Grey County Committee of the Whole Meeting Transcript — October 9, 2025

00:48:32 Speaker 01: switch over. Thank you. I'd like

00:48:35 Speaker 01: to call to order this committee.

00:48:36 Speaker 01: The whole. meeting of October 9th,

00:48:38 Speaker 01: 2025. At this point in time,

00:48:39 Speaker 01: I'll put out a call if

00:48:41 Speaker 01: there are any declarations of interest

00:48:42 Speaker 01: on this agenda. Seeing no hands

00:48:43 Speaker 26: raised, we'll move on. We have

00:48:47 Speaker 26: business arising from the minutes. We

00:48:50 Speaker 26: have one notice of motion from

00:48:52 Speaker 26: Councillor Gregg. So in a moment,

00:48:54 Speaker 26: Councillor Gregg, I will ask you

00:48:56 Speaker 26: to read out your notice of

00:48:58 Speaker 26: motion without any explanation or intro.

00:49:01 Speaker 26: I'll look for a seconder for

00:49:03 Speaker 26: you, and if we have a

00:49:07 Speaker 26: seconder and it's on the floor

00:49:09 Speaker 26: for discussion, I will return to

00:49:12 Speaker 26: you directly. So, would you like

00:49:13 Speaker 26: to? Could you read? Sorry, the

00:49:16 Speaker 26: way we usually do it back

00:49:19 Speaker 26: home is the person who's serving

00:49:21 Speaker 26: the notice of motion reads it

00:49:24 Speaker 26: out, and then we look for

00:49:27 Speaker 26: a seconder before there's any discussion.

00:49:29 Speaker 26: So, over to you. The mic

00:49:32 Speaker 26: is yours. Thank you, Gordon Matyszak,

00:49:35 Speaker 26: and I'd like to introduce the

00:49:37 Speaker 26: notice of motion. Whereas Part Two

00:49:39 Speaker 26: of the Municipal Act generally confers

00:49:43 Speaker 01: broad authority on the municipality to

00:49:47 Speaker 01: enable the municipality. to govern its

00:49:50 Speaker 01: affairs as it considers appropriate, and

00:49:52 Speaker 01: to enhance the municipality's ability to

00:49:54 Speaker 01: respond to municipal issues, and whereas

00:49:56 Speaker 01: community safety is of foremost concern

00:49:57 Speaker 01: to residents, and whereas automated speed

00:49:59 Speaker 01: traffic cameras assist in responding to

00:50:01 Speaker 01: resident concerns, now therefore be it

00:50:03 Speaker 01: resolved that this council asks MPP

00:50:08 Speaker 27: Vickers and MPP Saunderson to support

00:50:10 Speaker 27: this position in opposing any provincial

00:50:12 Speaker 27: legislation introduced to. prohibit the use

00:50:14 Speaker 27: of automated speed enforcement, and that

00:50:18 Speaker 27: this resolution be circulated to each

00:50:21 Speaker 27: municipality within Grey County, requesting their

00:50:24 Speaker 27: endorsement, and that the resolution be

00:50:25 Speaker 27: sent to Premier Ford, Minister of

00:50:27 Speaker 27: Transportation Pravmeet Sakharia, MPP Vickers, and

00:50:32 Speaker 27: MPP Saunderson. Thank you very much.

00:50:34 Speaker 27: And I okay. Well, sorry. Directionally,

00:50:37 Speaker 27: I saw Councillor Dobrine will second

00:50:38 Speaker 27: that motion, but I. In that

00:50:40 Speaker 27: motion, but I did acknowledge the

00:50:41 Speaker 27: other hands that have been raised.

00:50:44 Speaker 27: It's now on the floor for

00:50:46 Speaker 27: discussion. So I will look to

00:50:48 Speaker 27: Councillor Greg to introduce your notice.

00:50:50 Speaker 27: Any further details you'd like to

00:50:53 Speaker 27: provide? Thank you. And I'd like

00:50:57 Speaker 27: to just provide this notice also

00:50:59 Speaker 27: as a tribute to a member

00:51:01 Speaker 27: of our community in Owen Sound

00:51:05 Speaker 27: who campaigned for years, canvassing for

00:51:08 Speaker 27: candidates who were strong supporters of

00:51:10 Speaker 27: looking after. the taxpayer—that's something that

00:51:13 Speaker 27: Bill King, who was a member

00:51:15 Speaker 27: for many years on our operations

00:51:17 Speaker 27: committee in Oceansound, advocated for and

00:51:19 Speaker 27: supported initiatives that looked after the

00:51:22 Speaker 27: taxpayer. And we lost Bill probably

00:51:24 Speaker 27: a little more than a year

00:51:26 Speaker 27: ago. But this is somewhat of

00:51:28 Speaker 27: a tribute to to Bill because

00:51:30 Speaker 27: he was a strong advocate for

00:51:32 Speaker 27: community safety, and automated speed enforcement

00:51:33 Speaker 27: and cameras were part of that

00:51:37 Speaker 27: in Bill's in Bill's mind. So

00:51:39 Speaker 27: I am. quite bothered by what

00:51:43 Speaker 27: the premier is has initiated here.

