Owen Sound Council Meeting - Special Meeting Transcript — June 23, 2025

00:02:48 Speaker 01: We'll call our meeting to order.

00:02:49 Speaker 01: This is Owen Sound City Council.

00:02:51 Speaker 02: It is a special meeting on June twenty-third.

00:02:54 Speaker 02: Starting now, calling it to order.

00:02:57 Speaker 02: Are there any declarations of interest?

00:03:01 Speaker 02: Looking left, looking right, not seeing any.

00:03:04 Speaker 03: Motion to move council into committee of the whole.

00:03:07 Speaker 03: I don't always get it.

00:03:08 Speaker 03: Go ahead.

00:03:11 Speaker 04: Move by myself, seconded by Councillor Dodd, that City Council now moves into committee of the whole to consider public meetings, deputations, and presentations, reports of city staff, and matters postponed.

00:03:23 Speaker 04: All in favour?

00:03:24 Speaker 04: And that is carried.

00:03:26 Speaker 04: So we're in committee of the whole.

00:03:27 Speaker 04: We're up to four A. Sorry, Brady.

00:03:29 Speaker 04: I tried to drag it as long as I could.

00:03:34 Speaker 04: You're giving reports first.

00:03:35 Speaker 04: I think in Centennial Tower.

00:03:54 Speaker 04: All right, thank you, Mayor and members of council.

00:03:56 Speaker 04: Good afternoon.

00:03:57 Speaker 05: Before we get into the multi-year capital plan presentation, we just have a couple housekeeping reports to add.

00:04:03 Speaker 05: I think we went through something similar last year when we addressed a couple items that weren't necessarily part of the consultation that we did with the various committees.

00:04:11 Speaker 05: So we thought that this was an opportunity to bring it back in front of the group as a whole.

00:04:16 Speaker 05: The first report is the Centennial Tower structural assessment and capital needs upgrade.

00:04:22 Speaker 05: We're looking for council approval to direct staff to include the cost for the rehabilitation of the Centennial Tower and associated path of travel upgrades in the two thousand and twenty-six to two thousand and thirty

00:04:32 Speaker 05: multi-year capital plan as an unfunded project until a comprehensive asset management programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe for facilities has been approved by council.

00:04:40 Speaker 05: A little bit of history about this tower is that it was constructed in one thousand, nine hundred and sixty-seven as a Centennial project in consultation with the two local high schools,

00:04:50 Speaker 05: OSCVI and West Hill Secondary School.

00:04:52 Speaker 05: At that time, the design was based on building a tower out of four pre-stressed concrete sections, each twenty-five feet high in length,

00:05:03 Speaker 05: that were to be placed on the existing thirty-two-foot steel lime kiln that was installed sometime in the late eighteen hundreds.

00:05:11 Speaker 05: Inside that structure is a steel staircase that will take you from the bottom viewing platform up to the top viewing platform.

00:05:20 Speaker 05: The tower received rehabilitation in two thousand and one.

00:05:24 Speaker 05: Once again, through the coordination of work through the original school committees that were part of the project in one thousand, nine hundred and sixty-seven.

00:05:31 Speaker 05: Since then, the tower has only had minor maintenance completed on it, including railing repairs, painting of the concrete more or less to cover up graffiti,

00:05:41 Speaker 05: and the replacement of the wooden deck on the ramp that connects the tower to the adjacent trail.

00:05:46 Speaker 05: There have been no structural repairs to the tower to staff's knowledge since that time.

00:05:52 Speaker 05: In August two thousand and four, staff requested that a structural engineer conduct a structural review to look at deterioration of the steel surrounding the concrete structure, as well as other identified deficiencies.

00:06:03 Speaker 05: We retained GEI Engineering to conduct this assessment, and what we would consider is very similar to our OSM inspections completed on our bridges, so they looked at the visible elements of the structure.

00:06:14 Speaker 05: They didn't do intrusive investigation or anything that was more costly than that.

00:06:20 Speaker 05: They just looked at what they could see with their eye from the ground level and from the viewing platforms.

00:06:25 Speaker 05: The structural report identifies the estimated rehabilitation costs for the general project management, concrete repairs, corrosion and recoating, structural repairs and reinforcement, slope stabilization, and included allowances for contingency and contract administration.

00:06:41 Speaker 05: In summary, the tower needs two hundred sixty-five thousand dollars worth of work based on all of those components.

00:06:48 Speaker 05: However, most notably,

00:06:49 Speaker 05: GEI recommended the immediate closure of the tower to public access at that time due to considerable corrosion and section loss of the eastern steel panels that support the upper concrete tower and make up the

00:07:02 Speaker 05: lower portion of the tower.

00:07:04 Speaker 05: We've included a picture of that area directly into the staff report.

00:07:10 Speaker 05: They also identified that the brick that forms the base of the tower, where the pre-stressed concrete is fastened around with the steel, and those panels fastened around the existing kiln,

00:07:23 Speaker 05: there was also deflection within that brick at the base of the tower as well.

00:07:25 Speaker 05: So it has been moving and could potentially shift moving forward.

00:07:31 Speaker 05: As I said, GEI recommended that the tower be closed to the public until the city could address the structural concerns at that time.

00:07:38 Speaker 05: Parks and open space staff installed temporary barriers at the tower site, as well as signage at the tower, but also up at the top in the parking lot, so that people didn't visit the site,

00:07:49 Speaker 05: wander down, and then find out that it was closed.

00:07:51 Speaker 05: So there was some large signage that I'm sure you've all seen, going by the site that indicates that the tower is closed to the public.

00:07:58 Speaker 05: However, despite these best efforts, Parks and open space staff are continuing to deal with people trespassing, including into the tower, around the tower, in all in all that area,

00:08:09 Speaker 05: including removing some of the signage and barriers over this.

00:08:12 Speaker 05: So it's something that we're continuing to deal with as staff.

00:08:16 Speaker 05: In addition to the structural review,

00:08:18 Speaker 05: the project did not look at the path or access path from the parking lot down to the tower because it was strictly a structural assessment for the tower and its home.

00:08:29 Speaker 05: Staff have identified many concerns with the current path, the condition of it, the path, the condition of its surface, its width, and everything like that, as well as looking at the barrier system as it,

00:08:40 Speaker 05: the as the tower and trail start to access over the escarpment.

00:08:45 Speaker 05: Staff have used just kind of some basic internal knowledge and recent pricing to estimate that the cost to bring this access route up to an acceptable standard that would also meet accessibility requirements or design

00:08:58 Speaker 05: the public space requirements to be approximately one hundred and seventy thousand dollars as well.

00:09:05 Speaker 05: Before we talk about pushing this project into an unfunded list,

00:09:08 Speaker 05: we just wanted to also connect this tower on its own to the overall city's building portfolio and the project that we are doing associated with that.

00:09:17 Speaker 05: As you are aware, in two thousand and twenty-four, staff completed building condition assessments on twenty-nine of our larger facilities.

00:09:23 Speaker 05: So we did the Bayshore, the City Hall, the projects that were very complex.

00:09:28 Speaker 05: At that time, those twenty-nine projects was identified that those building needs need thirty-one million dollars investment over the next five years, creating an average annual funding gap of five point seven five million dollars.

00:09:43 Speaker 05: This year, we are going to be completing building condition assessments on the smaller and less complex buildings, similar to the tower, in order to identify the cost for those buildings as well.

00:09:54 Speaker 05: So we don't anticipate them being as high, but we want to make sure that we look at this entire portfolio before we make long-term decisions.

00:09:58 Speaker 05: Before we make long-term decisions, the next step is once we have the condition assessments for all of these city facilities, we would then look to establish levels of service, asset management strategies,

00:10:10 Speaker 05: and then create a financial plan that looks at this group as a whole.

00:10:14 Speaker 05: Understanding that this work is not completed and there's still quite a bit of work to do, staff are recommending that the Centennial Tower remain closed for the time being,

00:10:22 Speaker 05: as it does not deliver core services, so it's not a building that we need to make sure snowplows operate out over tax.

00:10:26 Speaker 05: Plows operate out of, or tax dollars are collected out of, or is the one and only building that services a larger area.

00:10:33 Speaker 05: So our suggestion is to keep this.

00:10:35 Speaker 05: Our recommendation is to keep this building closed until we can complete the larger asset management programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe for city facilities.

00:10:43 Speaker 05: Staff will continue to monitor the barriers and signage installed at this location throughout the duration of the closure, and then we brought this report forward today because, as I said earlier,

00:10:54 Speaker 05: we did not include this previously or have a report to the Community Services Committee or other committees to bring this forward during the development of the multi-year capital plan.

00:11:05 Speaker 05: We are bringing it to Council today to ask that the projects be included as unfunded projects in the two thousand and twenty-six to two thousand and thirty multi-year capital plan,

00:11:13 Speaker 05: meaning that we do not have funding sources for them at this time.

00:11:17 Speaker 05: So we would include one project for the Centennial Tower rehabilitation at a value of two hundred and sixty-five thousand, and we would have a second project for the access road.

00:11:25 Speaker 05: Improvements at a value of one hundred and seventy thousand dollars, and if approved, they won't be included in today's presentation later on.

00:11:32 Speaker 05: But they would be included in the July 21st report when we bring that back to council.

00:11:37 Speaker 05: And with that, I'm happy to take any questions.

00:11:39 Speaker 05: Questions?

00:11:40 Speaker 05: Yep.

00:11:40 Speaker 05: Go ahead.

00:11:42 Speaker 05: Thank you, through you, Mr. Mayor.

00:11:43 Speaker 06: And while I totally agree, really, that this should be closed to public until we come up with a better asset management plan and look at it with an overall approach.

00:11:53 Speaker 06: Just a quick question: On an average, how many people visit?

00:11:58 Speaker 06: Do we have any kind of data on how many people, on an average, visit that place?

00:12:04 Speaker 06: And since it's historical value, would it qualify under the heritage grant for future funding for this?

00:12:15 Speaker 06: Thank you for those questions.

00:12:18 Speaker 07: We talked about the number of people that use the tower as we were working on this report, and we really—it's not a location where we have trail counters.

00:12:26 Speaker 07: We just really have anecdotal data, you know, that says it gets well used.

00:12:33 Speaker 07: The second part of your question, it is not a designated property at this time, but it certainly does have heritage value.

00:12:43 Speaker 07: So it might be something that would help if we're looking for grant applications; you know, partnerships, heritage value, importance to the public, are always things that are on that list.

00:13:00 Speaker 08: I just wanted to say that this tower is as old as my marriage, and I can certainly see why it's crumbling and having some problems.

00:13:12 Speaker 08: Anyways, other than we all need to pick up things and make it work.

00:13:22 Speaker 08: So we do that.

00:13:24 Speaker 08: I just was curious again on granting and trying to make a community campaign out of this.

00:13:31 Speaker 08: I know there's probably one hundred good men that could maybe help with this project, or one hundred good women.

00:13:38 Speaker 08: Lots of groups, community groups that use this tower.

00:13:41 Speaker 08: I know.

00:13:42 Speaker 08: I've had a couple of calls lately, and my son as well, when he comes home to visit, likes to go to the tower, and he was amazed that it was closed.

00:13:50 Speaker 08: So, I think it's something that we really need to put some value into, and if we need to designate it to get some funding, I know we can't get that immediately,

00:13:59 Speaker 08: but it's going to take future maintenance as well.

00:14:04 Speaker 09: So, Marion, the tower isn't moving from one house to another, so that might change things a little bit, John.

00:14:11 Speaker 09: Through the Mayor, just a couple of questions, but starting off.

00:14:16 Speaker 10: My understanding was that when the Council of the Day, when the energetic teenagers in the '60s said we want to fundraise for this, that the Council committed to upkeep the property in perpetuity.

00:14:30 Speaker 10: Was my understanding is also that back when it was refurbished, that members of that committee came with the scrolls of city minutes from the time to say, "Hey, you promised."

00:14:43 Speaker 10: Do I guess do we?

00:14:45 Speaker 10: Have does that mean anything other than we have the obligation to upkeep all city facilities and if they fundraised and we got it,

00:14:51 Speaker 10: that just meant it was ours like what what does that relationship or obligation look like now?

00:14:59 Speaker 05: Yes, through you, the Mayor to Councillor Farmer, I don't believe staff came across any sort of historical memorandums of agreement or anything like that.

00:15:09 Speaker 05: But this is something that we definitely struggle with as a municipality.

00:15:13 Speaker 05: When we have new assets given to us or significantly fundraised or funded by third-party groups,

00:15:21 Speaker 05: is that typically it's a one-time project with that understanding or obligation that the City should be able to keep that up moving forward?

00:15:29 Speaker 05: And I think that's something that we all agree we probably haven't done the best job at.

00:15:34 Speaker 05: Every year we go through our operating budgets, and there's money dedicated towards all of these buildings, but there's not a set amount that we blanket put in for a specific building when we do this.

00:15:44 Speaker 05: So it's something that I think we've communicated over the last couple multi-year capital plans when we're talking about new assets or upgrades or expansion.

00:15:53 Speaker 05: This is kind of the conversation that when these groups are approaching us, we do have those conversations about how we're going to be able to fund that going forward,

00:16:00 Speaker 05: or we need to do a better job that when we're approaching Council to ask for those enhancements or projects that we identified to Council that this will increase our operating budget going forward.

00:16:10 Speaker 05: So, our staff do our best within what we have available, and I know we have money and staff have, as I said, done rehabilitation, minor repairs to this building,

00:16:20 Speaker 05: but we haven't been setting aside money into our reserve by any means to rehabilitate.

00:16:24 Speaker 05: It's similar to what we do with our bridges; like we are mandated to do those bridge inspections every two years, and it helps identify current needs, one to five-year needs, six to ten-year needs.

00:16:35 Speaker 05: We've never done something like that on our facilities or a structure like this to really help us forecast that into the future, so it puts us into these emergency situations.

00:16:46 Speaker 11: Yeah, I think we struggle with looking at capital assets in their like ongoing operational upkeep costs.

00:16:53 Speaker 11: I'm curious for some clarification around the state of the trail and what is closed, because that is identified as part of the Bruce Trail,

00:17:02 Speaker 11: and that I know folks would regularly access that from Fourth Street East as well, cutting up and then over is the entire trail section surrounding that closed at the moment.

00:17:14 Speaker 11: And yeah, what parts of that are what parts of that aren't?

00:17:21 Speaker 05: To Councillor Farmer, through you, Your Worship, the trail is open down to the tower.

00:17:27 Speaker 05: We closed it just at the tower, like the access point.

00:17:30 Speaker 05: GEI recommended closing it at that time, with understanding of more getting people onto the tower and it being up to a municipal class,

00:17:39 Speaker 05: but we recognize that this is a section of the Bruce Trail and it has that inherent cross-section that this is a natural trail, not a municipal developed trail.

00:17:50 Speaker 05: So we are confident and able to leave the Bruce Trail sections open around the tower.

00:17:57 Speaker 11: And so, through the Mayor, just to clarify, so this section underneath the like drawbridge, for lack of a better term, still open underneath.

00:18:03 Speaker 11: Don't go on the wood.

00:18:08 Speaker 09: Let's not forget what we're though we haven't actually moved the recommendation and need to, but we're focusing on the building.

00:18:15 Speaker 09: Go ahead, Your Worship.

00:18:18 Speaker 09: I would move the recommendation.

00:18:20 Speaker 12: However, I do have some questions.

00:18:22 Speaker 12: If I could proceed, I just need clarification.

00:18:27 Speaker 12: Thank you to the staff for helping put some of this information in hard copy.

00:18:32 Speaker 12: The unfunded items that we have.

00:18:36 Speaker 12: Do all of those unfunded items have a capital data sheet attached to them?

00:18:41 Speaker 12: So that would be my first request on a go-forward basis because you prioritize,

00:18:46 Speaker 12: and this is one that needs certainly to be part of all of those that help us as we move forward with decision making.

00:18:56 Speaker 12: On our capital data sheet, we don't have.

00:18:59 Speaker 12: I don't believe a designation for historical significance or impact, and I think as we move forward and we start looking, especially with our asset management strategy,

00:19:12 Speaker 12: that we need to have that historical perspective to help us as we go forward.

00:19:18 Speaker 12: My question specifically about this building is the concern around safety.

00:19:24 Speaker 12: We're in a different distinctive shift.

00:19:29 Speaker 12: Distinctive shifting sands, where people are living in a variety of areas in and around Owen Sound.

00:19:37 Speaker 12: I have a concern about the safety when the restrictions are taken down, the signs are removed.

00:19:44 Speaker 12: Is there a plan, or could there be a plan to enhance the safety perspective as we continue to secure this building while we await funding decisions?

