Owen Sound Committee - Operations Meeting Transcript — May 21, 2026

00:00:17 Speaker 01: At this time, I'll call the meeting to order.

00:00:20 Speaker 01: And just look to my right.

00:00:21 Speaker 01: Wonder if Member Jordan, if you can just go to the microphone and place yourself within the room, and I'll go then subsequently to your left. Michelle Hawkins, public member. Arlene Blueindo, public member. Scott Greig, deputy mayor. Alida Schutter, public member. John Farmer, councillor. Carol Merton, councillor. Don Anderson, public. Donald Anderson, public member.

00:01:00 Speaker 01: Mason Bellamy, manager, public works and engineering.

00:01:04 Speaker 01: Laura Woodfield, director, public works and engineering.

00:01:08 Speaker 01: Kate Allen, director of corporate services and city treasurer.

00:01:14 Speaker 01: Gracie Dolan, manager, water and wastewater.

00:01:17 Speaker 01: And I'll just note that we've got all of committee in attendance this evening.

00:01:21 Speaker 01: Councillor Hamley is joining us virtually, so we will advance. to item two, which is call for additional business.

00:01:30 Speaker 01: I'll look to my left, Councillor Merton, then Member Anderson. Through you, Chair.

00:01:36 Speaker 02: One item for additional business.

00:01:38 Speaker 02: If staff could provide an update on the incident that involved a child being struck at Alpha and Thirteenth Street A West, please. Member Anderson. Through you, Mr. Chair.

00:01:54 Speaker 03: Share some information I can share with the committee about Global Accessibility Awareness Day.

00:01:59 Speaker 03: Thank you, and I, Councillor Farmer.

00:02:01 Speaker 04: Thank you, through the chair.

00:02:03 Speaker 04: I'll just have a question for staff around opportunities for public outreach around traffic calming.

00:02:11 Speaker 05: Okay, and not seeing any from staff or to my right. So, declarations of interest.

00:02:18 Speaker 05: The third item before us this evening.

00:02:20 Speaker 05: Are there any declarations to be declared at this time?

00:02:23 Speaker 05: Not. seeing any item four is confirmations of minutes.

00:02:27 Speaker 05: I will note for committee's interest that these minutes were adopted and passed by council, with the exception of advancing the Fourth Avenue West Reconstruction Project, which will be retendered later this year.

00:02:40 Speaker 05: Then deferred and retendered is the direction or the intent at this time.

00:02:47 Speaker 05: So I'm just looking for someone to move receipt of those minutes, Member. Anderson has so moved.

00:02:53 Speaker 05: Are there any questions to the minutes? Not seeing any.

00:02:58 Speaker 05: All those in favor of receipt? That's carried unanimously. Thank you.

00:03:03 Speaker 05: We have no deputations this evening.

00:03:06 Speaker 05: Item six is public forum, and all the chairs are empty this evening in front of us.

00:03:12 Speaker 05: So there's no one tending to the podium.

00:03:17 Speaker 05: Item seven is correspondence received.

00:03:19 Speaker 05: There are no items this evening. for consideration, so we're quickly to item eight, which is the first of several reports from city staff.

00:03:27 Speaker 05: This one regarding the sanitary sewer flow monitoring initiative, and I'll look to Lara to present this. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

00:03:37 Speaker 06: This report was requested by Council as part of the budget deliberation process in December.

00:03:47 Speaker 06: There was a request to explain what. what exactly inflow and infiltration monitoring is, so we've outlined that in this report.

00:04:00 Speaker 06: Essentially, we're outlining that we're going to be launching a program over time in order to reduce the amount of rainwater getting into our sanitary sewer system, because in short,

00:04:12 Speaker 06: it causes environmental damage and costs the city money in order to pay for. treating that extra water, if anybody has any questions, I would be happy to answer them.

00:04:26 Speaker 07: And are there Councillor Farmer then Member Scherder next?

00:04:31 Speaker 04: Thank you, through the chair.

00:04:32 Speaker 04: The report speaks to the issue of potentially private residences or or buildings being hooked up directly through some historic legacy to the storm sewers.

00:04:41 Speaker 04: To the storm sewer, and references the possibility of future programs or grants to address that.

00:04:52 Speaker 04: Could you give us more information about whether all of those property owners would know that they're connected to the sanitary or the storm sewer, and like how how does that work? How does someone know? Thank you, Councilor Farmer. Through you, Mr. Chair. Excellent question.

00:05:12 Speaker 06: There's a lot there to unpack.

00:05:16 Speaker 06: We're talking about foundation drainage systems that are connected to the sanitary sewer, not the storm sewer, and that is because essentially it's draining groundwater into the sanitary sewer.

00:05:29 Speaker 06: And groundwater is typically considered clean, so you don't you don't need that to go to the sanitary sewer.

00:05:49 Speaker 06: That's normally treated with sump pumps that pump it up to above grade and usually onto your lawn and some. some area of your property.

00:05:59 Speaker 06: Whether people would know that they're connected or not, not necessarily.

00:06:01 Speaker 06: There are a lot of people that wouldn't necessarily know it, especially if they don't have a sump pump.

00:06:03 Speaker 06: They probably just would never have thought of it.

00:06:04 Speaker 06: If they have a sump pump, there, for some strange reason, in this particular area, and by this area I mean like sort of Gray Bruce,

00:06:11 Speaker 06: I haven't come across. it in other places that I've worked.

00:06:14 Speaker 06: They have sump pumps actually connected back into the sanitary sewer, so like they have their sump pump dumping into like a laundry tub or something, and it goes back into the sewer,

00:06:23 Speaker 06: which is sort of redundant.

00:06:26 Speaker 06: So those would be relatively easy fixes.

00:06:29 Speaker 06: Those ones people would probably know where it's going because it's usually coming out like inside their living space.

00:06:38 Speaker 06: The reason why that is bad is because. if too much rainwater is going through their sanitary lateral at the same time as, you know,

00:06:48 Speaker 06: if they try to flush the toilet or do a load of laundry or something, it could exceed the capacity and it could end up backing up into their own house,

00:06:55 Speaker 06: usually through a floor drain or if they have a shower in the basement level.

00:06:59 Speaker 06: Those are usually the two lowest points in the house, and yes, the programs that I mentioned in the report that. this would be like the very embryonic stage of that.

00:07:13 Speaker 06: Like this, that would be much farther in the future because that's sort of at a point of less bang for the municipal buck, I guess. But there is a.

00:07:25 Speaker 06: I would I would assume that there's a significant problem with private side extraneous flow coming into the system.

00:07:31 Speaker 06: But that's why we need to do the flow monitoring to determine the. the nature of the extraneous flow and where it's coming from, so that we can sort of pinpoint particular neighborhoods.

00:07:44 Speaker 06: We can guess based on the date of development, like the you know if it was before before the eighty s, maybe before the sixty s.

00:07:56 Speaker 06: Depends on that, like the the architectural standards at the time.

00:08:03 Speaker 06: Pretty good chance that is the foundation drains are connected to sanitary sewer, but.

00:08:05 Speaker 06: To the sanitary sewer, but it could be that they've already made those changes since then.

00:08:11 Speaker 06: And then, also in the ninety s, there was a ninety s and early two thousand s.

00:08:14 Speaker 06: There was a trend to connect those systems to the storm sewer, which also isn't good because the storm sewer is meant to surcharge during major storm events, which also causes flooding.

00:08:27 Speaker 06: But that is not what we're talking about right now.

00:08:30 Speaker 06: That's also a problem, but that's not what we're talking about.

00:08:34 Speaker 06: So the program would typically involve something along the lines of an inspection confirming that the house is connected to the sanitary sewer, like or the foundation drains or whatnot is connected to sanitary sewer.

00:08:49 Speaker 06: They would get a building permit as appropriate, get a contractor, install a sump pump,

00:08:56 Speaker 06: probably a backflow preventer on their sanitary lateral because more than likely they wouldn't already have one. and then the city would write them a check or whatever,

00:09:07 Speaker 06: issue them a like some kind of refund for some of their cost.

00:09:13 Speaker 06: We currently have a system like that for that that we have used, but it's a very very small pot of money, and right now we've been using it to deal with like commercial properties,

00:09:26 Speaker 06: particularly in the downtown because those big flat roofs can contribute a lot of rain.

00:09:56 Speaker 04: Can contribute a lot of rainwater, so that's that's where that money is spent, and it also is predicated by the fact that the property owner is willing to participate. That's the other issue.

00:10:05 Speaker 04: So, was there any component of that question that I didn't answer yet?

00:10:07 Speaker 04: Through the chair, I think that answers the original question.

00:10:09 Speaker 04: My my curiosity now then is whether there's any benefit to a press release or something that says if you. want to avoid getting your back up,

00:10:11 Speaker 04: help us make sure your flow is going where it should, and in the cases of easily identifiable sump pumps draining into like obvious drains,

00:10:16 Speaker 04: assuming that people would be motivated by doing the right thing and avoiding sewage in their basement.

00:10:23 Speaker 04: Thank you, through you, Mr. Chair.

00:10:25 Speaker 06: Yes, there would be a big campaign around this. at some point.

00:10:31 Speaker 06: We could do some generalized messaging about that.

00:10:36 Speaker 06: We've been meaning to do, or maybe we already have.

00:10:38 Speaker 06: I've been speaking with communications about doing some messaging about, you know, flushable wipes aren't actually flushable, that type of thing.

00:10:44 Speaker 06: So, like this, this would go nicely with that type of sort of. Remember us, you know.

00:10:51 Speaker 06: This is these are some helpful tips that help you and also help the greater good. So, yeah. Good.

00:11:00 Speaker 08: So yes, thank you, Member Shooter. Then Member Jordan next. Through you, Chair.

00:11:05 Speaker 08: So my question was just around the time of monitoring before action.

00:11:10 Speaker 08: It just says that we're going to do monitoring and the cost for it annually.

00:11:13 Speaker 08: But I was just wondering how long that monitoring is planning to happen before improvements. Thank you, Member Shooter. Through you, Mr. Chair.

00:11:24 Speaker 06: I would. anticipate, unless it was something simple like catch basins connected to the wrong sewer and there was a readily available storm sewer nearby, typically it would be the following year,

00:11:37 Speaker 06: if not potentially two years after, in order for us to figure out design requirements and ensure that we have a budget, an appropriate budget for that type of thing.

00:11:49 Speaker 06: But it wouldn't be a huge amount of time because obviously we want to try to get these things done as quickly as possible.

00:11:54 Speaker 06: What we can get done, like I mentioned, the catch basin type thing, that could get done by our own staff relatively quickly.

00:12:01 Speaker 06: Other stuff could take some more time. Thank you, Member Jordan. Through the chair.

00:12:11 Speaker 09: If memory serves me correctly, this is not a new issue.

00:12:14 Speaker 09: This interconnection between sanitary storm sewers.

00:12:18 Speaker 09: If I recall, that has been studied in the past by the city. and I'm wondering whatever became of follow-up to those older reports, and why we're still looking at it. Thank you, Member Jordan. Through you, Mr. Chair.

00:12:34 Speaker 06: Yes, and in fact, that's mentioned in the report that in the sixty s or so, large interceptor sewers were installed.

00:12:43 Speaker 06: Previous to that, previous to our wastewater treatment plant, the water wastewater was essentially just let discharge into. the into the sound.

00:12:53 Speaker 06: In the 60s, there was a big push from I think Environment Canada, potentially at the time, to capture all of those.

00:13:01 Speaker 06: Hence the term interceptor caught all those flows.

00:13:04 Speaker 06: But at the structures where where they're connected, there still are open cross connections, and we do have flow monitors in all of those cross connection points already all the time. so we monitor those,

00:13:13 Speaker 06: and that's how we know how much spillage we have during our overflow events.

00:13:26 Speaker 06: That's how that helps us calculate the volumes that are overflowed that we have to provide to the Ministry of Environment, Conservation, and Parks.

00:13:34 Speaker 06: What we're trying to do now is to try to chase it upstream so that we can get more granular with where the the type of extraneous flow it is, and where it's coming from,

00:13:47 Speaker 06: whether it's leaking pipes or cross connections that maybe, for example, an old industrial property was level like demolished, but the storm system or the combined sewer system at the time wasn't properly decommissioned,

00:14:07 Speaker 06: and it's dumping all kinds.

00:14:08 Speaker 06: You know that that that's an example of the type of things that we're looking for, because it could be coming from a variety of different sources.

00:14:15 Speaker 06: So the flow. monitoring, with it being able to move into discrete catchment areas on an annual basis, it will help us sort of pinpoint over time where we should be spending our money.

00:14:34 Speaker 09: Is there any recollection of the staff going around and putting smoke bombs in the sewers and watching for smoke coming out of the wrong chimney?

00:14:42 Speaker 06: Through you, Mr. Chair, I understand that that has been done here.

00:14:48 Speaker 06: I've done smoke testing myself with mixed results.

00:14:53 Speaker 06: There are a lot of reasons why smoke testing isn't a hundred percent.

00:14:57 Speaker 06: It's not a silver bullet.

00:14:59 Speaker 06: It's not a magic bullet, because if there are blockages in lines, or gauze traps in catch basins and that type of thing, it will stop the smoke so you won't see it. They're useful for down.

00:15:13 Speaker 06: For downspouts, but again, if there are any kind of blockages or ponding water in the lines anywhere between the smoke and the outlet point where it's supposed to vent, it could block the smoke.

00:15:28 Speaker 06: So it's a it's a tool in the toolbox, but it's not the only tool.

00:15:39 Speaker 05: Okay, not seeing any other questions, Councilor. Questions, Councillor Hamley. Any questions online? Okay, none there.

00:15:48 Speaker 05: Just to build off Member Jordan's questions, I wondered the same thing in reading this.

00:15:51 Speaker 05: I mean, we do these these smoke testing measures every couple years.

00:15:58 Speaker 05: It seems like we do a press release notifying the the public.

00:16:02 Speaker 05: So I wonder the same thing.

00:16:06 Speaker 05: What are we trying to achieve here?

00:16:08 Speaker 05: Because at some point. it just wasn't building code where there's certain ages of homes that are not connected to the sanitary,

00:16:19 Speaker 05: and I wondered what the value for for money might be on on this project because the report does note it's an additional seventy-five thousand dollars per year. Why not?

00:16:33 Speaker 05: Like many years ago, we identified the downtown.

00:16:36 Speaker 05: Obviously, all the flat roofs.

00:16:37 Speaker 05: You mentioned it and. and it was tackled by the city, and and we certainly, I think, captured a large amount of the the properties that were discharging right into the sanitary. Was there not? Have we not?

00:16:52 Speaker 05: The report, when I read through it, indicate like I felt like it dismissed work that we've done in the past, and I just wondered like we have a various amount of east side service.

00:17:06 Speaker 05: Amount of east side servicing study and all these different master plans have been done since the building code would have changed.

00:17:12 Speaker 05: How do we know the takeaways or the benefits here will surpass, I guess, the cost?

00:17:33 Speaker 05: Just given that it's, we've we should have probably identified the big ones in the past.

00:17:42 Speaker 05: Like you know, if it's a summit place or a large flat roof retirement home, why have we not maybe tackled that in the past or or identified it?

00:17:44 Speaker 05: We need to do another. study. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

00:17:46 Speaker 06: I'd like to draw your attention to Attachment One of the report.

00:17:58 Speaker 06: It shows essentially a flow diagram in the sanitary sewer near the wastewater treatment plant, and the the portion near the beginning of the chart.

00:18:08 Speaker 06: It starts out at six hundred liters per second. and then it sort of sort of trends down slightly, and that's because in the days prior to that that this data set there was some rain.

00:18:16 Speaker 06: You see that it it sort of it zigzags up and down on a fairly rhythmic pattern.

00:18:24 Speaker 06: That's your daily flow pattern.

00:18:27 Speaker 06: People have a tendency to use water in the morning, and then at dinner. time, there's another peak when we all wash our dishes and kids have baths and whatnot, and then everybody goes to bed.

00:18:40 Speaker 06: And at the overnight, it's at a low.

00:19:02 Speaker 06: So then, by the time you get to see, it starts at April 5th, and then by the time you get to about April 12th,

00:19:11 Speaker 06: it jumps right up from two. hundred or so liters per second, up to a high of twelve hundred, almost, and that is the impact of a rain event.

00:19:13 Speaker 06: That weekend or that that series of few days, we had about ninety nine millimeters of rain, and that equated to that rapid response.

00:19:19 Speaker 06: That that so that initial extremely fast rise in flow indicates that there's water direct.

00:19:29 Speaker 06: That there's water directly entering the system somehow.

00:19:32 Speaker 06: That's because it's a very short time of concentration, which is the amount of time that it takes for a drop of water to get from where it lands into the sewer.

