Owen Sound Board - Special River District Meeting Transcript — February 4, 2026

00:00:06 Speaker 01: Good evening, everyone.

00:00:07 Speaker 01: Welcome to our special meeting, February fourth.

00:00:11 Speaker 01: And I'd like to call the meeting to order.

00:00:15 Speaker 01: First of all, are there any declarations of interest?

00:00:19 Speaker 01: Seeing none.

00:00:22 Speaker 02: Deputations and presentations: Three A. Deputation from Ali Boltman, board member Beth Ezekiel Synagogue.

00:00:33 Speaker 03: If you would come to the podium, please.

00:00:38 Speaker 03: Thank you.

00:00:40 Speaker 03: Now, there's no messing around here.

00:00:44 Speaker 03: I've been sitting for 30 seconds.

00:00:46 Speaker 03: Thank you for having me.

00:00:53 Speaker 03: My name is Ali Boltman, and I represent the Beth Ezekiel Synagogue Board.

00:01:00 Speaker 03: There are five of us.

00:01:06 Speaker 03: I know some of the people in this room, but not everyone.

00:01:28 Speaker 03: I'm here today to follow up on an earlier request to see if the River District Board of Management would consider being our partners for an application that's going in next Wednesday to the Minister of

00:01:47 Speaker 03: the Solicitor General.

00:01:59 Speaker 03: Our sponsor for this project is the Owen Sound Police Force, and we have numerous multi-sectoral partners: All three libraries from Blue Mountains straight to Owen Sound, Junction Community Initiatives Group,

00:02:22 Speaker 03: which is a Black-led youth group out in Dundalk, Victim Services of Bruce and Grey, United Way is now stepping up for us, and Blue Water District School Board have all confirmed at this point.

00:02:44 Speaker 03: Which is you know a pretty nice show of support for us and very rewarding, especially after a tough couple of years.

00:02:56 Speaker 03: I was also appreciative to get Dave Parsons' updated support letter two days ago, which I understand the Board of Management has also read.

00:03:08 Speaker 03: I want to give you a couple of things that Chief Ambrose has provided me with to be able to support our application in terms of community need: These are hate crime stats.

00:03:25 Speaker 03: One of them you probably already saw in my earlier letter,

00:03:36 Speaker 03: which is a bit more broad throughout Canada to show that 70% of all religiously motivated hate crimes in Canada are lodged directly at the Jewish people,

00:03:50 Speaker 03: despite the fact that we make up 1.4% of the entire population.

00:04:04 Speaker 03: Here in Owen Sound, in 2025 there were seven hate incidents on record; in two thousand and twenty-four there were four, including the oh so marvelous bomb threat that our synagogue received,

00:04:26 Speaker 03: which probably is one of the lowest, saddest days of my life when my teenage kid opened that email and saw the words "You don't deserve to live."

00:04:38 Speaker 03: In 2023 there were two.

00:04:45 Speaker 03: I think this is pretty clear that this is a bit of a rising trend.

00:04:58 Speaker 03: You folks, being the Board of Management for the downtown core, are believe it or not also on the front lines with us.

00:05:06 Speaker 03: You're our friends.

00:05:16 Speaker 03: You're our neighbors, and you're in the core where a lot of people choose to take their grievances and their anger when things go wrong in the world.

00:05:32 Speaker 03: Jews have always been the first scapegoats, and we continue to be.

00:05:38 Speaker 03: I would like to ask today, as your friends and neighbors,

00:05:54 Speaker 03: that you consider adding a paragraph to your letter of support that would enable you to actually come with us on this application to the Ministry of the Solicitor General as partners rather than just supporters.

00:06:07 Speaker 03: It's not that we aren't appreciative of your support; we are.

00:06:18 Speaker 03: It's hugely rewarding to know that you believe in this work too, and we believe you when you tell us that you support us.

00:06:37 Speaker 03: However, a simple addition to your letter with a slight tweak in language would make all the difference to move you from the position of being a supporter of ours to being a partner.

00:06:57 Speaker 03: I'd like to take the opportunity to read the paragraph that I've added, which is pretty much an amalgam of things you've already read.

00:07:07 Speaker 03: But just to illustrate to you how simple this would be if you were to consider it:

00:07:21 Speaker 03: In between your existing fourth and fifth paragraph of the letter that Mr. Parsons kindly wrote us on your behalf,

00:07:40 Speaker 03: we are pleased at this time to offer our partnership to the Beth Ezekiel Synagogue for this endeavor, working directly with the synagogue.

00:08:04 Speaker 02: If they are successfully funded, we will co-host one professionally facilitated anti-Semitism workshop per year for two years to their members, their families, and other downtown stakeholders at the synagogue's expense;

00:08:22 Speaker 04: we will work with the synagogue to help them locate an appropriate location for these workshops and open the invitation through our networks for our downtown community and stakeholders to attend.

00:08:43 Speaker 04: One of these sessions may be hybridized or online entirely to increase ease of access for those with disabilities.

