Grey County Committee Meeting Transcript — September 3, 2025

00:03:40 Speaker 03: to have quorum this morning. Welcome

00:03:41 Speaker 03: to the Gray County Ag Advisory

00:03:44 Speaker 03: Committee meeting for September third, twenty

00:03:46 Speaker 03: twenty-five. It was in June since

00:03:47 Speaker 03: we last met, so I hope

00:03:48 Speaker 03: you've had a great summer since

00:03:50 Speaker 03: then. I've had a great summer

00:03:51 Speaker 03: since then. Thanks for taking the

00:03:53 Speaker 03: time to attend today. It's great

00:03:54 Speaker 03: to have quorum, as I already

00:03:55 Speaker 03: said, and welcome to anyone watching

00:03:57 Speaker 04: from home as well. I'd like

00:04:00 Speaker 04: to call this meeting to order

00:04:02 Speaker 04: at 9:02 a.m. Any declarations of

00:04:04 Speaker 04: interest for today's meeting? If so,

00:04:08 Speaker 04: please raise your hand. Seeing none.

00:04:09 Speaker 04: If any should arise during the

00:04:11 Speaker 04: course of the meeting, please make

00:04:12 Speaker 04: us aware of them at that

00:04:15 Speaker 04: time. We have no delegations this

00:04:17 Speaker 04: morning. We have one item for

00:04:20 Speaker 04: direction or discussion. That. is PDR

00:04:24 Speaker 04: AAC fifty six twenty five Wildlife

00:04:26 Speaker 04: Manager Bylaw Update is Scott presenting

00:04:29 Speaker 04: this or is Sarah presenting this?

00:04:32 Speaker 04: Sarah, welcome. Are you ready to

00:04:34 Speaker 04: roll? I'll do my best. Thank

00:04:35 Speaker 04: you so much. Just bear with

00:04:37 Speaker 04: me here. I'll get my screen

00:04:47 Speaker 04: up here for you, everyone. Okay.

00:04:53 Speaker 04: Can everybody? see that? Okay, perfect.

00:04:54 Speaker 04: So, good morning, everybody. Thank you,

00:04:56 Speaker 04: Chair, for that introduction. For those

00:04:58 Speaker 04: of you that don't know me,

00:04:59 Speaker 04: but I think we all have

00:05:01 Speaker 04: met at one point or another.

00:05:02 Speaker 04: My name is Sarah Johnson. I

00:05:04 Speaker 04: am the trails and forestry coordinator,

00:05:06 Speaker 04: but I also get to work

00:05:08 Speaker 04: with a portfolio of what we

00:05:11 Speaker 04: call in planning agriculture, which is

00:05:13 Speaker 04: a mere speck of what you

00:05:15 Speaker 05: what you guys all deal with

00:05:17 Speaker 05: on a daily. but what that

00:05:20 Speaker 05: does cover is our wildlife management

00:05:24 Speaker 05: bylaws, so our our coyote and

00:05:27 Speaker 05: our beaver nuisance bylaws. So back

00:05:30 Speaker 05: earlier this year, we were directed

00:05:33 Speaker 05: by council to review these documents

00:05:35 Speaker 05: as they had been highlighted by

00:05:37 Speaker 05: some individuals that they were antiquated

00:05:41 Speaker 05: and they needed some updates, and

00:05:42 Speaker 05: so council had directed staff to

00:05:44 Speaker 05: do a thorough review of these.

00:05:47 Speaker 05: we have started that process. We

00:05:51 Speaker 05: did previously meet with the committee

00:05:52 Speaker 05: to discuss both the wildlife management

00:05:54 Speaker 05: as well as the forestry management

00:05:56 Speaker 05: bylaw, but today it's just wildlife

00:05:59 Speaker 05: management. And so we just wanted

00:06:01 Speaker 05: to have a discussion with the

00:06:04 Speaker 05: committee this morning as to what

00:06:06 Speaker 05: we've heard so far, because we

00:06:10 Speaker 05: have had some public process, and

00:06:11 Speaker 05: that process for those that may

00:06:13 Speaker 05: have attended those meetings. or have

00:06:17 Speaker 05: watched online. May have only been

00:06:20 Speaker 05: appeared to have been one-sided, but

00:06:23 Speaker 05: we we have heard from from

00:06:26 Speaker 05: both sides of of the perspective.

00:06:28 Speaker 05: So, I'm gonna jump right in

00:06:29 Speaker 05: here. This will let me. So

00:06:32 Speaker 05: we did hold a public workshop

00:06:34 Speaker 05: on April 23rd at Graye Services.

00:06:36 Speaker 05: Thank you again, Laurie, for hosting

00:06:38 Speaker 05: that meeting. And then we also

00:06:40 Speaker 05: had a more formal public meeting

00:06:44 Speaker 05: on May the 8th. On May

00:06:47 Speaker 05: the eighth, specifically regarding the the

00:06:49 Speaker 05: beavers and the coyote bylaw, and

00:06:50 Speaker 05: those are two separate bylaws. I'm

00:06:52 Speaker 05: just melding them into one in

00:06:54 Speaker 05: these comments that we've highlighted in

00:06:55 Speaker 05: my report as well as in

00:06:57 Speaker 05: this presentation, are kind of putting

00:06:58 Speaker 05: them together. But we will separate

00:07:01 Speaker 05: them when we are discussing them.

00:07:03 Speaker 05: We also had a commenting for

00:07:05 Speaker 05: written comments. We had a deadline

00:07:08 Speaker 05: of May thirtieth of this year,

00:07:11 Speaker 05: so we have received a fair

00:07:12 Speaker 05: few comments. for both of the

00:07:14 Speaker 05: both in support and both for

00:07:16 Speaker 05: the support of the discontinuation of

00:07:21 Speaker 05: the programme. So we wanted to

00:07:22 Speaker 05: highlight those. I think for this

00:07:24 Speaker 05: audience, we probably know a lot

00:07:27 Speaker 05: of why there is support for

00:07:28 Speaker 05: these programmemes. A lot of what

00:07:29 Speaker 05: we heard is that there still

00:07:32 Speaker 05: needs to be an incentive and

00:07:38 Speaker 05: there needs to be fair compensation

00:07:42 Speaker 05: to trap and control animal populations.

00:07:44 Speaker 05: And as well as using a

00:07:49 Speaker 05: programme like a bounty programme, it

00:07:52 Speaker 05: provides a licenced trapper

00:07:59 Speaker 05: to be administering to be trapping

00:08:02 Speaker 05: the animals. It also helps

00:08:07 Speaker 05: to reduce overpopulation. Sorry, overpopulation issues,

00:08:09 Speaker 05: which includes starving, starvation, and disease,

00:08:13 Speaker 05: overpopulation. will cause those unnecessary costs

00:08:16 Speaker 05: to landowners and taxpayers. We did

00:08:19 Speaker 05: also hear anecdotal evidence that suggested

00:08:22 Speaker 05: that nuisance animal populations do remain

00:08:25 Speaker 05: at high levels. We also had

00:08:28 Speaker 05: some statistics. I believe it was

00:08:30 Speaker 05: from the sheep farmers of Ontario

00:08:33 Speaker 05: that Grey County was number one

00:08:36 Speaker 05: in the province for predation, if

00:08:37 Speaker 05: not in 2023 and 2024 as

00:08:40 Speaker 05: well. Three and 2024 as well,

00:08:42 Speaker 05: so we are looking. It is

00:08:43 Speaker 05: a significant problem in Gray County.

00:08:46 Speaker 05: There is obviously significant impact on

00:08:49 Speaker 05: land and infrastructure from flooding. This

00:08:51 Speaker 05: is obviously with regards to the

00:08:54 Speaker 05: Beaver bylaw. There are impacts on

00:08:58 Speaker 05: both financial, emotional, and mental health

00:09:01 Speaker 05: of farmers for the loss of

00:09:03 Speaker 05: livestock due to predation. Landowners need

00:09:04 Speaker 05: to be able to protect their

00:09:05 Speaker 05: livestock, and there has to and

00:09:07 Speaker 05: and also. Past and and also

00:09:09 Speaker 05: that we also heard that there

00:09:12 Speaker 05: has been an increase in pet

00:09:16 Speaker 05: attacks and it's only a matter

00:09:19 Speaker 05: of time before a child or

00:09:23 Speaker 05: a human becomes a victim to

00:09:27 Speaker 05: some of these animals. Other things

00:09:28 Speaker 05: that we heard regarding the bylaws

00:09:29 Speaker 05: themselves in support of it is

00:09:31 Speaker 05: obviously specifically that the the compensation

00:09:36 Speaker 05: needs to be increased. That was

00:09:40 Speaker 05: one of the big things that

00:09:41 Speaker 05: we heard from those. hunters and

00:09:46 Speaker 05: trappers, we also heard that paperwork

00:09:50 Speaker 05: to submit is quite onerous, and

00:09:54 Speaker 05: so we needed to streamline that

00:09:58 Speaker 05: if possible. We also heard specifically

00:10:00 Speaker 05: with regards to the coyote bylaw,

00:10:01 Speaker 05: the need for the proof of

00:10:04 Speaker 05: a kill to implement the bylaw

00:10:07 Speaker 05: or to qualify for the bounty

00:10:09 Speaker 05: because. some of the attacks that

00:10:12 Speaker 05: are occurring right now, especially with

00:10:14 Speaker 05: those smaller livestock like lamb or

00:10:16 Speaker 05: or chickens or those sorts of

00:10:17 Speaker 05: things, there's not always anything left

00:10:20 Speaker 05: behind to to prove that there

00:10:24 Speaker 05: was a kill. So that's something

00:10:28 Speaker 05: that we want to look into

00:10:31 Speaker 05: as well. I'm just kind of

00:10:36 Speaker 05: want to make sure there was

00:10:41 Speaker 05: comments about the programme streamlining with

00:10:43 Speaker 05: neighbouring counties. because obviously livestock or

00:10:46 Speaker 05: wildlife does not know boundaries, municipal

00:10:48 Speaker 05: boundaries, which obviously that makes sense.