00:19:43 Speaker 06: And then you see the zigzags up and down.

00:19:46 Speaker 06: The peaks are very high.

00:19:47 Speaker 06: It's a very exaggerated daily curve for the next three or so days, and it starts to gradually trend downward. as the ground essentially dries out, and that is an effect of infiltration, which is essentially,

00:20:09 Speaker 06: typically, a slow leak of some kind, like water trickling into a leaky pipe or groundwater getting into foundation drains.

00:20:19 Speaker 06: It's a slow sort of draining of a sponge effect, and then a few days after that, it's sort of level.

00:20:27 Speaker 06: After that, it's sort of leveled out.

00:20:28 Speaker 06: It's been dry for a while, and things get back to normal, where you see a really nice, average flow pattern between April 25th or so until about the 29th.

00:20:44 Speaker 06: So, if you compare that to the impact of the rain event, that it's indisputable.

00:20:53 Speaker 06: The the impact that the rainwater is having on our system.

00:20:58 Speaker 06: So, even though we have I'm have done a lot of work in the past, we have flow monitors in our interceptor sewer, which I think actually is where some of this information,

00:21:10 Speaker 06: where this data might have come from.

00:21:12 Speaker 06: But I think it may also be from the level meter at the plant level level meter at the plant.

00:21:18 Speaker 06: Okay, but we do we do have monitors that are showing us this information. It's undeniable.

00:21:27 Speaker 01: I appreciate that response because it's good to be able to communicate that back to residents because they've certainly seen us.

00:21:34 Speaker 01: It's not like we haven't been expending resources over many years on trying to resolve or correct what we know is the problem.

00:21:43 Speaker 01: So this shows that it's still a continuance.

00:21:45 Speaker 01: So just before I go to Councilor Farmer, we do have a recommendation that, in consideration of the staff report respecting the sanitary sewer flow monitoring. Initiative.

00:21:53 Speaker 01: The Operations Committee recommends City Council receive the report for information purposes.

00:21:57 Speaker 01: Can I have a mover of that, Councilor Farmer? So moved.

00:22:00 Speaker 01: I don't need a seconder.

00:22:02 Speaker 01: So I'll just go back to Councilor Farmer before I call the vote.

00:22:06 Speaker 01: Thank you, through the chair.

00:22:07 Speaker 01: I just want to go back.

00:22:09 Speaker 04: I think it was March that we got the annual 2025 wastewater report that highlighted that the peak flow hit 90% of plant capacity in a major event in March of 202.

00:22:25 Speaker 04: Major event in March of 2025, and that otherwise we're operating on a regular basis.

00:22:43 Speaker 04: I think in that meeting we discussed what, like 40 or something of on a regular basis, and that if the yeah, I'll let staff correct my numbers there for our base flow,

00:22:53 Speaker 04: but that if we're talking about that percentage of increase or additional stress, that yeah, to me I think this this project makes sense.

00:22:55 Speaker 06: But we talked about that months ago, so I'll let staff correct me.

00:22:57 Speaker 06: Months ago, so let staff correct me if I'm wrong. Three, Mr. Chair.

00:22:59 Speaker 06: No, I don't think I think you're fairly close.

00:23:04 Speaker 06: I was going to say closer to 50%, but yeah, you're.

00:23:08 Speaker 05: I don't think I need to correct you. Okay. Thanks for the questions. Not seeing any further.

00:23:14 Speaker 05: All those in favor of the recommendation to receive the report, and that is carried. Thank you.

00:23:21 Speaker 05: And I will go. back to actually to Kate.

00:23:32 Speaker 10: We'll welcome Kate to the meeting.

00:23:39 Speaker 10: She doesn't usually join the operations committee, but she's here for a pretty big purpose here this evening to introduce the proposed water rate.

00:23:41 Speaker 10: So over to you, Kate. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

00:23:43 Speaker 10: This is our annual water rate and sewer surcharge update.

00:23:45 Speaker 10: We usually try to bring this report each year in line with the user fees and charges that would have been reviewed by this committee last month.

00:23:49 Speaker 10: Effectively, all these new rates and fees go into effect July one.

00:23:51 Speaker 10: Every five years, we are required to do sort of a comprehensive financial plan, and we do that with the help of a consultant.

00:23:57 Speaker 10: The last two plans, at least, were supported by Hemson Consulting, and you will recall that they came to committee last year to present the results of their financial plan.

00:24:08 Speaker 10: So, really, for the next four years, including this one being the first one, we're sort of just providing an update within the context. of that financial plan that Hemson developed.

00:24:18 Speaker 10: The meat and potatoes of the report are in the appendices, and that's all the supporting information that feeds what the ultimate rate calculation would be.

00:24:26 Speaker 10: And that includes the operating budget, the capital plan, and the usage statistics.

00:24:33 Speaker 10: I also want to point out that we're not just developing rates to fund this year.

00:24:37 Speaker 10: We're developing a rate that will allow us to fund multi years of. services in a way that's stable and not volatile.

00:24:48 Speaker 10: I guess that means the same thing.

00:24:50 Speaker 10: But we don't want to just adjust every year when we have a big capital need, have the rates go up, and then realize, okay, we don't need as much next year,

00:24:58 Speaker 10: so we can cut the rate in half.

00:25:00 Speaker 10: We want a rate that we know is going to grow over time because costs are going up and our our the costs driving our services are going up.

00:25:07 Speaker 10: So the rate is going to have to increase, but we want it to be manageable year over year.

00:25:10 Speaker 10: That's the ultimate goal. of this.

00:25:13 Speaker 10: So ultimately, the report recommends maintaining the five percent increase to water rates that is consistent with Hemson's recommendation in the background study, and a reduction to the sewer surcharge from 124 down to 120 percent.

00:25:53 Speaker 10: So for the average household using approximately 200 cubic meters a year, that works out to a three percent increase, or roughly 13 or 13 dollars per bill.

00:26:03 Speaker 10: Thirteen dollars per billing statement.

00:26:04 Speaker 10: We send a bill every quarter currently.

00:26:05 Speaker 10: Other than that, the report walks through some of the drivers within operating for water.

00:26:07 Speaker 10: The two sort of changes since since Hempson looked at this are the addition of a quality management QMS coordinator, and that's to plan to start in 2027, as well as some debt that's mature.

00:26:33 Speaker 10: Some debt that's maturing, or sorry, debt that we're adding in 2027 for some capital projects that are currently underway.

00:26:43 Speaker 10: In the wastewater operating budget, we're including the additional 75,000 in 2027 for the project that Laura was just discussing, and that would be increasing to 150,000 a year starting in 2028.

00:26:45 Speaker 10: We also have some sort of ongoing condition assessment and maintenance activities. including flow monitoring, CCTV inspection, and manhole rehabilitation.

00:26:47 Speaker 10: Some of these, in the past, were included in the capital program, but since they're really annual programs, more focused on maintenance, we have reflected them more appropriately in the operating budget.

00:26:59 Speaker 10: Some of the considerations that we look at, and I should point out the reserve balances.

00:27:12 Speaker 10: Our goal is to maintain a reserve balance in water and wastewater that's sufficient to meet our. immediate capital needs, as well as have some contingency funding there for rate stabilization,

00:27:21 Speaker 10: because there is always going to be unknowns.

00:27:23 Speaker 10: But in addition to that, there are several future current studies currently underway or planned, which are expected to identify infrastructure needs, specifically mostly in water, that we don't necessarily know what those needs are,

00:27:29 Speaker 10: but we know that they're coming.

00:27:30 Speaker 10: It's going to identify them, and so we want to make sure that there is a little bit of extra capacity in those reserves in order to bring those. future projects into the budget,

00:27:38 Speaker 10: once we have a better sense of what the scope and value of those are.

00:27:44 Speaker 10: Another thing I discuss in the report is water consumption trends.

00:27:54 Speaker 10: We know that the new meters are better at recording low flow usage, and therefore our expectation was that we would see increased usage recorded as a result of implementing those new meters.

00:28:06 Speaker 10: That's also contrasted with the fact that water usage is volatile, all of the time.

00:28:10 Speaker 10: A wet spring, like the one that we're having, will actually decrease the amount of water that people are using.

00:28:16 Speaker 10: And especially if that persists into the summer, people aren't watering their lawns.

00:28:19 Speaker 10: There's a lot of activity that people do when we have dry weather that they're not doing when it's raining, or when it's hot. Technology advancements.

00:28:29 Speaker 10: So as we get more efficient appliances and things like that, people are just naturally using. less water, so those two things sort of balance against each other.

00:28:38 Speaker 10: And as of right now, we are not seeing a significant increase to our recorded water usage, and in fact, it's dropped since last year.

00:28:46 Speaker 10: Now, to really quantify the impact of the water meters, I think more appropriately, we need to wait a little bit longer.

00:28:50 Speaker 10: The majority of those meters were installed in the fall, so we don't have a full year's billing cycles to compare to.

00:28:56 Speaker 10: So it's really difficult to say what the annualized. impact of that is,

00:29:00 Speaker 10: so I do anticipate we'll be able to provide more fulsome analysis in future years' usage reports and future years' rate studies as a result of the water meters.

00:29:12 Speaker 10: Included in the report are some forecasts for reserve balances.

00:29:16 Speaker 10: The blue line in the two graphs reflects what the reserve balance is expected to be based on our plan spending.

00:29:24 Speaker 10: The red line is there's no legislated. target balance.

00:29:30 Speaker 10: However, that was a value that was provided by Hampson as given our asset management plan and the infrastructure gap.

00:29:36 Speaker 10: What we should be striving for, with respect to water and wastewater, as you can see, the wastewater one is getting closer to that target balance, whereas water is still well below.

00:29:48 Speaker 10: I've also included for your reference some comparator rates from the BMA study, which is completed every year.

00:29:55 Speaker 10: So this would be using rate.

00:29:59 Speaker 10: So this would be using rates that are annualized in 2025.

00:30:03 Speaker 10: What what a household and each of those commercial industrial, depending on meter size, would pay based on the same factor, the 200 cubic meters.

00:30:13 Speaker 10: Owens Sound in the Hemson report is estimated to be around $1,600 a year last year,

00:30:19 Speaker 10: and I would say that's that's right in line with sort of within the average median of this Gray Bruce region.

00:30:25 Speaker 10: There are some that are less than Owens Sound, but there.

00:30:29 Speaker 10: Some that are less than one cent, but there's certainly some that are significantly higher as well.

00:30:36 Speaker 10: And then finally, the next table is a bar chart that just shows, with the future rates that we're anticipating, what we expect the total bill will be each year.

00:30:39 Speaker 10: Knowing that rates are going to continue to go up, but what we want is that slope to be relatively flat.

00:30:45 Speaker 10: We don't want to see it steep, and we don't want to see it change.

00:30:48 Speaker 10: We want to see it a flat, stable increase over time.

00:30:54 Speaker 10: So with that, I won't go through all of the attachments.

00:30:57 Speaker 10: But certainly, if you have any questions, I'm happy that our staff from Public Works and Engineering are here.

00:31:04 Speaker 10: If we have questions about specific projects or the budget, but I'll pass it over to you. Thank you. Okay. Thanks, Kate.

00:31:23 Speaker 02: I'll go to Councillor Martin first. Through you, Chair.

00:31:27 Speaker 02: First of all, I think it's commendable. that the effort is towards affordability and to keep the rate percentage as reasonable as possible.

00:31:31 Speaker 02: Recognizing that even with the three percent, people will struggle.

00:31:35 Speaker 02: I think we are hearing affordability challenges throughout our city from various residents.

00:31:42 Speaker 02: So certainly, you know, it's acknowledged that even three percent may create financial hardships,

00:31:50 Speaker 02: but at least. the intention is to try and not have it so high that it's it's changing where we are in the median.

00:31:59 Speaker 02: My question has to do around the reserves.

00:32:03 Speaker 02: So, in the report, it does talk about what Henson had projected for the reserves, for capital, and you've referenced that in discussing that other studies will be coming forward. however,

00:32:21 Speaker 02: there is quite the quite the distance in the reserve balance.

00:32:26 Speaker 02: We know and are hearing that many municipalities are facing infrastructure challenges, especially around the water and wastewater, with minimal opportunity for getting funding.

00:32:40 Speaker 02: When I see the difference, it concerns me that the recommendation from Hemson is.

00:32:56 Speaker 02: We're below that, and I'm wondering.

00:32:59 Speaker 02: We definitely need to keep our systems and plan for the future.

00:33:01 Speaker 02: The concern I have is just the discrepancy of not being even close to where it was.

00:33:04 Speaker 02: We were advised to go. I understand why.

00:33:18 Speaker 02: Can you provide some sort of assurance around the financial planning and strategy around?

00:33:21 Speaker 02: this, as we go forward, we don't want to be one of the municipalities that gets really challenged around the infrastructure payment for new facilities.

00:33:30 Speaker 10: Through you, Mr. Chair, I just for clarity, the current rate structure that's recommended is sufficient to fully fund the operating budgets included, as well as the. multi-year capital plans that are included,

00:33:47 Speaker 10: so those plans are fully funded.

00:33:50 Speaker 10: The additional reserve requirement would be to save up for something that's not currently in that list.

00:33:58 Speaker 10: And so, if we look at those and think those are fulsome lists, those are fulsome capital plans.

00:34:05 Speaker 10: The operating budget is sufficient to provide clean drinking water and sufficiently treat our wastewater.

00:34:11 Speaker 10: It is certainly important. to have contingency funds in the reserve, and I think we identified within water even why more immediately we may need to tap into those.

00:34:22 Speaker 10: But there's also a realistic amount of work that can be done in the next five years, and there's no sense funding capital that we're not going to do, even if we need to do it.

00:34:32 Speaker 10: If we're not going to do it, there's no sense having the money just sitting there waiting for it.

00:34:37 Speaker 10: So I think that extra clarity that it's not like. we've picked and chosen from the list of capital projects that you have in front of you in the appendix.

00:34:47 Speaker 10: Every single one of those projects that's included is fully funded in this model.

00:34:52 Speaker 10: The additional funds would be required for things that are not currently showing up in those intended plans.

00:34:59 Speaker 02: Through you, chair, that clarity was really, really helpful to explain the direction and the intention.

00:35:06 Speaker 02: So thank you for that.

00:35:09 Speaker 08: Member chair. thanks for going through it in such detail, because there was a lot of information in that report.

00:35:16 Speaker 08: So it was nice to hear a clarity to go through it.

00:35:20 Speaker 08: My question is about households that currently receive water but don't use the city sewage, or vice versa.

00:35:29 Speaker 08: How does their rate look in comparison to this?

00:35:35 Speaker 10: So our standard practice in those cases are generally for out of town.

00:35:44 Speaker 10: Generally, for out-of-town properties that are receiving city water, and they pay double the water rate, so they'll pay the rate that's here times two, basically in the absence of a sewer surcharge. You good, Member Jordan?

00:35:59 Speaker 09: On the water treatment plant, if I recall correctly, there were requirements that were unexpected, and was.

00:36:12 Speaker 06: Expected, and was there additional costing involved with that?

00:36:19 Speaker 06: And was that covered adequately enough in the research?

00:36:27 Speaker 04: Through the chair, to member Jordan, yes, that's already been factored into the treasurer's calculations.

00:36:32 Speaker 04: Councilor Farmer, through the chair,

00:36:33 Speaker 04: I'm just wondering if staff could add a little more detail to the idea of the unknown unknowns. there as we speak to the importance of contingency for larger projects that aren't currently identified.

00:36:43 Speaker 04: Folks might hear that snippet and think we don't know what we're doing, and it's going to cost a billion dollars to put a giant ice cube in or something. I don't know.

00:36:52 Speaker 04: What don't we know, and is that a scary thing?

00:36:56 Speaker 06: Through the chair to Council Farmer, thank you for the question.

00:37:05 Speaker 06: Yes, that that comment refers to the fact that we're undertaking. some capital needs or a capital needs study on our water and wastewater treatment plants currently,

00:37:15 Speaker 06: which will inform a logical sequence and for budgeting purposes some costs that would that will sort of plan out for us the next few years of actual process equipment that we should be looking at replacing.

00:37:26 Speaker 06: Currently and in the recent past, we had allocated. amounts in the capital budget,

00:37:35 Speaker 06: but they hadn't been thought through to the level of detail required to figure out that component X needs to be replaced in order to replace component Y. It was just the budget for component Y. So this,

00:37:53 Speaker 06: the capital needs study, will help us make sure that we have all of our ducks in a row, so to speak,

00:37:59 Speaker 06: when we go to execute those projects. so we should hopefully have more project completion rate, higher project completion rates, and we'll be able to manage the the project like caseload and budget.

00:38:19 Speaker 06: Go to member Anderson and then member Schieter next. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

00:38:25 Speaker 11: I have a question around like basic consumer sort of question.