00:51:45 Speaker 27: It is demonstrated when he announced

00:51:47 Speaker 27: this legislation. He had the mayor

00:51:48 Speaker 27: of Vaughan standing beside him. Vaughan

00:51:49 Speaker 27: removed traffic cameras in their communities,

00:51:52 Speaker 27: and that is fine. That's democracy

00:51:54 Speaker 27: as it should be, and I

00:51:56 Speaker 27: applaud him for that. But I

00:51:57 Speaker 27: think what is most important is

00:52:02 Speaker 27: that the municipalities have the opportunity.

00:52:08 Speaker 27: to decide whether or not those

00:52:11 Speaker 27: traffic cameras are something that are

00:52:15 Speaker 27: a benefit in their community that

00:52:17 Speaker 27: respond to residents' concerns. And if

00:52:19 Speaker 27: you do not feel that way

00:52:22 Speaker 27: and you have them in already

00:52:24 Speaker 27: installed, you can walk back that

00:52:26 Speaker 27: decision municipally. It's a municipal decision.

00:52:28 Speaker 27: And he aligned himself the day

00:52:31 Speaker 27: he announced the legislation with other

00:52:32 Speaker 27: mayors who demonstrated that it is

00:52:35 Speaker 27: a municipal decision, and it's a

00:52:36 Speaker 27: municipal decision as provided. It's a

00:52:39 Speaker 27: municipal decision. It's provided in the

00:52:42 Speaker 27: Municipal Act. If you want to

00:52:44 Speaker 27: take away the ability for municipalities

00:52:47 Speaker 27: to look after resident concerns, change

00:52:49 Speaker 27: the Municipal Act. I challenge you

00:52:54 Speaker 27: to do that because that invites

00:52:56 Speaker 27: a whole lot more public input

00:52:58 Speaker 27: and a lot more time. It's

00:53:01 Speaker 27: announced that the assault on the

00:53:03 Speaker 27: taxpayer is over, and I ask

00:53:04 Speaker 27: myself, really, who do you think

00:53:07 Speaker 27: funds the provincial government and all

00:53:08 Speaker 27: the infrastructure that you're now asking

00:53:11 Speaker 27: to be created out of a

00:53:13 Speaker 27: new fund? What I'd like to

00:53:15 Speaker 27: do is invite the premier to

00:53:17 Speaker 27: come to Owen Sound to visit

00:53:19 Speaker 27: with me and one of our

00:53:20 Speaker 27: fine men and women who drive

00:53:23 Speaker 27: a snowplow and a fire truck,

00:53:26 Speaker 27: and we will crush a box

00:53:28 Speaker 27: of Chapman's ice cream bars as

00:53:30 Speaker 27: we walk around the city, and

00:53:34 Speaker 27: we will inform the premier. and

00:53:36 Speaker 27: the premier's staff of what kind

00:53:38 Speaker 27: of obstacles that speed bumps and

00:53:41 Speaker 27: enhanced crosswalks provide in terms of

00:53:44 Speaker 27: the machinery and the mechanics in

00:53:46 Speaker 27: a snowy area that we have

00:53:48 Speaker 27: to look after for for five,

00:53:53 Speaker 27: hopefully not six months of the

00:53:56 Speaker 27: year. But it's hard on equipment.

00:53:59 Speaker 27: It's hard on money. It's hard

00:54:02 Speaker 27: on the taxpayer. It's hard on

00:54:04 Speaker 27: people who we're not breaking the

00:54:05 Speaker 27: law if you don't speed. that's

00:54:08 Speaker 27: it's a fundamental easy question. If

00:54:11 Speaker 27: you don't want to get fined,

00:54:13 Speaker 27: don't speed past a school or

00:54:16 Speaker 27: through a community safety zone. Hopefully,

00:54:18 Speaker 27: you learn your lesson. And then

00:54:21 Speaker 27: it's not resultant upon the taxpayers

00:54:23 Speaker 27: who may not have a car,

00:54:27 Speaker 27: who may choose to walk as

00:54:29 Speaker 27: their means of transportation or use

00:54:30 Speaker 27: public transit. These are the people

00:54:33 Speaker 27: now that are being asked to

00:54:36 Speaker 27: pay more taxes for a new

00:54:40 Speaker 27: fund. provincially to resolve to respond

00:54:43 Speaker 27: to speeding that may or may

00:54:46 Speaker 27: not make a difference in moving

00:54:48 Speaker 27: the needle. It reminds me of

00:54:49 Speaker 27: to steal a quote from Abraham

00:54:51 Speaker 27: Lincoln. Let's have a government for

00:54:53 Speaker 27: the people, by the people, and

00:54:55 Speaker 08: that's why I would hope the

00:55:00 Speaker 08: premier would entertain a free vote

00:55:02 Speaker 08: at Queen's Park, so that each

00:55:03 Speaker 08: legislator can represent their people and

00:55:05 Speaker 08: not have a whip vote. Where

00:55:08 Speaker 28: we've lost that ability now to

00:55:12 Speaker 28: have meaningful dialogueue at Queen's Park.