00:10:51 Speaker 05: And then we also heard that

00:10:53 Speaker 05: there were some municipalities who are

00:10:56 Speaker 05: the ones that sign off on

00:10:58 Speaker 05: these for the county and receive

00:10:59 Speaker 05: the the ears or the tails.

00:11:01 Speaker 05: Some of those are not actually

00:11:03 Speaker 05: physically receiving them; they're just letting.

00:11:05 Speaker 05: the the trapper or the hunter

00:11:10 Speaker 05: take them back with them, so

00:11:12 Speaker 05: that could pose some problems if

00:11:13 Speaker 05: there if there wasn't honesty in

00:11:15 Speaker 05: that process. And then there was

00:11:16 Speaker 05: there was the comment that obviously

00:11:20 Speaker 05: this has been a long time

00:11:21 Speaker 05: since we have reviewed this bylaw,

00:11:23 Speaker 05: and there needs to be regular

00:11:27 Speaker 05: review of it, and that needs

00:11:31 Speaker 05: to involve groups like the the

00:11:32 Speaker 05: Great Bruce Trappers, the Ministry of

00:11:34 Speaker 05: Agriculture, the MNRF, the local ag.

00:11:35 Speaker 05: The local agricultural community, and so

00:11:38 Speaker 05: we just wanted to—they just wanted

00:11:39 Speaker 05: those things to be highlighted, and

00:11:42 Speaker 05: we wanted to consider those when

00:11:45 Speaker 05: we are doing this review process.

00:11:47 Speaker 05: So those were some of the

00:11:49 Speaker 05: main things that we heard when

00:11:51 Speaker 05: it came to the support of

00:11:53 Speaker 05: keeping these programmemes in place. On

00:11:55 Speaker 05: the other side of things, and

00:11:58 Speaker 05: I think I had the breakdown

00:11:59 Speaker 05: in my report. Yes, we so

00:12:02 Speaker 05: we had when it came to.

00:12:06 Speaker 05: comments, we had about 58% of

00:12:11 Speaker 05: the comments were in support of

00:12:12 Speaker 05: keeping the programme in place, and

00:12:14 Speaker 05: there was 42% not wanting the

00:12:15 Speaker 05: bylaws to be in in place

00:12:18 Speaker 05: anymore and supported their repeal. So,

00:12:21 Speaker 05: just to kind of give an

00:12:26 Speaker 05: idea of of what we're talking

00:12:29 Speaker 05: about, it wasn't a very skewed.

00:12:30 Speaker 05: There was almost a 50-50 breakdown

00:12:32 Speaker 05: here of of comments. So, those

00:12:33 Speaker 05: in support. of of removing the

00:12:34 Speaker 05: bylaws or or discontinuing the bylaws

00:12:35 Speaker 05: noted that a lot of the

00:12:39 Speaker 05: things that we were that was

00:12:40 Speaker 05: flagged for our review was that

00:12:43 Speaker 05: there is a lot of research

00:12:45 Speaker 05: available that when we put a

00:12:51 Speaker 05: strain on a species, they actually

00:12:54 Speaker 05: increase in numbers through higher birth

00:12:57 Speaker 05: rates, and therefore the bounty programme

00:12:59 Speaker 05: could actually be having the opposite

00:13:03 Speaker 05: effect on controlling populations. The other

00:13:07 Speaker 05: thing is. nuisance is a very

00:13:10 Speaker 05: subjective term, and we heard this

00:13:14 Speaker 05: specifically with well with both of

00:13:16 Speaker 05: the bylaws, but especially with the

00:13:19 Speaker 05: beaver bylaw, because as our the

00:13:24 Speaker 05: next point says, coexistence can be

00:13:28 Speaker 05: done with minimal encounters and non-lethal

00:13:30 Speaker 05: methods. So we would so those

00:13:33 Speaker 05: were things that were flagged for

00:13:35 Speaker 05: us. By removing culling or relocation,

00:13:36 Speaker 05: it it will disrupt the natural

00:13:39 Speaker 05: habitat. Oh, sorry, removal by culling

00:13:42 Speaker 05: or relocation will disrupt the natural

00:13:46 Speaker 05: habitat. And there are long term,

00:13:49 Speaker 05: sustainable, humane, and non lethal solutions

00:13:52 Speaker 05: that should be considered first before

00:13:55 Speaker 05: the lethal ones. There were offer

00:13:57 Speaker 05: or there was information provided regarding

00:13:59 Speaker 05: such things as beaver baffles and.

00:14:01 Speaker 05: fencing for protection of infrastructure, land,

00:14:03 Speaker 05: and livestock, the removal. One of

00:14:05 Speaker 05: the points that was flagged by

00:14:08 Speaker 05: more than one person, or more

00:14:10 Speaker 05: than one comment that we received,

00:14:12 Speaker 05: was that the removal of body

00:14:15 Speaker 05: parts for the purposes of claiming

00:14:19 Speaker 05: a bounty is is quite a

00:14:21 Speaker 05: barbaric practice, and and as such,

00:14:22 Speaker 05: some of the comments proceeded to

00:14:23 Speaker 05: go on and say that the

00:14:26 Speaker 05: programme was quite archaic and quite

00:14:29 Speaker 05: antiquated. So sorry, I'm just trying

00:14:34 Speaker 05: to navigate my report to make

00:14:37 Speaker 05: sure I can get any of

00:14:39 Speaker 05: those extra comments as well. Other

00:14:44 Speaker 05: things that we heard was from

00:14:45 Speaker 05: both sides was that education was

00:14:47 Speaker 05: key. We need to educate ourselves

00:14:51 Speaker 05: specifically as a county with regards

00:14:54 Speaker 05: to what is available on from

00:14:56 Speaker 05: both perspectives. You know who is

00:14:58 Speaker 05: doing. what? Is this a pro

00:15:01 Speaker 05: programme that is sustainable? Is there

00:15:04 Speaker 05: other options? Also, the education of

00:15:07 Speaker 05: the public, and you know why

00:15:11 Speaker 05: these bylaws are in existence, and

00:15:16 Speaker 05: should they continue on? You know

00:15:19 Speaker 05: why we do them, and how

00:15:23 Speaker 05: we are using the best practices

00:15:26 Speaker 05: possible. The other thing that was

00:15:29 Speaker 05: flagged as as an alternative to.

00:15:32 Speaker 05: a lethal, a lethal method of

00:15:35 Speaker 05: management was the guardian livestock dogs,

00:15:37 Speaker 05: and specifically the need to get

00:15:41 Speaker 05: the support from the municipalities that

00:15:44 Speaker 05: have those bylaws, dog bylaws in

00:15:48 Speaker 05: particular, that are in place to

00:15:51 Speaker 05: accommodate the need for a working

00:15:52 Speaker 05: dog, and so to have some

00:15:56 Speaker 05: relief from number restrictions. as well

00:16:02 Speaker 05: as fees for owning dogs for

00:16:06 Speaker 05: that purpose. The obviously the one

00:16:08 Speaker 05: of the strong comments that we

00:16:10 Speaker 05: heard from those in opposition of

00:16:16 Speaker 05: the bylaw being updated was to

00:16:18 Speaker 05: propose non-lethal methods first and foremost,

00:16:20 Speaker 05: and the that bylaws that the

00:16:22 Speaker 05: bylaws should they be updated should

00:16:25 Speaker 05: not restrict. a landowner from protecting

00:16:29 Speaker 05: their property. So this is a

00:16:30 Speaker 05: a high level summary of of

00:16:33 Speaker 05: all the comments that we heard,

00:16:36 Speaker 05: but it's a pretty round rounded

00:16:38 Speaker 05: summary of of all those individuals

00:16:39 Speaker 05: that did provide comments. So we

00:16:43 Speaker 05: wanted to provide those obviously to

00:16:44 Speaker 05: the agricultural advisory committee and and

00:16:46 Speaker 05: share any additional feedback that we

00:16:47 Speaker 05: had. We are going we are

00:16:50 Speaker 05: planning as staff, to provide a

00:16:53 Speaker 05: similar update to County Council, and

00:16:55 Speaker 05: obviously we are still in the

00:16:57 Speaker 05: process of following up on some

00:17:00 Speaker 05: of our comments that we have

00:17:02 Speaker 05: received, and and a request for

00:17:05 Speaker 05: for Indigenous consultation as well. We,

00:17:11 Speaker 05: at this point, don't have any

00:17:14 Speaker 05: timeline as to when a final

00:17:16 Speaker 05: recommendation is going to be made,

00:17:18 Speaker 05: but this is kind of where

00:17:21 Speaker 05: we're at with in in this

00:17:24 Speaker 05: stage of the process. so I

00:17:26 Speaker 05: just so basically we just wanted

00:17:28 Speaker 05: to provide the report with the

00:17:31 Speaker 05: update, and we wanted to consider

00:17:34 Speaker 05: any further feedback that you may

00:17:35 Speaker 05: have based on this new information.