00:38:28 Speaker 11: I enjoy flushing my. toilet, but I'm wondering we're getting the sort of the charges quarterly.

00:38:34 Speaker 11: But I understood that we got the new gauges.

00:38:36 Speaker 11: We would then be looking at option of getting monthly sort of statements that make our budgeting easier for those of us that are doing that sort of thing.

00:38:44 Speaker 11: Because sometimes those three month charges can creep up sooner than you think.

00:38:52 Speaker 06: Through the chair to member Anderson. Absolutely. In fact,

00:38:57 Speaker 06: I have a draft email. sitting in my sort of email box right now that we are just on the brink of launching our user our user interface or portal or whatever name you want to give it.

00:39:12 Speaker 06: But we have to test it.

00:39:13 Speaker 06: We're going to be testing it with some internal staff first to make sure that we know how to work it before we launch it to the public.

00:39:19 Speaker 06: Once that is functional, then we will be able to transition to monthly billing, which is the end game that we've all been looking. for, and that will definitely help with affordability.

00:39:29 Speaker 06: It will help the city as far as with leak forgiveness because people will be more on top of their accounts before.

00:39:39 Speaker 06: It won't be three months before they realize that they have a huge bill because of a leak.

00:39:44 Speaker 06: It's it will be simpler for I think everybody involved.

00:39:49 Speaker 12: And I'll follow that by going to Kate as well.

00:39:56 Speaker 13: I'll just add on to what Laura was saying, which is exactly it.

00:39:58 Speaker 13: But even before we get to monthly billing, once this consumer portal is up and running, people will be able to see their charges in real time.

00:40:06 Speaker 13: So if you want to choose to pay on a monthly basis, even if you haven't received that monthly bill yet, you'll be able to see what you owe at that current point in time.

00:40:14 Speaker 13: So even before we completely overhaul our billing structure, people will have a better able a better ability to budget.

00:40:23 Speaker 01: I think just as a result of having the It's an excellent question, Member Anderson.

00:40:33 Speaker 01: I'll go back to you, but before doing so, I'll just say I think throughout the community, you touched on something that will be well well received.

00:40:38 Speaker 01: I mean, we've got a recommendation that's basically akin or part to the rate of inflation at this time.

00:40:52 Speaker 01: But your your point will be more noticed, I think, by by many people even. than the the price increase.

00:41:01 Speaker 01: So back to you, Member Anderson.

00:41:02 Speaker 01: Through Mr. Chair, just a sort of query around this portal idea.

00:41:04 Speaker 01: As most of you know, I am always bugging the city about accessibility,

00:41:06 Speaker 11: and I'm just hoping that this portal is going to be accessible for those of us that use technologies that aren't always in the mainstream.

00:41:16 Speaker 06: Through Mr. Chair, it should be.

00:41:18 Speaker 06: But thank you for the reminder. I will.

00:41:21 Speaker 06: I will check with the the vendor on that.

00:41:24 Speaker 06: But it is web based, so I assume that if your screen reader reads websites, it should work.

00:41:31 Speaker 06: However, maybe I shouldn't assume that.

00:41:33 Speaker 14: I will check on it. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

00:41:37 Speaker 14: Yeah, I wouldn't assume it. Believe me, I'm missing. Thanks, Donald.

00:41:43 Speaker 01: Just before I go to member shared, I'm just going to check in with Councillor Hamley first, just to complete the first round.

00:41:53 Speaker 15: I don't really have questions, Mr. Chair.

00:41:57 Speaker 15: I just kind of have.

00:41:59 Speaker 15: I don't think that I support the recommendation.

00:42:02 Speaker 15: I think we've got the 2025 study, which is already outdated because of the new meters.

00:42:09 Speaker 15: The report even mentions that the new meter technology has been in service for less than a year.

00:42:15 Speaker 15: Additional time will be required to fully understand. its long-term impacts on recorded consumption and water billing.

00:42:23 Speaker 15: I just I can't support.

00:42:25 Speaker 15: You know, we could be we could be under billing the increase.

00:42:29 Speaker 15: We could be over billing the increase.

00:42:31 Speaker 15: I just think it's based on a study that that at a point in time is behind us, and I just don't think we can make a good determination based on that. Okay. Thanks, Councilor.

00:42:46 Speaker 01: Go to Kate, then to Member Sheridan next.

00:42:50 Speaker 10: I'll just add clarity that we did not solely rely on the Hampson report.

00:42:53 Speaker 10: It works out that the water rate is consistent with the Hampson report.

00:42:56 Speaker 10: However, we fully recalculated the required rate based on our updated capital plan, the current usage profile, and our operating budget.

00:43:05 Speaker 10: And then the number that came out of that was consistent with the number that Hampson provided.

00:43:11 Speaker 10: But it wasn't us relying on the Hampson report.

00:43:15 Speaker 16: We had done that work, that analysis. Okay. Thanks, Kate. Member Shooter.

00:43:21 Speaker 08: I'm backtracking a bit here through your chair to farmers' comment in your response about doing a capital needs assessment and looking at what we don't know and what we could know.

00:43:31 Speaker 08: And I'm looking at the first one under our water capital needs: Ninth Ave East, 20th Street East to 23rd Street East reconstruction.

00:43:39 Speaker 08: Looks like the design all happened last year, mid 2025.

00:43:44 Speaker 08: Correct me if I'm wrong, but slightly after that, we had three main breaks on 19th Street between 19th and 20th on 9th Ave East.

00:43:52 Speaker 08: Is that in consideration to be added to that project?

00:43:59 Speaker 01: I think you're referring to between 7th Street and 8th Street East in conjunction, as opposed to 19th.

00:44:06 Speaker 01: If that helps staff, I think that's what you're referring to, 9th Avenue East, but in the seventh.

00:44:16 Speaker 01: Ninth Avenue East, but in the seven hundred block, we had several main breaks in close proximity.

00:44:25 Speaker 01: But also down at nineteenth.

00:44:27 Speaker 01: At nineteenth, okay, over to staff.

00:44:29 Speaker 06: There was a break on Ninth Avenue. Yes, actually, you're right.

00:44:31 Speaker 06: It was south of it was south of twenty th, so that would have been the one thousand nine hundred block.

00:44:33 Speaker 06: That that particular project, the main driver for it is actually. a surface-based grant.

00:44:52 Speaker 06: It's a it's for it was a grant for housing enabling core.

00:44:55 Speaker 06: Trying to remember if I've got the acronym right.

00:44:57 Speaker 06: How yeah I think housing enabling core services and it was particularly for road upgrades.

00:45:01 Speaker 06: That being said, if there are any incidental undergrounds that are going to be required to be done before we fix the road, those will be done.

00:45:09 Speaker 06: I was primarily thinking of sanitary, but we'll have a look at the water as well.

00:45:15 Speaker 06: And actually, we meant to do the design in two thousand and twenty-five, but it did not get off the ground.

00:45:22 Speaker 06: We're still, I think, doing the request for proposal for the design for that one. Okay, all is good.

00:45:32 Speaker 01: A couple questions just before I solicit a motion here from from committee.

00:45:49 Speaker 01: I hope it turns around the the meter project.

00:45:51 Speaker 01: When staff first approached committee a couple years ago, it wasn't this committee where that that project was presented.

00:46:04 Speaker 01: Was there any examples where volumes decreased in other municipalities as an outcome?

00:46:09 Speaker 01: Like, what was the generality in?

00:46:10 Speaker 01: terms of your findings from other municipalities?

00:46:11 Speaker 01: Of the takeaway to guide that investment in new meters?

00:46:13 Speaker 01: Because I'd hate to to learn now that we're not going to realize maybe something that we were hopeful of realizing to begin with at at a three point five million dollar investment or cost. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

00:46:37 Speaker 06: I'm going to answer sort of sideways.

00:46:42 Speaker 06: I don't normally do that, but.

00:46:44 Speaker 06: I don't know what was said specifically.

00:46:46 Speaker 06: But I think we are still expecting—at least I am. Maybe okay. I'm speaking.

00:46:54 Speaker 06: This is an opinion-based thing.

00:46:56 Speaker 06: This is not a professional judgment-based thing.

00:47:00 Speaker 06: I think that the the rates or the consumption volumes being slightly down right now is a direct response of people being aware of. the new meters,

00:47:11 Speaker 06: I think that eventually people will return to their old habits, and the in the consumption will probably go back up again.

00:47:19 Speaker 06: That is my personal opinion.

00:47:21 Speaker 06: That being said, we also I think did have a huge number of people that when they got their new meter, they immediately saw that there was some kind of issue in their home,

00:47:30 Speaker 06: and they fixed a fixed fixtures and that kind of thing that might have been leaking. so no, we we're not at this point in time seeing any kind of goldmine of additional revenue.

00:47:40 Speaker 06: But that's why we said in the report that it's still a little bit too early to tell.

00:47:44 Speaker 06: I think that in time, people will resume their normal their normal routines, their normal habits, and the the consumption will probably continue to rise as it normally does.

00:48:06 Speaker 10: And. further response from Kate.

00:48:08 Speaker 10: I also don't recall exactly what our commitment was to recording additional or billing for that additional revenue and catching that additional revenue,

00:48:15 Speaker 10: but we always knew that that was going to be an impact for some properties, and we saw it in some properties.

00:48:39 Speaker 10: A lot of the properties that the city owns specifically are getting higher water bills than we used to.

00:48:48 Speaker 10: But a real driving force behind this project was not in that realization of. additional revenue, it was in the customer service piece that Donald was speaking of.

00:48:50 Speaker 10: We are going to be able to provide real-time usage data now.

00:48:52 Speaker 10: Historically, when you have a meter that's manually read and you have an issue, we can't tell you when it happened.

00:48:54 Speaker 10: So we just know that from the when you were billed in December to when you were billed in March, you somehow tripled your usage.

00:48:56 Speaker 10: Did it happen over one week?

00:48:57 Speaker 10: Did it happen over the whole period? We don't know.

00:48:59 Speaker 10: Whereas when you look at the information through this system that we have now, we can see hour by hour, day by day, when the water usage took place.

00:49:07 Speaker 10: And through this customer portal, every water user in the city is going to have that ability as well.

00:49:09 Speaker 10: So it's going to help build trust in our ability to bill and provide the service.

00:49:14 Speaker 10: And certainly, I think that outweighs what I believe the impact will be as having more accurate readings across the whole city.

00:49:22 Speaker 17: Okay, I would just note that this was an out.

00:49:30 Speaker 01: This was an outcome of the service review that was undertaken by the city, and it went through the service review committee.

00:49:37 Speaker 01: And this is a service level enhancement, is what I just heard from staff.

00:49:39 Speaker 01: And hopefully, we will see a correlated increase in revenue to support that.

00:49:43 Speaker 01: I mean, being an outcome of the service review, where the city was charged with trying to find and realize cost savings, I'd be concerned if the opposite. or true here.

00:49:56 Speaker 01: Before I go back to Kate, you'll get an option yet, or an opportunity.

00:50:04 Speaker 01: About a year ago, we tendered a project, Ninth Avenue East reconstruction, as Member Schrader referenced it. It's funded.

00:50:14 Speaker 01: You send these capital projects through to Hempson or whoever is the consultant doing these these studies.

00:50:22 Speaker 01: They're fully funded, and that one project realized just under 1.4 million dollars in reduced expenditures from the water portion needed to fund that project.

00:50:35 Speaker 01: We also have the conservation authority levy that we have historically funded from water rates.

00:50:46 Speaker 01: Until the last two years, I think the increases annually would get supported by tax. levy, but the large component of that two hundred, I think,

00:50:54 Speaker 01: to two hundred and thirty thousand dollars is funded by water rates.

00:50:59 Speaker 01: That will no longer be the case because it's going to be the upper tier municipalities that are going to be funding conservation authority levy.

00:51:07 Speaker 01: I'm concerned about municipalities around the province having the opportunity to effectively double tax their citizens and not recognize what should be savings that should flow through.

00:51:20 Speaker 01: In this case, between those two projects of one point four million dollars and a reduction in water funding for one project,

00:51:28 Speaker 01: it was said at the start of the meeting that seventy five thousand dollars from the first report gets collected and and is reflected in the updated wastewater rate calculation.

00:51:41 Speaker 01: My hope is that reductions hold hold true as well to that and that. reductions don't just get expended in other avenues because that funding room is now available,

00:51:56 Speaker 01: and we don't have a clear line of sight or a mechanism to demonstrate that.

00:52:03 Speaker 01: Here's what we sent Hemson.

00:52:05 Speaker 01: Here's all the capital projects; it's fully funded.

00:52:08 Speaker 01: But when some of them come in significantly under, yes, I get it. Some come in over.

00:52:13 Speaker 01: But we have an obligation to. recognize those cost savings where possible, too, and I think the conservation authority levy is on a go-forward.

00:52:23 Speaker 01: Another one of those ones that over that course of that study period, now that's that's a million dollars.

00:52:35 Speaker 10: I can speak to that a bit if you'd like, and we did talk about this today.

00:52:40 Speaker 10: So every year when we do the rate update, we sort of start again as of the end of the previous year, and so. the previous year, as part of our year-end procedures,

00:52:48 Speaker 10: we take all of the revenue that's been collected.

00:52:51 Speaker 10: We pay for the operating budget, we fund the capital projects, and whatever's left is in a reserve.

00:52:57 Speaker 10: And so, if a project has been under budget, that reserve balance is going to be higher.

00:53:03 Speaker 10: If the operating budget is less than what we anticipated, that reserve balance is going to be higher.

00:53:09 Speaker 10: And as I was saying to Brock, we then start again every year.

00:53:13 Speaker 10: This is our opening amount of money, and we need.

00:53:17 Speaker 10: We know what our capital plan is.

00:53:19 Speaker 10: We know what our operating budget is, and we start again and recalculate.

00:53:22 Speaker 10: What are the rates now with this new reserve balance?

00:53:24 Speaker 10: So, as of right now, the conservation authority levy is still in that budget, and we're capturing it.

00:53:30 Speaker 10: And we'll likely have to pay it in 2026.

00:53:33 Speaker 10: I'm not sure what the timing is for when this will be implemented, but as soon as it is implemented in that year, it will come out,

00:53:39 Speaker 10: and we'll restart when we do the analysis that year. so it's possible that next year we may be able to come back to you and say we can bring that water rate increase down to

00:53:47 Speaker 10: four percent this year or three percent.

00:53:49 Speaker 10: Is it ever going to go to zero?

00:53:51 Speaker 10: Unlikely, but it may not be.

00:53:52 Speaker 10: You're right; it may not be five percent for the next five years.

00:53:57 Speaker 10: It may come down, but every year we do look at those things, and so when there's savings, it's captured through that reserve balance, and we use that as our starting.

00:54:05 Speaker 10: This is how much money we have.

00:54:08 Speaker 10: How much more do we need in order to satisfy?

00:54:10 Speaker 10: what our future obligations are.

00:54:12 Speaker 10: So those things are ultimately captured in that way.

00:54:16 Speaker 01: Okay, I appreciate that response.

00:54:19 Speaker 01: It was stated at the start too that the rates will always go up, but I would challenge that.

00:54:24 Speaker 01: I'd love to see us at some point have the rates go down because they're driven by the growth and additional users that generate more volumetric flows that we're billing.

00:54:34 Speaker 01: I think that'd be a great value to see how much growth would the city need. to see to support a 1.5% annually, or also what's historically life cycle costs on the linear infrastructure?

00:54:47 Speaker 01: Things get built better today than what they used to be.

00:54:50 Speaker 01: So, is life cycle cost is it a 75-year cycle as opposed to to 50 years kind of thing in the past too?

00:54:58 Speaker 01: But thanks for that explanation as well.

00:55:01 Speaker 01: Hopefully, I mean we're going to see some significant growth.

00:55:04 Speaker 01: The the housing is is going on right now. and hopefully we realize some some very significant numbers in 18 months, 24 months from now.

00:55:16 Speaker 01: So we do have a requirement to provide a recommendation to council as an outcome of this report.

00:55:22 Speaker 01: I'm looking for a motion from committee, Councillor Farmer.

00:55:28 Speaker 04: I move the recommendations as outlined in the report.

00:55:34 Speaker 01: Okay, we've got a motion on the floor. Are there any?

00:55:43 Speaker 01: further questions, comments to that? Councilor Farmer.

00:55:44 Speaker 04: Through the chair, just following up on that last question from the chair.

00:56:12 Speaker 10: Does the city track what the potential additional, what new user numbers would mean for rate increases?

00:56:22 Speaker 10: Assuming that we are far from having more users than we have capacity, is that a number that we do have, or is that a more specific calculation?

00:56:23 Speaker 10: Through your councilor, through Mr. Chair, to Councillor Farmer, we do use an estimate for the total number of meters, so we do factor in a growth.