00:55:15 Speaker 28: Let's have democracy. Let's have a

00:55:17 Speaker 28: free vote. Let's have legislators who've

00:55:20 Speaker 28: been elected represent their communities. We

00:55:22 Speaker 28: are here as mayors and deputy

00:55:24 Speaker 28: mayors representing what we think is

00:55:26 Speaker 28: best in our communities. I'm asking

00:55:28 Speaker 28: this council to ensure that we

00:55:31 Speaker 28: have the opportunity. to address those

00:55:35 Speaker 28: items in our community without those

00:55:36 Speaker 28: abilities being taken away from us

00:55:38 Speaker 28: and positioned in the sole hands

00:55:42 Speaker 28: of one person and the prime

00:55:45 Speaker 28: minister's office or the premier's office,

00:55:47 Speaker 28: which has become far too prevalent,

00:55:50 Speaker 28: it seems, in the last several

00:55:54 Speaker 28: years. Thank you. Okay. Thank you

00:55:55 Speaker 28: very much for that introduction. So

00:55:57 Speaker 28: it is now on the floor

00:55:58 Speaker 28: for discussion. From further comments from

00:56:01 Speaker 28: other council members. We'll go to

00:56:04 Speaker 28: Councillor Nielsen. Thank you very much,

00:56:07 Speaker 28: Ward Matrosov. The biggest concern with

00:56:08 Speaker 28: the way the province is addressing

00:56:14 Speaker 28: this is trying to attack it

00:56:17 Speaker 28: as if it is a municipality

00:56:18 Speaker 28: trying to do a cash grab,

00:56:20 Speaker 28: and this is the terminology that

00:56:23 Speaker 28: the premier is using, and it

00:56:25 Speaker 28: is frustrating to what Councillor Greg

00:56:27 Speaker 28: just spoke to, when the objective

00:56:29 Speaker 28: is to try. to change the

00:56:31 Speaker 28: culture of speeding within Ontario. Currently,

00:56:33 Speaker 28: wherever you go, the general culture

00:56:39 Speaker 28: is twenty kilometres over a speed

00:56:41 Speaker 28: limit. We design roads, and then

00:56:43 Speaker 28: we have repeated calls on probably

00:56:45 Speaker 28: weekly basis. For everybody here, gets

00:56:47 Speaker 28: a call from some resident talking

00:56:49 Speaker 28: about the speeding across and in

00:56:51 Speaker 28: front of their property and in

00:56:56 Speaker 28: front of their area. Trying to

00:56:57 Speaker 28: implement a culture change takes many

00:57:00 Speaker 28: different measures. Takes many different methods.

00:57:02 Speaker 28: The premier responded to a letter

00:57:03 Speaker 28: that was sent to him by

00:57:05 Speaker 28: many different mayors and and local

00:57:06 Speaker 28: municipal politicians from across Ontario by

00:57:07 Speaker 29: saying, "If the objective of the

00:57:13 Speaker 29: speed camera is to prevent speeding,

00:57:15 Speaker 29: then it's failing miserably." Well, according

00:57:17 Speaker 24: to that standard, then your stop

00:57:22 Speaker 24: signs are failing, your signage for

00:57:24 Speaker 24: the speed limit is failing, your

00:57:29 Speaker 24: signage for for crosswalks is failing

00:57:33 Speaker 24: because everywhere. there is a culture

00:57:36 Speaker 24: of impatience, of driver lack of

00:57:40 Speaker 24: driver empathy in terms of who's

00:57:42 Speaker 24: around them, it is a method

00:57:45 Speaker 24: to try to address that. In

00:57:47 Speaker 24: addition to all the other things

00:57:51 Speaker 24: we're trying to change, I think

00:57:54 Speaker 24: that there is a frustration with

00:57:58 Speaker 24: Premier Ford overstepping into what the

00:58:01 Speaker 24: motion is speaking to our jurisdiction

00:58:05 Speaker 24: of trying to make controls, but

00:58:06 Speaker 30: fundamentally. for me, this is a

00:58:11 Speaker 30: safety thing that residents bring up

00:58:14 Speaker 30: time and time again. We're trying

00:58:15 Speaker 30: to change the culture, and the

00:58:18 Speaker 30: premier is preventing us from doing.

