Owen Sound Committee - Service Review Implementation Ad Hoc Meeting Transcript — July 9, 2025

00:00:40 Speaker 01: We'll call it to order.

00:00:42 Speaker 01: Is there any additional business?

00:00:45 Speaker 01: Seeing none in every direction.

00:00:47 Speaker 01: Confirmation of interest.

00:00:51 Speaker 01: Seeing none.

00:00:53 Speaker 01: Confirmation of minutes from April ninth, twenty twenty-five.

00:00:56 Speaker 01: Councillor Capcuso.

00:00:58 Speaker 01: Councillor Capkey, I'll move acceptance of the minutes.

00:01:02 Speaker 01: All in favour?

00:01:04 Speaker 01: That's carried.

00:01:06 Speaker 01: We have no deputations.

00:01:07 Speaker 01: We have no public for public forum.

00:01:11 Speaker 01: We have no correspondence items.

00:01:13 Speaker 01: So that brings us to eight A, which is the report on fleet strategy.

00:01:28 Speaker 01: Morning, Mayor and Council.

00:01:29 Speaker 01: How are you guys today?

00:01:31 Speaker 02: I don't do this very often, so you have to work with me.

00:01:33 Speaker 02: I haven't done a report to this like this for a number of years.

00:01:35 Speaker 02: I want to thank Chief Eagleson and Tim for their support of me taking on the task of being a bit of a fleet lead role.

00:01:43 Speaker 02: If you would have asked me a few months ago if Greg Nickel was going to be reading books on fleet and listening to podcasts while he runs about fleet,

00:01:49 Speaker 02: I probably would have answered no. But actually, they're surprisingly entertaining and pretty good.

00:01:53 Speaker 02: So if you have the opportunity to listen to fleet management, podcasts are pretty good.

00:01:57 Speaker 02: The first one reporting on talk today is CR twenty five zero six nine, and it's just an update of where we are, where we've been, and from the last meeting.

00:02:07 Speaker 02: I want to say was in October.

00:02:10 Speaker 02: Some of the highlights are twenty three of the thirty two recommendations in the strategy have been acted upon or have been completed since October.

00:02:17 Speaker 02: So we're moving quite well with the support of staff throughout the corporation has been really good.

00:02:25 Speaker 02: We have a new vehicle share system that's been implemented at City Hall with great results and really good financial results and some great tweaking by the staff that are using that programmemememe.

00:02:34 Speaker 02: As part of the fleet service review project list, draft recommendations were brought forward, and thirty-two of those recommendations in the city fleet recommendations were brought forward and talked about efficiency, safer staff use,

00:02:50 Speaker 02: and more cost-effective to operate.

00:02:53 Speaker 02: So, some of the updates of those 23 of the 32 recommendations that have been completed.

00:02:59 Speaker 02: The electric cones at City Hall are now in a share programmemememe.

00:03:02 Speaker 02: They're bookable through staff's Outlook, and they're being very effectively used since the inception in late April, which was done very quickly.

00:03:11 Speaker 02: And I really want to thank all staff for working so promptly to get that implemented, including our friends at IT.

00:03:17 Speaker 02: We've seen almost virtually erase or.

00:03:18 Speaker 02: All the mileage claims have been erased from City Hall staff.

00:03:24 Speaker 02: So, if this continues on, there's a table at the back of the report that shows significant cost savings and really utilising those vehicles a lot better.

00:03:33 Speaker 02: And it's making more efficient use of staff time, where we're not having to put mileage claims in and submitting a secondary piece of paper for a vehicle that's readily available.

00:03:43 Speaker 02: We are starting to share some vehicles between departments, which is which is we're going to see decrease in rental costs.

00:03:48 Speaker 02: The fleet manager, sort of the lead mechanic, Joe Bumstead, he went down and took a course on fleet management and fleet lead from the Ontario Good Roads Association in April.

00:03:58 Speaker 02: So that's great for us.

00:04:00 Speaker 02: And we've added 19 more AVLs or automatic vehicle locators into our city fleet, including lawnmowers and tractors and things like that.

00:04:07 Speaker 02: So we're really going to be able to look at the utilization of those over the next couple of years and go, okay, are they being used correctly?

00:04:12 Speaker 02: Are we getting grass cutting?

00:04:14 Speaker 02: How long it takes to cut a circuit of grass in the community?

00:04:17 Speaker 02: So we'll be able to really work on the budget for that and for the departments in the community.

00:04:22 Speaker 02: So there were some questions asked at the October ninth service review ad hoc committee, and I wanted to kind of answer those.

00:04:30 Speaker 02: One of the questions was staff use of vehicles parked at their home.

00:04:33 Speaker 02: We've had a retirement since that meeting, and now you're seeing a significant reduction in vehicles parked at City staff that are their vehicles or kind of eyed as their vehicles.

00:04:43 Speaker 02: You still are going to see some vehicles go home with staff.

00:04:46 Speaker 02: They're on call.

00:04:47 Speaker 02: They need to come back.

00:04:48 Speaker 02: We do have a policy that doesn't permit staff to take a passenger.

00:04:52 Speaker 02: So, let's say I'm a parent and I'm on a call, and I still have to go to the Ball Diamond with my child, or go to the rink with my child.

00:04:59 Speaker 02: I can't take a City vehicle home and drive it back to town with my child in it.

00:05:03 Speaker 02: So, sometimes we're seeing a mileage claim still involved through that because if I need as an employee, I got to come back to work, but my vehicle is at the office.

00:05:13 Speaker 02: I can't use that vehicle to take my child to the rink.

00:05:15 Speaker 02: I can't use it for personal use, so that's where you're still seeing some mileage claims come in because of our current policy.

00:05:21 Speaker 02: Point number two or question number two was about mileage versus giving staff a vehicle, and I say we've noted a significant decrease in mileage claims just because of the Kona car share replacement cycle length.

00:05:35 Speaker 02: We're going to talk about that a little bit in the next report, but it can depending on the mileage and the use of the vehicle.

00:05:41 Speaker 02: We've got all kinds of different vehicles with all kinds of different mileages on them, and as a result, the next report is going to make a recommendation further look at a capital lease programmemememe.

00:05:51 Speaker 02: If we look at our current schedule of how we're buying vehicles or how we have in the past, we kind of did a seven-year replacement for light-duty trucks,

00:05:58 Speaker 02: like your F one hundred and fifty s, that kind of thing, and other trucks and other pieces of equipment had different lengths of use in their careers here for the City.

00:06:06 Speaker 02: Speaking with the County, they use a very similar timeline.

00:06:08 Speaker 02: Their data shows that around seven to ten years, again, is when they're replacing their vehicles, and they have.

00:06:15 Speaker 02: We haven't replaced a vehicle since two thousand and twenty-two.

00:06:19 Speaker 02: Our newest pickup truck in our fleet is a two thousand and twenty-two, and so we need to we need to start to move on this relatively quickly, as as we see in the report,

00:06:26 Speaker 02: and I could show you the clear data that shows the vehicles over eight years, our vehicles over eight years old,

00:06:31 Speaker 02: and we have a number of them in the fleet that are costing almost one hundred percent more to maintain.

00:06:35 Speaker 02: Like it's dramatic when you go from seven years to eight years, our vehicles seven years and less versus our seven years or eight years and higher, it's an incredible difference in repairs.

00:06:45 Speaker 02: And when you talk and we look at car repairs and you look at car replacements, that eight year line is significant.

00:06:52 Speaker 02: When the committee asked about the plan for monitoring or combined fuel or alternative fuel, myself and the City mechanics Joe and Jack were watching the industry, watching what's going on,

00:07:01 Speaker 02: and there's all kinds of political aspects of how vehicles will be fueled in the future, and that's not the City won't sound that's on a federal level.

00:07:10 Speaker 02: One of the questions was asked about fleet manager hiring costs.

00:07:13 Speaker 02: That was in the recommendations.

00:07:14 Speaker 02: The thirty-two recommendations put forth.

00:07:16 Speaker 02: It was assigned to current staff, so I'm putting a bit of my staff time in it.

00:07:20 Speaker 02: There's other staff that are assisting me with the plan moving forward, including Joe.

00:07:24 Speaker 02: And Joe has been really an effective helper, but Public Works to kind of educate me on the equipment and what we need and how we need to get it.

00:07:32 Speaker 02: Question number six in that report was talked about fleet creep and lifespan of vehicle, when to replace, when to not, and I kind of.

00:07:37 Speaker 02: talked about that in the answer number three.

00:07:39 Speaker 02: That we're looking at utilization.

00:07:42 Speaker 02: We're starting to see good utilization through the AVLs.

00:07:44 Speaker 02: It's a very unique dashboard as to what we can see, where the cars are, how they're being used, and we're starting to use that data very effectively.

00:07:52 Speaker 02: Financial implications of this report we talk about on page four.

00:07:55 Speaker 02: You can see that there was a lot of claims put forth in the last three years.

00:08:00 Speaker 02: We got twelve, sixteen, seven, almost nearly seventeen thousand dollars in mileage claims in the last three years.

00:08:06 Speaker 02: So far in twenty twenty-five, since we've started the car share programmemememe, that is, I think there's been one claim for the way that works.

00:08:14 Speaker 02: So that's report number one.

00:08:16 Speaker 02: Any questions on kind of the update as to where we are in the fleet?

00:08:24 Speaker 02: Thanks.

00:08:26 Speaker 02: When I was reading through it, and you talk about the seven to eight year and the additional expense that is occurring with those vehicles, I just wonder.

00:08:33 Speaker 03: Those vehicles, I just wondered, could you walk me through a little bit of the work plan for the mechanics?

00:08:39 Speaker 03: Because those early years of vehicles, if there's any large issues, they would be warranty.

00:08:47 Speaker 03: So I just wonder, where do they expend a lot of their time?