00:56:25 Speaker 10: Now, if we have a significant spike in one year, it's not going to do that.

00:56:27 Speaker 10: Our estimate is that they'll grow by ten percent each year over the life of the study.

00:56:30 Speaker 10: But then again, each year when I do the rate calculation, I update it for the total number of meters as of that point of time.

00:56:36 Speaker 10: So, if we bring on 300 new meters, next year's rate study will capture those 300 new meters.

00:56:42 Speaker 10: And potentially, you're absolutely right.

00:56:43 Speaker 10: If if the growth is high enough, we could see a situation where we don't need to bring forward the rate increase because we have that many more people contributing to the revenue. Okay. Thanks.

00:56:54 Speaker 05: And I'm not seeing any further questions.

00:56:57 Speaker 05: So, all those in favor of that recommendation, and. that is carried.

00:57:03 Speaker 05: I should note any opposed? Just one. Okay. Thank you very much.

00:57:08 Speaker 05: Thanks, Kate, for your presence and the report presented this evening.

00:57:13 Speaker 05: So at this time, we are to eight a three, which is a report from Bryce regarding the walking beam flocculator update.

00:57:29 Speaker 05: Good evening, Chair Committee, and through you, this is this report is basically an update and to build on a previous report OP twenty three dash oh ten.

00:57:45 Speaker 18: Basically, that report was provided in two thousand and twenty three with regards to the proposed emergency replacement and the procedure going to be put.

00:57:58 Speaker 18: Propose for the replacement of the walking beam flocculator that failed in 2023, late 2022.

00:58:06 Speaker 18: We made several attempts from to from the original proposed plan of having a local consultant come up with a design and replicate the existing flocculator that that was still in use.

00:58:28 Speaker 18: They were of 1950s, I believe, vintage 1960s. vintage, and they were produced in the southern United States during that time.

00:58:42 Speaker 18: When we we attempted to contact additional suppliers and or manufacturers of similar units, there was a real struggle in getting support and getting that product south of border,

00:58:52 Speaker 18: across and installed and warranted. so at that time the decision was made to secure a local design consultant, GEI at the time,

00:59:02 Speaker 18: to come up with a design that they deemed they were comfortable and confident in delivering a design that would meet the similar performance standards as the existing unit,

00:59:13 Speaker 18: and then we would have a local manufacturing company build that proposed unit for install with the intent that it would work similar. to the original unit.

00:59:30 Speaker 18: From honestly, really, the date of installation, there was many challenges, mainly due to the the structural size and weight of the new unit.

00:59:40 Speaker 18: It was not performing or integrating with the existing infrastructure, being the existing drive motor and drive arm, and the existing support beams and brackets that held up the base.

00:59:51 Speaker 18: So we. were seeing significant weld failures, structural failures.

00:59:57 Speaker 18: We made several attempts, along with the design consultant, and the local manufacturing contractor, to reinforce and strengthen it.

01:00:06 Speaker 18: Thus, just adding additional weight.

01:00:10 Speaker 18: So, at this point, we are.

01:00:13 Speaker 18: It was deemed to be unreliable, and it's not fit for service.

01:00:17 Speaker 18: It's been out of service now for about six months.

01:00:19 Speaker 18: As we go through. the process of securing quotes, recommendations, doing research on similar types of technologies, as in flocculator technologies, but more modern, lightweight—we would say more proven technologies—in this sort of application,

01:00:43 Speaker 18: and what the recommendation or what the path forward that the city has decided,

01:00:52 Speaker 18: and sorry that. supported by the city manager and through our procurement bylaw is to do this purchase through emergency purchase and fund it through I think a design build contract to H two Ontario to

01:01:11 Speaker 18: supply J W S vertical paddle wheel flocculator system with a baffle curtain to provide the mixing we required for sufficient flocculation for our filtration process.

01:01:22 Speaker 18: So that's the nuts and bolts of the report.

01:01:26 Speaker 18: I'm happy to take any other questions that you may have with regards to how we got here or what our plan is going forward.

01:01:34 Speaker 01: Okay, and just before we go to Councilor Merton, if I could have you just explain a little more, so more in depth, just to be transparent,

01:01:45 Speaker 01: why we would not be going through a standard. competitive procurement is in the report, but any time that we do an emergency procurement or sole source,

01:01:55 Speaker 01: we we have an obligation to to to be very diligent in in terms of undertaking such.

01:02:00 Speaker 18: And and if you could just expand on on that a bit, Bryce. Sure, and yeah, absolutely.

01:02:09 Speaker 18: Our our recommendation is to go through the emergency purchase due to the the timelines, the timelines just for the shop drawing. submittal, review, and approval, and to get that manufacturing on site is six months.

01:02:20 Speaker 18: So, if we started that today, six months into January for install, if we were conservative and said three months for installation, we're still into another melt, thaw, spring freshet, whatever you want to call it,

01:02:35 Speaker 18: with significant source water quality challenges like we've seen this year.

01:02:39 Speaker 18: So, if we're going to be facing that for one year, if we did the standard design, sorry, we would need a consultant's support with the original tender specification of the unit we're required.

01:02:54 Speaker 18: So, in order to even state what we're required, we will need an engineer design consultant to say we need it to meet this standard.

01:03:04 Speaker 18: Then we would have to take that specification, put that into a tender package, go for formal tender for a company to provide. either supply and install,

01:03:15 Speaker 18: or we would go through a potential procurement or innovation agreement where we would sole source or purchase the desired piece of equipment, and then still have to go to tender for that contractor to install.

01:03:26 Speaker 18: Like we're similar to what we're doing with the bar screens.

01:03:30 Speaker 18: If we went to tender for that contractor to do the work, I would say the earliest time frame we'd be into would be you know early next year and this.

01:03:43 Speaker 18: Early next year, end of this year, we have a tendering process and a review of that tendering process.

01:03:49 Speaker 18: Then we have award of contract.

01:03:51 Speaker 18: We're into the into that year.

01:03:52 Speaker 18: Then at that point, then we're going through, you know, the the approval and design of shop drawings.

01:03:59 Speaker 18: If we didn't do the the pre-purchase ourselves, which comes at risk and it comes at time for us as well, then we'd be six months out from that,

01:04:08 Speaker 18: taken into the fall of fall for construction.

01:04:11 Speaker 18: So that is looking like a two-year. time frame if we did that standard competitive procurement.

01:04:13 Speaker 18: With, my opinion, very little benefit or cost-saving potential related to going that route.

01:04:25 Speaker 02: Okay, thanks for that explanation, Councillor Merton.

01:04:28 Speaker 02: Through you, Chair, I will move the recommendation that we proceed with the emergency procurement.

01:04:33 Speaker 02: I do have a question, if I may, proceed, Chair.

01:04:37 Speaker 02: One. year still sounds like a long time as an emergency, so I'm presuming you know there's there's no way to make this happen any faster.

01:04:51 Speaker 02: What what happens if this you know we've been operating with a flocculator that's not flocculating very well at all?

01:05:13 Speaker 18: So what happens if if we have issues with what?

01:05:16 Speaker 18: Through your chair to Councilor Martin.

01:05:18 Speaker 18: So this is the ideal time to be down.

01:05:22 Speaker 18: Obviously, with our source water quality being good and consistent, so there there is better times and worse times.

01:05:31 Speaker 18: We we feel that we had the ability to manage.

01:05:34 Speaker 18: We managed through the precautionary boiled water advisory in that period with the flocculator being down.

01:05:40 Speaker 18: We Later, being down, we have ability to flow water through that flocculator, and with the ingenuity of our staff, we're able to put in basically like puddle pumps to recirculate water,

01:05:50 Speaker 18: not to a standard that it's achieving the appropriate mixing.

01:05:52 Speaker 18: But in the case of emergency, we can move water because essentially all the flocculator is doing is gently mixing and providing time for those colloids to build and the flock to grow,

01:06:01 Speaker 18: so it's easier for to be filtered.

01:06:02 Speaker 18: So there is things that we could do in the interim if we deem that there is an emergency to get some sort of mixing apparatus into the existing tank to to alleviate that,

01:06:22 Speaker 18: and you know staff are trained and experienced, and we're lucky to have such trained staff in managing and and working through those those scenarios.

01:06:43 Speaker 18: But it is always a risk, and then if when it comes down to shortening those timelines for potential you. know, shop drawing review, delivery, contractor timing, and that we we will definitely have those conversations.

01:06:52 Speaker 18: And I'm very confident with the contractor that we've been engaged with that we can shorten those timeframes.

01:06:54 Speaker 19: But until we had some sort of formal commitment, we wouldn't be able to have those conversations, right,

01:07:00 Speaker 20: to see what they could do to adjust those timelines and to to speed things up until we've committed. Member Inda.

01:07:08 Speaker 20: So, if I'm reading this correct, one isn't working; the other one may quit at any time.

01:07:16 Speaker 20: So, are there any plans to get another one? Like, I know.

01:07:21 Speaker 20: Sorry, I know it takes a while to get a new one and get it installed.

01:07:31 Speaker 18: So, are there any long-term plans being made to replace the one that's may go any time?

01:07:37 Speaker 18: Yet through you, chair, to public member, into yes, by all means, and that was the original intent of the budget,

01:07:39 Speaker 18: and why there is still a remaining budget is because the original intent when they did this was to have enough money in the plan to replace the second one.

01:07:46 Speaker 18: Unfortunately, that was put on the back burner because the first one wasn't successful, and it still hasn't operated as function.

01:08:07 Speaker 18: The intent would be because. these are their two basically twin units that we get one good performing unit in that we trust and is reliable.

01:08:16 Speaker 18: Then we can just duplicate that with some cost savings and obviously an understanding reliability and performance of that how that technology works. Right.

01:08:18 Speaker 18: So the understanding would be if we get this installed, it's performing as intended.

01:08:23 Speaker 18: We're happy with the function, which by all means. we believe we will be, this AWS company is a very reputable installs all over the world,

01:08:31 Speaker 18: and HU Ontario is is a great contractor that we would be able to duplicate this process,

01:08:37 Speaker 18: and then you know potentially specify the unit and go for competitive procurement for the installation of the second one, knowing what we've learned from the first one,

01:08:48 Speaker 18: but we just don't seem to have the time frame to do it at this time responsibly. Through you, chair.

01:09:04 Speaker 20: So I'm just curious on the cost. I'm.

01:09:07 Speaker 20: You're saying that the one you're getting through emergency.

01:09:08 Speaker 20: So the second one, are you going to go through what Councillor Gregg was speaking of, a standardized replacement?

01:09:11 Speaker 20: Where will there be a price difference there, savings? Through you, chair. Yes, absolutely.

01:09:20 Speaker 18: We would intend to go through. competitive procurement for the next unit, knowing that we would have time to do so.

01:09:33 Speaker 18: There would be several different approaches we could take, as in, like we could pre-purchase the the actual unit from JWS if we're happy with the performance of this unit,

01:09:42 Speaker 18: and then procure the the or sorry, go to competitive procurement for the contractor to install, and then novation agreement of that product to the contractor to install.

01:09:55 Speaker 18: That would be probably my my recommendation at this time. without knowing how this project goes, but yeah,

01:10:01 Speaker 18: the the expectation would be that we would go to competitive procurement for at least a portion of it.

01:10:10 Speaker 18: But if we would go to competitive procurement for another maker model, then we would have potentially three different types of flocculator equipment in the same plant, which is not ideal for a operation,

01:10:25 Speaker 18: b for redundancy, and c for like.

01:10:27 Speaker 18: Transferable parts or parts, and we we like to have consistent equipment across our treatment plants, so we know what we're working with, and we have spare parts, and we know how to manage it.

01:10:36 Speaker 18: We don't like a variety of different vintages and off brands for consistency and operational efficiencies. Good, and Member Shooter. Thanks. So, through you, Chair.

01:10:45 Speaker 08: So, my questions are historical, just because I wasn't around. and have some background knowledge that I need to gild up here.

01:10:51 Speaker 08: So, the first cell one broke in 2023, and then we replaced it with a heavier material, which subsequently broke. You said almost immediately. So, what happened there?

01:11:04 Speaker 08: What process broke down in this emergency repair that like won't break down this time? Like why?

01:11:11 Speaker 08: Why were we so sure that was going to work, but then it didn't work?

01:11:14 Speaker 08: And what changes have been made in the staff processes to make sure that any repairs going forward are going to work.

01:11:25 Speaker 18: Through chair to member shooter, the technologies are completely different.

01:11:29 Speaker 18: As in one is a walking beam flocculator, which is large paddles that are gently pushed and pulled up and down in the water column.

01:11:39 Speaker 18: To this is a vertical paddle wheel,

01:11:49 Speaker 18: which is like a mixer that is spinning. basically like the drive forces on the motor to the paddle wheel that's being being spun is more consistent and more predictable,

01:12:01 Speaker 18: like technology for that for that motion than it is trying to create that balance of the up and down.

01:12:08 Speaker 18: The additional weight that was created by this unit was due to the need of change of materials.

01:12:16 Speaker 18: Primarily, this unit being nineteen fifties vintage, those requirements for and.

01:12:20 Speaker 18: Those requirements for NSF or materials in contact with drinking water didn't exist at that time.

01:12:26 Speaker 18: So primarily it was just cast iron, steel, and plywood, right, or wood.

01:12:33 Speaker 18: Those are no longer acceptable now to be in contact with drinking water.

01:12:34 Speaker 18: So to upgrade to stainless steel and HDPE required paddles that have the proper weight consistency and buoyancy to to work appropriately in the water column as the equipment is designed to operate, increased that weight significantly.

01:12:47 Speaker 18: The engineers were confident in their design that it would be able to tie in with the existing drive arm motor and supports.

01:12:55 Speaker 18: That was obviously not the case, and like I said, almost immediately we had cracking in the support flange and gussets.

01:13:01 Speaker 18: They tried to add additional support and weight and material to it, adding more weight, and then it just essentially. shifts to another failure point, as in you strengthen one area,

01:13:15 Speaker 18: now it's just finding a new one, and this is not something that is easy to work on.

01:13:21 Speaker 18: And every time we have to take it down, the support and the cost is significant, right?

01:13:26 Speaker 18: So, yes, we can could continue to invest in it without knowing what the results are are going to be,

01:13:35 Speaker 18: but the the staff don't have confidence that it is going. to perform any better in the future.

01:13:52 Speaker 18: So we we think that the the recommended technology is a more proven technology, and we think it's the appropriate way to to go about dealing with this emergency.

01:14:01 Speaker 18: If we if we if we wanted to take a look at other technologies and other methods, that's just adding to that delay. So. hope that answered. Thank you, through chair.

01:14:12 Speaker 08: So, I just wanted to confirm there, since we had, I think you said it was GEI designed it as the engineer.

01:14:18 Speaker 08: Is there any responsibilities or cash coming back because they engineered something that was doomed to fail coming back to the city that we can use towards the future replacement?

01:14:42 Speaker 18: Through your chair, member shooter.

01:14:44 Speaker 18: Yes, that's that's always a challenge.

01:14:45 Speaker 18: Is is obviously getting someone to admit fault, liability, responsibility.

01:14:51 Speaker 18: We have had conversations with them.

01:14:53 Speaker 18: They they understand that this is not ideal.

01:14:56 Speaker 18: They are, you know, they they remain confident in their design and their calculations that they would work and support that. Obviously, it's not working.

01:15:04 Speaker 18: We we do have G E I and we have have used them for years.

01:15:13 Speaker 18: Or a local company and good relations with them,

01:15:16 Speaker 18: so they have you know agreed—not formally agreed—but we've had conversations about what it would look like potentially if we needed support in engineering work for this project, contract amendments, site inspection, shop drawing review, and stuff like that.

01:15:23 Speaker 18: But once again, until something is formalized, it's hard to have those conversations to see where they'd be willing to support in return for this project. Not. being successful. Okay, awesome. Through chair, moving forward.

01:15:40 Speaker 08: So historically, in two thousand and twenty-three, it said that the change of flocculator type wasn't supported because there would be an EAP approval from the MECP that would be too long.

01:15:50 Speaker 08: So is that still something that is the case?

01:16:05 Speaker 18: That would be a long approval process.

01:16:08 Speaker 18: Through chair, member shooter, I can't comment. on that specific comment related to the approval required.

01:16:10 Speaker 18: I have got confirmation from Aziz Ahmed from the approvals branch of the Ministry of the MECP that no additional,

01:16:15 Speaker 18: only a director notification would be required because we're fundamentally not changing the mixing rate or the mixing speed as long as we meet the the band in which we expect. that G rating mixing calculation

01:16:33 Speaker 18: that is going to be standardized and provided by the the design manufacturer,

01:16:53 Speaker 08: then it's just a director notification.

