Owen Sound Council Meeting - Regular Meeting Transcript — February 23, 2026

00:00:10 Ian Boddy: Good evening.

00:00:10 Ian Boddy: This is once again City Council, February twenty-third, twenty twenty-six.

00:00:15 Ian Boddy: Calling the meeting to order.

00:00:17 Ian Boddy: I know that Councillor Middlebro' has the motions tonight.

00:00:21 Ian Boddy: Councillor Kukreja is unable to attend, and sitting in for Ms. Allan is David Crane, the Deputy Treasurer in waiting.

00:00:31 Ian Boddy: He'll become the Deputy Treasurer before the meeting is over.

00:00:35 Ian Boddy: Welcome, David.

00:00:37 Ian Boddy: David sat on various committees here at the city over the years and had a couple different jobs that involved finance and banking, and comes in with a perfect background to help us with the Deputy Treasurer's role.

00:00:50 Ian Boddy: So, welcome.

00:00:54 Ian Boddy: Calling for additional business.

00:01:00 Ian Boddy: I'm going to have just two items of things that I've attended in the last couple of weeks.

00:01:03 Ian Boddy: It should be short.

00:01:05 Ian Boddy: Should be declarations of interest, general nature thereof.

00:01:10 Ian Boddy: Seeing none.

00:01:11 Ian Boddy: Of course, you can declare them if they come up.

00:01:15 Ian Boddy: Number four, confirmation of council minutes.

00:01:17 Ian Boddy: Councillor Mitterbecher.

00:01:20 Melanie Middlebro: Moved by myself, seconded by Councillor Dodd, that the minutes of the following meetings be adopted as printed: one, the closed session of the regular council meeting held on January 12, 2026; two, the closed session of the special council meeting held on January 16, 2026; and three, the regular council meeting held on February 9, 2026.

00:01:41 Ian Boddy: All in favor?

00:01:43 Ian Boddy: That is carried.

00:01:45 Ian Boddy: Number five, motion to move council into committee of the whole.

00:01:52 Melanie Middlebro: Moved by myself, seconded by Councillor Dodd, that City Council now move into Committee of the Whole to consider public meetings, deputations and presentations, public forum matters arising from correspondence, reports of city staff, consent agenda, committee minutes, matters postponed, motions for which notice was previously given, and additional business.

00:02:13 Ian Boddy: All in favor?

00:02:15 Ian Boddy: And that is carried.

00:02:16 Ian Boddy: So we're now in Committee of the Whole at number six.

00:02:19 Ian Boddy: We have no public meetings at number seven.

00:02:22 Ian Boddy: Mr. Simmonds is doing his City Manager's update.

00:02:27 Tim Simmonds: Thank you, Mayor, and through you to Council.

00:02:30 Tim Simmonds: Yeah, glad to be bringing the February City Manager's update.

00:02:33 Tim Simmonds: I hope, as I note the winter maintenance operations going on in this title slide, that this is the last month I use that picture.

00:02:40 Tim Simmonds: Next month, hopefully, we transition to something more Spring-like.

00:02:43 Tim Simmonds: So, optimistic.

00:02:45 Tim Simmonds: Highlights: So, we've had another successful year of the Just Say Yes event that took place here at City Hall on Valentine's Day.

00:02:52 Tim Simmonds: We had twelve couples get married here, and staff put in a lot of time with that.

00:02:56 Tim Simmonds: But I think it was really successful and garnered a lot of great feedback.

00:03:01 Tim Simmonds: Camp Tom opened for registration February seventeenth, and more than fifty percent of spaces were booked within the first two days.

00:03:07 Tim Simmonds: So that's encouraging.

00:03:09 Tim Simmonds: Eighty percent of the booths are booked for the Grey Bruce Home and Lifestyle Show, which is coming up May second and third.

00:03:15 Tim Simmonds: That's at the Bayshore, and I should note that the lifestyle aspect of that is a transition this year, so it's not just home show, but there's a lifestyle aspect to the show also, which is I think spurring on the booths and I guess just greater excitement for that event coming up.

00:03:32 Tim Simmonds: Nominations for the two thousand and twenty-six Arts and Culture Awards are now open, and the awards reception for Arts, Culture, and Volunteer Awards will be held on Thursday, April 16th at 6 p.m. at the Bayshore.

00:03:43 Tim Simmonds: The Bayshore and Julie MacArthur Regional Recreation Center hosted another successful Silver Stick Minor Hockey Tournament this month.

00:03:52 Tim Simmonds: We've completed emergency replacement of the domestic hot water boiler and storage tanks at the Harry Lumley Bayshore Community Center with minimal downtime or disruption to service.

00:04:01 Tim Simmonds: So again, thanks staff for that.

00:04:04 Tim Simmonds: And if I could have a slide, please.

00:04:06 Tim Simmonds: Foundation permits were issued to Murphy Construction for new townhouse development.

00:04:10 Tim Simmonds: Permits were also issued to Barry's Construction for a new food storage building for OSHaRE.

00:04:16 Tim Simmonds: Water meter upgrades are moving on to the next phase, which is to implement the customer interface to allow users to start to monitor their own usage, set alarms, check for leaks, etc. So that was an important element of when we are changing over water meters is to put that power back into the user, so they'll have an interface that they can look at online and see where their water usage is.

00:04:38 Tim Simmonds: And I know staff are already working with some affected customers.

00:04:41 Tim Simmonds: They've noticed leaks and leak detection, and proactively are calling those people to talk about that.

00:04:46 Tim Simmonds: So that's a great service staff are doing.

00:04:50 Tim Simmonds: This past week's mild weather has allowed public works staff to work on patching and filling potholes and clearing storm drains to prevent flooding.

00:04:57 Tim Simmonds: We had a public information center for the Fourth Avenue West reconstruction, which was held within the project area and garnered strong public attention.

00:05:05 Tim Simmonds: That went to operations committee this past week, but it sounds like a novel approach.

00:05:09 Tim Simmonds: But they rented space and they had quite a few residents turnout.

00:05:13 Tim Simmonds: So as opposed to holding that traditionally here at City Hall, just outside of council chambers, we went to where the actual construction reconstruction was happening and got space there in the United Church, and the people that attended thought that was great—that it was in their neighborhood and easily accessible.

00:05:30 Tim Simmonds: We also had a public information center for the Sixteenth Street Pedestrian Tunnel, and that took place just this past week here at City Hall.

00:05:37 Tim Simmonds: And winter maintenance has been heavily underway.

00:05:40 Tim Simmonds: Our manager of Public Works is at the back of the room, and he talked extensively about winter maintenance and where that is at Operations Committee, and delivered sort of a synopsis report there.

00:05:51 Tim Simmonds: The city has received, I'd say, maybe as of today, four hundred centimeters of snow.

00:05:56 Tim Simmonds: Our average is about three hundred and thirty, so we're above normal, I guess, quite a bit.

00:06:02 Tim Simmonds: Looking at our upcoming committees, the March twelfth Corporate Services Committee.

00:06:05 Tim Simmonds: We have Animal Control twenty twenty-five Year in Review, a Bylaw Enforcement twenty twenty-five Year in Review, a Fire Apparatus Purchase Report, External Communications Strategy Report.

00:06:15 Tim Simmonds: Communication Strategy Report.

00:06:18 Tim Simmonds: Community Services Committee, March eighteenth.

00:06:20 Tim Simmonds: We have Community Improvement Plan programs, and that's a two thousand and twenty-five wrap-up presentation.

00:06:25 Tim Simmonds: We'll be talking about the Brownfield Financial Tax Incentive Program application for Saint Clair Place, a draft Sidewalk Patio Guideline report, and also an Economic Health Report card.

00:06:37 Tim Simmonds: If I could have a slide, our Operations Committee is meeting March nineteenth.

00:06:42 Tim Simmonds: We have an annual Transit Report.

00:06:43 Tim Simmonds: We have a cost recovery for contractor use of leaf and yard waste site report, upgrades to our traffic signal infrastructure, Tenth Street West and Eighth Avenue West, and then the annual two thousand and twenty-five wastewater annual report.

00:06:57 Tim Simmonds: And last week at Operations Committee, we had the two thousand and twenty-five water annual report.

00:07:02 Tim Simmonds: If people are interested in reviewing that, in case you missed it again, as our media advisory is issued, we just sort of aggregate these all in one place into this City Manager's update.

00:07:13 Tim Simmonds: So if people are looking for something, this might be an easy location.

00:07:16 Tim Simmonds: You can click on that from the homepage of the website and see all of the various media advisories that have gone out, as opposed to scrolling through a full listing slide.

00:07:28 Tim Simmonds: The arts, culture, and volunteer awards.

00:07:30 Tim Simmonds: So I wanted to make special mention of this.

00:07:33 Tim Simmonds: The volunteer of the year awards is March first deadline nomination closing, and the arts and culture awards nomination deadline closing is March twenty-seventh.

00:07:44 Tim Simmonds: We are asking, inviting the public to help recognize the significant contribution of our local arts, culture, and volunteer community.

00:07:51 Tim Simmonds: And the where, when, and how it's at the Bayshore Community Center, and that event's planned for Thursday, April sixteenth at six p.m.

00:07:58 Tim Simmonds: Events open to the public.

00:08:00 Tim Simmonds: It will include light snacks, entertainment, and also a cash. bar, and having just a little bit of fun.

00:08:08 Tim Simmonds: So there's really five seasons here in Owen Sound: winter, fall, spring, summer.

00:08:13 Tim Simmonds: But I know we're right about pothole season.

00:08:17 Tim Simmonds: So this one sort of goes out to Councillor Koepke, who makes special note of potholes each year.

00:08:22 Tim Simmonds: But I just wanted to bring this up because there are potholes that will be forming here in the next few weeks, and the easiest way to get those reported is through a report a concern form.

00:08:33 Tim Simmonds: Again, go to the city's website, the main page, report a concern, in the drop-down queue, and that's sort of a screenshot here.

00:08:40 Tim Simmonds: One of the topics of concern is pothole or road issue.

00:08:43 Tim Simmonds: Click on that, and you can put in the address where it is.

00:08:47 Tim Simmonds: It gets into the staff queue, the operational queue, so staff can get out and have that cataloged, logged, and they can get the work done properly.

00:08:55 Tim Simmonds: So I know people will be calling in or sending emails in.

00:08:59 Tim Simmonds: But really, the most efficient and quickest way to get those potholes fixed is to go to the website, report a concern, choose pothole.

00:09:06 Tim Simmonds: If people like, they can also take a picture of the damage to the street or the pothole and add that with it.

00:09:12 Tim Simmonds: But it takes about sixty to ninety seconds to get that form filled out, and then we have a true accounting of when and where, and we can get our staff scheduled appropriately to get out and get it fixed.

00:09:21 Tim Simmonds: Thank you, Your Worship.

00:09:29 Melanie Middlebro: Just a question through you to the manager: Can you explain to people why it's better to go through the city's website as opposed to emailing an individual you might know at the city to get a pothole fixed?

00:09:42 Tim Simmonds: Sure.

00:09:43 Tim Simmonds: Through you, Mayor to Councillor Koepke.

00:09:44 Tim Simmonds: Yeah, the main advantage is it's real easy.

00:09:47 Tim Simmonds: We all know most everybody knows somebody, and they'll send an email in.

00:09:51 Tim Simmonds: But that email can easily get lost or overlooked.

00:09:54 Tim Simmonds: This system with Report a Concern, when you choose pothole or whatever the issue or concern might be, actually date stamps it, times it, puts a time with it.

00:10:03 Tim Simmonds: Sorry, and it sends it out to the appropriate people in that department that handle potholes in this situation for this.

00:10:10 Tim Simmonds: So the Public Works Roads teams will get an email as soon as this is filled out.

00:10:15 Tim Simmonds: It will go to their general email box, but also to the manager, and the manager is also associated the appropriate staff with that, so they'll get that immediate notification.

00:10:24 Tim Simmonds: So as they plan their work day and work week out, that information then gets tallied into that.

00:10:30 Tim Simmonds: Rather than if an email went to myself, for instance, which I do receive emails, then I could forward that onto a director who might forward it to a manager, who then would and so that takes time, and things sometimes get lost in that email shuffle.

00:10:42 Tim Simmonds: I know many staff receive fifty to one hundred emails a day very easily, so it can get lost in that.

00:10:47 Tim Simmonds: This gives a true accounting and gives a very clean understanding of where the issue might be.

00:10:57 Tim Simmonds: And then, final slide: staying connected.

00:11:00 Tim Simmonds: Again, owensound.ca is the city's main webpage.

00:11:03 Tim Simmonds: OurCity.owensound.ca for engagement.

00:11:07 Tim Simmonds: The report of concern that we've just spoken about, and then there's always something going on here in the River District.

00:11:12 Tim Simmonds: So, owensoundriverdistrict.ca and owensoundtourism.ca for events and happenings, and where you might want to get involved, take a class at a local art studio, etc. Those are great calendars and great information.

00:11:24 Tim Simmonds: Good.

00:11:27 Ian Boddy: Thanks.

00:11:28 Ian Boddy: Anyone have any questions for Tim?

00:11:31 Ian Boddy: Seeing none.

00:11:32 Ian Boddy: You're off the hook.

00:11:34 Ian Boddy: Number eight: public forum.

00:11:39 Ian Boddy: There isn't anyone rushing to the microphone for the public forum.

00:11:44 Ian Boddy: Number nine, we have no correspondence items being presented for consideration.

00:11:49 Ian Boddy: At number ten, report from Deputy Mayor Greig with regard to Grey County Council.

00:11:58 Scott Greig: Thank you, and through you, Mayor Boddy, I can report the County Council supported a resolution from Peterborough requesting the province to offset additional costs incurred as a result of compliance with the Community Safety and Policing Act, and not general increases to police budgets, and to review and reform its current police grant programs to ensure a more equitable distribution of funding to municipalities, and that the province offset costs associated with provision of court security services.

00:12:28 Scott Greig: Council provided feedback on an updated council compensation bylaw and an update to the fees and charges bylaw.

00:12:35 Scott Greig: Council had an update on provincial funding for early learning and child care, which created a very small deficit for what is budgeted this year.

00:12:43 Scott Greig: Council decided to reduce the scope for reconstruction work for Grey Road 17B, known locally as Nichols Gully, which is scheduled for some remediation work in 2027.

00:12:52 Scott Greig: The joint services committee minutes were supported, which included a shared approach to training and development where possible amongst lower-tier municipalities and Grey County, and concluded that no opportunities for shared library services existed, and to conclude further evaluation.

00:13:10 Scott Greig: Minutes from the road exchange task force were postponed to come back to council after further communication with municipal partners.

00:13:17 Scott Greig: The minutes currently look to execute the transfer of roads to urban municipalities and the road exchanges on July six, two thousand and twenty-six, so later this year, with the exception of four roads awaiting construction completion, and to be transferred on October twenty-nine of this year.

00:13:35 Scott Greig: I welcome questions and ask for council's endorsement of the verbal report.

00:13:39 Scott Greig: And any questions?

00:13:41 Scott Greig: Seeing none, I'll call the question.

00:13:43 Scott Greig: All in favor?

00:13:44 Scott Greig: And that's carried.

00:13:46 Scott Greig: Thank you.

00:13:48 Ian Boddy: Number eleven, Ms. Bloomfield, the consent agenda.

00:13:54 Briana Bloomfield: Through your worship, on the consent agenda this evening is a report on appointing a deputy treasurer, a report on a capital contribution funding agreement with Soggy Shores for animal control services, a report on the approval of non-standard procurement for the supply and delivery of one wheel loader, and a report on an appointment to the Tom Thomson Art Gallery Advisory Committee.

00:14:14 Briana Bloomfield: There are minutes for receipt from the Library Board and Police Board, and the last item on the consent agenda is the information package.

00:14:20 Briana Bloomfield: A full listing is available at 11 G. Thank you, Councillor Middlebro.

00:14:26 Melanie Middlebro: Moved by myself that, in consideration of the items listed on the February twenty-three, two thousand and twenty-six consent agenda, City Council One receives items eleven A to eleven G, and two approves the recommendations contained in items eleven A to eleven D. And all in favor?

00:14:44 Ian Boddy: And that is carried.

00:14:46 Ian Boddy: At eleven E, I note that there is an Owen Sound North Grey Union Public Library Board meeting from November twenty-seven.

00:14:53 Ian Boddy: Councillor Koepke.

00:14:55 Melanie Middlebro: Thank you, Your Worship.

00:14:57 Melanie Middlebro: Given that these are the minutes of the November two thousand and twenty-five library meeting, I note that membership and use of materials at the library continue to increase.

00:15:05 Melanie Middlebro: The library is no longer covered under the city's comprehensive insurance policies, and given that the library operates from a city-owned facility, separate coverage for the remainder of insurance requirements is being sought, and as a result, the budget costs will escalate.

00:15:21 Melanie Middlebro: A successful second annual local authors book fair took place, showcasing a wide range of genres and gave the public a chance to get to know the authors.

00:15:31 Melanie Middlebro: I encourage everyone to visit the library website osgupl.ca to find out what is new at the library and upcoming events that are taking place.

00:15:41 Melanie Middlebro: Good.

00:15:44 Ian Boddy: Thank you.

00:15:45 Ian Boddy: Next, I know you get a question.

00:15:48 Ian Boddy: Yeah, go ahead.

00:15:50 Jon Farmer: Through the insurance piece jumped out at me as the complication of city facility and the library running and the change in the relationship between city insurance.

00:16:04 Jon Farmer: Are there noting that these are three months old at this point?

00:16:07 Jon Farmer: I guess I'm curious to what extent there are opportunities to still have this some sort of benefit from having like knowing that the city's insurance we got a bit of a deal a year or two ago.

00:16:25 Jon Farmer: But I'm curious if there are still opportunities to work together, but like in bulk buying or kind of if that just muddies the waters.

00:16:34 Jon Farmer: What's what's the update on the insurance?

00:16:36 Jon Farmer: Is maybe a better question.