00:58:19 Speaker 30: Thank you, and we'll go to

00:58:21 Speaker 30: Councillor Dobrin. Thank you, and as

00:58:23 Speaker 07: the secondor, thank you for recognizing

00:58:27 Speaker 07: me. I have to echo both

00:58:28 Speaker 07: speakers, both of my colleagues, but

00:58:32 Speaker 07: also, not all municipalities have. are

00:58:33 Speaker 07: are are sorry. Let me rephrase

00:58:35 Speaker 07: this. Most municipalities with automated speed

00:58:37 Speaker 07: enforcement are following the guidelines and

00:58:40 Speaker 07: the revenue that they are getting,

00:58:41 Speaker 07: which isn't the full amount because

00:58:43 Speaker 07: the province gets a significant portion

00:58:44 Speaker 07: of that, are reinvesting the revenue

00:58:47 Speaker 07: specifically for improved safety in those

00:58:49 Speaker 07: community safety zones. So. that the

00:58:51 Speaker 07: taxpayer isn't on the hook for

00:58:56 Speaker 07: those improvements. That's my comment, and

00:59:01 Speaker 07: I was pleased to support this

00:59:03 Speaker 07: motion. Thank you. Other comments? We'll

00:59:04 Speaker 07: go to Councillor McQueen. Thank you,

00:59:05 Speaker 07: Madam Warden. I may be a

00:59:09 Speaker 07: devil devil's advocate here, but just

00:59:11 Speaker 07: I see two parts in this

00:59:13 Speaker 07: notice of motion. One is the

00:59:14 Speaker 07: the ability for municipalities to make

00:59:18 Speaker 07: decisions. Well, back in 1980. 1990.

00:59:20 Speaker 07: Sorry, I gotta get my dates

00:59:22 Speaker 07: here. 2008, 2009. There's what they

00:59:24 Speaker 07: call the Green Energy Act came

00:59:27 Speaker 07: into play. It took away our

00:59:29 Speaker 07: ability to decide for green energy

00:59:30 Speaker 07: projects, and that wasn't playing until

00:59:34 Speaker 07: for quite a long time. And

00:59:35 Speaker 07: there was a lot of discussion

00:59:36 Speaker 07: around that. I know with us

00:59:38 Speaker 07: and Greenhounds, we developed policy around

00:59:39 Speaker 07: placement of turbines, and that was

00:59:40 Speaker 07: early. So it's not unique that

00:59:42 Speaker 07: we've dealt with legislation that does.

00:59:44 Speaker 07: direct or guide or basically tells

00:59:47 Speaker 07: what the lower tier or the

00:59:50 Speaker 07: municipalities what they because we are

00:59:51 Speaker 07: creatures of the province we know

00:59:53 Speaker 07: that right on the part of

00:59:54 Speaker 07: speed cameras I remember at the

00:59:56 Speaker 07: Firesham Fair a few weeks back

00:59:58 Speaker 07: having a large discussion where a

01:00:00 Speaker 07: number of people having concern of

01:00:01 Speaker 07: a of a particular area of

01:00:03 Speaker 07: a municipality south of of Greyhounds

01:00:04 Speaker 07: that had speed cameras. and the

01:00:06 Speaker 07: threshold was two kilometres over the

01:00:09 Speaker 07: speed. So if it was a

01:00:12 Speaker 07: forty, you got a ticket for

01:00:13 Speaker 07: forty-two, which seemed it was quite

01:00:15 Speaker 07: a bit of a concern around

01:00:17 Speaker 07: that. And that I I go

01:00:19 Speaker 07: to the threshold. It was just

01:00:20 Speaker 07: on the news two days ago.

01:00:22 Speaker 07: One of the councillors from the

01:00:23 Speaker 07: City of Toronto is going to

01:00:25 Speaker 07: advocate because the threshold is not

01:00:27 Speaker 07: disclosed. I think in the sense

01:00:29 Speaker 07: of of of our democracy and

01:00:31 Speaker 07: everything else, why don't the people

01:00:34 Speaker 07: know what that threshold is? We'll

01:00:36 Speaker 07: know what that threshold is if

01:00:38 Speaker 07: it's ten over or twelve over

01:00:40 Speaker 07: or five over or two over.

01:00:42 Speaker 07: So I think there's a bit

01:00:43 Speaker 07: of a, and I think as

01:00:45 Speaker 07: as Deputy Mayor or Councillor Nielsen

01:00:47 Speaker 07: said, it's an understanding that if

01:00:48 Speaker 07: you're on a provincial highway or

01:00:51 Speaker 07: municipal road or whatever, that from

01:00:53 Speaker 07: a from a police perspective, if

01:00:55 Speaker 07: you're maybe under fifteen, and yeah,

01:00:56 Speaker 07: that's just the way it has

01:00:57 Speaker 07: been. I think nobody's going to

01:00:59 Speaker 07: disagree with that. We know that.

01:01:00 Speaker 07: So I think the threshold is

01:01:03 Speaker 07: one of the issues that that

01:01:05 Speaker 07: I know that was a big.

01:01:07 Speaker 07: That I know, that was the

01:01:10 Speaker 07: big the discussion that I had

01:01:12 Speaker 07: with a number of people. There,

01:01:14 Speaker 07: some of the other things I've

01:01:17 Speaker 07: heard is is if it was

01:01:20 Speaker 07: set up for community safety zones

01:01:22 Speaker 07: and school zones, I also hear

01:01:24 Speaker 07: it's in other zones. There's no

01:01:26 Speaker 07: debate for the protection of kids

01:01:27 Speaker 07: or those areas where the pedestrians.