00:20:03 Speaker 13: Through you, Your Worship, to Councillor Burton, we did just have some welding done in the lower part of the structure to make sure that there could be no access.

00:20:12 Speaker 13: I just asked the clerk, and perhaps she would indulge me.

00:20:15 Speaker 13: I think this is a site where we also use Fairmont Security to do a regular patrol as well.

00:20:23 Speaker 13: I think their signs are up there, but I'll confirm that.

00:20:27 Speaker 13: For sure for Council.

00:20:35 Speaker 13: Yep.

00:20:36 Speaker 13: Anything else?

00:20:36 Speaker 13: Yep.

00:20:37 Speaker 13: Thank you, through your Worship.

00:20:39 Speaker 04: That's kind of leaning into what my question was going to be: Is there still any sort of operating cost to the City, even as it sits, how it is now, going forward,

00:20:52 Speaker 04: and if it continues to sit, will it continue to degrade, and then costs will rise as we go forward?

00:21:01 Speaker 05: Through your Worship, to Councillor Mitro, yes.

00:21:03 Speaker 05: In the financial implications section, we did identify that we will include some additional operating costs into the draft 2026 operating budget to address items like this.

00:21:14 Speaker 05: Staff do have to regularly inspect the site, upgrade or replace signage, replace barriers, do that type of work,

00:21:21 Speaker 05: continue to remove graffiti if it's something that the City doesn't want on that structure at that time, but more importantly,

00:21:28 Speaker 05: we'll have to do this structural review fairly regularly as we move forward through this because we do anticipate that it will continue to deteriorate because of the nature of the construction, not the use.

00:21:40 Speaker 05: We don't believe the use was the factor that caused the deterioration.

00:21:43 Speaker 05: It was just the type of structure that it is.

00:21:45 Speaker 05: So, we will have to continue to do that until a long-term decision is made.

00:21:53 Speaker 05: Scott, a couple points here.

00:21:57 Speaker 14: I guess I'll need to be convinced on why we should be putting $170,000 as an item into the unfunded project for trail repairs.

00:22:10 Speaker 14: As it was stated, this is part of the Bruce Trail.

00:22:12 Speaker 14: That seems like an exorbitant amount of money.

00:22:15 Speaker 14: I think we probably should start at 8:30 this morning if you're going to try to convince me of the need of $170,000.

00:22:19 Speaker 14: Me of the need of one hundred seventy thousand dollars for a trail upgrade there.

00:22:23 Speaker 14: I think it's beyond excessive.

00:22:26 Speaker 14: It is a trail access for people.

00:22:29 Speaker 14: I'm going just to say in the general sense.

00:22:31 Speaker 14: Summit Place, in terms of the location, that's at the kind of the toe of the hill there.

00:22:37 Speaker 14: The next entry point to the Bruce Trail is essentially all the way down the first street at the south end of Seventh Avenue.

00:22:44 Speaker 14: So, it would be nice to have access for those residents to be able to access what's a great part of the Bruce Trail.

00:22:54 Speaker 14: Everyone locally calls it the Palisades.

00:22:57 Speaker 14: It's beautiful back in there.

00:22:58 Speaker 14: And actually, if you can just have trail open, the more eyes you can have out there is a benefit as opposed to having a secluded area where the public is not asked to be.

00:23:11 Speaker 14: So I hope that we can just keep our minds on if trying to do what we can just to maintain.

00:23:16 Speaker 14: Can just maintain trail access.

00:23:19 Speaker 14: Everything we do, we go to the Health Unit.

00:23:21 Speaker 14: The Health Unit will tell you we promote outdoor living, so I think we should align ourselves with that and not take steps to deny people access to nature in today's environment.

00:23:36 Speaker 14: So I'd like to move an amendment that the associated path of travel be removed from the motion, so the motion is only rehabilitation of the Centennial Tower.

00:23:49 Speaker 14: Staff can come back in the future, and you know what would be of interest to me is tell me what ten thousand dollars of work would look like, or forty thousand dollars,

00:24:01 Speaker 14: but one hundred seventy thousand dollars.

00:24:02 Speaker 14: I don't think the City is in the position to be able to consider affording such a dollar figure for a path of travel to a natural environment trail, like you cannot make this AODA compliant.

00:24:18 Speaker 14: There was a certain Councillor had his election campaign photo about six years ago, taken from the top of the tower.

00:24:25 Speaker 14: If I hear anything from people, it's that some of the trees need to be cut down so that public coming into Owen Sound can actually see again that there's a tower there.

00:24:36 Speaker 14: It's I haven't heard no complaints from hikers, people in the public about the quality of the trail other than the grass grows tall from Summit Place.

00:24:48 Speaker 14: Those are my comments.

00:24:50 Speaker 14: Go ahead.

00:24:51 Speaker 05: To the Deputy Mayor, through your Worship, just to clarify, we're not looking to upgrade like the Bruce Trail section of the trail system because this tower is possibly a facility or not.

00:25:05 Speaker 05: That's what we're treating it like.

00:25:06 Speaker 05: It is a facility.

00:25:07 Speaker 05: So when we do upgrades to facilities, to playgrounds, to those other types of assets, we have to have that lens on where we get people from the parking lot to that tower.

00:25:16 Speaker 05: So this is the section that takes you from the parking lot down to the tower.

00:25:20 Speaker 05: So it would be built on a cross-section that is fully accessible, but we wouldn't touch the rest of the Bruce Trail that goes through that area.

00:25:26 Speaker 05: So it's kind of that first mile, last mile connection for people, but more importantly, getting those people that if they have mobility devices, getting them to the base of the tower,

00:25:37 Speaker 05: not upgrading the Bruce Trail so that they can take it all across the city.

00:25:42 Speaker 09: Just before we go too much further, I think I have to recognize the motion to amend, so we can discuss it and discussing only it.

00:25:54 Speaker 14: I'll let my amendment stand, please, because it's exactly that.

00:25:59 Speaker 14: It's a tower.

00:26:01 Speaker 14: It's a spiral staircase inside.

00:26:04 Speaker 14: So just enhancing the path of travel seems to not achieve the objective of getting people to the top.

00:26:13 Speaker 14: There are limitations to what the tower has, and is presented on the inside.

00:26:19 Speaker 14: So it is accessible for what we can afford from the parking lot down to the tower at this point.

00:26:26 Speaker 14: And it's not accessible from the base of the tower to the top, other than the spiral staircase.

00:26:31 Speaker 14: This is on the amendment.

00:26:31 Speaker 14: Did you have your hand up?

00:26:34 Speaker 14: You do.

00:26:34 Speaker 14: Just an amendment, through your Worship.

00:26:37 Speaker 15: Just for clarification, it's not just for the public.

00:26:40 Speaker 15: If I read this correctly, it's also to allow vehicles for maintenance to be able to get to the tower.

00:26:48 Speaker 15: Within the descriptor, correct.

00:26:49 Speaker 15: So, assisting our staff, our facility staff, to be able to get to the tower requires amendments to that area as well for accessibility.

00:27:00 Speaker 15: So, it would be vehicle and staff accessibility, not just public accessibility.

00:27:05 Speaker 15: Correct?

00:27:08 Speaker 05: Through your Worship, Councillor Martin, yes, that would be like a secondary use to the trail, similar to our other trail systems.

00:27:14 Speaker 05: We do have small equipment that would need to access that site in order to maintain it moving forward.

00:27:20 Speaker 05: That being said, it's not the primary driver because these are generally utility vehicles that can access that area if they need to.

00:27:28 Speaker 05: Okay, so can I call the question on the amendment?

00:27:37 Speaker 16: That City Council remove and associated path of travel upgrades from the resolution.

00:27:45 Speaker 16: Okay, I'm going to call the question.

00:27:46 Speaker 16: All in favour?

00:27:47 Speaker 16: One, two, three, four, five, six.

00:27:50 Speaker 16: That is carried.

00:27:51 Speaker 09: So we are back to the amended recommendation.

00:27:56 Speaker 09: The only thing that I would add is, if this was 1967, those who were involved as students at the time are now somewhere between probably seventy-three and seventy-six,

00:28:05 Speaker 09: and if you wanted to reach out to those people to see if they do you know were the original square foot things were they one hundred bucks each?

00:28:16 Speaker 09: Do you know the price?

00:28:17 Speaker 09: I guess I should be asking Brady.

00:28:18 Speaker 09: Do you know?

00:28:23 Speaker 13: I don't know for certain, but we can do some work on that, and we can certainly connect with some of those people who I think are still around and involved with the community.

00:28:33 Speaker 09: I'm going to be talking to one of them who will be turning 75 in four days, five days.

00:28:44 Speaker 09: He will have the yearbook picture of everybody that was in that they could reach out to that maybe they can afford more than 100 bucks this time around.

00:28:51 Speaker 09: I'll call the question all in favour, and that is carried.

00:28:54 Speaker 09: Good.

00:28:55 Speaker 09: Thank you, Brady.

00:28:57 Speaker 09: I suspect for B, your next report will be shorter.

00:29:02 Speaker 09: I'm being sarcastic, just so people know.

00:29:05 Speaker 09: Go ahead.

00:29:08 Speaker 09: Thank you, Worship.

00:29:09 Speaker 09: Yes, this one is very short.

00:29:10 Speaker 05: I didn't even prepare any notes for it.

00:29:13 Speaker 05: The purpose of this report is to summarise the committee feedback for the 2026 to 2030 multi-year capital plan.

00:29:20 Speaker 05: As Council members are aware, and some of you got to see me multiple times, we presented the reports to the various committees throughout the month of May.

00:29:28 Speaker 05: Unlike last year, there was no kind of direct feedback that we really needed to bring back to Council.

00:29:35 Speaker 05: There was one resolution or motion from the Corporate Services Committee to address the fire station renovation expansion project, but that directed Council to have that conversation on June 2 at the special Council meeting.

00:29:49 Speaker 05: So we've addressed that, and everything else that was discussed at the group was just more clarification between committee members and staff that were present or present at those meetings.

00:29:58 Speaker 05: So there's nothing in addition to tonight, but we're just keeping this report in motion for future years, just to make sure that our process is consistent.

00:30:13 Speaker 08: I'll move a motion to receive the report for information.

00:30:17 Speaker 08: Any discussion on that, John?

00:30:20 Speaker 11: Through the Mayor, I do have questions about some specific capital budget pieces.

00:30:26 Speaker 11: And if we've got okay, I'm going through the capital detail sheets and sorry if I'm out of order on any of this, but Project 25 M5 connects back to water fountains.

00:30:43 Speaker 11: Back in 2023, we talked about; we passed a motion to the effect of reallocating some of that funding, or I think all of that funding, to specifically look at water fountains in public spaces outside,

00:30:59 Speaker 11: rather than just inside city facilities.

00:31:03 Speaker 11: I'm curious if anything happened with that resolution, and if so, where that stands and what we're planning.

00:31:15 Speaker 05: Through your Worship, to Councillor Farmer, I think maybe we'll just see what the Mayor's thoughts were.

00:31:20 Speaker 05: So that this question maybe can be parked and put into the projects for discussion in the multi-year capital plan.

00:31:26 Speaker 05: This report dealt with the feedback from the committees, and that wasn't one of the items that were brought up.

00:31:31 Speaker 05: So I just want to make sure we're kind of keeping in line.

00:31:33 Speaker 05: I'll jot it down for my projects for discussion in my presentation here, and we can circle back to that, hopefully in less than a couple hours.

00:31:42 Speaker 05: Good.

00:31:43 Speaker 05: So it'll come back up.

00:31:44 Speaker 09: Okay, on the report in front of us, we're good.

00:31:47 Speaker 09: Can I call the question?

00:31:48 Speaker 09: All in favour?

00:31:50 Speaker 09: That is carried.

00:31:53 Speaker 09: That was faster.

00:32:18 Speaker 09: All right.

00:32:19 Speaker 09: I think.

00:32:19 Speaker 09: All right.

00:32:19 Speaker 09: Thank you, Your Worship.

00:32:20 Speaker 05: Yes, this one's not quite as quick, but I do think it'll be quicker as we go through this process.

00:32:26 Speaker 05: This being the second year that we've vetted the capital plan through the committees, and as I indicated in that previous report,

00:32:33 Speaker 05: that we didn't receive feedback or direction really for anything to be pulled for council discussion directly.

00:32:41 Speaker 05: Some councillors had an opportunity to participate in the committee meetings, so they've had the chance to look at these projects.

00:32:47 Speaker 05: This is the second time, so maybe there are a couple of projects that have tweaked their mind and might want to come up.

00:32:55 Speaker 05: So the agenda for today.

00:32:56 Speaker 09: So Brady, just like last meeting, Travis really helped frame a question on a public meeting.

00:33:05 Speaker 09: On here, what are we looking for?

00:33:07 Speaker 09: We're looking specifically for things that should maybe be added into the capital or removed from the capital.

00:33:12 Speaker 09: Is that basically what we're going through this for?

00:33:14 Speaker 09: So if that frames the question, then that would maybe help if I'm accurate with that for council.

00:33:23 Speaker 09: Thank you, Your Worship.

00:33:24 Speaker 05: Yes, you're helping get through a couple of these slides for me too.

00:33:27 Speaker 05: But the intention today is that it's simply a presentation, so we're not approving the multi-year capital plan.

00:33:32 Speaker 05: We're just identifying any projects that should be discussed for clarification, anything added, anything removed,

00:33:41 Speaker 05: so that we take the feedback from the presentation today and we incorporate it today and we incorporate into a report for July 21st that has that comprehensive list so that by having that clarity coming

00:33:51 Speaker 05: out of today's meeting we can confirm it in July 21st and start to move forward with implementing the plan.

00:34:01 Speaker 05: All right.

00:34:01 Speaker 05: So the agenda for today is we'll go through the multi-year capital plan process.

00:34:04 Speaker 05: We'll identify at a high level the asset management and capital infrastructure gap.

00:34:09 Speaker 05: We'll identify the grants that we find out kind of after the annual operating budget exercises, we will quickly touch base on the 2025 project statuses for the projects that were identified in last year's presentation.

00:34:22 Speaker 05: Touch quickly on the capital plan items, not going through each project.

00:34:26 Speaker 05: We'll just have that opportunity for councillors to pull that list of projects that we'll defer to conversation at the end after the complete presentation.

00:34:35 Speaker 05: We'll go through the unfunded projects.

00:34:37 Speaker 05: We'll quickly talk about the project management software and the prioritization review, so that will be an opportunity for Council Merton, who brought up that idea two reports ago,

00:34:46 Speaker 05: about the historical context where that might fit into prioritization as we move forward and transition to the new software.

00:34:53 Speaker 05: And then, as I said, the preference would be to kind of put those projects for discussion, kind of at the end of the presentation today, once Council has had an opportunity to review our grants,

00:35:02 Speaker 05: our funded projects, our unfunded projects, prioritization, to really have the whole picture before we get into a comprehensive discussion about adding or deleting a project as we go along.

00:35:15 Speaker 05: The multi-year capital plan process is that we have a five-year multi-year capital plan.

00:35:21 Speaker 05: Sorry, multi-year capital plan that spans five years.

00:35:22 Speaker 05: We're one of the few municipalities that do this across Grey County, but we also add in that ability to update it halfway through the year.

00:35:32 Speaker 05: So the benefit of the multi-year capital plan, I know I do every year, so I won't go into complete detail about.

00:35:37 Speaker 05: But it just gives staff that flexibility to be able to adjust those projects, but also gives us the clarity about what's coming down the line in the future,

00:35:44 Speaker 05: so we can look at bundling projects together to get those economies of scale by having the approval now for 2026 projects.

00:35:52 Speaker 05: It gives staff that clear direction to start to work towards the tender documents, so we can put those out towards the end of the year, early next year,

00:35:58 Speaker 05: and be the first out of the gate to post tenders.

00:36:01 Speaker 05: And when there's still a lot of competition in the area, it does produce cost savings, as we've seen over.

00:36:05 Speaker 05: Use cost savings as we've seen over the last couple of years with some of our roof projects and our washing projects by bundling these projects together.

00:36:13 Speaker 05: But the key part of this is that it's also a two-way street.

00:36:17 Speaker 05: So as much as staff get the benefit out of this, council also gets the benefit out of this by looking at this twice a year.

00:36:22 Speaker 05: So provided that a project we don't have a contract in place to do construction or to work on a project, or we haven't committed to purchasing something,

00:36:31 Speaker 05: this gives council the opportunity to take community feedback over the course of the six months between these two meetings, to bring anything back to staff at that time, or request any adjustments,

00:36:42 Speaker 05: or if a new grant opportunity comes out, allows us that opportunity to be flexible and move some projects around to ensure that we are able to fund the different grants.