00:16:37 Ian Boddy: If there's one, I think that's a question for staff, and I don't know if Tim can answer.

00:16:43 Ian Boddy: David probably can't yet.

00:16:44 Ian Boddy: Can you?

00:16:47 Brian Green: I can look into that and get back to you on it.

00:16:50 Brian Green: But right now I can't answer.

00:16:51 Brian Green: No. Okay.

00:16:55 Brian Green: Anything else?

00:16:55 Brian Green: Next is On-Scene Police Services Board from December sixteenth.

00:17:01 Brian Green: Are you doing that one, Marion?

00:17:02 Brian Green: Thank you, Your Worship.

00:17:06 Melanie Middlebro: Statistics for the December meeting of the OSPSB are identified in the minutes.

00:17:11 Melanie Middlebro: Chair Thompson noted the Ontario Association of Police Service Boards strategic planning for two thousand and twenty-six to two thousand and twenty-nine has been completed, and noted the upcoming year we will be pivotal will be pivotal to OAPSB's development in an effort to stabilize infrastructure, staffing, and technology requirements to support long-term success of the strategic plan.

00:17:27 Melanie Middlebro: The association name is now changed to Police Governance of Ontario, or PGO.

00:17:34 Melanie Middlebro: Statistics identified for the various divisions are noted in the minutes.

00:18:10 Melanie Middlebro: And of significance, it was noted that two hundred and forty-three hours were provided by the auxiliary unit, who, among other fundraising activities, collected $1,800 and 932 pounds for the food drive. 198 hours were provided by officers required to cover court security, which removed officers from front-line patrol.

00:18:19 Melanie Middlebro: Under the Hate and Crime Grant, a Level Two violent threat risk assessment training was hosted by OSPS with 60 attendees.

00:18:21 Melanie Middlebro: There was a 20% reduction in lost hours for the month.

00:18:23 Melanie Middlebro: A judge and jury case is taking place at the Owen Sound courthouse from Walkerton, and costs related to court security coverage will be sent to the Walkerton court.

00:18:45 Melanie Middlebro: The Owen Sound Emergency Communications Center marked a significant milestone at the end of November, cutting over to NG 911 in its commitment to strengthen public safety and emergency response.

00:18:54 Melanie Middlebro: Members reviewed the health and safety report of the building and mold investigation conducted by the city, and discussed the remediation plan proposed.

00:18:56 Melanie Middlebro: Members were updated on the insurance program for Owen Sound Police Services, and it was recommended that cyber insurance be increased to a coverage of five million dollars.

00:18:58 Melanie Middlebro: Board Chair Thompson shared correspondence and reasons to support a four-year term for council members appointed to serve on the Owen Sound Police Services Board.

00:19:08 Melanie Middlebro: This completes my summary of the minutes of the Owen Sound Police Services Board for December sixteen, two thousand and twenty-five.

00:19:20 Melanie Middlebro: Thank you.

00:19:22 Ian Boddy: Not seeing any hands.

00:19:23 Ian Boddy: Nothing else from the consent agenda that, and wants to hit.

00:19:29 Ian Boddy: Okay, at twelve, committee minutes with recommendations for approvals, starting with Corporate Services Committee held on February twelve.

00:19:29 Ian Boddy: Okay, at twelve, committee minutes with recommendations for approvals, starting with Corporate Services Committee held on February twelve.

00:19:38 Ian Boddy: Thank you, through chair.

00:19:39 Melanie Middlebro: The Corporate Services Committee met on February twelve, two thousand and twenty-six.

00:19:48 Melanie Middlebro: As this was the first meeting of the new cycle, the meeting began with the election of the chair and vice chair.

00:19:53 Melanie Middlebro: Councillor Kukreja was nominated as the chair, and I was nominated as vice chair.

00:19:59 Melanie Middlebro: As Councillor Kukreja was attending virtually, I assumed the role of the chair for the remainder of the meeting.

00:20:04 Melanie Middlebro: The committee approved the minutes of the Corporate Services Committee meeting held on January fifteen, two thousand and twenty-six.

00:20:11 Melanie Middlebro: We then received a presentation from the committee and executive support coordinator and director of corporate services on committee orientation and introduction, which included two thousand and twenty-five accomplishments and two thousand and twenty-six projects for the corporate services division.

00:20:27 Melanie Middlebro: Following that presentation, the committee received reports CM twenty-six zero zero three respecting committee orientation and the two thousand and twenty-six annual organizational work plan.

00:20:56 Melanie Middlebro: There wasn't much discussion as it was a very lengthy document, and it was noted that it's going to be useful for committee members to reference back to as the year's work progresses.

00:21:06 Melanie Middlebro: Committee then received report CR two thousand and twenty-six zero six from the information and privacy coordinator regarding freedom of information two thousand and twenty-five year in review.

00:21:07 Melanie Middlebro: There were ninety-five freedom of information requests completed in two thousand and twenty-five.

00:21:09 Melanie Middlebro: Sixty-nine percent of those requests came from the Owen Sound Police Service for camera footage from various city cameras in the River District facilities and traffic cameras.

00:21:12 Melanie Middlebro: Over four thousand dollars in fees were collected in two thousand and twenty-five, and three hundred and twenty-two hours were spent by the coordinator on FOI administration.

00:21:21 Melanie Middlebro: FOI requests have been steadily rising since two thousand and twenty-four.

00:21:24 Melanie Middlebro: Rising since 2021, the fees are minimal and have not been updated by the province in over 30 years. 90 of the 95 requests were completed within the 30-day legislative time period, and the remaining five were completed with a 30-day extension.

00:21:38 Melanie Middlebro: And that report was received for information.

00:21:41 Melanie Middlebro: Committee then received report CR twenty six zero seven from the Purchasing and Claims Coordinator regarding the biannual summary of awarded tenders and proposals between fifty thousand and two hundred forty nine thousand nine hundred ninety nine dollars from July to December 2025.

00:21:58 Melanie Middlebro: Purchases for these amounts are approved by the delegation of authority from council to the Director of Community or Corporate Services, as well as non-standard purchases between fifty thousand and one hundred thousand dollars.

00:22:10 Melanie Middlebro: The delegation of authority for these purchase thresholds shorten the procurement award process and allow for reduced time project timelines.

00:22:19 Melanie Middlebro: There was a non-standard procurement for engineering services for the replacement of a water main cathodic protection program, in the award amount of sixty-seven thousand five hundred.

00:22:33 Melanie Middlebro: There was a non-standard procurement purchase through the OCM for Microsoft Enterprise Agreement, in the amount of eighty-seven thousand.

00:22:43 Melanie Middlebro: There was a request for proposal for provision of engineering design services and contract for the Sixteenth Street East Tunnel rehab, and that was in the amount of one hundred and seventy-five thousand dollars.

00:22:56 Melanie Middlebro: There was a request for tender for tree removal services, and that was in the amount of eighty-eight thousand dollars, and a request for proposal for landscape architecture services for Kelso Beach at Nawash, and that was in the amount of sixty-seven thousand dollars.

00:23:15 Melanie Middlebro: We then received report CR twenty-six zero zero one from the fire chief regarding twenty twenty-five fire and emergency services annual report.

00:23:23 Melanie Middlebro: The fire admin assistant Greg Nickel attended and presented the report to committee.

00:23:28 Melanie Middlebro: Highlights were as follows: There were a total of one thousand and sixty-nine calls responded to in twenty twenty-five of thirty-seven distinct types of calls, ranging from fire to medical to carbon monoxide and rescue, to name a few.

00:23:42 Melanie Middlebro: There were a total of twenty-five fire calls in twenty twenty-five with an estimated loss of six hundred eighty-seven thousand dollars and an additional twenty-three outdoor no-loss fire calls.

00:23:53 Melanie Middlebro: There were over four hundred and forty-nine medical calls, fifty other type responses, seventy-one pre-fire condition calls, sixty-nine hazard and eighty-six rescue calls.

00:24:05 Melanie Middlebro: They responded to sixty.

00:24:28 Melanie Middlebro: They responded to 62 vehicle collisions, and the hotspot identified this year was at 10th Street and 4th Avenue East, with four collisions at that intersection.

00:24:37 Melanie Middlebro: Over 1,400 inspections were completed, which included all care facilities, over 545 homes, 660 stores and offices, as well as industrial and construction sites.

00:24:39 Melanie Middlebro: In addition to receiving the report for information, the committee had a discussion on the large number of medical calls that were being attended, and moved a motion for future report to outline the types of calls, time spent on calls, and any associated costs.

00:25:07 Melanie Middlebro: The motion was as follows: In consideration of the high number of non-fire calls, primarily medical response, that in consideration of staff report CR twenty-six zero zero one respecting the 2025 Fire and Emergency Services Annual Report.

00:25:17 Melanie Middlebro: Corporate Services Committee recommends City Council direct staff to bring forward a report respecting emergency medical service calls responded to by the Owen Sound Fire and Emergency Services, including associated supplies, equipment, personnel costs to a future Corporate Services Committee meeting in two thousand and twenty-six, which carried.

00:25:20 Melanie Middlebro: With that, I move receipt of the minutes and the meeting held on February twelve, two thousand and twenty-six, and the recommendations contained within.

00:25:31 Melanie Middlebro: Good.

00:25:33 Ian Boddy: Thank you.

00:25:34 Ian Boddy: Any questions?

00:25:34 Ian Boddy: Seeing none, I will call the question.

00:25:37 Ian Boddy: Then all in favor?

00:25:41 Ian Boddy: That is carried.

00:25:42 Ian Boddy: Next is a service review, and that's me.

00:25:43 Ian Boddy: So I'm just going to stay there, and I'll hand you the gavel.

00:25:46 Ian Boddy: Handing the chair to Deputy Mayor Greig.

00:25:52 Scott Greig: And at this time, I will pass it back over to Mayor Boddy to present the minutes of the Service Review Implementation Ad Hoc Committee meeting under Item Twelve B. Thank you.

00:26:02 Ian Boddy: Service Review Implementation Ad Hoc Committee meeting met on February 11, 2026.

00:26:09 Ian Boddy: We received and discussed two reports.

00:26:12 Ian Boddy: First, one the Director of Community Services provided a report regarding service levels for Abera Culture or Urban Forestry and the Cemetery.

00:26:23 Ian Boddy: Throughout 2025, work on collecting park infrastructure and updating tree-related data has continued to establish a more accurate inventory of park assets.

00:26:35 Ian Boddy: This work, along with condition assessments, will help to inform the service level phase of the project.

00:26:42 Ian Boddy: Under Urban Forest, some subtitles, paragraphs, and things.

00:26:46 Ian Boddy: Titles of paragraphs and things that we looked at: tree inventory summary, work order summary, fleet and workspace, storm response plan, climate resilience, strategy, technology, and software, human resources.

00:27:03 Ian Boddy: Under cemetery services, we looked at cemetery assets, service and delivery, staffing, internment trends, fleet and workspace, technology, software, and administration.

00:27:16 Ian Boddy: The committee recommends that City Council approve the draft service level documents substantially in the form attached to the report, and direct staff to move forward with the recommendation as outlined in the service level documents for horticulture and cemetery.

00:27:36 Ian Boddy: Second report was from the Manager of Human Resources, and it updated a report with regard to a project to establish a policy that addresses how new positions are approved, and to create a comprehensive succession management plan.

00:27:51 Ian Boddy: Efforts have been concentrated on executing the first of four phases of the development of a succession management plan.

00:28:03 Ian Boddy: Looked at competencies, establishing key competencies required across the organization, critical roles, pinpointing essential positions crucial to strategic and operational effectiveness, high potential employees, identifying employees with the aptitude and potential to assume critical roles in the future, and for development plans, creating tailored development plans to prepare high potential employees for future responsibilities.

00:28:35 Ian Boddy: The committee recommends that City Council receive that report for information purposes.

00:28:41 Ian Boddy: With that, I remove approval the recommendations contained in the minutes of the Service Review Implementation Ad Hoc Committee meeting held on February 11, 2026.

00:28:53 Scott Greig: Thank you, Mayor Boddy.

00:28:54 Scott Greig: Are there any questions for the chair?

00:28:58 Scott Greig: Not seeing any.

00:28:59 Scott Greig: I'll just note that that extensive report from Parks related to the Arboriculture is one of those types of reports you want to put in your back pocket and you can refer back to for a very long time for the amount of in-depth insight that I think it contains in terms of the type of service and work is that's done and the staffing levels within the department.

00:29:21 Scott Greig: So very in-depth.

00:29:22 Scott Greig: I think 29-page report.

00:29:24 Scott Greig: So not seeing any questions.

00:29:25 Scott Greig: All those in favor?

00:29:27 Scott Greig: And that is carried.

00:29:29 Scott Greig: And this time for item 12C, the gavel is back to the Mayor.

00:29:34 Ian Boddy: Thank you, Scott.

00:29:35 Ian Boddy: I don't think you can fit that report in your back pocket.

00:29:40 Ian Boddy: Baggy jeans are next.

00:29:43 Ian Boddy: Next, we have minutes of the Tom Thomson Art Gallery Advisory Committee meeting held on February 4, 2026.

00:29:48 Ian Boddy: Deputy Mayor Greig.

00:29:49 Scott Greig: Thank you.

00:29:52 Scott Greig: The February committee saw members Peter Tavol and Linda Montgomery elected as chair and vice chair.

00:29:58 Scott Greig: So, I present in the chair's behalf.

00:30:00 Scott Greig: Committee received a 2026 update report. 2025 saw approximately 10,500 exhibition visitors and facilitated 25 tours. 336 patrons participated in three opening receptions during the year. 1,221 patrons attended winter screenings, Gallery Night at the Movies.

00:30:20 Scott Greig: Well, one thousand two hundred twenty-four patrons attended the fall screenings of the Gallery Night at the Movies at the Galaxy Cinéplex Cinemas.

00:30:30 Scott Greig: Forty-four percent of the annual visitors were from Owen Sound, and within the demographic data, is worth noting twenty-eight percent were first-time visitors.

00:30:39 Scott Greig: January was outreach to local high schools supporting the exhibition emergence, which will run mid-April to mid-June.

00:30:47 Scott Greig: Registration opened February 17th for seven weeks of Camp Tom this summer for young artists from eight to twelve.

00:30:54 Scott Greig: And earlier, we heard fifty percent sold out in the first forty-eight hours.

00:30:59 Scott Greig: So, excellent interest right off the bat for Camp Tom this summer.

00:31:05 Scott Greig: An application has been submitted for three summer positions to lead the camp.

00:31:10 Scott Greig: Optional pay by donation free family art experiences are available.

00:31:14 Scott Greig: March 16th to March 20th as part of March break open studio.

00:31:18 Scott Greig: The reorganization of the collection is nearing completion, maximizing storage within existing spaces and demonstrates the gallery's ability to accept and grow.

00:31:27 Scott Greig: The collection remains significantly constrained by storage capacity.

00:31:31 Scott Greig: The Canada Council for the Arts is supporting the gallery with a four-year $70,000 per year grant, and positively, the gallery received a $4,000 grant from the Community Foundation Grey Bruce to support the expansion of Upcycled Tom.

00:31:46 Scott Greig: And planning is underway for Palette to Palette 2026, honoring local artist George McLean.

00:31:52 Scott Greig: A second report recommends that City Council approve updated terms of reference for the art gallery fundraising team and collection team, and approve the expansion team be paused and reconstituted with updated terms of reference when required.

00:32:06 Scott Greig: The updated terms establish a clear framework and provide clarity for staff and working group members on rules and responsibilities, as well as supporting members in understanding their role and expectations.

00:32:18 Scott Greig: And the fundraising update on the successful gallery calendars highlights potential in the 2027 edition, celebrating the one hundred and fiftieth anniversary of Tom Thomson.

00:32:30 Scott Greig: I welcome any questions and ask for Council's endorsement of the committee recommendations.

00:32:35 Ian Boddy: Thank you.

00:32:36 Ian Boddy: Any questions, comments?

00:32:38 Ian Boddy: Seeing none.

00:32:39 Ian Boddy: Call the question on favor, and that is carried.

00:32:44 Ian Boddy: So that gets us down to 13, which is matters postponed, and I assume we're going to take a little bit of time getting through this.

00:32:53 Ian Boddy: So we've got two reports there.

00:32:55 Ian Boddy: One, both of them with regard to committee structure review.

00:33:00 Ian Boddy: First one is the report of feedback, having it been sent to committees to get their feedback back.

00:33:09 Ian Boddy: And Mr. Simmons, anything you need to add to that report, or we're just going to bring a motion to receive it?

00:33:20 Tim Simmonds: Three, may I can give a short synopsis of the February 23rd today's report before we move into the previous and the other.

00:33:30 Tim Simmonds: I refer to the Clerk.

00:33:32 Tim Simmonds: I think we're just receiving the other report.

00:33:34 Olivia Legate: First one is the feedbacks.

00:33:35 Olivia Legate: We're just receiving it.

00:33:35 Olivia Legate: Through you, Your Worship, that is. correct.

00:33:55 Briana Bloomfield: But I believe that the City Manager did have some remarks he wanted to make on this report.

00:33:59 Briana Bloomfield: Go ahead, Tim.

00:34:00 Briana Bloomfield: Okay, I think we're all aligned now.

00:34:01 Briana Bloomfield: Thank you, Mayor, and through you to Council.

00:34:15 Tim Simmonds: So the report tonight stems from our December fifteenth report that came to Council, titled "Committee Structure Review," of which six options were laid out for Council to determine ultimately the governance of how the City moves forward.

00:34:32 Tim Simmonds: It had a variety of approaches, and again, we laid out six different options there.

00:34:36 Tim Simmonds: The report before you tonight, that's to be received for information, comes back to Council at the request of Council staff seeking public feedback.

00:34:46 Tim Simmonds: Staff attended the Community Services Committee, Corporate Services Committee, and Operations Committee meetings in January, as well as the Tom Thomson Art Gallery Advisory Committee meeting.

00:34:57 Tim Simmonds: At those committee meetings, the committee structure presentation were all included with the agendas, and staff presented four questions to each committee for discussion.