00:08:58 Speaker 03: We will follow up each presentation with an optional online survey to be sent to registered participants, which can be managed by the synagogue if we determine that it's appropriate at the time.

00:09:21 Speaker 03: We also look forward to up to two opportunities for our downtown business community to visit the Beth Ezekiel Synagogue to learn in place from our Jewish friends and neighbors about the impact of anti-Semitism on

00:09:39 Speaker 03: the community,

00:09:44 Speaker 03: as well as enrich our understanding of their cultural artifacts, their local history, and the key tenets of Judaism.

00:09:53 Speaker 03: Basically everything you heard in there is very open; it's very optional.

00:10:01 Speaker 03: What we're saying is please help us by offering these opportunities to your people.

00:10:07 Speaker 03: There's no requirement for anybody to show up.

00:10:11 Speaker 03: There's no requirement for you to put butts in seats.

00:10:18 Speaker 03: We will do the work, and if people don't come they don't come.

00:10:43 Speaker 03: But if they do come it offers a really great opportunity for us to be able to teach people about anti-Semitism and the terrible impact it has had on our community and communities across the country,

00:10:59 Speaker 03: and further to that around the world.

00:11:09 Speaker 03: I'm sure no one in this room is unaware of what happened in Australia on our first day of Hanukkah this year where fifteen people were slaughtered on a beach simply for being Jewish.

00:11:21 Speaker 03: This is a real issue.

00:11:33 Speaker 03: You're real people working in a real city that has real problems, and some of those problems stem from the fact that people haven't had a chance to meet Jews in person,

00:11:49 Speaker 03: to develop relationships with them or to have civil conversation rooted in history and fact; and that's all we're trying to bring to the table today.

00:12:01 Speaker 03: I guess I think the clock never started running so I don't know if I'm over or not.

00:12:17 Speaker 03: But I did just write a couple things here: your Jewish friends and neighbors have been in the fabric of life here in Owen Sound for more than one hundred and thirty years.

00:12:31 Speaker 03: We're members of the Sports Hall of Fame.

00:12:50 Speaker 03: There have been multiple Jewish shopkeepers, city councillors, award-winning cultural connectors, founders of Owen Sound Little Theatre, Rotarians, Kiwanis members; we've helped change the social order of things here.

00:13:08 Speaker 03: At one time the Owen Sound Golf Club for example was barred to Jews.

00:13:21 Speaker 03: It was Eddie Sargent and our people who many years ago fought to have that changed and did change it.

00:13:33 Speaker 03: To the point right now nobody in this room could ever probably even believe that the Owen Sound Golf Club or the Curling Club, for that matter,

00:13:51 Speaker 03: once closed their doors to their Jewish friends and neighbors.

00:14:28 Speaker 03: I'm asking you to consider extending your support for us to the level of partnership so that we can in fact count you as our partners on this application.

00:14:51 Speaker 03: I think that's what we would appreciate; we would appreciate your support and your allyship but what we really would prefer is your partnership.

00:15:05 Speaker 02: And I think I'll turn this mic off in case anyone has any questions.

00:15:11 Speaker 02: Thanks, Ali.

00:15:15 Speaker 02: I'm told that any questions to be asked are to be directed to our community.

00:15:21 Speaker 02: Oh?

00:15:21 Speaker 02: Is it?

00:15:27 Speaker 02: Then you can ask all the questions you want.

00:15:34 Speaker 02: Sorry, I'll just back off.

00:15:35 Speaker 02: Anyone?

00:15:49 Speaker 02: Any questions for Ali?

00:15:51 Speaker 02: Yes Councillor Don.

00:15:56 Speaker 02: Thank you Mr. Chair and through you to Ali.

00:16:21 Speaker 02: So Ali just give me a general idea: so is the event intended to be just for River District membership?

00:16:32 Speaker 02: Is it meant to be a public session for anyone in the general River District area or what's the...

00:16:40 Speaker 03: I guess we were talking about a partnership.

00:16:48 Speaker 03: I'm just trying to get a general understanding saying what is the River District Board trying to do?

00:17:05 Speaker 03: Is it to go out to their members and have it as the 200-some odd businesses that are in the downtown area, or are we working in partnership with you to host a public forum?

00:17:30 Speaker 03: We're still; all of us are dependent on funding, so in some ways we can't yet anticipate whether we can move forward with any of this.

00:17:47 Speaker 03: But providing we do get funding, the hope is that we would have a series of these events.

00:18:04 Speaker 05: Some would be run by the libraries.

00:18:10 Speaker 02: Some would be run in the downtown core.

00:18:17 Speaker 02: Events would be held at the synagogue.

00:18:24 Speaker 02: Other events might be held in other places.

00:18:40 Speaker 06: I know Victim Services seems to be interested in having us come out to Southampton and working with a group of people there.

00:19:06 Speaker 06: Other than the events at the synagogue, which are really meant to be sort of like more informal "doors open" events for curated communities, all of these events would feature experts and facilitators,

00:19:29 Speaker 06: so people who are really rooted in fact and who are used to speaking about these things and having difficult conversations.

00:19:40 Speaker 06: Why we chose the downtown?