00:36:51 Speaker 05: So I think that's the benefit of the multi-year capital plan process, and by also engaging the committees early in the process, we've got some good feedback over the last couple years.

00:37:03 Speaker 05: A couple tweaks.

00:37:05 Speaker 05: But it generally just allows staff to understand where these committee members value some of the items or some of the things that we need to consider about as we're actually implementing the projects around signage

00:37:13 Speaker 05: or those little areas that we maybe not necessarily forgot about or we didn't think was core,

00:37:19 Speaker 05: but we understand from the community that it's something that we need to consider.

00:37:27 Speaker 05: So the committee feedback process, we went through a very similar presentation.

00:37:31 Speaker 05: We didn't add the high level.

00:37:31 Speaker 05: We didn't add the high-level areas like grant funding because ultimately that's up to council to kind of determine where we allocate those funds or request that we adjust those.

00:37:41 Speaker 05: And we go through the project discussion.

00:37:43 Speaker 05: As I indicated in my last report, the only project that we required additional consideration for was the fire station renovation and expansion project,

00:37:51 Speaker 05: and we discussed that in the June 2nd council meeting as a separate item and included the updated amount into this multi-year capital plan that's presented today.

00:38:05 Speaker 05: The 2026 to 2030 multi-year capital plan includes $91 million in funded projects, of which $30 million is Ontario Community Infrastructure Fund gas tax grants or other third-party sources.

00:38:22 Speaker 05: So, approximately one-third of our capital programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe is funded by external third-party programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememes.

00:38:28 Speaker 05: We have over 200 capital projects, which is quite an astounding number when you look at the staffing resources that it takes to support those projects.

00:38:38 Speaker 05: We also have $33 million in unfunded projects that I'll talk about a little bit later in the presentation.

00:38:43 Speaker 05: And this is, I think, our second or third year where we've included both the tax and the user rate supported projects.

00:38:48 Speaker 05: So councils are aware of how we process our water and wastewater budgets annually.

00:38:53 Speaker 05: We make sure that those documents in May are also used to form the June and December updates for the capital plan.

00:38:58 Speaker 05: as well.

00:39:03 Speaker 05: Asset management is a key component of this multi-year capital plan.

00:39:07 Speaker 05: And looking back over the last couple years of this presentation, this number, the amount of money that we've spent on asset management related activities, being the rehabilitation, the replacement, or the maintenance of existing assets,

00:39:22 Speaker 05: this number has gone up.

00:39:23 Speaker 05: I think the previous two plans were somewhere around the low 80s for percentage-wise.

00:39:27 Speaker 05: Now we're up to 91% of our projects being dedicated towards maintaining those existing assets.

00:39:34 Speaker 05: It's even supplemented a little bit further by that studies and consulting category because generally those are studies that look at those assets and how we can utilise them in the going forward,

00:39:44 Speaker 05: or to determining the costs for those asset management-related activities.

00:39:49 Speaker 05: You'll see through the unfunded project list that many of these unfunded projects are kind of extreme upgrades or enhancements or new assets, and that's why they are typically in the unfunded.

00:39:59 Speaker 05: Because we are struggling to fund even our asset management activities of those assets that we currently have, and such as the tower that we just recently discussed.

00:40:12 Speaker 05: Building on that, and kind of a precursor to the asset management draft 2025 asset management plan that will be finalized and presented to the Corporate Services Committee on July 10th, where July 10th,

00:40:23 Speaker 05: we're identifying some of the key areas that we're going through as we're working on that plan.

00:40:29 Speaker 05: Based on the data that we have, the total funding gap for all asset classes is $38 million dollars.

00:40:36 Speaker 05: Of that, $11 million dollars is tax-supported funding gap.

00:40:39 Speaker 05: So that's our roads, our bridges, our parks and rec, our IT, our facilities, with the remainder being $27 million dollars for the water and wastewater user-supported funding gap.

00:40:50 Speaker 05: As much as we have that new wastewater plant and we have some decent facilities.

00:40:54 Speaker 05: We have a lot of aging infrastructure, and one of the key messages from the asset management presentation will be us spending more time doing the condition assessments and evaluation of those,

00:41:06 Speaker 05: because we more or less fall on an age-based system.

00:41:10 Speaker 05: So we know that we have some potentially 100-year-old water mains in the ground, but best practices say to replace that water main after 80 years.

00:41:17 Speaker 05: Well, we know we're getting some life out of it,

00:41:19 Speaker 05: so we need to spend some time looking at and building a model that reflects our current situation to hopefully bring that number down a little bit.

00:41:28 Speaker 05: The dedicated levy increase that's built into the multi-year capital plan is an additional one percent of the prior year's tax-supported increase that was based on the 2013 asset management plan,

00:41:38 Speaker 05: and we haven't updated it since then.

00:41:41 Speaker 05: That amount hasn't been adjusted for inflation or any other considerations based on that information.

00:41:47 Speaker 05: But we do have updated the replacement costs to the 2022, 2024, and the 2025 asset management plan.

00:41:52 Speaker 05: So we are continuing to index those replacement costs because it's a key component to our Ontario Community Infrastructure Fund reporting process each year.

00:42:04 Speaker 05: Back then, the one percent was dedicated towards roads and bridges and those core assets only.

00:42:09 Speaker 05: However, over the last couple of years, some of that funding has been utilised for those non-core assets.

00:42:15 Speaker 05: Going back through the minutes from last December's multi-year capital plan update.

00:42:20 Speaker 05: There's still a motion from that meeting that was that, in consideration of staff report CR 24-143, respecting the multi-year capital plan update,

00:42:29 Speaker 05: city staff directed staff to increase the dedicated annual increase for the capital budget from one to two.

00:42:35 Speaker 05: That was deferred until today's meeting, and I think understanding that council has not received the 2025 asset management plan and it hasn't gone out for consultation.

00:42:47 Speaker 05: Staff's recommendation would be to defer that motion until this fall, until such time that council has reviewed the 2025 asset management plan.

00:42:58 Speaker 05: And at that point, we still can have the discussion about whether we want to put that amount in or whether we believe that additional asset management-related work should occur.

00:43:08 Speaker 05: And I think that's stemming from the July or June 2nd special council session,

00:43:12 Speaker 05: where we talked about levels of service and determining what that's going to do will then allow us to determine our asset management strategies, which will then allow us to determine our financing strategy.

00:43:22 Speaker 05: Staff, we always agree that we can use the money, but we want to make sure that everybody is on board.

00:43:27 Speaker 05: Where that if we do an increase from one to two percent,

00:43:29 Speaker 05: we want to be able to tell the story of where that money is going to go and how it's going to impact the community.

00:43:34 Speaker 05: We also need to have the conversation as a larger group about the staff's ability to deliver on that many more capital projects.

00:43:42 Speaker 05: We have 200 capital projects on this list right now, and it is a struggle for staff to deliver that many projects.

00:43:48 Speaker 05: By increasing this funding and adding more projects, a conversation will need to be had about our ability to do that as well.

00:43:57 Speaker 09: So, Briana, do we need a motion to defer then to the that motion to the presentation of the asset management?

00:44:09 Speaker 09: Through you, Your Worship, we will.

00:44:10 Speaker 09: But I do have a.

00:44:11 Speaker 16: We will, but I do have it listed later on in today's agenda.

00:44:14 Speaker 16: Thank you.

00:44:19 Speaker 16: Thank you.

00:44:20 Speaker 05: The next part of the presentation is updating council on the grants that the city receives and have been included in the 2026 to 2030 multi-year capital plan.

00:44:31 Speaker 05: The big ticket items that are kind of the annual programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememes that we've come to expect are the Ontario Community Infrastructure Fund, which is dedicated towards the city's core assets.

00:44:41 Speaker 05: The 2026 to 2030 plan includes $16.6 million in this funding.

00:44:46 Speaker 05: Another grant that we receive annually is the Canada Community Building Fund, that's about $700,000 per year, and it's dedicated only to the annual roads rehabilitation programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe.

00:44:57 Speaker 05: So we have about $3.6 million in funding from 2026 to 2030, in part because we're using some of the surplus funds from some previous construction projects,

00:45:07 Speaker 05: or from the interest that is generated in that account to fund the transportation master plan project in 2028.

00:45:12 Speaker 05: And then we have a couple other grant opportunities that were discussed at the operations committee meeting.

00:45:21 Speaker 05: The Housing Enabling Core Servicing Fund.

00:45:25 Speaker 05: There's a lot of housing enabling funding and programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe acronyms right now.

00:45:29 Speaker 05: This is the one that's included because the other programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe is currently dedicated to 2025 project, so it's not mentioned today.

00:45:35 Speaker 05: As well as our recent success with some Connecting Link programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememes, as well.

00:45:41 Speaker 05: The Ontario Community Infrastructure Fund is confirmed and dedicated until 2027.

00:45:47 Speaker 05: However, we do not anticipate that programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe going away.

00:45:51 Speaker 05: The province is the one that's dictating the municipalities to do asset management planning, and we anticipate that this is how they will reward those municipalities for doing the work,

00:46:01 Speaker 05: but also reward those municipalities that take asset management planning seriously.

00:46:05 Speaker 05: So we have to make sure that we're constantly doing our reporting, providing them with accurate information, developing a good asset management plan, so that as they continue to allocate those funds towards municipalities,

00:46:16 Speaker 05: if they base it on some sort of merit related to this, we're setting ourselves up to be in a good spot.

00:46:22 Speaker 05: We're hoping that it could potentially be dedicated to other asset classes, but I think that's just going to move one of our funding problems to another funding issue.

00:46:31 Speaker 05: It's not indicating that they're going to increase those.

00:46:32 Speaker 05: Indicating that they're going to increase this funding going further.

00:46:35 Speaker 05: So as the province's funding gaps continue to increase, hopefully we see some indexing on there, and that also increases that funding.

00:46:43 Speaker 05: And I think it's very important that we submit our asset management plan so that they can have data to support this.

00:46:47 Speaker 05: It's not just us going it with our hands out.

00:46:51 Speaker 05: with a number saying here's what our funding deficit should be or is.

00:46:56 Speaker 05: Another part to the OSEF funding is that in the operating budget this year, we were permitted to allocate up to $80,000 from this funding towards the staff time for our asset management team, including myself,

00:47:11 Speaker 05: our asset management coordinator, and our GIS coordinator.

00:47:14 Speaker 05: We're allowed to take that money and put it towards so that offset the operating budget increase.

00:47:19 Speaker 05: And as I said, we are permitted to do that, and it's submitted on all of our reports.

00:47:24 Speaker 05: We are also allocating about $125,000 to $150,000 each year over the next five years towards condition assessment, so it's doing those building condition assessments,

00:47:34 Speaker 05: our roads needs inspections that are going to be discussed at this week's operations committee, some parks and trails inspections this year,

00:47:41 Speaker 05: some playground inspections to help us determine our current asset inventory and the condition that it's in, so that we can use this information for data-driven decision making rather than solely relying on using age-based condition.

00:47:55 Speaker 05: We can actually go out and have somebody identify those plans, help us build our ten-year capital plan.

00:48:00 Speaker 05: that are required in the asset management plan.

00:48:02 Speaker 05: Off of that, and have it supported by data.

00:48:05 Speaker 05: The surplus at the end of the five years is shown at about $4 million dollars.

00:48:11 Speaker 05: This has not been allocated in part because we're continuing to wait on the receipt of the stormwater management master plan.

00:48:19 Speaker 05: It's one of the areas that we know we have needs, but until we have that plan in hand and approved,

00:48:23 Speaker 05: we're not necessarily sure which projects we should allocate it towards or use our what percentage.

00:48:27 Speaker 05: You are what percentage of this?

00:48:29 Speaker 05: But we also identified through the operations committee that we do some sidewalk inspections, but we don't necessarily have a comprehensive asset management plan for our sidewalks.

00:48:38 Speaker 05: This would be another eligible product, so we're holding this in until we can do some more asset-related data for those core assets that are eligible under this programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe.

00:48:50 Speaker 05: Sorry, Councillor Koepke.

00:48:56 Speaker 05: Thank you, Deputy Mayor Greig.

00:48:59 Speaker 08: Through you to Brady, the jump in funding from 26 to 27 is huge in the total planned spending.

00:49:11 Speaker 08: Are we over-anticipating, or is that already confirmed that we're getting that money?

00:49:19 Speaker 05: Through you, Deputy Mayor, to Councillor Cupkey.

00:49:23 Speaker 05: Yes.

00:49:23 Speaker 05: So that we know we have a commitment.

00:49:25 Speaker 05: from the province until the end of 2027.

00:49:28 Speaker 05: After that, we're not sure.

00:49:30 Speaker 05: As I said, we highly anticipate that we will continue to receive that funding, and in consultation with the treasurer, she's confident that we can go into a negative balance in that reserve.

00:49:42 Speaker 05: And as you will see by 2029, we will come back out of it, assuming that these projects are fully costed at that amount over this time.

00:49:50 Speaker 05: We saw from the Alpha Street project last year by getting it out tendered early and combining some lengths of road similar to what we're doing with Fourth Ave,

00:49:59 Speaker 05: we're hoping for some economies of scale that can bring that eight-nine million dollars down next spring as well.

00:50:08 Speaker 05: Councillor Middlebro', then Councillor Merton.

00:50:15 Speaker 05: Thank you, through you, Deputy Mayor Greig.

00:50:17 Speaker 17: So that was also going to be my question on two thousand and twenty-seven.

00:50:20 Speaker 17: So when we go into the deficit in the reserve of two point four, two point five million, like where is that?

00:50:28 Speaker 17: Like, how do you go into a reserve deficit?

00:50:31 Speaker 17: Where is that money coming from to make up for that?

00:50:44 Speaker 17: I'm sorry, forgot how to use this thing.

00:50:46 Speaker 18: Through you, Mr. Chair, we aim to sort of allocate projects into this continuity based on a start year, so that's the first item to keep in mind:

00:50:58 Speaker 18: is that just because it's allocated in two thousand and twenty-seven, it may actually go over a few years.

00:51:03 Speaker 18: So we're not necessarily paying that money out in that year.

00:51:05 Speaker 18: So although this is an allocation, it's not a cash flow.

00:51:10 Speaker 18: So we may have those payments later.

00:51:12 Speaker 18: Also, we maintain our cash balances through a variety of accounts.

00:51:16 Speaker 18: So if this were to go into a negative, we would be able to temporarily borrow from another reserve in order to ensure that overall we're in a positive cash flows position.

00:51:30 Speaker 18: Through you, both of you.

00:51:32 Speaker 12: I just want to step back for a moment before we get into the detail, which I'm sure we're all anxious to do.

00:51:42 Speaker 12: As I look at this, whether we increase, and we're going to talk about deferring that amount, but no matter how we look at this,

00:51:52 Speaker 12: we do not have enough money to pay for the facilities and the assets that we currently have.

00:52:02 Speaker 12: So as you're describing staff time and you talk about adding on, but even without adding on any assets, we don't have the funding.

00:52:12 Speaker 12: In addition, we talk about what do we need to do to maintain and sustain our assets.

00:52:20 Speaker 12: I'm not hearing a conversation yet.

00:52:24 Speaker 12: What do we need to keep, and what are the tough decisions?

00:52:29 Speaker 12: We know where the tax appetite isn't, and I have a concern that that we, as a council and staff, need to sit down, roll up our sleeves, really look closely at this asset management,

00:52:47 Speaker 12: as well as our capital budget, and start to say, "Here is the money we know we have, including the grants coming forward.

00:52:57 Speaker 12: If we need to make the decisions to continue to afford our assets, what do we need to start saying?

00:53:06 Speaker 12: Nice to have, need to have, or they're in between.

00:53:11 Speaker 12: We've been through this process, and I really appreciate the expertise that everyone brings to the table.

00:53:17 Speaker 12: I feel we need to start making those tough conversations and decisions—not even necessarily to implement, but to have a plan.

00:53:30 Speaker 12: Because no matter what grants we get, funding we get, there is a gap, and we're now talking about unfunded projects and potentially funded projects.

00:53:42 Speaker 12: And I think it's time that we even just had it laid out.

00:53:47 Speaker 12: What if?

00:53:49 Speaker 12: What can we do?

00:53:50 Speaker 12: Staff time, financially.

00:53:54 Speaker 12: Consideration of our tax base, and how do we move forward so that we keep the assets we have, keep them in good condition, and move forward?

00:54:04 Speaker 12: I am very concerned.