00:08:52 Speaker 03: You know, pickup truck versus heavy equipment.

00:08:56 Speaker 03: What constitutes maintenance versus repair?

00:08:58 Speaker 03: Because we don't actually realize significant.

00:09:03 Speaker 03: Repairs then until beyond the five-year or beyond your typical warranty periods, but in this case, we would unlikely be going over the mileage component of a warranty.

00:09:19 Speaker 03: It would more likely be years.

00:09:22 Speaker 03: So, just wondered if you could expand on that a little bit for me.

00:09:27 Speaker 03: Are they 75% heavy equipment, 80%?

00:09:31 Speaker 03: Heavy equipment.

00:09:32 Speaker 03: Like, what does it look like up there?

00:09:38 Speaker 02: Above.

00:09:39 Speaker 02: Okay, all right.

00:09:40 Speaker 02: I can't clearly answer that question for you, Councillor.

00:09:43 Speaker 02: I don't know the exact data on it.

00:09:46 Speaker 02: If you talk to Joe and Jack, they don't have great facilities up there for small vehicle repairs, changing tires, that kind of stuff.

00:09:54 Speaker 02: Their garage is really set up for heavy equipment.

00:09:56 Speaker 02: They'd like to do a lot more PMs on our heavy equipment to maintain the life of the existing fleet.

00:10:02 Speaker 02: I don't know the exact hours they're putting in.

00:10:04 Speaker 02: That'll be something I can look into and report back for sure.

00:10:13 Speaker 04: Yeah.

00:10:13 Speaker 04: Need to pass a motion for the recommendation.

00:10:21 Speaker 05: Thank you.

00:10:22 Speaker 05: I'm happy to move the recommendation contained in the report.

00:10:26 Speaker 06: All in favour.

00:10:27 Speaker 06: That is carried.

00:10:29 Speaker 06: Good.

00:10:30 Speaker 06: So I think you've got the next one too.

00:10:38 Speaker 02: Yep.

00:10:38 Speaker 02: Usurped every time.

00:10:39 Speaker 02: All right.

00:10:40 Speaker 02: Okay.

00:10:44 Speaker 02: Next report is OP-25-026, and it's a fleet replacement update, and kind of very much works together with the previous report.

00:10:53 Speaker 02: What we're looking for is a recommendation for a replacement.

00:10:55 Speaker 02: Recommendation for a report to Council about possible capital lease programmemememe.

00:11:00 Speaker 02: Some of the highlights in this report: records indicate that vehicles having more than seven years in age are significantly more expensive to maintain, and the lifespan coincides with the replacement schedule.

00:11:15 Speaker 02: When we look at our vehicles and we're doing a detailed look at those as to how we can share them better, how we can use those vehicles better through utilization,

00:11:24 Speaker 02: how staff can alter their daily schedules through our AVL data, and we can say, "Hey, you know, if you adjust to this, and we can move that to there,

00:11:31 Speaker 02: and that kind of frees that vehicle up for a couple more hours somewhere else."

00:11:34 Speaker 02: That's a good thing.

00:11:35 Speaker 02: And we're also looking at piloting a couple of electric vehicles within the fleet.

00:11:40 Speaker 02: I shouldn't say that: additional electric vehicles in the Public Works fleet, so we can kind of test it out, see how it works, see how they could be effective.

00:11:50 Speaker 02: So we look at the Service Review Project, One-D-One.

00:11:55 Speaker 02: There were 32 recommendations made, like I mentioned before, and they were aimed to make vehicles and equipment more safer, more cost-effective, and more efficient for the City.

00:12:04 Speaker 02: We have a lot of different vehicles in the City, 140 plus, which could be from street sweepers to snow plows to pickup trucks, lawn mowers, that kind of thing.

00:12:13 Speaker 02: And we have an effective capital reserve plan over the ten years as to when we're replacing those vehicles and how they'll be replaced, and that's all been really well thought out,

00:12:21 Speaker 02: and how we could work and replace those vehicles.

00:12:25 Speaker 02: Like I say, we've added up to 57 vehicles now; we're tracking the data on those vehicles so we're going to be able to see the utilization, see how they're used,

00:12:32 Speaker 02: and which ones are ones we maybe have to increase, maybe we can move them around and share them.

00:12:39 Speaker 02: So we look at our existing fleet.

00:12:41 Speaker 02: The plan does propose a seven-year replacement schedule for light trucks and passenger trucks.

00:12:45 Speaker 02: A number of our trucks have been kept in duty past that; we've got some 2011s,

00:12:48 Speaker 02: some 2012s that are still in service today that are costing us a lot of money on expenses because they're still being heavily used by our Parks Department and our Works Department, and they're tired trucks.

00:13:00 Speaker 02: The critical tipping point for those vehicles, for looks like for annual repairs, is like I mentioned earlier: vehicles that are seven years old had, on average, around $2,100 in repairs.

00:13:08 Speaker 02: Vehicles over that had $5,800 in repairs, and those include things like air conditioning, brakes, major electrical—that's significantly more than just your regular maintenance, oil changes, brakes, and tires.

00:13:21 Speaker 02: We currently have three electric sedans in the fleet.

00:13:24 Speaker 02: Looking to add through a potential leasing programmemememe two more pickup trucks that would be used within the Works Department and the Water Department to try them out, see how they would work,

00:13:35 Speaker 02: see how staff like them, see how the charging works, see what we need to do to have effective charging facilities on site and on our buildings.

00:13:43 Speaker 02: Now, we are currently researching what those are going to cost and where the ideal location for staff to park those vehicles so they could be charged over time.

00:13:53 Speaker 02: There are a number of other communities across the province and even locally that are doing a fleet management leasing programmemememe through a third source,

00:14:02 Speaker 02: and they look after a lot of things on behalf of the community.

00:14:05 Speaker 02: They look after their procurement, they look after sales, they do even down to right down to a maintenance programmemememe, and they then work with us,

00:14:13 Speaker 02: tell us when that vehicle is at its highest point for resale, and there's options there for us to take a longer look at.

00:14:19 Speaker 02: Maybe that's the best way to utilise our tax dollar for fleet management.

00:14:23 Speaker 02: And you can see that just as kind of an example: me, for the Town of Blue Mountain, South Bruce Peninsula, Orangeville,

00:14:31 Speaker 02: and a number of other municipalities across the province have entered into agreements with companies that do look after a capital lease programmemememe.

00:14:39 Speaker 02: The other thing I found as I started looking into the vehicles that we're using throughout the Corporation to make staff efficient: we've been renting vehicles, and renting vehicles is pretty expensive.

00:14:49 Speaker 02: When you look at a regular pickup truck, an F-150 or similar, would probably cost the City somewhere around hypothetically, ballpark around $800 a month to operate over six or over five or seven years.

00:15:02 Speaker 02: Right now, we're renting it for $1,500 a month.

00:15:04 Speaker 02: So there's some cost savings to be made by working with this and getting the right size vehicles and adding potentially adding to our fleet.

00:15:12 Speaker 02: I know I talked in the last report about fleet creep, and we've kind of been doing that, and through operating budgets.

00:15:17 Speaker 02: So you can see that in the list on page four.

00:15:20 Speaker 02: There's a couple of vehicles that we've been renting for a long time, and one we rented for winter maintenance last year was a 3500 HD pickup truck.

00:15:29 Speaker 02: Strangely enough, when we rent, when we look at what we were doing, we were renting one truck for seven months, sending it back, and we're renting another truck for five months, and they weren't overlapping.

00:15:39 Speaker 02: So we were renting a truck almost for 12 months a year, which looks about to be about $40,000 over that year.

00:15:45 Speaker 02: So, if we can get that truck into our fleet, I happen to see one in another community, and it would be two years we'd own the truck if we were to purchase the truck outright,

00:15:54 Speaker 02: and it would fit and work for us.

00:15:56 Speaker 02: There's another truck that's being proposed, or we'd like to see added through our Works, our Water Department.

00:16:01 Speaker 02: It's a specialized truck, but we are currently renting a truck that's doing some of that task at this point.

00:16:07 Speaker 02: So, when we look at the financial implications of maybe going towards a lease programmemememe or looking towards long-term leasing, we would maybe see very similar costings.

00:16:19 Speaker 02: Very: when I say very similar costings, when we factor down to buying rather than renting, and there's some staff savings on procurement and selling.

00:16:28 Speaker 02: Well, once we would work with that company or a company like that, they would look after the procurement, they would look after the sales.

00:16:33 Speaker 02: So we wouldn't be issuing tenders, we wouldn't be issuing sales, and it's kind of a very smooth transition.

00:16:39 Speaker 02: Vehicles come in, vehicles come out, and vehicles are more efficient.

00:16:44 Speaker 02: They're safer.

00:16:45 Speaker 02: They've got newer cameras, and staff are pretty excited because they're driving a newer vehicle rather than something we're doing a lot of maintenance on.

00:16:54 Speaker 02: So, what I would ask for in this report is that staff says, okay, the Committee would approve the Fleet Team,

00:17:04 Speaker 02: and I call the Fleet Team would be the people that are listed in the report,

00:17:08 Speaker 02: and we would meet with leasing programmemememes and report back to Council over the next couple of weeks or month as to what the direction should be.

00:17:19 Speaker 02: Some of our timelines: the winter maintenance pickup truck does need to be back in the lineup by October, and we want to make sure that it's the most cost-effective truck coming back.

00:17:27 Speaker 02: It's either leased by us or owned by us, and I do not recommend us renting the truck in November.

00:17:36 Speaker 02: Marion, thank you.

00:17:38 Speaker 05: Through you to Greg, the cost regarding painting and identifying with the logos, etc., is that over and above, of course, the cost of the lease or the rental?

00:17:53 Speaker 02: It's all built into the pricing.