00:19:46 Speaker 06: It was actually Chief Ambrose who chose the downtown.

00:19:55 Speaker 06: He was the one who said, "I think you should reach out to the River District Board.

00:20:02 Speaker 06: They're downtown.

00:20:05 Speaker 06: They're on the front lines.

00:20:17 Speaker 06: They're having people in their core all the time for protests, having conversations,

00:20:38 Speaker 06: and it would be helpful for them to be able to have an opportunity to understand the difference between what is anti-Semitic and what is not, what is legally criminal, what is not."

00:20:48 Speaker 06: And that's the type of thing that this workshop would offer.

00:21:01 Speaker 06: Whether we combine your workshop with a library one at this point might be too early to say.

00:21:19 Speaker 06: But I think the point is, we'd like to ask you to simply use your channels to invite people to come.

00:21:31 Speaker 06: Your business community makes a lot of sense.

00:21:38 Speaker 06: Their families and your stakeholders.

00:21:50 Speaker 06: And if it goes broader than that, then that's fine too.

00:21:59 Speaker 06: These are professional workshops.

00:22:05 Speaker 06: They're not meant to be town halls.

00:22:08 Speaker 06: They're education sessions.

00:22:09 Speaker 06: Anyone else?

00:22:14 Speaker 06: Yes, Vice Chair Thomas.

00:22:16 Speaker 06: Thank you.

00:22:21 Speaker 06: Do you have a sense of what this is going to cost us?

00:22:30 Speaker 06: I hate to bring it down to dollars and cents,

00:22:48 Speaker 06: but one of the issues with our constitution and the way we are put together is we're really not supposed to commit ourselves to things without really having an understanding of what the costs are,

00:23:22 Speaker 06: so the beauty of this is that all the costs are on us.

00:23:33 Speaker 06: So it's all dependent on funding, which means if we don't get it, we don't go forward.

00:23:49 Speaker 07: I mean, the synagogue may still try to pull a rabbit out of a hat and offer some sort of educational offering to the city, and whoever comes comes.

00:24:04 Speaker 07: But all the expenses are borne by us.

00:24:25 Speaker 07: So all you would need to do is help us by promoting it and saying, as their partners, this event is happening.

00:24:38 Speaker 07: You are welcome to come.

00:24:43 Speaker 07: There's no requirement.

00:25:04 Speaker 07: We'll pay for the venue costs depending on where we end up, and that we simply ask that you work with us to determine how we can send out a survey to attendees.

00:25:49 Speaker 07: So, if you folks decide that you would like to be in charge of the guest list, which would likely be an online Eventbrite situation, and you're worried about privacy,

00:26:14 Speaker 07: then somebody here can simply send out a survey, or post-survey, to say, "Hey, what did you think of this?

00:26:30 Speaker 07: What did you learn about this?"

00:26:40 Speaker 02: So that we can determine how effective it was.

00:26:53 Speaker 02: If you don't want to be the ones to send that out, then I'd suggest that we make the list, the registration list through Eventbrite, and we send out the survey.

00:27:09 Speaker 02: But hopefully, the people that would be at that session would be people related to the River District, the businesses, their families, and stakeholders.

00:27:17 Speaker 08: So there's no cost, really.

00:27:21 Speaker 08: It doesn't get much better than that, really.

00:27:28 Speaker 08: It will cost us some time, but I appreciate your comments.

00:27:34 Speaker 08: Just as follow-up then for staff.

00:27:37 Speaker 08: Yes.

00:27:39 Speaker 08: To staff, I just wonder...

00:27:47 Speaker 08: You know, we just recently approved this year's work plan.

00:27:52 Speaker 08: We've approved this year's budgets, which clearly we're not going to be worrying about.

00:28:03 Speaker 08: But I just wonder, in terms of staff time and energy, do we have the capacity to take this on?

00:28:20 Speaker 08: Through the chair, I wonder if Ali could anticipate how many hours of staff support would be included based on the number of events and that type of thing.

00:28:39 Speaker 08: Well, I think if we're responsible for coming up with any posters that are in the downtown,

00:28:51 Speaker 08: coming up with any social media posts... all that I really foresee being required of any city staff is you sharing the event on your Facebook page or your social media pages.

00:29:06 Speaker 04: I know I'm apparently old now, so I think of Facebook only, but there apparently are more.

00:29:16 Speaker 04: But we would ask that you share it on your social media pages.

00:29:31 Speaker 04: Depending on who decides to hold the invite list, maybe the survey might be something that you would send out,

00:29:47 Speaker 04: or maybe you would agree to keep a paper survey here at City Hall for people who don't want to do it online.

00:29:58 Speaker 04: I don't really anticipate a whole lot more work than that.

00:30:04 Speaker 04: Like we're really doing the bulk of everything.

00:30:06 Speaker 04: Anyone else?

00:30:07 Speaker 04: Care to comment?

00:30:08 Speaker 04: Questions?

00:30:10 Speaker 04: Does that answer your question, Pam?

00:30:13 Speaker 04: Any other questions?