00:54:07 Speaker 19: Scott, I would just say through the Mayor, I don't disagree with you, but your conversation might be one we have at three thirty today, or in July.

00:54:15 Speaker 19: Right now, we're just looking at the house staff or forecasting, applying the OCIF.

00:54:20 Speaker 19: So I think we'll get our opportunities more so, but might just be a little bit early for that discussion yet.

00:54:33 Speaker 19: Yes, thank you, Worship.

00:54:34 Speaker 05: We're moving on to the Canada Community Building Fund, or for some of you that have been on council longer than five years, the federal gas tax funding programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe.

00:54:44 Speaker 05: So if you say either one of them, we as staff know which one we're talking about.

00:54:49 Speaker 05: This is federal funding that's allocated to the province and then is issued and administered by the Association of Municipalities of Ontario on a five-year basis.

00:54:59 Speaker 05: The city recently signed, I think it was last year, our five-year agreement with them.

00:55:03 Speaker 05: So this funding is locked in for the duration of this plan.

00:55:08 Speaker 05: The funding programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe is a little more comprehensive than the OSEP funding programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe, in that there's eligible 19 different funding or 19 different asset categories that we can fund out of this programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe.

00:55:22 Speaker 05: Historically, and until we have that comprehensive talk about financing strategies related to the asset management plan,

00:55:28 Speaker 05: our recommendation is to continue to fund the annual road rehabilitation programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe because that is the target that's been given to our engineering staff to work toward annually.

00:55:37 Speaker 05: However, as I said, we have used that funding where there's been some savings in prior year asphalt programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememes,

00:55:44 Speaker 05: or where there's been interest generated because these have to be interest-bearing accounts that the city saves the money into.

00:55:50 Speaker 05: We can utilise that to fund some of the other projects that are eligible.

00:55:55 Speaker 05: So an example of this year is the rehabilitation of the Julie MacArthur Regional Recreation Centre roof that was recently awarded through a tender.

00:56:04 Speaker 05: And then we are also proposing to use it for the transportation master plan upgrade because it does have that kind of asset management lens to that, but also is supporting our existing road categories.

00:56:16 Speaker 05: So the closing balance at the end of five years is relatively low.

00:56:20 Speaker 05: It's at a number that we're comfortable with from a contingency standpoint because council is aware of some of the recent asphalt tender prices that have come back where we've needed kind of some additional funding

00:56:29 Speaker 05: or we've had to reallocate.

00:56:30 Speaker 05: So this gives us a bit of a buffer for that, or allows us to use that money for potentially stacking onto future grant applications.

00:56:44 Speaker 05: That's when I used to be gas tax.

00:56:47 Speaker 20: I always struggle to just completely comprehend exactly how much money we get each year in that, because it's bumping along at seven hundred thousand, then all of a sudden there's a hiccup,

00:56:59 Speaker 20: or there's a hiccup up.

00:57:00 Speaker 20: Like, what is the exact number that comes through on the CCBF?

00:57:06 Speaker 20: Is there an exactness that you can give me over a few years without those variations?

00:57:14 Speaker 05: To the Deputy Mayor, through your Worship, so it's on the top line of the table there.

00:57:19 Speaker 05: So we are receiving seven hundred and seven, well, seven hundred eight thousand dollars next year.

00:57:24 Speaker 05: Then it's increasing to seven hundred thirty-six thousand in twenty twenty-seven and beyond.

00:57:29 Speaker 05: There was one year where it was a bit of a blip down, and it was tied to a prior year census.

00:57:34 Speaker 05: So I think I can't remember was the 2016 or 2021 census.

00:57:37 Speaker 05: I think Old Town's population went stagnant or a little bit lower, so it reduced that amount based on that.

00:57:43 Speaker 05: So it's strictly more based on the census information than kind of tying it back to the city's asset management plan or anything that's data driven.

00:57:52 Speaker 05: So I think in the future, if our population increases, this number theoretically should increase, provided that there's no other changes.

00:57:59 Speaker 05: But because this is locked in until 2029 or 2030, we won't see the impacts of that probably for another five to ten years.

00:58:13 Speaker 05: Also included in the 2026 to 2030 multi-year capital plan is some other grant funding programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememes.

00:58:18 Speaker 05: So the MTO Connecting Link Programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe 25P13 for the 16th Street East Pedestrian Tunnel Rehabilitation.

00:58:26 Speaker 05: We kind of laid low on this back in May because we didn't receive official confirmation, but I believe it's in the queue and was announced early last week or late the week prior to that.

00:58:35 Speaker 05: So this will be for the pedestrian tunnel that goes underneath Highway Twenty-Six out towards the edge of town.

00:58:41 Speaker 05: The other project that is included in the programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe is the Housing Enabling Core Servicing Stream,

00:58:47 Speaker 05: and this is Project 25P12 for the rehabilitation and reconstruction of Ninth Ave from Twenty-Eighth Street East to Twenty-Third Street East,

00:58:55 Speaker 05: and some of the infrastructure and assets that are on the roads stemming off of that road.

00:59:01 Speaker 05: This was the project that, in the December update, you recall that we submitted a grant application for, but we had our share of the project as unfunded.

00:59:10 Speaker 05: We have found funding sources that are identified in the Twenty-Five P-Twelve Capital Detail Sheet, including using some of our OSF funding, some development charges,

00:59:19 Speaker 05: and some reserves based on prior developer contributions to fund the city.

00:59:22 Speaker 05: To fund the city's share of that programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe, so we were able to fit it into the programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe without cancelling another project.

00:59:28 Speaker 05: So that was something that we worked over the last six months with staff in order to do that to support the city's share of that project.

00:59:39 Speaker 05: It's going into another funding source is that debentures.

00:59:48 Speaker 05: This was the first year that I've done this presentation where we have included debentures in the twenty.

00:59:51 Speaker 05: Have included debentures in the 2026 to 2030 multi-year capital plan,

00:59:55 Speaker 05: but we did identify over the last couple of years that we always had the intention of using this funding source to fund the fire station renovation and expansion project.

01:00:04 Speaker 05: So we discussed that as staff and council on or June 2, we confirmed the $4.6 million for the construction component of the project to be funded from debentures moving forward.

01:00:16 Speaker 05: Looking at the levels of service, asset management strategies, financing strategies.

01:00:22 Speaker 05: Staff will take a look at our debt capacity moving forward and some of the other debt payments that are coming off,

01:00:28 Speaker 05: and will likely consider at that time potential uses of debt based on those projects.

01:00:33 Speaker 05: But once again, tying back to the levels of service and supporting the projects with data rather than me just going and funding unfunded projects off the list because we have that capacity moving forward.

01:00:49 Speaker 05: Moving into the 2025 capital plan update, I won't go through each one of these projects' sheets in detail.

01:00:56 Speaker 05: I'll just kind of pause over top of it.

01:00:58 Speaker 05: If council has a question about one of the corporate services projects that are identified as in progress, deferred, or not started, we'll just take a pause and ask because we have the directors here.

01:01:08 Speaker 05: If not, I'll move on to the next part of the presentation.

01:01:16 Speaker 05: I do have a couple.

01:01:16 Speaker 05: The first one is a few years ago.

01:01:19 Speaker 20: We really did greenlight converting the building at the top of Nine Bends Ravine Trail in Greenwood Cemetrey, the mausoleum, I believe.

01:01:30 Speaker 20: Where is that in terms of status update currently?

01:01:34 Speaker 20: That's been a few years now sitting there, and I don't think anything's happening.

01:01:40 Speaker 13: Through your worship, it was a big topic at Doors Open this weekend.

01:01:45 Speaker 13: We had provided the two volunteers at the site with the concept plan from John Rutledge.

01:01:52 Speaker 13: Actually, so John Rutledge, he's the architect for the project.

01:01:58 Speaker 13: There was a bit of a delay.

01:01:59 Speaker 13: Staff had provided feedback to him before Christmas.

01:02:02 Speaker 13: He was off for a little bit, but we just received the drawings Friday afternoon.

01:02:06 Speaker 13: They've been circulated to staff, and we hope to get a tender out soon.

01:02:15 Speaker 13: This isn't the mausoleum building.

01:02:17 Speaker 13: It's a church, right?

01:02:18 Speaker 13: Yeah.

01:02:19 Speaker 13: Okay.

01:02:19 Speaker 13: Thanks.

01:02:22 Speaker 13: Thanks.

01:02:22 Speaker 14: I think we were discussing converting it to a different, yeah, different use, yeah, columbarium, something, yeah.

01:02:29 Speaker 14: And thanks for the answer because that was going back to the last term of council.

01:02:35 Speaker 14: The item.

01:02:39 Speaker 14: Let's see where.

01:02:44 Speaker 14: One of the items is and now where'd it go?

01:02:49 Speaker 14: Cathodic protection rehab, $275,000.

01:02:52 Speaker 14: It's in progress.

01:02:53 Speaker 14: I thought that we had had to defer that programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe because of the unexpected addition of Seventeenth-Eighteenth Avenue sanitary, perhaps from Seventeenth Street to Twentieth Street, perhaps on.

01:03:11 Speaker 14: Perhaps I'm thinking last year, but I just recall one of the years of cathodic protection I thought got deferred.

01:03:19 Speaker 14: Laura, any idea?

01:03:21 Speaker 05: Or oh, to the Deputy Mayor through your worship, you're right in thinking that it's a rate-supported project.

01:03:30 Speaker 05: But the project that was deferred is on the wastewater side of things.

01:03:33 Speaker 05: It was the relining programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe, the inner relining programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe, that is going towards funding the emergency wastewater repairs.

01:03:40 Speaker 05: On Sixteenth Ave.

01:03:43 Speaker 05: The cathodic project, or cathodic protection rehab project, was awarded by Council a month or two ago for this year to do Sixteenth Ave.

01:03:55 Speaker 05: Conveniently on the other side of Highway 26 for the Water Department.

01:04:03 Speaker 20: Okay, and third question for an update: Inner Harbor waste receptacle upgrades, $80,000.

01:04:08 Speaker 20: Septic upgrades, $80,000 in progress.

01:04:09 Speaker 20: We had a motion last year, 2024, that half that we could achieve the same objective, and it was a $40,000 line item.

01:04:18 Speaker 20: So why do I see $80,000 again?

01:04:21 Speaker 20: I'm just wondering how can our system perhaps be improved so that as a councillor, when you're reading through this, a flag doesn't go up and we're like, well,

01:04:31 Speaker 20: why does this revert back to old information?

01:04:34 Speaker 20: Because I, it's hard to follow through then.

01:04:39 Speaker 20: To the Deputy Mayor through your worship, yes.

01:04:41 Speaker 20: So that is corrected.

01:04:43 Speaker 05: On like this was kind of a forward-facing document, and our capital progress sheet had we provided that, like we do in December, you would see the $40,000.

01:04:51 Speaker 05: So just this didn't have opportunity to put all the different asterisks on that amount, but it is reduced to that $40,000, and it's in progress.

01:05:01 Speaker 20: And with the new software, the budgeting software, will it offer that opportunity to provide, you know, real-time corrections so that we don't see those types of old numbers appearing?

01:05:17 Speaker 20: Like, is that something that we can correct with that new software?

01:05:22 Speaker 05: Through your worship of the Deputy Mayor, yes.

01:05:30 Speaker 05: Through the Mayor, just going back to the sheet for corporate services.

01:05:32 Speaker 11: Could staff just provide some clarification on the timing proposed for the community engagement citizen satisfaction surveys, acknowledging that that's changing and that there are different dates in different places?

01:05:49 Speaker 05: Yes, through your worship, Councillor Farmer, that project is identified in the updated plan for 2026.

01:05:55 Speaker 05: So the capital detail sheet has been reflected, as well as the approved project list for that as well in 2029.

01:06:02 Speaker 05: In 2029.

01:06:13 Speaker 05: Thank you, Your Worship.

01:06:15 Speaker 05: So we are now moving into the 2020 to 2026 top public-facing projects.

01:06:21 Speaker 05: We have identified five of them, mostly or majority of them coming from our engineering department.

01:06:28 Speaker 05: One from parks and open spaces, and one from strategic initiatives.

01:06:32 Speaker 05: We kind of pulled out some of like the standard programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememes, so the bunker gear.

01:06:36 Speaker 05: Like we just went solely on the prioritization number, we wouldn't be able to give you really a lot of projects that the public necessarily sees, or in the case of bunker gear,

01:06:43 Speaker 05: they don't necessarily really want to see the new bunker gear show up their house.

01:06:46 Speaker 05: So we focused on the ones that we anticipate that the media would pick up on, or councillors would get the most phone calls about over the next couple of years.

01:06:57 Speaker 05: So the kind of our top project every year is that annual asphalt and concrete replacement or our road rehabilitation programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe.

01:07:05 Speaker 05: There was a report I think back in March that identified the 2026 projects at that time,

01:07:10 Speaker 05: as well as there's a follow-up report this year on the inspection system that helps determine the prioritization of those funds.

01:07:18 Speaker 05: This programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe will continue to evolve as we go along our asset management journey and start to tie it back to levels of service and where we want to maintain.

01:07:26 Speaker 05: But the goal of the programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe right now is to maintain those roads at an average pavement condition index of 70.

01:07:32 Speaker 05: So that's the target that's used when staff are going through trying to find those roads that, a, once you take the water and wastewater pipes out of, if there's a larger need, then b,

01:07:42 Speaker 05: they focus on which one's going to give us kind of that best bang for the buck in order to maintain that overall PCI.

01:07:47 Speaker 05: We'll continue to do that as we evolve.

01:07:53 Speaker 05: The next project is Ninth Avenue East, 20th to 23rd Street, so the engineering would probably start sometime late this fall into the winter months.

01:08:02 Speaker 05: Construction won't start in this case in 2026, but I imagine as the design process goes along, there'll be opportunity for the public engagement to be incorporated into that for the future design.

01:08:12 Speaker 05: So the public will hear about it, but they won't necessarily see it in 2026.

01:08:19 Speaker 05: The next project is Kelsey Beach at Nawash Park Playground.

01:08:22 Speaker 05: This was another one that got updated through the December update with the commitment from the Scenic City Order of Good Cheer.

01:08:31 Speaker 05: So the design work will start this year on it in anticipation of the construction starting next year for this project.

01:08:41 Speaker 05: The next project is Fourth Avenue West from Fifteenth Street to Seventeenth Street West.

01:08:47 Speaker 05: The engineering is going to go.

01:08:49 Speaker 05: This engineering RFE I think will go out sometime very shortly, and the design work will start in order to kind of expedite the process.

01:08:58 Speaker 05: The engineering team has gone out for some additional surveying to have that work done early in the process, rather than having the consultant then line it up and start that work this fall.

01:09:08 Speaker 05: It is anticipated that that work will be completed shortly and handed over to the consultant in order to get the project going.

01:09:18 Speaker 05: And then the final top five is the strategic initiatives led project for the initiative-led project for the digital message signage replacements at the Julie MacArthur Regional Recreation Centre and the Bayshore,

01:09:29 Speaker 05: replacing the currently broken sign at the Julie MacArthur and replacing the sign at the Bayshore that requires manual inputting with that digital signage that can be controlled by the Communications team to share consistent messaging

01:09:43 Speaker 05: across both signs if needed.

01:09:45 Speaker 05: The key part of that is in the last line of the slide is that the project will be reliant on finding a sponsor or multiple sponsors to cover the complete cost.

01:09:55 Speaker 05: There is a service delivery review project that's related to sponsorship coming up towards end of the year.

01:09:59 Speaker 05: So I suspect that while Michelle and her team are kind of building the specifications on that project,

01:10:03 Speaker 05: that's going to be kind of the first step taken is determine how they can approach receiving the sponsorship or soliciting sponsorship for these signs for construction in next year.

01:10:19 Speaker 05: So that's the end of the top five projects for 2026, moving us over into the unfunded capital.

01:10:27 Speaker 05: So these projects have been identified as important projects, or projects that have come up through some sort of community feedback.

01:10:33 Speaker 05: They've come up through master planning exercises over the last couple years, but unfortunately, we are unable to find funding for them,

01:10:41 Speaker 05: or the prioritization scoring for them hasn't met any point where they're able to be built into the five-year plan.

01:10:46 Speaker 05: Of the five-year plan, so in under this category and on Attachment 3 to today's presentation, it shows 96 capital projects at a value of approximately $33.4 million in value.

01:11:02 Speaker 05: These are expansion-related enhancements dependent on a third party or dependent on the completion of other projects.

01:11:09 Speaker 05: New for this year is some of those development-related projects that we had identified in previous capital plans where we said we're anticipating Developer A giving us this much money for this project in the future.