00:17:56 Speaker 02: We can pick a Cadillac model and we can have them do everything, or we can do some of the stuff ourselves.

00:18:00 Speaker 02: We'll have the ability to pick what's on the vehicles, how they're labelled, how they're dressed, how their signage, right down to lights and box liners and that kind of stuff.

00:18:09 Speaker 02: Because we're kind of remote from some of the suppliers of leased vehicles, we could still have the stickers be added by our in-house mechanic.

00:18:21 Speaker 07: Melanie, I'm happy to move the recommendation of the report.

00:18:27 Speaker 07: My only question is, how do we get to a place where we're renting a vehicle and it's costing forty thousand dollars, and no one's picked up on this.

00:18:36 Speaker 07: That we should have done something differently before.

00:18:42 Speaker 02: I can't answer the second party question, Councilmember Roll, but I can say that hey, I want to.

00:18:46 Speaker 02: We want to get this identified.

00:18:48 Speaker 02: We've identified the issue, and we want to stop it.

00:18:50 Speaker 02: So we're spending money more effectively.

00:18:52 Speaker 02: We did need vehicles to move staff around.

00:18:55 Speaker 02: If you talk to the guys at Parks Department, sorry, the Works Department, they might have been driving a side-by-side or waiting or getting picked up and dropped off,

00:19:01 Speaker 02: and that wasn't great use of staff time because we were shovelling basically our self-taxi system within our vehicles.

00:19:10 Speaker 06: Did you say 141.40 vehicles in the fleet?

00:19:19 Speaker 02: When you think about lawnmowers, all that kind of thing, exactly right, everybody.

00:19:23 Speaker 02: Yeah, approximately 140 vehicles in the fleet.

00:19:27 Speaker 02: Well, okay, I'll call the question.

00:19:28 Speaker 02: All in favour?

00:19:29 Speaker 02: That's carried.

00:19:30 Speaker 02: Thank you very much.

00:19:32 Speaker 02: Hope that was fun.

00:19:34 Speaker 02: Yeah, awesome.

00:19:34 Speaker 02: Oh, I got to push a button.

00:19:46 Speaker 01: Eight C Human Resources Specialist, comprehensive onboarding programmemememe.

00:20:02 Speaker 08: Through you, Mayor Boddy, this report and presentation are in regards to a final update on Service Route Project One-A-One, the Comprehensive Onboarding Programmemememe.

00:20:12 Speaker 08: The objectives of this programmemememe are designed to increase employee engagement, accelerate productivity, and reduce turnover through a structured onboarding process.

00:20:22 Speaker 08: It aims to support hiring managers and new employees from recruitment through their first year by streamlining all of our supports for everyone in different departments.

00:20:33 Speaker 08: It just makes things a little bit easier across the organisation.

00:20:38 Speaker 08: The project steps completed to this point.

00:20:40 Speaker 08: We've recently begun piloting this programmemememe with our recent job postings.

00:20:47 Speaker 08: During the Communications Advisor posting, we piloted some of the forms and through our recently closed Customer Service Facilitator contract posting.

00:20:58 Speaker 08: We're piloting the entire toolkit.

00:21:01 Speaker 08: We've received feedback so far and have adjusted accordingly, and will continue to do so as we pilot and implement the entire process.

00:21:11 Speaker 08: The initiative will continue to get rolled out for any future vacancies as well.

00:21:18 Speaker 08: The onboarding team was instrumental in getting this project off the ground and providing feedback throughout the process, and getting us to the point that we're at.

00:21:30 Speaker 08: Some key onboarding documents that we created: We created a bunch of new forms and templates for hiring managers and employees to assist through this process and make everything more streamlined across the organisation.

00:21:46 Speaker 08: And they'll all be available to staff through Sound.

00:21:49 Speaker 08: So we have an Employee Essentials portal in Sound, and there'll be a section in there for a toolkit for employees and a toolkit for managers,

00:21:57 Speaker 08: where it links all of the documents in SharePoint that they can easily access at any time.

00:22:03 Speaker 08: It'll also get sent via email the first time that they use it.

00:22:06 Speaker 08: But we wanted to make it easy; if they forgot where something was, they can easily go into our Employee Essentials portal and find it all there.

00:22:16 Speaker 08: One of the main updates was the Request to Hire form.

00:22:19 Speaker 08: We've higher form—we've updated it to include a new section for rationale for filling and the vacancy and the impact if it's not filled and any alternatives that have been considered as we look for efficiencies

00:22:35 Speaker 08: across the organisation.

00:22:37 Speaker 08: The information that's needed for the job posting itself will be included in Appendix A, so it doesn't have to be a back and forth via email to get all of that information from hiring managers.

00:22:47 Speaker 08: And a job aid for leaders was created in filling out this new form to make sure they're providing all of the details that are needed, especially for this rationale piece as we move forward.

00:22:59 Speaker 08: As I said, centralizing the information, it's all going to be on Sound and saved in SharePoint.

00:23:05 Speaker 08: That's easy to access for everyone.

00:23:07 Speaker 08: Provides all of the forms and checklists in one document, so it links everything within that toolkit.

00:23:14 Speaker 08: So it's easy to keep in track and know where they are in the checklist as we work through the whole onboarding process.

00:23:21 Speaker 08: Citation Canada provides the training and documentation, and we recently implemented Pixme, which is an applicant tracking programmemememe.

00:23:31 Speaker 08: So far, I've really enjoyed it.

00:23:33 Speaker 08: It's been wonderful.

00:23:35 Speaker 08: It integrates directly into our website, and they just have a new feature that now integrates it into Indeed and the Job Bank, so it'll automatically push out our job postings to those major job boards,

00:23:49 Speaker 08: so that we don't have to manually do it, or manually sort all applications into job folders.

00:23:55 Speaker 08: So it's saving a lot of that manual task time during the recruitment process.

00:24:01 Speaker 08: That's going to decrease the time to fill a vacancy.

00:24:07 Speaker 08: Next steps: We're continuing to pilot this.

00:24:10 Speaker 08: Training for managers will be one-on-one as they work through it for the first time, and I'll also be conducting two one-hour training sessions for managers, so that whichever one they're available to attend,

00:24:23 Speaker 08: they get a bit of an overview for the next time that they're going to have to hire for this.

00:24:28 Speaker 08: We'll conduct yearly reviews for efficiencies and make sure we're constantly updating the toolkit as we work through this and new processes throughout the organisation happen.

00:24:46 Speaker 08: And does anybody have any questions?

00:24:50 Speaker 08: Go ahead.

00:24:51 Speaker 05: Thank you, Your Worship.

00:24:52 Speaker 05: Probably a little bit of back and forth on our questioning, so we'll button on, button off, kind of thing.

00:24:59 Speaker 05: First of all, is this similar to an AI review of applications?

00:25:06 Speaker 08: Pixme, yes, it does use AI to review applications.

00:25:11 Speaker 08: They've worked with government agencies to ensure that it's a non-biased AI that is screening the application.

00:25:20 Speaker 08: So what it does is they have to set up; every applicant has to set up their own portal, basically, and they input their resume into it.

00:25:32 Speaker 08: Their AI pulls out the relevant information from their resume and creates a pixelated resume that shows everything that we would like to see, and then it also allows us to filter their application for education,

00:25:47 Speaker 08: experience, that type of thing, to see their fit for the role itself.

00:25:53 Speaker 05: So, if the application requires a certain level of education, how does it capture the dynamic individuals who may have ten years' experience and they just get missed because they don't have that level of education?

00:26:09 Speaker 08: So it doesn't filter for us.

00:26:11 Speaker 08: We filter after the fact.

00:26:13 Speaker 08: So it'll show the entire application in its entirety for us, and then we can choose if we would like to filter it based on education or experience.

00:26:21 Speaker 08: So it still allows us to see all the dynamic components of someone's resume.

00:26:26 Speaker 08: They're allowed to submit additional files like a cover letter or their original resume as well.

00:26:32 Speaker 08: So we can see some of those soft skills that are typically harder to identify in just education or experience alone.

00:26:41 Speaker 05: And also, you said it was on SharePoint for staff.

00:26:45 Speaker 05: How do you ensure confidentiality when it's on SharePoint?

00:26:49 Speaker 05: All of staff can see.

00:26:53 Speaker 08: So the toolkit itself that helps managers through the hiring process, which is just the templates and the forms, that's what's available on SharePoint.

00:27:02 Speaker 08: The Pixme applications themselves are only available to select hiring managers for that role.

00:27:09 Speaker 08: So I'm able to go in as an admin, select hiring managers for each role, and they can only see the applications that they've received for their role itself.

00:27:20 Speaker 08: Okay.

00:27:20 Speaker 05: And lastly, it's four thousand eight hundred a year.

00:27:25 Speaker 05: Do we do enough hiring to warrant four thousand eight hundred a year?

00:27:32 Speaker 05: Yes.

00:27:33 Speaker 08: We typically do between 45 to 60 postings per year, and through that we receive anywhere from 40 to 300 resumes.

00:27:47 Speaker 08: The time it takes alone just to screen those resumes, staff hours would account for that $4,800.

00:28:03 Speaker 03: And I think you answered the question pretty well with your reference to Indeed and LinkedIn, because that was one of my foremost questions: it sounds like a plug-in,

00:28:14 Speaker 03: and I just wanted to ensure that we're not like, what are the channels you're using now,

00:28:22 Speaker 03: and that we weren't just directing everything through Pixme and losing some of those pathways that are opportunities for people currently, and that we maintain that.

00:28:35 Speaker 03: But as long as it's a plug-in, you're just saying it's still engaging with LinkedIn and Indeed or whatever ones out there.

00:28:43 Speaker 03: And my question is also to just be sure that there's a personalized approach to this.