01:01:29 Speaker 07: I, you know, maybe there needs

01:01:31 Speaker 07: to be rework of this, but

01:01:33 Speaker 07: not totally out. I don't disagree

01:01:35 Speaker 07: with that, but that is something

01:01:38 Speaker 07: else that it's been other areas

01:01:41 Speaker 07: that I've heard. I don't know

01:01:43 Speaker 07: a lot about. this. Signage has

01:01:44 Speaker 07: been another thing that we interesting

01:01:45 Speaker 07: that the city of Toronto has

01:01:48 Speaker 07: said, "Look, we need more signs

01:01:50 Speaker 07: that we need to tell people."

01:01:51 Speaker 07: So maybe there has been a

01:01:53 Speaker 07: few issues that needs to be

01:01:55 Speaker 07: rectified. I heard of an example

01:01:58 Speaker 30: of that same community, South of

01:02:02 Speaker 30: Grey Highlands, that a fella was

01:02:04 Speaker 30: racing to the hospital because his

01:02:05 Speaker 30: mother was dying at four thirty

01:02:06 Speaker 30: in the morning. At four thirty

01:02:08 Speaker 30: in the morning, and got a

01:02:10 Speaker 30: huge tech. You got a huge

01:02:12 Speaker 30: ticket. We're and and so, is

01:02:16 Speaker 14: a safety zone at four thirty

01:02:19 Speaker 14: in the morning. I know on

01:02:21 Speaker 14: Gray Road Four, we have the

01:02:26 Speaker 14: flashing light and max will goes

01:02:29 Speaker 14: off when it's a school goes

01:02:31 Speaker 14: from fifty to forty. It's a

01:02:33 Speaker 14: school zone. It's reduced speed at

01:02:35 Speaker 14: the time when there's buses and

01:02:38 Speaker 14: kids. So I guess in summary,

01:02:40 Speaker 14: you know, I think the intention

01:02:42 Speaker 14: was there. I think there needs

01:02:44 Speaker 14: to be a rework and some

01:02:47 Speaker 14: of this stuff to maybe get

01:02:48 Speaker 14: more public support. and I just

01:02:50 Speaker 14: think that there's there's a lot

01:02:53 Speaker 14: of there's a lot of dynamics

01:02:56 Speaker 14: here that one size isn't fitting

01:02:58 Speaker 14: all, and I think one of

01:03:01 Speaker 14: the things is the threshold. I'll

01:03:04 Speaker 14: leave it at that. Okay, thank

01:03:06 Speaker 14: you very much. Just looking around

01:03:08 Speaker 14: for any first hands before I

01:03:09 Speaker 14: go back to any additional comments.

01:03:13 Speaker 14: Not seeing any, so I'll go

01:03:16 Speaker 14: back to Council. Oh, I'll go

01:03:18 Speaker 14: to Council Deputy Warden Milne, and

01:03:22 Speaker 14: then over to Councillor Doigreen. Thank

01:03:25 Speaker 14: you, Warden. I think the fundamental

01:03:27 Speaker 14: thing here is the speed limit

01:03:30 Speaker 14: is the law. So if the

01:03:34 Speaker 14: speed limit's forty, you're regardless of

01:03:35 Speaker 31: what you think the threshold should

01:03:41 Speaker 31: be. If you're over forty, you're

01:03:44 Speaker 31: breaking the law, whether you're in

01:03:46 Speaker 31: a safety zone or not. So

01:03:50 Speaker 31: if I hurt somebody in the

01:03:53 Speaker 31: middle of the night at four

01:03:57 Speaker 31: thirty, speed. At 4:30, speeding, do

01:03:58 Speaker 31: I get a lesser fine? Is

01:04:00 Speaker 31: that sort of the logic that

01:04:03 Speaker 31: we're going through here? I had

01:04:07 Speaker 31: a discussion with the local MPP,

01:04:10 Speaker 31: and he stated that he had

01:04:12 Speaker 31: heard that a local business has

01:04:14 Speaker 31: incurred over a thousand dollars in

01:04:16 Speaker 31: speeding fines, and that was unfair.