01:11:21 Speaker 05: We've put all those still in the capital plan because it's on staff's radar, but they've all been listed as unfunded projects until we have signed development agreements.

01:11:30 Speaker 05: Likewise, if we kind of hear a rumor that a group's going to sponsor something for us, we put that as unfunded rather than showing that commitment.

01:11:38 Speaker 05: We put it in there so that we're not committing or holding anybody to something that comes back later and says, "Oh, you're going to give us $25,000 for this, but you're only giving us $10,000."

01:11:45 Speaker 05: Now we have to come up with that.

01:11:47 Speaker 05: Everything is unfunded until we have a signed piece of paper and an agreement moving forward.

01:11:51 Speaker 05: So that's changed the outlook of this, and that's kind of why the number has changed significantly over last year.

01:11:58 Speaker 05: Another one that, if you're looking at last year's plan to this year's, was the renovation or expansion of the Tom Thomson Art Gallery, based on the work that is needed to be completed.

01:12:09 Speaker 05: We saw some preliminary work, some additional studies and feasibility, that has pushed the potential construction of that building outside of the 2030 plan.

01:12:20 Speaker 05: So it's not completely being ignored by the City.

01:12:23 Speaker 05: There's just a series of projects that it was unrealistic to anticipate that that project would be completed within the five years of this plan.

01:12:29 Speaker 05: So staff have removed that section.

01:12:33 Speaker 05: Through your Worship, to Brady.

01:12:36 Speaker 12: So on the unfunded, you actually have the Rice House demolition down for 2026, and based on what you've just said, it makes me ask two questions:

01:12:50 Speaker 12: Why is it in here if it's moving past the 2030 anticipated date for Tom Thomson potential expansion?

01:13:00 Speaker 12: And second of all, I have a question generally to staff.

01:13:05 Speaker 12: We currently have the Rice House, which is I'm not sure if it's inhabited.

01:13:11 Speaker 12: I know we've some of us have taken a tour, and there's I don't know six or seven apartments that are potential or separated in there.

01:13:22 Speaker 12: At what point, recognizing the time frame and recognizing the housing challenge we have, might we entertain the concept of using the Rice House,

01:13:34 Speaker 12: or approaching the County to allow them to use the Rice House in the interim, rather than demolish it, for the desperately needed housing that we have in our area?

01:13:53 Speaker 12: Thank you, Your Worship.

01:13:54 Speaker 05: Through you to Councillor Merchant, that project is still in with a 2026 timeline.

01:14:01 Speaker 05: It's anticipated that there will be a report, I believe, through Service Delivery about a potential alignment of the Library entrance with the Tom Thomson Art Gallery entrance, and what some of the solutions are,

01:14:13 Speaker 05: kind of for the short term for that project, the medium term, and the long term, similar to what Councillor Middlebro asked about earlier with the Centennial Tower,

01:14:23 Speaker 05: what are the expenses that are consistently being incurred by the City, and that's a building that we continue to have to kind of maintain and keep up with going forward.

01:14:32 Speaker 05: And if there are plans to do a larger renovation or expansion sometime in the future, but it's not necessarily in the short term.

01:14:39 Speaker 05: There could be potential short-term uses resulting from the demolition of that building and temporary repurposing of the space.

01:14:45 Speaker 05: Either turning it back to grass or asphalt and using it for programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememing, as well.

01:14:50 Speaker 05: I'm not aware of any kind of motion or direction from Council to engage those other parties.

01:14:55 Speaker 05: So I think I can let the City Manager speak to that prior to Council discussing this a little bit further.

01:15:03 Speaker 05: Tim, through Mayor to Council.

01:15:03 Speaker 21: Through Mayor to Councillor Merton, I can say that staff in the past had been in communication with the County, who in the County has said they would pass on using that facility.

01:15:15 Speaker 21: Go ahead, through your Worship.

01:15:19 Speaker 21: Thank you for that information.

01:15:22 Speaker 12: There are other groups who are actively involved in housing, especially affordable or take by names list from the County.

01:15:33 Speaker 12: For me, the perspective of tearing down a building that has potential to house people, knowing that a project potentially that could expand the Tom Thomson won't occur until after 2030 at the earliest,

01:15:50 Speaker 12: and recognizing that the renovation project for the Gallery at the entranceway does not interface in that area.

01:15:59 Speaker 12: Yeah, you know, I understand there's competing needs for buildings and facilities,

01:16:07 Speaker 12: but I'm wondering at this point if some consideration could be made on a building that already exists that has apartments that we could address in the short-term housing.

01:16:20 Speaker 12: There are other groups, and I, this may not be the plan, but I have to ask the question because there are people out there who need housing.

01:16:31 Speaker 09: My question would be, how much do those other groups want to pay to get these places livable for four years before you tear it down?

01:16:40 Speaker 09: Through you, through you, Mayor.

01:16:43 Speaker 22: Just through that discussion that Councillor Merton was speaking about,

01:16:47 Speaker 22: I'd just ask that we have a formal council motion if staff were to embark on a full study of what it would take to have that property made operational,

01:16:57 Speaker 22: whether the city wants to get into the landlord-tenant business, if we're providing housing, which isn't currently in our portfolio of things to offer, and how that would work,

01:17:10 Speaker 22: and then also we'd have to look at the fairness.

01:17:13 Speaker 22: I'm certain there's probably a lot of groups that would raise a hand to say, "Well, we'll take it," and then what will the metrics be that who's going to use it and who isn't?

01:17:20 Speaker 22: So there are a number of considerations that would need to be thought through, and so I'd respectfully ask for a motion if council wants to move in that direction.

01:17:29 Speaker 23: Go ahead, through you, your Worship.

01:17:32 Speaker 12: I would move that city staff investigate further the option of interfacing with other community groups around potential future use of the Rice House as we move forward our planning for the art gallery and report

01:17:50 Speaker 12: back to council on potential opportunities.

01:17:51 Speaker 12: Okay, motions on the floor.

01:17:55 Speaker 12: John.

01:17:57 Speaker 12: Through the Mayor, I think that discussion is worth having.

01:17:59 Speaker 11: I know that some supportive organisations will also act as the kind of go-between between a landlord and the person being supported, which would significantly reduce any burden.

01:18:10 Speaker 11: It were not this would not be the only city facility where we have someone paying a lease that would help to cover the cost of maintaining that asset,

01:18:20 Speaker 11: and I think this might be an opportunity to explore a potential to solve both the cost, like the ongoing carrying cost, or address a portion of that for the building,

01:18:31 Speaker 11: and also help to provide some social good while actively partnering with other organisations.

01:18:36 Speaker 11: I support at least asking that question.

01:18:40 Speaker 11: Okay.

01:18:40 Speaker 11: Anyone else want to speak to it?

01:18:41 Speaker 11: Go ahead.

01:18:44 Speaker 11: Thank you.

01:18:44 Speaker 04: If we're going to be going that route, which is fine, I feel like the building should be either used for something, or we have to make a decision on this.

01:18:55 Speaker 04: Two thousand and thirty, and beyond, for an expansion is like we're down the line.

01:19:02 Speaker 04: But I think maybe the report should include all options.

01:19:07 Speaker 04: Like, if we demoed it now, would it save on operating costs over the next five, ten years?

01:19:15 Speaker 04: And if we put in a parking lot that could be used for tourism and the art gallery.

01:19:22 Speaker 04: How I just think all options should be on the table if there are other options already being thought of.

01:19:30 Speaker 24: Mark, it might be an unanswerable question, but why did the county say no?

01:19:44 Speaker 14: I can contribute to that question at the last Community Services meeting; we did have annual year-in-review,

01:19:53 Speaker 14: but some of the success stories and a lot of the successes are driven out of having the ancillary supports at the locations where housing is most required,

01:20:03 Speaker 14: and there's a certain economy of scale that needs to be achieved.

01:20:06 Speaker 14: So the size of that building would not allow for those proper supports to be in place to aid individuals in the best potential outcomes.

01:20:16 Speaker 14: Thank you, Worship.

01:20:22 Speaker 14: I'm not going to support the motion.

01:20:24 Speaker 25: We just heard 15 minutes ago of the conversation of saying that there was not enough funding for our current capital projects, made by yourself,

01:20:35 Speaker 25: that we didn't have enough funding to do what we're currently doing.

01:20:38 Speaker 25: We should be looking at going back and doing the dirty work of saying what should the city be doing, and that's not in our current portfolio.

01:20:46 Speaker 25: There's going to be staffing, operational expenses that come along with that to manage that facility.

01:20:50 Speaker 25: If you're going to be in the tenant business, there's going to be capital enhancements that need to happen to that facility.

01:20:55 Speaker 25: If we do know the long-term implication is that it's going to be torn down at some point, I don't see that as the best solution.

01:21:03 Speaker 25: I would say if we're going to do something like that, I'd be trying to utilise another facility that we know we're going to keep on our portfolio for a long period of time.

01:21:11 Speaker 25: Not do a new roof.

01:21:12 Speaker 25: Not do new windows.

01:21:13 Speaker 25: Not do all these other things to make it inhabitable for three and a half years, and then count the time decides that they're going to do something different with that facility.

01:21:20 Speaker 25: I think that's we know that we're underfunding other capital projects.

01:21:25 Speaker 25: I just don't see that's where we should be sending that money.

01:21:32 Speaker 25: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

01:21:34 Speaker 06: Just a quick question to the City Manager: It does not have seven apartments.

01:21:37 Speaker 06: I think it has three or four.

01:21:43 Speaker 06: Three, Mayor.

01:21:44 Speaker 06: As we all looked at each other, it's five.

01:21:46 Speaker 06: Number in between.

01:21:47 Speaker 06: Okay.

01:21:54 Speaker 09: And just to cover that off, our Fire Chief Phil Eagleson's in the back and shouted out because he looks after doctor recruitment.

01:22:02 Speaker 09: That when they looked at it, it's four units.

01:22:06 Speaker 06: Then another question on that, like the reason why that building was deemed fit for demolition was because it was an asset that we needed too much.

01:22:16 Speaker 06: Like, what was the reason?

01:22:17 Speaker 06: Why did we declare it fit for demolition?

01:22:23 Speaker 06: To consider, Your Worship.

01:22:27 Speaker 05: Yes, I know that this has been on the unfunded list since prior to me starting here, but I think it's because the building has been deemed not required for the use of the city.

01:22:40 Speaker 05: There's no City departments operating out of it.

01:22:42 Speaker 05: It didn't get incorporated into the needs study for the Tom Thomson Art Gallery expansion because it's a separate building and older.

01:22:49 Speaker 05: But I do know that there is significant capital expenditure required for that building going forward.

01:22:55 Speaker 05: So I think it was a decision of council at the time or staff of that time to either spend the hundreds of thousands of dollars to extend the life of that asset,

01:23:03 Speaker 05: or to consider the demolition of it as a holding until the expansion project occurs, Mary.

01:23:13 Speaker 05: Thank you.

01:23:13 Speaker 08: What was the cost of the demolition, approximately?

01:23:19 Speaker 05: To Councillor Cupp Keith, through your Worship, twenty-five thousand.

01:23:25 Speaker 08: And as Councillor Mitterroth said, making it a parking lot, how much more is that adding?

01:23:35 Speaker 08: To Councillor Cupp Keith, through your Worship.

01:23:37 Speaker 05: I believe the twenty-five thousand would just be the reinstatement back to grass.

01:23:42 Speaker 05: I think any potential use of that site will come forward in the report later on this year, if it's a consideration or an opportunity.

01:23:51 Speaker 05: The one unfunded project I know that we talk about as staff is that the library continually requests for us to provide fifty thousand dollars for some outdoor programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememing space in kind of that pit area

01:24:04 Speaker 05: outside the library.

01:24:04 Speaker 05: That'll inside the library, that'll come with significant building costs as well, and it's not necessarily a fully accessible site without going through the building.

01:24:11 Speaker 05: It's a project that we can't support as a city because it's expansion activity, and we're struggling to maintain that building as a whole.

01:24:20 Speaker 05: But is that something that Council would be more open to us spending maybe some money towards a new or a programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememing space that can be utilised by both the Library and the Tom Thomson Art

01:24:29 Speaker 05: Gallery?

01:24:30 Speaker 05: But I think that's further down the road after the report towards the end of this year.

01:24:33 Speaker 08: I only ask because I know St. Andrew's Church is always looking for parking, and the businesses along there as well need parking, and that's just why I'm thinking a parking lot.

01:24:51 Speaker 08: Have you spoken yet?

01:24:53 Speaker 09: No. Okay, then I'll go to see John for the second time.

01:24:57 Speaker 09: I think the motion is worth supporting.

01:24:58 Speaker 19: It's just a motion asking for various options and opportunities that we perhaps haven't just placed in front of us at this point yet.

01:25:06 Speaker 19: So there's no harm in getting more information back.

01:25:09 Speaker 19: A more...

01:25:09 Speaker 19: I don't know what groups could potentially be out there that could contribute to maximize and use the building.

01:25:15 Speaker 19: And I understand the comments that it's beyond the current requirements of the City,

01:25:23 Speaker 19: but perhaps it does meet a need for a community group or someone out there to maximize the use at a minimal or negligible cost to the taxpayers.

01:25:32 Speaker 19: So, John, thank you through the Mayor.

01:25:36 Speaker 19: Just seeking clarification.

01:25:38 Speaker 11: Councillor Dodd mentioned the specifics around windows and a new roof and things like that.

01:25:44 Speaker 11: I wasn't here when the relationship started with the most recent organisation that was hosting refugee families in that space.

01:25:53 Speaker 11: I'd be interested to hear from staff whether that organisation contributed to the capital costs, knowing that there continue to be community groups bringing refugee families from around the world to Owen Sound,

01:26:06 Speaker 11: as we currently live in a time where there's no shortage of refugees.

01:26:12 Speaker 05: To Councillor Farmer through your Worship, that group was the Ukrainian Village of Owen Sound.

01:26:17 Speaker 05: The City had an agreement in place with them that they terminated at the end because their programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe moved on to other options,

01:26:26 Speaker 05: but they were responsible for paying the utilities for that site and for the maintenance.

01:26:31 Speaker 05: So they did some minor maintenance-type activities.

01:26:34 Speaker 05: They replaced some carpeting and some painting and some appliances inside there.

01:26:39 Speaker 05: But they were not responsible for the capital items for that building.

01:26:42 Speaker 05: So there was no investment in the roof or the windows or the doors or anything like that.

01:26:48 Speaker 05: So pretty...

01:26:49 Speaker 09: The last number of years since the Ukrainian Village moved out, how many other local organisations, knowing that that place is sitting empty, have come to us and asked to take it over?

01:27:00 Speaker 09: Or sorry, thank you, Your Worship.

01:27:03 Speaker 05: I am not aware of any other groups.

01:27:05 Speaker 05: I know the Fire Chief did look at that as an option for the doctor recruitment programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe, and that's the only other expression of interest that I'm aware of.

01:27:13 Speaker 05: And I'm seeing the City Manager nodding with a similar response.

01:27:17 Speaker 09: So, so I'm not in support of the motion, but I'm all ears for any group that wants to come forward and approach us while it's sitting there,

01:27:25 Speaker 09: and would consider it openly if somebody came ahead, but I'm not supporting getting a study to find out for us to go out and try and find somebody.

01:27:33 Speaker 09: It's I'm all ears for anybody that steps forward.

01:27:37 Speaker 09: Anyway, anything else?

01:27:38 Speaker 09: Can I call the question?

01:27:39 Speaker 09: Go ahead.

01:27:40 Speaker 25: And just for clarification, can you just confirm that the demolition is still unfunded, correct?

01:27:47 Speaker 25: So no one has funded the demolition of this project, so we're still hypothetical on so many different things.

01:27:51 Speaker 25: Great, thank you.

01:27:53 Speaker 25: Good point.

01:27:54 Speaker 25: Thank you.

01:27:54 Speaker 25: Okay, can I call the question?

01:27:55 Speaker 25: All in favour?

01:27:57 Speaker 25: One, two, three.

01:27:58 Speaker 25: Opposed?

01:27:59 Speaker 25: One, two, three, four, five.

01:28:00 Speaker 25: So that's defeated.

01:28:03 Speaker 25: Go ahead.

01:28:07 Speaker 25: Perfect.

01:28:07 Speaker 25: Thank you, Your Worship.

01:28:08 Speaker 05: So I think the next step would just be if there was any other projects, we would probably flag for projects for discussion at the end of this off of that unfunded list.

01:28:17 Speaker 05: We'll take that now, and then we'll put it into the parking lot for the end of today's presentation.