00:35:10 Tim Simmonds: We presented four questions to ensure a consistent starting point for every committee.

00:35:15 Tim Simmonds: Staff used the same questions to anchor the conversation and establish a shared baseline.

00:35:21 Tim Simmonds: The approach we used helped generate comparable insights across the committees, supported the development of common themes, and actually prevented any group from feeling that others were asked different or more influential questions.

00:35:33 Tim Simmonds: As part of the City's review of its committee structure, public members shared thoughtful, open feedback about what supports their participation, what challenges they experience and where they see opportunities to strengthen how committees function.

00:35:46 Tim Simmonds: The report goes on to talk about the themes that were generated, and I'll quickly note those.

00:35:53 Tim Simmonds: Theme one focused on onboarding, orientation, and confidence building with public members.

00:36:00 Tim Simmonds: Essentially, what we heard was new public members face a steep learning curve, understanding the City's structure, department roles, procedures, and how to contribute meaningfully.

00:36:10 Tim Simmonds: They talked about potentially some sort of a crash course, topic-based orientation.

00:36:15 Tim Simmonds: Theme two: term lengths, composition, and inclusion.

00:36:18 Tim Simmonds: There was broad interest in shorter terms and to lower the commitment barrier, which they thought would lower a commitment barrier.

00:36:25 Tim Simmonds: They also had support for allowing multiple consecutive terms, like up to six years total.

00:36:31 Tim Simmonds: Theme three was about mandates, scope, and structure, and there were concerns that amalgamating committees or organizing solely by broad strategic priorities may dilute specialized interests of those public members that want to get involved.

00:36:44 Tim Simmonds: Theme four: meeting design, format, and accessibility for participation.

00:36:49 Tim Simmonds: Public members spoke often about the formal meeting style that we see here at Council follows in the same at committees.

00:36:56 Tim Simmonds: Can they feel inhibit participation?

00:36:57 Tim Simmonds: Suggestions were for more informal settings, i.e., roundtable instead of this horseshoe so setup.

00:37:05 Tim Simmonds: After work meetings were preferable for many as opposed to day meetings, and sometimes public deputies sometimes didn't see the outcomes, and there was a desire for potentially more feedback loops.

00:37:17 Tim Simmonds: Theme five was about recruitment awareness and community engagement.

00:37:21 Tim Simmonds: They said it's hard to attract applicants.

00:37:23 Tim Simmonds: Suggestions included targeted outreach on LinkedIn and X and other social media platforms.

00:37:30 Tim Simmonds: They suggested things, even as leveraging quotes from current members about their participation and what they got out of being a public member.

00:37:37 Tim Simmonds: And then theme six: workload, process clarity, and efficiency.

00:37:43 Tim Simmonds: Staff time is significant across numerous committees.

00:37:47 Tim Simmonds: Members suggested narrowing what must come to committee, reducing meeting frequency where feasible, and using consent and information reporting to streamline.

00:37:55 Tim Simmonds: And there's also still they noted some confusion persists about what goes to Council versus committee and which committee an item belongs to.

00:38:02 Tim Simmonds: So potentially clearer routing and expectations would help.

00:38:06 Tim Simmonds: So all of that with those six themes provides useful insight into I think all the public members' experiences.

00:38:15 Tim Simmonds: They offer practical ideas about onboarding, meeting design, workload, participation, and that's really just another component or components of Council's broader decision making, and what brings us back to the December fifteenth report that will be that you'll be speaking about tonight.

00:38:30 Tim Simmonds: Committee structure review.

00:38:32 Tim Simmonds: So again, I'd probably stress in this that ultimately it comes down to Council's idea about governance and the governance of the work that the City staff undertake, and looking at the best options for that.

00:38:44 Tim Simmonds: There is no one clear option.

00:38:47 Tim Simmonds: I think that hits all the points.

00:38:49 Tim Simmonds: But again, I think Council will have a lot of input on that.

00:38:51 Tim Simmonds: With that, Mayor, I'll turn that back over to you.

00:38:54 Tim Simmonds: Okay.

00:38:55 Ian Boddy: Any questions or comments with regard to this report with the feedback from committees, John?

00:39:02 Jon Farmer: Through the Mayor on page five of the report, in using committee input to inform, not define the path forward, the middle paragraphs highlights that it Council has the most comprehensive perspective on governance needs and is best positioned to weigh the six options presented.

00:39:19 Jon Farmer: In the conversations that we're having tonight, I'm curious: does, am I picking this up properly?

00:39:24 Jon Farmer: That the intention is that we are only to draw from those six options, or does Council have the flexibility to refine suggestions in that conversation?

00:39:37 Ian Boddy: That's probably going to come up in the next report, not so much this one from the feedback.

00:39:41 Ian Boddy: But I think you're going to hear out of eight of us probably nine different ideas.

00:39:51 Ian Boddy: Nothing else with regard to this report in particular.

00:39:53 Ian Boddy: No. Okay.

00:39:55 Ian Boddy: So can I call the question, which is to?

00:40:00 Ian Boddy: Oh, sorry, Councillor Dodd.

00:40:03 Travis Dodd: Thank you, Worship.

00:40:04 Travis Dodd: I'll just move the recommendation as it states within.

00:40:06 Travis Dodd: Receive it for informational purposes.

00:40:08 Travis Dodd: Good.

00:40:09 Ian Boddy: Thank you.

00:40:10 Ian Boddy: Now I'll call the question.

00:40:11 Ian Boddy: All in favor?

00:40:12 Ian Boddy: That's carried.

00:40:14 Ian Boddy: So next is the report which came to us that was postponed from City Manager and City Clerk with regard to the committee structure review.

00:40:25 Ian Boddy: Again, before we move forward, Tim, Brianna, anything?

00:40:29 Ian Boddy: Any comments you want to add?

00:40:34 Ian Boddy: One's ignoring me, and one's indicating no. Do anything you want to add?

00:40:41 Briana Bloomfield: Through your Worship, I just think I will add that to Councillor Farmer's point.

00:40:45 Briana Bloomfield: This is an opportunity for you to bring forward your ideas, and I would suspect there will be another report to kind of bring that back in a holistic approach that you can have sort of one more look at what that would be.

00:40:59 Ian Boddy: Good, thank you.

00:41:01 Ian Boddy: Seems to me that there's kind of two things that are going on, and one is the committee structure and what we want to do with it, and then the other one is some of the changes we'd make to the bylaw.

00:41:13 Ian Boddy: What I would propose is that we start off with a discussion, not looking for motions just yet, just a discussion, everyone's ideas on the committee structure and how you would like to see it, and then after that we'll go to the more specific changes in the boards and bylaws, committees, the bylaw of the boards and committees, and then motions.

00:41:40 Ian Boddy: So, discussion on the committee structure.

00:41:44 Ian Boddy: We're probably all going to speak, so I'll just start one end and go to the other.

00:41:48 Ian Boddy: So done in the past.

00:41:51 Ian Boddy: Councillor Councillor Burton, you're up.

00:41:53 Ian Boddy: Through your Worship.

00:41:58 Carol Merton: I'd like to discuss some general concepts and begin by stating we're moving forward in an important conversation.

00:42:08 Carol Merton: And I think we are moving ahead.

00:42:11 Carol Merton: I do not think that we are quite at the point where I would feel comfortable making a decision about what's presented as options.

00:42:22 Carol Merton: Further iterations, and the Mayor has mentioned the opportunity for a report to come forward.

00:42:29 Carol Merton: So I'd like to give some general overview and more specific comments in no particular order.

00:42:36 Carol Merton: Public representation is a critical component as part of the infrastructure of the committees for input, advice, oversight, transparency, accountability.

00:42:45 Carol Merton: Representation, the public voice is important.

00:42:55 Carol Merton: In six, in the six proposed options, three of them have reduced the number of public positions.

00:43:03 Carol Merton: In two of the six options, one of the suggested committees, governance and finance, has only Council and staff members, and no public members.

00:43:15 Carol Merton: I wish to state that I believe it is important that we have a governance and finance committee.

00:43:23 Carol Merton: It is critical for us ongoing to have that accountability and regular communication.

00:43:31 Carol Merton: So I support that.

00:43:33 Carol Merton: I have concerns about no public members as representation.

00:43:39 Carol Merton: Municipal finance committees, finance and Admin Committees, whatever the name is, serve as crucial links between municipal councils, staff, and the public.

00:43:51 Carol Merton: Often including appointed citizen members alongside elected officials to provide oversight on budgeting, taxation, and long-term financial planning.

00:44:03 Carol Merton: These topics are of keen interest, are scrutinized by the public, and we receive regular questions from the public regarding financial issues.

00:44:17 Carol Merton: No public participation on this committee reduces the ongoing contribution and the voice of the public.

00:44:25 Carol Merton: In our area, we have at least two organizations that have governing boards who are moving to a skills-based matrix.

00:44:39 Carol Merton: I suggest that we consider this option, particularly in areas around governance and finance, to be able to be sure that we have the skills for public participation that can augment the skills of our staff.

00:44:56 Carol Merton: One of the strong messages we have heard from the public is that engagement means that their input is valued and has an impact on city decisions.

00:45:06 Carol Merton: In the term and process for public members to serve on committees, which is a point of change, the saying "one size fits all" does not mean that one size fits all very well.

00:45:21 Carol Merton: Our current city operations and governance processes recognize and allow for variances that occur if there is supporting documentation and legislation to account for this, and in some of our boards, including police services boards, we have received correspondence around the terms and timeframes.

00:45:44 Carol Merton: Staff time commitment provided in the previous report was one of the reasons sparking the review and recommendations of change in communities and committee structure, not the only one, but one of.

00:45:57 Carol Merton: This reasoning does not apply to the Owen Sound Police Services Board, since the board has their own recording secretary, distinct from the city human resource pool, creates its own agenda, reports, and minutes.

00:46:12 Carol Merton: This information is then transferred electronically.

00:46:17 Carol Merton: Staff have received feedback also from the police board explaining why the change of terms and the timeframes.

00:46:23 Carol Merton: And the time frame for public members is not ideal.

00:46:27 Carol Merton: City staff do not receive the applicants for public positions.

00:46:34 Carol Merton: Owen Sound Police Service, with the exception of the chair, the Owen Sound Police Services Board operates under the Community Safety and Policing Act, which is distinct from our application process for other committees.

00:46:49 Carol Merton: Appointments are provincial, selected through the Public Appointments Secretariat, and chosen by the Lieutenant Governor and Council.

00:46:59 Carol Merton: Time efficiency and breaking down silos were also some of the reasons identified to prompt a review of the community committee structure.

00:47:09 Carol Merton: Amalgamation and consolidation of functions does not always equate to timely and effective decision making.

00:47:17 Carol Merton: This is a powerful tool to generate economies of scale, cultural, and reduce redundancies, lower costs.

00:47:26 Carol Merton: But it can lead to operational complexities if you have megasized committees with large portfolios.

00:47:36 Carol Merton: True efficiency gains are not guaranteed by structural change alone.

00:47:42 Carol Merton: They require careful integration, strategic alignment, and effective management of the transition process.

00:47:49 Carol Merton: How will you measure the effectiveness of these changes?

00:47:53 Carol Merton: Whatever changes council determines, so that we can begin with the end result in mind.

00:47:59 Carol Merton: In summary, I believe that looking at the committee structure is important.

00:48:04 Carol Merton: It is timely, and I do support the addition of a finance and governance committee.

00:48:11 Carol Merton: Thank you.

00:48:14 Carol Merton: Thank you, Councillor Dodd.

00:48:15 Travis Dodd: Thank you, Worship.

00:48:16 Travis Dodd: Just to be clear, you're just looking for us to have discussion about the corporate, the committee structure at this time, not about term length or some of those other options.

00:48:24 Travis Dodd: Is that correct?

00:48:29 Ian Boddy: Yes, correct.

00:48:30 Ian Boddy: Yes.

00:48:31 Ian Boddy: So yes, just what the structure, what the committees are going to be.

00:48:35 Ian Boddy: Thank you, Worship.

00:48:36 Travis Dodd: For myself, I look at how our current structure is set up, and then also listening to the public feedback that we had in the report prior, as well as watching those committee minutes.

00:48:50 Travis Dodd: And I will highlight on something that I think we skimmed over a little bit is with the Tom Thomson Art Gallery, there is a financial component of leaving that board separate.

00:49:00 Travis Dodd: That was something that we just kind of skimmed over, and so in that perspective, unless council is willing to sacrifice the forty thousand dollar grant that's coming from the Ontario Arts Council, we do need to leave that committee as a self-standing arm's length committee.

00:49:18 Travis Dodd: So, for my perspective, when we're starting to carve out certain boards from the get-go, it starts limiting what we are looking at in some of these options.

00:49:29 Travis Dodd: Option three, for example, we take out the arts and culture component, and it really starts looking as what can be left there as that vibrant city, or is that comparable to what you'd be using for as community services?

00:49:44 Travis Dodd: So, for me in particular, when we start removing one committee that way, it starts making the options I think feel a little stretched.

00:49:56 Travis Dodd: In my own personal opinion.

00:49:57 Travis Dodd: After hearing the responses from public members, I don't see a big need for a change at this point.

00:50:06 Travis Dodd: I agree that the Tom Thomson Art Gallery should be on its own separate side, alone, just for the financial component.

00:50:14 Travis Dodd: We can't say to the gallery, "We want you to be open longer, do more," but we're also going to sacrifice forty thousand dollars a year budget because we're going to condense you into another committee.

00:50:25 Travis Dodd: I don't see that as fair.

00:50:27 Travis Dodd: I look at Community Services and Operations.

00:50:32 Travis Dodd: There's generally always has been ongoing dialogue within those committees regarding the reports within them.

00:50:39 Travis Dodd: I can think of the community gardens, for example, at Community Services, was something where it was actually impactful for committee and public members to be hands-on in that process.

00:50:50 Travis Dodd: Committee members essentially to.

00:50:51 Travis Dodd: Committee members essentially develop that policy.

00:50:52 Travis Dodd: I think those are really active committees.

00:50:57 Travis Dodd: I will pick on Corporate Services, and I'll just pick on what we just passed this evening.

00:51:02 Travis Dodd: First meeting, nominated the chair, deputy chair, and I wish the director was here, just for transparency, and know that I'm not picking on that committee in any way.

00:51:12 Travis Dodd: But we had first meeting of the year, presentation, appoint the chair, appoint vice chair, four reports received for informational purposes.

00:51:22 Travis Dodd: So when we're talking about how we're going to keep people engaged and get them to feel active, receiving an annual fire report or receiving the 50 to 250 thousand dollar pre-approved capital expenditures, or to receive some of the things that we receive in that committee, even when it's our audited financial statements, it's all past tense.

00:51:43 Travis Dodd: We're all kind of just approving everything that's already been done, so I struggle, and I can understand why we struggle to have public members really striving to sit on that committee when you know they're not being as engaged as potentially other committees.

00:52:01 Travis Dodd: So, from my perspective, I see that as being well.

00:52:05 Travis Dodd: Let's quote to quote say that's the corporate committee that can be boring, and it could be members of council, but something I would like to see from that would be more ad hoc driven because it's under a corporate umbrella.

00:52:22 Travis Dodd: Is that when you say, "Hey, there's this big issue coming on that we have a question about"?

00:52:28 Travis Dodd: Is that when you set up an ad hoc where you dive in, you bring in four people to sit in for three meetings, get their general, get those stakeholders, get the general idea of what their perspective is.

00:52:39 Travis Dodd: So you're still utilizing members of the public in a more defined and strategic way than making them attend a corporate governance finance meeting, where we meet eight times a year, and the vast majority of the time is approving for informational purposes.

00:52:58 Travis Dodd: I just think if we're looking from a corporate lens, I have no problem art gallery on its own, no problem with operations and community services because those do include a lot of engagement, corporate services or governance and finance.

00:53:13 Travis Dodd: I I don't see a problem with the the basics coming to that committee whether it includes service review in there as well.

00:53:22 Travis Dodd: But there needs to be something further from that that helps council and the corporation with certain specific items that might be coming in, and I'm just going to use one off the top of my head.

00:53:35 Travis Dodd: You know, we had a report to Community Services about harbor development.

00:53:41 Travis Dodd: Okay, is that something that rides underneath this committee where you have a meeting, three meetings, four meetings, and it reports back into this as a corporate thing?

00:53:50 Travis Dodd: Climate change.

00:53:51 Travis Dodd: Grab a couple people.

00:53:52 Travis Dodd: You have an identified space for saying we're going to update our climate policy.

00:53:56 Travis Dodd: What does it look like?

00:53:58 Travis Dodd: You get a handful things.

00:53:58 Travis Dodd: It comes back, provides perspective to the corporation.

00:54:01 Travis Dodd: I do find those are the pieces where we're probably going to get the most value out of individuals without making them sit on a committee for a year and maybe not see that same level of engagement.

00:54:15 Travis Dodd: So from my view on that corporate structure, I don't really have too much to say on the vast majority, but I do think there's ways.

00:54:23 Travis Dodd: I don't foresee.

00:54:24 Travis Dodd: I wouldn't want to see changes for the vast majority of the current setup, status quo.

00:54:29 Travis Dodd: I do think corporate services could be changed and done a little bit more effectively and efficiently by including, you know, certain ad-hocs and whether the council of the day sets up kind of their priorities from a corporate lens of what they would like to kind of tackle that year, and that's when these ad-hocs are set up throughout the year.

00:54:51 Travis Dodd: That'd be my perspective.

00:54:54 Travis Dodd: Thank you, Councillor Farmer.

00:54:56 Jon Farmer: Thank you.

00:54:59 Jon Farmer: Through the mayor, I think that it makes sense to rearrange things, as Councillor Don was talking about.

00:55:06 Jon Farmer: Like, do we, like, are things working for the most part or not?

00:55:12 Jon Farmer: The image of rearranging where you keep stuff in your kitchen jumped to mind.

00:55:15 Jon Farmer: Where if we've got to make a change to the shelf with the bowls on it, might as well take the whole thing down and see what we want to put where.