00:28:54 Speaker 03: So on the website, there's some people would go to the City website looking for job opportunities; they click that button.

00:29:04 Speaker 03: There's not an obstacle in place for some people who might not be as technically savvy as many more youthful individuals.

00:29:14 Speaker 03: I was on the website for Pixme, and it's a very youthful company, literally just a year old.

00:29:20 Speaker 03: These are very savvy individuals, but there are individuals that need opportunities to be able to engage, and technology might not be their first mode of expertise or area of expertise.

00:29:35 Speaker 03: So, just if you could just comfort me that that's not lost in the process.

00:29:41 Speaker 03: Thanks, Bethany.

00:29:43 Speaker 08: Yes.

00:29:43 Speaker 08: So, through our careers page, we also have the ability to contact us.

00:29:47 Speaker 08: So, we still have our job postings email address.

00:29:50 Speaker 08: That if somebody is having issues with Pixme or doesn't have the savvy technology skill to complete it,

00:29:58 Speaker 08: we have had quite a few people try from our own staff to try and complete an application just to see how easy it is to do, and it does.

00:30:07 Speaker 08: We haven't seen any roadblocks so far.

00:30:10 Speaker 08: However, we still always have people dropping off resumes at the front counter that we still will consider in the application process for a job posting.

00:30:20 Speaker 08: That if somebody doesn't have a computer or would prefer to drop off a physical resume, they're still able to do that as well.

00:30:30 Speaker 08: Go ahead.

00:30:31 Speaker 07: Thank you.

00:30:32 Speaker 07: Do are there ever any exceptions to the rules within your hiring process?

00:30:37 Speaker 07: And I'm thinking of an individual that I know who was looking for a job, and I said, "Hey, you know, the City has a posting, and as it turns out,

00:30:46 Speaker 07: he doesn't have his high school diploma, and it says you have to have your high school diploma.

00:30:52 Speaker 07: He's an able-bodied forty-year-old male who could easily pick up a shovel and do the work that needed to be done, but because that box isn't checked, would he be excluded automatically?"

00:31:02 Speaker 08: Not necessarily.

00:31:03 Speaker 08: We look at all applications and experience.

00:31:06 Speaker 08: We have started to update some of those fields.

00:31:08 Speaker 08: We used to have it that you needed to have a G licence for every application.

00:31:12 Speaker 08: However, we've taken that out of most as we've found that most don't actually require that.

00:31:18 Speaker 08: There are a few positions that require a G licence, or as you said, a high school diploma.

00:31:25 Speaker 08: So we've started to adjust some of those fields, and as we look moving forward on that Request to Hire form, about what is actually necessary for this role,

00:31:34 Speaker 08: so that we're not excluding anybody from the potential opportunity moving forward.

00:31:44 Speaker 09: And I will move that in consideration staff report CR 2005-078, respecting Series Review Project 1A1.

00:31:50 Speaker 09: Comprehensive Onboarding Programmemememe Service Review Implementation, and our committee recommends City Council receive the report for information purposes.

00:31:58 Speaker 06: Call the question.

00:31:59 Speaker 06: All in favour?

00:32:02 Speaker 06: Oh, did you have another question?

00:32:03 Speaker 06: Okay, sorry.

00:32:04 Speaker 06: Yeah, so that was carried.

00:32:05 Speaker 06: Thank you.

00:32:09 Speaker 06: Hmm.

00:32:10 Speaker 06: Four D Report from the City Manager update and Engineering and Public Works structure review.

00:32:18 Speaker 10: Thank you, Mayor, and committee, and Christina.

00:32:21 Speaker 10: Thanks.

00:32:22 Speaker 10: I'll ask you.

00:32:22 Speaker 10: I'll just do a slide comment, and then I'll, if you'll advance slides for me.

00:32:27 Speaker 10: So, yeah, we're providing an update this morning on the Public Works and Parks Service Review Project, and I really wanted to note it's been a group effort to get to this point.

00:32:37 Speaker 10: The directors of Public Works and Community Services and their managers have all met.

00:32:46 Speaker 10: We've met numerous times.

00:32:48 Speaker 10: Our manager of human resources has been involved also, and so we're really, I think, at a good point to present this update today to you.

00:32:57 Speaker 10: And this project update is beyond just the confines of One A Three and the original request and looking at the amalgamation because we've had a number of other elements with Public Works happening.

00:33:13 Speaker 10: We've had some key retirements recently.

00:33:17 Speaker 10: We're looking at the organisation of Public Works in general.

00:33:20 Speaker 10: So this presentation and this report sort of goes beyond the scope of just the amalgamation aspect because you can't just look at one aspect alone.

00:33:31 Speaker 10: You have to identify how it operates within the corporation.

00:33:41 Speaker 10: Slide.

00:33:41 Speaker 10: So, as a reminder of where and what Project One A Three is about, it's to find efficiencies, streamline processes, reduce duplication, maximize coordination, and support the work that's going on within the City.

00:33:54 Speaker 10: And so I'll start with the background in the slide, please.

00:33:58 Speaker 10: So prior to 2008, for context, the Public Works and Parks divisions were a consolidated unit.

00:34:04 Speaker 10: And in 2008, that work was separated.

00:34:07 Speaker 10: And it appears from everything that we can find that the division of work was based on internal factors, more so on internal factors rather than the public-facing impact of the services.

00:34:19 Speaker 10: So there were hardline divisions.

00:34:22 Speaker 10: Okay, it was a matter of here's this group, this will go this way and this will go that way, and rather than well, that impact from a public-facing perspective,

00:34:31 Speaker 10: that work is really separated into two different things.

00:34:33 Speaker 10: And over time, we found since then inconsistencies, gaps, and potential overlaps within those services, and that's really led to a lack of clarity as to whose responsibility it is to do various work,

00:34:49 Speaker 10: generally and based on what time of the year.

00:34:51 Speaker 10: So again, not necessarily complicating, but adding to the complexity is then the seasonality of work also between the two units.

00:35:00 Speaker 10: Slide.

00:35:01 Speaker 10: So in 2022, as we're all aware, MNP identified an opportunity to amalgamate the Public Works and Parks Open Spaces Division.

00:35:11 Speaker 10: However, they cautioned or had a footnote with that that indicated that doing so would create a mega department, which in itself could result in efficiencies.

00:35:22 Speaker 10: Slide, and then in June 2024, the Director of Public Works and Engineering brought an update on this project, which identified a number of opportunities for improvement.

00:35:32 Speaker 10: And since then, the directors and the people I mentioned earlier, we've met and we continued to meet to discuss the implementation of a variety of those opportunities, and again,

00:35:42 Speaker 10: the report today outlines those opportunities and potential savings.

00:35:46 Speaker 10: So we'll move into a little bit of analysis now.

00:35:49 Speaker 10: The discussions we had were centreed around whether the two divisions should actually be amalgamated, and that was really the start.

00:35:57 Speaker 10: And I think on the surface, it's like, yeah, why do we have two operating groups, myself included?

00:36:03 Speaker 10: You know, from the very beginning, would it be more efficient just to pull these two groups together?

00:36:07 Speaker 10: You have a manager, all of the equipment, everybody operating under one umbrella.

00:36:12 Speaker 10: But after a lot of deliberation, we started to look at what I'd mentioned earlier: the alignment of work and how, in 2008, the groups got separated and how it got separated.

00:36:22 Speaker 10: And then we started to really dig into the why: why are we doing this?

00:36:29 Speaker 10: We wanted to look at the efficiencies, the savings, the service levels, and look at the public-facing element of it because when it comes down to it, it's our constituents, it's the citizens,

00:36:39 Speaker 10: it's the businesses that are picking up a phone and generally calling.

00:36:41 Speaker 10: Of why isn't this grass cut here in this median?

00:36:45 Speaker 10: Well, grass cutting is mostly Parks, but Public Works handles median areas.

00:36:49 Speaker 10: So we had separated things like that just for context.

00:36:52 Speaker 10: Or a tree would get cut down, and arborist work is done in Parks, but the stump and stump grinding is all in Public Works.

00:37:00 Speaker 10: So we talk about that within the report and other places, but a tree could get cut down by the arborist team, the forestry team,

00:37:09 Speaker 10: and that stump may not be removed for more than a year.

00:37:12 Speaker 10: It could be a year and a half later.

00:37:13 Speaker 10: But you have the public looking at it.

00:37:15 Speaker 10: The tree came down like a month ago.

00:37:17 Speaker 10: Why wouldn't they have come and removed the stump already?

00:37:19 Speaker 10: So those are the type of whys we were looking into.

00:37:23 Speaker 10: As a result, we reviewed and identified tasks and activities that should be consolidated, along with the staffing and equipment resources.

00:37:32 Speaker 10: So again, it's not as simple as just let's put two teams together and everything should come out more efficient.

00:37:40 Speaker 10: Slide.

00:37:41 Speaker 10: The focus areas outlined on the slide in front of you are what we look at as sort of a first step, and we talk a lot in staff about continuous improvement.

00:37:52 Speaker 10: I know we've brought that up here at Service Review with other reports, continuous improvement.

00:37:56 Speaker 10: So, we feel as though looking at these focus areas to start with is the first phase, and then we'll look at continuous improvement as we go.

00:38:06 Speaker 10: We'll further investigate the best way to implement the consolidation, taking into account staffing and resourcing.

00:38:12 Speaker 10: Also, slide.

00:38:16 Speaker 10: Oh, you're good.

00:38:17 Speaker 10: So while the implementation plan has not been fully finalized, we anticipate that Public Works staff could be assigned to support the Parks division throughout the spring and summer each season.

00:38:28 Speaker 10: In addition, if stump removal and garbage were to all move to Parks, there would need to be staff assigned to complete this work.

