be careful about quorum.
04:17:23 Speaker 27: Are there any questions that are
04:17:26 Speaker 27: there for Director Myers? Okay, not
04:17:27 Speaker 27: seen any. It's been moved and
04:17:28 Speaker 27: seconded. All those in favor, and
04:17:31 Speaker 27: that motion is carried. Thank you
04:17:32 Speaker 27: very much, Director Myers. And sorry
04:17:33 Speaker 27: to to have to press
04:17:35 Speaker 27: you in the afternoon to condense
04:17:37 Speaker 27: as as efficiently as you were
04:17:40 Speaker 27: able to. Thank you very much.
04:17:41 Speaker 27: Okay, so next. we do need
04:17:43 Speaker 27: to visit item 7F, which was
04:17:44 Speaker 27: added to the revised agenda. It's
04:17:45 Speaker 27: recommended that report PDRCW2426 regarding the
04:17:48 Speaker 27: Canada Ontario Development Charges Reduction
04:17:49 Speaker 27: Program be received for information.
04:17:51 Speaker 27: May I ask for a mover
04:17:53 Speaker 27: and a seconder? Moved by Councillor
04:17:55 Speaker 27: DeGraffenreid, seconded by Councillor Eccles. It's
04:17:56 Speaker 27: now on the floor for discussion.
04:17:57 Speaker 27: To you, Director Taylor, in your
04:17:59 Speaker 27: concise ability. Thank you. Great. Thanks,
04:18:00 Speaker 27: Madam Warden. Morton, I'll try to
04:18:01 Speaker 27: go quick on this one. Apologize
04:18:02 Speaker 27: for getting this report to to
04:18:07 Speaker 27: council a little bit later. This
04:18:08 Speaker 27: has been an emerging project, and
04:18:10 Speaker 27: thank you very much to Nile,
04:18:12 Speaker 27: Mary Lou, and Randy for all
04:18:14 Speaker 27: their efforts on this one. Staff
04:18:17 Speaker 27: haven't been able to thoroughly research
04:18:22 Speaker 27: the development charges reduction program as
04:18:23 Speaker 27: much as we'd like prior to
04:18:25 Speaker 02: bringing a report to council. Details
04:18:27 Speaker 02: are still emerging, but it was
04:18:28 Speaker 02: only issued on June the first,
04:18:30 Speaker 02: and and the funding deadline to
04:18:31 Speaker 02: apply is 10 a.m. on June
04:18:35 Speaker 02: 19th. In that regard, we value
04:18:37 Speaker 02: the provincial and federal governments' efforts
04:18:41 Speaker 02: in this regard, but if if
04:18:42 Speaker 02: we could. In this regard, but
04:18:47 Speaker 02: if we could make one small
04:18:49 Speaker 02: ask, we'd love just a little
04:18:50 Speaker 02: bit more time and a little
04:18:54 Speaker 02: bit more detail to to inform
04:18:58 Speaker 02: our councils accordingly. The province and
04:18:59 Speaker 02: the federal government have announced an
04:19:02 Speaker 02: 8.8 billion funding pool to municipalities,
04:19:03 Speaker 02: where a municipality reduces their development
04:19:05 Speaker 02: charges on residential developments by at
04:19:08 Speaker 02: least 30 to 50, and that
04:19:10 Speaker 02: would be retroactive back to March
04:19:13 Speaker 02: 30th, 2026. And the municipality has
04:19:15 Speaker 02: to contribute at least 10 of
04:19:17 Speaker 02: the eligible municipal infrastructure projects from
04:19:20 Speaker 02: the. municipality. The reductions would come
04:19:22 Speaker 02: in place upon signing of the
04:19:27 Speaker 02: transfer payment agreement. Should should a
04:19:29 Speaker 27: municipality apply and and and be
04:19:30 Speaker 27: selected in that regard, again, it
04:19:32 Speaker 27: only applies on residential developments, but
04:19:33 Speaker 27: it has to apply to all
04:19:35 Speaker 27: residential developments. So it would apply,
04:19:36 Speaker 27: you know, whether you're building a
04:19:38 Speaker 27: single detached home or a row
04:19:39 Speaker 27: house or an apartment, it applies
04:19:40 Speaker 27: equally there. With respect to the
04:19:41 Speaker 27: the municipal contributions, municipal municipalities have
04:19:43 Speaker 27: to put forward up to five
04:19:45 Speaker 27: housing enabling infrastructure projects. that are
04:19:47 Speaker 27: already listed in their development charges
04:19:48 Speaker 27: background study and and already in
04:19:50 Speaker 27: their municipal capital plans. Those projects
04:19:50 Speaker 27: would need to start construction by
04:19:51 Speaker 27: at least July 31st of 2030,
04:19:53 Speaker 27: and would need to be fully
04:19:55 Speaker 27: completed by October 31st, 2035. So
04:19:58 Speaker 27: the province is is really emphasizing
04:19:59 Speaker 27: shovel readiness of these infrastructure projects
04:20:01 Speaker 27: in that regard. There is some
04:20:03 Speaker 27: some uncertainty on on how we
04:20:04 Speaker 27: would draw that direct linkage between
04:20:06 Speaker 27: projects in the counties. Projects in
04:20:07 Speaker 27: the county's development charges background study
04:20:09 Speaker 27: and and housing enabling infrastructure in
04:20:11 Speaker 27: that regard, as council be aware,
04:20:13 Speaker 27: approximately 80% of our development charges
04:20:16 Speaker 27: are collected on our county roads,
04:20:17 Speaker 27: and so it's not as simple
04:20:18 Speaker 27: as saying if we're extending this
04:20:19 Speaker 27: water and sewer pipe to this
04:20:20 Speaker 27: new area of town, we could
04:20:25 Speaker 27: suddenly get 400 new homes in
04:20:27 Speaker 27: this new area of town. You
04:20:34 Speaker 27: know that would be a bit
04:20:34 Speaker 27: more tenuous to draw, but if
04:20:37 Speaker 27: if council wanted to apply, then
04:20:38 Speaker 27: then we could work towards that.