01:28:20 Speaker 05: Through the Mayor.

01:28:24 Speaker 11: Speaking of parking lots, I am interested in learning more about why we continue to include paving of the North Bayshore parking lot at two and a half million dollars.

01:28:36 Speaker 11: Parking lots being expensive to maintain and then replace, I'm curious why that's there and if that's worth removing.

01:28:45 Speaker 11: I don't know if that's a question for now or for the end.

01:28:52 Speaker 05: To Councillor Farmer through your Worship, I think we'll kind of put that into the projects for discussion at the end.

01:28:56 Speaker 05: And then once you have the full staff, it also allows some of the staff in attendance to kind of prepare some information for that.

01:29:05 Speaker 05: Not knowing that it was coming up before, now we'll give the Director a few minutes to collect some information on that.

01:29:12 Speaker 05: John, you had a list of questions.

01:29:16 Speaker 05: Well, that was it.

01:29:17 Speaker 05: Okay.

01:29:17 Speaker 05: Sorry, I thought there were others.

01:29:17 Speaker 05: There are others.

01:29:18 Speaker 05: Any, any, any, any.

01:29:21 Speaker 05: Go ahead.

01:29:23 Speaker 05: I have a few.

01:29:24 Speaker 19: The spoil area management of the cemetrey, the master plan update at the cemetrey.

01:29:28 Speaker 19: I feel...

01:29:29 Speaker 19: I thought we just did a master plan for the cemetrey, so those leap out at me.

01:29:35 Speaker 19: I think I read forty thousand dollars for bleachers for St. Julian's Field.

01:29:42 Speaker 19: I don't know if that's referring to the ball diamond, but I feel like there's a ball diamond if we exclude the one slow-pitch tournament that occurs in September,

01:29:50 Speaker 19: has maybe not been used since like 2013.

01:29:52 Speaker 19: My son played at it.

01:29:55 Speaker 19: Tom Duncan McClellan Scoreboard Park.

01:29:58 Speaker 19: I'm not certain we've hosted high-calibre tournaments since we put the bleachers in several years back.

01:30:04 Speaker 19: There are some items here that right now I don't want to go too deep into them because they're unfunded.

01:30:10 Speaker 19: They won't happen unless Council, like Councillor Daw just mentioned, unless Council gives them approval.

01:30:17 Speaker 19: Then I don't think I need to expend a lot of Council's time looking at them when they're several years down the road.

01:30:26 Speaker 19: But certainly, 2.2 million dollars, I thought I saw for Harrison Park and sidewalks.

01:30:32 Speaker 19: There is... there's some exorbitant.

01:30:34 Speaker 19: It's more... there's a lot of items in there that are wish list and not needs-based.

01:30:43 Speaker 19: So I guess I have a few questions with some of them.

01:30:46 Speaker 19: I'd also like to place one at the proper time before Council for consideration, just to be put onto the unfunded list as well.

01:30:53 Speaker 19: So, thank you, Worship.

01:30:59 Speaker 19: Yeah.

01:30:59 Speaker 05: So, and I think that's a good kind of segue into kind of the... its unfunded projects.

01:31:04 Speaker 05: In some of these cases where we do have a kind of a bleacher set there and it's deteriorating,

01:31:09 Speaker 05: we have the obligation of staff to kind of plan for the replacement of those based on the levels of service at that time.

01:31:16 Speaker 05: So I think that's sometimes if it's in there unfunded, it also spur[s] that conversation about levels of service for how do we... what do we want a Class A, Class B,

01:31:24 Speaker 05: Class C ball diamond to look at in the future?

01:31:27 Speaker 05: I'm not necessarily sure today is the day to fully go through that, but as we go through the asset management plans and for those specific asset classes,

01:31:33 Speaker 05: this is where those conversations are going to go up.

01:31:35 Speaker 05: If we have an existing scoreboard somewhere and it needs to be replaced, we just kind of need to go through that levels of service and go okay... through that levels first, be like okay,

01:31:42 Speaker 05: it's a Class A ball diamond, which means this.

01:31:44 Speaker 05: Or if it goes down to another class, then that asset disappears and it disappears off our registry going into the future.

01:31:53 Speaker 05: To the Mayor, scatterbrained.

01:31:56 Speaker 05: I don't know if this is the right time.

01:31:58 Speaker 11: I would be interested in asking for more information to add at the back end.

01:32:04 Speaker 11: The Downtown River Precinct works along the 900 block of First West.

01:32:10 Speaker 11: Now that we've done all the work with the boardwalk and the DRP Phase Two, specifically looking at the fortress and either like removing or sorry the stone thing, popularly known as the Fortress,

01:32:22 Speaker 11: which is at an awkward height and awkwardly not see-through, which creates funny conditions for folks using that.

01:32:30 Speaker 11: We did remove last year, the year before Phases Three and Four from the Downtown River Precinct.

01:32:35 Speaker 11: I think the original scope of work for that block was greater than simply updating that particular thing, but now that we've invested so much on the other side,

01:32:46 Speaker 11: I think that it's worth the conversation of what would it look like to reduce the scope of the proposed project to at least remove or replace with a railing something.

01:32:56 Speaker 11: I don't know if adding that to the funding list now is good, or we'll do that to the end.

01:33:01 Speaker 05: To Councillor Farmer through your Worship, I wrote that down to kind of talk about at the end, and once again rather than deal with kind of these projects in one-off conversations,

01:33:10 Speaker 05: I think I've got a list of about eight here that we can kind of work through and talk about.

01:33:14 Speaker 05: Because maybe Project A has an impact on Project B.

01:33:17 Speaker 05: As when we get to that point, did you get all yours?

01:33:20 Speaker 19: I have a little bit of discussion on the seeding replacements at the Bayshore.

01:33:27 Speaker 19: It's about seven hundred seventy thousand dollars.

01:33:29 Speaker 19: For instance, what options might be out there just to do you know two hundred and fifty over of Two hundred and fifty over a variety of years, because it says there's no parts available.

01:33:39 Speaker 19: But if you spend two hundred and fifty thousand dollars and you replace the seating in a third of the building,

01:33:44 Speaker 19: then all of a sudden you've got a whole bunch of parts that you didn't have prior to that move.

01:33:49 Speaker 19: So I'm just wondering if there's maybe some opportunities there that could be gleaned.

01:33:57 Speaker 19: Any others?

01:33:58 Speaker 19: No, we're good.

01:33:59 Speaker 19: Any others?

01:34:00 Speaker 19: Go ahead.

01:34:02 Speaker 19: I just want to ask.

01:34:05 Speaker 04: So we're all kind of waiting for that conversation of the asset management plan.

01:34:11 Speaker 04: And when do we have the chance to start chopping away things that we shouldn't be spending money on?

01:34:17 Speaker 04: And I know it's been a ton of work, and you're compiling all of the asset management plans into the one.

01:34:22 Speaker 04: But when do we get to have that conversation?

01:34:25 Speaker 04: When is the asset management plan going to be in such a state that we get to have that conversation?

01:34:34 Speaker 05: To Councillor Mitterbeau, through your Worship, that conversation will start this fall, kind of heading into the two thousand and twenty-six operating budget.

01:34:43 Speaker 05: We'll have the draft asset management plan in July, and I think at that point we'll be open to council saying like, here's an area we want you to focus on.

01:34:54 Speaker 05: Roll up your sleeves and let's dive into that.

01:34:56 Speaker 05: We can focus on levels of service and asset management strategies, but that is going to take time.

01:35:00 Speaker 05: However, if council has a service area or a group or some set of assets that they want us to look into, that'll help us prioritize where we should be focusing that attention,

01:35:11 Speaker 05: and we'll make sure that that component's brought up earlier into the kind of implementation of the plan.

01:35:20 Speaker 05: I'm not seeing any hands going up.

01:35:29 Speaker 05: All right.

01:35:30 Speaker 05: Onto the next part of the project or the presentation.

01:35:34 Speaker 05: We are looking at just a quick update on the software implementation and project prioritization review.

01:35:40 Speaker 05: Because I know it came up.

01:35:41 Speaker 05: I think it was, I can't remember if it's Operations or Community Services group.

01:35:45 Speaker 05: Just kind of related to some of the areas we've seen that tonight, where the current setup that we have, we rely on a very comprehensive Excel database that works back and forth,

01:35:55 Speaker 05: but isn't fully connected.

01:35:56 Speaker 05: Our Adobe PDF abilities of taking these sheets.

01:36:00 Speaker 05: We've talked to council in the past before, where we have to actually print to PDF them because there's some embedded stuff in there that, if the public got a hold,

01:36:07 Speaker 05: they could change the value of a project quite easily.

01:36:10 Speaker 05: So we are progressing towards the implementation of project management software,

01:36:13 Speaker 05: and we trialed it this year for the first time on the two thousand and thirty capital detail sheets for engineering facilities and the Strategic Initiatives team.

01:36:22 Speaker 05: So you'll see a slightly different template in the capital detail sheets as Councillor Farmer saw in his review; there's still a few little bugs,

01:36:29 Speaker 05: but it served as a great learning opportunity for us as staff to implement it.

01:36:35 Speaker 05: Based on the nice part about that software as well is that it has mechanisms built in so that there can be another set of eyes or approvals set up.

01:36:43 Speaker 05: So as staff can put it in there, their manager can approve it.

01:36:47 Speaker 05: The City Manager could approve it.

01:36:48 Speaker 05: The Treasurer could approve it.

01:36:49 Speaker 05: We have that ability to build those metrics in so that everybody is comfortable looking at the details.

01:36:54 Speaker 05: Looking at the detail sheets and putting another tool into make sure that there's been no data consistency issues with them.

01:37:02 Speaker 05: But with the software also comes a lot of work and then the implementation part.

01:37:06 Speaker 05: So if we're looking at significantly changing something that council doesn't necessarily like about this process or the prioritization,

01:37:13 Speaker 05: I think it's the appropriate time right now to catch some of that stuff before we start to implement the software.

01:37:19 Speaker 05: Because if we go have to go back and ask the software developer to change something, then that's going to come at a cost.

01:37:24 Speaker 05: So, we just wanted to point out what that software can do.

01:37:28 Speaker 05: A nice part about it, and Michelle Palmer is leading the implementation of that project.

01:37:33 Speaker 05: She's shown me some of the outputs that we can get from the software, which is going to save us dozens, if not hundreds, of hours going through this process by having it.

01:37:42 Speaker 05: It takes away that manual input of me looking at a couple of detail sheets, trying to type a number in here, type a number in there, change a prioritization.

01:37:51 Speaker 05: We go through the community or through the committees.

01:37:54 Speaker 05: We change a project now.

01:37:55 Speaker 05: I'm thinking, okay, I had to do this and this and this to work back from.

01:37:58 Speaker 05: That'll all now be embedded in the software.

01:38:00 Speaker 05: One change, update, it changes it everywhere.

01:38:03 Speaker 05: It'll also give us that reporting feature that we can break things out a little bit nicer.

01:38:06 Speaker 05: Like right now, it does look very clunky when we put the projects in.

01:38:10 Speaker 05: We feel the easiest way is just to put them in by project number.

01:38:12 Speaker 05: But to embed a lot of detail or cover pages in there, it's a lot of work for staff.

01:38:17 Speaker 05: We can do customized reports coming out of this as well.

01:38:19 Speaker 05: So it's just an update that you will see improvement on this process.

01:38:25 Speaker 05: Maybe not necessarily for the December update, but when I'm here again next year, it's going to look different for everybody.

01:38:31 Speaker 05: So what we wanted just to double check goes through the Mayor, if I may.

01:38:38 Speaker 05: Just a question on this for the update.

01:38:40 Speaker 11: We've heard that the current process by printing to PDF without adding alternate text means that what we receive is not accessible.

01:38:49 Speaker 11: Will the new format make it possible for us to meet our accessibility obligations?

01:38:57 Speaker 05: To Councillor Farmer, through your Worship, yes, we believe so because you don't have to kind of trick the system into thinking it's one big picture.

01:39:10 Speaker 08: Through you, Mr. Mayor, when I hear you say it's going to save us hundreds of hours, the first thing that triggers in my mind is that's a staff person.

01:39:22 Speaker 08: So eventually, is it going to reduce the staff levels?

01:39:27 Speaker 05: To Councillor Koepke, through your Worship, I don't think it would necessarily save an employee.

01:39:32 Speaker 05: I think a lot of the stuff is that when we're doing this, it's taking us away from other functions such as delivering on our capital projects.

01:39:41 Speaker 05: So prepping for the committee.

01:39:43 Speaker 05: So that was a new feature that we added last year and this year.

01:39:46 Speaker 05: It took close to one hundred hours, probably, to prep for those.

01:39:51 Speaker 05: When I was doing that work, I was no longer focusing on the capital projects responsible for my department.

01:39:55 Speaker 05: And as you see, when you go through those capital detail lists, you're seeing a lot of these projects.

01:39:59 Speaker 05: We're at June, we're not there yet.

01:40:01 Speaker 05: So it's not that we're looking for savings.

01:40:04 Speaker 05: We're just going to be more efficient in delivering on other aspects or making sure that we're doing a comprehensive and good job of what we're supposed to be doing.

01:40:17 Speaker 05: Thank you, through you, Mayor.

01:40:18 Speaker 04: A hundred hours to prep to bring this to committee.

01:40:24 Speaker 04: Why a hundred hours?

01:40:26 Speaker 04: And how?

01:40:27 Speaker 04: Like, what was different than just preparing this capital presentation for committee versus this?

01:40:34 Speaker 04: And do you feel like it was worth it for those hundred hours?

01:40:37 Speaker 04: Because I know at Corporate Services we had one public member there that day, and no feedback whatsoever.

01:40:43 Speaker 04: So, was it worth it?

01:40:46 Speaker 05: To Council Member Both, your Worship, it's preparing this presentation three additional times over, kind of customizing, moving things around, creating another spreadsheet, PDFing another set of documents.

01:40:57 Speaker 05: So, it's a triplification of all of that work.

01:41:04 Speaker 05: Anytime we can receive committee feedback, it's always valuable.

01:41:07 Speaker 05: And we, as staff, we never know how many people are going to show up to these presentations.

01:41:12 Speaker 05: I know this presentation last year.

01:41:14 Speaker 05: I think there was three members of the community here.

01:41:17 Speaker 05: Today there's nobody.

01:41:18 Speaker 05: So I think, but the direction.

01:41:20 Speaker 05: I think I can't remember if it was a council direction or where that necessarily came from.

01:41:24 Speaker 05: That we need to start bringing these things through the committees.

01:41:27 Speaker 05: It's just for that feedback, but maybe from the public members of the committee and not necessarily council that we get that from.

01:41:34 Speaker 05: And I do know in maybe not necessarily this year, but the prior year there was a lot of our community members of those committees did provide a lot of feedback, doing it.

01:41:44 Speaker 05: So, we don't mind the work, and we do value the feedback of it.

01:41:49 Speaker 05: It's just those little changes in processes that by automating this process, it's going to help us on our end prepare for that level of feedback.

01:42:00 Speaker 08: I think we also have to remember too that these meetings are live streamed or video recorded and lots and lots of people watch,

01:42:11 Speaker 08: so we can't discount the number of people actually that are watching and seeing what's going on.

01:42:23 Speaker 05: Yeah, so this information was shared with the committee members when we went through it,

01:42:28 Speaker 05: so I won't necessarily go through the scoring unless there is something that a particular council member didn't necessarily talk about back in May that they would like further conversation about.

01:42:39 Speaker 05: I know earlier in today's meeting, Councillor Merton talked about the heritage value of that,

01:42:46 Speaker 05: and what I think we would need to be careful of is rather than adding to this and changing percentages around that.

01:42:52 Speaker 05: If there was a specific area that we wanted to incorporate into one of these ten or eleven different categories,

01:42:58 Speaker 05: it would be more appropriate and would also be something that we would be able to advise Council of what its impact could be on those assets that are non-heritage.

01:43:06 Speaker 05: So if you put a heritage value and put it at 25%, next year I'm coming with you, and every heritage project is going to be on the top five public-facing projects,

01:43:14 Speaker 05: at the cost of something else.

01:43:15 Speaker 05: So I think we would just be looking for feedback of where we could incorporate that,

01:43:19 Speaker 05: and it's probably something into the aesthetics or an existing city document or something that we would incorporate that kind of conversation.

01:43:37 Speaker 12: Your Worship, I think that as we move forward and start to have to make decisions potentially about where we're going with the facilities, even with the unfunded,

01:43:49 Speaker 12: if we do the capital data sheet or detail sheet for those unfunded as well, if we even incorporate it within one of the categories, so it would be historical significance or the heritage,

01:44:02 Speaker 12: because some things we have less freedom to choose based on their historical or heritage designation.