00:17:37 Speaker 05: So that's all I had within

00:17:39 Speaker 05: my presentation, but I'm hoping that

00:17:42 Speaker 05: there could be a pretty good

00:17:43 Speaker 05: conversation as a result. So thank

00:17:45 Speaker 05: you. Thanks so much, Sarah. Before

00:17:47 Speaker 05: we move. on to discussion, what

00:17:48 Speaker 05: you see here, or what you

00:17:50 Speaker 04: did just see, that report CDR

00:17:53 Speaker 04: AAC fifty six twenty five be

00:17:55 Speaker 04: received, and that staff consider any

00:17:56 Speaker 04: further feedback received from the Agricultural

00:17:58 Speaker 04: Advisory Committee with respect to the

00:18:00 Speaker 04: county's nuisance beaver and coyote wolf

00:18:03 Speaker 04: bylaw reviews. That is a motion

00:18:06 Speaker 04: proposed. It's on your agenda. Could

00:18:07 Speaker 04: someone move that motion, please? Before

00:18:09 Speaker 04: we lead into discussion, I see

00:18:11 Speaker 04: Tom Hutchinson's name or name up,

00:18:12 Speaker 04: and Brenda, seconder. Wonderful. So now

00:18:15 Speaker 04: is our opportunity to. to discuss

00:18:24 Speaker 04: this fulsomely. We do have quorum

00:18:26 Speaker 04: today, and we have lots of

00:18:28 Speaker 03: time, so let's tackle this subject

00:18:31 Speaker 03: matter and make sure we dig

00:18:34 Speaker 03: into all the points. Just raise

00:18:37 Speaker 03: your hand, and let's roll. Simon,

00:18:39 Speaker 03: please. Thank you, Laurie. And I

00:18:45 Speaker 03: was not at the meeting during

00:18:49 Speaker 03: Markdale, to my regret, but I

00:18:53 Speaker 03: I generally like. the presentation, all

00:18:55 Speaker 03: the stuff I hear, I think

00:18:59 Speaker 03: the one thing we never seem

00:19:01 Speaker 03: to get enough of is education

00:19:03 Speaker 03: of everybody. And for what I

00:19:08 Speaker 03: hear, people with goats or small

00:19:09 Speaker 03: ruminating animals, they are those dogs.

00:19:14 Speaker 03: They seem to be increasingly becoming

00:19:16 Speaker 03: popular. So that may just be

00:19:17 Speaker 03: something. that will help us out

00:19:18 Speaker 03: a little bit. I myself, for

00:19:20 Speaker 03: whatever reason, I am not really

00:19:22 Speaker 03: a great dog lover, but there

00:19:23 Speaker 03: might be some drawbacks on that

00:19:25 Speaker 03: aspect of it. But generally, like

00:19:28 Speaker 03: from what I have seen at

00:19:32 Speaker 02: Farmers' Week, there when those dogs

00:19:43 Speaker 02: were, they are they were extremely

00:19:45 Speaker 02: well behaved and seem to know

00:19:48 Speaker 02: what to do. So, anyway, that's

00:19:50 Speaker 02: just a couple my couple cents

00:19:54 Speaker 02: worth of observation. Thank you, Simon.

00:19:56 Speaker 06: Someone else. Scott, please. I think

00:19:59 Speaker 06: maybe just to thank you, Chair

00:20:01 Speaker 06: Smith, just to help spur discussion.

00:20:03 Speaker 06: Planning staff are struggling on this

00:20:08 Speaker 06: one. Certainly, we heard very passionate

00:20:11 Speaker 06: information from both trappers and the

00:20:13 Speaker 06: agricultural community with respect to the.

00:20:15 Speaker 06: necessity of these programmemes, but we

00:20:16 Speaker 06: also, in a less public venue,

00:20:19 Speaker 06: heard similar pleas and and and

00:20:20 Speaker 06: evidence from from sort of the

00:20:23 Speaker 06: non-farm community about you know other,

00:20:24 Speaker 06: as Sarah said, non-lethal methods, and

00:20:27 Speaker 06: certainly with respect to beavers, it

00:20:29 Speaker 06: was it was beaver baffles and

00:20:31 Speaker 06: and and other such things, but

00:20:33 Speaker 06: more so on the the coyote

00:20:35 Speaker 06: and wolf programme, it was things

00:20:38 Speaker 06: like education, it was things like

00:20:41 Speaker 06: fencing and and very. And and

00:20:42 Speaker 06: various other options there, the guard

00:20:43 Speaker 06: dogs and and the dog bylaws,

00:20:45 Speaker 06: as Sarah's mentioned, and and so,

00:20:47 Speaker 06: you know, from a staff perspective,

00:20:49 Speaker 06: we don't have one clear path

00:20:52 Speaker 06: forward here just yet. We're trying

00:20:53 Speaker 06: to consider all options. With respect

00:20:55 Speaker 06: to some of the comments about,

00:20:57 Speaker 06: you know, the county shouldn't be

00:21:00 Speaker 06: restricting anyone from protecting their livestock

00:21:03 Speaker 06: or their property in that regard.

00:21:04 Speaker 06: Whether the bylaws go forward in

00:21:05 Speaker 06: in a similar form to the

00:21:08 Speaker 06: current form or not, the county

00:21:10 Speaker 06: is is not doing that. They

00:21:12 Speaker 06: would. still have the ability to

00:21:15 Speaker 06: to trap on their properties and

00:21:16 Speaker 06: and and fence and everything else.

00:21:17 Speaker 06: It's more so what is the

00:21:21 Speaker 06: county's role here, and certainly there

00:21:23 Speaker 06: might be a role in education

00:21:26 Speaker 06: and working with our member municipalities

00:21:28 Speaker 06: to look at our own processes,

00:21:31 Speaker 06: including some municipal dog bylaws. But

00:21:33 Speaker 06: I guess one of the matters

00:21:34 Speaker 06: we really want to try to

00:21:36 Speaker 06: get to the heart of is:

00:21:38 Speaker 06: Are the the bylaws having any

00:21:40 Speaker 06: counter effects with respect to that

00:21:42 Speaker 06: that increasing population, as Sarah said,

00:21:44 Speaker 06: anecdotally we've heard lots that that

00:21:46 Speaker 06: coyotes are as prevalent or more

00:21:47 Speaker 06: prevalent than ever. We've had the

00:21:49 Speaker 06: bylaws in place for a number

00:21:54 Speaker 06: of years now. Are there other

00:21:58 Speaker 07: approaches we should be considering here?

00:22:03 Speaker 07: And because members of this committee

00:22:04 Speaker 07: have such lived experience, we're really

00:22:07 Speaker 07: hoping to tap into your knowledge

00:22:08 Speaker 07: here for that. So I'll stop

00:22:09 Speaker 07: rambling now and turn it back

00:22:13 Speaker 07: to the chair. Thank you. Thanks,

00:22:15 Speaker 07: Scott. Valid points, Blair. Please. Just

00:22:17 Speaker 07: a few comments. The comment about

00:22:21 Speaker 07: relocating animals that are nuisance—I start

00:22:24 Speaker 07: to squirm when I hear about

00:22:27 Speaker 07: that. So I don't think there's

00:22:28 Speaker 07: going to be many people in

00:22:29 Speaker 07: the agricultural community that will see

00:22:32 Speaker 07: that as a positive. We already

00:22:34 Speaker 07: have people that drop off pets

00:22:39 Speaker 07: and drop off surplus animals, and

00:22:41 Speaker 07: it's it's always a problem. One

00:22:44 Speaker 07: comment would be potentially maybe instead

00:22:46 Speaker 07: of the you know having to

00:22:50 Speaker 07: prove your kill with a tail

00:22:53 Speaker 07: or something, is there some way

00:22:54 Speaker 07: to have a geo reference photo

00:22:55 Speaker 07: that is proof of kill to

00:22:58 Speaker 07: modernize this process? And then I

00:23:01 Speaker 07: think the other comment would be

00:23:02 Speaker 07: that I mean, personally speaking, most

00:23:04 Speaker 07: farmers I don't think are really

00:23:06 Speaker 07: like this whole. Bylaw doesn't really.

00:23:07 Speaker 07: I mean, they're already shooting coyotes,

00:23:08 Speaker 07: basically, right? So whether or not

00:23:09 Speaker 07: there's a bylaw, I don't think

00:23:13 Speaker 07: really impacts the farmers' behaviour. I

00:23:20 Speaker 07: think that the our issue has

00:23:23 Speaker 07: been more of a lack of

00:23:25 Speaker 07: people that want to trap beavers.

00:23:27 Speaker 07: You know, we have beavers, but

00:23:28 Speaker 08: nobody wants to come do it,

00:23:30 Speaker 08: right? Regardless of how much money

00:23:34 Speaker 08: there is. So I think it's

00:23:36 Speaker 08: more that perspective than actually being

00:23:37 Speaker 08: an issue. Thank you, Blair. Brenda,

00:23:39 Speaker 08: as a sheep farmer, yeah, we've

00:23:41 Speaker 08: actually had some coyote kills this

00:23:42 Speaker 08: year, including with no carcasses, so

00:23:43 Speaker 08: we could not prove them to

00:23:45 Speaker 08: the livestock assessor. We had one

00:23:48 Speaker 08: we could. I guess to address

00:23:49 Speaker 08: what Scott's saying about what what

00:23:52 Speaker 08: way is there for it? Is

00:23:54 Speaker 08: it an educational role? Is it

00:23:56 Speaker 08: whatever? I do think education is

00:23:57 Speaker 08: a large part of it. I

00:24:00 Speaker 08: mean, the reason why we have

00:24:02 Speaker 08: these so-called nuisance animals, whether they

00:24:04 Speaker 08: be beavers or coyotes. slash wolves

00:24:06 Speaker 08: is due to loss of habitat,

00:24:08 Speaker 08: right? Like, as we develop more

00:24:12 Speaker 08: areas of Gray and Bruce County,

00:24:15 Speaker 08: Gray Gray County in particular for

00:24:16 Speaker 08: us, and so on. Like this,

00:24:18 Speaker 08: this pressure is going to continue.