01:16:55 Speaker 08: So there's no approvals required.

01:16:56 Speaker 08: Sorry, one last question, the chair.

01:16:57 Speaker 08: I just like knowing a bit about flocculators.

01:16:59 Speaker 08: Is there a specific reason why you went for a vertical flocculator amongst all?

01:17:00 Speaker 08: the five, seven different types that are out there.

01:17:04 Speaker 18: Through you, chair to member shooter, vertical paddle wheel flocculator is quite common now, probably most common of technologies.

01:17:16 Speaker 18: It it offers the ability to, especially with this one, ability to isolate a cell with a baffle curtain.

01:17:24 Speaker 18: It offers the ability to lighten up the weight of those paddles and the drive motor requires less power.

01:17:32 Speaker 18: You also have the ability, which we don't think is required, but to reduce the the motor size for energy efficiency and optimization.

01:17:49 Speaker 05: Or VFD drives work very well with this type of technology.

01:17:53 Speaker 05: Thanks for those questions and the responses, Braves.

01:17:56 Speaker 05: Just before I call for the vote, just quick question: Is there any potential for conflict with?

01:18:07 Speaker 18: this timeline and this direction, with the filter upgrades that are still ongoing.

01:18:11 Speaker 18: Director, we're not anticipating any.

01:18:12 Speaker 18: There might be minor conflicts when it comes to removal the removal of the existing damage or decommission flocculator because it's still currently being supported within that within that tank.

01:18:20 Speaker 18: But the contractor that is doing the filter refurbishment has been aware of this,

01:18:27 Speaker 18: and they understand that there may need to be some site delineation or some work plan changes in where basically like lay down areas or where we enter and exit to keep that separation between contractors.

01:18:40 Speaker 18: But we've had those conversations, and we were prepared to deal with multiple contractors on site to at least get the removal of that, and then we got that six month window before delivery,

01:18:50 Speaker 18: which hopefully we get down.

01:18:52 Speaker 18: But the. filter project is scheduled to be done by the end of the summer, sort of thing.

01:18:57 Speaker 05: Okay, thanks for that response.

01:18:59 Speaker 05: Not seeing any further questions.

01:19:01 Speaker 05: All those in favor of the recommendation, and that is carried unanimously. Thanks, Bryce.

01:19:08 Speaker 05: At this time, we're down to a short report regarding the 2026 road resurfacing program.

01:19:14 Speaker 05: So back over to you, Lara, to introduce us. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

01:19:20 Speaker 06: This is this report. was is brought back to committee to give you an update.

01:19:25 Speaker 06: We when we presented the two thousand and twenty-five capital budget, we proposed at that time a list of roads that we were going to do in two thousand and twenty-six.

01:19:36 Speaker 06: But we did commit to bringing back an updated list.

01:19:42 Speaker 06: We've removed two, I believe, and added three sections.

01:19:48 Speaker 06: There were some. minor changes, and that's visible in the attachment.

01:19:54 Speaker 06: It shows the the roads are. Let me see here.

01:20:10 Speaker 06: They're outlined in blue, and I believe there's also a description.

01:20:14 Speaker 06: Yes, so Twenty Eight th Street West, Seventeen th Street East, Eleventh Avenue East, and Twelve th Street East.

01:20:16 Speaker 06: Thank you very much, Christina, for bringing that that up.

01:20:26 Speaker 06: For bringing that up on the screen, we're staying within our funding envelope.

01:20:31 Speaker 06: We were able to add a few additional road segments because the prices that we got this year were quite competitive.

01:20:33 Speaker 06: So, if anybody has any questions, I would be happy to answer them.

01:20:49 Speaker 21: And are there any questions from committee? Not seeing any.

01:20:51 Speaker 21: The recommendation is the operations committee recommends city council receive the report for information purposes.

01:21:00 Speaker 21: Do I have a mover, member Hawkins? So moved. Just quickly to staff.

01:21:03 Speaker 21: Congratulations on having this timeline so early in the year and through the summer.

01:21:05 Speaker 21: It's great to see it undertaken during great weather conditions, as opposed to being delayed deep into the autumn season or slash winter.

01:21:12 Speaker 21: To you know see. higher quality work potentially done.

01:21:18 Speaker 21: Nobody wants to see paving done at two degrees or or close to it.

01:21:25 Speaker 21: So, all those in favor? And that is carried. Thank you.

01:21:33 Speaker 21: And next item then is back to Lara for the 27th Street West Storm Sewer Emergency Replacement. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

01:21:54 Speaker 06: So this this project was procured through emergency provisions, but we are required to report to committee as soon as possible.

01:22:04 Speaker 06: So this report satisfies that requirement.

01:22:06 Speaker 06: The summary of the situation is that there there is a very large, well, rather large storm sewer on twenty-seven Street West,

01:22:16 Speaker 06: and. the segment that we're talking about is between the basically the shoreline and Fourth Avenue West.

01:22:18 Speaker 06: It has been in poor condition for a number of years.

01:22:22 Speaker 06: It's been on our capital budget, but it keep it kept getting deferred because various reasons.

01:22:29 Speaker 06: Our public works staff had been repairing it, patching it extensively, hence it being on the capital budget.

01:22:39 Speaker 06: Unfortunately, we weren't able. to execute this project before we had some fairly significant pipe failures, causing rather large pavement holes, sinkholes, if you will.

01:22:54 Speaker 06: So we had to we had to go ahead and proceed with the project on a very quick basis.

01:23:03 Speaker 06: Staff did still seek multiple quotes for the work, so there was still. a competitive bidding process.

01:23:11 Speaker 06: It just didn't take the form of what we normally would do with an advertised tender and whatnot.

01:23:19 Speaker 06: So we, as of today, we did run into a utility conflict.

01:23:23 Speaker 06: I believe that's mentioned in the report that we were aware that there was some potential utility conflicts that we were going to be coming up against.

01:23:31 Speaker 06: So we've already found one. That's already been managed.

01:23:35 Speaker 06: So they're going to continue on.

01:23:37 Speaker 06: If there's any questions between Mason and I, we'd be happy to answer them.

01:23:43 Speaker 02: Thanks for that, Councillor Merton. Through you, Chair.

01:23:47 Speaker 02: One of the things I've learned since I've sat on operations committee is there are big dollars associated with these projects.

01:23:55 Speaker 02: So I almost hesitate to mention small dollars.

01:24:00 Speaker 02: However, in the report on page four of six, the bid price.

01:24:06 Speaker 02: There is we don't have enough budget to cover the total cost, and I know it's not a lot of money, but it's still money that we have to find.

01:24:27 Speaker 06: Where will we find that difference?

01:24:29 Speaker 06: Through the chair to Councillor Merton.

01:24:30 Speaker 06: If at the end of the project there is a slight exceedance, it will come out of the stormwater reserve. and I apologize if that wasn't clear in the report.

01:24:38 Speaker 06: And I say if because that is based on the geotechnical contingency and also some provisional items.

01:24:47 Speaker 06: So if all of those things are not expended, then we will not be in that situation. Okay.

01:24:57 Speaker 06: Not seeing any further questions. I have two questions.

01:25:01 Speaker 05: One related to the transit route. and the second question to the detour, but they are both kind of combined in terms of the same question.

01:25:13 Speaker 05: This is very large pipe, and that intersection will need to be closed down.

01:25:18 Speaker 05: It's a little bit of a challenge in terms of like a proper detour.

01:25:22 Speaker 05: Our staff proposing: Are you working with Georgian Bluffs to direct traffic around to Summer Street and Georgian Bluffs through those days?

01:25:31 Speaker 05: where that intersection would need to be closed, and also what alternatives arrangements for the the brook bus would be made, and communicating that to users.

01:25:46 Speaker 22: Yep, staff is aware of the challenges.

01:25:48 Speaker 22: Like obviously, when we cross Third Avenue, we will have to have some temporary closure.

01:25:53 Speaker 22: The contractor is very confident they can limit that to a day or two.

01:25:57 Speaker 22: We're really hoping. what we're looking at right now is kind of having a hybrid detour.

01:26:02 Speaker 22: So northbound traffic will detour 26th around 27th where they've already completed and back out, and then southbound traffic would be 28th the other way, kind of zigzag out through Jordan Bluffs.

01:26:16 Speaker 22: We're kind of working on that still currently.

01:26:19 Speaker 22: We've been working closely with Heidi with transit, and we're going to get some notification out there for the minor delay that it might have in transit for a day or two,

01:26:27 Speaker 22: but we're hoping. this would be very short. Impedance to people.

01:26:34 Speaker 21: No, thank you for that response.

01:26:36 Speaker 21: Great to hear that it's a very short, perhaps interruption for for residents.

01:26:41 Speaker 21: That would depend on that. Any further questions? Not seeing any.

01:26:45 Speaker 21: Have I had it moved? Recommendation? Perhaps not.

01:26:50 Speaker 21: Councilor Hamley, happy to move that.

01:26:53 Speaker 21: Put them on the record. Any further questions? All those in favor? and that's carried unanimously. Thank you.

01:27:00 Speaker 21: Next item is back to Lara regarding the Kenny Drain Pond cleanout under item 8B3. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm sorry.

01:27:10 Speaker 21: By the end of this meeting, you guys will be sick of hearing my voice.

01:27:14 Speaker 06: This report again is one that we committed to bring back to committee to give you an update.

01:27:22 Speaker 06: There was a report done.

01:27:25 Speaker 06: Sorry, I'm just checking the previous in 2023 and in 2024 we've done reports about the Kenny Drain and its sort of long-term project plan.

01:27:42 Speaker 06: This is essentially elevating just the project of the pond cleanout.

01:27:52 Speaker 06: It is a necessary project. as it affects not only stormwater issues but also, and probably primarily, our drinking water system.

01:28:02 Speaker 06: As committee, I'm sure is aware, we've spoken about it before that sediment dumping out of the Kenny Drain affects our intake water supply,

01:28:12 Speaker 06: which causes pressure in particularly the spring thaw and wet seasons when there's a lot of sediment.

01:28:20 Speaker 06: Our our filtration system. can have difficulty keeping up with that.

01:28:26 Speaker 06: So, we're bringing this to you because, when in the past it was considered just a cleanout, upon further analysis,

01:28:37 Speaker 06: it was determined that it would be optimal to not only clean it out but also expand expand it slightly, to give it more capacity.

01:28:46 Speaker 06: So there is a there is a an expansion in the. project budget compared to the previous capital detail sheet,

01:28:55 Speaker 06: and this is for your information in order to essentially inform council that you are aware of it to then subsequently inform the capital budget process in June.

01:29:11 Speaker 06: If anybody has any questions, I will be happy to answer them.

01:29:16 Speaker 06: I don't feel I articulated that too well, so I'm sure there will be. some. Thank you.

01:29:22 Speaker 01: Before I go to committee, I'll ask a question of clarity.

01:29:25 Speaker 01: I was trying to discern there is a sediment-filled stormwater or pond on the south side of the rail trail,

01:29:35 Speaker 01: and it's been kind of discussed by staff to committee slash council over many years about it filling.

01:29:46 Speaker 01: Is the report indicating that one, or it's a?

01:29:51 Speaker 01: Or, it's an offline pond noted in the report that's actually north of the rail trail, on the property of the soccer complex.

01:29:57 Speaker 01: I was just trying to figure out for sure, like what pond are we talking about—the one that's active, south of the rail trail, or the one that's offline, north of the rail trail. Through you, Mr. Chair. So you are correct.

01:30:12 Speaker 22: There are several ponds in the Kenny Drain system.

01:30:15 Speaker 22: This project is. specifically the pond.

01:30:18 Speaker 22: We'll call it adjacent to the soccer complex property.

01:30:21 Speaker 22: It is kind of filled and non-functioning, so so I would say this is north of the rail trail.

01:30:27 Speaker 22: If I'm thinking correctly, but the Kenny Train itself has a plethora of problems.

01:30:33 Speaker 22: Unfortunately, that we are looking to repair in the ongoing capital plan.

01:30:38 Speaker 22: Talking with our consultant doing the master storm study, this is one of the highest priorities. they identified for us, and with the you know challenges we had this spring, related to our water,

01:30:51 Speaker 22: it was you know it's a good project to pick.

01:30:54 Speaker 22: But yeah, it's just it's the one adjacent to the soccer complex we're looking at to both clean and expand.

01:31:03 Speaker 22: Okay, thanks for that, Member Anderson. Go ahead. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm just curious.

01:31:13 Speaker 11: I'm not really experienced on the sort of These sort of processes, but where does the sediment go?

01:31:20 Speaker 11: Is it going to be an environmental concern for us as a community?

01:31:22 Speaker 11: And then, how many years will this fix last before it fills up again?

01:31:31 Speaker 22: Thank you, Mr. Chair, Mr. Anderson.

01:31:35 Speaker 22: So the fill in the pond, not necessarily has an environmental impact, but that is a concern in most stormwater ponds.

01:31:45 Speaker 22: So, as part of the project, we will have it tested.

01:31:47 Speaker 22: It will be checked before it leaves site to determine an appropriate location.

01:31:54 Speaker 22: If it's clean fill, it will be dealt with under the appropriate regs as clean fill.

01:31:58 Speaker 22: If it's deemed contaminated, then it will be dealt with as contaminated fill.

01:32:04 Speaker 22: Being both a cleanout and expansion, I would anticipate we will deal with both, and the intention would be when we take this out. for proposal for a consultant to assist us with.

01:32:13 Speaker 22: That'll be a part of their scope to determine what is appropriate to where the fill goes, whether it's clean or contaminated. It's not an issue.

01:32:23 Speaker 22: I think the public would have to worry about at large.

01:32:25 Speaker 22: We'll make sure we have mitigation measures in place to kind of mitigate those effects moving forward. Okay. Thanks, Member Anderson. Member Sure.

01:32:41 Speaker 08: Just through your chair, out of curiosity, once we have this big water dam area right next to the soccer field,

01:32:48 Speaker 08: is there already a plan in place for bug protection or anything like that from the soccer field, or monitoring for mosquitoes and stuff like that from the water source? Thank you, Member Shooters. Through you, Mr. Chair.

01:33:05 Speaker 06: So, in a properly functioning. pond, it should not be a mosquito habitat, I guess.

01:33:15 Speaker 06: Like it's it's not at least not the type that like West Nile is known to sort of transmit through, because it's a it's technically like a healthy environment, healthy ecosystem.

01:33:25 Speaker 06: It's not the same thing as like standing water in in tires and bowls and whatnot that might be lying around.

01:33:36 Speaker 06: That's the type of, or even rain barrels.

01:33:38 Speaker 06: Actually, that's the type of environment that mosquito larvae will breed in, or be grown in.

01:33:47 Speaker 06: So it shouldn't add to the issues. Like I don't know.

01:33:52 Speaker 06: I've been to the soccer complex myself many times, and I I don't recall bugs being too much of an issue.

01:33:58 Speaker 06: But I don't hang out on that side, so I'm not really sure.

01:34:01 Speaker 06: I've got a realistic perspective. of it myself.

01:34:06 Speaker 06: That being said, in a properly functioning storm pond, it should not be a mosquito harboring environment. Okay, thank you.

01:34:18 Speaker 05: Not seeing any further questions. I have one. This one's dollar driven.

01:34:27 Speaker 05: There's only so much money.

01:34:29 Speaker 05: Just a couple years ago, I think this was projected at one two million dollars.

01:34:33 Speaker 05: This is proposing to increase the size of it significantly.

01:34:39 Speaker 05: We have seen these additional stormwater management ponds constructed upstream.

01:34:44 Speaker 05: Most recently, as the community would most commonly know it, is by the animal shelter.

01:34:55 Speaker 05: Is this in some way an admittance that what we've done upstream is not enough, or?

01:35:01 Speaker 05: a lot of this sediment is it pre-dating the construction of the upstream facilities, and we should look closer at scaling back and just replacing like for like in terms of size.

01:35:16 Speaker 05: Try to rein in the costs of of this proposed project.

01:35:24 Speaker 22: I'm gonna have a crack at this first chair, and then hopefully Director Whitfield can hop in.

01:35:30 Speaker 22: If I missed something, so the initial cost, yes, one two.

01:35:33 Speaker 22: That cost, to my understanding, now was solely to clean out for like for like for what has been filled in.

01:35:40 Speaker 22: I don't have an exact time frame, but it appears to be for some time.

01:35:44 Speaker 22: Yes, there's been a numerous amount of work done up near the animal shelter.

01:35:48 Speaker 22: So going through the master stormwater study with our consultant Tatum, the Kenny Drain receives, I think, a higher flow than. what was initially calculated in previous studies.

01:36:03 Speaker 22: So, looking at that, the drain as a whole requires greater storage and conveyance capacities.

01:36:09 Speaker 22: A lot of factors for this.