00:30:14 Speaker 04: None.

00:30:16 Speaker 04: Would somebody like to make a motion of some sort?

00:30:20 Speaker 04: No. Yes.

00:30:33 Speaker 04: Well, things that Ali had mentioned is to insert a paragraph in the letter that's already been written, and it's a matter of what so that we would become a partner.

00:30:45 Speaker 04: And certainly, if this doesn't go... could you hand that to Stacy, please?

00:30:50 Speaker 04: And if you'd like, we could have that reread.

00:30:56 Speaker 04: But in the event that they don't get the grant...

00:31:01 Speaker 04: This is for not.

00:31:12 Speaker 04: I guess, having spoken to a few police in the area, their feeling is that this would be a good thing for us to take on, just on the basis of education.

00:31:32 Speaker 04: And I relayed to Ellie that in fact, as a member of Kwanas years ago, Lauren Rich invited us to come to the synagogue, and we learned quite a bit.

00:31:42 Speaker 04: And certainly, we've been friends with Jewish people for a very long time.

00:31:55 Speaker 04: So I don't know what anyone's afraid of when it comes to that, or just why there is the anti-Semitism boost at the present time.

00:32:06 Speaker 04: But it's not—it's not in...

00:32:08 Speaker 04: It's just not right.

00:32:10 Speaker 04: So anyway, would you like that?

00:32:13 Speaker 04: Yeah.

00:32:16 Speaker 04: So I guess make a motion to lose your...

00:32:27 Speaker 04: I'd like to make a motion to approve the request for partnership and to make a motion to amend the letter to include the statements about partnership.

00:32:42 Speaker 04: Any other comments?

00:32:44 Speaker 04: All in favor of the motion.

00:32:47 Speaker 04: Carried.

00:32:49 Speaker 04: You got your wish.

00:32:51 Speaker 04: Thanks, Ellie.

00:32:55 Speaker 04: Thank you.

00:32:57 Speaker 04: Now, I really appreciate it.

00:33:05 Speaker 04: I just want to say one more super quick thing.

00:33:20 Speaker 04: I meant to say, and I don't know if you all remember that when Owen Sound was arsoned with that multiple arson in two thousand and fifteen,

00:33:35 Speaker 04: it was the synagogue's cameras that actually caught that arsonist.

00:33:50 Speaker 02: I don't know if people know that, but had it not been for unfortunately, the hate that we live with, we wouldn't have those cameras, and we wouldn't have been able to participate in helping.

00:34:09 Speaker 02: And Loren Rich, when he did pass away... just before he passed away, when his building was arsoned [arsoned], he convinced the firemen to let him into the building,

00:34:37 Speaker 02: despite the fact that it was condemned and still literally having the fire put out, so that he could grab a suit for a gentleman who was getting married that day.

00:34:54 Speaker 02: That's the kind of thing that neighbors do for each other, and that...

00:35:03 Speaker 05: the kind of thing that you just did today.

00:35:11 Speaker 05: So thank you.

00:35:15 Speaker 07: Thanks very much.

00:35:17 Speaker 07: Yes, Pam.

00:35:19 Speaker 07: Through you, Chair.

00:35:28 Speaker 07: Just an operational note: We'll work with our clerks group and make sure, just in terms of handling the email addresses, which is personal information.

00:35:57 Speaker 07: We'll just work with them to make sure that if the city or the River District is handling that... not all.

00:36:16 Speaker 07: That and not Ally—that we do that in the most appropriate way.

00:36:28 Speaker 07: So I just wanted to let the board know we'll sort that out.

00:36:35 Speaker 07: Thanks, Pam.

00:36:40 Speaker 07: All right, reports: Report CS 2026-008 from the District Coordinator, Non-Eligible Collection Options Review, Post-Municipal Extension.

00:36:49 Speaker 07: Vivica, I believe?

00:36:51 Speaker 07: Or Pam?

00:36:54 Speaker 09: Thank you through you, Mr. Chair.

00:37:08 Speaker 09: The purpose of this report is to present options and approximate costs associated with the alternatives for non-eligible sources collection within the River District.

00:37:24 Speaker 09: This issue stems from a major provincial change to recycling across Ontario.

00:37:45 Speaker 09: In 2021, the province transferred responsibility for the residential blue box program from municipalities to producer responsibility organizations (PROs), which became fully responsible for residential recycling across Ontario as of January 1, 2026.

00:38:07 Speaker 09: Under this system, businesses, not-for-profits, municipal facilities, and many mixed-use buildings are not included as eligible sources and are therefore no longer covered.

00:38:26 Speaker 09: In 2023, Owen Sound entered into a transition agreement to keep servicing these non-eligible properties through the end of 2025, while municipalities across Ontario push the province and the PROs to find a solution.

00:38:46 Speaker 09: Through 2024 and 2025, there were discussions, proposals, and even a suggestion that dense areas like the River District might be included.

00:38:59 Speaker 09: Ultimately, in October 2025, the Ministry of Environment and the PROs confirmed this service would not be provided.