00:24:21 Speaker 08: We already know that coyotes actually

00:24:23 Speaker 08: are supremely well adapted for becoming

00:24:25 Speaker 08: quite urban, as we hear from

00:24:26 Speaker 08: some of the crazy stories in

00:24:27 Speaker 08: Toronto. So we're not, yeah. I

00:24:29 Speaker 08: think that that until until at

00:24:31 Speaker 08: That until until as a species

00:24:33 Speaker 08: we figure out how to live

00:24:34 Speaker 08: better and and making space for

00:24:36 Speaker 08: we're always going to have these

00:24:37 Speaker 08: interactions and like Scott was saying

00:24:41 Speaker 08: like the numbers haven't come down

00:24:43 Speaker 08: despite having these bylaws in place

00:24:45 Speaker 08: so Scott I can't I can't

00:24:47 Speaker 08: say specifically oh get rid of

00:24:48 Speaker 08: the bylaw because they're not useful

00:24:50 Speaker 08: but I do think all around

00:24:51 Speaker 08: there needs to be more education

00:24:52 Speaker 08: about how essentially the reason why

00:24:54 Speaker 08: we have this problem is due

00:24:55 Speaker 08: to habitat loss for these animals

00:24:56 Speaker 08: that doesn't really solve anything for

00:24:58 Speaker 08: anyone but. I think that in

00:25:01 Speaker 08: terms of on the agricultural community

00:25:03 Speaker 08: side, yes, of course we do

00:25:05 Speaker 08: shoot the nuisance animal if we

00:25:08 Speaker 08: can. It is also very hard

00:25:10 Speaker 08: to tell if you shot the

00:25:11 Speaker 08: coyote who got your animal or

00:25:13 Speaker 08: some other one that never wanted

00:25:14 Speaker 08: to eat your animal, right? So,

00:25:18 Speaker 08: you know, none of these are

00:25:20 Speaker 08: perfect things. I do think that

00:25:21 Speaker 08: this idea of being able to

00:25:22 Speaker 08: protect livestock better would be great,

00:25:25 Speaker 08: but again, guardian livestock animals are

00:25:27 Speaker 08: not like. I mean, they're hit

00:25:28 Speaker 08: and miss when you get a

00:25:29 Speaker 08: puppy or. They're hit and miss

00:25:30 Speaker 08: when you get a puppy, right?

00:25:32 Speaker 08: You need like three. I think

00:25:34 Speaker 08: that some of those ideas around

00:25:35 Speaker 08: not having them licenced or like

00:25:36 Speaker 08: like let's like I I think

00:25:38 Speaker 08: Lori can back me up

00:25:40 Speaker 08: on this. If you want to

00:25:42 Speaker 08: have livestock guardian dogs keep a

00:25:45 Speaker 08: flock fairly safe, you need at

00:25:47 Speaker 08: least three. So I can't remember

00:25:48 Speaker 08: what the bylaw is in my

00:25:49 Speaker 08: area, Chatsworth. But I think you're

00:25:50 Speaker 08: already getting close to the maximum

00:25:53 Speaker 08: number of animals you're allowed to

00:25:56 Speaker 08: have, and so on. So I

00:25:58 Speaker 08: think maybe exploring some of those

00:25:59 Speaker 08: options just to make it easier

00:26:02 Speaker 08: to to give direction to the

00:26:03 Speaker 08: municipality. To give direction to the

00:26:05 Speaker 08: municipalities as to like you know

00:26:06 Speaker 08: different types of livestock animals would

00:26:08 Speaker 08: just would help the agricultural community

00:26:09 Speaker 08: there in terms of fencing or

00:26:11 Speaker 08: whatever. Just putting up haywire is

00:26:13 Speaker 08: not going to keep your critters

00:26:16 Speaker 08: out either. You really need actually

00:26:17 Speaker 08: quite strong electric fencing that never

00:26:19 Speaker 08: goes off. Which I mean though

00:26:20 Speaker 08: that's a very expensive thing. I'm

00:26:23 Speaker 08: not sure that the county can

00:26:25 Speaker 08: can can fund that right. That's

00:26:27 Speaker 08: a little bit crazy. Anyway, those

00:26:29 Speaker 08: are my two cents on that

00:26:31 Speaker 08: side. I almost wonder too if

00:26:33 Speaker 08: in this whole. discussion about nuisance

00:26:35 Speaker 08: animals, I know that they're all

00:26:37 Speaker 08: sort of grouped together as like

00:26:39 Speaker 08: beavers and coyotes and wolves in

00:26:40 Speaker 08: the same place. But I do

00:26:42 Speaker 08: feel like maybe the public views

00:26:44 Speaker 08: them a little bit differently, and

00:26:46 Speaker 08: maybe you might get not quite

00:26:47 Speaker 08: the same set of opinions over

00:26:50 Speaker 08: beavers versus coyotes and wolves. I

00:26:52 Speaker 08: I mean I'm not saying to

00:26:54 Speaker 08: complicate everyone's lives even more with

00:26:56 Speaker 08: breaking up bylaws, but you know

00:27:00 Speaker 08: the one set you know kills

00:27:06 Speaker 08: livestock, the other set causes other

00:27:08 Speaker 08: agriculture. Causes other agricultural problems, and

00:27:12 Speaker 08: there are different ways to treat

00:27:14 Speaker 08: them all. And I agree with

00:27:17 Speaker 08: Blair. Relocating does not help anything

00:27:19 Speaker 09: because, yeah, it doesn't do anything

00:27:23 Speaker 09: at all. But anyway, I've gone

00:27:24 Speaker 09: on long enough. I think to

00:27:26 Speaker 09: what Scott was saying, there isn't

00:27:28 Speaker 09: a lot. I think the county

00:27:30 Speaker 09: can do. Unfortunately, it really is

00:27:32 Speaker 09: has to do with habitat loss.

00:27:35 Speaker 09: So, thank you very much, Brenda,

00:27:37 Speaker 09: Paul. Well, thank Oh, thank you,

00:27:39 Speaker 09: Madam Chair. And just as a

00:27:41 Speaker 09: couple comments, I am a bee

00:27:42 Speaker 09: farmer as well, so try to

00:27:44 Speaker 09: keep it sort of transparent. But

00:27:47 Speaker 09: I think the one comment I

00:27:49 Speaker 09: will make is the compensation hasn't

00:27:50 Speaker 09: had the cost of living built

00:27:51 Speaker 09: into that. And a lot of

00:27:53 Speaker 09: comments that I've heard is it's

00:27:55 Speaker 09: hardly even worth it to go

00:27:57 Speaker 09: through the you know the process

00:27:59 Speaker 09: of even. collecting the bounty. I

00:28:00 Speaker 09: would be interested to know if

00:28:02 Speaker 09: there was a report how it

00:28:06 Speaker 09: came about and why it came

00:28:07 Speaker 09: about. Obviously, there was a reason

00:28:09 Speaker 09: why something like this was put

00:28:11 Speaker 09: in place from from the reasons

00:28:13 Speaker 09: of probably we're talking about today

00:28:13 Speaker 09: and how that came up. And

00:28:14 Speaker 09: I'm not sure how long this

00:28:16 Speaker 09: has been in. You know, the

00:28:19 Speaker 09: compensation has been in play. But

00:28:21 Speaker 09: I will say that cost of

00:28:22 Speaker 09: living related to that. Like I

00:28:24 Speaker 09: mean, at the county we have

00:28:27 Speaker 09: all their costs and and and

00:28:29 Speaker 09: even at municipalities, we have fees

00:28:31 Speaker 09: and charges that we have to

00:28:33 Speaker 09: review every so often because everything

00:28:35 Speaker 09: else the costs continue to go

00:28:37 Speaker 09: up. So just an thought on

00:28:40 Speaker 09: that sense, and that was one

00:28:41 Speaker 09: of the things I heard was

00:28:43 Speaker 09: it's just it's not worth it

00:28:44 Speaker 09: anymore. As far as fencing, I

00:28:45 Speaker 09: know an individual sheep farmer quite

00:28:48 Speaker 09: a few years back went to

00:28:49 Speaker 09: the cost and trouble of putting

00:28:51 Speaker 09: cage wire around their sheep flock,

00:28:52 Speaker 09: and they still found that the

00:28:53 Speaker 09: coyotes were still digging. under the

00:28:54 Speaker 09: fence to get to the sheep,

00:28:56 Speaker 09: so I mean that's that's a

00:28:58 Speaker 09: huge cost to to do that.

00:29:00 Speaker 09: But they they they're determined, they're

00:29:01 Speaker 09: very determined, and I I don't

00:29:03 Speaker 09: know in the sense of so

00:29:05 Speaker 09: the point of electric fence that

00:29:06 Speaker 09: it would have to be almost

00:29:08 Speaker 09: like a mesh or something. I

00:29:09 Speaker 09: don't know. I think dogs. I'm

00:29:10 Speaker 09: trying to think of the municipalities

00:29:13 Speaker 09: that if we have, I think

00:29:14 Speaker 09: something tells me that we have

00:29:16 Speaker 09: some kind of a in there

00:29:17 Speaker 09: if they are working dogs. But

00:29:19 Speaker 09: I think from an educational point

00:29:21 Speaker 09: to the municipalities, if they are

00:29:23 Speaker 09: actually agricultural. Well, even a farm

00:29:24 Speaker 09: dog is a working dog, and

00:29:27 Speaker 09: you know we know we don't

00:29:29 Speaker 09: see it today, but we used

00:29:30 Speaker 09: to have a nuisance problems with

00:29:32 Speaker 09: groundhogs, and that was one of

00:29:35 Speaker 09: the reasons why you have a

00:29:37 Speaker 09: farm dog to keep. Well, not

00:29:40 Speaker 09: just groundhogs, but as far as

00:29:42 Speaker 09: I understand, or what I sort

00:29:43 Speaker 09: of feel that there's no more

00:29:45 Speaker 09: groundhogs anymore because the coyotes have

00:29:47 Speaker 09: taken care of the groundhogs. And

00:29:52 Speaker 09: I asked my dad, who's 91,

00:29:54 Speaker 09: you know, when he was a

00:29:56 Speaker 09: kid, there wasn't coyotes. There was

00:29:57 Speaker 09: wolves. There was groundhogs, but there

00:29:59 Speaker 09: wasn't. coyotes like we see today.