00:55:22 Jon Farmer: And I think that this is a really good time to do that, from a committee perspective, to say let's have our shelves arranged.

00:55:30 Jon Farmer: I'm just going to run with this metaphor with those themes from Vision 2050.

00:55:34 Jon Farmer: We put all the work into that, and as the corporation has moved in my short time at this table to trying to, from my perspective, or the impression I've gotten, to work more across departments and less in silos, the themes are a really easy way to do that.

00:55:52 Jon Farmer: I have concerns that in the way that we've been presented with these options, the scope in our fancy charts for those following along at home, as we move from committee name to strategic plan alignment to scope, the scope is just, to my understanding, just taking pre-existing departments or teams and folding those in under the umbrella.

00:56:21 Jon Farmer: And I think that there's an opportunity here for us to be more creative than that, and to say like, what if I use option four as an example?

00:56:31 Jon Farmer: For safety and sustainability, parks and open space and trails make a lot of sense.

00:56:37 Jon Farmer: That also, to me, there will be times when items or projects under parks and open space and trails would also be implicated in a vibrant and an engaged community, or in a development and mobility committee.

00:56:53 Jon Farmer: And so I'd like to see if we are anticipating more like a subsequent report.

00:57:00 Jon Farmer: I'd like to see a further dissolution of our siloed kind of approach across departments to say what does it really mean to have a green city or a city that moves, and how do people need to move through both the design of the roads that would currently go to operations, but also the along trail networks that would currently sit with community services, and yeah, and I think that any if we're honestly going to lean into the Vision 2050, I'd like to see that change reflected.

00:57:38 Jon Farmer: I also, as we're thinking about this and so many other proposals reducing the number of public seats at the table, I may just have the butchering on a bone here, but the idea that we are suddenly struggling to get more applicants.

00:57:59 Jon Farmer: I, looking back with the clerks, were kind enough to pass along the numbers back to 2013, and in then there are patterns.

00:58:09 Jon Farmer: With like this year, we only had three extra people to choose from, but we were filling ten vacancies.

00:58:15 Jon Farmer: We had three extra last year.

00:58:16 Jon Farmer: We had eight additional people above the ten that we needed.

00:58:19 Jon Farmer: The two years before that, there were fifteen additional people that we didn't get to say yes to who applied to be on a city committee, and that was when we had six vacancies in 2024 and twenty-one vacancies in 2023.

00:58:38 Jon Farmer: But we had thirty-six people apply, and going back even to 2015, which I think was the first year that the reduction from fourteen committees to seven happened.

00:58:48 Jon Farmer: Even there, there were twenty-eight vacancies. 28 vacancies and 44 applicants, and there have been a couple of years where there were not enough people.

00:58:57 Jon Farmer: But as we, if we're talking about recruitment as a reason to reduce or recruitment challenges as a reason to reduce the amount of space that we make for those public voices and opportunities for public feedback, I think that it's worth really looking at those numbers and to ask what the difference is between a recruitment challenge and a retention problem.

00:59:17 Jon Farmer: Because every time we lose someone because they didn't feel engaged or respected, or they were confused and felt over their heads, and so they left because it was uncomfortable, we now have someone else in the community talking to their friends and families about all the reasons that it wasn't worth their time to, or it was overwhelming to apply and to sit on a committee.

00:59:37 Jon Farmer: And we can put as many ads into LinkedIn as we want.

00:59:40 Jon Farmer: If there are people out there who have negative experiences, I'm sure the business owners around the table could attest to that.

00:59:48 Jon Farmer: Satisfied customers are our best advertisement, and I don't, I can't support reducing the number of positions for community members because we've already done that on this term.

01:00:02 Jon Farmer: We've concluded the Vision 2050 survey, we've dissolved and uploaded the accessibility committee, and some of I can't help but think that some of those metrics where we talk even here where we're comparing how many meetings and how many spaces.

01:00:21 Jon Farmer: I'd love some additional information about whether the baseline is as of this year or as of the start of this council term, because from where I'm sitting, we've already reduced the number of meetings, we've reduced the number of spaces for public input, and I'm uncomfortable with that.

01:00:35 Jon Farmer: I think that transparency is helpful, but also that the more people who we have who understand how the city works, the fewer angry people we have commenting unopposed in the public spaces of our various social media, and that there's a benefit to that.

01:00:53 Jon Farmer: I, as we, okay, yeah, I guess just as we're talking about only the structure, I would have some other feedback for like how we include people in those spaces.

01:01:08 Jon Farmer: But I can't personally imagine right now voting for an option that would reduce public input.

01:01:16 Jon Farmer: Although I would love to have maybe a conversation thinking about especially if corporate services receives a lot of information for or reports for information, but also in my experience over the last few years, it's not uncommon for them to not have or for that portfolio to not have sufficient items for a robust agenda, and to cancel a meeting, that if we, or if as staff are looking at the scope line of these options, to also think about where, like how we make sure that the committees that cancel more meetings, or that where there's not as frequency in the annual flow for certain types of reports, like let's spread those out more if we can within those themes, and I'm also really want to maintain a manageable mandate and scope because certainly the conversation that I was in, community services folks were very clear that for that committee that has such a huge scope from cemeteries and trails to planning and development and tourism, that that we heard from a member who said I'm interested in what I'm interested in, and I'm the other stuff I don't get.

01:02:01 Jon Farmer: And I don't want to get, and if we can maintain enough of a focus in the along the themes, I think the themes also give us the solution or the problem or question based focus for those committees where people can sign up and say, "I'm interested in a city that moves."

01:02:45 Jon Farmer: "I want to have conversations about how we get people moving more safely," and that's different than I want to specifically have input to the transportation plan.

01:02:53 Jon Farmer: Like, that broader theme gives you a larger question that I think allows for more robust engagement, and that's probably enough for now.

01:03:03 Jon Farmer: Thank you, Deputy Mayor Greig.

01:03:12 Scott Greig: Okay, well, let me start off with numbers, because I'm going to start off with—I've said it before.

01:03:18 Scott Greig: I think a budget and finance committee is an important element to the corporation to consider.

01:03:24 Scott Greig: But here's something our comparators are at across Grey County.

01:03:29 Scott Greig: So per hundred thousand dollars of assessment, Grey Highlands tax rate is eight hundred and forty-one dollars and eighty-nine cents per hundred thousand.

01:03:36 Scott Greig: Meaford nine hundred ninety-four dollars and sixty-two cents.

01:03:38 Scott Greig: Great Georgian Bluffs two hundred and seven dollars and forty-five cents.

01:03:48 Scott Greig: West Grey nine hundred and seventeen dollars and six pennies.

01:03:50 Scott Greig: Town of Blue Mountains is four hundred and twenty-four dollars and seventeen cents.

01:03:51 Scott Greig: How do they do it?

01:03:52 Scott Greig: Must be growth.

01:03:53 Scott Greig: Owen Sound one thousand one hundred and twenty-five dollars and seventy-eight cents.

01:03:57 Scott Greig: Southgate one thousand and forty-seven dollars and eighty-two cents, and Owen Sound one thousand four hundred and thirty dollars.

01:04:06 Scott Greig: So as you can see, that's the tax rate and how we compare to our other municipalities within Grey County.

01:04:08 Scott Greig: I've left Chatsworth.

01:04:09 Scott Greig: They don't have their twenty-five tax rates posted yet.

01:04:10 Scott Greig: I think it's very difficult at times on committees.

01:04:12 Scott Greig: We can advocate for certain elements, certain items, certain projects.

01:04:31 Scott Greig: The strength of a budget committee is facilitating enhanced oversight, knowledge of financial position, and the resources available to the corporation to discharge a variety of different ideas and projects.

01:04:41 Scott Greig: And that's not saying that none of them are great ideas.

01:04:42 Scott Greig: They're maybe all great ideas.

01:04:43 Scott Greig: It's what you can afford.

01:04:44 Scott Greig: So, I think the strength of a budget and finance committee starts there in enhancing our understanding of exactly where we are financially.

01:04:47 Scott Greig: A year ago, last May, we passed the tender award for Ninth Avenue and Sixth Street.

01:04:52 Scott Greig: That was a one point four million dollars surplus that we ran in the water component of that construction.

01:05:21 Scott Greig: And it's one thing for the report to say, "Well, that one point four million dollars just went into reserves," but that doesn't tell you what that means.

01:05:29 Scott Greig: It tells you where the money went, doesn't tell you what it means.

01:05:31 Scott Greig: And that's the rule for enhanced scrutiny within a specific committee.

01:05:33 Scott Greig: We just spoke about Grey Road Seventeen B tonight.

01:05:34 Scott Greig: That's an example that while the county walked away next year from a budget committee, I think there were credible reasons for doing so after the past year.

01:05:55 Scott Greig: But Grey Road Seventeen is a fine example where it got more scrutiny because there was a budget committee, and it got pulled out of a fifteen hundred page document for further reporting back on.

01:06:08 Scott Greig: And then two point one million dollars of potential savings were then realized to be reallocated for a variety of other needs through the corporation.

01:06:19 Scott Greig: We're all underfunded, so I think the more scrutiny and the more enhanced oversight that it could generate is important.

01:06:28 Scott Greig: I think it also helps facilitate the creation of strong mayor budgets moving forward.

01:06:33 Scott Greig: Last year was a learning curve, and I compliment the mayor in meeting with all of us and trying to, you know, gain insights or comments, ideas from all of us, and then coordinate that into the construction.

01:06:42 Scott Greig: But I think it's a benefit if it went through the year through a committee as well.

01:06:49 Scott Greig: I think there's certain elements within on the spreadsheet here that don't even necessarily have to be contained within Information Technology.

01:06:59 Scott Greig: I don't know.

01:07:05 Scott Greig: We've had three, maybe four council meetings where we have not had a report on the agenda before going right to the county report, the verbal report, and going into the consent agenda.

01:07:15 Scott Greig: We've had some light agendas in terms of reports here.

01:07:21 Scott Greig: We've had some very light agendas at committee level the last six months or canceled agendas because there hasn't been the material.

01:07:31 Scott Greig: So I think on paper where it looks like there's a lot, there's certain elements there.

01:07:33 Scott Greig: I'm looking at option four right now.

01:07:34 Scott Greig: I agree with Councilor Dawes' comments.

01:07:42 Scott Greig: The art gallery needs to stand alone for different reasons, being partly that funding specific to it being a standalone committee, it has also a unique, sincere type of different interest.

01:07:57 Scott Greig: I think for people concerned with the success of the gallery, there are I think some reports that while they look on the option for committee structure, they may just go right to a committee.

01:08:07 Scott Greig: They could go to council.

01:08:08 Scott Greig: I think we've just realized the last three council meetings, or maybe four.

01:08:17 Scott Greig: They could certainly go to council.

01:08:24 Scott Greig: There's open room for them, and perhaps if you have standing committees, perhaps the minutes from standing committees go right to one meeting a month is a council meeting, and the next, the second meeting in the month is the committee of the whole meeting, and the committee of the whole entertains different reports and different discussion, but your standing committee minutes proceed right to council than the one made of the month.

01:08:36 Scott Greig: That's just an idea.

01:08:37 Scott Greig: It's it's something that's done elsewhere.

01:08:39 Scott Greig: It's not advocating that it's right or wrong.

01:08:56 Scott Greig: I'm not sure how much I think the mayor sitting ex officio improves our current structure right now.

01:09:05 Scott Greig: I think our current structure of four councilors and five public members is excellent.

01:09:07 Scott Greig: I wouldn't agree with going to six on your specific committees.

01:09:09 Scott Greig: I think it actually can lead to more frustration if you have some ideas that come forward, but they're not actually implemented or approved by council for reasons that maybe financial or the resources just aren't there.

01:09:16 Scott Greig: I think time is vital.

01:09:17 Scott Greig: I'm not advocating to waste anyone's time.

01:09:18 Scott Greig: There's committee meetings of 30 minutes.

01:09:40 Scott Greig: That's that's hard to demonstrate as valuable for people to come and show up, whether it's staff or public members or council or committee members.

01:09:48 Scott Greig: I think you've got to have a fairly robust agenda.

01:09:52 Scott Greig: Some of those public comments are very valid and I think actually speak to our rules as chairs in terms of improving the process, taking it upon ourselves to make sure that our public members feel engaged, that they're welcomed, that they are they can go right to the chair with questions.

01:10:01 Scott Greig: We will be the conduit.

01:10:02 Scott Greig: We will facilitate with staff.

01:10:03 Scott Greig: We'll get that answer for them.

01:10:04 Scott Greig: That's part of the role of the chair, as well as I think reporting back.

01:10:21 Scott Greig: So when minutes come back from council, instead of just receiving it, if there was some discussion, if there was some changes, we should be informing those public members so that it's not just up to them reading the Sun Times if something changed with the minutes that went forward.

01:10:31 Scott Greig: So I think we can own some of that ourselves.

01:10:41 Scott Greig: I would be an advocate for a specific governance and finance committee.

01:10:50 Scott Greig: Some of those elements, I think, of governance can get severed out, probably go a little sideways, and an advocate of maintaining the art galleries as standalone.

01:11:01 Scott Greig: Between that, I think two standing committees with the opportunity to realize we have opportunity to bring reports straight to committee of the whole.

01:11:10 Scott Greig: And as demonstrated in the last three council meetings, we haven't had any reports.

01:11:12 Scott Greig: So I think that sits there.

01:11:17 Scott Greig: It looks like a lot on the sheet there, but I don't think in actuality it's always maybe going to look that way.

01:11:26 Scott Greig: There may be fire services reports that just go committee of the whole on a Monday night.

01:11:29 Scott Greig: So those be my comments at this time, and I'm certainly supportive of the opportunity to listen to everyone's insights and then have it come back and perhaps a month March twenty third or something for us to realize what we do moving forward.

01:11:39 Scott Greig: Thanks.

01:11:39 Scott Greig: Thank you, Councillor Kepkii.

01:11:40 Scott Greig: Thank you, Worship.

01:11:40 Scott Greig: Other than things that have already been said, I'll just add a few more comments.

01:11:55 Melanie Middlebro: I'm not in favor of the art gallery being absorbed into another committee, specifically because the gallery has very engaged, dedicated, specific members that have an interest of the gallery, interest of the programs, and an interest of helping promote the gallery and events and things that take place at the gallery.

01:12:05 Melanie Middlebro: So I'm not in favor of separating that one or adding that one into another committee.

01:12:07 Melanie Middlebro: The governance and finance committee.

01:12:10 Melanie Middlebro: Yes, I think there is a need for specific attention to that.

01:12:37 Melanie Middlebro: However, my biggest concern is staff and council now having eight months of the year where you have three consecutive meetings on a Monday, Tuesday, Monday, and there doesn't seem to be a break in between for staff particularly.

01:12:46 Melanie Middlebro: And also the committee of the whole system.

01:13:01 Melanie Middlebro: I've spoke on it before, and I know how it can delay some processes if it's approved at committee of the whole.

01:13:08 Melanie Middlebro: Has to wait for.

01:13:08 Melanie Middlebro: The committee of the whole has to wait for another week to come back to council, or maybe even more than one week to come back to council for approval.

01:13:15 Melanie Middlebro: But I just don't think that I don't feel that it's a really good way of progressing.

01:13:24 Melanie Middlebro: I have a great concern for the number of staff that are going to have to attend each one of these committees, and I just think, even though the numbers show that it's less, I don't believe that it will be less.

01:13:33 Melanie Middlebro: Carol, sorry, Councillor Merton has already spoke to Police Services Board, so I won't belabor that any more.

01:13:47 Melanie Middlebro: Other than I disagree with the reduction of the number of members on that committee, and at this point, I guess that's enough said for me.

01:13:56 Melanie Middlebro: You get to the end of the line and everything's been said.

01:14:03 Brock Hamley: But I think kind of the one thing that kind of, as we sat through the public members giving their feedback on this, the one thing that kind of really jumped out at me was there's maybe not really a structural problem with the committees, more as there's a problem with the way that the committees operate at times.

01:14:12 Brock Hamley: Right?

01:14:27 Brock Hamley: We do our little onboarding sessions there, and it takes about fifteen minutes at the first meeting that they're at a little who's who in the zoo, and then you never you never come back to topics like it's easy for us to speak to items that come up just because we're we're in this building once a week between council and committee, so we familiarize ourselves with so much.

01:14:36 Brock Hamley: They don't get that.

01:14:56 Brock Hamley: So I think having some sort of continuous education on the committee meetings is going to be very critical to making people feel valued and improve the committees.

01:15:05 Brock Hamley: Okay, as Brock just said, most has been said.

01:15:07 Brock Hamley: So I agree a lot with Travis's comments.

01:15:08 Brock Hamley: I feel like corporate services is definitely an issue with the agendas.

01:15:10 Brock Hamley: I feel like if we can kind of tweak what we're already doing and making that better.

01:15:45 Melanie Middlebro: And if we kind of dissolve corporate services into the governance and finance committee for council, and I feel like that is a good place to kind of pick up the service review aspect of what we've been doing with the corporation, and using that time to really deep dive into, you know, service levels and where we have room to make changes that will affect the budget.

01:15:57 Melanie Middlebro: I feel like that's a good place, and also the asset management could also be rolled into that as well.

01:16:23 Melanie Middlebro: To be able to have more time to do a deeper dive into the capital and operating budgets, I feel like you know we get one day kind of a year to come in here and it's you know reviewing six hundred pages of capital projects, and it's really tough to get that all done.

01:16:32 Melanie Middlebro: So I would appreciate more time on budgetary issues.

01:16:34 Melanie Middlebro: I feel like anything that is for information purposes should just go straight to council on the consent agenda.

01:16:36 Melanie Middlebro: Why are we wasting people's time when there's no discussion to be had?

01:16:38 Melanie Middlebro: So I think that that is a good idea.

01:16:44 Melanie Middlebro: I think reducing the public member commitment to the two years is vital.

01:16:53 Melanie Middlebro: I remember years ago looking at you know committees and that's coming okay.