00:39:12 Speaker 10: In November of 2025, the City's Operations Committee reviewed the situation and recommended that the city continue collecting recycling from non-eligible properties for three additional months, from January 1 to March 31, 2026,

00:39:24 Speaker 10: with a budget allocation of $60,000.

00:39:28 Speaker 10: This is currently being used.

00:39:44 Speaker 10: Without a solution, businesses will no longer be able to place recyclables or cardboard at the curb; each business would need to arrange private collection.

00:39:57 Speaker 10: At the January 14th meeting, the board asked to see what options exist specifically for the River District.

00:40:11 Speaker 10: What follows are those options and their associated costs.

00:40:23 Speaker 10: Option one is curbside blue box cart collection of recyclables and cardboard weekly.

00:40:34 Speaker 05: Over the following nine months to the end of 2026, this would be approximately $52,000.

00:40:48 Speaker 05: There might be some consideration on the day that pickup would have to occur.

00:40:59 Speaker 05: Option two is curbside blue box cart collection of recyclables weekly and cardboard biweekly.

00:41:33 Speaker 05: You'll see that this cost is broken down in week one/week two pricing because the week that has the cardboard would be a little bit more,

00:41:52 Speaker 05: but the week that doesn't would be a little bit less.

00:42:08 Speaker 08: The approximate for that over the following nine months to the end of 2026 would be about $48,000 (forty-eight thousand dollars).

00:42:32 Speaker 08: We may need to address an alternative day for pickup; and that would be something we would look into operationally if one of these selections were made.

00:42:48 Speaker 02: Option three: curbside weekly collection of recycling utilizing recycling carts only at every participating River District business.

00:42:48 Speaker 08: No cardboard, so no boxboard.

00:42:49 Speaker 08: Estimated costs would be about $820 a week over the nine months ($31,000 approximately).

00:42:49 Speaker 08: The prices do not include the collection of cardboard.

00:42:49 Speaker 08: Price to supply 95-gallon carts is approximately $129 per cart, not including the above costing.

00:42:49 Speaker 08: Note: each location would require separate carts for different materials.

00:42:49 Speaker 08: This is one I just read.

00:42:51 Speaker 08: So now we're on four.

00:42:51 Speaker 08: Option four: weekly curbside collection of cardboard only.

00:42:51 Speaker 08: Estimated cost would be about $21,000 for the remainder of 2026.

00:42:51 Speaker 08: All of the other recyclables, cans, and that sort of thing would be removed at the discretion of the business owner.

00:42:52 Speaker 08: Option number five required businesses to assume responsibility for the disposal of non-eligible recyclables.

00:42:52 Speaker 08: There is no cost incurred; it would be the sole responsibility of each business.

00:42:54 Speaker 08: No cost incurred to the board or to the municipality.

00:42:54 Speaker 08: River District businesses would no longer be able to put cardboard or recyclables at the curb for collection.

00:42:54 Speaker 08: Staff received communication from David Hanson earlier today indicating his strong support for Option four.

00:42:54 Speaker 08: The recommendation is that, in consideration of staff report CS 2026-008 respecting the non-eligible collection options review post-municipal extension, the River District Board provide direction with respect to the options presented for non-eligible collection, recycling,

00:42:55 Speaker 08: and cardboard for the businesses within the boundary of the River District.

00:42:55 Speaker 08: Any questions or comments?

00:42:55 Speaker 08: Tim, you've got your hand up; I can see it.

00:42:56 Speaker 08: I think that there's room for discussion here.

00:42:56 Speaker 08: At first, my first gut reaction is: it is not uncommon for businesses to pay for their own recycling pickup/garbage pickup when it is outside of what we call a residential quantity.

00:42:56 Speaker 08: So in other markets where we have locations, we do pay for private service.

00:42:57 Speaker 08: Now one thing that we actually do is we have a partnership with some neighboring businesses to share that bid; so I think that is something that can also be explored on the private side.

00:42:57 Speaker 08: As for the amounts that we're looking at here—$50,000, $70,000—I don't see that as being a viable line item in our budget.

00:42:57 Speaker 08: Anyone else care to comment?

00:42:58 Speaker 08: I have a question.

00:42:58 Speaker 08: Question?

00:42:59 Speaker 08: Yes... approached the...

00:42:59 Speaker 08: No. Oh, you have a question, sir.

00:42:59 Speaker 08: Okay.

00:42:59 Speaker 08: This is for staff: do we have a sense of how many businesses are currently paying for their own recyclables to be removed from downtown?

00:43:00 Speaker 08: Nobody.

00:43:01 Speaker 08: Nobody.

00:43:02 Speaker 08: Not right.

00:43:02 Speaker 08: Yeah.

00:43:02 Speaker 08: I don't think that's through the chair if I could just get back to the November River District report on budget and how many members pay the levy.

00:43:03 Speaker 08: Sorry.

00:43:03 Speaker 08: The draft 2026 budget talks about how many properties are in the area.

00:43:03 Speaker 08: There are two hundred and fifty-three properties here, so there is a total of 253 properties.