00:30:01 Speaker 09: So, I don't know that's an

00:30:04 Speaker 09: evolution thing or not. I I

00:30:06 Speaker 09: don't know. As far as beavers,

00:30:09 Speaker 09: from a from a landowner's perspective,

00:30:12 Speaker 09: yes, flooding is an issue. It

00:30:13 Speaker 09: it can you know greatly affect

00:30:15 Speaker 09: your your land. It was mentioned

00:30:16 Speaker 09: by a previous speaker, but not

00:30:17 Speaker 09: only that, from a municipality standpoint,

00:30:19 Speaker 09: water around your roads don't

00:30:24 Speaker 09: do you know your roads don't

00:30:27 Speaker 09: you know it suffer your roads

00:30:28 Speaker 09: suffer because you have wet areas

00:30:33 Speaker 09: that are affecting your shoulders of

00:30:34 Speaker 09: your roads, and and that's another

00:30:36 Speaker 09: problem. And usually, the municipalities, you

00:30:38 Speaker 09: know, deal with that to a

00:30:41 Speaker 09: certain certain degree. But I I

00:30:42 Speaker 09: think from from the comments from

00:30:44 Speaker 09: the pros and and and the

00:30:45 Speaker 09: ones that maybe aren't in favour

00:30:47 Speaker 09: of this, you know, I think

00:30:50 Speaker 09: it was mentioned by a previous

00:30:53 Speaker 09: speaker. You know, when you go

00:30:57 Speaker 09: out and you witness a kill,

00:30:59 Speaker 09: it is emotionally stressful, emotionally stressful.

00:31:01 Speaker 09: I should say. and yeah, and

00:31:03 Speaker 09: you know, if you can't find

00:31:06 Speaker 09: any carcass, yeah, and and and

00:31:07 Speaker 09: and today, my what I find,

00:31:08 Speaker 09: what I'm finding is they're in

00:31:10 Speaker 09: such a pack that if you

00:31:11 Speaker 09: do have a coyote kill, you're

00:31:13 Speaker 09: very fortunate to find it because

00:31:15 Speaker 09: a lot of times there's so

00:31:16 Speaker 09: many, there's there's nothing left, or

00:31:17 Speaker 09: there's just pieces, or they drag

00:31:19 Speaker 09: it away. So, you know, I

00:31:21 Speaker 09: I I think we're we're seeing

00:31:23 Speaker 09: the the coyote numbers are increasing.

00:31:25 Speaker 09: just from a personal perspective on

00:31:27 Speaker 09: on that type of thing. But

00:31:28 Speaker 09: I think you know. I think

00:31:30 Speaker 09: the question would be: Is you

00:31:32 Speaker 09: know those that are greatly affected,

00:31:34 Speaker 09: you know, and I don't know

00:31:36 Speaker 09: if you could reach out and

00:31:38 Speaker 09: maybe have to the Gray County

00:31:40 Speaker 09: beef farmers or the you know

00:31:41 Speaker 09: sheep. And I guess you somehow

00:31:43 Speaker 09: it was mentioned there about the

00:31:45 Speaker 09: Farmers' Week because you do have

00:31:48 Speaker 09: a lot of those commodities at

00:31:49 Speaker 09: Gray Bruce Farmers' Week in January,

00:31:52 Speaker 09: and maybe there's been conversations. But

00:31:55 Speaker 09: you know, I. think I think

00:31:58 Speaker 09: it probably if you ask any

00:32:01 Speaker 09: of those members of those groups,

00:32:02 Speaker 09: they would tell you yes, it

00:32:04 Speaker 09: is a problem and we need

00:32:05 Speaker 09: to do more. So I think

00:32:07 Speaker 09: it's it's in the perspective of

00:32:08 Speaker 09: of who's making the comments maybe

00:32:09 Speaker 09: to to be greatly affected. But

00:32:10 Speaker 09: even driving down even to a

00:32:12 Speaker 09: further point, I remember there was

00:32:13 Speaker 09: a report just outside of Collingwood

00:32:15 Speaker 09: where they found a den and

00:32:19 Speaker 09: there was a lot of dog

00:32:21 Speaker 09: collars, and so they also like

00:32:23 Speaker 09: always have an effect on dog.

00:32:26 Speaker 09: Always have an effect on dogs

00:32:28 Speaker 09: and cats. The cat population around

00:32:30 Speaker 09: any farm barn, barn cats I

00:32:31 Speaker 09: find, can in the summer summertime

00:32:33 Speaker 09: can greatly reduce because I guess

00:32:35 Speaker 09: they're out hunting and then they

00:32:36 Speaker 09: get caught by a pack of

00:32:38 Speaker 09: coyotes and stuff. So, you know,

00:32:40 Speaker 09: is it the right thing to

00:32:42 Speaker 09: do? Is it? I I don't

00:32:43 Speaker 09: know, but I guess it's it's

00:32:45 Speaker 09: one of those things I would

00:32:46 Speaker 05: really like to know is how

00:32:49 Speaker 05: did it come to be? And

00:32:52 Speaker 05: the point of of the inflationary

00:32:53 Speaker 05: compensation, I don't think is. I

00:32:55 Speaker 05: don't think his is stayed with

00:32:57 Speaker 05: when it was first introduced. So

00:32:59 Speaker 05: I'll leave that, Adam Chair. Thanks,

00:33:02 Speaker 05: Paul. Sarah, did you have a

00:33:04 Speaker 05: clarifying question or comment from what

00:33:10 Speaker 05: Paul said? Is that why you

00:33:13 Speaker 05: popped up? Go ahead, then, please.

00:33:15 Speaker 05: Actually, Brenda, as well. I just

00:33:17 Speaker 05: wanted to clarify there is two

00:33:19 Speaker 05: separate bylaws. There is a beaver

00:33:21 Speaker 05: bylaw and there is a coyote

00:33:23 Speaker 05: wolf bylaw. So we're not. I

00:33:25 Speaker 05: just was melding all the comments

00:33:27 Speaker 05: as one. So I just wanted

00:33:28 Speaker 05: to clarify that there were two

00:33:30 Speaker 05: separate bylaws that we are dealing

00:33:33 Speaker 05: with updating. but with regards to

00:33:36 Speaker 05: the compensation, this is something that

00:33:37 Speaker 05: that I want to dig deeper

00:33:40 Speaker 05: in and speak with some of

00:33:42 Speaker 05: the different organisations, the hunters and

00:33:44 Speaker 05: the trappers. But from what I

00:33:46 Speaker 05: understand historically, the trappers only ever

00:33:48 Speaker 05: they don't charge for their service,

00:33:49 Speaker 05: and which, for me as a

00:33:51 Speaker 05: as a landowner, as a as

00:33:55 Speaker 05: a person, you know, hiring somebody.

00:33:56 Speaker 05: for for a service, I would

00:33:59 Speaker 05: have expected to be paying somebody

00:34:01 Speaker 05: for that service. But it, I

00:34:03 Speaker 05: guess, historically, it was always about

00:34:04 Speaker 05: you know being able to just

00:34:05 Speaker 05: get in there, and then you

00:34:07 Speaker 05: would have the cost of the

00:34:10 Speaker 05: pelt that would reimburse you as

00:34:11 Speaker 05: well as this bonus little bounty

00:34:13 Speaker 05: fee, and that would cover your

00:34:15 Speaker 05: cost. But with the increased costs

00:34:17 Speaker 05: of you know gas and supplies

00:34:18 Speaker 05: and all of the equipment in

00:34:19 Speaker 05: order to do this, as well

00:34:21 Speaker 05: as the decrease in cost of

00:34:22 Speaker 05: or what the pelts are worth,

00:34:24 Speaker 05: which, by the sounds of it,

00:34:26 Speaker 05: is almost next to nothing. And

00:34:28 Speaker 05: then obviously not keeping up with

00:34:31 Speaker 05: a with a bounty amount. There

00:34:32 Speaker 05: are very few people that even

00:34:33 Speaker 05: want to. I I forget what

00:34:41 Speaker 05: the one old trapper told me,

00:34:48 Speaker 05: but basically don't even want to

00:34:50 Speaker 05: get off the couch for that

00:34:51 Speaker 05: one. Something like that. Um. So

00:34:53 Speaker 05: so, uh, it's something that I

00:34:54 Speaker 05: want to understand a little bit

00:34:56 Speaker 05: more, and I think that kind

00:34:58 Speaker 05: of goes along with like, how

00:35:01 Speaker 05: do we get here? I have

00:35:03 Speaker 05: reached out to the clerks department

00:35:06 Speaker 05: just to say, you know, like

00:35:10 Speaker 05: these were introduced way back in

00:35:13 Speaker 05: the 80s and the 90s. Like,

00:35:18 Speaker 05: what was the purpose of these

00:35:21 Speaker 05: bylaws? So, it is something that

00:35:25 Speaker 05: we will look into as part

00:35:27 Speaker 10: of the review, and what what

00:35:32 Speaker 10: will be contained within my report

00:35:36 Speaker 10: to bring back to council as

00:35:40 Speaker 10: well. Thank you, Sarah. Gail, you're

00:35:43 Speaker 10: muted, Gail. And just as sorry

00:35:45 Speaker 10: about that. I just wanted to

00:35:48 Speaker 10: mention that Blair has some excellent

00:35:50 Speaker 10: comments in the chat as well,

00:35:53 Speaker 10: in case you haven't seen it.