01:04:19 Speaker 31: I said, well, the logical thing

01:04:25 Speaker 31: would be for that company to

01:04:26 Speaker 31: slow down, and they wouldn't get

01:04:28 Speaker 31: the fine. It's as simple as

01:04:30 Speaker 31: that. But to bring it right

01:04:31 Speaker 31: back to what the motion is

01:04:34 Speaker 31: speaking to, if the premier really

01:04:37 Speaker 07: wants to dictate your municipalities, what

01:04:40 Speaker 07: they should do, there's an election

01:04:41 Speaker 07: next year for municipal government, and

01:04:43 Speaker 07: maybe he should run there. Otherwise,

01:04:44 Speaker 07: stick to your net. Thank you,

01:04:45 Speaker 07: Madam Warden. Thank you. And just

01:04:48 Speaker 07: in follow up, I know that

01:04:52 Speaker 07: the Big City Mayors Caucus from

01:04:56 Speaker 07: AMO and a an interview with

01:04:57 Speaker 07: the Mayor of Burlington, Marianne Mead

01:04:58 Speaker 07: Ward. I believe the ask it's

01:05:01 Speaker 07: not to throw the baby out

01:05:03 Speaker 07: with the bathwater. Don't throw out

01:05:05 Speaker 07: the tool that can benefit our

01:05:08 Speaker 07: communities. Let's visit what the threshold

01:05:11 Speaker 07: should be. Let's visit what. additional

01:05:12 Speaker 07: signage there should be. Let's visit

01:05:14 Speaker 07: if there's a time frame, but

01:05:15 Speaker 07: let's have the conversation as opposed

01:05:18 Speaker 07: to ripping tools out of our

01:05:19 Speaker 07: toolbox that help us protect our

01:05:20 Speaker 07: citizens. Okay, thank you. I don't

01:05:22 Speaker 07: see any other further first hand,

01:05:24 Speaker 07: so I'll go back to Councillor

01:05:26 Speaker 07: McQueen. Well, thank you, Madam Warden,

01:05:28 Speaker 07: and I'm just communicating comments that

01:05:33 Speaker 07: have been made to me. Further

01:05:36 Speaker 07: from that. situation, the individual that,

01:05:38 Speaker 08: and I'll tell you, if I

01:05:39 Speaker 08: have a loved one that's dying

01:05:42 Speaker 08: and I only have so much

01:05:50 Speaker 08: time to get there, I may

01:05:52 Speaker 08: speed as well. It's my choice,

01:05:54 Speaker 08: absolutely. But I have heard that

01:05:55 Speaker 08: that individual has got that ticket

01:05:57 Speaker 08: removed. But the point is, when

01:05:58 Speaker 08: there's a police officer that does

01:06:00 Speaker 08: pull you over, there is maybe

01:06:01 Speaker 08: some discretionary discussion around that. And

01:06:03 Speaker 08: with the tickets, there's no discretionary.

01:06:05 Speaker 08: It's get the ticket. Obviously, this

01:06:07 Speaker 08: individual did follow up and and

01:06:09 Speaker 08: did. But I think, in a

01:06:11 Speaker 08: sense of from a public's perspective,

01:06:13 Speaker 08: it's maybe the public split on

01:06:14 Speaker 08: this. But I think, in a

01:06:15 Speaker 08: sense that maybe to what Councillor

01:06:17 Speaker 08: Debrine has said is, it needs

01:06:20 Speaker 08: to be a rework and and

01:06:22 Speaker 08: maybe use the tool specifically to

01:06:23 Speaker 08: what it's designed for and

01:06:25 Speaker 08: and you know from that. But

01:06:27 Speaker 08: I'm just communicating comments that I

01:06:29 Speaker 08: have received. Okay, thank you. Looking

01:06:31 Speaker 08: online, looking. around the table, not

01:06:33 Speaker 08: seeing any other hands up for

01:06:38 Speaker 08: discussion, so I'll call the vote.

01:06:41 Speaker 08: All those in favour, and that

01:06:43 Speaker 08: motion is carried. Okay. We do

01:06:46 Speaker 08: not have any delegations this morning,

01:06:48 Speaker 08: and I'm just going to. What

01:06:50 Speaker 08: I'm going to do is I'm

01:06:51 Speaker 08: going to ask momentarily about which

01:06:53 Speaker 08: items may or may not be

01:06:56 Speaker 08: pulled from the consent agenda. We'll

01:06:58 Speaker 08: take it down to that point.

01:06:58 Speaker 08: I will then call a. brief

01:07:02 Speaker 08: break. We do have, we do

01:07:04 Speaker 08: have a scheduled agenda, a scheduled

01:07:07 Speaker 08: lunch at a certain time. It

01:07:09 Speaker 08: is so I'm just being conscious

01:07:12 Speaker 08: of that. So we'll have a

01:07:14 Speaker 08: little bit of an earlier, but

01:07:15 Speaker 08: a shorter break because we will

01:07:16 Speaker 08: actually be calling for lunch prior

01:07:18 Speaker 08: to 12 o'clock. So, with that,

01:07:20 Speaker 08: then I will move on to

01:16:15 Speaker 08: number five, which is a determination

01:16:16 Speaker 08: of items requiring separate discussion. There

01:16:19 Speaker 05: are only three listed in item

01:16:34 Speaker 32: six, six A, B, and C.

01:16:36 Speaker 32: Are there any items that someone

01:16:38 Speaker 32: wishes to pull for further discussion?

01:16:40 Speaker 32: Okay, I'm not seeing any hands

01:16:43 Speaker 32: up. That's excellent. So therefore, it's

01:16:46 Speaker 32: recommended that the following consentage items

01:16:48 Speaker 32: consent items be received, and that

01:16:50 Speaker 32: staff be authorised to take the

01:16:53 Speaker 32: actions necessary to give effect to

01:16:55 Speaker 32: the recommendations in the staff reports,

01:16:57 Speaker 32: and that the correspondence be supported

01:16:59 Speaker 32: or received for information as recommended

01:17:02 Speaker 32: in the consent agenda. May I

01:17:04 Speaker 32: ask for a mover and a

01:17:06 Speaker 32: seconder? Move by. A mover and

01:17:09 Speaker 32: a seconder. Moved by Councillor Body,

01:17:11 Speaker 32: seconded by Councillor Nielsen. It's now

01:17:15 Speaker 32: on the floor for discussion.