00:38:35 Speaker 10: So, in addition and discussed in the 2024 report, there's an opportunity to move some seasonal staff to permanent roles.

00:38:42 Speaker 10: There are currently five staff who work in Parks during the spring and summer, and then move to winter control for the winter months.

00:38:48 Speaker 10: This will provide opportunities for advancement, something staff indicated was missing.

00:38:54 Speaker 10: Timely transitions between the seasons and a reduction in time to hire, creating efficiencies and savings from staff time, and that's a really big point I wanted to make.

00:39:04 Speaker 10: The transitional time between the seasons is huge.

00:39:07 Speaker 10: We tend to find that coming out March/April, the staffing in Parks seasonals ramps up.

00:39:13 Speaker 10: We bring on one or two each week to a heightened level, and that's from a cost-effective perspective.

00:39:19 Speaker 10: But looking at saving those dollars creates an issue because we have major winter cleanup in the Parks and stuff going on.

00:39:26 Speaker 10: So you create this backlog of work before you even can get started into the normal Park season, and then likewise going into the winter season when winter hits,

00:39:36 Speaker 10: we're ramping down the Parks and trying to bring on the winters and get those people hired and trained to move into the winter season.

00:39:44 Speaker 10: So, doing that would create, we feel as though a considerable amount of efficiencies and savings from staff time, not including the amount of retraining and hiring.

00:39:54 Speaker 10: We had the report from Bethany just a moment ago.

00:39:57 Speaker 10: We talked about how much work is involved with the hiring, the interviewing, and all of that.

00:40:04 Speaker 10: Seasonals is a massive amount of time to end up with very similar people quite often, but that amount of work effort is just incredible.

00:40:15 Speaker 10: Currently, we have five that work, as mentioned, both in Parks and return for winter control.

00:40:20 Speaker 10: Staff want to ensure that we work with the union on the best way to support the transition from temporary to permanent, and I think this model was also in the past.

00:40:29 Speaker 10: Also, we had shared positions in the past between Parks and Public Works, and I'm not fully certain with one hundred percent certainty that that went away with the separation of the two,

00:40:39 Speaker 10: or at what point in time.

00:40:41 Speaker 10: But we know that that had happened in the past.

00:40:46 Speaker 10: Slide, please.

00:40:47 Speaker 10: Looking at this alignment, we feel as though that the result results in enhanced clarity for staff and public.

00:40:55 Speaker 10: The clarity enhances trust, ensures that the City works towards its vision, as Owen Sound is where you want to live, work, and play.

00:41:04 Speaker 10: When we further look at the alignment and the next steps, so the tree-related work included, including stump removals, is recommended for 2026,

00:41:13 Speaker 10: and I just spoke to that with the development and execution of an implementation and transfer plan,

00:41:17 Speaker 10: and this will allow Public Works to complete the outstanding stump removals that are currently waiting and allow for the development of the new process.

00:41:27 Speaker 10: Public Works currently cuts grass around guardrails as needed.

00:41:31 Speaker 10: However, they don't have the equipment, and this is part of a core business of the Parks department.

00:41:35 Speaker 10: The River District has its own service levels.

00:41:37 Speaker 10: Understanding where the work best fits to complete the work necessary will provide the opportunity to assign it to the appropriate division and also ensure that there is one division that is accountable for the work.

00:41:47 Speaker 10: So, people doing things, but one accountability.

00:41:50 Speaker 10: This will be finalized later this year with the implementation, also in two thousand and twenty-six.

00:41:55 Speaker 10: Winter control also is a Service Review Project 5B-1.

00:41:58 Speaker 10: It will be forthcoming, and will include catwalk maintenance as part of that project.

00:42:02 Speaker 10: And then finally, considering road closures as part of events, which typically happen on a weekend when Parks staff are working and Public Works staff are not, is a consideration,

00:42:12 Speaker 10: and staff are contemplating how best to consolidate that work.

00:42:16 Speaker 10: The Engineer.

00:42:17 Speaker 10: The Engineering and Public Works structure, and I'm just going to touch on this lightly.

00:42:22 Speaker 10: But I should note that our Director of Public Works and Engineering and our Manager of HR will take all questions as we move forward through this.

00:42:32 Speaker 10: We laid out, or Lauren and Janet worked on this and met with myself, and they worked on three options to present to Service Review.

00:42:43 Speaker 10: And again, it's important to look at this in light of the amalgamation and the Service Review project, because it's multifaceted;

00:42:50 Speaker 10: you can't look at a restructuring or an organisational aspect and then look at amalgamation and sharing of service in a different vein.

00:43:00 Speaker 10: So, in considering the Service Review projects as well as some recent retirements, we feel as though we're in a position to adjust the current structure of the Public Works and Engineering Department.

00:43:10 Speaker 10: And while there have been plans to do so over the past couple of years, making any sort of significant changes would have impacted long-term employees and had financial implications for the City.

00:43:21 Speaker 10: The recent retirements have provided the opportunity to put into effect these changes.

00:43:27 Speaker 10: There are a number of options that are clearly laid out in the report that have an impact on the budget.

00:43:31 Speaker 10: The base option will change the Manager of Engineering to a Manager of Public Works and Engineering with a more focus on the operational aspect,

00:43:38 Speaker 10: as well as change the Engineering Administrator to a Project Coordinator to support the implementation of projects across the departments.

00:43:46 Speaker 10: The mid and ideal options include the addition of new positions, including an Engineering Services Supervisor to support the Engineering team, and a Wastewater Collection Superintendent to address new legislation related to stormwater collection.

00:43:59 Speaker 10: The ideal option includes the addition of two supervisors, as well as a Compliance Coordinator and an additional Engineering Technologist to support the funding available for additional projects.

00:44:09 Speaker 10: The rationale related to each of the roles is more clearly outlined, as I mentioned in the report.

00:44:14 Speaker 10: The mid and ideal options will be brought forward through the recommendations in the Mayor's budget, as well as will the proposal to transition five seasonal positions to permanent.

00:44:24 Speaker 10: So again, the recommendations are to bring these forward into the budget conversation, rather than Service Review approving outright new positions.

00:44:34 Speaker 10: Next steps that we're moving forward with: we'll be posting for the new role of Manager of Public Works and Engineering, and I say new role—that's the redefined role, so that's not a new FTE.

00:44:45 Speaker 10: But we need to move on that quickly.

00:44:47 Speaker 10: We'll be posting for the Superintendent of Public Works, which is also a vacancy right now and a very important role to get filled, whether the other positions are added or not.

00:44:58 Speaker 10: Those two items will be moving forward with.

00:45:01 Speaker 10: We'll finalize Project Coordinator job description and posting, and develop with the union a process to transfer staff between Public Works and Parks.

00:45:09 Speaker 10: So again, the union have been very much at the discussion table.

00:45:15 Speaker 10: We feel as though we have a great partnership with the union members now, and a good open discussion on how they would like to move forward.

00:45:22 Speaker 10: They're a key element in any sort of discussions with our operational staff moving forward.

00:45:30 Speaker 10: From a communications perspective, Council has asked quite often, how have these discussions happened?

00:45:36 Speaker 10: Have they been closed?

00:45:37 Speaker 10: And just senior leadership, or have we involved frontline folks to those discussions?

00:45:42 Speaker 10: And I'd like to say that our Manager of HR and our directors, and the managers within the departments and supervisors, superintendents of all,

00:45:52 Speaker 10: done a good job working directly with frontline staff on the development of this report.

00:45:59 Speaker 10: Feedback has been sought as we move forward to ensure what is being proposed is achievable, and ultimately will make the difference we want through Service Review.

00:46:08 Speaker 10: We have and will continue to communicate as we move through the implementation to those who may be affected, and we'll ensure that messages are clear and to continue to build trust with our frontline staff.

00:46:19 Speaker 10: And that's the end of the presentation.

00:46:21 Speaker 10: And so we'll open it up to questions and to the team.

00:46:34 Speaker 10: Thank you.

00:46:36 Speaker 05: Question to HR: Respecting the postings, can you explain to me the internal and external timelines of postings, and if they are going to be posted internally?

00:46:51 Speaker 11: Through you, Mr. Chair, we do post.

00:46:55 Speaker 11: We post every single job internally, and in some cases, we will also post concurrently externally to see what we get.

00:47:04 Speaker 11: It is important that if there are any internal candidates, I prefer that they go through the interview process.

00:47:11 Speaker 11: But if we don't do that for whatever reason, we actually sit down with them to have a discussion about this is where you want to go, this is what you want to do.

00:47:20 Speaker 11: Here's the things that you don't have, and here let's set a plan to help you get there so you're ready the next time.

00:47:33 Speaker 03: I've got some highlighted just for points of clarification before speaking to other items later.

00:47:40 Speaker 03: So I'll just find some brackets here.

00:47:41 Speaker 03: So, question for Tim: If you could expand on a couple here, there's page five, about halfway down.

00:47:49 Speaker 03: It states adjusting some seasonal staff to permanent and assigning them to parks will decrease time in recruiting.

00:47:55 Speaker 03: Yada yada yada.

00:47:57 Speaker 03: At the end, it states currently several excellent seasonal staff who wish only to work either in parks or in public works seasonally, as they have other responsibilities in the respective off season.

00:48:09 Speaker 03: Can you expand on that?

00:48:13 Speaker 03: What does that entail?

00:48:16 Speaker 11: Through you, Mr. Chair, things like so we have one individual who actually only wants to work in the winter and through the summer has a special needs child, so they don't want to work.

00:48:29 Speaker 11: They just want those four months the child's in school, and they can cover off those needs at that point.

00:48:35 Speaker 11: They don't want to work in the summer.

00:48:37 Speaker 11: In my past lives, people there are people that own landscaping companies, and so they want to work in the winter but not in the summer, or they have something they own their own snowplowing company,

00:48:49 Speaker 11: so they want to work in the summer but not in the winter, and we do have some of those staff here.