01:44:10 Speaker 12: So I would leave it up to staff.

01:44:12 Speaker 12: I would simply ask that we incorporate it as within one of those categories, just so it's readable and we're clear that it's been looked at.

01:44:23 Speaker 12: Thank you, Councillor Merton.

01:44:27 Speaker 05: Through your Worship, I think we can build that in when we summarise the building condition assessments.

01:44:31 Speaker 05: We can flag those buildings that do have a designation put on them and the impact.

01:44:35 Speaker 05: I know looking at the building condition assessments from last year, the consultants placed a premium on top of that.

01:44:42 Speaker 05: So if the window was a hundred dollars, if they looked and saw that it was a heritage building, they put that window valued at two hundred and fifty dollars.

01:44:51 Speaker 05: So it's those impacts we'll be able to report on a little bit more comprehensively at the end of this project, but also flag which ones.

01:44:58 Speaker 05: And some of these buildings aren't necessarily under the control of the city either.

01:45:01 Speaker 05: We have a couple third-party operating agreements or leases with these other parties that also impact this.

01:45:07 Speaker 05: So at that point, we can also have the conversation about the future of those as well.

01:45:14 Speaker 11: Through the Mayor is the how are we standardizing the assessment of these areas?

01:45:21 Speaker 11: I'm a broken record, and I'm just really curious if the new software lets us put in a standard metric so that no matter what department you're in,

01:45:29 Speaker 11: if under people you put in four thousand or you put in forty, that it's rating those the same before weighting them, in that way, or requiring a certain number be equated to a certain perspective,

01:45:42 Speaker 11: or that a number be put in.

01:45:44 Speaker 11: I'm also just wondering how, like, how staff are being trained, so that our assessments of socioeconomic, environmental, aesthetic value, like, how are we standardizing these things,

01:45:55 Speaker 11: and is that something that the new tech lets us do, or is that staff training and culture piece?

01:46:02 Speaker 11: Thank you, Councillor Farmer.

01:46:03 Speaker 11: Through your Worship, I think it's both.

01:46:05 Speaker 11: It'll be when we roll out the software.

01:46:07 Speaker 05: It'll be a great time to remind staff of the matrix and how to score it, and what the expectation would be for entering the data into that.

01:46:14 Speaker 05: But going back to the point about reallocating hours instead of kind of going through and PDFing these sheets, the software will have that ability to have the manager approve off on the sheet, the director,

01:46:24 Speaker 05: and then it goes to the budget office, and then that would be my team.

01:46:27 Speaker 05: Would then say, okay, the project's been completed, and we would be triggered to review all these sheets.

01:46:32 Speaker 05: We can spend more time reviewing those sheets rather than doing some of these kind of administrative functions in the background.

01:46:48 Speaker 05: So the next stage is the projects for discussion.

01:46:52 Speaker 05: I think we have about nine on the list, so I'm not sure if do you want to take a break now?

01:46:57 Speaker 05: How's your timetable?

01:46:58 Speaker 05: Are we on schedule?

01:47:00 Speaker 05: Are we behind schedule?

01:47:01 Speaker 05: Are we ahead of schedule?

01:47:02 Speaker 05: It's 2:15.

01:47:04 Speaker 09: I know we're going to quit at 4:30, so so we're in good shape.

01:47:11 Speaker 09: So if we took a 10-minute break right now before we start this, it'd be really perfect.

01:47:15 Speaker 09: Good.

01:59:34 Speaker 09: Okay, we'll call it back to order.

01:59:36 Speaker 09: It's two twenty-seven.

01:59:36 Speaker 09: I think you were thank you, Your Worship.

01:59:43 Speaker 05: So yes, we're at the projects for discussion.

01:59:46 Speaker 05: I know the slide that comes after this kind of talks about where we're going after today's presentation, but this is the key part of.

01:59:53 Speaker 05: I kind of told you the story about the funded projects, the unfunded funding sources.

01:59:58 Speaker 05: We've gone through kind of how projects are prioritized.

02:00:00 Speaker 05: So this is the opportunity for Council to ask questions of myself or the directors that are here about specific projects, and then make the necessary motion to either add, delete, or change a project.

02:00:13 Speaker 05: We'll take that feedback and build it into the staff report that will come on July 21st of this year.

02:00:18 Speaker 05: That will formalize the list, and then those attachments that were appended to the presentation today will be finalized at that time,

02:00:25 Speaker 05: and that'll be what we use moving forward for the 2026 to 2030 plan until the December update.

02:00:32 Speaker 05: Through today's presentation, there was a series of projects asked.

02:00:35 Speaker 05: I think I did a pretty good job of documenting who asked them, but I might have got that wrong.

02:00:40 Speaker 05: So please feel free to correct me.

02:00:42 Speaker 05: But the first project was Councillor Farmer looking for a bit more information on the water bottle filling station project 25 M 5.

02:00:52 Speaker 11: So through the Mayor in 2023, we said, and I think the motion at the time said specifically for 2023.

02:00:58 Speaker 11: I am unaware of whether that funding was successfully allocated to either a refurbishment or a new addition of a public water fountain in an outdoor space.

02:01:09 Speaker 11: I'm hoping for some more information about whether that happened.

02:01:12 Speaker 11: Whether the intention, from staff's perspective, is still to try to allocate that money to increasing public outdoor access to water during appropriate seasons.

02:01:23 Speaker 11: The middle of a heatwave seems like a good time to ask that question.

02:01:27 Speaker 11: Thank you, Councillor Farmer.

02:01:29 Speaker 05: And I guess that's a good idea to promote the current locations.

02:01:33 Speaker 05: I've seen some stuff on Facebook today, coming out of or of the filling stations here at City Hall, and at Kelsall Beach, and at the I think where was it?

02:01:44 Speaker 05: The library, maybe today, and the Waterfront Heritage Centre.

02:01:47 Speaker 05: So we've seen some online promotion of that.

02:01:50 Speaker 05: The money that was allocated in 2023 and for this year is currently sitting in as a project that hasn't necessarily commenced.

02:01:59 Speaker 05: What we've done, taking the feedback from the 2023 conversation, was try and find a suitable location out.

02:02:04 Speaker 05: Find a suitable location outside, in the downtown core, because once four thirty comes around or nine o'clock comes around, a lot of these city facilities that have the water bottle filling stations are closed.

02:02:16 Speaker 05: Behind us, and I can't remember the park name other than the bike park.

02:02:20 Speaker 05: There is an outdoor water fountain at that location.

02:02:24 Speaker 05: That's an existing one.

02:02:25 Speaker 05: We've been monitoring the usage to our best ability to look at upgrading that water station to a water bottle filling one as well.

02:02:33 Speaker 05: Currently, it's just the spigot that opens up, and it's more of a fountain.

02:02:36 Speaker 05: We're looking at replacing that while still trying to maintain kind of the heritage of that park.

02:02:42 Speaker 05: So that will likely take the money from the 2023 and 2025 programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe to put a standpipe type system in there that is meets the satisfaction of our water distribution team,

02:02:54 Speaker 05: but also something that it's an asset that the park staff are going to have to kind of incorporate in their daily rounds as well.

02:03:00 Speaker 05: So making sure that it's a very low maintenance and safe feature as well.

02:03:03 Speaker 05: So that is probably where we'll put the downtown feature.

02:03:06 Speaker 05: We had looked at the Market Building, but to where we wanted to put the water, it would interfere with a lot of events.

02:03:11 Speaker 05: So if we had a private rental, we would have somebody coming through to access that spot.

02:03:15 Speaker 05: So we feel like this is the best location.

02:03:17 Speaker 05: And as I said, it'll take up that.

02:03:19 Speaker 05: There is one existing water fountain that has not been installed, and we are working with the Owen Sound Police to put it in one of their public spaces, either right in their lobby,

02:03:29 Speaker 05: or in the Barclay Room, if that space could be opened up as a cooling or warming centre, that would likely meet the requirements of available water for the public.

02:03:40 Speaker 11: Following up through the Mayor, I know that there are some examples in places like the Southampton Beach of joint units that are outside all year round.

02:03:48 Speaker 11: Is it helpful for us to pass along those examples, or are you already looking at specific models or options?

02:03:56 Speaker 11: And yeah.

02:03:59 Speaker 05: To Councillor Farmer, through your Worship, we're looking at the product line that we've installed in our interior ones.

02:04:05 Speaker 05: But if there is an option that's affordable and can meet the same level of service, we're happy to take any feedback.

02:04:18 Speaker 05: The next project was once again Councillor Farmer asking about the North Bayshore paving.

02:04:25 Speaker 05: The project is currently in the unfunded list at a value of funded list had a value of two and a half million dollars.

02:04:30 Speaker 05: Interestingly, we were cleaning up some files from our engineering department a couple weeks ago,

02:04:35 Speaker 05: and I think we found at the time Council didn't have the funding to proceed with that project back in I want to say the '90s,

02:04:42 Speaker 05: and I think the value back then was about 175 thousand dollars.

02:04:45 Speaker 05: So looking at that today, it would be something that would probably jump on.

02:04:50 Speaker 05: That project is in there, but basically because the maintenance and liability associated with that parking lot and the condition, the granular materials do break down potholes,

02:05:01 Speaker 05: so it should be consistent with the remainder of the parking areas at our other facilities.

02:05:06 Speaker 05: But it's just the two and a half million dollars is difficult to fit into the budget without some sort of third party funding or long term debt scenario.

02:05:17 Speaker 11: Through the Mayor, I'm if I can't do the math to look at the inflation and cost from that 1990s number to 2.5 million dollars.

02:05:28 Speaker 11: Whenever we last calculated that, I worry that continuing to include projects like that, that are, from my perspective, just clearly financial liabilities,

02:05:38 Speaker 11: even if it costs money operationally to get a grader in there to put some more fill down, that that sets us up for less responsible future fiscal management.

02:05:51 Speaker 11: Why do we continue to keep things like that in the?

02:05:53 Speaker 11: Plan, and is it possible, or is there a benefit to removing big-ticket items if we don't believe that they're helpful or responsible now, as we did with other projects previously in the term?

02:06:09 Speaker 11: Thank you, Councillor Farmer, through your worship.

02:06:11 Speaker 05: That project is because it's been on since whenever they paved the original section, but it's also received.

02:06:20 Speaker 05: That's probably one of the projects that we receive the most informal feedback about why that parking lot has not been rehabilitated,

02:06:27 Speaker 05: but also carrying that forward over the years is that if a project like this gets moved out or if there's no long-term plan,

02:06:37 Speaker 05: you're going to see staff maybe come back with another X amount of dollars to repave it,

02:06:41 Speaker 05: or you're going to see a request to increase the annual operating budget to bring it up to a different level of standard.

02:06:47 Speaker 05: And I know the Director of Community Services maybe has some additional feedback for that.

02:07:02 Speaker 05: The next project was the Deputy Mayor about the cemetrey spoils area management.

02:07:14 Speaker 19: Yeah, could you expand on what that is?

02:07:20 Speaker 19: And just how many people, and in what way it does impact them.

02:07:24 Speaker 19: Those houses; there's no new houses have been constructed there.

02:07:29 Speaker 19: In I mean, 30 years since those houses.

02:07:34 Speaker 19: Anyway, why is this an issue now that populates before us?

02:07:41 Speaker 13: Through your worship, I believe this is a project that is in the unfunded list.

02:07:46 Speaker 13: We did, and...

02:07:47 Speaker 13: I'm trying to think.

02:07:48 Speaker 13: I think it was last year.

02:07:50 Speaker 13: We did do quite a bit of work there.

02:07:51 Speaker 13: There were quite a few tree stumps and that type of material that had ended up there.

02:07:56 Speaker 13: I think it's been cleaned up quite a bit, just in terms of being a good neighbour there,

02:08:03 Speaker 13: just managing that area so that it looks tidy and puts forward the sort of image that we'd want to portray in the cemetrey.

02:08:13 Speaker 13: That area is, you know, identified for that use, but in the longer term, in the master plan, you know, the idea is that it would be laid out in lots.

02:08:23 Speaker 13: So, just managing that area, like we would be looking for any person to be managing the lot.

02:08:30 Speaker 13: But it is unfunded, and I think we did quite a bit of work just working with Public Works and taking some trees and that type of thing to the compost site.

02:08:41 Speaker 20: Okay, because I think that's a great example of how much more productive we may have the opportunity to be when we work together.

02:08:54 Speaker 20: I think of Harrison Field as another example, where several years back, Council was having a discussion about four or five ball diamonds.

02:09:01 Speaker 20: Should we do this?

02:09:02 Speaker 20: Get rid of one?

02:09:03 Speaker 20: No, and staff have internally through operational budgets now removed two anyway of those.

02:09:11 Speaker 20: Any way of those original fields, so this is a good example.

02:09:17 Speaker 20: I think of...

02:09:18 Speaker 20: I don't remember that being in the master plan, and is this something that staff are able to internalize some of these costs just within operational budgets?

02:09:27 Speaker 20: We see it all years and years.

02:09:29 Speaker 20: Several years ago, we had lots of discussion about ballards and stairs at Harrison Park.

02:09:33 Speaker 20: Some of the ballards remain.

02:09:35 Speaker 20: Some of the stairs got removed.

02:09:37 Speaker 20: It wasn't contained within the capital, but it was something that was done within operational budget.

02:09:45 Speaker 20: So, I guess I'm pleased to see where departments work together in remedying some of the challenges or problems that creep up, whether it's trees, old trees that have fallen, or whatever.

02:10:00 Speaker 20: But those are my comments.

02:10:03 Speaker 20: There, thanks.

02:10:10 Speaker 20: Thank you.

02:10:11 Speaker 05: The next one I didn't quite capture fully was just that the Deputy Mayor made reference to the master plan,

02:10:16 Speaker 05: but I think it was more so the implementation of some of the other projects from the cemetrey master plan, similar to what you just referenced there.

02:10:28 Speaker 05: Master plan update.

02:10:30 Speaker 19: What year did we just do the Greenwood Cemetrey master plan?

02:10:35 Speaker 19: Because some of the time I feel like...

02:10:37 Speaker 19: I mean twenty...

02:10:37 Speaker 19: I feel like I mean 20 years for a transportation master plan.

02:10:41 Speaker 19: I can understand that.

02:10:42 Speaker 19: That is going to probably be an outcome of the strategic plan.

02:10:47 Speaker 19: One of the initiatives will be to tackle that.

02:10:51 Speaker 19: And 20 years impacts everyone when it comes to transportation.

02:10:58 Speaker 19: But what's the frequency here on the cemetrey master plan update again?

02:11:05 Speaker 19: Through you, Your Worship.

02:11:06 Speaker 19: It was last done in two thousand and nineteen.

02:11:08 Speaker 19: I think approved in two thousand and twenty.

02:11:09 Speaker 13: It was to be a five-year plan, two thousand and twenty to two thousand and twenty-four.

02:11:14 Speaker 13: It's amazing how fast those five years go by.

02:11:16 Speaker 13: We are due for another update, but it is an update.

02:11:19 Speaker 13: We did it last time internally with staff, and that's what we're proposing.

02:11:24 Speaker 13: I believe again we do need some,

02:11:27 Speaker 13: or we are recommending some dollars in the capital budget around surveying some areas in the cemetrey that are currently underutilised and that would be prime lots and locations for future layouts.

02:11:40 Speaker 13: So there, there were some areas left as roads in the original layout plan that we think can be—they've never been roads—we think can be repurposed and generate revenue for the city.

02:11:51 Speaker 13: So that's something we'd be looking at.

02:11:54 Speaker 13: Just you know, engaging with the public, making sure that the services and what we're offering is meeting the needs and what people are looking for today—that's changed dramatically, even in the last ten years.

02:12:12 Speaker 08: On that particular note, management has changed in that area, and I'm certainly pleased with the ideas and repurposing that the manager has done with all the playgrounds.

02:12:26 Speaker 08: So I'm certainly looking forward to something that he can do with the cemetrey as well.

02:12:38 Speaker 08: Thank you.

02:12:39 Speaker 05: The next project was once again the Deputy Mayor with the unfunded projects for the bleachers for St. Julian's Park, at forty thousand dollars.

02:12:47 Speaker 05: So I think I kind of touched on that one.

02:12:48 Speaker 05: Is that if we have some of these assets currently still in place, we have an obligation under things like the Occupiers Liability Act and stuff to maintain them in good condition.

02:12:58 Speaker 05: However, if things change or levels of service change, then those conversations.