00:35:55 Speaker 10: Okay, go ahead, please, Gail. Thank

00:35:57 Speaker 10: you. And through the chair, being

00:35:59 Speaker 10: on a farm here, we've had

00:36:01 Speaker 10: beef cattle, we've had sheep. I've

00:36:03 Speaker 10: gone through. My father-in-law had 40

00:36:06 Speaker 10: years ago had probably 400 sheep.

00:36:09 Speaker 10: Four hundred sheep, and that was

00:36:11 Speaker 10: when the coyotes came in, and

00:36:14 Speaker 10: actually dogs as well came in

00:36:16 Speaker 10: and killed fifty sheep. It's very

00:36:17 Speaker 10: traumatic, and it it stays with

00:36:18 Speaker 10: you. And but I think you

00:36:20 Speaker 10: know with the bylaws, I think

00:36:22 Speaker 10: they do need to be updated.

00:36:25 Speaker 10: Definitely compensation as for farmers. we

00:36:29 Speaker 10: still have coyotes coming in. We

00:36:31 Speaker 10: had chickens up till just recently,

00:36:33 Speaker 10: but the chickens have gone in

00:36:35 Speaker 10: the freezer. So, but you know,

00:36:37 Speaker 10: we are deer fenced around our

00:36:40 Speaker 10: orchard. Like we have six foot

00:36:44 Speaker 10: deer fencing, and they go two

00:36:47 Speaker 10: and a half feet into the

00:36:49 Speaker 10: ground. A trench is dug, the

00:36:53 Speaker 10: fencing goes down, and then the

00:36:56 Speaker 10: rest of it. So they're eight

00:36:58 Speaker 10: feet basically, and coyote. And coyotes

00:37:01 Speaker 10: have climbed them, jumped them, dug

00:37:02 Speaker 10: underneath them. They've done everything, and

00:37:04 Speaker 10: now we've got our gates open.

00:37:06 Speaker 10: We have to because we're going

00:37:11 Speaker 10: to be starting to harvest in

00:37:14 Speaker 10: a couple of weeks. We can't

00:37:16 Speaker 10: be closing the gates for the

00:37:17 Speaker 10: coyotes. So I would say farmers

00:37:20 Speaker 10: deal with the coyotes. My husband

00:37:22 Speaker 10: and family are hunters, and they

00:37:25 Speaker 10: will go out and do what

00:37:29 Speaker 10: they have to do, but they

00:37:31 Speaker 10: don't want compensation for it. but

00:37:34 Speaker 10: I think it's the communication that

00:37:37 Speaker 10: needs to be addressed and educated

00:37:38 Speaker 10: to the people in the urban

00:37:40 Speaker 10: areas of why we do this.

00:37:42 Speaker 10: And you know, yes, and as

00:37:46 Speaker 10: Paul mentioned, the story in in

00:37:49 Speaker 10: Collingwood with the collars. I had

00:37:51 Speaker 10: a friend who's put their little

00:37:53 Speaker 10: small dog in the backyard. She

00:37:55 Speaker 10: turned around to close her sliding

00:37:56 Speaker 10: door. The coyote came. over, got

00:37:59 Speaker 10: her dog, and was gone. Yeah,

00:38:00 Speaker 10: it's it's traumatic, but you know,

00:38:02 Speaker 10: it's nobody wants to do anything.

00:38:04 Speaker 10: And you know, in the urban,

00:38:07 Speaker 10: they don't, they can't carry guns,

00:38:10 Speaker 10: they don't have guns, and a

00:38:13 Speaker 10: lot of people do not like

00:38:16 Speaker 10: guns, so it's it is a

00:38:19 Speaker 10: problem. But it's the in the

00:38:23 Speaker 10: beavers, we have three ponds, we

00:38:26 Speaker 10: get beavers, but. we don't kill

00:38:28 Speaker 10: beavers. They we just keep people

00:38:32 Speaker 10: around the area, and they will

00:38:34 Speaker 10: move on. You know, the next

00:38:40 Speaker 10: day they start to build somewhere

00:38:41 Speaker 10: else, and so that it's. And

00:38:42 Speaker 10: I, I from my Gray County

00:38:45 Speaker 10: days, I remember being told why

00:38:47 Speaker 04: they had the beaver bylaw. It

00:38:50 Speaker 04: was because they were backing up

00:38:51 Speaker 04: the ponds and they were flooding

00:38:53 Speaker 04: the roads, so they had to

00:38:55 Speaker 04: you know make sure the roads

00:38:57 Speaker 04: were open for people to. get

00:38:59 Speaker 04: through, and that's the reason why

00:39:01 Speaker 04: they had the beaver bylaws. So

00:39:04 Speaker 04: that was back in the early

00:39:06 Speaker 04: 2000s. So it, yeah, I think

00:39:08 Speaker 04: a little bit of compensation costs

00:39:11 Speaker 04: a living, but also it's more

00:39:13 Speaker 04: an education and getting a really

00:39:15 Speaker 04: good educational component out to the

00:39:18 Speaker 04: general public, and they will understand

00:39:21 Speaker 04: what farming is a. What farming

00:39:23 Speaker 04: is about. Thank you. Those are

00:39:25 Speaker 04: just my comments. Great comments. Other

00:39:28 Speaker 04: people. As you're thinking about raising

00:39:30 Speaker 04: your hand, I think we need

00:39:32 Speaker 04: to emphasize to the non-farmers that

00:39:34 Speaker 04: farmers are doing everything possible to

00:39:39 Speaker 11: protect their flock. They've got livestock

00:39:41 Speaker 11: guardian dogs. They've got the most

00:39:45 Speaker 11: amazing fencing that they can afford.

00:39:47 Speaker 11: They're bringing them in at night,

00:39:49 Speaker 11: etc. They don't want to lose

00:39:54 Speaker 11: their flock, so they're already doing

00:39:58 Speaker 11: every. They're already doing everything possible,

00:40:01 Speaker 11: and if they need the coyotes

00:40:07 Speaker 11: to be killed as the final

00:40:11 Speaker 11: answer, that's something they need in

00:40:13 Speaker 11: their toolbox. And for and I

00:40:15 Speaker 11: know this may sound odd, but

00:40:19 Speaker 11: for a non-farmer to tell us

00:40:21 Speaker 11: that we can't use that item

00:40:23 Speaker 11: in our toolbox, it's it doesn't

00:40:24 Speaker 11: go down well. And so I

00:40:26 Speaker 11: think the optics, if that's the

00:40:28 Speaker 11: reason why the bylaws are pulled,

00:40:33 Speaker 11: it may not go down well.

00:40:36 Speaker 11: either, from the farming community, and

00:40:38 Speaker 11: so something to think about. I

00:40:41 Speaker 11: think education is important on both

00:40:42 Speaker 11: sides. Simon, please. Well, thank you

00:40:46 Speaker 11: for all the comments, and it's

00:40:48 Speaker 11: really interesting to hear the discussion.

00:40:51 Speaker 11: And but this is the one

00:40:55 Speaker 11: thing what I see to my

00:40:58 Speaker 11: regret is that the divide between

00:41:00 Speaker 11: urban and agriculture. widened, despite all

00:41:03 Speaker 11: the good efforts that we give.

00:41:07 Speaker 11: Another thing that is it's very

00:41:09 Speaker 05: controversial, or we seem to live

00:41:12 Speaker 05: in a very polarized, a much

00:41:14 Speaker 05: more polarized world than we have

00:41:16 Speaker 05: ever done. And and and soon,

00:41:18 Speaker 05: you know, the words come up:

00:41:22 Speaker 05: your left or your right. Well,

00:41:23 Speaker 05: I think. Now, I think if

00:41:25 Speaker 05: you want to know where left

00:41:27 Speaker 05: or right is, first you got

00:41:29 Speaker 05: to determine where centre is. And

00:41:31 Speaker 05: yeah, like we can the carrying

00:41:33 Speaker 05: of guns. Like we have, I

00:41:35 Speaker 05: grew up on water and with

00:41:37 Speaker 05: guns, and there's two things that

00:41:40 Speaker 05: I have developed a very healthy

00:41:41 Speaker 05: respect for. So I'm quite happy

00:41:43 Speaker 05: that in Canada that we have

00:41:44 Speaker 05: fairly strict gun regulations. I think

00:41:47 Speaker 05: we just just a couple of

00:41:49 Speaker 05: the observations that I have made

00:41:51 Speaker 05: on on this discussion. I just

00:41:53 Speaker 05: should stop. Thank you, Simon. Sarah,

00:41:55 Speaker 05: please. I I just wanted to

00:41:57 Speaker 05: emphasize again, and I know we

00:41:59 Speaker 05: mentioned it. Regardless of what happens

00:42:01 Speaker 05: with the bylaws, it will not

00:42:03 Speaker 05: prevent anyone for from protecting their

00:42:04 Speaker 05: property. So even if there is

00:42:06 Speaker 05: not a a compensation component. through

00:42:07 Speaker 05: through any through one of these

00:42:13 Speaker 05: programmemes, if that's the way that

00:42:14 Speaker 12: council decides, it will not prevent

00:42:17 Speaker 12: anyone from from hunting or trapping

00:42:18 Speaker 12: these animals. It it's not going

00:42:19 Speaker 12: to stop it for those in

00:42:22 Speaker 12: the non-agricultural community, and I and

00:42:24 Speaker 12: I will be stressing that as

00:42:28 Speaker 12: well in my report, because yeah,

00:42:29 Speaker 12: we're not going to that, and

00:42:32 Speaker 12: that was one of the comments

00:42:35 Speaker 12: that we had heard as well.

00:42:36 Speaker 12: Like it's it cannot prevent and

00:42:38 Speaker 12: a landowner from protecting their property,

00:42:39 Speaker 12: and and. that includes their livestock.