04:20:40 Speaker 27: The the reduction of the development
04:20:41 Speaker 27: charges would need to be done
04:20:42 Speaker 06: for at least three years. Municipalities
04:20:44 Speaker 06: could go longer. The provinces made
04:20:47 Speaker 06: it clear that if municipalities are
04:20:49 Speaker 06: looking to go beyond the fifty
04:20:51 Speaker 06: percent reduction or contribute more than
04:20:53 Speaker 06: ten percent of the eligible municipal
04:20:54 Speaker 06: costs, they'll be they'll be looked
04:20:56 Speaker 06: at more favorably in this regard.
04:20:57 Speaker 06: Another municipality termed this as a
04:21:00 Speaker 06: bit of a beauty contest, with
04:21:00 Speaker 06: municipalities putting forward their best efforts
04:21:05 Speaker 06: in that regard. Staff do see
04:21:06 Speaker 06: some challenges in that regard with
04:21:08 Speaker 06: respect to the potential impacts on
04:21:09 Speaker 06: the county and our ability to
04:21:11 Speaker 06: fund fund the infrastructure. in this
04:21:13 Speaker 06: regard. It's also clear that if
04:21:14 Speaker 06: there were cost overruns on that
04:21:15 Speaker 06: development charge project, let's just say
04:21:17 Speaker 06: you had a road upgrade that
04:21:20 Speaker 06: that you had anticipated to cost
04:21:21 Speaker 06: three million dollars. If you enter
04:21:23 Speaker 06: into this agreement with the province
04:21:25 Speaker 06: and the federal government, then any
04:21:32 Speaker 06: cost overruns are on the municipal
04:21:34 Speaker 06: dime, not not the province or
04:21:35 Speaker 08: or the feds. In that regard,
04:21:37 Speaker 08: we do think that the development
04:21:40 Speaker 08: charges reduction program is maybe better
04:21:41 Speaker 08: suited to larger and fast growing
04:21:43 Speaker 08: municipalities who have some of that
04:21:46 Speaker 08: more. direct housing enabling infrastructure, like
04:21:47 Speaker 08: the water and sewer services. In
04:21:50 Speaker 08: that regard, as part of your
04:21:52 Speaker 08: application, you need to to estimate
04:21:55 Speaker 08: the number of housing units that
04:21:56 Speaker 08: that would be enabled through through
04:21:58 Speaker 08: this this project. In that regard,
04:22:00 Speaker 08: so the staff recommendation in the
04:22:02 Speaker 08: report is is that you would
04:22:04 Speaker 08: just receive for information. But we
04:22:06 Speaker 08: provided an alternate option, and and
04:22:08 Speaker 08: there was messaging going back and
04:22:09 Speaker 08: forth between Nile and Randy and
04:22:12 Speaker 08: Mary Lou and I, even as
04:22:14 Speaker 08: of nine p.m. last night and
04:22:16 Speaker 08: seven a.m. this morning, on what
04:22:18 Speaker 08: the appropriate option was here. The
04:22:19 Speaker 08: one thing. we've landed on as
04:22:20 Speaker 08: staff was if council does want
04:22:22 Speaker 08: to direct staff to apply for
04:22:24 Speaker 08: this, maybe the wording could be
04:22:26 Speaker 08: that we we would consider up
04:22:28 Speaker 08: to fifty percent, maybe based on
04:22:29 Speaker 08: the projects we put forward. Fifty
04:22:31 Speaker 08: percent isn't the exact number, but
04:22:31 Speaker 08: staff would continue to to work
04:22:33 Speaker 08: with finance and transportation services and
04:22:36 Speaker 08: others to crunch the numbers in
04:22:38 Speaker 08: that regard. Although the staff recommendation
04:22:41 Speaker 08: is just to receive one of
04:22:43 Speaker 08: the things we weighed and one
04:22:44 Speaker 08: of the things that's come up
04:22:46 Speaker 08: in other municipal discussions in other
04:22:47 Speaker 08: parts of the province is is
04:22:50 Speaker 08: there reputational damage. if you don't
04:22:54 Speaker 08: apply? You know, are you going
04:22:55 Speaker 08: to to put the the perception
04:22:57 Speaker 08: out there to the province that
04:22:58 Speaker 08: maybe municipality X or the gray
04:23:00 Speaker 08: county aren't doing enough to to
04:23:02 Speaker 08: try to get shovels in the
04:23:03 Speaker 08: ground and and building permits going
04:23:05 Speaker 08: on new homes in that regard?
04:23:08 Speaker 08: So you know, as much as
04:23:09 Speaker 08: we see an application being challenging,
04:23:11 Speaker 08: we also wonder if there's any
04:23:17 Speaker 08: sort of informal ramifications that would
04:23:18 Speaker 08: come if we chose not to
04:23:20 Speaker 08: apply. And the final thing we
04:23:21 Speaker 08: wanted to to flag for council
04:23:22 Speaker 01: is gray county and a number
04:23:24 Speaker 01: of our municipalities are already doing
04:23:26 Speaker 01: quite a lot. to try to
04:23:28 Speaker 01: prompt residential building through development charges.
04:23:32 Speaker 01: The county, for approximately the last
04:23:34 Speaker 32: five years, has offered development charges
04:23:36 Speaker 32: exemption agreements for all rental housing,
04:23:38 Speaker 32: all purpose-built rental housing, whereby if
04:23:41 Speaker 32: they meet the terms of the
04:23:43 Speaker 32: agreement, they don't pay any county
04:23:45 Speaker 32: development charges. Some of our member
04:23:48 Speaker 32: municipalities, like the city of Olmstead,
04:23:53 Speaker 32: have also offered similar agreements. The
04:23:57 Speaker 32: county also doesn't charge development charges
04:23:59 Speaker 32: on residential developments that have been
04:24:03 Speaker 32: incentivized by a community improvement plan
04:24:05 Speaker 32: or for nonprofit housing. So, in
04:24:08 Speaker 32: a whirlwind, that's what I had.