02:13:02 Speaker 05: So if it's not necessarily something for today, but you know, coming down the line, we're going to be talking about levels of service.

02:13:08 Speaker 05: You can either talk about it today or wait for kind of an asset management related activity.

02:13:15 Speaker 05: Well, I'll be brief.

02:13:17 Speaker 19: I'm not sure how you could convince anyone that the current bleachers there or an alternative would come remotely close to a quarter of forty thousand dollars.

02:13:31 Speaker 19: But again, like I said earlier, this is an unfunded list, so I'm not too fussed about having to vote on every item to move it or remove it.

02:13:43 Speaker 19: Staff just certainly need to be responding to utilization of the field and so forth.

02:13:50 Speaker 19: But the last ten years, that field doesn't warrant forty thousand dollars being presented for bleachers to be placed in there for no one to sit on watching a game that doesn't develop.

02:14:03 Speaker 13: Pam, Your Worship, I had an opportunity to speak with the Deputy Mayor at the break, and I did just mention, and I will say to all of Council and anyone who may be watching,

02:14:15 Speaker 13: in terms of the return on investment of staff time in working on the capital budget,

02:14:19 Speaker 13: and you've had two reports now from our new Manager of Parks and Open Spaces—one last July and one this past May—and we're...

02:14:25 Speaker 13: One this past May, and we're really focusing on existing assets, trying to refurbish and rejuvenate those not expanding assets.

02:14:36 Speaker 13: We haven't spent a lot of time on the unfunded list because it is on the unfunded list.

02:14:40 Speaker 13: And probably before we come back with capital in December, I'll commit to you that we'll get through that list and take things off there that really should be removed from there.

02:14:51 Speaker 13: So, certainly noted, and we'll do that work.

02:14:56 Speaker 13: On bleachers, just on bleachers, we've got some.

02:15:01 Speaker 09: I think Board of Education probably has some.

02:15:03 Speaker 09: Some for folk rent, some for the top of the hill.

02:15:08 Speaker 09: So, way of working with a...

02:15:09 Speaker 09: I'm throwing this out.

02:15:10 Speaker 09: I'm not doing it by motion, but just throwing out the idea of working with potential partners on some kind of shared portable that we could move around.

02:15:20 Speaker 09: I just throw that out.

02:15:25 Speaker 09: Yes, thank you.

02:15:25 Speaker 05: The next project was the Deputy Mayor on the Duncan McCallum scoreboard.

02:15:28 Speaker 05: It was a new addition to that.

02:15:31 Speaker 05: I believe it came up in conversation with the Manager of Parks and Open Spaces,

02:15:35 Speaker 05: having with some of the local user groups and identifying these assets as they've been collecting information for the asset management plan.

02:15:42 Speaker 05: So it's a project that's been flagged because of deficiency on it.

02:15:46 Speaker 05: But I think one of the reasons why it wasn't included in the multi-year capital plan as a funded project is that it's just simply been flagged right now,

02:15:53 Speaker 05: and it's something that they will continue to work on and finalize and have those conversations.

02:15:58 Speaker 05: It gets that project into the mix as well.

02:16:01 Speaker 05: That if community users or groups start to really petition us for it, we can show them this unfunded list and say, "Okay, we need a bit of help."

02:16:09 Speaker 05: And I think we saw that at Tom Williams Park, is that there was some funding there to get the scoreboard started, but we needed a little bit more help.

02:16:16 Speaker 05: And we, through the donations for that project, we were able to achieve that project.

02:16:21 Speaker 05: So I think having some of these projects on that unfunded list, potentially including even like the Centennial Tower today, now it really starts the conversation.

02:16:29 Speaker 05: So these projects may never occur, but they might also occur sooner or later because we have some community interest in them.

02:16:38 Speaker 19: Yeah, and again, I don't want to go too much further on this one.

02:16:40 Speaker 19: There is one hundred and seventy thousand dollars that I believe is in the twenty-six capital plan for starting design and some of the early works for Duncan McClellan.

02:16:55 Speaker 19: But when we get more information coming back on what those design elements are, and some of the needs assessment, that's the time I think you have the conversation,

02:17:06 Speaker 19: and you have full reports that show just what is that utilization historically for thirty years.

02:17:14 Speaker 19: There was a fastball tournament coming up this weekend.

02:17:17 Speaker 19: It was always a candidate tournament, you know, One Sound, and it was the start of six or seven in every community for the next six or seven weeks.

02:17:27 Speaker 19: But again, now we've got an asset there that times are not what they once upon a time were, and it was getting a lot of use.

02:17:35 Speaker 19: So now there's—we just haven't had those major events.

02:17:40 Speaker 19: Those, but you want to keep it on the list because perhaps a soda beverage company offers a sponsorship opportunity or something.

02:17:51 Speaker 19: So again, just await future reporting because we've already set aside funds in twenty-six for some of those early conversations.

02:18:05 Speaker 04: So, with regard to that specific one hundred and seventy thousand, is it justifiable to spend one hundred and seventy thousand on a possible design?

02:18:15 Speaker 04: If we're not willing to spend the additional five hundred and twenty thousand in upgrades, is my question.

02:18:21 Speaker 04: So, where do we go with that?

02:18:25 Speaker 04: Thank you, Your Worship.

02:18:29 Speaker 13: Just in comparison, there's—and I don't know if council members have had an opportunity to read and review the Community Services agenda for this week.

02:18:39 Speaker 13: But Mr. Pastrik, who's our Manager of Parks and Open Spaces, has.

02:18:42 Speaker 13: Manager, Parks and Open Spaces.

02:18:43 Speaker 13: His approach to design and engagement with the community is thoughtful and intentional.

02:18:51 Speaker 13: He's done a terrific job of the initial design for Owen Heights and Comeret, and I know the same type of approach will be used to understand how those diamonds are used.

02:19:04 Speaker 13: We have great data, which is a bit different than playgrounds, on how they're used and who the people are that will allow us to engage with the community.

02:19:15 Speaker 13: Some of that money, the one hundred fifty thousand dollars, will be for topographical surveys.

02:19:22 Speaker 13: We don't know how to fix the outfield if we don't know what the topography of the outfield.

02:19:27 Speaker 13: So, some of that will need to be spent in order to do that report to come back to committee and council with the scope of work.

02:19:34 Speaker 13: But I think the capital detail sheet talks specifically about sort of the progression and stages of that,

02:19:42 Speaker 13: and certainly it will come back to committee with lots of information and detail before any project is tendered or even ever awarded.

02:19:54 Speaker 13: Okay.

02:19:55 Speaker 13: Yeah.

02:19:56 Speaker 13: Anyone else?

02:19:56 Speaker 13: No. Okay.

02:19:59 Speaker 13: Thank you.

02:19:59 Speaker 05: The next project was the Harrison Park Road Rehabilitation.

02:20:02 Speaker 05: I can provide a bit of context on that one.

02:20:05 Speaker 05: That was one of the projects that was pulled through one of the sessions, I think, in—through one of these sessions, I think in two thousand and twenty-two or two thousand and twenty-three.

02:20:11 Speaker 05: Since that time, staff have completed the road inspections on it.

02:20:17 Speaker 05: The parks or Harrison Park roads, as well as cemetrey roads, were added to the Road Respect or Road Inspection Programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe completed by Engineering.

02:20:25 Speaker 05: So now there's data to support the condition of those roads.

02:20:29 Speaker 05: Those roads are some of the most deteriorated ones within the city.

02:20:34 Speaker 05: I think the next step in our conversation with the Parks and Open Spaces team was to do some traffic studies just to understand the kind of flow of traffic through that site to support the

02:20:45 Speaker 05: project.

02:20:45 Speaker 05: So we're kind of just keeping that high-level number budget in here while staff are doing some more work,

02:20:50 Speaker 05: and then coming back to the budget process with a more detailed plan rather than a two million dollar one-time shot.

02:20:56 Speaker 05: Is there a certain amount of thousand dollars in year one, and two, and three, or five, or ten years down the road?

02:21:02 Speaker 05: It's just keeping that number in here right now so staff know to kind of work on that project on the side.

02:21:16 Speaker 05: Oh, Pam, sorry, Your Worship.

02:21:20 Speaker 13: The budget number for the Harrison Park roads was put in there before the 2024 update to the Master Plan, as the managers noted,

02:21:27 Speaker 13: and sort of that next step identified in the Master Plan is just as Brady's mentioned: to do a scope.

02:21:32 Speaker 13: Mention to do a scope traffic and pedestrian movement study and analysis there to say okay what roads do we need, what roads maybe should be converted to pedestrian-only trails,

02:21:45 Speaker 13: and one that comes to mind is the very deteriorated road that heads to the pool.

02:21:52 Speaker 13: Can we make the other road two-way and make that road to the pool one-way?

02:21:57 Speaker 13: Maybe, maybe not.

02:21:58 Speaker 13: Maybe it's too much money.

02:21:59 Speaker 13: But looking at some of those opportunities as—

02:22:03 Speaker 13: We implement that Harrison Park Master Plan; I just don't know why we—it feels like we make it a lot more work on this,

02:22:17 Speaker 19: where there's 125 to 150 metres of terrible asphalt where the road forks, and just have that remediated as part of our road resurfacing project.

02:22:33 Speaker 19: And yes, I've talked about before the path to the pool, but there are companies out there that we can engage and get requests for quotations on.

02:22:43 Speaker 19: Hey, just resurface it.

02:22:46 Speaker 19: Doesn't have to be perfect.

02:22:46 Speaker 19: Like this, this two million dollars strikes me as a big disconnect between the community's ability to pay and what we can get done just to remediate the worst.

02:22:57 Speaker 19: And the worst is underneath the tunnel that everyone's familiar with, going into the park for the lights; that is brutal, but it's not two million dollars.

02:23:06 Speaker 19: So that's just my comments.

02:23:08 Speaker 19: I mean, the Mayor said 300 people by 2030.

02:23:13 Speaker 19: Even if we get to 250, if we add people, the secret here is growth, and we can start to afford some of the items on the unfunded list.

02:23:21 Speaker 19: But without growth, I mean, you can forget just about all these.

02:23:26 Speaker 19: So that's where our focus has to remain: is growth.

02:23:31 Speaker 19: You figure out how much tax revenue each person that would move to the community would generate per year, and water and wastewater, and what that difference means.

02:23:42 Speaker 19: And then you start to be able to afford some of the dollar figures in here.

02:23:45 Speaker 19: But without significant growth, this is one of many that's just simply not affordable.

02:23:59 Speaker 19: Thank you, Worship.

02:24:00 Speaker 05: The next one was Councillor Farmer requested some further information about DRP and specifically the 900 block of First Avenue West and some of the options that could be available.

02:24:12 Speaker 05: Yes, thank you.

02:24:13 Speaker 11: Through the Mayor, we pulled those final two phases from the multi-year capital plan, but I at least still have people talking to me about what we're doing with the fortress.

02:24:28 Speaker 11: The fact that we have also increased its visibility through the work on DRP 2, I think, makes it more clear that there's room for improvement there.

02:24:41 Speaker 11: I don't remember the full cost for that block's worth of proposal as initially laid out in the four phases of the River Precinct renovation,

02:24:52 Speaker 11: and I'm wondering what it would look like to potentially even just remove the fortress that's there, the masonry walls.

02:25:02 Speaker 11: Even if we could use the same concrete pad that is currently there, put up a railing that matches the wire mesh and wood construction on the other side of the bank,

02:25:13 Speaker 11: and create something that ties both sides together from a visual perspective and reduces the opportunity for folks to seek seclusion in those places,

02:25:25 Speaker 11: either for housing or activities that might make other users uncomfortable accessing the space.

02:25:36 Speaker 11: So, I guess the question is, what was the original cost of that phase of the River Precinct,

02:25:41 Speaker 11: and could staff provide some insight in a future meeting on what it would cost to simply address the fortress?

02:25:48 Speaker 09: Well, Brady is looking that up, and Scott can maybe help me with this.

02:25:51 Speaker 09: My recollection was that we put a hold on that because we wanted to put that money into Office Street and Fourth Avenue West.

02:25:58 Speaker 09: Do you remember?

02:25:59 Speaker 09: Yeah.

02:26:03 Speaker 09: I think that I think that was redirecting grants at the time.

02:26:05 Speaker 09: Pam.

02:26:07 Speaker 09: Thank you, Your Worship.

02:26:08 Speaker 13: The initial estimates for DRP phases one through four were done in 2018, and I think if we could find the number from 2018, I think seven years later, we'd want to refresh that number.

02:26:23 Speaker 13: We hadn't done anything that would sort of parcel out the fortress.

02:26:28 Speaker 13: It is a bit of a blank canvas.

02:26:30 Speaker 13: We fought some graffiti there the last few summers.

02:26:33 Speaker 13: So, removing it in a way that would still, you know, create that space.

02:26:41 Speaker 13: Perhaps what we could do is come back to Council in the December update with some high-level estimates of what something like you've talked about would cost,

02:26:51 Speaker 13: and we could bring that forward in December if that's Council's wish.

02:26:56 Speaker 11: I would move that Council direct staff to return to the December meeting with a high-level estimate and information on what an update specifically to the fortress area in that block could look like.

02:27:25 Speaker 11: Good.

02:27:27 Speaker 11: You want to read it back to us, through your Worship?

02:27:35 Speaker 16: That City Council directs staff to bring forward a report for the December meeting, respecting options for the fortress.

02:27:43 Speaker 16: Good.

02:27:44 Speaker 16: Good.

02:27:45 Speaker 16: Any further questions?

02:27:46 Speaker 16: Seeing none.

02:27:47 Speaker 16: All in favour?

02:27:48 Speaker 16: That's carried.

02:27:49 Speaker 16: Good.

02:27:52 Speaker 16: Thank you, Your Worship.

02:27:54 Speaker 05: The final one from that was set aside during the presentation was the replacement of the seating at the Bayshore, and the Deputy Mayor just kind of asking about doing it all at one time,

02:28:08 Speaker 05: or whether there were options that could come back at a later update.

02:28:11 Speaker 05: Similarly.

02:28:12 Speaker 05: Well, it does beg a question to be asked.

02:28:17 Speaker 14: But if staff looked at because the wording about no parts being available for seats as they break,

02:28:24 Speaker 14: doing a staged refurbishment of the facility generates a bunch of parts that apparently are hard to come by right now.

02:28:34 Speaker 14: So, has that been considered?

02:28:37 Speaker 14: And perhaps it makes it worthy of considering.

02:28:40 Speaker 05: To the Deputy Mayor, through your Worship, I think kind of once again this is something that we should be updating the number that's utilised in here.

02:28:51 Speaker 05: It was our intention at that time to add to the community sport recreation infrastructure fund on a larger scale.

02:28:59 Speaker 05: So I think when we initially looked at this, we knew that the grant opportunity was coming down the line, but I don't think we knew the exact parametres.

02:29:07 Speaker 05: So I think our intention was to include the whole thing alongside the glass replacement and the ice surface replacement.

02:29:13 Speaker 05: But then, when we got the guidelines for the programmemememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe, we were going to exceed what we were going to be able to fund.

02:29:19 Speaker 05: I think there is potential to do it through various phases over the grand scheme of things, over the entirety of the project.

02:29:27 Speaker 05: It will cost us considerably more to do it that way, only because we'll pay for multiple mobilizations, demobilizations, and all that administrative overhead.

02:29:35 Speaker 05: But it's something that I'm sure we could include in a future update, more of a detailed plan.

02:29:41 Speaker 05: Now knowing that we can't apply for that grant opportunity, and the likelihood that we're going to get another recreation grant in the next couple of years because we've just got this one will be very,

02:29:51 Speaker 05: very low.

02:29:56 Speaker 05: I'm amazed at hockey games.

02:29:58 Speaker 09: How many questions I get about the back parking lot because somebody's just stepped into a puddle, and I suggesting that we shouldn't be redoing the ice making equipment.

02:30:07 Speaker 09: We should have done that first from someone.

02:30:09 Speaker 09: So that was just interesting in the community.

02:30:13 Speaker 09: Anything else in your list?

02:30:16 Speaker 09: John says he has two more things.

02:30:20 Speaker 11: First, a question related to parks and open spaces.

02:30:23 Speaker 11: Just as we were talking about Harrison Park, that two million dollars for paving is also the amount of money that ash tree removal is forecasted to cost between 2026 and 2030.

02:30:39 Speaker 11: When we first finished the assessment of ash risk and liability, we needed more money than we were comfortable allocating.

02:30:49 Speaker 11: I'm wondering about how many of those high-risk trees we've or priority trees we've removed so far, and if yeah, and where we're at in terms of need versus allocated funding right now.