00:42:41 Speaker 12: So, I guess in terms of

00:42:44 Speaker 12: there's an incentive now for the

00:42:46 Speaker 12: trappers and the hunters to come

00:42:47 Speaker 12: out though and look after the

00:42:49 Speaker 12: coyotes. And if you remove that

00:42:53 Speaker 12: incentive, do they continue to offer

00:42:54 Speaker 12: their services, or what does the

00:42:56 Speaker 12: farmer now have to pay for

00:42:59 Speaker 12: offering of those services? That would

00:43:03 Speaker 12: be my question. Scott, please. Yeah,

00:43:06 Speaker 12: thanks, Chair Smith, and and thanks

00:43:08 Speaker 12: everyone that's provided comments. I've been

00:43:09 Speaker 12: taking notes furiously here. There's a

00:43:11 Speaker 12: lot. Notes furiously here. There's lots

00:43:13 Speaker 12: of lots of good comments, and

00:43:16 Speaker 12: you know, I I I think

00:43:17 Speaker 12: as staff we were thinking going

00:43:20 Speaker 12: into this that we might see

00:43:22 Speaker 12: evidence of that urban and rural

00:43:24 Speaker 12: divide, and that we might see

00:43:27 Speaker 12: you know, as Simon said, polarization

00:43:29 Speaker 12: here. I think a lot of

00:43:31 Speaker 12: the comments that did come in,

00:43:33 Speaker 12: some you know, I I think

00:43:35 Speaker 12: it might be a lack of

00:43:37 Speaker 12: understanding about farming, but I think

00:43:39 Speaker 12: there's there's more nuance than than

00:43:41 Speaker 12: you know just the urban and

00:43:42 Speaker 12: rural divide. and I think one

00:43:45 Speaker 12: of the things, again, knowing this

00:43:47 Speaker 12: this group has has deep networks

00:43:48 Speaker 12: across the province, I'd love to

00:43:50 Speaker 12: hear either now or or later

00:43:52 Speaker 12: via email or in writing or

00:43:53 Speaker 12: phone conversations, if anyone has any

00:43:56 Speaker 12: examples they could share from other

00:44:00 Speaker 12: counties or other municipalities on whether

00:44:01 Speaker 12: or not this is an issue

00:44:03 Speaker 12: there. One of the things that

00:44:04 Speaker 12: led up to Sarah's report here

00:44:06 Speaker 12: today and and council directing a

00:44:07 Speaker 13: a bylaw review. was she had

00:44:10 Speaker 13: done a bunch of research on

00:44:12 Speaker 13: on other jurisdictions across the province

00:44:15 Speaker 13: that do or don't have these

00:44:16 Speaker 13: bylaws, and and Gray was one

00:44:18 Speaker 13: of the few that did, and

00:44:20 Speaker 13: and so knowing that we're all

00:44:23 Speaker 13: or many municipalities in in Ontario

00:44:25 Speaker 13: are growing and and our our

00:44:29 Speaker 13: suburban areas are are expanding and

00:44:31 Speaker 13: we're seeing less and less natural

00:44:34 Speaker 13: habitat for some of these animals

00:44:35 Speaker 13: to live in, I'd love to

00:44:38 Speaker 13: hear if anyone has any examples

00:44:41 Speaker 13: from from other parts of the

00:44:44 Speaker 13: province where we have that. urban-rural

00:44:45 Speaker 13: mix on on how a farmers

00:44:48 Speaker 13: might be dealing with things there,

00:44:50 Speaker 13: or or b if there's any

00:44:52 Speaker 13: other examples of of municipal approaches

00:44:54 Speaker 13: that maybe staff have missed in

00:44:56 Speaker 13: our research. But thanks again for

00:44:59 Speaker 13: all the comments. Thanks, Scott. Keith,

00:45:01 Speaker 13: please. Yes. Good morning. I've been

00:45:03 Speaker 13: kind of quiet, and I too

00:45:06 Speaker 13: have been listening and seeing. And

00:45:09 Speaker 13: I think most of my comments,

00:45:12 Speaker 13: I think, we're going to be

00:45:13 Speaker 13: just reiterating what everybody else is

00:45:15 Speaker 13: saying. However, the only thing that

00:45:17 Speaker 13: I haven't really heard. is the

00:45:18 Speaker 13: the removal of the dam and

00:45:20 Speaker 13: working in the waterway. Like if

00:45:24 Speaker 13: there's a person that owns a

00:45:31 Speaker 05: iho, we're talking about the trapping

00:45:34 Speaker 05: end of things. What about the

00:45:36 Speaker 05: removal of the dam with with

00:45:38 Speaker 05: equipment in those waterways? Sarah, you

00:45:40 Speaker 05: had commented that you know we

00:45:44 Speaker 05: wouldn't be in trouble if we

00:45:48 Speaker 05: were protecting our own properties, but

00:45:51 Speaker 05: how about have we looked at

00:45:53 Speaker 05: that case? and then as far

00:45:56 Speaker 05: as the the coyote bylaw, I

00:46:00 Speaker 05: know like we can, we have

00:46:03 Speaker 05: sheep as well. I've seen firsthand.

00:46:05 Speaker 05: Also, have had neighbours that have

00:46:07 Speaker 05: ended up in the hospital because

00:46:10 Speaker 05: mental health has just got them

00:46:13 Speaker 05: too too far down, and basically

00:46:15 Speaker 05: went out of business. So that

00:46:18 Speaker 05: that divide that Simon is talking

00:46:21 Speaker 05: about is real. And trying to

00:46:23 Speaker 05: figure out how that urban population

00:46:27 Speaker 05: understands the livelihood and the effects

00:46:29 Speaker 05: of of of this all is

00:46:33 Speaker 05: is is real. So, but yeah,

00:46:35 Speaker 05: if you could comment just about

00:46:37 Speaker 05: the removal of dams, that would

00:46:38 Speaker 05: be. I don't think there's a

00:46:42 Speaker 05: site visit that I go to

00:46:45 Speaker 05: where they don't talk about beavers

00:46:46 Speaker 05: being an issue. So, just comments

00:46:48 Speaker 05: on that. Sarah Scott. Sure, through

00:46:50 Speaker 05: you, chair. So the bylaw itself

00:46:52 Speaker 05: doesn't speak to the removal of

00:46:55 Speaker 05: dams, and I. and Keith wearing

00:46:56 Speaker 05: your your CA hat a little

00:46:57 Speaker 05: bit there. There could be some

00:47:01 Speaker 05: issues with when and where people

00:47:03 Speaker 05: are entering to remove entering a

00:47:06 Speaker 05: water course to remove the dam.

00:47:09 Speaker 05: I know a lot of times

00:47:11 Speaker 04: some of the trappers will will

00:47:14 Speaker 04: try to break down that that

00:47:16 Speaker 04: dam when they are out there.

00:47:17 Speaker 04: I. know that our roads crews

00:47:19 Speaker 04: often will go in afterwards and

00:47:24 Speaker 04: remove a dam within a watercourse,

00:47:26 Speaker 04: but with regards to any kind

00:47:28 Speaker 04: of regulation and any any landowner

00:47:31 Speaker 04: entering a watercourse at any given

00:47:32 Speaker 04: time, I don't know, and this

00:47:33 Speaker 04: bylaw doesn't cover that, and I

00:47:40 Speaker 04: don't know if that's something that

00:47:42 Speaker 04: has been investigated in the past

00:47:43 Speaker 04: with regards to. that part, but

00:47:45 Speaker 04: it's it is key because obviously

00:47:51 Speaker 04: that's the that's the physical thing

00:47:53 Speaker 04: that is you know blocking the

00:47:55 Speaker 04: the water and causing the problem.

00:47:57 Speaker 04: But what we have heard through

00:47:58 Speaker 04: this process is get rid of

00:47:59 Speaker 07: the animal first, and then that

00:48:02 Speaker 07: won't continue to come back or

00:48:04 Speaker 07: won't continue to grow. So maybe

00:48:06 Speaker 07: it is something that we do

00:48:09 Speaker 07: need to consider as part of

00:48:10 Speaker 07: the bylaw as well. Thanks, Sarah.

00:48:15 Speaker 07: A question to Keith. Keith, the

00:48:17 Speaker 07: Federation of Agriculture are looking into

00:48:19 Speaker 07: the livestock guardian dogs' role and

00:48:22 Speaker 07: how, as I understand it, to

00:48:24 Speaker 07: emphasize to the municipalities how it's

00:48:29 Speaker 07: a different thing—a livestock guardian dog

00:48:31 Speaker 07: versus just having a companion dog

00:48:33 Speaker 07: on your farm. Can you speak

00:48:37 Speaker 07: to what they're doing to for

00:48:40 Speaker 07: education, etc.? To be honest, I'm

00:48:41 Speaker 07: not too up to speed on

00:48:43 Speaker 07: where that's at. Okay, Diane is

00:48:44 Speaker 07: also. on there. I'm not sure

00:48:45 Speaker 07: whether you know anything about that

00:48:46 Speaker 07: as well, Diane. Yeah, sorry, I

00:48:48 Speaker 07: don't. No worries, but yeah, maybe

00:48:49 Speaker 07: we can check into that, Sarah.

00:48:50 Speaker 07: Just to because I think they

00:48:52 Speaker 07: are working on that. Blair, please.

00:48:54 Speaker 07: Sarah, I just wanted to follow

00:48:56 Speaker 07: up on what you said there.

00:48:57 Speaker 07: Removal of these dams is a

00:48:59 Speaker 04: big issue. So a few years

00:49:05 Speaker 04: ago, we had a Beaver Dam

00:49:08 Speaker 04: that was. blocking the Sittonem River

00:49:11 Speaker 04: and backing up tile into a

00:49:12 Speaker 04: couple hundred acres of farmland. That

00:49:14 Speaker 04: is a problem, right? And basically,

00:49:15 Speaker 04: we were told there's nothing you

00:49:17 Speaker 04: can do. Have a nice day.