01:16:55 Melanie Middlebro: So as far as structure, I'm okay with leaving the Tom on its own to keep that funding in place.

01:17:01 Melanie Middlebro: I feel like that's crucial.

01:17:02 Melanie Middlebro: There's tons of stuff to cover at Community Services.

01:17:07 Melanie Middlebro: I feel like that's a good committee and gets lots of discussion and feedback.

01:17:11 Melanie Middlebro: Operations I've never sat on, so I don't have a lot to comment on that.

01:17:17 Melanie Middlebro: But definitely moving more of the Corporate Services into the governance and budget side.

01:17:20 Melanie Middlebro: I would be in favor of.

01:17:23 Melanie Middlebro: Okay, so listening to everybody and hearing the ideas, I think there's a bit of a consensus.

01:17:29 Melanie Middlebro: But got a couple of ideas.

01:17:31 Melanie Middlebro: I was looking at what was option three in there, which was I think three committees, except one of them was taking sort of like-minded things from Operations and Parks, like some of the outdoor things, and putting them together.

01:17:48 Ian Boddy: And I'm not sure.

01:17:50 Ian Boddy: What I'm hearing basically is I think there's an interest in keeping Community Services committee, Operations committee, kind of as is.

01:17:56 Ian Boddy: Tom Thomson Art Gallery committee as is, and then transition.

01:18:01 Ian Boddy: And then transitioning probably Corporate Services Service Review, which is an ad hoc.

01:18:09 Ian Boddy: The intention was to run for the term, but there's probably going to be things for it to do, and turn it into a Governance and Finance committee.

01:18:22 Ian Boddy: With strong mayor, it turns everything on its ear a little bit.

01:18:27 Ian Boddy: But having some committee that is made up of Councillors, made up Mayor, Deputy Mayor, Councillors, makes sense to me to be able to review those things in a slightly smaller forum than at a City Council meeting, where often we've got so much on the plate.

01:19:13 Ian Boddy: So it makes sense to me that there is a Governance and Finance committee that is not made up of public members, but made up with Councillors.

01:19:22 Ian Boddy: Up with Councillors, so I think I'm probably just about in line with Travis at the moment.

01:19:30 Ian Boddy: Listening to some of the ideas that John's talking about, though, is how do you get and and Carol, how do you get more of that public input?

01:19:39 Ian Boddy: And and I think what we need to do is change the bylaw to allow faster and more nimble ad hoc or task forces.

01:19:41 Ian Boddy: If we want to add an ad hoc, by the time we go out and advertise and attract people, it's two months later, easily two months later.

01:20:05 Ian Boddy: Looking at the strategic plan, there's different things in there that the whole strategic plan really is built around trying to be able to get feedback from people.

01:20:15 Ian Boddy: And yeah, you can put something on a questionnaire, run a survey, or try and put together a full committee.

01:20:27 Ian Boddy: But it seems to me there's issues that come up on every area, whether it be finance, whether it be operations, whether it be committee, whether it be climate change, whether it be looking at Ninth Avenue project.

01:20:43 Ian Boddy: That it makes sense to be able to put an ad hoc committee of a couple of Council members with a couple of public members, not necessarily to have to advertise to attract people's interest, but to reach out to people that you know have some expertise, and opinions, and have formed some ideas around stuff that they can help you on those specific areas.

01:21:04 Ian Boddy: Call them in, and it might be a one meeting, it might be a three meeting, it might be, you know, meeting for a year.

01:21:10 Ian Boddy: But it's an ad hoc that is very select, purpose-driven.

01:21:12 Ian Boddy: That would inform the other committees and inform Council and be more flexible.

01:21:13 Ian Boddy: So it would take some flexibility being built into the into the committee and board's bylaw.

01:21:15 Ian Boddy: Like right now, I think the Service Review is an ad hoc, but it's actually been written into the bylaw.

01:21:23 Ian Boddy: So we had to change the whole bylaw to be able to put that in for one year.

01:21:48 Ian Boddy: I'd like to see that bylaw have something that has got a structure that allows future councils to be able to do something more rapidly in a smaller form, in a sense to collect expertise as needed.

01:21:58 Ian Boddy: On the on the topics going forward.

01:22:09 Ian Boddy: And I really am picking up that there's a consensus, otherwise, to leave Community Services, leave Operations, leave Tom Thomson, and transition Corporate Services and Service Review to a Governance and Finance committee.

01:22:19 Ian Boddy: Thoughts on that, Mr. Farmer.

01:22:19 Ian Boddy: Through the Mayor, I maybe echoing my earlier remarks.

01:22:32 Jon Farmer: I don't know how if we leave the current structure, which is aligned more and correct me if I'm wrong, but more by the internal organizational structure of the Corporation of the City of Owen Sound than it is by all of the work areas and the things that fall under our responsibility, that we lose the opportunity then to have like what was it Operations in December that a member of the public came and talked about pedestrian infrastructure and and yeah buttons and and all of that and I see that conversation as also being tied to a lot of the stuff that we talk about at Community Services in terms of the planning and what we like how we define neighborhoods and I don't know how if we keep things structured by the org chart we have space to come up with the best possible solutions and have the best possible conversations that engage the people who would be interested in those things.

01:23:18 Jon Farmer: I agree with the number of committees currently working for me, but I'm really wary of not taking this next step towards breaking down those silos to have more engaging conversations.

01:23:59 Jon Farmer: I'm also I've got a historical question too, but if I may, so before the change in two thousand and fifteen, there was a Financial Advisory Committee, and I'm curious for the folks who were here at that time.

01:24:14 Jon Farmer: Like it, it did have four members of the public, but if folks can cast their minds back a decade, what was different about that Financial Advisory Committee compared to the scope of Corporate Services, and maybe compared to what's being proposed, other than the landscape of strong mayor powers totally scrambling our ability to do anything not to the favor of the mayor.

01:24:24 Jon Farmer: Do you remember draft?

01:24:24 Jon Farmer: Thank you, Worship.

01:24:25 Jon Farmer: I'll try on that second one.

01:24:26 Jon Farmer: I was going to go back to the first one.

01:24:40 Travis Dodd: You noted that you know about the question with regarding that came up from Operations about safety and planning, and I'm just wondering is that that we need to have, you know, I'm just thinking out loud.

01:24:50 Travis Dodd: Is it more so that when that report is written, that it should go through a secondary process instead of just saying this is coming from the director or the director of Operations to staff?

01:24:52 Travis Dodd: Should it have a flow through through senior management as a whole, where they say, hey, here's a comment from X, Y, Z, which I'm sure they already do.

01:25:18 Travis Dodd: When Planning says, yes, I see that we're going to go in and comment about why it's this way, but I'm just unsure if that's something rather than changing the committee structure on that side, if it could just be more as an operational side.

01:25:28 Travis Dodd: If there's things that you feel that are being only answered in one silo, you know how can staff respond to that more effectively?

01:25:30 Travis Dodd: I guess like how does it go through another window?

01:25:46 Travis Dodd: So that is a question about regarding that came to Operations to ensure that Pam had an opportunity to provide feedback on what it is from her perspective.

01:25:55 Travis Dodd: And I'm not sure I didn't I'm not on Operations I didn't see that deputation, but I'm just wondering if there was if there be something a little more that just through an operational change internally if that could actually happen.

01:26:04 Travis Dodd: Second side of that Financial Advisor Committee was just essentially Corporate except Corporate got added on to.

01:26:06 Travis Dodd: There used to be a standalone Fire Service Committee that got dissolved and got rolled into Corporate.

01:26:08 Travis Dodd: Bylaw used to be a standalone committee got rolled into Corporate.

01:26:10 Travis Dodd: So Financial Advisory Committee would been the same thing.

01:26:30 Travis Dodd: I think we might have met four times a year, think might have been four or five times a year or six times maybe.

01:26:36 Travis Dodd: I think it was bi-monthly, or that could have been Fire.

01:26:37 Travis Dodd: I can't recall this time, but essentially all it was was just kind of condensing the ones that were kind of similar.

01:26:46 Travis Dodd: But that financial advisor committee would have done the same thing, looking at over the audited financials, tenders, that kind of thing, similar to what we're currently doing.

01:26:56 Travis Dodd: They just added the fire services committee.

01:26:57 Travis Dodd: I think I sat on the fire services committee for one or two years, and I don't know.

01:27:05 Travis Dodd: Yeah, I don't know how much we really got dug in deep there, so that's why it was kind of more condensed.

01:27:11 Travis Dodd: Through the mayor, I guess.

01:27:12 Travis Dodd: To there is an element.

01:27:13 Travis Dodd: Yeah, I'm picking up what Councillor Dodd said there.

01:27:17 Jon Farmer: I think there is an element that if we're if we want Vision Twenty Fifty and the themes that are laid out there, to guide the conversation, part of that is an internal cultural and operational difference to get people thinking about not just what does this say for a road cross section, but how does that then incorporate the age-friendly community stuff and all of these other ideas.

01:27:43 Jon Farmer: And I, I wonder too if that, if the wider appetite is to, to not change things up too much, but to also recognize that how we do things needs to, to shift.

01:27:53 Jon Farmer: That to pick up Councillor Hamley's idea of ongoing education.

01:28:03 Jon Farmer: That, that's also then an opportunity to produce materials and video recordings of presentations that can inform all of the committees around transportation and, yeah. all of those all those various things that can then also maybe be used as assets in in communication with the the community more widely, so that when people say, "How come you don't do this thing?"

01:28:28 Jon Farmer: or when I listen to the open line and somebody says, "I just heard that you that the city municipality doesn't pay for recycling anymore," that that there's a place to direct people more easily when those conversations come up.

01:28:41 Jon Farmer: But I I don't know how that then sits with and and sorry, this is also connecting to that idea of staff time at meetings because it it is much easier to say this isn't the Director of Community Services committee because it's operations, so like the other department like department leads and directors can go home.

01:28:51 Jon Farmer: But I I see that being easier from the staff time perspective.

01:29:03 Jon Farmer: I also wonder if even in what we've seen is these different options, that we might not need to have every director at every meeting, depending on what's on the agenda, and that having more flexibility, if we are, if folks will still entertain the idea of wider themes guiding the committee names and and strategic plan alignments, that that might also allow for more flexibility from leadership to say who needs to be here and who doesn't, so that we aren't in a position that we've seen ourselves in before, where someone comes to a meeting because they might have a report in the consent agenda from a staff perspective, and they sit through a three hour meeting and don't have to present anything, and that that's an operational change that would maybe mirror what we do for consultants, where folks jump onto to teams if there's a particular question or something they need to provide feedback on, without needing to dedicate. staff time in three-hour increments through all of those those meetings, but I'm going to stop there too.

01:29:54 Jon Farmer: I'm not going to let you talk.

01:29:56 Jon Farmer: I'm sorry, not going to let you stop just for a second.

01:30:01 Jon Farmer: So I got branded up with option three.

01:30:21 Ian Boddy: As you look at the scopes under Infrastructure and Sustainability and Vibrant Safe committee, is that what you're talking about?

01:30:30 Ian Boddy: Through and to the mayor, I option three was not my preference.

01:30:37 Jon Farmer: If we were only questioning or examining those those three, I liked option four better because I think that it lets us break out in a way that I think is more manageable.

01:30:50 Jon Farmer: Really, hearing that committee feedback around let's make sure that mandates are enough of what I'm interested in and feel capable to speak about that I'm not. that as a committee member.

01:30:59 Jon Farmer: We're not asking people to be outside of their depth or really in in that kind of discomfort zone.

01:31:07 Jon Farmer: I liked this one better because I think that that the the general themes.

01:31:09 Jon Farmer: We have seven themes in the strat plan, and it's hard to to lump them effectively.

01:31:21 Jon Farmer: But I think that certainly for putting together city building in a city that moves, that those themes are in better alignment than what we saw as further folding things in option three, or that the idea that a prosperous city and celebrating and embracing culture and fostering respectful relationships.

01:31:39 Jon Farmer: I think of that as collecting all the network building things, and whether that's on a cultural level or a business or a tourism perspective, and that safe city and green and resilient city to me talks to the infrastructure and. how we're managing a lot of that as well.

01:31:48 Jon Farmer: So I I liked this option better for not putting too many oranges in with the bananas because they didn't quite fit with the apples.

01:31:50 Jon Farmer: But we only had two bins.

01:32:06 Jon Farmer: And but here too, that like looking at this is where I I really would love to see an update to the way that senior management time is allocated to committees.

01:32:18 Jon Farmer: If we are changing these in these ways, so the the short answer is no, not really for option three.

01:32:24 Jon Farmer: More in the direction of option four to have a manageable mandate.

01:32:29 Ian Boddy: I was just thinking, given that there seemed to be a consensus that we would go with two committees plus Tom Thomson plus governance, that's why I went to three that had the two committees that had things broken out.

01:32:38 Ian Boddy: But any other comments?

01:32:39 Ian Boddy: Go ahead.

01:32:39 Ian Boddy: Just one thing I hadn't noted earlier.

01:32:41 Ian Boddy: Even on the, if we were to strike a governance and finance, it may not meet every month.

01:32:43 Ian Boddy: Like it shows here that it's monthly, but I don't want to get into.

01:32:44 Scott Greig: I'm a.

01:32:45 Scott Greig: I would be happy with two main pillar committees.

01:32:48 Scott Greig: The Tom Thomson, a budgetary finance.

01:32:51 Scott Greig: I don't want to get into telling staff on each what part of their department should be integrated.

01:32:58 Scott Greig: I'd rather probably allow staff that latitude to exercise that decision making and and bring it back with the next report.

01:33:06 Scott Greig: Like they're the they're the most competent people to decide on where they think it should should be situated.

01:33:19 Scott Greig: And even if that column grows a little bit.

01:33:39 Scott Greig: It doesn't mean that there's going to be nine different reports representing every bullet go forward for a report every month because we again we're underutilizing committee of the whole.

01:33:49 Scott Greig: I think it's been demonstrated we haven't had any reports, so there is there's that opportunity.

01:34:00 Scott Greig: And even though with two main pillar committees, if staff come back and they take like the development and mobility and and they take components of it and or they shuffle it around a little bit and just just display it in in a different terminology or different actions, I I'd be happy leaving that discretion with staff to do as opposed to me being like well I think roads and sidewalks we could put it under under the safety and sustainability, but I'll take the trails and slice it back over to committee.

01:34:21 Scott Greig: I'd rather staff do that that work, and I'd be happy with the option four.

01:34:26 Scott Greig: It's a four committee structure, but its governance is two main committees, and it's Tom Thomson.

01:34:32 Scott Greig: So to be clear, so you would leave it as a corporate, sorry, community services into operations with areas of responsibility.

01:34:42 Scott Greig: I'd be comfortable with that, but I think of the City of Guelph.

01:35:17 Scott Greig: I think has a template, and they just their terminology is different, and staff are the ones working with their peers in the municipal.

01:35:26 Scott Greig: With their peers in municipal environments, and can probably shake that tree for better ideas than me just dictating as to what I think is probably the the best.

01:35:28 Scott Greig: But there's all sorts of different models.

01:35:29 Scott Greig: I think that that staff see in in comparable communities.

01:35:40 Scott Greig: Now, Guelph's quite larger than us, but essentially they do place a lot of the same items or within the same buckets.

01:35:51 Ian Boddy: And then leaving it as is as we are doing now, that staff would sort of pick which bucket they would drop it into to be considered.

01:35:58 Ian Boddy: It's kind of what you're indicating.

01:35:59 Ian Boddy: Okay, Councillor Caputo.

01:36:00 Melanie Middlebro: Thank you, Your Worship.

01:36:01 Melanie Middlebro: I wanted to talk about community organizations.

01:36:02 Melanie Middlebro: Is that appropriate to talk to now?

01:36:03 Melanie Middlebro: You're.

01:36:04 Melanie Middlebro: I don't know what you mean.

01:36:12 Melanie Middlebro: I'll carry on then.

01:36:12 Melanie Middlebro: I'm talking about the Onondaga Community Foundation.

01:36:13 Melanie Middlebro: Talking about the onsite community fund and council appointment to that fund.

01:36:15 Melanie Middlebro: No, not now.

01:36:16 Melanie Middlebro: We're talking about the structure of our committees.

01:36:17 Melanie Middlebro: But my mind didn't go there, Marion.

01:36:19 Melanie Middlebro: Yeah, yeah.

01:36:19 Melanie Middlebro: Can we bring it up after?

01:36:22 Ian Boddy: Because I think it's just slightly different enough that we'll have a look at it.

01:36:28 Ian Boddy: Councillor Merton.

01:36:28 Ian Boddy: Through you, Mayor.

01:36:39 Ian Boddy: My understanding is that the documents and what's incorporated within each suggestion and the options are what staff is recommending as the fit.

01:37:12 Carol Merton: My understanding is they've done their homework, and this is what they are bringing forward as their recommendation for us to consider in the committees underneath each committee.

01:37:21 Carol Merton: I think certainly as I'm listening to the conversation, I'm hearing at least three different streams.

01:37:23 Carol Merton: One is the structural.

01:37:24 Carol Merton: You know, how many committees do we want, and what do we want within those committees as composition?

01:37:46 Carol Merton: The comment about alignment with the strategic plan and how does that fit came up.

01:37:52 Carol Merton: So that's one stream that I'm seeing.

01:37:56 Carol Merton: The other is to Councillor Hamley's comment about engaging the public, and that's another stream that I think it's not just the structure.

01:38:05 Carol Merton: As we move through this, we want to work on a stream where we work on engagement strategies for people to be involved and valued.

01:38:07 Carol Merton: Changing the building doesn't necessarily mean that the people who work in the building are happy.

01:38:09 Carol Merton: So that's another stream.

01:38:10 Carol Merton: The other is the comment about the functional report flow.

01:38:14 Carol Merton: Where do reports really need to go?

01:38:17 Carol Merton: And we've had some conversation about committee of the whole versus.