00:48:55 Speaker 03: Okay, so this is just ensuring flexibility at your level.

00:49:00 Speaker 03: Top of next page, staff expect to see a reduction in budget dependent on the number of staff overall that are shifted between the departments and the number of seasonals that are made permanent.

00:49:14 Speaker 03: Could you expand on that?

00:49:16 Speaker 03: And what's the type of work that doesn't get done now that could be picked up in doing so?

00:49:25 Speaker 03: Through you, Mr. Chair.

00:49:27 Speaker 11: For example, so the report actually outlines an example of what we think the staff shifting could be, if we move two staff from public works to parks over the spring summer season.

00:49:42 Speaker 11: Then there's work that's not necessarily going to get done in public works.

00:49:48 Speaker 11: Through that, we haven't worked through all of the implementations, but it could be that there's less work or we have to revise how we approach things.

00:49:59 Speaker 11: A lot of what has happened, and in fact happened this year, and I can't speak to kind of prior years, but we did shift a staff member over.

00:50:08 Speaker 11: So as we start to ramp up, and we're still looking for seasonals,

00:50:13 Speaker 11: Public Works will go over and help out in certainly at the beginning of that season to make sure that we're well on the way and doing the things that need to be done.

00:50:22 Speaker 10: I should also add, and maybe Janet, you can expand on this.

00:50:27 Speaker 10: Also, when we talk about seasonals and having whether it's nine seasonals or sixteen seasonals in parks, we think that on you know, I mentioned during my presentation that we ramp up those seasonals.

00:50:40 Speaker 10: They're brought on from a cost perspective, one or two each week over the course of five or six weeks, seven weeks, eight weeks.

00:50:47 Speaker 10: However, when we talk about having sixteen seasonals, 16 seasonals, we get the notion that oh, we have 16 seasonals ready to go.

00:50:56 Speaker 10: We might interview, I don't know, 50 people for the 16 seasonals or more.

00:51:01 Speaker 10: But there are people that will take the position and not show up for their first day of work and never show up.

00:51:07 Speaker 10: So you have this expectation and this workload that is there, ready for spring cleanup, and you're like, okay, we'll have these three seasonals here today,

00:51:16 Speaker 10: and you have people that have been hired that just won't show up.

00:51:19 Speaker 10: So the notion of just focusing on the number of the seasonals sort of is a false, a little bit of a false narrative.

00:51:26 Speaker 10: When I hear from Eckhard and Pam on the amount of issues that we have in retaining seasonals or people that don't show up or people that come and they work for a week and then

00:51:35 Speaker 10: they're not with us anymore,

00:51:38 Speaker 10: the work doesn't go away.

00:51:39 Speaker 10: So again, back to: is there an opportunity with these five roles when you asked about what work isn't going to get done or isn't going to get done, or what work may not get done,

00:51:50 Speaker 10: or what work isn't getting done?

00:51:52 Speaker 10: I think it's having that level set of we know we have bodies here; those five bodies will be here.

00:52:01 Speaker 10: So when we do start to do cleanup in the spring or get ready for the winter, those people are constantly there.

00:52:07 Speaker 10: It's lost for a word.

00:52:12 Speaker 10: Anyhow, that consistency is what I'm looking for.

00:52:19 Speaker 03: Okay, because I can definitely get behind supporting going to five full-time positions.

00:52:26 Speaker 03: This is something that anecdotally has been shared for a number of years that we lose good people because of our current structure.

00:52:36 Speaker 03: So there's room for improvement.

00:52:38 Speaker 03: I just wanted to ensure that what I was comfortable with is that in the future, I might not hear that we're cutting grass more frequently at a cemetrey, for instance,

00:52:51 Speaker 03: and then have complaints come forward that we don't have staffing at the leaf and yard waste facility to do what needs to be done.

00:53:02 Speaker 03: Next question I have is bottom of page seven.

00:53:08 Speaker 03: This is referencing multi-million dollar capital projects being run off the corner of a superintendent's desk simply because they are subject matter experts for their facility.

00:53:20 Speaker 03: While they may be experts at running the processes in their assigned plant, they are neither project managers nor engineers, and this can lead to unmet needs for both the consultant and the city.

00:53:31 Speaker 03: That needs expanded upon.

00:53:33 Speaker 03: I'm going to go back several years.

00:53:36 Speaker 03: Next question coming up would be: Currently within the budget, do we have?

00:53:41 Speaker 03: four engineering technologists or three?

00:53:45 Speaker 03: Because I thought in 2014 we had three, and it was a directive of that time to add a fourth into the budget, and that was the rationale then was to reduce consultancy costs.

00:54:03 Speaker 03: When you're dealing with multi-million dollar projects, there's a consulting engineer that has been hired to facilitate that whole project.

00:54:12 Speaker 03: So when I read this, this strikes me as the water treatment plant.

00:54:15 Speaker 03: Currently, like multi-million-dollar projects, is a pretty small list of potential possibilities.

00:54:23 Speaker 03: So, yeah, I'd like to learn more about that paragraph.

00:54:28 Speaker 03: Thanks.

00:54:31 Speaker 12: Through the mayor to Deputy Mayor Greig.

00:54:33 Speaker 12: Yes, this is the water treatment plant and the wastewater treatment plant.

00:54:36 Speaker 12: Both of those projects are being coordinated by those superintendents primarily.

00:54:46 Speaker 12: Yes, they do have engineering consultants, but the engineering consultants—they always have questions.

00:54:53 Speaker 12: They want direction on which concept or design changes and that type of thing.

00:55:01 Speaker 12: In particular, the wastewater treatment plant, that particular consultant, HB, okay.

00:55:15 Speaker 12: There has been a lot of sort of back and forth on design inquiries.

00:55:24 Speaker 12: Like they want a lot of guidance from staff.

00:55:26 Speaker 12: So when we retain a consultant and we expect them to be giving us advice, but they're looking to us for, essentially, giving them the go-ahead for the next step and that type of thing.

00:55:44 Speaker 12: It can lead to delays.

00:55:47 Speaker 12: It can lead to us, you know, seemingly spinning our wheels because we're looking to them for an answer.

00:55:54 Speaker 12: They're looking to us for an answer.

00:55:56 Speaker 12: At the end of the day, the superintendents—they're doing the best they can.

00:55:59 Speaker 12: But they are—they operate their plant.

00:56:02 Speaker 12: They're not to take on a project like that, it's a lot for them.

00:56:08 Speaker 12: And yes, we have four engineering technologists, but they're primarily responsible for the linear infrastructure.

00:56:14 Speaker 12: They have not been responsible historically for the vertical infrastructure, which is the water and wastewater treatment plants.

00:56:21 Speaker 12: So, the project coordinator position that we've been contemplating would be a position that would work across all of those divisions.

00:56:32 Speaker 12: Sorry, division, sorry, and provide additional assistance with the document control aspect, keeping things on time, making sure that information is flowing back and forth in an efficient manner.

00:56:47 Speaker 12: The type of things that the operators, as good as they are at the day-to-day operation of their plants, that is not their wheelhouse.

00:56:57 Speaker 12: That is not their primary skill set.

00:56:59 Speaker 12: So we need someone to make sure that the T's are crossed, the I's are dotted,

00:57:05 Speaker 12: and everything keeps moving along smoothly without all of the additional distraction of whether the chlorine shipment came in on time,

00:57:14 Speaker 12: or dealing with overflow events and things like that that they have going on in the background.

00:57:24 Speaker 03: So it could be confirmed that we currently have four engineering technician positions in the budget, and this report is requesting, in an ideal situation, to then go to five.

00:57:38 Speaker 03: Right now, we have one that hasn't been filled, so if I could just have clarity on that.

00:57:43 Speaker 03: So that's status quo because in the flow charts, in the org charts, there's several new roles illustrated.

00:57:50 Speaker 03: So it's simply requesting to stay at the current four in the budget, and filling the vacant role currently.

00:57:59 Speaker 03: Or an increase?

00:58:13 Speaker 12: I'll start answering, and then I think our colleague will jump in if I'm not articulating it clearly.

00:58:22 Speaker 12: So, yes, we're keeping the four engineering technologist positions—they are not changing.

00:58:28 Speaker 12: One is in the process of being filled, the vacant one.

00:58:32 Speaker 12: We have had some challenges with that one, but that is the way the industry is currently.

00:58:39 Speaker 12: The project coordinator position is not considered an engineering position.

00:58:44 Speaker 12: It does not require an engineering background.

00:58:48 Speaker 12: It is more of a document control, project management, sort of the administrative component of the project management realm that they wouldn't be going out on site and doing inspection,

00:59:03 Speaker 12: but they would be making sure that the project documentation is in place, that the flow, like I said, the flow of information is going back and forth,

00:59:12 Speaker 12: and people are getting back to each other so that we're not left with gaps of people waiting for someone else to get back to them.

00:59:22 Speaker 12: That type of thing.

00:59:24 Speaker 12: It's more of a workflow optimization type of position.

00:59:32 Speaker 13: Okay.

00:59:33 Speaker 13: While we're talking flowcharts here or org charts, backflow prevention coordinator.

00:59:42 Speaker 13: We had some discussion regarding that position change in job.

00:59:48 Speaker 13: Is that just currently again looking to internalize a contract position at this time?

01:00:00 Speaker 11: Three, Mr. Chair, that individual, the individual filling the contract role, has been here for over three years, under the collective agreement, has pretty much gets the pay and the benefits under the collective agreement,

01:00:15 Speaker 11: except for LTD life and life insurance, and so there is a very, very minimal cost in making that role permanent, which is why it will come through the budget process again to see that.

01:00:34 Speaker 11: But from an HR perspective, when there is no—I can't tell you where that line in the sand is, but we can call somebody contract.