04:24:09 Speaker 32: Certainly. Whirlwind—that's what I had. Certainly,
04:24:12 Speaker 32: turn it back over to either
04:24:14 Speaker 32: Randy Nile or Mary Lou if
04:24:15 Speaker 32: they have anything further to add,
04:24:18 Speaker 32: and maybe jointly we can try
04:24:20 Speaker 32: to answer Council's questions in that
04:24:32 Speaker 32: regard. Thank you. Okay, so with
04:24:35 Speaker 32: that, then I will put it
04:24:38 Speaker 32: out if there are questions, Councilor
04:24:44 Speaker 32: Greg. I guess it would just
04:24:46 Speaker 32: help me. I'm just going to
04:24:48 Speaker 01: throw, for example, at you. I
04:24:50 Speaker 01: see there. There's a municipality just
04:24:52 Speaker 01: to the east of Gray County
04:24:54 Speaker 01: that needs a water treatment facility.
04:24:56 Speaker 01: Needs a water treatment plant. Let's
04:24:57 Speaker 01: just for rough numbers say it's
04:25:00 Speaker 01: three hundred million dollars, a hundred
04:25:01 Speaker 01: million dollars is going to be
04:25:03 Speaker 01: funded by DCs. This program could
04:25:04 Speaker 01: activate ninety million dollars of funding
04:25:08 Speaker 01: and ten percent municipal costs by
04:25:10 Speaker 01: reducing their DCs, if I have
04:25:11 Speaker 01: this right, if I'm interpreting this
04:25:14 Speaker 01: correct. Whereas a county example, I'll
04:25:15 Speaker 01: use Gray Road Five right now
04:25:18 Speaker 01: going past the Wilson Hospital, while
04:25:19 Speaker 01: it could be reconstructed in the
04:25:21 Speaker 01: future, if we were going to
04:25:27 Speaker 01: take advantage of this, we could
04:25:29 Speaker 01: reconstruct a road, but there might
04:25:31 Speaker 01: not be a housing buildout occurs
04:25:32 Speaker 01: for fifteen or twenty years. So
04:25:35 Speaker 01: in scenario A, there's a very
04:25:37 Speaker 08: immediate return on the investment, but
04:25:39 Speaker 08: in scenario B, it's still tax
04:25:40 Speaker 08: dollars that are being put to
04:25:41 Speaker 08: use, and for twenty years, there's
04:25:42 Speaker 08: maybe no realized gain on it.
04:25:44 Speaker 08: Have I am I reading this
04:25:46 Speaker 08: this initiative correctly? Certainly, invite other
04:25:49 Speaker 08: colleagues to join in here. Through
04:25:51 Speaker 08: you, Mattamore. Sorry, I, you know,
04:25:53 Speaker 08: I, I think you are. One
04:25:55 Speaker 08: of the challenges among staff was
04:25:57 Speaker 08: was you know trying to figure
04:25:58 Speaker 08: out what county projects would even
04:26:01 Speaker 08: be eligible. One of the things
04:26:03 Speaker 08: I failed to mention because I
04:26:05 Speaker 08: was trying to rush was that
04:26:08 Speaker 08: maybe on paper some of the
04:26:09 Speaker 08: best county projects would be some
04:26:13 Speaker 08: of those urban road projects that
04:26:14 Speaker 08: might otherwise be you know in
04:26:16 Speaker 08: in the road exchange being discussed
04:26:18 Speaker 08: right now. And so you know
04:26:22 Speaker 08: if if we were to go
04:26:24 Speaker 08: forward and. if we were to
04:26:25 Speaker 08: put forward some of those projects,
04:26:28 Speaker 08: it it could delay the road
04:26:30 Speaker 08: exchanges. The province hasn't necessarily said
04:26:32 Speaker 08: that you need to see shovels
04:26:35 Speaker 08: in the ground on the housing.
04:26:38 Speaker 08: They want you to estimate the
04:26:39 Speaker 08: number of housing. But I think
04:26:41 Speaker 08: your point, Councilor Gregg, is fair
04:26:42 Speaker 08: that if if you invest those
04:26:45 Speaker 08: municipal dollars and provincial and federal
04:26:47 Speaker 08: dollars and then don't get that
04:26:50 Speaker 08: tax return in in short order
04:26:52 Speaker 08: by by you know those those
04:26:54 Speaker 08: buildings going up, then then it
04:26:56 Speaker 08: could leave you out. But I'm
04:26:57 Speaker 08: I'm not as financially minded as
04:26:59 Speaker 08: some of the others. So if
04:27:05 Speaker 08: anyone else has that. As some
04:27:07 Speaker 08: of the others, so if anyone
04:27:08 Speaker 08: else has anything to add, do
04:27:10 Speaker 08: weigh in. Okay, I don't see
04:27:11 Speaker 08: other hands raised from staff, so
04:27:16 Speaker 24: we'll go to Councillor Body. So
04:27:18 Speaker 24: Scott, it seems to me if
04:27:20 Speaker 24: we've got a chance to get
04:27:21 Speaker 24: money, even on the roads that
04:27:22 Speaker 24: are going to be downloaded, and
04:27:24 Speaker 24: even if it delays it a
04:27:25 Speaker 24: little bit, we can get free
04:27:29 Speaker 24: money. Free money is free money.