01:38:37 Carol Merton: So as we move forward, these are other components that I would like to see brought back in addition to the structural component, to make sure that at the end of the day we have the maximum opportunity to be successful with this potential change in the future.

01:38:46 Carol Merton: Thank you.

01:38:47 Carol Merton: Thanks.

01:38:47 Carol Merton: Okay, so I think we're.

01:38:48 Carol Merton: I'm looking for a motion to get a report back on what it appears the consensus is.

01:38:51 Carol Merton: Also, Dodd.

01:38:53 Carol Merton: Thank you, Worship.

01:38:55 Carol Merton: And I'm not sure what.

01:38:57 Carol Merton: Are we looking for a motion that's more defined?

01:39:21 Travis Dodd: Are we looking for a motion from staff of the discussion for us to have a discussion more fully at the next meeting?

01:39:33 Travis Dodd: I heard Scott make a comment about saying he wanted to have something to come back on March 23rd.

01:39:36 Travis Dodd: For me, if I've got the floor, which I do, woohoo!

01:39:38 Travis Dodd: I would be narrowing it in.

01:39:43 Travis Dodd: I do have some concerns with option four, and not only based off of just, I agree with what you're saying.

01:39:57 Travis Dodd: But when I look at one of the reasons why we were talking about doing a committee change was that it was staff time.

01:40:04 Travis Dodd: Well, there was a lot of staff time being applied.

01:40:06 Travis Dodd: And when I look at option four, you're going to have Lara come to safety and sustainability for wastewater and waste management.

01:40:14 Travis Dodd: You're going to have her come back again for development and mobility committee because she's going to have to be there for roads and sidewalks as well as winter maintenance and transit.

01:40:21 Travis Dodd: Pam, or Director Coulter, is going to be coming in for options vibrant and engaged city because she's going to have recreational programs, tourism, and that side.

01:40:31 Travis Dodd: She's also going to be jumping back in on the development and mobility committee for planning and heritage and building.

01:40:36 Travis Dodd: And then if we go into what's going on onto safety and sustainability, there's discussions of parks and open spaces and trails.

01:40:46 Travis Dodd: Then we talk about what the Clerk is going to do.

01:40:47 Travis Dodd: The Clerk is going to do governance and finance.

01:40:49 Travis Dodd: Also jump into the safety and sustainability committee, and they will maybe not.

01:40:51 Travis Dodd: But I was going to say communications may fall under their model, but I don't think it does.

01:40:53 Travis Dodd: So we're actually adding another committee that these senior staff are going to be joining.

01:41:04 Travis Dodd: So I think it does go back to say one of the reasons that we opened up this dialogue is saying we're trying because staff can't don't have enough time to get everything that they're trying to do while doing their regular job.

01:41:13 Travis Dodd: But truly, what we're doing is basically throwing them all onto a second committee.

01:41:24 Travis Dodd: Even the director, Aidan, will be sitting on governance and finance, but then she would actually be running over into the other side of safety and sustainability, where you have bylaw enforcement, and then again on probably vibrant and engaged because I guess communications would truly fall under her.

01:41:44 Travis Dodd: So it sounds great when we're saying yeah we're going to figure out to make it all line up with more of our strategic plan alignment.

01:41:52 Travis Dodd: But that I think at the same time you have to say that counters the reason why we're doing it was to reduce staff time, or reduce what staff loads were.

01:42:01 Travis Dodd: So in my perspective, I don't like option four because I think like when we looked at option three, option three I looked in there and saw animal control, arts and culture, bylaw, fire, recreational tourism, investment, attraction.

01:42:11 Travis Dodd: So you're going to have Kate, Pam, the Clerk, and the Chief of Fire all sitting in one meeting.

01:42:13 Travis Dodd: I don't know about everyone else.

01:42:14 Travis Dodd: When we talk about Councillor Greg just brought up the fact of our tax dollars.

01:42:27 Travis Dodd: I don't know if the best purpose is to have five directors sitting in one meeting.

01:42:35 Travis Dodd: That doesn't.

01:42:35 Travis Dodd: I just don't.

01:42:36 Travis Dodd: And we could say, well, they don't need to attend.

01:42:38 Travis Dodd: Every single one of them are devoted to their job.

01:42:40 Travis Dodd: Of course, they're going to attend.

01:42:41 Travis Dodd: They're not going to.

01:42:41 Travis Dodd: Of course, they're going to be here.

01:42:43 Travis Dodd: So for me, I don't see that as being more efficient for a corporation.

01:42:47 Travis Dodd: So for me personally, again, I'm not sure what the direction that staff are looking for.

01:42:58 Travis Dodd: Are you just looking to bring back another report in March for us to have another discussion, or are you looking for us to be defined in what we're looking for?

01:43:08 Briana Bloomfield: Through your Worship, I would be looking for a motion to direct staff to report back with draft terms of reference for either a similar model to what we have now with operations, community services, and governance and finance, or this other option three that is in front of you, or option four, if that helps.

01:43:13 Briana Bloomfield: I think I've still got Councillor Dodd and Councillor Hamley, and then Councillor Farmer.

01:43:20 Briana Bloomfield: Okay, thank you, Worship.

01:43:39 Travis Dodd: So I will move the recommendation that we maintain the Tom as a separate committee, that we maintain Community Services and Operations as a separate committee, as almost status quo, and then finally I'd be looking for the Governance and Finance Committee to overtake.

01:44:00 Travis Dodd: I would say corporate services, and I would be looking to include in that some of the budgetary service review, finance of some of those other comments that we did hear from members of council.

01:44:10 Travis Dodd: Sorry.

01:44:19 Travis Dodd: Well, I think we were just talking about just doing the structure, not about the composition yet.

01:44:23 Travis Dodd: Okay.

01:44:23 Travis Dodd: Councillor Farmer.

01:44:24 Travis Dodd: Through, through, through the Mayor, I have no doubt that senior leadership are committed to their jobs.

01:44:36 Jon Farmer: I think that all staff are committed to their jobs, but that doesn't mean showing up everywhere all of the time.

01:44:50 Jon Farmer: And I'm also struggling to consider a motion that talks about structure without also talking about composition, because the specific benefit being proposed by the Governance and Finance Committee is that it would only be that it would only be council and would take place during business hours to alleviate evening staff meetings.

01:44:59 Jon Farmer: So I'm.

01:45:13 Jon Farmer: I would maybe moving an amendment is the easiest thing if there's openness to a friendly amendment.

01:45:25 Jon Farmer: I think that we've heard a variety of perspectives tonight and that that might be things that some of that might be considerations that staff have not played with previously and that if there could be a one or two options presented that synthesize the pros and cons of the variety of perspectives I think that that would give us a that wouldn't unnecessarily narrow the scope immediately and yeah the cleanest thing is probably to just move an amendment to that motion so I would move an amendment to also request a secondary option that synthesizes other parts of the discussion, if that's clear.

01:45:50 Jon Farmer: Okay, so the I'm being told that that is not clear.

01:45:57 Jon Farmer: My understanding of the current motion is that it's to just bring back one potential structure.

01:46:02 Jon Farmer: I would like to amend that motion to add and second option.

01:46:34 Olivia Legate: Sorry, through your worship, there is time involved with putting together terms of reference for each separate committee.

01:46:43 Olivia Legate: So, the more direction I can have on what the model is, the less time that I'm spending sort of guessing what council is looking for.

01:46:45 Olivia Legate: Thank you, Councillor Hamlin.

01:46:46 Olivia Legate: Thank you, Councillor Hamlin.

01:46:52 Briana Bloomfield: I was—I was just going to say—I think we can settle on the structure, and when the report comes back, we can talk about the composition.

01:47:01 Briana Bloomfield: Like, I—I don't—I think you can separate the two.

01:47:03 Brock Hamley: Well, but like, terms of reference is different than composition, is it not, Madam Clerk?

01:47:05 Brock Hamley: Or do you need both?

01:47:06 Brock Hamley: I'm just going to steal that.

01:47:08 Brock Hamley: We're focusing on the motion to amend solely.

01:47:38 Jon Farmer: Through the mayor, having heard from the clerk that the motion was not sufficiently detailed to be useful, I would add then a to also include a draft terms of reference for.

01:48:07 Jon Farmer: To draft terms of reference for, my understanding of the motion is that it was, the three committee structure plus the Tom.

01:48:16 Jon Farmer: That's getting the yes to also include a potential terms of reference, for if.

01:48:18 Jon Farmer: A, I guess that's then a five committee structure because the Tom would be separate.

01:48:20 Jon Farmer: So to update option, to include an option based on option four with the Tom as a standalone, but specifically, guiding committee scope, by the strategic plan theme alignment.

01:48:21 Jon Farmer: No, that's no. It's got to be.

01:48:23 Jon Farmer: It's got to be a motion to, to amend it so we're really clear.

01:48:27 Jon Farmer: Is it clear?

01:48:49 Briana Bloomfield: Through your worship, I have that the amendment we will be voting on is to add draft terms of reference for a five committee structure, which is option four in the report, including the Tom and then in addition, the Tom Thomson Art Gallery.

01:48:59 Briana Bloomfield: There we go.

01:48:59 Briana Bloomfield: It's framed, Councillor Koepke.

01:49:00 Briana Bloomfield: Just a question on the amendment.

01:49:01 Briana Bloomfield: You identified it as option four, which is totally different names of committees.

01:49:05 Briana Bloomfield: Are you looking at these names?

01:49:07 Briana Bloomfield: Are you looking at operations, community services?

01:49:10 Briana Bloomfield: Through the mayor to clarify.

01:49:13 Melanie Middlebro: Personally, I would like to see an option that shifts the alignment to the themes of the strategic plan, rather than keeping it within the divisional silos of our current org structure.

01:49:26 Jon Farmer: Councillor Hamley.

01:49:27 Jon Farmer: Master Hamlin, I I don't support the amendment.

01:49:42 Brock Hamley: I think it just brings us right back to where we are right now, and the conversation that we're having right now.

01:49:51 Brock Hamley: So, I mean, if you want to punt and do this again on March 23rd or whatever, I guess that's fine.

01:49:57 Brock Hamley: But as far as I can see, it like I think we should make a decision tonight.

01:50:02 Brock Hamley: Call the question.

01:50:02 Brock Hamley: Well, okay.

01:50:03 Brock Hamley: To the amendment.

01:50:03 Brock Hamley: Oh.

01:50:03 Brock Hamley: Thank you, through chair.

01:50:14 Melanie Middlebro: All I would say is that what you just said at the end there that you want it based more off of the strategic plan than what we we were talking about is different, I think, than what your motion was.

01:50:24 Melanie Middlebro: And I agree with the thought of the strategic plan.

01:50:29 Melanie Middlebro: The more I'm thinking about this, I feel like if we went to two standing committees. plus the governance.

01:50:38 Melanie Middlebro: Can we just base it off of the STRAT plan, which gives staff a lot more flexibility?

01:50:45 Melanie Middlebro: And if there are four reports coming down from Public Works, then it goes to whatever makes sense.

01:50:52 Melanie Middlebro: You know, Safe City, something along the lines of the STRAT plan.

01:50:54 Melanie Middlebro: But you you load all of those into the one meeting.

01:51:01 Melanie Middlebro: Does it necessarily have to be specifically scoped out, or can we kind of leave that to staff to give them more flexibility, which would make meetings more the agendas more fulsome and and maybe align things better?

01:51:19 Melanie Middlebro: And I feel like maybe two committees based off of you know have four pillars and three pillars and allow staff the the flexibility to put reports where they feel like they belong.

01:51:39 Melanie Middlebro: I feel like they belong, and then it doesn't require you know if the manager of of revenue and and corporate services has nothing on the agenda that night, they shouldn't have to go.

01:51:48 Melanie Middlebro: I feel like that gives us a little bit more flexibility.

01:51:50 Scott Greig: So I feel like you're heading in the right direction, but I don't feel like your motion got there.

01:51:52 Scott Greig: Deputy Mayor Craig, I'm just going to speak to the amendment and touch upon something the mayor mentioned.

01:51:54 Scott Greig: But a year and a half ago, approximately, I placed a motion before Operations Committee to look at creating an ad hoc task force to study transit, and I think that's a perfect example.

01:52:03 Scott Greig: I removed it then, subsequent waiting for this report to come forward to see the structure.

01:52:09 Scott Greig: You can go crazy making ad hoc committees, but I do think that one highlights what you're kind of you've got some goals there that we can still tackle with ad-hocs.

01:52:18 Scott Greig: So I would vote against it.

01:52:19 Scott Greig: Okay, I'm going to. call the question.

01:52:22 Scott Greig: The motion was.

01:52:28 Briana Bloomfield: The amendment is to add draft terms of reference for a five committee structure, which is option four in the report, with the addition of the Tom Thomson Art Gallery.

01:52:40 Ian Boddy: So I'm calling the question, and that all in favor.

01:52:42 Ian Boddy: One opposed.

01:52:42 Ian Boddy: So that's defeated.

01:52:45 Ian Boddy: So we're back to the original motion, which is Councilor Dodds' motion.

01:52:51 Ian Boddy: Three, Mayor.

01:52:51 Ian Boddy: If I could just add one point.

01:52:52 Ian Boddy: I know we've been talking.

01:53:00 Tim Simmonds: Councilor Dodds' motion didn't have a specific report back date.

01:53:04 Tim Simmonds: In it, I know we've been talking about March 23rd, but in speaking with the clerk, I think we'd be more comfortable with April 13th.

01:53:12 Tim Simmonds: Committee, Council, the whole committee, the whole and council to come back with that.

01:53:17 Tim Simmonds: Clarity Council, do I?

01:53:18 Tim Simmonds: Thank you, Your Worship.

01:53:19 Tim Simmonds: Yeah, absolutely.

01:53:20 Tim Simmonds: Whatever works for your schedule.

01:53:23 Travis Dodd: I was just only using that date as that's something that Scott had just mentioned.

01:53:26 Travis Dodd: Sorry, the Deputy Mayor had mentioned in passing.

01:53:28 Travis Dodd: So, whatever date suits your your your timeline is absolutely fine.

01:53:30 Travis Dodd: Mr. Bloomfield, want to read that motion back so we all understand it?

01:53:37 Briana Bloomfield: To Your Worship, the motion is report.

01:53:46 Briana Bloomfield: Directs after bring back a report with draft terms of reference for the Tom Thomson Art Gallery Committee as is the Community Services and Operations Committee, as well as a Governance and Finance Committee.

01:54:01 Ian Boddy: So I think the indication was community services and operations as is as well.

01:54:07 Ian Boddy: Yeah.

01:54:07 Ian Boddy: Okay.

01:54:07 Ian Boddy: Okay, we're good, Marion.

01:54:08 Ian Boddy: Okay, we're good.

01:54:10 Melanie Middlebro: Marion, just to clarify with the mover of the motion, the committees would be community services as it currently is, operations as it currently is, or would it be changing it to these listings here of of how they're aligned with the strategic plan?

01:54:31 Travis Dodd: Personally, I'd probably leave it as is, but if staff come back with a recommendation that you know something that they see is more efficient, I'd leave that up to them.

01:54:40 Travis Dodd: But as right now, my motion would be as it currently sits.

01:54:44 Travis Dodd: We good?

01:54:46 Ian Boddy: Call the question.

01:54:46 Ian Boddy: All in favor?

01:54:47 Ian Boddy: That is carried.

01:54:48 Ian Boddy: One opposed.

01:54:48 Ian Boddy: Yep.

01:54:48 Ian Boddy: Otherwise, it's carried.

01:54:53 Ian Boddy: Can someone bring a motion for me so I can get out of the chair to seek in a report on. amending the board's and committees' bylaw, committees and board, whichever order it goes in, with regard to establishing an ad hoc.

01:55:07 Ian Boddy: I don't know, sirkins.

01:55:11 Ian Boddy: Go ahead.

01:55:30 Briana Bloomfield: Through your worship, are you looking for a motion about adding words to or a section in the bylaw to permit working groups?

01:55:39 Briana Bloomfield: Yes.

01:55:40 Briana Bloomfield: Councilor Merton.

01:55:40 Briana Bloomfield: I would move that recommendation with a question.

01:55:41 Briana Bloomfield: Would that include clarification of the?

01:55:56 Ian Boddy: mechanism for ad hoc.

01:55:59 Ian Boddy: I think the idea is the mechanism that you'd set it up that isn't there that would set it up that allow council to be able to make decisions at the time that are simple and and move forward.

01:56:09 Ian Boddy: So it's all about the mechanism.

01:56:10 Ian Boddy: Yes.

01:56:10 Ian Boddy: Anyone else, Councilor Gregg?

01:56:36 Ian Boddy: I would just the existing board and committees bylaws going to have to come back for revision depending upon changing the structure because it currently formally lists corporate services committee anyway.

01:56:46 Ian Boddy: So there'll be revisions necessary depending on the outcome.

01:56:47 Ian Boddy: Okay.

01:56:47 Ian Boddy: So can I call Councilor Mertens?

01:56:49 Ian Boddy: No. Not now.

01:56:49 Ian Boddy: Can I call Councilor Mertens' question?

01:56:50 Melanie Middlebro: All favor.

01:56:51 Melanie Middlebro: And that is carried.

01:56:51 Melanie Middlebro: I want to go to Marion next because she wanted to talk about Next, could she want to talk about other committees?

01:56:53 Melanie Middlebro: Thank you, Your Worship.

01:56:54 Melanie Middlebro: Under community organizations, various committees are identified.

01:56:55 Melanie Middlebro: One of them is the Owen Sound Community Fund, and sorry, Owen Sound Fund Committee under Community Foundation Grey Bruce.

01:57:01 Melanie Middlebro: This committee, I've spoken with the chair of this committee, Sandy Stevenson, and discussed the activity of the committee.

01:57:17 Melanie Middlebro: It's no longer doing active fundraising.

01:57:21 Melanie Middlebro: The fund sits with the Community Foundation Grey Bruce.

01:57:25 Melanie Middlebro: We probably have in our bylaw that a council member is to sit on that committee.