00:43:04 Speaker 08: The average levy is based on that number and it's based on assessment.

00:43:04 Speaker 08: Here I think we would have about seventy-five businesses if I'm right that would be subject to being supported through any decision the board makes today.

00:43:04 Speaker 08: Are there any businesses presently paying to have their own stuff removed?

00:43:04 Speaker 08: Through the chair, I would say larger businesses for example like a large grocery store probably has private pickup currently and large residential apartments may have that too.

00:43:05 Speaker 08: Perhaps professional buildings places like that already arrange for private pickup.

00:43:05 Speaker 08: I could add that certainly the Enhancement Centre right beside us and two of the pizza places in our block have pickup for both cardboard.

00:43:06 Speaker 08: Pardon?

00:43:06 Speaker 08: Use the mic.

00:43:07 Speaker 08: I think Channing's has pickup too yeah and they're in that corner.

00:43:07 Speaker 08: Vice Chair, yes so April 1st is the rollover time.

00:43:07 Speaker 08: When do we have to make a decision?

00:43:07 Speaker 08: What's the drop-dead date for a decision?

00:43:07 Speaker 08: We have a meeting March 11th and the only reason I'm asking that is I really don't have a sense of what kind of hardship it would be on individual businesses to have to pay.

00:43:08 Speaker 08: We're getting the group rate here and I've got a challenge with that because there's no way to recoup that money because we are based on assessments so we can't just increase what we bring in

00:43:08 Speaker 08: next year to cover those costs.

00:43:08 Speaker 08: So that is a chunk right out of our budget that we're not going to see, and I think we know it's probably just going to go up as like everything else does in the future.

00:43:08 Speaker 08: So I guess what I'm wondering is if we can push this decision to our March 11th meeting.

00:43:08 Speaker 08: If that doesn't give us an opportunity to reach out to the membership either through an online poll that we could quickly do or even with block captains going out knocking on doors and getting a

00:43:09 Speaker 08: sense of just what the impact is going to be because I know if all the businesses downtown are making money hand over fist and they're saying yeah we could do this it's no. I know

00:43:09 Speaker 08: I know what the answer is but I think we really do need to have a better understanding of what it means to the businesses because in my reading of our constitution this really technically isn't

00:43:09 Speaker 08: something that we're supposed to be doing as a River District board.

00:43:09 Speaker 08: It's you know we're to promote the downtown although I suppose you could say under the beautification part maybe we're going to keep the downtown beautiful by removing recycling but again I think it's better to

00:43:09 Speaker 08: get a feel from the membership and I think an email poll would be the fastest way to do it personally and the most accurate.

00:43:09 Speaker 08: So Council done thank you Chair.

00:43:10 Speaker 08: I would just note like these are great discussions that we should have been having four months ago six months ago prior to the budget being approved.

00:43:11 Speaker 08: Council just approved this River District budget in our last meeting so at this point even making a recommendation that we're going to make a change I'm not even sure of the process to allow council

00:43:11 Speaker 08: to change your budget probably would require rescinding it and then moving forward and I'm not sure what the full extent of that would be.

00:43:11 Speaker 08: Otherwise you're using reserves or reserve balance.

00:43:11 Speaker 08: I know in the report it said it was $170,000 but if we looked at what our estimates were based on the budget provided to us from Kate is closer to $150 because we had already

00:43:11 Speaker 08: allocated some there and one this year was a $10,000 contribution to increase that.

00:43:12 Speaker 08: But the costs we're talking about here are somewhere between 11% and 27% of the overall operating budget of this board.

00:43:12 Speaker 08: I don't know what the rest of the membership thinks has on perspective but when you send 11% to 27% of the overall budget towards operational cost that isn't enhancing the downtown.

00:43:12 Speaker 08: It may reduce a cost for your private business but I don't think that's creating an enhancement to the core so I do struggle with the fact regarding one procedural aspect and the timing of the

00:43:13 Speaker 08: request we're even looking at it.

00:43:13 Speaker 08: It took many years to get the reserve budget to where it is so that way when a strap plan comes out or when we're talking about exterior lighting to beautify the downtown you know when

00:43:14 Speaker 08: we hear the challenges people are saying they face in the downtown I haven't heard many people from the downtown general public who attend meetings say that it's all about recycling.

00:43:14 Speaker 08: It is an operational expense for businesses and that's a challenge but if we're trying to say what brings people to the downtown core and what will entice them to stay downtown which really is generally

00:43:14 Speaker 08: our job I don't think that's it so I have a hard time procedurally saying how you would do this.

00:43:14 Speaker 08: If you approve it yes it's going to come from reserves and I think that opens up full discussion again on the budget as a whole not just this one-off piece.

00:43:15 Speaker 08: We're saying okay we're going to spend $72,000 for curbside pickup but I don't think you make that decision in one meeting right now.

00:43:15 Speaker 08: That's the whole purpose of why we have public meetings assigned in the budget so those comments come back and this board makes recommendations then it is provided to council for final approval.

00:43:16 Speaker 08: And for me if we go forward with a decision whether today or in March we're missing the whole process of what was the point of having a public meeting.