01:36:11 Speaker 22: We have the increased frequency of storms that we've obviously seen.

01:36:15 Speaker 22: So, in the models, they've calculated they've accounted for that change.

01:36:19 Speaker 22: Additionally, the east side of Ounce Sound has had some growth, some changes.

01:36:24 Speaker 22: While we've done that. so I think looking through their plan, the work we did at the animal shelter is just a a cog in the wheel.

01:36:53 Speaker 05: For instance, the Kenny Drain as a whole, like I previously mentioned, I think it's probably got five different components of projects that we'll have to do at some point in the capital plan moving forward.

01:37:03 Speaker 05: And then the pond cleanout and expansion is just step one of a broader picture. Okay, thanks for that.

01:37:04 Speaker 05: Not seeing any. further questions, so the recommendation is on the screen before us that the committee recommend that city council receive the report for information purposes,

01:37:06 Speaker 05: and that would be providing the direction as noted in the report.

01:37:08 Speaker 05: Councilor Farmer has so moved. All right.

01:37:11 Speaker 05: Not seeing any further questions.

01:37:12 Speaker 05: All those in favor, and that is carried unanimously. Thank you.

01:37:18 Speaker 05: And to item eight C one now regarding the. business case for Sand Dome replacement, thank you, Mr. Chair.

01:37:30 Speaker 06: This report is similar to the last one; that it's essentially informing the capital budget process.

01:37:37 Speaker 06: My understanding is that this this project has not been funded within the ten-year plan at this time,

01:37:44 Speaker 06: but we're providing the information so that committee and council are aware of the need and the logic behind it. the project is essentially replacing the two material domes on the public works site,

01:38:00 Speaker 06: and by material I mean there's sand in one and salt in the other, and creating one covered structure that houses both,

01:38:10 Speaker 06: and allows the loading and loading of the material into the trucks to be carried out under a covered under covered structure. that is.

01:38:22 Speaker 06: So this is meant to conform to the most updated salt management practices, and I will caveat it by the fact that it does not strictly have to be done indoors.

01:38:38 Speaker 06: And I mean the loading of the salt and salt laden material, but the alternative to that would be that it everything has to all the drainage. has to be captured somehow, confined, captured,

01:38:52 Speaker 06: and treated before it's allowed to leave the site.

01:38:56 Speaker 06: So, from our standpoint, this is the most financially and logically viable, logistically viable option.

01:39:07 Speaker 06: So, we've provided quite a bit of information there.

01:39:11 Speaker 06: We've proposed the type of structure that would be the quickest to erect because. it would have to be built between essentially the end of winter control and September or so,

01:39:26 Speaker 06: and when we start to receive the material.

01:39:29 Speaker 06: So, if there are any questions from the committee, myself or Mason would be able to answer them.

01:39:37 Speaker 11: Member Anderson, to you, Mr. Chair.

01:39:43 Speaker 11: I'm a little concerned when it was indicated that it's. not in our capital plan.

01:39:49 Speaker 11: It sounds like this is a significant problem.

01:39:52 Speaker 11: It sounds like it's been growing for a while.

01:39:55 Speaker 11: Why wasn't council looking at this plan and thinking in a ten-year term?

01:40:01 Speaker 11: Why was it not acted on sooner? Thank you, Member Anderson.

01:40:09 Speaker 06: Through you, Mr. Chair, it's it figures in our cap. Well. Capwell.

01:40:15 Speaker 06: Now that we've provided this report, staff are proposing that it be added to the capital program.

01:40:19 Speaker 06: It will be added in the unfunded list, so it will be there. It's just it.

01:40:26 Speaker 06: It was a late addition.

01:40:27 Speaker 06: I think if that's probably the best way to explain it.

01:40:30 Speaker 06: There is no funding that hasn't been allocated at this time to be able to fund this project within the ten-year time frame.

01:40:37 Speaker 06: So, we could propose to add it to year eleven when we're at that point. as our capital program is always on a 10-year rolling schedule, or we we could, yeah, that's that's really it actually.

01:40:49 Speaker 06: Because in order to fund this one, we would have to cancel other projects, and we are able to function the way that we have currently.

01:40:58 Speaker 06: We think that there's still enough life left in our domes, but we do need to have a plan for the future.

01:41:12 Speaker 11: Member Anderson, Mr. Chair, just to get to you, this is kind of interesting to me because I'm thinking we've got structures that are falling apart.

01:41:22 Speaker 11: We know they're going to fall apart.

01:41:23 Speaker 11: Are we looking at another crisis?

01:41:25 Speaker 11: Like, let's say it's going to last another few more years, and then we realize next year, oop, the roof fell in.

01:41:29 Speaker 11: We've got to fix it.

01:41:31 Speaker 11: Is there some way to expedite this process in our budget that we act before it falls in instead of while it falls in? I'll go to staff. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

01:41:44 Speaker 06: What I would suggest is that we can we can have probably an inspection done on them to determine what its useful life remaining is,

01:41:56 Speaker 06: or if there's any remediation that we can do in the meantime in order to squeeze those ten years out of them.

01:42:06 Speaker 01: I'll go to Councilor Merton.

01:42:07 Speaker 01: In the meantime, I'm going to keep looking because.

01:42:09 Speaker 01: I I was could be convinced that this had been on the capital plan just about three years ago, and I thought it was moving forward, and then it got scrubbed for another project.

01:42:18 Speaker 01: It was never that close.

01:42:28 Speaker 06: I received clarification from my colleague.

01:42:30 Speaker 06: Yes, so it was once upon a time, but it was half of the budget that we now know that it's going to cost. us, so that's that's what tipped it off of the funded list.

01:42:39 Speaker 06: Okay, that helps, Councillor Merton.

01:42:40 Speaker 06: Through you, Chair, I echo Member Anderson's concern.

01:42:45 Speaker 02: You know, when you know better, you can do better, and now we know.

01:42:51 Speaker 02: So, having an inspection, I think, is a good first step.

01:42:55 Speaker 02: We really need to get some factual information about the life expectancy relating to this dome. because I do think that's an important factor for planning ahead.

01:43:10 Speaker 02: Are there any options for grants recognizing that sand and salt are environmental issues?

01:43:19 Speaker 02: Is there an opportunity to explore if there's any grants or anything that may apply to this kind of process or project? Thank you, Councillor Merton.

01:43:30 Speaker 06: Through you, Mr. Chair, staff receive like. a newsletter weekly of available grants, and there are several of us I know in City Hall that are constantly scanning those newsletters.

01:43:46 Speaker 06: So, if such an opportunity arises, we will be on top of it. Any further, Member Hawkins? To you, Mr. Chair.

01:43:59 Speaker 23: Based on my work at. My work experience.

01:44:03 Speaker 23: I have a question regarding the tarp over steel terminology, because steel is corrosive.

01:44:12 Speaker 23: Is there any more details on the type of product that you're using that will stand up?

01:44:23 Speaker 22: Tarp over steel could be like a simplified term.

01:44:26 Speaker 22: I think we used some of the options we've looked at for. you know, I'm gonna call it canvas building or prefab building, just for clarification.

01:44:37 Speaker 22: They are readily put up for similar applications.

01:44:40 Speaker 22: We were given a couple examples in kind of preparation of our capital budget sheet and the report.

01:44:45 Speaker 22: I think a lot of times those are galvanized or stainless, so it's not specifically just steel because, yes, that's a very much a concern we have as well.

01:44:54 Speaker 22: When we put this up, we want it to last a long time. Okay. Thanks. Any further questions? Not seeing any online.

01:45:06 Speaker 01: I do have just one thing I'd like to note is.

01:45:11 Speaker 01: Last year the county replaced a collapsed dome at Chatsworth at the depot, and they replaced it with a 230 foot by 90 foot with a very generously high ceiling or roof,

01:45:26 Speaker 01: and it was approximately I think 1.

01:45:28 Speaker 01: Approximately, I think one point eight million dollars was in the original.

01:45:30 Speaker 01: This is proposing one hundred feet by one hundred and sixty feet, and approximating the same price.

01:45:40 Speaker 01: When staff bring this forward, would you have plans on on delivering an option B or an option C as opposed to like just the option A?

01:45:53 Speaker 01: Like this, kind of strikes me as the Lexus, and we can't all maybe just afford the. Lexus here?

01:45:59 Speaker 01: What does the Toyota Corolla look like?

01:46:01 Speaker 01: I appreciate the the the notes in the report.

01:46:04 Speaker 01: Like it's an environment Canada recommendation. It's a recommendation.

01:46:09 Speaker 01: It's not a mandate that we load inside.

01:46:13 Speaker 01: I mean, we don't want to lose our materials more than anyone because that costs us money to purchase those.

01:46:20 Speaker 01: It's in our best interest. But it is winter.

01:46:23 Speaker 01: Generally, when you're loading, it's not generally that you're. loading salt at four degrees in a downpour.

01:46:29 Speaker 01: It's generally in dry conditions.

01:46:31 Speaker 01: So there's other conditions or factors that can be considered here.

01:46:35 Speaker 01: Just wondering when this is returned.

01:46:37 Speaker 01: If there's, you know, some some latitude or some discretion in terms of direction, because the one point eight, you know, it's one point six million plus consulting meeting, just about one point nine million.

01:46:50 Speaker 01: That might be a little pricey. Through you, Mr. Chair.

01:46:57 Speaker 22: So when we looked at this, put the sheet together.

01:46:59 Speaker 22: I think our goal would be when we do the engineering, we would have a couple of different options.

01:47:04 Speaker 22: If we get a little bit more cost-effective option at that time, we would go with it.

01:47:12 Speaker 22: I think some of the challenges we have just the increase cost with materials.

01:47:21 Speaker 22: It seems to be going up. based on you know a similar building we did for the water department.

01:47:27 Speaker 22: I probably works a couple years this past year.

01:47:31 Speaker 22: We did not anticipate the prices that we were going to get back would be this high.

01:47:34 Speaker 22: It was kind of a surprise to us even.

01:47:37 Speaker 22: I think just some of the material costs with the tariffs had jumped that high, specifically steel.

01:47:41 Speaker 22: So we will look at some other options when it comes back.

01:47:45 Speaker 22: I think again, deck with the report.

01:47:48 Speaker 22: Don't necessarily have to load inside. but the alternative really is a fully curbed enclosed area with stormwater treatment, and so it's kind of a cost for cost, whatever the option would be.

01:47:57 Speaker 22: So there's there's a cost one way or the other, whether we treat the water or we put it inside.

01:48:03 Speaker 22: The benefit of inside is, is you know, committee remember we just purchased new payload over to expect and delivery here anytime that could be stored inside full time in a big facility like that.

01:48:13 Speaker 22: There's some other benefits to having the you know oversized.

01:48:18 Speaker 22: The oversized facility to load inside, but things we will look at when it comes back. Thanks for that, Mason.

01:48:26 Speaker 22: So, not seeing any further questions.

01:48:29 Speaker 05: The recommendation is: the committee recommends city council receive the report for information purposes.

01:48:34 Speaker 05: Do I have a mover, Member Jordan? So moved. No further discussion. All those in favor? And that's carried unanimously. Thank you.

01:48:42 Speaker 05: We are through the business items. We've got oh.

01:48:47 Speaker 05: I thought we had one item of correspondence.

01:48:55 Speaker 05: My version didn't print the same. So, oh, yeah.

01:49:08 Speaker 05: So now we're done the paperwork. Where it's on neither.

01:49:14 Speaker 05: Next item then is. the motion for which notice was previously given.

01:49:21 Speaker 05: Then we have a memo, so I will go back to Councillor Farmer this time to introduce that motion for which notice was previously given.

01:49:31 Speaker 04: Okay, thank you to the chair.

01:49:33 Speaker 04: So, whereas the City of Onondaga receives annual collision statistics identifying the intersections with the highest numbers of collisions,

01:49:41 Speaker 04: and whereas it is widely accepted by organizations ranging from the Ontario Society of Professional Engineers to Strong Towns and the Owen Sound Police Service that street design is a contributing factor to rates of collision and injury,

01:49:55 Speaker 04: and whereas the City of Owen Sound currently has no mechanism by which to examine the common design or operational factors that contribute to higher numbers of collisions at certain intersections,

01:50:05 Speaker 04: or to identify possible safety interventions, and whereas Strong Towns has developed a tool called the Crash Analysis Studio to. assist municipalities and individuals in identifying and addressing patterns and contributing factors to crashes,

01:50:20 Speaker 04: and whereas the City of Owen Sound has updated the board and committee structure for the next term of council to simplify the striking of working groups to assess and bring recommendations to address specific problems on set timelines,

01:50:33 Speaker 04: therefore be it resolved a that the operations committee requests that following the 2026 municipal election, Owen Sound strike a crash.

01:50:42 Speaker 04: Analysis Working Group for two thousand and twenty-seven.

01:50:45 Speaker 04: B that the working group consist of three to five members.

01:50:48 Speaker 04: C that the working group analyze contributing factors and identify potential safety interventions for the three intersections with the highest numbers of reported collisions in two thousand and twenty-five,

01:50:59 Speaker 04: which were first Tenth Street and Ninth Avenue East with fifteen collisions, second Sixteenth Street and Ninth Avenue East with fourteen collisions, C Tenth Street and Fourth Avenue East with. 14 collisions.

01:51:12 Speaker 04: The working group and D that the working group deliver their final report to the September 2027 committee meeting.

01:51:21 Speaker 04: I'll start by I'll speak to that now, and then I'm I'm really eager to hear folks' thoughts.

01:51:29 Speaker 04: I'll start by saying that I'm open to considering friendly amendments if members of committee have thoughts or suggestions to share.

01:51:31 Speaker 04: I'm bringing this motion for a few reasons.

01:51:33 Speaker 04: The first is that we know that our streets are not as safe as they can be, and that the city does not have the staff.

01:51:39 Speaker 04: Does not have the staffing or financial resources to identify and immediately address every potential improvement for safety.

01:51:45 Speaker 04: What the city does have the capacity to do is to partner with citizens in identifying problems and potential solutions before assessing the viability of of those solutions.

01:51:56 Speaker 04: Most of our neighbors want to participate, I think, in making their community safer and also more livable, which the community members here are clearly demonstrating because y'all are signing.

01:52:06 Speaker 04: Demonstrating because y'all are signed up to volunteer on a committee like this, I think if we can offer more opportunities to participate in specific ways,

01:52:14 Speaker 04: then we can reap the double benefits of increasing public engagement and addressing known issues without either hiring high cost consultants or burning out city staff by having more and more asks of them,

01:52:25 Speaker 04: without necessarily more resources or folks to share that that load with.

01:52:32 Speaker 04: Strong Towns is a proven model that identifies risk factors and is oriented to act.

01:52:35 Speaker 04: And is oriented to actionable and cost-effective solutions.

01:52:38 Speaker 04: It's not about immediately redesigning and rebuilding intersections.

01:52:41 Speaker 04: We know we can't do that right away, but there are maybe other interventions that can increase safety.

01:52:46 Speaker 04: And the city will have a new structure for working groups as of the next term of council.

01:52:50 Speaker 04: And I think it's a great opportunity for us to try that out proactively at the start of the term.

01:52:56 Speaker 04: Theoretically, once the group has identified contributing factors and potential solutions for those intersections with the most crashes, then committee and council can decide. whether or when to accept those solutions.

01:53:06 Speaker 04: There is no obligation to sign up for big ticket costs if they're not feasible, knowing the pressures on the the budget and bottom line.

01:53:16 Speaker 04: And I think we should care about the bottom line, like that's that's a real thing.

01:53:21 Speaker 04: But the financial cost can't, I don't think, be our only concern.

01:53:36 Speaker 04: We also need to think about safety and livability, and a crash analysis working group can do that and ask those questions in a really economical way. we're surrounded by intelligent and motivated people,

01:53:45 Speaker 04: and I think we should invite some of them to turn their time and talents toward the question of what we can do to reduce the numbers of collisions at intersections that we know have the most in the city.

01:53:47 Speaker 04: And from my perspective, we've got nothing to lose by putting this into the work plan.

01:53:50 Speaker 04: And if it's successful, it can even be maybe an annual process that helps more people to proactively think about the safety of our roads, streets, and neighborhoods.

01:54:31 Speaker 11: With that, I'm. happy to and eager to hear from committee, and also open to entertaining, yes, suggestions for from the amendments, more questions, etc. Thank you, Councilor Farmer.

01:54:40 Speaker 11: I'll go to Member Anderson first. Three, Mr. Chair, John. I'm just curious.

01:54:42 Speaker 11: You mentioned a three to five sort of composition of the group. Is there any idea?

01:54:44 Speaker 04: how you'd like to see that composition grow, based on some information that you've already provided to us, or how other sort of groups have done this?