01:57:30 Melanie Middlebro: I don't really see that that's necessary, given that the Community Foundation Grey Bruce Grants Committee makes a recommendation on the amount of the funds that are available for grant.

01:57:52 Melanie Middlebro: That are available for granting and suggests an appropriate recipient of that grant based on applications, and to me that should just flow through to the governance and finance committee for an approval of that being the recipient of those grant funds, as opposed to a committee sitting and doing nothing or not meeting, and it just seems like a waste of a council appointment.

01:58:10 Melanie Middlebro: Motion that staff ask for a presentation from the Owen Sound Fund Committee from the Community Foundation Grey Bruce, and with respect to the Owen Sound Fund and not requiring a council member to sit on that fund.

01:58:54 Melanie Middlebro: Given that you've just kind of given us a report of the situation, do we need them to come and report, or should we just make the decision?

01:59:04 Melanie Middlebro: So do I just motion?

01:59:04 Melanie Middlebro: Through your worship, could we consult with them, and then in my next report back provide some suggestions on, on that?

01:59:06 Melanie Middlebro: So do you need a motion then, or not?

01:59:08 Melanie Middlebro: Yes.

01:59:08 Melanie Middlebro: Okay.

01:59:27 Ian Boddy: Okay, change my motion then to have the clerk consult with the Community Foundation Grey Bruce and the Owen Sound Fund, respecting further requirement for a council member to serve on that committee.

01:59:36 Ian Boddy: Good.

01:59:36 Ian Boddy: Okay.

01:59:37 Ian Boddy: Call the question.

01:59:37 Ian Boddy: All in favor?

01:59:38 Ian Boddy: That's carried.

01:59:38 Ian Boddy: Okay.

01:59:38 Ian Boddy: Anything else with regard to committees before we get into the bylaw itself?

01:59:40 Ian Boddy: Okay.

01:59:40 Ian Boddy: Seeing none.

01:59:41 Ian Boddy: So next part is getting into a discussion on the bylaw and the suggestions that are before us.

01:59:42 Ian Boddy: They are on the screen at number two.

01:59:44 Ian Boddy: Probably want to start at one end or the other.

01:59:46 Ian Boddy: Doesn't matter which end.

01:59:46 Ian Boddy: Well, the trouble is I'm looking at confused looks and furrowed brows at the other end.

01:59:49 Ian Boddy: So I think I'll go back to my left again, given that I'm left-handed.

01:59:52 Ian Boddy: Councilor.

01:59:52 Carol Merton: For clarification, Mayor, are you talking about the terms?

02:00:03 Carol Merton: Is that I need clarification on what we are to speak regarding?

02:00:14 Briana Bloomfield: Through your worship, my understanding is we are speaking about the term lengths for the various committees, as well as council versus public appointments.

02:00:24 Ian Boddy: So that's number two, basically, in front of us with the A to F, and there might be other things.

02:00:29 Ian Boddy: Anything you want to discuss?

02:00:30 Ian Boddy: Got Brianna.

02:00:35 Briana Bloomfield: Through your worship, and as I mentioned at the beginning, my thought would be to bring back a draft bylaw so that you could look at those in its entirety.

02:00:45 Briana Bloomfield: Okay, go ahead.

02:00:47 Briana Bloomfield: Through you, Mayor.

02:00:50 Carol Merton: Definitely, I would be interested in seeing a more fulsome report regarding this.

02:00:56 Carol Merton: There has been reference in regarding the Owen Sound Police Services Board, and I think that that would be an important factor to consider as well, if that would come back.

02:01:06 Carol Merton: So again, I'll pass on those comments.

02:01:11 Carol Merton: I've spoken about that previously, but you're referring to the council members.

02:01:17 Carol Merton: Is that your?

02:01:18 Ian Boddy: So just to be very clear, we're not going to get another report back.

02:01:23 Ian Boddy: It's going to be a draft bylaw that we approve with these changes.

02:01:28 Ian Boddy: So we are approving the changes, or we're not tonight.

02:01:30 Ian Boddy: We're not looking for another report back to determine.

02:01:36 Ian Boddy: I just I'm just going to take a second here to point out that this has been a ton of work, and it is a ton of work because look at the time we're putting into it, and think about that we're probably investing about a minute to the hour of what staff have put into it.

02:01:51 Ian Boddy: We're also in an election year, which means the clerks department are dealing with a fall bylaw that is probably stressing the daylights out of them, and it's a ton of work.

02:02:01 Ian Boddy: So we don't want to add more reports and more stuff for us to look at when we've got the reports here.

02:02:08 Ian Boddy: There's suggestions in front of us.

02:02:10 Ian Boddy: We either approve them or we don't.

02:02:12 Ian Boddy: We move on.

02:02:12 Ian Boddy: So I'm still going to go in order.

02:02:18 Carol Merton: Thank you for that, Mayor.

02:02:20 Carol Merton: So I agree with the changes as are presented, with the exception of the appointment terms from four to two years for the Owen Sound Police Service Board.

02:02:37 Carol Merton: Councillor Dodd.

02:02:37 Carol Merton: Thank you, Your Worship.

02:02:42 Travis Dodd: With regard to the Owen Sound Police Service Board, there was the notion that they do have to follow the Community Safety and Policing Act, which requires degree of stability and continuity within the board.

02:02:54 Travis Dodd: Does that anywhere in that act stipulate a time frame?

02:02:58 Travis Dodd: Okay.

02:02:58 Travis Dodd: So I, I, I do think, and I'll use myself as referring.

02:03:03 Travis Dodd: And I'll use myself as for an example.

02:03:05 Travis Dodd: I think of the River District Board.

02:03:07 Travis Dodd: I got a lucky draw in two thousand and twenty-two.

02:03:10 Travis Dodd: I selected the River District Board.

02:03:12 Travis Dodd: Someone else would have wanted to sit on that board.

02:03:15 Travis Dodd: You're out of luck.

02:03:16 Travis Dodd: It's sorry.

02:03:17 Travis Dodd: I'm there for four years.

02:03:18 Travis Dodd: That's me.

02:03:19 Travis Dodd: And I do feel that someone like you know John, you're sorry, Councilor Farmer, in his first year, he was in his first term, he might have said, actually, you know what?

02:03:29 Travis Dodd: After two years, that's something I would have been really interested to be a part of.

02:03:32 Travis Dodd: But he doesn't get that opportunity to have that because it's a four-year commitment.

02:03:37 Travis Dodd: And so for me, when I look at other these committees, and you might say the same, Councilor Farmer, with regards to Great Salt Lake Conservation Authority, I know you've sat on that and you really enjoy that committee.

02:03:46 Travis Dodd: But maybe that was a thing that maybe Marion or Brock or Melanie or Travis wanted to sit on.

02:03:51 Travis Dodd: And it's these one-offs where I would say having a little more availability for us to have knowledge in other areas, Councillor Greg has sat on that for I think two terms, maybe more.

02:04:06 Travis Dodd: And so I don't like.

02:04:09 Travis Dodd: I'll be honest.

02:04:09 Travis Dodd: I've never sat on that board, and I've been here for twelve years.

02:04:12 Travis Dodd: So so I do think when we just do modify that limit, it does give us an opportunity to have more individuals become more knowledgeable in different areas.

02:04:24 Travis Dodd: Council appointments from one to two years.

02:04:26 Travis Dodd: I think that creates some stability.

02:04:28 Travis Dodd: Changing public members from three years to two years on that.

02:04:31 Travis Dodd: I think we heard that from the responses that that's something that's not as daunting.

02:04:36 Travis Dodd: Think of what council terms would been like if they're not four years, they're two years.

02:04:39 Travis Dodd: Think how many people would apply for us, right?

02:04:41 Travis Dodd: But so I'm in agreement with a lot of those spaces.

02:04:46 Travis Dodd: My one thing with this service board, I know right now it's the mayor would be mayor alternate. would be there for two, I believe, for each time.

02:04:57 Travis Dodd: And with regards to the public appointment, it doesn't necessarily.

02:05:00 Travis Dodd: And even with any of the public appointments, whether they go through wherever, doesn't necessarily mean you're not going to get it again.

02:05:07 Travis Dodd: It just means it gives an opportunity to ensure that hey, did that still fit?

02:05:11 Travis Dodd: What happens if we appoint someone and they don't show up, or you know, aren't as strong as some of the people that we have seen and we put those into those positions?

02:05:21 Travis Dodd: It just gives a flexibility to ensure that we have people in the right spots at all times, and not just because they got the luck of the draw in one year and and sign themselves up for four years.

02:05:33 Travis Dodd: Like I think that creates an opportunity to ensure that everything's working the way we wanted to continue to do.

02:05:39 Travis Dodd: And again, I don't think that means that just because we switch the Grey Bruce Conservation Authority Board from four to two. doesn't necessarily mean that same people get it again.

02:05:49 Travis Dodd: They could definitely get it again, but I just gives more of an option.

02:05:53 Travis Dodd: So I'm in support of that.

02:05:55 Travis Dodd: I do think there needs to be some sort of we have a sunshine clause, but I do think there's got to be something else.

02:06:01 Travis Dodd: We got to modify the sunshine clause to ensure there's a capped sunset.

02:06:04 Travis Dodd: Sorry, there's got to be a cap limit of how many how many years someone can go individually.

02:06:10 Travis Dodd: Most confirm or anything to add?

02:06:13 Jon Farmer: Yeah, thank you, through the mayor.

02:06:15 Jon Farmer: Yeah, would have loved to have got more conversations about the River District Board.

02:06:18 Jon Farmer: I appreciate the that transition as well.

02:06:22 Jon Farmer: I'm in support of that.

02:06:23 Jon Farmer: I do wonder if some of the fears around continuity could be allayed a bit by offsetting the length of those terms.

02:06:36 Jon Farmer: It would be difficult if there was no one returning on a given council, but I don't think that happens very often.

02:06:42 Jon Farmer: And I wonder if, for the police service board and Grace Sable, which both have four-year terms there and and two members, if there would be a way to say one year, yeah, like that things somehow give an opportunity to switch partway through, but also overlap so that there's some continuity.

02:07:06 Jon Farmer: I don't totally know what that would need to look like from a bylaw perspective, but I think that gives an opportunity for if there are always going to be two people from this table at one of the other tables, that even if one of those people is switching, the other person can serve a bit of that mentoring role.

02:07:21 Jon Farmer: And I certainly benefited that at Grace Sable with with the deputy mayor's experience there.

02:07:27 Jon Farmer: I did not find it a convincing argument from the police service chair. that that it was totally unique in having a a specific focus.

02:07:56 Jon Farmer: I think that's also true for the River District and Grace Oppen that, rather than there being way too much turnover and far too much turnover, we gave a twenty-year service plaque to someone who had been on the police service board for a couple of decades, and the current chair has been there for multiple terms.

02:08:05 Jon Farmer: So I would support including the police service in there, and I also am really, really enthusiastic about specifically including a youth member on all committees.

02:08:35 Jon Farmer: I think that we should follow some of the best practices being demonstrated by other municipalities through AMOS Healthy Democracy Forum and lower the age of participation in committees to sixteen, which is something that other folks are doing that helps to bring people in earlier, build that awareness, build those skill sets, and I would like to see that included within the next report.

02:08:45 Jon Farmer: I think that's all for me.

02:08:46 Scott Greig: Deputy Mayor Greig, I totally agree with A, B, C, D, and E, and I would move it if you wanted a motion on the floor.

02:08:57 Scott Greig: But I have one question.

02:09:01 Scott Greig: It is because we're on boards and committees.

02:09:05 Scott Greig: Currently, we have this goofy setup where, in the month after the election, for two to three months, we have an interruption in terms of serving on committees.

02:09:35 Scott Greig: Can we have the bylaw corrected at this time, so that after the election in two thousand and twenty-six, the bylaw includes your committee selection from that time moving forward, instead of like being on a committee for two months and then not being on?

02:09:45 Scott Greig: Because I think we are unique; we are unique with that setup, and it really doesn't make sense.

02:09:47 Olivia Legate: I think I don't want to miss an opportunity to clean it up and become a little more uniform with other municipalities.

02:09:53 Briana Bloomfield: Through your worship, just to get some clarity, are you looking to have the new members of council begin their terms almost immediately, or move up their selections of those committees to like end of November, December, because their term begins November fifteenth, so we don't—we can't do it at that meeting.

02:10:17 Briana Bloomfield: So it would have to be like their very first meeting in November.

02:10:20 Briana Bloomfield: Is that what you're sort of saying?

02:10:24 Scott Greig: I would say do it at the very first meeting.

02:10:27 Scott Greig: That's what makes sense.

02:10:28 Scott Greig: It's part of the procedural work that gets done at that time, as opposed to being on a committee for the month of December and the month of January and then changing again.

02:10:39 Ian Boddy: Your orientation comes after that, though, so you've got new councils coming in that haven't been oriented that don't know what committees they want just yet.

02:10:50 Scott Greig: If you run for council, I would hope that you have a pretty decent understanding of where your interests are and what you've signed up for, and are competent and capable of making that decision at that time.

02:11:03 Scott Greig: That's just me, though.

02:11:06 Ian Boddy: I think you and I could have a much deeper conversation about this when the microphone is on, Councillor Kepke.

02:11:18 Briana Bloomfield: Just a couple of comments to that.

02:11:20 Briana Bloomfield: Currently, we don't have any committee meetings scheduled, so there are no meetings.

02:11:26 Briana Bloomfield: But it could affect, say, the Grays Harbor Conservation Authority board, so we could consult with them.

02:11:31 Briana Bloomfield: But perhaps I—you make a motion and we could have some information come back as part of that next report.

02:11:41 Scott Greig: Why don't you do your motion right now and then that clears it off the table?

02:11:45 Scott Greig: Okay, I will move the recommendation in the report A, B, C, D, E. Leave.

02:11:49 Scott Greig: Oh, hold on, just your motion on moving the date.

02:11:53 Scott Greig: Oh, okay, I'll move that.

02:11:57 Ian Boddy: I spoke while the microphone was off, so they wouldn't have heard you.

02:12:02 SPEAKER_166: So your motion is, yeah, included in the report back, examining moving the dates as opposed to effective two thousand twenty-seven, which is in the recommendation.

02:12:24 Ian Boddy: So you're moving the commencement of the appointments to the committees post-election.

02:12:31 Ian Boddy: Good with that.

02:12:33 Ian Boddy: Good with that.

02:12:34 Ian Boddy: Okay, Councillor Kepke.

02:12:37 Melanie Middlebro: Sorry to relabor this.

02:12:40 Melanie Middlebro: I'm not understanding if you're saying that they would do that at the first meeting, or as the clerk mentioned, there are committees, standing committees, do not meet until the orientation takes place.

02:12:51 Melanie Middlebro: However, it affects conservation authority, police service board, maybe housing company, different committees.

02:13:00 Melanie Middlebro: So there's okay.

02:13:05 Ian Boddy: So the motion is to get a report back.

02:13:07 Ian Boddy: So that's—we'll answer some of those.

02:13:09 Ian Boddy: Are we good?

02:13:10 Ian Boddy: Can I call the question on that one?

02:13:12 Ian Boddy: All in favor?

02:13:12 Ian Boddy: That is carried.

02:13:14 Ian Boddy: Now back without a motion.

02:13:15 Ian Boddy: Now back to what's in front of us, Marion.

02:13:18 Ian Boddy: So you—I want to.

02:13:25 Ian Boddy: I want everyone's comments before we start going to this, so that we're proceeding.

02:13:30 Ian Boddy: We've started in that side without motion.

02:13:32 Ian Boddy: So if you want to continue on what's in front of us here.

02:13:36 Ian Boddy: All right.

02:13:36 Ian Boddy: I don't know that.

02:13:45 Melanie Middlebro: I have a whole lot more other than I agree with A, B, C, D, and F. I do not agree with E. Councilor Ham, I have no concerns with the changes to term limits as presented.

02:14:08 Melanie Middlebro: Councilor Middlebro, through you, Chair.

02:14:11 Melanie Middlebro: I also do not have any issues with the term limit changes.

02:14:16 Melanie Middlebro: I'm in support of all of them.

02:14:18 Melanie Middlebro: As far as what Councilor Farmer said about youth, I just want to clarify that you're not suggesting that we have a dedicated youth person on each committee, are you?

02:14:34 Jon Farmer: Through the mayor, that was in the original report and in the specifics there.

02:14:49 Jon Farmer: In the specific, there, my understanding is that when staff drafted the report, they were defining youth as like eighteen to twenty-five, and I am in support of that change.

02:14:59 Jon Farmer: I guess that's not specifically under this part of the bylaw, but my understanding was that this would be a separate conversation or comment from the strictly structural piece that we were discussing previously.

02:15:01 Jon Farmer: So I made that comment then, but yes, I'm like in support of the recommendation in the report or in those proposed structural changes.

02:15:07 Jon Farmer: I think that there are—I could wax poetic about the benefits, but I think that there are many, and I would support that.

02:15:17 Jon Farmer: Councillor Capkey, thank you, Worship.

02:15:20 Melanie Middlebro: I'm sorry, I forgot.

02:15:22 Melanie Middlebro: I did have one question.

02:15:33 Ian Boddy: Is it the city's bylaw that indicates on the police services board that the mayor and/or an alternate and one council member serve, or is it under the Police Service Act?

02:15:43 Ian Boddy: It is.

02:15:43 Ian Boddy: It is under the Act that says the head of council plus one other member of council plus one public member being appointed by council.

02:15:45 Ian Boddy: Okay, so if that's the case, then—sorry, let me fix that.

02:15:47 Ian Boddy: The head of council or their designee.

02:15:50 Ian Boddy: I think I'm not sure if they use the word designee or alternate.

02:15:53 Ian Boddy: Yes, sorry.

02:15:54 Ian Boddy: Go ahead.

02:15:55 Melanie Middlebro: Okay, so if that's the case, then the mayor of the day may choose then a four-year term, because the Act says so.

02:16:04 Melanie Middlebro: But it's the council person, the other representative, that's changed to a two-year.

02:16:13 Melanie Middlebro: Okay.