04:27:31 Speaker 24: I wonder if there is some
04:27:33 Speaker 24: utility and make. There is some
04:27:35 Speaker 24: utility in making the application, and
04:27:36 Speaker 24: then like there's a lot of
04:27:37 Speaker 24: questions and a lot of stuff
04:27:38 Speaker 24: we don't know. If that would
04:27:39 Speaker 24: allow us to acquire some of
04:27:40 Speaker 24: that information between the time we
04:27:41 Speaker 24: make the application and that point
04:27:51 Speaker 24: that they're looking for us to
04:27:53 Speaker 08: sign the whatever the agreement is,
04:27:55 Speaker 08: if that gives us if that
04:27:58 Speaker 08: buys us time that we don't
04:28:00 Speaker 08: we get to that point that
04:28:02 Speaker 08: we don't sign the agreement, we're
04:28:04 Speaker 08: not bound by signing the agreement
04:28:05 Speaker 08: till we sign it. If we
04:28:07 Speaker 08: do the application, we get that
04:28:10 Speaker 08: information. I know it's a lot
04:28:11 Speaker 08: of work for nine days, but
04:28:12 Speaker 08: it just seems to me that
04:28:14 Speaker 08: it keeps more options open. And
04:28:16 Speaker 08: from my point of view, I'd
04:28:18 Speaker 08: prefer keeping those options open. Through
04:28:20 Speaker 08: you, Warden, and this goes back
04:28:21 Speaker 08: to what Scott indicated. If we
04:28:23 Speaker 08: have more time, we think that
04:28:25 Speaker 08: there is opportunity here, and so
04:28:27 Speaker 08: we—that's why we put forward at
04:28:29 Speaker 08: least the option in the report
04:28:34 Speaker 08: to, if Council directs. we're we're
04:28:35 Speaker 08: happy to try to put together
04:28:37 Speaker 08: an application within the timeframes. It's
04:28:40 Speaker 08: tight. We've been talking to colleagues
04:28:41 Speaker 08: around the province again, hoping for
04:28:42 Speaker 08: a bit more time to be
04:28:44 Speaker 08: able to put these forward, especially
04:28:48 Speaker 08: when you're getting into joint joint
04:28:50 Speaker 08: projects. We've had colleagues reach out
04:28:51 Speaker 08: from neighboring counties saying, "Hey, if
04:28:52 Speaker 08: we put in this project, which
04:28:58 Speaker 08: is a neighboring a boundary road,
04:29:01 Speaker 24: can we put in one together?"
04:29:03 Speaker 24: There's options for that, but to
04:29:04 Speaker 24: do that in a very short
04:29:06 Speaker 24: window, it's going to be challenging.
04:29:09 Speaker 24: But we also see this merit,
04:29:10 Speaker 24: like you said, if there's opportunity
04:29:12 Speaker 24: to be able to have some
04:29:14 Speaker 24: of this money to offset some
04:29:17 Speaker 24: of these, some of our ongoing
04:29:18 Speaker 24: capital costs, then there may be
04:29:19 Speaker 24: an approach to do that. When
04:29:21 Speaker 24: we looked at the with the
04:29:22 Speaker 24: information that we have right now,
04:29:30 Speaker 24: and we've started to look at
04:29:32 Speaker 24: the projects and what may be
04:29:34 Speaker 08: eligible and what may be then
04:29:37 Speaker 08: attractive from a provincial lens perspective,
04:29:39 Speaker 08: we weren't seeing a direct correlation.
04:29:40 Speaker 08: But at the same time, we
04:29:42 Speaker 08: we see there's still opportunity to
04:29:45 Speaker 08: put forward an application, and it
04:29:47 Speaker 08: goes back to what Scott
04:29:50 Speaker 08: was indicating in terms of just
04:29:51 Speaker 08: from a reputational perspective, and and
04:29:54 Speaker 08: and seen in a favorable a
04:29:56 Speaker 08: light that way too. We think
04:29:58 Speaker 08: there's merit to maybe explore that.
04:29:59 Speaker 08: It is a it's going to
04:30:01 Speaker 08: be a bunch of work, but
04:30:01 Speaker 08: if council directs us to do
04:30:03 Speaker 08: so, we're we're happy to try
04:30:07 Speaker 08: to put forward our best foot
04:30:08 Speaker 08: forward and an application in essentially
04:30:10 Speaker 08: be seven business days or not
04:30:12 Speaker 08: five. business days? We did last
04:30:13 Speaker 08: night. So, okay. So, just before
04:30:15 Speaker 01: I move on, if there is,
04:30:16 Speaker 01: if there is a will to
04:30:18 Speaker 01: do an amendment to the main
04:30:21 Speaker 01: motion, the clerk has been listening
04:30:23 Speaker 01: to the conversation and has a
04:30:25 Speaker 01: draft of potential motion to put
04:30:27 Speaker 01: forward if we wish to pursue
04:30:29 Speaker 01: that route. Councillor Patterson. Thank you,
04:30:30 Speaker 01: Warden. I see this as a
04:30:32 Speaker 01: same as Councillor Body, an opportunity
04:30:34 Speaker 01: to get some housing in a.
04:30:36 Speaker 01: Some housing enabling work done across
04:30:37 Speaker 01: the county. I would suggest, if
04:30:39 Speaker 01: it's possible, that the county apply
04:30:42 Speaker 01: and include all nine municipalities. And
04:30:44 Speaker 01: then the successful projects that are
04:30:46 Speaker 01: awarded, that are successful, could contribute
04:30:47 Speaker 01: to the ten percent cost that
04:30:49 Speaker 01: the county will be picking up.
04:30:50 Speaker 01: And it's it's to our best
04:30:52 Speaker 01: interest to apply if we can
04:30:53 Speaker 01: do it. it's like leaving money
04:30:55 Speaker 01: on the table. And I think
04:30:56 Speaker 06: it's a regional benefit for all
04:30:58 Speaker 06: of us. And I'll just throw
04:30:59 Speaker 06: it in with the urban road
04:31:01 Speaker 06: transfer projects. I see a benefit
04:31:04 Speaker 06: for the urban municipalities. I would
04:31:05 Speaker 06: make that motion to amend with
04:31:07 Speaker 06: option two, and in. Option two,
04:31:09 Speaker 06: and include all nine municipalities if
04:31:12 Speaker 01: that's possible. Okay, I'm just going
04:31:14 Speaker 01: to look to the CAO before
04:31:15 Speaker 01: I look for a seconder to
04:31:17 Speaker 01: to just speak to the nine
04:31:18 Speaker 01: municipalities. We are under a timeline,
04:31:20 Speaker 01: like already. This motion will have
04:31:24 Speaker 01: to have that that part of
04:31:25 Speaker 01: that statement where we're going to
04:31:28 Speaker 01: say we're going to go over
04:31:29 Speaker 01: our procedural bylaw and make sure
04:31:34 Speaker 01: it gets gets the application gets
04:31:37 Speaker 33: in in time. So in terms.