01:54:46 Speaker 04: Maybe, are we thinking five community members or two councilors and one community member?

01:54:48 Speaker 04: I'm just curious what the composition might, in theory, be.

01:54:49 Speaker 04: Through the chair, I'll speak to that.

01:54:51 Speaker 04: I wanted to provide a buffer there.

01:54:52 Speaker 04: I think two is too few, and that odd numbers are generally good if you're trying. to break ties or come to consensus.

01:55:01 Speaker 04: But the how that working group functions will be up to the the specific terms that that guide it and the group of people themselves.

01:55:11 Speaker 04: I thought three to five because that lets you get a variety of perspectives, and I also think that that composition, based on the new committee and council like bylaws,

01:55:23 Speaker 04: there would allow the next term of council to say. will like if we only have three people who sign up to be on working groups in the recruitment process in the fall,

01:55:35 Speaker 04: which is part of the general will now be part of the general committee recruitment process that everyone on committee went through yourselves.

01:55:43 Speaker 04: That if we don't have a lot of people sign up for that in the first go, giving a window says we can still do that with three people.

01:55:51 Speaker 04: If there are more people who want to be involved, or if council or committee decide that. they want to have three members of the public,

01:55:57 Speaker 04: but also want to make sure that a staff member or a council member is there as well. There is that flexibility.

01:56:03 Speaker 04: I thought by adding a range of potential committee members, but the working groups also don't have to have staff.

01:56:11 Speaker 04: They don't have to have members of council, and I think that's one of the neat things about the new proposed thing.

01:56:18 Speaker 04: So I wanted to allow flexibility and not lock us into we've got to have. seven people, and then if only four apply, then we can't do the thing.

01:56:29 Speaker 02: Councilor Merton, through you, Chair.

01:56:33 Speaker 02: I agree that we need to look at safety.

01:56:37 Speaker 02: We have statistics that prove there are certain areas are are higher risk for collision.

01:56:45 Speaker 02: I do believe police services, or certainly the collision center, would be a valuable asset to participate in whatever. becomes determined to move forward.

01:56:55 Speaker 02: When I read the notice of motion, I did communicate with the director around how this might fit in with a transportation master plan, and the time frame around it,

01:57:09 Speaker 02: and how it would fit within a complete networks analysis.

01:57:14 Speaker 02: We know where collisions happen primarily, but it's not the only place.

01:57:19 Speaker 02: And are there lessons that could be learned?

01:57:21 Speaker 02: throughout our city that help to enhance that?

01:57:23 Speaker 02: So, with your forbearance, Chair, I'm wondering if the director can speak to how the time frame for the the network, the transportation study,

01:57:33 Speaker 02: and your thoughts about how this might be something that could be an enhancement of a process.

01:57:37 Speaker 02: Through the chair to Councilor Merton.

01:57:43 Speaker 06: So, the transportation master plan is currently scheduled for. two thousand and twenty-eight.

01:57:50 Speaker 06: This working group—I think that's what we're calling it, right? Working group.

01:57:58 Speaker 06: Assuming it launches in two thousand and twenty-seven, it would certainly, I would think, have some information that could feed into the transportation master plan.

01:58:08 Speaker 06: If nothing else, they would be a readily available group of people that could engage on it.

01:58:14 Speaker 06: I would think, and yeah, further to. what you mentioned, the the intent for this this upcoming transportation master plan is to have it as a comprehensive, like really live up to its name,

01:58:28 Speaker 06: transportation of all types across the city.

01:58:31 Speaker 06: So it would include transit, active transportation, cycling, which is I guess implied in active transportation.

01:58:40 Speaker 06: I mean, pedestrian and cycling, and however people get around, and then vehicles, obviously. that's the main the main driver for it.

01:58:48 Speaker 06: But the the point is to have a complete network of ways that people can move around the city, get on the bus, you know, ride their bike to this stop,

01:58:56 Speaker 06: move on the bus over here, or you know, drive here and then walk over here.

01:59:04 Speaker 06: It's it's meant to be taken as a whole.

01:59:09 Speaker 06: Separating out all the layers sort of reduces the. ability to see how they all work together.

01:59:18 Speaker 06: Did I answer your question? Yeah. Through you, Chair.

01:59:23 Speaker 02: I heard you say that the task force may may be able to offer input into this transportation plan.

01:59:35 Speaker 02: It would also be a way to test the tool on a small group that would allow you know to see whether that tool would have. implications in the future as well,

01:59:45 Speaker 02: so it's almost like a pilot project of a tool that can enhance our understanding.

01:59:51 Speaker 02: I absolutely agree with involving the public.

01:59:56 Speaker 02: Our public are the people who use the transportation system, and I do think this is a great opportunity to engage the public in having input on something we do every day. Get around our city. Thank you. Okay. Thank you.

02:00:12 Speaker 02: Any further questions, Member Jordan? Then Member Ind. There we go. Through the chair.

02:00:29 Speaker 09: Let me begin by thanking Councilor Farmer for his consideration of a longstanding concern for traffic conditions in Olds. Out.

02:00:37 Speaker 09: There's a lot of wherases.

02:00:40 Speaker 09: To begin, it appears that Councillor Farmer is utilizing some new procedural opportunities to highlight contemporary public issues and concerns.

02:00:51 Speaker 09: I am, however, puzzled by one of the "whereas" clauses, which I will attempt to clarify.

02:00:57 Speaker 09: The second clause draws attention to an apparent assumption that a primary cause of traffic collisions in Oceanside, especially at specified intersections, is due to design. features.

02:01:10 Speaker 09: I've driven the streets of Oceanside for 40 years, and yes, some intersections handle traffic better than others, such as the timings of the signals.

02:01:21 Speaker 09: What I have observed during my residence in the city is that the problems are less about intersection designs, but rather decisions made by drivers traversing those intersections.

02:01:35 Speaker 09: When I observe the numerous drivers who fail. to see or choose to ignore the traffic signage and signals, and traffic flow around them, that is the problem.

02:01:46 Speaker 09: I am not aware of a way that the city or paid consultant can measure that parameter, since it's an issue of driver behavior.

02:01:55 Speaker 09: As such, I'm not sure the councillor farmer's proposal is properly focused, an expenditure that's not going to resolve the concern.

02:02:04 Speaker 09: For that reason, I am. opposed to the motion. Thanks, Member Jordan. Member Indo.

02:02:23 Speaker 20: Sorry, like the design, in my mind, would be talked and about and discussed when you were. designing the intersection,

02:02:38 Speaker 20: like even if you have a committee and it comes up that you could have a better design, you're not going to redo the intersection.

02:02:48 Speaker 20: That's one little point that I thought.

02:02:52 Speaker 20: Member Jordan and the driving—you just have to sit at some of these intersections and watch the drivers. it's a wee bit scary.

02:03:06 Speaker 20: I don't know how you solve that.

02:03:10 Speaker 20: Maybe a different design on some, like maybe they're confusing.

02:03:16 Speaker 20: Like Sixteenth Street in particular, and Ninth Avenue is a very very busy intersection, and it can be confusing when you're going through on Sixteenth Street.

02:03:27 Speaker 20: You have the green light.

02:03:29 Speaker 20: You know you can go, or you can go over. to the right, and there's people.

02:03:33 Speaker 20: I don't know how these accidents happen. I would be curious. Are they increasing?

02:03:40 Speaker 20: How much have they increased each year?

02:03:42 Speaker 20: I would think the police would know that, and they probably have some input into maybe what could be done as well.

02:03:52 Speaker 20: If anything, I don't know.

02:03:53 Speaker 20: The police can't sit at every corner all the time, but I struggle to support this. as well.

02:04:01 Speaker 20: I'm not saying I'm not going to right now until I hear more comments.

02:04:04 Speaker 20: But at this moment, I'm not prepared to support it. Thank you. Okay. Thank you.

02:04:14 Speaker 24: And go back to Member Jordan a second time. And yeah.

02:04:22 Speaker 09: With regards to intersection designs, what comes to mind is a long-standing issue.

02:04:28 Speaker 09: I've had with the intersection of Ninth Avenue and Sixteenth East by the liquor store,

02:04:34 Speaker 09: and it's an issue I've discussed with the engineering department over the years and the police department over the years over the lane designations at that intersection and the signage and the oversight by drivers. It's a mess.

02:04:51 Speaker 09: Just to familiarize people here, when you're going northbound, the right hand.

02:04:56 Speaker 09: The right-hand lane, as you approach 16th, is signposted and painted as a right-turn lane.

02:05:05 Speaker 09: People have continuously driven through that intersection as if it were a through lane.

02:05:11 Speaker 09: I've had engineers and I've had the city police stand beside me at that intersection and observed the lack of driver concern for addressing that intersection properly.

02:05:22 Speaker 09: I would get excuses like, "Oh, but the liquor store is on." the other side.

02:05:26 Speaker 09: No, this issue predates the construction of the liquor store. That's just an excuse.

02:05:32 Speaker 09: But if there's no, and another one comes to mind is First Avenue West and Tenth Street, about the shop of Doug Mert.

02:05:42 Speaker 09: That intersection is a boondoggle because people aren't paying attention to the posted signs.

02:05:48 Speaker 09: Do not block the intersection.

02:05:50 Speaker 09: Maybe once in a rare while, you'll see a constable. standing at the intersection.

02:05:55 Speaker 09: I don't know what he can do as far as flagging and ticketing vehicles that aren't complying, but it's a constant irritation and a congestion with people running the yellow lights, running the red lights,

02:06:05 Speaker 09: and just causing more confusion.

02:06:12 Speaker 09: And it's all because of decisions that the drivers are making because they come first, and the regulation.

02:06:21 Speaker 09: And the regulations come last. Okay. Anything further?

02:06:23 Speaker 09: Go back to Councilor Farmer to respond.

02:06:34 Speaker 25: Well, actually, if you'd like, I'll go to Member Schrader first, then you can recap.

02:06:40 Speaker 08: Thank you, through the chair.

02:06:42 Speaker 08: Just to Member Jordan, I think you almost contradicted yourself there a little bit in saying that the design doesn't make a difference, but then saying that there's lack.

02:06:51 Speaker 08: Than saying that there's lack of signage and lack of you know notice apprehensively for people driving on that road.

02:06:57 Speaker 08: As a member who's driven on that road for 40 years, you know that that's a right-hand turn only lane.

02:07:02 Speaker 08: As someone who's only moved here three four years ago, it took quite a while to learn that even though there's a lane across the road from you, that lane is not available to you.

02:07:12 Speaker 08: So that is something that design might be available to assess. not saying that is the best use, but if we're getting volunteers to do this working group, then why not look into it?

02:07:30 Speaker 05: And just before I maybe go back to you, I'll go to Member Hawkins.

02:07:35 Speaker 05: She had a question, Councilor Burke.

02:07:39 Speaker 23: Yeah, through you, Mr. Chair.

02:07:41 Speaker 23: I think that maybe the word design is what's throwing it off. in terms of looking at it on a whole.

02:07:53 Speaker 23: I've only been here for six years, and I remember a time where the lane by the LCBO was a straight through.

02:08:01 Speaker 23: It was designated that way, so I think it changed recently in the last couple of years because that is my favorite store to go to.

02:08:10 Speaker 23: But I do believe that if you're looking at the strategic plan for. 2050, and you're encompassing everything for drivers that are unaware of the changes.

02:08:25 Speaker 23: There are new technologies, new signage, new things that grab attention that could possibly be incorporated into helping reduce some of these accidents.

02:08:42 Speaker 23: You know, whether like I get really frustrated. when I'm driving down Tenth Street and there's an advance left-hand turn or an advance right-hand turn and the person in front of me is not turning.

02:08:56 Speaker 23: Like there is probably some ideas that a team or a pilot project group could come up with for maybe streamlining some ideas for making these safer.

02:09:10 Speaker 23: And I believe we touched base before. on one of our meetings, that some of this technology at these intersections is going to be revisited for making them accessible.

02:09:25 Speaker 23: So there will be changes in the future for the 2050 plan. Thank you.

02:09:33 Speaker 01: We don't have the time this evening for me to talk about all the reports and traffic studies I've read going back to the 90s and. differing opinions from engineering firms on how to correct the left turns, and everyone's different.

02:09:48 Speaker 01: I just want to be quick here.

02:09:50 Speaker 01: I think I saw a hand go up to Member Anderson, who hasn't spoken to the note to the motion yet, and then present the Councilor Farmer a chance to wrap up.

02:10:01 Speaker 11: Thank you, three, Mr. Chair.

02:10:03 Speaker 11: I like the conversation that Member Hawkins was bringing forward about trying new things, about having a group organize. and perhaps develop some strategies that we might not know about,

02:10:12 Speaker 11: and councilor Farmer has identified a particular program that might be of use for a group that starts this thing, so I would be in support of the current motion.

02:10:20 Speaker 11: Okay, and would you like to wrap up, councilor Farmer?

02:10:23 Speaker 11: Noting we're at seven forty, go ahead.

02:10:27 Speaker 11: Thank you, through the chair.

02:10:29 Speaker 11: I'll try not to get us to the mark of a Boeing aircraft in the length of my comment.

02:10:37 Speaker 04: In the length of my comments, to clear up maybe a misunderstanding with the number of warases, and I I will beg the forgiveness of my colleagues here.

02:10:47 Speaker 04: I do lean towards providing too much information sometimes.

02:11:15 Speaker 04: I do want to highlight that one of the edits that I made after some input from staff for my initial draft, which this is not, is that language of in the second clause there. Oh, sorry, third. Oh, sorry. Yeah, sorry. Follow the screen.

02:11:24 Speaker 04: That street design is a contributing factor to rates of collision and injury.

02:11:26 Speaker 04: I did provide for committee as well a number of links leading up to the meeting today, which also included the report that Strong Towns released,

02:11:28 Speaker 04: wrapping up a number of lessons from 18 crash analysis projects in a variety of cities across North America,

02:11:48 Speaker 04: and. the it's I think a bit of a truism to say that it's like guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

02:11:57 Speaker 04: Like it's not intersection design; it's how people use intersections and and vehicles.

02:11:59 Speaker 04: And when it comes to traffic calming and road safety more generally,

02:12:01 Speaker 04: it it is widely accepted that things like speed bumps and signage and the width of lanes have an impact on how people want to move through those spaces.

02:12:02 Speaker 04: So if if my colleagues heard read in this that I thought that street design is the only thing, and if we had autonomous cars and and the intersection was designed perfectly,

02:12:19 Speaker 04: there'd never be any any crashes. That's not the case.

02:12:28 Speaker 04: That's not what I'm trying to say here.

02:12:29 Speaker 04: What I am trying to say is that things like that.

02:12:31 Speaker 04: If we take design as a global term for things like signage, painting,

02:12:33 Speaker 04: the presence of things like the flexible delineator rods. the ones that you bolt down and then if you run into them they just flap over they don't ruin your car but it does give you

02:12:39 Speaker 04: a cue that you've got to thread the needle so you're going to slow down for that I can think of a number of intersections that if I were king of the world we would put

02:12:45 Speaker 04: a few more visible signs up to say this goes right this goes left Fourth and Fourteenth Street West Fourth Avenue Fourteenth Street West is a key one there lived here for a long time and. always confused. Still, takes some thinking.

02:13:00 Speaker 04: And for me, what this comes down to is we know that there is room for improvement.

02:13:11 Speaker 04: We have demonstrated here that people who live here, and travel these roads often, through their exposure to the use of those intersections, gain insight.

02:13:25 Speaker 04: And we also know that staff do a lot of work, and that if we only. assume the people responsible for safety and highlighting what we need to improve safety in that design again,

02:13:36 Speaker 04: whether design is paint, traffic calming measures, timing of of lights, width of width of travel lanes, any of those factors, those are things that we can identify.

02:13:49 Speaker 04: Which is also why we have a report a concern tool that collects public feedback.

02:13:54 Speaker 04: A process like this, I think, has the benefit of being focused in its intention. using a tool that has been demonstrated to produce consistent and actionable recommendations,

02:14:05 Speaker 04: I will note that the there are what six or seven factors identified in the report,

02:14:12 Speaker 04: and that ranges from common factors from the speed of the road in urban areas to designs that don't adequately account for people. walking and biking.

02:14:28 Speaker 04: That intersection at the Tenth Street Bridge and Shoppers at First and Tenth West.

02:14:32 Speaker 04: I'm often on my commute between the daycare and my office, walking across going north, and because there are two lanes of traffic there that are a little bit forward,

02:14:41 Speaker 04: anyone coming up to make a right-hand turn, who's inclined to roll through an intersection, the number of times I make eye contact with someone who mouths the words "sorry" as they keep going,

02:14:51 Speaker 04: having just cut me off while I'm within arm's distance. which is a problem if I'm pushing a stroller, because the stroller is also the length of my arm.