00:49:18 Speaker 04: So, I don't know. I mean,

00:49:20 Speaker 04: in that case, it's oceans and

00:49:22 Speaker 04: fisheries because it's the Sittonem River,

00:49:25 Speaker 04: right? So, I'm assuming this is

00:49:27 Speaker 04: out of the scope of this

00:49:29 Speaker 04: bylaw, but. it it puts farmers

00:49:30 Speaker 04: in a precarious situation where basically

00:49:32 Speaker 04: you have to go do something

00:49:36 Speaker 04: about it, right? Scott, please. Thanks,

00:49:37 Speaker 04: Blair. Yeah, thank you, through your

00:49:40 Speaker 04: chair, Smith. Thanks for the comments

00:49:43 Speaker 04: about this. I I think that's

00:49:44 Speaker 04: an area that maybe staff need

00:49:46 Speaker 04: to do a little bit further

00:49:50 Speaker 04: research here. And we've been talking

00:49:52 Speaker 04: a lot about education. Sounds like

00:49:53 Speaker 04: a we need to educate ourselves

00:49:57 Speaker 04: a little bit further because I'm

00:49:59 Speaker 04: a little foggy on some of

00:50:01 Speaker 04: this, and and B maybe there's

00:50:04 Speaker 04: some some information we could provide

00:50:08 Speaker 04: back out to land. And we

00:50:11 Speaker 04: could provide backup to landowners. So

00:50:12 Speaker 04: yeah, really appreciate folks raising those

00:50:15 Speaker 04: comments. Any more comments or discussion

00:50:16 Speaker 04: on this matter? Hi, sorry I

00:50:18 Speaker 04: couldn't get my mute off. But

00:50:19 Speaker 04: no, I don't know any more

00:50:21 Speaker 04: about the guardian dogs. Yeah, maybe

00:50:23 Speaker 04: we we can dig into that

00:50:25 Speaker 04: a little and help Sarah know

00:50:26 Speaker 04: what's kind of going on from

00:50:28 Speaker 04: a provincial level. And because I

00:50:30 Speaker 04: have heard rumblings that they're working

00:50:32 Speaker 04: on this. Okay, not seeing any

00:50:34 Speaker 04: more. hands. If we can go

00:50:36 Speaker 04: back to the motion, all in

00:50:41 Speaker 04: favour of the motion that was

00:50:42 Speaker 04: previously read. I see. Just raise

00:50:44 Speaker 09: your hands physically. I know it's

00:50:49 Speaker 09: hard. Keith, did you want to

00:50:54 Speaker 09: say something first, or is that

00:50:55 Speaker 09: your hand for the motion? Sorry,

00:50:58 Speaker 09: sorry, that's my hand. Okay, I

00:51:03 Speaker 09: think it's just easier to say.

00:51:05 Speaker 09: Anyone opposed, please. Seeing no hands,

00:51:06 Speaker 09: I would say that motion is

00:51:07 Speaker 09: carried. Thank you very much for

00:51:10 Speaker 09: that. detailed discussion. That is wonderful.

00:51:11 Speaker 09: Now moving on to the roundtable

00:51:13 Speaker 09: discussion. This is our opportunity, the

00:51:13 Speaker 09: farmers' opportunity, to share with the

00:51:15 Speaker 09: more urban people or non-farmers what's

00:51:16 Speaker 09: happening in our world. What challenges

00:51:17 Speaker 09: are we facing? What are the

00:51:20 Speaker 09: trends? What are the opportunities? I

00:51:23 Speaker 09: think over the past couple meetings

00:51:27 Speaker 09: we haven't had a lot of

00:51:29 Speaker 09: chatter in here, but this is

00:51:30 Speaker 09: your opportunity to express what's going

00:51:31 Speaker 09: on because other people. on the

00:51:34 Speaker 09: meeting may not know what kind

00:51:36 Speaker 09: of weather impacts have we been

00:51:38 Speaker 09: facing. What has there been any

00:51:39 Speaker 09: impact of tariffs, tariffs, etc.? Anything

00:51:42 Speaker 09: you want to share? Now is

00:51:44 Speaker 09: your opportunity. So the floor is

00:51:48 Speaker 09: yours. Just raise your hand and

00:51:50 Speaker 09: let's let's chat. Paul, please. Well,

00:51:52 Speaker 09: I didn't think I was going

00:51:53 Speaker 09: to be the first one speaking,

00:51:55 Speaker 09: but okay. I think something that

00:51:58 Speaker 09: needs to be mindful. is how

00:51:58 Speaker 09: farmers have to deal with the

00:52:00 Speaker 09: weather in the sense of too

00:52:03 Speaker 09: wet, too dry, etc., etc. For

00:52:06 Speaker 09: example, you know, and I know

00:52:07 Speaker 09: I mentioned at I think at

00:52:09 Speaker 09: last meeting about the ice storm

00:52:10 Speaker 09: and how that affected certain individuals,

00:52:12 Speaker 09: and I know just all that

00:52:16 Speaker 09: fencing and stuff like that was

00:52:19 Speaker 09: a big problem and stuff like

00:52:23 Speaker 09: that. But that's not where I'm

00:52:25 Speaker 09: talking about today. I'm going to

00:52:27 Speaker 09: speak more to about the dry

00:52:28 Speaker 09: weather we had this summer and

00:52:29 Speaker 09: around. the issues around irrigation and

00:52:32 Speaker 09: certain things that can quickly affect

00:52:34 Speaker 09: farmers, and not those that irrigate

00:52:35 Speaker 09: all their crops, but certain sectors

00:52:38 Speaker 09: do. And I think there just

00:52:40 Speaker 09: has to be a bit of

00:52:42 Speaker 09: an urgency if when it comes

00:52:44 Speaker 09: to the agricultural part. Sometimes it

00:52:47 Speaker 09: can turn around pretty quick, and

00:52:48 Speaker 09: if there's ways to just streamline

00:52:52 Speaker 09: things to help that sector, and

00:52:55 Speaker 09: it could be in multiple different

00:52:57 Speaker 09: examples, but. I think from a

00:52:59 Speaker 09: maybe from a municipal side or

00:53:01 Speaker 09: from a staffing side or from

00:53:04 Speaker 09: a from a different perspective, or

00:53:07 Speaker 09: from a lot of across trying

00:53:09 Speaker 09: to keep general. Because I don't

00:53:10 Speaker 09: want to get into specifics, but

00:53:12 Speaker 09: just in the sense that you

00:53:13 Speaker 09: know sometimes farmers need help in

00:53:15 Speaker 09: a quick fashion or they need

00:53:18 Speaker 09: assistance in a quick fashion or

00:53:21 Speaker 09: however or whatever. I just think

00:53:24 Speaker 09: there has to be a mindful

00:53:25 Speaker 09: that you know farmers grow food

00:53:26 Speaker 09: for for those and and sometimes.

00:53:28 Speaker 09: circumstances have to move to quick

00:53:36 Speaker 09: measures, and sometimes bureaucracy gets in

00:53:38 Speaker 09: the road. I'm trying to stay

00:53:40 Speaker 09: really general here because I don't

00:53:43 Speaker 09: want to get into specifics. But

00:53:48 Speaker 10: it's just the understanding that sometimes

00:53:51 Speaker 10: when a a farmer needs something

00:53:54 Speaker 10: to assist, and it could be,

00:53:56 Speaker 10: I'll give you just a quick

00:53:58 Speaker 10: example. If if there's a situation

00:54:02 Speaker 10: where there's a an elevator or

00:54:04 Speaker 10: a grain storage needs to be

00:54:06 Speaker 10: installed, and and the developers or

00:54:08 Speaker 10: a cattle barn. And the developers

00:54:11 Speaker 10: are a cattle barn or whatever,

00:54:16 Speaker 10: you know. Maybe it needs to

00:54:18 Speaker 10: be a streamline on or or

00:54:20 Speaker 10: for access like driveways or agriculture

00:54:22 Speaker 10: driveways, and I use that as

00:54:24 Speaker 10: an example. Sometimes you know there

00:54:26 Speaker 10: are bureaucracy processes that, but sometimes

00:54:30 Speaker 10: those need to be either streamlined

00:54:33 Speaker 10: or or or examples that they

00:54:37 Speaker 10: they they move forward quicker than

00:54:38 Speaker 10: maybe other processes do. And I'm

00:54:40 Speaker 10: just saying that in general. But

00:54:41 Speaker 10: just the whole part about farmers

00:54:45 Speaker 10: and agriculture and the whole part

00:54:47 Speaker 10: of what farmers do is to

00:54:50 Speaker 10: grow food for everyone. And sometimes

00:54:54 Speaker 10: weather or circumstances arise that sometimes

00:54:57 Speaker 10: there needs to be that understanding

00:54:59 Speaker 10: that things need to be streamlined

00:55:01 Speaker 10: or moved for in a quicker

00:55:03 Speaker 10: fashion. And I'll just leave it

00:55:07 Speaker 10: at that. Thanks, Paul. Gail. Thank

00:55:11 Speaker 10: you, and through the chair. Yes,

00:55:14 Speaker 10: it's been busy in the Blue

00:55:16 Speaker 10: Mountains and. we had the pleasure

00:55:20 Speaker 10: of Minister Lisa Thompson and Minister

00:55:22 Speaker 10: Brian Sanderson come to Georgian Hills,

00:55:25 Speaker 10: which was the second week of

00:55:28 Speaker 10: August. She was having a tour,

00:55:31 Speaker 10: and she wanted to see how

00:55:33 Speaker 10: craft cider was being made. And

00:55:35 Speaker 10: so she was at Georgian Hills,

00:55:37 Speaker 10: and then she was touring on