04:31:39 Speaker 33: of getting consent from the municipalities,
04:31:41 Speaker 33: I don't know if if maybe
04:31:43 Speaker 33: the motion should just read what
04:31:46 Speaker 33: we would be submitting, and then
04:31:47 Speaker 33: after the fact we would go
04:31:53 Speaker 33: back to the municipalities if the
04:31:55 Speaker 33: project were there and ask for
04:31:56 Speaker 33: a contribution towards the ten percent.
04:31:57 Speaker 33: I'll go to UCO through your
04:31:58 Speaker 33: warden. So all the information that
04:32:01 Speaker 33: we've we've read so far, and
04:32:05 Speaker 33: and in fact there was there
04:32:07 Speaker 33: was going to be. this afternoon.
04:32:11 Speaker 33: Actually, started two thirty, I think.
04:32:12 Speaker 33: AMO was going to to hold
04:32:13 Speaker 33: a session. So this is this
04:32:15 Speaker 33: is how hot off the press
04:32:17 Speaker 33: I guess this is, and and
04:32:19 Speaker 33: how it's still a moving target.
04:32:22 Speaker 33: But what I was going to
04:32:25 Speaker 33: indicate what what what we've read
04:32:26 Speaker 33: so far is that in terms
04:32:28 Speaker 33: of the the projects that we
04:32:31 Speaker 33: can put forward as as the
04:32:34 Speaker 33: county as the applicant would be
04:32:38 Speaker 33: any projects that are within our
04:32:41 Speaker 33: DC background study and any projects
04:32:43 Speaker 33: within our capital plan. So there's
04:32:46 Speaker 33: they have to meet those check
04:32:48 Speaker 33: boxes. No doubt, some of the
04:32:51 Speaker 33: the the capital projects and DC
04:32:53 Speaker 33: projects, as it relates to some
04:32:59 Speaker 33: of the road transfer work, may
04:33:00 Speaker 33: align. So that's where we could
04:33:01 Speaker 33: look at those opportunities at the
04:33:03 Speaker 33: same time to have then those
04:33:04 Speaker 33: conversations with the municipalities, and and
04:33:06 Speaker 33: they get their direction from their
04:33:08 Speaker 33: councils. And and if they have
04:33:09 Speaker 33: a DC, are they going to?
04:33:14 Speaker 33: Are we submitting a joint application?
04:33:15 Speaker 33: Which we understand. would be a
04:33:18 Speaker 08: separate application. There's a lot to
04:33:20 Speaker 08: unpack within again a very short
04:33:21 Speaker 08: window. If the council were directing
04:33:23 Speaker 08: us to move forward with an
04:33:24 Speaker 08: application, probably the best that we
04:33:26 Speaker 08: could achieve at this stage would
04:33:29 Speaker 08: be to only look at projects
04:33:31 Speaker 08: within our county DC background study
04:33:33 Speaker 08: and our and our capital plan
04:33:35 Speaker 08: and move forward with those projects
04:33:37 Speaker 08: as an application. We will try
04:33:38 Speaker 08: our best to to reach out
04:33:40 Speaker 08: to some of those municipalities to
04:33:42 Speaker 08: see if there's opportunity. To
04:33:44 Speaker 08: see if there's opportunities, but the
04:33:46 Speaker 08: window is is very very small.
04:33:49 Speaker 08: Okay, so with that, before we
04:33:53 Speaker 08: can go into any further discussion,
04:33:56 Speaker 08: there's been a mover, but we
04:33:59 Speaker 08: need a seconder. So, Councillor McLean,
04:34:00 Speaker 08: you're seconding. Maybe that wording could
04:34:02 Speaker 08: be that could assist more than
04:34:04 Speaker 08: if possible. I don't know. Like,
04:34:06 Speaker 08: if you're figuring it out, it
04:34:07 Speaker 08: would help our lower tiers. If
04:34:08 Speaker 08: you figured it out to, so
04:34:10 Speaker 08: I don't know how that needs
04:34:12 Speaker 08: to be. If possible. It possible,
04:34:14 Speaker 08: or to assist, or or in
04:34:17 Speaker 08: assisting the lower tiers. Maybe you're
04:34:24 Speaker 08: not locked into it, but if
04:34:26 Speaker 02: you're figuring it out, then I'm
04:34:29 Speaker 02: sure we have a council meeting
04:34:31 Speaker 02: next week, and I know I
04:34:33 Speaker 02: had a brief conversation about that.
04:34:34 Speaker 02: If the counties do it, why
04:34:37 Speaker 02: wouldn't we at the lower tiers
04:34:38 Speaker 02: want to do it as well?
04:34:40 Speaker 02: Right? Does that help? Again, through
04:34:42 Speaker 02: you, Warden. So our understanding is
04:34:43 Speaker 02: that if if the local municipality
04:34:47 Speaker 02: wants to put forward a joint
04:34:48 Speaker 02: application or their own application, they
04:34:51 Speaker 02: have a current DC background study
04:34:53 Speaker 02: and a capital plan. Again, it
04:34:56 Speaker 02: would have to be projects
04:34:57 Speaker 02: that are within that that bucket,
04:35:00 Speaker 02: and so so that's where it's
04:35:03 Speaker 02: it's going to take a bit
04:35:05 Speaker 02: of time to be able to
04:35:07 Speaker 02: look at even what's in our
04:35:08 Speaker 02: DC background study and capital plan
04:35:13 Speaker 02: that is eligible, and then local
04:35:15 Speaker 02: municipalities would have to do the
04:35:18 Speaker 02: same, but they would have to
04:35:19 Speaker 02: commit to a reduction as well
04:35:21 Speaker 02: on their DCs, and get that
04:35:24 Speaker 08: council direction in principle to support
04:35:25 Speaker 08: to to move forward with that
04:35:26 Speaker 08: application or a joint application. So,
04:35:28 Speaker 08: again, we wish we had more
04:35:30 Speaker 08: time because we see that there's
04:35:33 Speaker 08: merit, there's opportunity here. And and
04:35:35 Speaker 08: again, if council directs us to
04:35:38 Speaker 08: move forward, we're happy to try
04:35:40 Speaker 08: to do our best to put
04:35:42 Speaker 08: forward an application. But even to
04:35:45 Speaker 08: put forward an application is going
04:35:47 Speaker 08: to be challenging. Just to just
04:35:48 Speaker 08: do it from our county DC.