01:00:44 Speaker 11: But at some point, you can call them contract, but they've been here long enough that they become permanent.

01:00:51 Speaker 13: And I understand that and appreciate that.

01:00:52 Speaker 13: Thank you very much.

01:00:54 Speaker 13: I think we will have a point where we'll have to go into closed to speak to some of these roles.

01:01:01 Speaker 13: They're identifiable.

01:01:03 Speaker 13: When we talk about contract, the backflow prevention project was a great example of indeed actually needing a contract employee to carry out that project.

01:01:14 Speaker 13: It was a project-specific undertaking to completing that project, not looking to internalize future obligations.

01:01:26 Speaker 13: That was never part of the reporting at the start of that expensive undertaking, and any indication of ongoing operational costs was never a part of that conversation.

01:01:38 Speaker 13: So, I think that's where I'll leave it now.

01:01:40 Speaker 13: But I do think there's a strong case to go into closed on this report yet.

01:01:45 Speaker 13: No questions.

01:01:52 Speaker 07: This is a tough report for me because I really don't understand a lot about the Public Works and Engineering divisions and what people do and really the roles and like when you're talking about linear

01:02:05 Speaker 07: infrastructure versus vertical,

01:02:08 Speaker 07: we've been operating with three engineering technologists for how long versus four.

01:02:13 Speaker 07: For the backflow prevention coordinator position, same sort of thought process as Scott.

01:02:23 Speaker 07: I thought that this was like a temporary project that at some point would end.

01:02:27 Speaker 07: And why are we internalizing a full-time position?

01:02:31 Speaker 07: So I have questions, but I don't really know how to verbalize.

01:02:37 Speaker 07: And my only comments would be that part of Service Review was to find efficiencies and to right-size the services that we're providing for what we can afford.

01:02:55 Speaker 07: And if we're going to be adding positions, I'm going to be looking for a red pen to start cutting elsewhere.

01:03:02 Speaker 07: So I want to see the options: if we're adding here, where are we decreasing positions?

01:03:12 Speaker 05: Just one additional question that I wanted to ask earlier and forgot—probably to HR.

01:03:18 Speaker 05: When individuals are hired for a position that can be Parks sometimes, Public Works sometimes—are both department heads involved in that interview process?

01:03:31 Speaker 05: And also, how confusing is it to the individual when one day they're working here and one day they're working there for a different department head?

01:03:42 Speaker 11: Three, Mr. Chair, they would be.

01:03:44 Speaker 11: We would actually have a job description that would kind of formalize it.

01:03:48 Speaker 11: It wouldn't be a kind of daily back and forth.

01:03:50 Speaker 11: It would more be seasonal, if you will, back and forth.

01:03:54 Speaker 11: I do understand that this, and I wasn't here, but I understand from the current union president that he actually started this way.

01:04:04 Speaker 11: So he worked in Parks and then he would go over to Public Works for winter control.

01:04:10 Speaker 11: I don't totally know how clarity will become important as we do this in terms of people and making sure they understand what their responsibilities are, who they report to,

01:04:22 Speaker 11: and those kinds of things as we implement this moving forward.

01:04:30 Speaker 07: Sorry, I do have one more.

01:04:31 Speaker 07: So we're talking about the five seasonal positions moving to full-time.

01:04:36 Speaker 07: With the idea that we have 11 seasonals for winter control, 16 for spring and summer, and combining five of those into a full-time,

01:04:48 Speaker 07: I'm looking at the costing appendix C. Can someone please explain to me?

01:04:53 Speaker 07: Is that the bottom line?

01:04:56 Speaker 07: Is like that's a savings having to do with that the five?

01:05:02 Speaker 07: Through you, Mr. Chair.

01:05:03 Speaker 11: It is a savings between aligning two Public Works to Parks through the summer; it's moving two Public Works to Parks and then reducing the five becoming permanent,

01:05:17 Speaker 11: and overall reducing the numbers of seasonals that we would hire.

01:05:23 Speaker 11: So it's a combination.

01:05:24 Speaker 11: The last line.

01:05:25 Speaker 11: Let me try again.

01:05:27 Speaker 11: The last line incorporates movements of Public Works staff to Parks, as well as changing some seasonals to permanent, thereby reducing the overall need for seasonal staff across both divisions throughout the year.

01:05:48 Speaker 11: Okay, thank you.

01:05:50 Speaker 07: So that still leaves a potential six positions that we're filling here in the spring and here in the fall.

01:06:03 Speaker 07: Does it make sense to do more than the five?

01:06:08 Speaker 07: Would there be additional cost savings?

01:06:13 Speaker 14: I hope the Manager of HR is okay with me answering this question.

01:06:18 Speaker 14: There's a saying that the devil's in the detail, and the implementation of these positions will be really important.

01:06:25 Speaker 14: I think there used to be, as has been referenced today, four positions.

01:06:30 Speaker 14: I think if we can be successful in five positions, it will allow us to evaluate, monitor, tweak how that works, and if there's an opportunity and a possibility for more,

01:06:47 Speaker 14: investing in staff and having them trained and not having to do that on an annual basis will save us a lot of time each spring and similarly in the fall, for Public Works.

01:07:00 Speaker 14: But I think if we start with something manageable, it will allow us to evaluate it and make sure that we're, you know, working with the union to get it right.

01:07:12 Speaker 14: To Councillor Koepke's point, the clarification of who is who—am I working for from May till October—is incredibly important from a risk management, from a WSIB perspective too.

01:07:27 Speaker 14: It is really important that somebody knows who their supervisor, manager, and director is based on those seasons.

01:07:39 Speaker 07: And going back to the costing appendix C, so we're saying that your ideal option is going to cost three hundred and sixty-four thousand total.

01:07:57 Speaker 07: Between tax and wastewater funding, is that correct?

01:08:19 Speaker 11: Sorry, thank you.

01:08:20 Speaker 11: So the ideal option would cost three hundred sixty-four thousand.

01:08:23 Speaker 11: If implemented.

01:08:31 Speaker 07: So, when we say rate funded, and we're adding 264 thousand dollars out of the water wastewater rates, how does that affect the water wastewater rates?

01:08:42 Speaker 07: Are we looking at having to increase those to cover this new 264 thousand, or is there room in the budget to cover that?

01:08:56 Speaker 15: Trying to add up on my phone here.

01:08:58 Speaker 15: There is room in the budget to cover this year's cost of implementing this plan.

01:09:05 Speaker 15: However, there would be a budget adjustment next year if we were to move forward with the way it is presented.

01:09:16 Speaker 09: May you also inform the committee of what the proposed increase is already for water rates for next year, because that's part of the plan.

01:09:26 Speaker 09: That's already the proposal.

01:09:30 Speaker 15: I'm going by memory, but I believe it's five percent is what they predicted on an annual basis.

01:09:39 Speaker 15: That's in the plan, right?

01:09:40 Speaker 15: Yeah, I think it is five.

01:09:45 Speaker 16: Each spring we run into the hanging baskets haven't gone up quickly enough.

01:09:51 Speaker 16: The flowers in the bridge haven't gone up quickly enough.

01:09:54 Speaker 16: The snowplow hit my front lawn, and they haven't come and repaired it.

01:09:58 Speaker 16: And we're scrambling each spring, trying to well, this year we're into June.

01:10:05 Speaker 16: Really, you know, when some of that stuff is still happening, is this going to solve some of that?

01:10:13 Speaker 14: That's a great question, Your Worship.

01:10:17 Speaker 14: There is method in the madness sometimes.

01:10:19 Speaker 14: Those baskets don't go up often because there is a late frost.

01:10:23 Speaker 14: I know I was covering things at my home this spring; it would be impossible.

01:10:27 Speaker 14: So we wait till June, and that risk of frost is gone.

01:10:31 Speaker 14: Spending twenty thousand dollars on baskets to have them hit by frost would be a bad plan.

01:10:37 Speaker 14: But I think your question is around: Will there be some staff that will help us avoid some of those frustrations in terms of spring clean up?

01:10:48 Speaker 14: Eckert and Matt have a really good handle on it, and it will come through this committee later in the fall.

01:10:56 Speaker 14: The key areas: what staff do and when we do it.

01:11:00 Speaker 14: And I think having those seasonal staff a little bit earlier as full-time people will help relieve some of that pressure.

01:11:09 Speaker 14: Often spring happens, and you know we have an 18-degree day, and everybody wants everything looking like summer and given the number of parks and number of streets we have,

01:11:20 Speaker 14: it's not possible to staff at a level that would allow that.

01:11:24 Speaker 14: But it should improve things absolutely.

01:11:29 Speaker 16: Okay, going to the project manager, certainly linear.

01:11:34 Speaker 16: Peter Piccata is my obvious example.

01:11:39 Speaker 16: When they're doing Ninth Street Bridge, I think Jim Blueplan had somebody there supervising from that point of view, and Ninth Street, Tenth Street Bridge, all those things.

01:11:53 Speaker 16: Peter and then whoever has replaced him in that role was pretty important.

01:12:01 Speaker 16: We get to water, wastewater, other projects.

01:12:04 Speaker 16: Do we have enough projects to make this full time, or are we still better off to contract for them when they come and get someone, hire an external person to act on our behalf,

01:12:15 Speaker 16: on the city's behalf, for those projects.

01:12:21 Speaker 12: To your Worship, the construction administration aspect is only one part of it.

01:12:27 Speaker 12: The project coordination role that we're talking about is pretty much everything leading up to that,

01:12:34 Speaker 12: and then they can potentially assist with some of like the payment certificates and the paperwork associated with the construction aspect, but it's all the preliminary stuff, the design work, liaising with the consultants,

01:12:49 Speaker 12: and you know all of the stuff dealing with the public information sessions and all of that other stuff.