01:17:18 Speaker 32: Seeing no hands up, all those

01:17:21 Speaker 32: in favour, and that motion is

01:17:23 Speaker 32: carried. So that will mean that

01:17:25 Speaker 32: after a brief break, if we

01:17:28 Speaker 32: could try to be back by

01:17:29 Speaker 32: eleven ten, that would be wonderful.

01:17:31 Speaker 32: We will pick up at item

01:17:33 Speaker 32: seven a when we return. Thank

01:17:51 Speaker 33: you. All right. If I could

01:17:54 Speaker 33: invite our committee, the whole members,

01:17:55 Speaker 33: back to the horseshoe. Okay, so

01:17:58 Speaker 33: we have our quorum here. So

01:18:00 Speaker 33: we will continue then with item

01:18:05 Speaker 33: seven A, and this is the

01:18:07 Speaker 33: first of our items for discussion.

01:18:09 Speaker 33: It is recommended that report PSRCW

01:18:11 Speaker 33: zero six twenty five be received,

01:18:13 Speaker 33: and that the Dom Construction Limited

01:18:15 Speaker 33: be awarded RFP PS zero four

01:18:18 Speaker 33: twenty five design build for the

01:18:19 Speaker 33: new paramedic service base in Feversham

01:18:22 Speaker 33: at a cost of. two million

01:18:24 Speaker 33: one hundred and fifty-five thousand dollars,

01:18:27 Speaker 33: excluding HST, and that the project

01:18:28 Speaker 33: be funded by Debender as approved

01:18:30 Speaker 33: in the 2025 Paramedic Services Capital

01:18:32 Speaker 33: Budget, and that Council authorise staff

01:18:33 Speaker 33: to proceed with the preparations of

01:18:36 Speaker 33: CCDC fourteen twenty thirteen design-build stipulated

01:18:38 Speaker 33: price contract prior to formal Council

01:18:40 Speaker 33: approval, as per Section twenty six

01:18:42 Speaker 33: point six B of the Procedural

01:18:46 Speaker 33: Bylaw. May ask for a mover.

01:18:47 Speaker 33: Okay, so we've got that moved

01:18:49 Speaker 33: by Councillor Nielsen and seconded by

01:18:51 Speaker 33: Councillor Pringle. It's now on the

01:18:53 Speaker 33: floor for discussion. Welcome, Director McNab.

01:18:55 Speaker 33: Morning, Warden County Council. Happy to

01:18:57 Speaker 33: be here today to talk about

01:18:59 Speaker 33: the. new Feversham base with the

01:19:01 Speaker 33: comprehensive deployment review that we did

01:19:03 Speaker 33: in 2022-2023. That review was to

01:19:06 Speaker 33: address increased call volume across the

01:19:07 Speaker 33: county over the next 10 years,

01:19:09 Speaker 33: and with that, we were balancing

01:19:10 Speaker 33: out urban response times with rural

01:19:12 Speaker 33: response times. You know, at the

01:19:15 Speaker 33: same time addressing increased call volume.

01:19:18 Speaker 33: Call volume is expected to go

01:19:19 Speaker 33: up 68% over 10 years, and

01:19:22 Speaker 33: we need roughly about 40%. We

01:19:25 Speaker 33: need roughly about forty percent in

01:19:27 Speaker 33: resources to match that. So, you

01:19:29 Speaker 33: can see the first cars that

01:19:32 Speaker 33: we added were in One Sun

01:19:34 Speaker 33: and Hanover, where our more urban

01:19:36 Speaker 33: areas are, where large volume of

01:19:37 Speaker 33: the calls are. But part of

01:19:46 Speaker 33: the deployment review was to recommend

01:19:49 Speaker 33: to improve rural response times. And

01:19:51 Speaker 33: so, this is the first base

01:19:51 Speaker 33: we're building in Feversham with approval.

01:19:54 Speaker 33: This area is been an under-serviced

01:19:56 Speaker 33: area, but compared to the other

01:19:59 Speaker 33: areas that we've talked about before

01:20:01 Speaker 33: in the past. I believe, Council

01:20:04 Speaker 33: McQueen. We've been talking this probably

01:20:06 Speaker 33: since about twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen.

01:20:08 Speaker 33: That eventually that that would be

01:20:13 Speaker 33: a place that we would go

01:20:15 Speaker 33: to build a base in that

01:20:17 Speaker 33: southeast corner of the county. That

01:20:19 Speaker 33: that area right now is probably

01:20:20 Speaker 33: I think our closest base to

01:20:22 Speaker 33: the Fiverr Sham area is twenty

01:20:25 Speaker 33: one kilometres up to twenty nine

01:20:29 Speaker 33: and Craig Lea. So this will

01:20:32 Speaker 33: definitely enhance that response into that

01:20:33 Speaker 33: area, and again, that's balancing out

01:20:34 Speaker 33: you know the low call volume.