04:35:50 Speaker 08: Backren City, and our county capital
04:35:53 Speaker 08: plan. So, I agree with what
04:35:55 Speaker 08: Mr. Patterson is saying here, Councilor
04:35:56 Speaker 08: Patterson. Is it could be criticized,
04:35:58 Speaker 08: but even money on the table
04:36:00 Speaker 08: from from our developers and public,
04:36:01 Speaker 08: and you know things are a
04:36:03 Speaker 08: little slower. And I think if
04:36:06 Speaker 08: it does make things happen, that's
04:36:09 Speaker 08: local jobs as well. I think
04:36:10 Speaker 08: it's more time. Is there another?
04:36:12 Speaker 08: Do we need a separate resolution
04:36:14 Speaker 08: that we could pass to say
04:36:16 Speaker 08: could. Solution that we could pass
04:36:18 Speaker 08: to say, could we have more
04:36:20 Speaker 08: time? Is that something else we
04:36:24 Speaker 08: could? What we're hearing is that
04:36:27 Speaker 08: the the provinces is putting forward
04:36:28 Speaker 05: these timelines in order to make
04:36:31 Speaker 05: sure that the TPAs the the
04:36:34 Speaker 05: actual agreements can be can be
04:36:36 Speaker 05: so that they have a short
04:36:38 Speaker 05: window because they have to review
04:36:41 Speaker 05: those applications, approve what's eligible, put
04:36:42 Speaker 05: forward those agreements, and have those
04:36:45 Speaker 05: all completed before. potentially restricted acts
04:36:50 Speaker 05: or lame duck comes into play,
04:36:52 Speaker 05: so that's the window that we're
04:36:55 Speaker 05: all collectively dealing with, and that's
04:36:58 Speaker 05: why there's there there are these
04:37:00 Speaker 05: tight windows of the province before
04:37:03 Speaker 05: it. So I don't I don't
04:37:05 Speaker 05: think the province would be entertaining
04:37:07 Speaker 05: an extension from what we're hearing.
04:37:11 Speaker 05: Okay, and speaking of timing, we
04:37:14 Speaker 05: really don't want to lose quorum
04:37:16 Speaker 05: and only and not achieve a
04:37:19 Speaker 05: decision made on this. I think
04:37:20 Speaker 05: we do need to advise ourselves
04:37:22 Speaker 05: to stay in our lane in
04:37:26 Speaker 05: terms of what the county, what
04:37:28 Speaker 05: we as a county. council can
04:37:31 Speaker 05: can control and put the application
04:37:32 Speaker 05: in, and hope that there's an
04:37:38 Speaker 05: avenue to continue the dialogue to
04:37:40 Speaker 05: work with other, you know, if
04:37:45 Speaker 05: other municipalities, the lower tiers, are
04:37:47 Speaker 05: deciding to put in their own
04:37:48 Speaker 05: application, how things might coordinate. But
04:37:53 Speaker 05: it does seem like to put
04:37:54 Speaker 05: forth the application based on what
04:37:57 Speaker 01: we can do about our own
04:37:58 Speaker 01: development charges would be better
04:38:02 Speaker 01: than just not putting anything at
04:38:04 Speaker 01: all. So sorry, I don't want
04:38:05 Speaker 01: to influence the discussion, but I'm
04:38:08 Speaker 01: just trying. to make sure that
04:38:11 Speaker 03: I'm absolutely clear on the dilemma
04:38:14 Speaker 03: that we're in in terms of
04:38:17 Speaker 03: the timing. So I saw two
04:38:19 Speaker 03: hands go up over here. One
04:38:20 Speaker 03: was Councillor Body, and there was
04:38:22 Speaker 03: somebody else. Just a point of
04:38:24 Speaker 03: order. It seems to me we're
04:38:25 Speaker 03: discussing a motion that isn't a
04:38:28 Speaker 03: motion yet. So I would just
04:38:34 Speaker 03: ask. It has been seconded. I
04:38:36 Speaker 08: would. It has been. Okay. I
04:38:40 Speaker 08: thought we were still discussing what
04:38:43 Speaker 08: the motion was going to be.
04:38:44 Speaker 08: Sorry. No, thank you. Yeah, there
04:38:47 Speaker 08: there was a Councillor McQueen had
04:38:48 Speaker 08: acknowledged he was seconding, but he.
04:38:50 Speaker 08: had that question of clarification, so
04:38:53 Speaker 08: he went straight into the discussion.
04:38:55 Speaker 08: So it has been seconded by
04:38:57 Speaker 08: Councillor McQueen. I see Councillor Eccles'
04:39:01 Speaker 08: hand, and yeah, and then Councillor
04:39:04 Speaker 08: Gregg, is your hand up too?
04:39:07 Speaker 08: Okay, all right. So Councillor Eccles,
04:39:08 Speaker 08: Councillor Gregg, then to Councillor Dobreen.
04:39:10 Speaker 08: Thank you, Madam Warden. Through you,
04:39:12 Speaker 08: to I would say it's to
04:39:13 Speaker 08: staff. One thing about this is
04:39:14 Speaker 08: that the DC charges, if I'm
04:39:17 Speaker 08: understanding this. will be reduced by
04:39:19 Speaker 08: 30 or 50 percent, however we
04:39:21 Speaker 08: put it in, for three years.
04:39:23 Speaker 08: We've talked. There's been some discussion
04:39:25 Speaker 08: and some question. Oh, we're going
04:39:29 Speaker 08: to leave if we don't apply
04:39:31 Speaker 08: for this. We're going to leave
04:39:34 Speaker 08: some money on the table. It's
04:39:35 Speaker 08: a three-year reduction in our DC
04:39:38 Speaker 08: charges. We're scrambling to find a
04:39:40 Speaker 08: few projects that will fit into
04:39:45 Speaker 08: this. Again, it comes. out to
04:39:46 Speaker 08: the same thing as the housing
04:39:47 Speaker 08: was a number of years ago
04:39:49 Speaker 27: when the Ford government said, "Oh,
04:39:50 Speaker 27: and by the way, you're not
04:39:51 Speaker 27: going to charge DC charges anymore."