00:43:16 Speaker 08: I think that will open up discussion on saying what else are we doing or aren't we doing going forward?

00:43:16 Speaker 08: I don't think it's just adding this and then stopping there so if we make that decision we're probably also getting rid of other things maybe cutting items out of the budget currently to offset that

00:43:16 Speaker 08: cost.

00:43:16 Speaker 08: So for me I've got a little bit of hesitation on it from multiple fronts.

00:43:17 Speaker 08: I know we've heard from multiple members of the nonprofit community talking about you know United Way made a comment about their pickup as well as the Harmony Centre about how we can find a way

00:43:17 Speaker 08: and maybe there is a way the River District Board could organize some groupings of people to do this wholesale together but at this point I just don't know if I could support something where we're

00:43:17 Speaker 08: adding a 27% increase.

00:43:17 Speaker 08: Well not even an increase to the budget because as Vice Chair Thomas noted we are kind of capped on what we can bring in based on assessment value so I'm struggling with the report from

00:43:18 Speaker 08: my councillor perspective.

00:43:19 Speaker 08: The reason we provided a three-month extension was to give the public an opportunity to find alternate sources that was the reason for the extension.

00:43:19 Speaker 08: Everyone's taxes are already paying $60,000 and they're already paying sixty thousand dollars to extend it by three months so I do think the opportunity for this discussion has passed.

00:43:19 Speaker 08: My own personal opinion is this isn't a new thing and secondly I just don't know how we would go forward with this given our budget constraints.

00:43:19 Speaker 08: Those are my comments.

00:43:19 Speaker 08: Your comments lend themselves to option five which is what I suggest.

00:43:20 Speaker 08: And certainly I have received several calls from smaller members indicating that they do not want us to spend any more money on anything.

00:43:20 Speaker 08: There were two or three who said if anything was done it would be cardboard only but the majority of people who have been in touch with me have said no we'll deal with it ourselves

00:43:21 Speaker 08: and a few indicated that they load up their station wagon or vehicle and for six dollars fifty cents carted waste to Miller Waste and drew attention to the fact that in the past there used

00:43:21 Speaker 08: to be no charge for doing that so they'd make sure they went whenever they felt like.

00:43:23 Speaker 08: So at $6.50 though I do believe Miller Waste will take as much as you can bring them in whatever vehicle you use.

00:43:23 Speaker 08: Is that not correct?

00:43:23 Speaker 08: Pam?

00:43:24 Speaker 08: Through you, Chair.

00:43:24 Speaker 08: I would only be guessing if that's what you've heard.

00:43:25 Speaker 08: And as you know, we can't really direct questions that way.

00:43:25 Speaker 08: But we could follow up with the board with that information if you'd like.

00:43:27 Speaker 11: Thanks.

00:43:27 Speaker 11: Any other comments?

00:43:27 Speaker 11: Yes, Tim.

00:43:28 Speaker 11: I think Councillor Todd...

00:43:28 Speaker 11: Procedurally, you are not.

00:43:28 Speaker 11: As a councillor, are you procedurally?

00:43:28 Speaker 11: Yeah.

00:43:29 Speaker 11: No, I'm.

00:43:29 Speaker 11: I can hand it over.

00:43:30 Speaker 11: So, well, no one sees that this is on camera.

00:43:30 Speaker 11: That's Councilor Middlebro who we're just talking about.

00:43:30 Speaker 11: If I think the Councillor Dodd had an interesting point that he briefly touched on, and that is: Is there an opportunity for us to work with the members?

00:43:33 Speaker 11: For an opt-in based wholesale program for recycling pickup, where maybe they...

00:43:33 Speaker 11: Maybe we aren't spreading it across the two hundred and some levy payers, but those who require it are able to access wholesale-based rates based on some economy of scale,

00:43:37 Speaker 11: albeit not the entirety of the economy of scale.

00:43:38 Speaker 11: Would you like?

00:43:38 Speaker 11: Yes.

00:43:38 Speaker 11: Go ahead.

00:43:38 Speaker 11: There we go.

00:43:38 Speaker 11: Okay.

00:43:39 Speaker 11: I am just wondering if this is something that we could do through a poll as well.

00:43:39 Speaker 11: Actually, if we were able to reach out to community members and our River District business owners, and see if there is...

00:43:39 Speaker 11: For us to just see where the interest would be if we were to have an option for cardboard specifically; if they're looking for a bigger option,

00:43:40 Speaker 11: and then we could from there try to put together some sort of plan as well so that people can opt in if they choose to,

00:43:40 Speaker 11: and we would know exactly what price point would be ideal.

00:43:41 Speaker 11: And give everybody an opportunity to speak about what works for them, and potentially go from there because it sounds like...

00:43:41 Speaker 11: Well, looking at a budget of something like $77,000 for the year when our reserve has over $100,000 but that takes us through two years; doesn't really seem feasible.