02:14:59 Speaker 04: That there are things there that we, that could be as simple as paint, could be as simple as a pylon, could be as simple.

02:15:07 Speaker 04: I'm just going to cut in here.

02:15:09 Speaker 01: It's been five minutes while you've been wrapping up, and you're allotted five minutes to speak to the motion.

02:15:14 Speaker 01: This is your second time, so if you could really wrap up, and I will call the vote. Thank. Thank you.

02:15:21 Speaker 04: I appreciate the chair's forgiveness. This doesn't cost anything.

02:15:26 Speaker 04: It identifies a known problem and tries out a new solution.

02:15:32 Speaker 04: And I think that if we know that we have a problem and we know that there are potential tools to address that problem,

02:15:37 Speaker 04: then it's our responsibility to not just sit and wait for someone else to solve something that we could participate in making better. Okay, thank you.

02:15:46 Speaker 01: And not seeing any further questions, I believe we saw we've lost a member from the meeting.

02:15:52 Speaker 01: I think. we've lost the virtual attendee, Councillor Hamley.

02:15:55 Speaker 01: You spoke twice, Member Jordan, so please forgive me.

02:15:58 Speaker 01: I'm going to call the vote at this time.

02:16:01 Speaker 01: All those in favour, and those opposed, and that motion carries five to two. Thank you very much.

02:16:13 Speaker 01: We've got one remaining item of under correspondence before us this evening.

02:16:17 Speaker 01: It's a memo from Grey County regarding. the waste management service review, would staff just like to speak to that?

02:16:25 Speaker 01: We've all read it, but is there anything there staff would like to highlight?

02:16:32 Speaker 22: Yeah, real quickly, staff are aware we've been involved.

02:16:35 Speaker 22: Heidi's been in contact with both county staff and the consultant, Dylan.

02:16:39 Speaker 22: Dylan did our own waste management study there in 2023, I believe.

02:16:44 Speaker 22: So they had a lot of our data already.

02:16:46 Speaker 22: We just had to give them the difference, basically 24, 25.

02:16:49 Speaker 22: The difference, basically, twenty-four, twenty-five.

02:16:50 Speaker 22: You know, looking at ways to optimize waste in Gray County as a coal zone version, and I think we're hoping to have some recommendations in a draft form late this year,

02:17:01 Speaker 22: and hopefully a final report in Q one, Q two of twenty twenty-seven. If I understand correctly.

02:17:07 Speaker 26: Are there any questions from committee regarding the memo?

02:17:11 Speaker 05: This has the potential to be a very big deal for Gray County, member.

02:17:18 Speaker 05: Anderson, you mentioned earlier about sediment in a in a stormwater catchment drain.

02:17:25 Speaker 05: I would be fully on side with reopening Genoa landfill to utilize for exactly that type of material.

02:17:34 Speaker 05: We are running out of landfill space very quickly in the province of Ontario.

02:17:39 Speaker 05: The last waste management study at the county level was I think 1999, and the county has. so far worked collaboratively to bring this direction forward to this point.

02:17:51 Speaker 05: So thanks to staff for your involvement to this point.

02:17:54 Speaker 05: It's great to hear, and many of us are are looking forward to what type of outcomes might be contained within the draft.

02:18:02 Speaker 05: So probably just I don't need a motion to receive.

02:18:06 Speaker 05: You want a motion to receive for information.

02:18:10 Speaker 05: Councilor Merton has so moved.

02:18:12 Speaker 05: All those in favor, and that's carried. Thank you.

02:18:15 Speaker 05: We are through the items of business before us this evening.

02:18:20 Speaker 05: Under twelve, we had a few items of discuss of additional business.

02:18:24 Speaker 27: I'll go to Councilor Merton first. Through you, Chair.

02:18:30 Speaker 02: Unfortunately, recently, a child was struck by a vehicle at an intersection in our city.

02:18:39 Speaker 02: We have received letters of concern from neighbors and. parents of children, and those letters have gone to the city staff.

02:18:50 Speaker 02: So I would turn to the director for an update on city staff, what's been done so far, and then I may have an additional question.

02:19:00 Speaker 02: Through the chair, so staffer. Staff are obviously aware.

02:19:02 Speaker 02: We were made aware of the situation.

02:19:15 Speaker 06: You know, on behalf of all the staff, we're obviously saddened to hear of an issue like that, and we recognize the seriousness of it.

02:19:25 Speaker 06: We did respond to the residents that reached out to us, and we're in contact with the police services. They're conducting their investigation.

02:19:38 Speaker 06: They'll loop back to us if there is any.

02:19:40 Speaker 06: Us, if there's any action that we can take on this, but before we identify any next steps, we will be waiting for some guidance from the Oceanside Police Services.

02:19:42 Speaker 06: That being said, any safety concerns and suggestions that have been raised by either the residents and then obviously from the police when that comes will be reviewed as part of that process.

02:20:07 Speaker 06: I know that they're they're continuing with their investigation.

02:20:11 Speaker 06: So if anybody has any information, they would be the best people to contact.

02:20:16 Speaker 02: Councilor Martin, through you, Chair.

02:20:20 Speaker 02: Thank you for that, and I would ask that an update report come back to this committee once the report comes in.

02:20:28 Speaker 02: Those who who wrote did have some specific suggestions from those who live in the neighborhood and those who drive in the neighborhood as well. and it would be helpful to be able to at least

02:20:42 Speaker 02: look at that and find out where in the whole picture,

02:20:48 Speaker 02: if a city action may be required.

02:20:51 Speaker 02: And I think closing the loop on communication is critical.

02:20:54 Speaker 02: So I would ask that an update be provided to this committee. Thank you.

02:20:58 Speaker 02: How abnormal is that for staff to do?

02:21:08 Speaker 01: We have a process in place.

02:21:10 Speaker 01: Staff spoke to the fact that we have a process. They gather the information.

02:21:17 Speaker 01: They don't have a general practice of reporting back on every collision item within the city.

02:21:28 Speaker 01: Do staff wish to comment on that, or perhaps you're asking for?

02:21:34 Speaker 01: staff to undertake an action here, and perhaps a notice of motion would be more appropriate. You're asking for direction.

02:21:44 Speaker 01: I think I'll just go to staff first. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

02:21:52 Speaker 06: I'm trying to think of like I don't know how much information.

02:21:59 Speaker 06: At the end of the day, we're even going to be able to talk. about in open, or even that I'll even receive.

02:22:06 Speaker 06: That being said, if there were any infrastructure changes that would be suggested, we would that would I think cycle through the normal process of like project approval.

02:22:17 Speaker 06: Like I, I don't have a major opposition to bringing back something brief in that, but I, I can't promise when that will be because I don't know when that will happen.

02:22:44 Speaker 01: I'll go back to you as, as a member on the police board.

02:22:48 Speaker 01: I mean, you have more line of sight than most people, even on items like this that that you work with there, Councillor Merton. Through you, Chair.

02:22:55 Speaker 02: So I'm going to leave the. hat on that I have currently, which is a member of this committee and a councillor.

02:23:13 Speaker 02: We just spent a significant amount of time around the motion, around collision analysis.

02:23:22 Speaker 02: We have an incident where a child was struck.

02:23:24 Speaker 02: We've agreed that a working group to inform and educate on options was passed as a result of the motion.

02:23:27 Speaker 02: This is a specific. instance that can't wait for six months or eight months for a committee to be struck.

02:23:34 Speaker 02: And when the letters came forward, the letters indicated there were several responsibilities, obviously.

02:23:42 Speaker 02: And for the city of Owen Sound, things like exploring the feasibility of adding a grass strip as a buffer, establishing a community safety zone was suggested,

02:23:54 Speaker 02: an additional crosswalk on Alpha Street. the option of a crossing guard.

02:23:59 Speaker 02: Those are all solutions, suggestions, options that it would be helpful for this committee, based on the police services' recommendation,

02:24:10 Speaker 02: to know whether staff wishes to proceed with considering these options that came from our community for the safety of those who are using that intersection.

02:24:22 Speaker 02: If we want to pass a motion about an alpha.

02:24:25 Speaker 02: A motion about analysis of collisions.

02:24:27 Speaker 02: I think this would be a good opportunity to at least ask for feedback about a very specific instance where we know there's been an injury.

02:24:38 Speaker 01: My only comment to that would be, our primary focus should be on process at this time. Councillor Farmer.

02:24:47 Speaker 04: Through the chair, I obviously support analyzing crashes.

02:24:51 Speaker 04: We've had a number of fatal crashes in this term of council. that we've not asked for similar responses to, and I would appreciate.

02:25:01 Speaker 04: Like, I agree with the the chair that if we are requesting specific action, that that should be done through a notice of motion.

02:25:10 Speaker 04: We have the ability to waive a notice of motion requirement as well.

02:25:14 Speaker 04: If the my colleague thinks that this is time sensitive, in that way specifically, but I would also. in that, wonder why we didn't, why we haven't requested similar things for fatal collisions,

02:25:28 Speaker 04: acknowledging that the safety of, like, I've got a four-year-old.

02:25:31 Speaker 04: I'm totally sympathetic to the, the importance of this and around bus stops in particular.

02:25:37 Speaker 04: I think there's a lot to be said for pylons too.

02:25:39 Speaker 04: So, I, but my, my additional business question might build on this particular thing.

02:25:45 Speaker 04: But as a point of process, I would appreciate an opportunity to vote on either waiving a notice of motion for.

02:25:50 Speaker 04: Waving a notice of motion for a requirement for a notice of motion, or I would second a notice of motion to to discuss at the next meeting, if for the sake of discussion.

02:26:01 Speaker 04: But I don't think it's appropriate procedurally to provide direction without warning. Anything further, Councilor Martin? Through you, Chair.

02:26:16 Speaker 02: What I'm requesting is for an. update on the instant where our public have communicated suggestions to staff about options that may be appropriate.

02:26:29 Speaker 02: If there is another process that would assist us in having that communication loop closed, I'm certainly open to those suggestions.

02:26:40 Speaker 02: I don't recall receiving requests from the fatal crashes with suggestions around the. intersections, but I could be wrong.

02:26:50 Speaker 02: I just don't recall this one.

02:26:52 Speaker 02: I recall, and we've received the information from several different parents.

02:26:57 Speaker 02: So I'm certainly willing to bring forward a motion,

02:27:03 Speaker 02: whether it's a notice of motion to ask staff to come back with a follow up report based on what they have learned from the police services investigation and on review. of the specific requests that

02:27:18 Speaker 02: the community members have brought forward,

02:27:21 Speaker 02: if there is further action that the city needs to take.

02:27:30 Speaker 01: And I'm not seeing any further questions.

02:27:35 Speaker 01: No action at this time. Okay. Next item. Who?

02:27:42 Speaker 01: Member Anderson had an item. Go ahead. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

02:27:46 Speaker 11: Just for committee's wellness and awareness and education, today is Global Accessibility Awareness Day, G A A D. Gad.

02:27:55 Speaker 11: Just wanted to share this with everyone that when you go out this evening and you head home, just think about how aware and how accessible your environment is that you're traveling through, your buildings,

02:28:04 Speaker 11: your streets, and any sort of technology you might be using. Is it accessible?

02:28:08 Speaker 11: Thank you, Member Anderson and Member Far.

02:28:13 Speaker 11: Member Anderson and Member Farmer had the last item before us this evening.

02:28:16 Speaker 11: Thank you, through the chair.

02:28:18 Speaker 04: So, also inspired by the correspondence that Councils received by a number, a number of residents and parents in the neighborhood where that collision happened this week,

02:28:28 Speaker 04: I'm wondering if staff could speak to the what the options are within our current policies for neighborhoods or individuals to request either permanent or seasonal traffic calming measures or interventions,

02:28:41 Speaker 04: acknowledging. that I don't think the process is currently random emails, and that we could clarify that so folks can follow those channels.

02:28:51 Speaker 01: Well, we had a fulsome report just a couple years ago that outlined the process, and Director Whitfield likely has it right in front of her, pulled up.

02:28:59 Speaker 01: And if I talk long enough, it'll give her that extra couple seconds.

02:29:02 Speaker 28: But she's ready to go to speak to that process. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

02:29:08 Speaker 06: Yes, indeed, we have we have a policy. that was adopted in I don't know when, but a couple years ago, and it's called Neighborhood Traffic Calming Policy PRT zero zero one.

02:29:24 Speaker 06: It is available on our website under Bylaws and Policies.

02:29:29 Speaker 06: So if you type in pretty much any of those terms, you should be able to get to it.

02:29:37 Speaker 06: It outlines what traffic calming is, what traffic. calming isn't, how you request traffic calming, where it applies, and so to that I can brief.

02:29:48 Speaker 06: I can quickly read through the traffic calming process.

02:29:54 Speaker 06: The it's if it's an initiated, but essentially, I guess probably a fair number of people on the committee will understand the local improvement process,

02:30:05 Speaker 06: but it follows essentially that kind of principle. requester can submit a request to the city.

02:30:12 Speaker 06: They should ideally request at least fifty percent of the affected group.

02:30:19 Speaker 06: So, if it's a neighborhood, that's why it's tailored towards neighborhood traffic calming.

02:30:25 Speaker 06: So, if it's a neighborhood, it's a group of people in the neighborhood that are getting together and saying to the city, "We would like to investigate traffic calming on this street." We log the request.

02:30:37 Speaker 06: We follow up with some traffic count, traffic monitoring to see if there is or is not a legitimate speeding concern.

02:30:48 Speaker 06: If there is, we go through the the three E's.

02:30:57 Speaker 06: In order is education, enforcement, and then engineering.

02:31:22 Speaker 06: So education first is where. we want to see, like the people of the neighborhood themselves, trying to promote the you know each other, slowing down whatever the behavior is that they want to see.

02:31:32 Speaker 06: This doesn't apply to every road, but a lot of roads, the people that are speeding are the people that are actually living there.

02:31:34 Speaker 06: So the hope is that they talk to each other and you know get each other mostly on board.

02:31:35 Speaker 06: We would not like to see like the the children cutouts because that adds to sign clutter.

02:31:39 Speaker 06: That's a whole another thing.

02:31:40 Speaker 06: That's a topic for another day.

02:31:42 Speaker 06: But it's it's all about the education.

02:31:46 Speaker 06: It's your sort of grassroots guilt each other into driving at the correct speed.

02:31:52 Speaker 06: If nothing else, then enforcement.

02:31:56 Speaker 06: That's where we we try to get the police services on. into this process, they're very busy.

02:32:04 Speaker 06: It's hard for them to commit to that.

02:32:06 Speaker 06: That's another reason why the education is the first, the first step.

02:32:11 Speaker 06: And enforcement also tends to have a very like periodic, localized effect.

02:32:17 Speaker 06: It's effective when there's a police car sitting there.

02:32:21 Speaker 06: It's not effective when there isn't.

02:32:23 Speaker 06: And then, so engineering is the last, the last step.

02:32:28 Speaker 06: That's if the. road standards and geometry can be changed in some way to be able to promote that concept of it's too uncomfortable to drive faster,

02:32:44 Speaker 06: then those are the those are the techniques that we would use first over actually implementing things like speed bumps.

02:32:55 Speaker 06: Speed bumps is a misnomer.

02:32:58 Speaker 06: No more speed bumps should never be used on a road. They're for parking lots.

02:33:01 Speaker 06: But if we did implement some kind of vertical deflection, it would be like a speed hump or speed table that are still uncomfortable to drive over.

02:33:10 Speaker 06: But at least our plows and stuff can drive over them too.

02:33:16 Speaker 06: The problem with those is we try not to implement them unless it's a new project like what we were doing with Fourth Avenue West because it it compromises the drainage pattern on the road,

02:33:29 Speaker 06: so they're hard to retrofit.

02:33:30 Speaker 06: There's all kinds of other techniques that you can use.

02:33:36 Speaker 06: It's kind of all outlined in that policy.

02:33:39 Speaker 06: I wouldn't call it bedtime reading, but you might want to read it with a cup of coffee. Okay, thank you. And any further questions?

02:33:52 Speaker 05: Not seeing any, so we are through discussion of additional. business.

02:33:56 Speaker 05: Notice is a motion, Councillor Merton. Through you, Chair.

02:34:00 Speaker 02: I hereby give notice of motion that I will be bringing forward to the next Operations Committee a request that staff provide an update relating to the concerns and suggestions provided by citizens as a result

02:34:12 Speaker 02: of a recent pedestrian accident involving a four-year-old child. Thank you.

02:34:19 Speaker 29: And I've got a second here, Councillor Farmer. Okay. All right.

02:34:24 Speaker 29: That's noted, and we'll speak to that at the June meeting.

02:34:28 Speaker 29: Item fourteen is adjourned at eight o' four. We are adjourned. Thank you, everyone.