04:39:53 Speaker 27: This is almost the exact same
04:39:54 Speaker 27: thing. We're going to leave a
04:39:56 Speaker 27: bunch of money on the table.
04:39:56 Speaker 27: All right. I feel, anyways, about
04:39:58 Speaker 27: this. We're giving up, on average,
04:40:01 Speaker 27: six hundred and thirty-one from the
04:40:04 Speaker 27: county development charges, fifty percent of
04:40:08 Speaker 27: them. per year for the next
04:40:10 Speaker 27: three years, wherever many groups go
04:40:13 Speaker 27: forward, the gain. I don't think
04:40:17 Speaker 27: it's going to be ninety million
04:40:18 Speaker 27: dollars for a project that Simcoe
04:40:19 Speaker 27: County may be getting, but the
04:40:22 Speaker 24: numbers just. And we've only got
04:40:27 Speaker 24: an X number of days to
04:40:29 Speaker 24: be able to. I don't know
04:40:31 Speaker 24: whether it just doesn't feel right
04:40:34 Speaker 24: to me, but I'm going to
04:40:37 Speaker 24: leave it at that. Okay, we'll
04:40:38 Speaker 24: go to the C. Okay, we'll
04:40:42 Speaker 24: go to the CAO and then
04:40:45 Speaker 24: to Councillor Gray. Through your warden,
04:40:51 Speaker 01: and again, we wish we had
04:40:52 Speaker 01: more time. The the we've done
04:40:53 Speaker 01: some really high level math just
04:40:57 Speaker 01: to give you a sense of
04:40:59 Speaker 01: what what the numbers might look
04:41:01 Speaker 01: like. We took the last five
04:41:03 Speaker 01: years of what the DCS have
04:41:05 Speaker 01: been collected on residential. That equates
04:41:07 Speaker 01: to a total of twenty five
04:41:10 Speaker 01: twenty five million over last five
04:41:12 Speaker 01: years. So, like on a per
04:41:14 Speaker 01: year basis, that's about five million
04:41:16 Speaker 01: dollars. So. if we reduce by,
04:41:18 Speaker 01: for example, fifty percent, then that's
04:41:20 Speaker 01: two and a half million per
04:41:22 Speaker 01: year, times three-year commitment, as Councilor
04:41:25 Speaker 01: Acros correctly identified, for about seven
04:41:29 Speaker 01: point five million. So, we'd be
04:41:30 Speaker 01: looking to try to bundle projects
04:41:32 Speaker 01: to to to that level. Again,
04:41:36 Speaker 01: we haven't had a chance to
04:41:37 Speaker 01: do that, but that's that's the
04:41:38 Speaker 01: numbers that we'd be looking at
04:41:41 Speaker 01: roughly to in order to offset
04:41:44 Speaker 01: what we might be potentially losing.
04:41:46 Speaker 01: That's that's on. the average. It
04:41:49 Speaker 01: could be higher than that. It
04:41:51 Speaker 01: could be lower than that, depending
04:41:54 Speaker 01: on what we see in terms
04:41:56 Speaker 01: of house starts over next three
04:41:59 Speaker 01: years. But that just gives you
04:42:02 Speaker 01: an indication. So forty percent, that
04:42:05 Speaker 01: equates to about six million. Councillor
04:42:08 Speaker 01: Greg, thank you. And through you,
04:42:11 Speaker 01: quick question. Perhaps I used a
04:42:12 Speaker 01: bad example. I'm concerned about, for
04:42:15 Speaker 01: example, we reconstruct a Great Road
04:42:17 Speaker 01: Five and once. Great Road Five
04:42:19 Speaker 01: and on Sound, there's no housing
04:42:20 Speaker 01: occurs for 15 years on it.
04:42:21 Speaker 01: I think that's a bad investment.
04:42:22 Speaker 01: Doesn't matter who's paying, the taxpayers
04:42:24 Speaker 01: paying for that, and it's a
04:42:25 Speaker 01: waste of money. Gray Road 19,
04:42:27 Speaker 01: however, on the boundary, there's a
04:42:29 Speaker 01: pump station going in to facilitate
04:42:31 Speaker 01: housing. This one with a roundabout
04:42:33 Speaker 01: and four laning. Now, does that
04:42:35 Speaker 01: qualify? Now, is that something
04:42:37 Speaker 01: we're talking about? Councillor Patterson spoke
04:42:39 Speaker 01: about across the county. Is that
04:42:41 Speaker 01: the type of specific item that
04:42:43 Speaker 01: we want to zero in on—it's
04:42:44 Speaker 01: been on the books for years.
04:42:47 Speaker 01: We haven't been able to move
04:42:48 Speaker 01: forward on. Through you, Warren, that's
04:42:51 Speaker 01: one of the projects that, when
04:42:57 Speaker 01: we looked quickly through our DC
3.a Notice of motion provided by Councillor Greig at the May 28th, 2026
The section highlights a background study on the capital plan.
04:42:59 Speaker 01: background study and capital plan, that
04:43:01 Speaker 01: one kind of stood out as
4.a Annual Report and Update from Nuclear Innovation Institute - Jessica
4.a Annual Report and Update from Nuclear Innovation Institute - Jessica was listed on the agenda.
04:43:03 Speaker 01: as a as we think would
04:43:05 Speaker 01: hit the mark in terms of
6 Consent Agenda
Simcoe County is preparing a joint project application with TBM for the boundary road intersection involving Grey and Simcoe Counties.
04:43:07 Speaker 01: eligibility that the province might be
04:43:09 Speaker 01: looking for as a good example
04:43:11 Speaker 01: of a project. That one. That
04:43:15 Speaker 01: one's tricky because that, as you
04:43:16 Speaker 01: mentioned, the publication is is it
04:43:18 Speaker 01: potentially a joint between TBM and
04:43:20 Speaker 01: and county based on, based on
04:43:22 Speaker 01: costs. If the that's also a
04:43:23 Speaker 01: boundary road, from that intersection, so
04:43:24 Speaker 01: it'll be Simcoe County and Grey
04:43:25 Speaker 01: County. So we we both Simcoe
04:43:28 Speaker 01: County committed yesterday to put forward
04:43:31 Speaker 01: an application. We haven't again had
8 That report EDTC-PEDAC-08-26 regarding the Economic
Simcoe County seeks discussion directions from Council.