00:43:42 Speaker 11: So if offering an amount of money to be able to provide a program like this might be a reasonable thing to give everybody an opportunity to kind of express what works best and maybe develop

00:43:43 Speaker 11: a wholesale program that way so that we can offer business owners something that probably would work best instead of just sort of making an assumption right now about whether we should jump in on something.

00:43:43 Speaker 11: Thanks, Member Langit.

00:43:43 Speaker 11: Would you like to speak?

00:43:43 Speaker 11: Well, I've had my wrist shot before, so you're welcome.

00:43:44 Speaker 11: Thank you.

00:43:44 Speaker 11: Through your Chair, I'm Melanie Middlebro'.

00:43:44 Speaker 11: I own the Rocking Horse Downtown and I also sit on City Council.

00:43:44 Speaker 11: So I think my comments on this is that as a business owner, I've kind of been waiting for this knowing that we have to have something done by March 1st.

00:43:44 Speaker 11: I was waiting for the River District Board to provide guidance because my idea was that it didn't really make sense for 85 individual businesses to have to make the call to Miller Waste and figure

00:43:45 Speaker 11: out:

00:43:45 Speaker 11: Can you come pick up my waste Wednesday at three o'clock once a week or twice a week?

00:43:46 Speaker 11: I figured on mass we would get a better deal if we all worked together and had one day of pickup.

00:43:46 Speaker 11: For me, I really don't need the recycling part; I just need the cardboard pickup.

00:43:47 Speaker 11: Like I generate quite a bit of cardboard and it really isn't feasible for me to have to put it in a vehicle and drive it to Miller Waste.

00:43:47 Speaker 11: I'd have to take multiple trips, multiple times, to do that.

00:43:47 Speaker 11: So I'm not asking the River District to pay for it; I'm asking for you to work on an option to present to the businesses whether A, B,

00:43:47 Speaker 11: C or D and figure out what works best for most people.

00:43:47 Speaker 11: And I'm happy to contribute financially towards that.

00:43:48 Speaker 11: But I just figured that it would make sense for us to do it on mass instead of piecemeal.

00:43:49 Speaker 11: And I figured even if other businesses are having their own pickup now that they're paying for it, might be a better deal for them to go in with the group;

00:43:49 Speaker 11: they might achieve better financial savings.

00:43:49 Speaker 11: So that's what I'm looking to the board for.

00:43:49 Speaker 11: Yes ma'am.

00:43:50 Speaker 11: Thank you Mr Chair.

00:43:50 Speaker 11: And just listening to the discussion, I think my colleague Vivica would be able to develop a survey.

00:43:50 Speaker 11: It would maybe ask questions like: "Are you a River District member?"

00:43:53 Speaker 11: So then with the results we would know: Is it the general public saying this or is it a River District member?

00:43:53 Speaker 11: Members so you know you would probably be most interested in those members.

00:43:54 Speaker 11: If the River District was moving toward option five,

00:43:54 Speaker 11: we could sort of survey their interest in participating in what I call a wholesale or joint venture contract while we as the River District might be able to support those individual contracts between the business

00:43:54 Speaker 11: owner and Miller Waste;

00:43:54 Speaker 11: they would be independent but maybe there would be a bulk price and we could explore that you know as part of a follow-up report in March reporting some findings from a survey if that's what's

00:43:56 Speaker 11: of interest to the board.

00:43:58 Speaker 11: Vice Chair, I would move option five and I would ask that staff prepare B:

00:43:58 Speaker 11: Follow up with a survey of River District members who will require the service and find some way to coordinate a pickup among them as well as negotiate a rate with Miller Waste for cardboard pickup.

00:43:59 Speaker 11: Yes Melanie are you looking for a pickup as opposed to having to drive it somewhere?

00:43:59 Speaker 11: Is that the key to this? Thank you. All right we have a motion yes You were just waving Okay it's all good Thanks All right Could you repeat the motion for us Stacy or do you want Richard to... Richard? I move option five and further add that staff prepare a survey of the businesses affected and see whether we can coordinate cardboard pickup for those businesses at a rate negotiated through Miller Waste that they would all share in if that makes sense. Yeah Member Robinson So are we doing just cardboard or are we wanting whatever survey is going out asking do you want just cardboard or do you want bulk wholesale pricing as a group or whatever for both? Because from my business standpoint we have both and we have a lot of both I do know there's other businesses down in the River District that are predominantly cardboard but then there will be others that are predominantly recyclables So I don't know if it's okay to include both in it and not just go straight to the cardboard route As there are like restaurants that will have everything but then there are stores like Melanie said that are a lot of cardboard I know their runners done they're tons of cardboard But then you do have like stores like The Milkmaid which has a little bit of everything So I think keeping the options open so that we're not just tailgating it to straight cardboard to see what businesses need and then if we can get bulk pricing or wholesale pricing for those that are interested and maybe work on if there's like one place for a certain block or whatever that could be a pickup point. Friendly amendment Yes I would take that as a friendly amendment and change from cardboard to recycling generally but cycling generally but maybe you want to break down the survey to see who prefers which so we've got an idea how much uptake there'll be on either side All in favor of the motion Carried Thank You We're adjourned