01:13:00 Speaker 12: That like really the construction part is like taking it from the twenty yard line to the end zone.

01:13:06 Speaker 12: It's only a chunk, a small chunk of the actual project from cradle to grave.

01:13:12 Speaker 12: So, yes, we are recruiting.

01:13:16 Speaker 12: We are in the process of recruiting the technologists that would be in charge of the construction inspection part of all of our linear work.

01:13:28 Speaker 12: The replacement to that particular individual's position.

01:13:33 Speaker 12: But this is a lot of like the document control stuff that traditionally those positions haven't either had time or necessarily the skill set to really do properly.

01:13:50 Speaker 12: The other part of it is we have a lot more projects that we could be doing that we keep paring back every year because it's not an achievable schedule.

01:14:03 Speaker 12: Even since I've been here, our capital project list has gone from.

01:14:10 Speaker 12: It's probably gone down to about a third of the number of projects that we were planning on doing, per year, because it just isn't seen as an achievable schedule.

01:14:20 Speaker 12: We were deferring things to the next year, to the next year, to the next year because we weren't getting them done.

01:14:26 Speaker 12: So this will take some of that labour off of their desks and put it on the desk of someone that has the aptitude to really do all of that stuff in a very efficient way.

01:14:40 Speaker 06: Are we talking about a PE, professional engineer?

01:14:43 Speaker 06: Are we talking about an engineering technologist?

01:14:45 Speaker 06: Are we talking about an administrator?

01:14:48 Speaker 06: More of an administrator.

01:14:52 Speaker 06: Okay.

01:14:53 Speaker 06: What do we want to do with it?

01:14:58 Speaker 13: I'd make a motion to go into closed session to speak to identifiable positions within the report,

01:15:06 Speaker 13: and that the City Manager and the Manager of HR remain in the room with the Clerk or the recording secretary.

01:15:14 Speaker 13: That's a motion.

01:15:15 Speaker 13: Call the question in favour.

01:15:18 Speaker 13: That's carried.

02:03:38 Speaker 06: Okay, it is 11:03 a.m. in the committee. 11:03 a.m.

02:03:43 Speaker 06: That's right.

02:03:43 Speaker 06: The committee is returning to the open session.

02:03:46 Speaker 06: In the closed session, the committee considered labour relations, employee negotiations, personal matters about identifiable individuals, respecting an update on an engineering and public works structure review.

02:03:58 Speaker 06: No direction was provided.

02:04:00 Speaker 06: So that's with regard to 8D on our agenda.

02:04:05 Speaker 06: I don't think we've had a motion one way or the other on 8D.

02:04:10 Speaker 06: I'm looking at the clock.

02:04:12 Speaker 06: It's five after eleven.

02:04:13 Speaker 06: We're scheduled to end at eleven.

02:04:17 Speaker 06: I'm suggesting that we're going to bring a motion after we completely deal with 8D, which we've started, which will set aside or adjourn the other remaining items A, E, F, G,

02:04:30 Speaker 06: and H to meeting to be set by the chair.

02:04:39 Speaker 06: I guess so.

02:04:40 Speaker 06: I'm just thinking staff that's sitting around waiting to deal with the rest of those things.

02:04:44 Speaker 06: Maybe don't need to wait around.

02:04:46 Speaker 17: But if we can deal with A, D, Marion, I'll move a motion to accept the recommendation, which is that in consideration of staff report CM 25-022,

02:04:59 Speaker 05: respecting an update on service review project one hundred and eighty three, and the engineering and public works department structure review,

02:05:07 Speaker 05: the Service Review Implementation Ad Hoc Committee recommends the City Council direct staff to include the new staffing positions in the ideal option of the Mayor's two thousand and twenty six budget for the Mayor's consideration,

02:05:20 Speaker 05: and include the realignment of five seasonal positions in the Mayor's two thousand and twenty six budget for consideration by the Mayor.

02:05:28 Speaker 05: Thank you, Councillor Gregg.

02:05:31 Speaker 05: Thank you.

02:05:31 Speaker 05: I am going to vote against that.

02:05:34 Speaker 13: I am in support of something more along the lines of advancing the framework of the mid-ST form and not including formalizing the backflow prevention rule as part of the budget consideration as well.

02:05:51 Speaker 13: It's a wonderful individual that's been fulfiling that role, but I'm not convinced that we should be moving forward and advancing that into the corporation beyond completion of that project.

02:06:03 Speaker 16: So, when you vote, you're voting specifically against the ideal option.

02:06:06 Speaker 16: Is that what you're indicating?

02:06:09 Speaker 16: I would make a motion to split the vote, please.

02:06:15 Speaker 16: So, you're splitting one out.

02:06:21 Speaker 16: Okay.

02:06:22 Speaker 16: So one's coming out.

02:06:23 Speaker 16: We're dealing with the rest of it.

02:06:24 Speaker 16: All in favour?

02:06:26 Speaker 16: Question.

02:06:28 Speaker 18: Just a question to staff on again the costing.

02:06:32 Speaker 18: Just so we're clear, the ideal option, the total cost is three hundred sixty-four thousand.

02:06:38 Speaker 18: But then we, the bottom line of the costing appendix C says the minus one hundred four.

02:06:44 Speaker 18: So once we take both into account, are we looking at an additional cost of two hundred and sixty thousand instead of three hundred and sixty-four thousand?

02:06:55 Speaker 19: Through you, Chair, to Councillor Middlebro'.

02:06:57 Speaker 19: That's correct.

02:07:04 Speaker 01: So this is the motion to sever up number one out and dealing with the rest of it.

02:07:09 Speaker 01: All in favour?

02:07:10 Speaker 01: Motion.

02:07:11 Speaker 01: Sorry.

02:07:12 Speaker 01: Motion to motion.

02:07:14 Speaker 01: Yes.

02:07:16 Speaker 01: So that is carried.

02:07:18 Speaker 01: So if we can come back to the original motion, which was Marion's motion, would deal with the recommendation number two only, and I think further to discuss there.

02:07:32 Speaker 01: So number two, five, five, five, six, correct.

02:07:38 Speaker 01: That's the five C's.

02:07:39 Speaker 01: No, okay.

02:07:39 Speaker 01: Call the question.

02:07:40 Speaker 01: All in favour?

02:07:42 Speaker 01: That is carried.

02:07:42 Speaker 01: Now we can come back to number one, which is Marion's motion.

02:07:45 Speaker 01: It is still on the table, but voting on it separately, which is to include new staffing positions.

02:07:52 Speaker 01: In the ideal option, I think we need to discuss further.

02:07:57 Speaker 01: Call the question.

02:07:58 Speaker 01: All in favour?

02:07:59 Speaker 01: One opposed.

02:08:01 Speaker 01: Two.

02:08:01 Speaker 01: So that is defeated.

02:08:03 Speaker 01: Any subsequent motion?

02:08:06 Speaker 01: Deputy Mayor Greig.

02:08:09 Speaker 09: I'll move the MiST framework, which was presented with the exclusion of former...

02:08:15 Speaker 09: Exclusion of formalizing the backflow prevention rule as part of that org chart.

02:08:21 Speaker 16: Okay, everyone understands the motion.

02:08:23 Speaker 16: Any discussion on it?

02:08:25 Speaker 16: Seeing none, I'll call the question.

02:08:27 Speaker 16: All in favour?

02:08:30 Speaker 16: Two, four, one against.

02:08:32 Speaker 16: So that carries.

02:08:34 Speaker 16: I guess that would be...

02:08:39 Speaker 16: No, that carries.

02:08:44 Speaker 16: So, that completes 8D.

02:08:50 Speaker 16: Christina, are we adjourning this meeting to be recalled, or are we setting it over for a new meeting to be called?

02:08:58 Speaker 16: Do you know?

02:09:10 Speaker 16: It's...

02:09:11 Speaker 16: We're not completing the contract.

02:09:12 Speaker 16: We're not completing the contents of this meeting, so we are...

02:09:15 Speaker 16: Are we adjourning this meeting to be recalled to a date set by the chair, or are we going to a new meeting to deal with the remaining things and putting these things over to it?

02:09:34 Speaker 16: So it'd be a motion to postpone and to adjourn the meeting to a date to be determined.

02:09:45 Speaker 16: Uh oh.

02:09:57 Speaker 16: So, Brandon, we're unable to complete the meeting, given that we're over time now, and I've got appointments.

02:10:03 Speaker 16: There's four things being left.

02:10:05 Speaker 16: The question was, and the decision has been suggested that we would be postponing the remainder of this meeting, and adjourning to a date to be set.

02:10:16 Speaker 16: We're not going to a new meeting.

02:10:22 Speaker 20: Through your worship, are you looking for us to organise a special meeting, or wait until the next meeting to put all the items over to that meeting?

02:10:32 Speaker 16: I think we'd want to bring a special meeting, or to continue this meeting at a date to be set.

02:10:41 Speaker 20: Perhaps just for clarity, we have a motion to direct staff to prepare a special meeting to complete the remainder of the items on this agenda, and then you can adjourn the meeting.

02:10:54 Speaker 20: Okay.

02:10:54 Speaker 16: Thank you, Christina.

02:10:59 Speaker 16: You're good.

02:11:01 Speaker 16: Okay.

02:11:02 Speaker 16: Motion.

02:11:05 Speaker 05: I'll make a motion that we convene a special meeting to continue the business of this agenda.

02:11:16 Speaker 05: Okay.

02:11:16 Speaker 05: Any questions on that?

02:11:18 Speaker 05: All in favour?

02:11:18 Speaker 01: That is carried.

02:11:20 Speaker 01: So with that, we don't complete the business of this agenda.

02:11:24 Speaker 01: However, we're adjourned at eleven ten a.m.

02:11:30 Speaker 01: Thank you.