02:16:13 Melanie Middlebro: Thanks.

02:16:16 Melanie Middlebro: Okay.

02:16:17 Ian Boddy: Now I'm going to go back to Deputy Mayor Greig, and I will move to amend the board and committee bylaw to: A) change council member appointments terms to committees from one year to two years; B) change public member appointment terms to committees from three years to two years; C) change the council member appointment term on the Great Salvel Conservation Authority board from four years to two years; D) change the council member appointment term on the Owen Sound Housing Company board from one year to two years; and E) change both the mayor/alternate member and public member appointment terms on the Police Owen Sound Police Service Board from four years to two years.

02:16:57 Scott Greig: The reason I'm not moving F is these are external organizations whose frequency meeting times may change a little bit more.

02:17:06 Scott Greig: So as opposed to internally here within council, so I think there's a benefit to just leaving that one year.

02:17:14 Scott Greig: And if people want to serve on those external community organizations, that opportunity still presents itself for visiting every year and selection every year.

02:17:26 Scott Greig: Okay, comments, Councilor Farmer.

02:17:30 Jon Farmer: I'm broadly in support through the mayor.

02:17:34 Jon Farmer: I after this motion, I'll move F. I think that's worth talking about separately.

02:17:43 Ian Boddy: I just I forgot to comment before, but with regard to the place board or anybody, two plus two equals four.

02:17:49 Ian Boddy: So you can sit for four years, you can sit for six years.

02:17:53 Ian Boddy: I've got another motion that might be coming later, but two years just gives council the option to review every two years versus every four years.

02:18:03 Ian Boddy: And given that it's for a full council term, as a rule, it doesn't really get reviewed until start of the next term.

02:18:09 Ian Boddy: So it makes sense to have the interim.

02:18:11 Ian Boddy: Was the reason behind that?

02:18:12 Ian Boddy: I will call the question on face.

02:18:14 Ian Boddy: I will call the question on favor of Scott's motion.

02:18:16 Ian Boddy: One, two, three, four, five opposed.

02:18:20 Ian Boddy: Two.

02:18:20 Ian Boddy: So that is carried.

02:18:25 Ian Boddy: Councillor Farmer.

02:18:27 Jon Farmer: Through the mayor, I would move F. I think that it also makes sense to change the appointment on community organizations.

02:18:34 Jon Farmer: If I think about my time on the community safety and well-being plan, they have quarterly meetings, and having a couple of years to have eight meetings instead of just four to get my feet under me would have been helpful.

02:18:50 Jon Farmer: And I think that introduces some continuity across our selection process as well, so that we're not having to draw names from a hat when we pick our seats.

02:19:09 Jon Farmer: Through the mayor, I think it also just saves us time, rather than having to select those committees only, and I think that that helps us with the number of our selection as well.

02:19:20 Jon Farmer: Because if my understanding is that if we were doing that with the current process, that it would be awkward with nine people.

02:19:27 Jon Farmer: That you may end up with someone who draws the one, and then the person who draws the eight wouldn't have anything left to sit on, depending on the number of external community organizations we were assigned to.

02:19:39 Ian Boddy: Okay.

02:19:40 Ian Boddy: Anyone else wish to comment on that?

02:19:43 Ian Boddy: I'm going to call the question on favor.

02:19:45 Ian Boddy: One, two, three, four, five.

02:19:48 Ian Boddy: That's carried.

02:19:49 Ian Boddy: Okay.

02:19:51 Ian Boddy: So that gets us through all of that.

02:19:54 Briana Bloomfield: Through your worship, there has been some discussion about the youth member. and it would be helpful for staff.

02:20:05 Briana Bloomfield: Right, what we had put in the report was to require that all standing committees have a youth public member where possible, and I think that speaks to what Councilor Farmer was saying.

02:20:16 Briana Bloomfield: But it would be helpful for staff for when those terms of reference come back, if this is something that Council wants.

02:20:23 Briana Bloomfield: So, if we could have a motion now to bring that back as part of the terms of reference.

02:20:31 Ian Boddy: So, question: Are we limited right now at age eighteen?

02:20:37 Ian Boddy: Is there any?

02:20:37 Ian Boddy: So, there's no limit to us having a youth on any committee now.

02:20:42 Ian Boddy: So, the difference is whether we move that we must put a youth on and have to go fishing for a youth, or whether we just leave it open as it is now, and a youth can go on to it.

02:20:53 Melanie Middlebro: So.

02:20:54 Melanie Middlebro: Councilor Biddulph, I'm not in favor of tying ourselves down to having a youth member on committees.

02:21:01 Melanie Middlebro: We have enough trouble finding committee members as it is, and to having to stipulate that we have to have a youth member, I feel like it takes up a spot for someone that might have a lot of life experience that could offer some really good input.

02:21:15 Melanie Middlebro: Input.

02:21:16 Melanie Middlebro: Everyone can apply, and we will look at the merits of anyone who applies and choose from that list.

02:21:23 Melanie Middlebro: There's nothing stopping youth from applying, and if it makes sense in the moment for us to pick that person, we will.

02:21:30 Melanie Middlebro: But I don't think that we should be tying our hands.

02:21:33 Melanie Middlebro: Councilor Farmer, keep it brief.

02:21:36 Jon Farmer: Through the mayor, I appreciate that comment around not wanting to tie ourselves specifically to having a youth member.

02:21:43 Jon Farmer: I'll separate my remarks then and move that.

02:21:48 Jon Farmer: Staff include the option of lowering the minimum age of committee members to sixteen from eighteen.

02:21:57 Ian Boddy: But we just discussed that there isn't a limit.

02:21:59 Ian Boddy: There isn't a limit at eighteen right now, so it's wide open already.

02:22:06 Ian Boddy: So we don't need to, Councilor.

02:22:08 Carol Merton: Through your Worship, I'm wondering the City Clerk could read the phrase again.

02:22:15 Carol Merton: I believe I heard you say that we would have youth if available, so it's not have to, but if available, correct.

02:22:26 Carol Merton: So the option of that.

02:22:30 Briana Bloomfield: Through your Worship, it is on your screens, and the wording is require that all standing committees require a youth public member where possible.

02:22:38 Briana Bloomfield: Councilor Don.

02:22:41 Briana Bloomfield: Councilor Dodd.

02:22:42 Travis Dodd: Thank you, Worship.

02:22:42 Travis Dodd: I guess what I would just say is, if I'm not sure what we currently do when we're sending out our notification about current public applications, maybe just something we need to do is just include to be sent to school boards to see if there's a student council rep that could potentially come and apply at the same point.

02:22:59 Travis Dodd: I think that's the only.

02:23:01 Travis Dodd: Probably, I've been here for 12 years and I didn't realize that there was anything there.

02:23:05 Travis Dodd: So I think it's just more of a communication side of it.

02:23:12 Ian Boddy: Thanks.

02:23:13 Ian Boddy: Are we good?

02:23:14 Ian Boddy: We're good.

02:23:15 Ian Boddy: If I can pass the gavel once again and the chair to Deputy Mayor Greig, I've got a couple motions that I want to discuss.

02:23:25 Scott Greig: Okay, I will recognize and present the floor to Mayor Boddy.

02:23:29 Ian Boddy: Thank you, Deputy Mayor Greig.

02:23:32 Ian Boddy: One of the things that I hear from time to time is that we've had people sitting on some committees for a long time that need to turn over and trying to open up those spaces.

02:23:44 Ian Boddy: Travis talked a little bit earlier about even within council of opening up things.

02:23:49 Ian Boddy: So I note on the boards and committees bylaw a public member may serve on a committee for a maximum of six years, which they may leave the board or committee for then must leave the board or committee for at least two years.

02:24:05 Ian Boddy: Next sentence: Council may waive this length of service cap by a two-thirds vote of the whole of council.

02:24:15 Ian Boddy: What I am proposing is to amend that section sixteen to read: A public member may serve on a committee for a maximum of eight years, so going from six to eight years.

02:24:35 Ian Boddy: After which they must leave the board or committee for at least two years.

02:24:40 Ian Boddy: Period, and removing that next sentence.

02:24:42 Ian Boddy: So basically, removing the automatic or that option to sunshine.

02:24:49 Ian Boddy: The reason why I'm suggesting eight years is that you may have people that are going to renew for two years at a time and ends up being two council terms being halfway through a council term.

02:25:01 Ian Boddy: I'm open on that, but my motion that I leave for discussion is exactly that: changing it to eight years and removing council's the length of cap being being waived or the sunset clause.

02:25:21 Ian Boddy: Questions from council.

02:25:24 Ian Boddy: Councilor Farmer.

02:25:29 Jon Farmer: So through the deputy mayor.

02:25:31 Jon Farmer: So just to be really clear, there's no longer a possibility of extending.

02:25:35 Jon Farmer: And is that for a particular period of time, or just for one for one term?

02:25:39 Jon Farmer: And I just also want to make sure that we're not locking in to like a requirement that somebody be have their application extended multiple times.

02:25:51 Ian Boddy: No, I'm moving you out of having to having people extended multiple times.

02:25:55 Ian Boddy: They have to sit down for at least two years.

02:25:58 Ian Boddy: Then they can come back on.

02:26:00 Ian Boddy: So up to eight years must take two years off.

02:26:03 Ian Boddy: Then can come back on basically for another eight years.

02:26:09 Ian Boddy: Okay.

02:26:09 Ian Boddy: Any further questions?

02:26:12 Briana Bloomfield: All those in favor?

02:26:14 Briana Bloomfield: Oh, oh, oh, very good.

02:26:15 Briana Bloomfield: Oh, sorry.

02:26:16 Briana Bloomfield: I'll go to the clerk, Sir, Your Worship.

02:26:18 Briana Bloomfield: This was just something that I noticed in reviewing the bylaw, but I think it would be helpful if it said maximum eight consecutive years, just for that wording.

02:26:30 Briana Bloomfield: And also for clarification, right now how it stands is you can serve for six years on the community services committee, but then you could apply for the corporate services committee, so you could switch committees, and that isn't changing from what I understand.

02:26:49 Ian Boddy: So I am including that clarification in the motion.

02:26:58 Ian Boddy: Okay, we're all clear.

02:27:00 Scott Greig: And I'll call the question.

02:27:02 Scott Greig: All those in favor, and that is carried unanimously.

02:27:10 Ian Boddy: Back to you, Mayor Boddy.

02:27:12 Ian Boddy: I've got one more that I want to put before you, and it's maybe maybe a lawyer being a lawyer, but I note in our boards and committee bylaw that there, under section 20829, there's a code of conduct that requires the code of conduct be placed in front of all boards and committees, and they must review it and must comply with the provisions.

02:27:43 Ian Boddy: But then I noticed in the policy CRS C-42, which is our code of conduct for members of council, local boards and committees, that subject to section eight, where a local board of the city has not adopted a code of conduct, such board shall be deemed to have adopted this code, with necessary modifications, except where a part indicates that it specifically applies to council or committee.

02:28:12 Ian Boddy: Number eight, the code does not apply to local boards that have their own enabling legislation, including but not limited to Grey Subdivision Authority, Owen Sound and North Grey Union Public Library, and Owen Sound Police Services.

02:28:31 Ian Boddy: I would like to bring a motion to amend the code of conduct for members of council, local boards, and committees to state just that where local boards of the city has not adopted a code of conduct, such boards shall be deemed to have adopted this code with necessary modifications, except where a part indicates that specifically applies to council or committees.

02:28:55 Ian Boddy: And then I would remove that section eight, which says that the code does not apply to the other local boards that will have their own code of conduct.

02:29:08 Ian Boddy: My thinking is this: if we apply anyone to any board or any committee, whether it's ones that report to council or ones out, it's our responsibility to appoint them.

02:29:20 Ian Boddy: I think it's only right that they be held to the same code of conduct that council and other committee members are held to.

02:29:30 Ian Boddy: Even though they may have their own code of conduct, that code of conduct may vary, be more specific to those organizations, and I believe that anyone that's appointed by the city should have to abide by the code of conduct that we all do.

02:29:48 Ian Boddy: So leave that for discussion.

02:29:51 Scott Greig: Okay, thanks, Mayor Boddy, Councillor Farmer.

02:29:53 Scott Greig: I see you first.

02:29:54 Scott Greig: I recognize you.

02:29:56 Scott Greig: Thank you.

02:29:56 Jon Farmer: Through the Deputy Mayor, question to the Mayor: Are there situations in which our code of conduct would be at odds with another organization's, or I guess I'm curious about the situations that this protects us from, or if this is just a desire to state clearly that these are the rules here, they apply to you when you're outside of this chamber and other tables as well, in the same way that high school trip chaperones were made very clear in Europe trips that the drinking age applied from Canada when we were in Europe.

02:30:32 Ian Boddy: I believe probably our code of conduct exceeds the others.

02:30:41 Ian Boddy: I can't picture that there would be a conflict where a code of conduct would say something that would provide conduct that would be in opposition to our code of conduct.

02:30:59 Ian Boddy: Any further questions, Councillor Merton?

02:31:00 Ian Boddy: Go ahead.

02:31:02 Ian Boddy: Through you.

02:31:05 Carol Merton: Do we currently have any reference material about the codes of conduct that exist in other boards, so that we can maybe have an understanding of the variances that may exist?

02:31:21 Scott Greig: And in the moment, I'm just looking at the Clerk or Mayor Boddy.

02:31:25 Scott Greig: If you've got anything you can draw from to respond to that question.

02:31:33 Scott Greig: Thinking this through.

02:31:37 Ian Boddy: What I think I will do is appropriate is I'm going to withdraw my motion.

02:31:45 Ian Boddy: When we get down to notices, I'll maybe give that notice, and then you'll have the opportunity to go and look at the code of conduct and look at it.

02:31:52 Ian Boddy: That makes more sense.

02:31:53 Ian Boddy: So I'll withdraw that motion.

02:31:55 Ian Boddy: Thank you.

02:31:57 Scott Greig: As the acting chair, we appreciate that.

02:32:01 Scott Greig: It's we were probably going to be wishful of having it put on the TV screen in front of us, so we appreciate that opportunity later and pass the gavel back to Mayor Boddy.

02:32:15 Scott Greig: Okay.

02:32:16 Ian Boddy: Thank you.

02:32:16 Ian Boddy: I want to pass the gavel to Ms. Bloomfield.

02:32:20 Ian Boddy: Where are we at on this?

02:32:24 Ian Boddy: Have we done everything that we need to on this?

02:32:27 Ian Boddy: She's indicating yes.

02:32:29 Ian Boddy: So that completes, Councillor Capu.

02:32:35 Melanie Middlebro: Thank you, Worship.

02:32:36 Melanie Middlebro: I just wondered if there was any desire at all to limit the council member serving on a particular committee for so many terms or so many years.

02:32:50 Melanie Middlebro: I know we do a selection process, but one person can monopolize a committee if they like that committee and want to serve on it for four years, another four years, another four years.

02:33:06 Melanie Middlebro: I just wondered if there's any desire at all around the table to consider that.

02:33:15 Ian Boddy: Yeah, in the last couple of years, we've been pretty good to try and trade it off to try and get different experiences in different committees.

02:33:21 Ian Boddy: But great point.

02:33:23 Ian Boddy: Motion.

02:33:29 Melanie Middlebro: I I think I'd like to see the motion be similar to the public member, serving eight years and then having to go off for two and and may come back.

02:33:39 Melanie Middlebro: Councillor Farmer.

02:33:40 SPEAKER_166: I through the mayor, I really appreciate the intent behind the motion.

02:33:53 Jon Farmer: I wonder if taking it to two full terms of council, not everyone will serve two or three terms of council, and I wonder if a friendly amendment might be acceptable down to six, so that if there is someone who's new for a shorter period of time, that that window is still available to them to switch things up.

02:34:15 Jon Farmer: But I also don't know if.

02:34:30 Melanie Middlebro: So don't know if it's the stale dating aspect of the motion that is the problem solved, or the opening up space for others.

02:34:39 Melanie Middlebro: Does the clerk have any comments on this?

02:34:41 Melanie Middlebro: I'm not.

02:34:41 Melanie Middlebro: I'm fine with six years.

02:34:42 Melanie Middlebro: I don't.

02:34:42 Melanie Middlebro: Doesn't really matter.

02:34:43 Melanie Middlebro: I'm fine with four years.

02:34:44 Brock Hamley: But just I just think consideration needs to be to limit the number of years a council member can sit on one committee.

02:34:46 Brock Hamley: Councillor Hamley.

02:34:47 Brock Hamley: I appreciate where you're coming from, but one thing that I kind of just thought about was like, when you're selecting the committees, like is that going to mess up?

02:34:57 Brock Hamley: Because okay, I've been on such and such a committee for eight years, and I can't select it now.

02:35:02 Brock Hamley: It's the only one left.

02:35:03 Brock Hamley: I'm going to pass.

02:35:04 Brock Hamley: Like it could get really complicated.

02:35:08 Ian Boddy: And we do have a different committee selection.

02:35:11 Ian Boddy: Do you want to leave your motion?

02:35:17 Scott Greig: Okay.

02:35:17 Scott Greig: So motion stands.

02:35:18 Scott Greig: Go ahead.

02:35:19 Scott Greig: What I would add to that is, and I'll vote against it.

02:35:22 Scott Greig: When selecting committees, there's an opportunity at that time to sometimes select what befits your schedule more appropriately than than a static continuance of a committee that is more disruptive to what what your your schedule is maybe permissive of.

02:35:41 Scott Greig: Secondly, I guess I'll throw a hypothetical out.

02:35:43 Scott Greig: You could theoretically have a scenario where not that you could have five new members go onto a committee, but you could be post election and have five new members on a committee, and that may be an instance where you would value that one person who's got long-standing knowledge or institutional knowledge within a specific department.

02:36:09 Scott Greig: So it's not likely to happen, but I guess it could happen.

02:36:14 Scott Greig: And I'm I hear where you're coming from, but I don't think the issue is significant enough for me to support it.

02:36:24 Scott Greig: I'm going to call the question on favor.