04:43:32 Speaker 01: a chance to have discussions with
04:43:37 Speaker 01: Simcoe County because we want to
04:43:41 Speaker 01: see the direction obviously from Council
10 Notice of Motion
Councilors debated the Canada-Ontario Development Charges Reduction Program eligibility, noting joint project complexities and provincial funding risks where municipalities might lose 80-85% of charges without guaranteed recovery. An amendment was moved to authorize staff application under Section 26.6B prior to council approval, allowing negotiation on top-priority projects if the province selects fewer than submitted. The motion passed with a call for notices and subsequent adjournment.
04:43:42 Speaker 01: today. We've had other counties though.
04:43:45 Speaker 01: We've had other counties. They'll reach out to us on other boundary road projects as well. So, so it it just it's a lot of moving pieces here, and again, a few days in order to put this this forward together. But that is a great example of a project that we think could meet the eligibility requirements, but takes a little bit to stick handle, even more so because it's joint projects. Okay, we'll go to Councilor Debrine. Thank you, and I will try. to be quick. I echo the the cost, and thank you, Cao Scherzer, for the reduced for three years. You know, and what that equates to, but it also is plus ten percent of the eligible program costs is borne by the county as well. And I think trying to rush something, which is what the province has done, is to you know eliminate. competition. I guess for those who have projects ready, but it whether we pursue it or not, I think it's worthy of letting them know we have some opportunity if we'd had time to collaborate with our neighbors. And and I guess the other the other aspect, there's no guarantee that we're going to get it. And it and maybe it's a little PTSD, but we had our. DCs reduced by to eighty percent, then eighty five, and we're still waiting to be made whole on that. So, yeah, it's it's just trying to rush something as important as this is is worthy of letting them know that that you know more time we might have been able to take advantage of this. Okay, we also have. the option of submitting the application, and if we actually do get accepted, then we can negotiate perhaps additional information, build it out. But then at least our foot's in the door, so that's the other consideration. Councillor Keamy, thank you, Warden Matrasos, and just for further clarification, CALSHA had mentioned a rough calculation of 7.5 million in DCs over the three years. So if we put an application in and it comes back. and offers us, for argument's sake, five million. I mean, are we stuck, or can we revert back? We can negotiate or back out through you, Warden. So this is where, and maybe there's there's potentially some if there's friendly amendments to consider for the motion where it be subject to receipt of that funding. That agreement would have to come back to County Council for approval prior. to, which again would have to be the first meeting in August at the latest, for this council to approve or not. So if if we apply, we get notification that we are we were successful. They have to put forward a TPA of an agreement in very short order, and then we'd have to bring that back to council. Council can then make the final decision of yes or no. Tricky to back out once once you probably. have applied and and to to move forward, but there's still that opportunity for council to not support the funding agreement, and and we would then have to notify the province of that, how they deal with that in terms of those funds being allocated to those projects, that's the tricky part, that's the potential risk. Sorry, just very briefly, in addition to what the CEO said, our understanding is we can put forward up. to five infrastructure projects, but we have to prioritize those. So, in theory, we put we put forward three, and the province might only pick the top one, or they might only pick two. So, we could be in a situation, as the CEO said, to kind of negotiate there. And we may find that the competitive playing field is well, or very not competitive, if so many municipalities are in the same timing predicament. So, okay, Councillor McLean. Very quickly, it was on a report earlier on today for the DC charges that we collected from 2021 to 2025. 2021, we had 876 builds of single and semi-detached. Last year was 247. There is a sliding scale that our building is down, so that gives that boost. Also, the last two years is 261 and 247 compared 2021 and 22 of 876 and 589. So we know building. is down. Okay. So I it was moved and seconded some time ago, but it was not read out for recording purposes. So we have the amendment to the main motion that the motion be amended to remove for information and insert the following clauses: that stop be directed to apply the Canada to the Canada Ontario Development Charge Reduction Program for a fifty percent reduction to the counties. To the county's residential development charges, with the county covering 10% of the eligible program costs, and that staff be authorized to proceed prior to the county council approval, as per Section 26.6B of the Procedural Bylaw 513422. It has been moved and seconded. We have had discussion on this amendment. I see no further hands. All those in favor? Okay. So that motion is carried. So now we're back to the main motion, and the main motion. reads just as I have articulated, but references at the beginning that staff PBR CW twenty four twenty six regarding the Canada Ontario Development Charges Reduction Program be received, plus the amendment I just read out. Okay, so we have it there. And any further discussion on the main motion? All right, all those in favor? Okay, that is actually all carried, Madam. Very. Madam Burke, thank you. All right, thank you very much, Director Taylor, and to the CAO for your input on that. So we now have closed session matters that we need to go in for. It's recommended that committee of the whole does now go into closed session pursuant to section two thirty nine two of the Municipal Act two thousand and one as amended to discuss number one security of the property of the municipality or local board, and it's regarding property security, and number two personal matters about an identifiable individual, including municipal or local. board employees, and this is with regards to personal information, may ask for a move and a second. Move by Councillor Mackie, seconded by Councillor Kieveny. All those in favor? I'm going into closed, and that motion is carried. Okay. All right. So we have come out of closed, and I can report that committee. The whole proceeded into closed session for purposes of discussing security or property of the municipality or local board, and Your local board, and personal matters about an identifiable individual, including municipal or local board employees. I'm going to say that we're due to the timing, we're going to need to defer the other business of the FCM conference updates. We'll just simply add that to the next agenda. But I do need to take a moment. Item number ten. Put out a call for notices of motion. Any notices of motion? Not seen any. I'll look for a motion to adjourn. Whoa. Moved by Councillor Patterson, seconded by Councillor McQueen. Lots of robust support for that motion. All those in favour, and we are carried. Thank you.
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