01:20:37 Speaker 33: You know, a low call volume

01:20:39 Speaker 33: versus a a large area to

01:20:43 Speaker 33: cover. So the the site that

01:20:45 Speaker 33: was chosen was at the old

01:20:47 Speaker 33: sand dune at four nine four

01:20:53 Speaker 33: seven forty, Gray Road two, and

01:20:56 Speaker 33: we are we're at the final

01:21:01 Speaker 33: stages and leave of the land

01:21:03 Speaker 33: transfer now with Gray Highlands to

01:21:07 Speaker 33: the county. So we did a

01:21:12 Speaker 33: design build, a partial design build.

01:21:14 Speaker 33: for mechanical, electrical. We did a

01:21:16 Speaker 33: lot of the work as far

01:21:18 Speaker 33: as architectural ourselves. Aaron Whitney, in

01:21:20 Speaker 33: house, great work that he does.

01:21:22 Speaker 33: And we released the tender on

01:21:24 Speaker 33: August fifteenth, and we had the

01:21:25 Speaker 33: results back on September fifteenth. There

01:21:27 Speaker 33: was only one bidder, was Dom

01:21:30 Speaker 33: Construction, and they they met all

01:21:32 Speaker 33: the requirements of the bid. Our

01:21:34 Speaker 33: budget for this project was one

01:21:35 Speaker 33: point six million. The bid cost

01:21:37 Speaker 33: from Dom. came in over budget,

01:21:39 Speaker 33: came in at two million one

01:21:43 Speaker 33: hundred fifty-five thousand, or two million

01:21:45 Speaker 33: one hundred ninety-two thousand with HST.

01:21:46 Speaker 33: We're predicting the professional fees to

01:21:51 Speaker 33: be around two hundred thousand dollars,

01:21:52 Speaker 33: so that makes the total cost

01:21:55 Speaker 33: of the project two million three

01:21:58 Speaker 33: hundred ninety-two thousand, which is an

01:21:59 Speaker 33: overage of seven hundred eighty-six thousand

01:22:01 Speaker 33: one hundred dollars. This project will

01:22:03 Speaker 33: not be completed in twenty twenty-five,

01:22:05 Speaker 33: but if it's approved. it'll be

01:22:08 Speaker 33: moved over to the 2026 capital

01:22:09 Speaker 33: budget. So this project is funded

01:22:15 Speaker 33: completely from dementia. The overage will

01:22:18 Speaker 33: result in a dementia payment going

01:22:19 Speaker 33: from 114,000 to 169,800, which is

01:22:20 Speaker 33: an increase of 55,800. The budgets

01:22:22 Speaker 33: proposed for Aitken, Thornbury, and Cobble

01:22:24 Speaker 33: Beach will also be up. Will

01:22:26 Speaker 33: also be updated to match these

01:22:29 Speaker 33: new numbers, thinking that this may

01:22:31 Speaker 33: be the realistic cost going forward

01:22:33 Speaker 33: for these additional bases. And I

01:22:34 Speaker 33: would like to mention also, and

01:22:36 Speaker 33: we talked about that briefly before,

01:22:44 Speaker 33: but now more formal, we'll bring

01:22:46 Speaker 33: a report forward next week, or

01:22:49 Speaker 33: sorry, next council, that the Dundalk

01:22:51 Speaker 33: base we will have to build

01:22:52 Speaker 33: one there because the fire department

01:22:55 Speaker 33: needs the space, and we'll have

01:22:57 Speaker 33: to find a new location for

01:22:59 Speaker 33: for the Dundalk base. So these.

01:23:00 Speaker 33: So this part of these increases

01:23:01 Speaker 33: are offset by the grant around

01:23:03 Speaker 33: interest and for capital assets from

01:23:07 Speaker 33: the government. When you look at

01:23:09 Speaker 33: our annual increase to the Comprehensive

01:23:10 Speaker 33: Deployment Plan, that's where we pay

01:23:13 Speaker 33: the four hundred ten thousand dollars

01:23:14 Speaker 33: a year. When we build in

01:23:17 Speaker 33: these extra costs to the bases,

01:23:19 Speaker 33: that increase goes up twenty one

01:23:20 Speaker 33: thousand dollars one hundred to four

01:23:21 Speaker 33: hundred thirty one thousand dollars per

01:23:22 Speaker 33: year. So this just chart just

01:23:34 Speaker 34: shows the overage. Now we have

01:23:35 Speaker 34: talked with Dom. We have the

01:23:37 Speaker 10: ability to negotiate because there was

01:23:39 Speaker 10: only one bidder. And not included

01:23:40 Speaker 10: in this, we feel that we

01:23:46 Speaker 10: can find approximately two hundred thousand

01:23:48 Speaker 21: dollars in savings. Just some different

01:23:51 Speaker 21: things that Dom suggests that we

01:23:53 Speaker 21: can do, and we will continue

01:23:55 Speaker 21: to look for other cost savings

01:23:59 Speaker 21: as well as we work through

01:24:01 Speaker 21: the project if this is approved.

01:24:04 Speaker 21: The base is being built to

01:24:06 Speaker 21: net zero, and it does meet

01:24:09 Speaker 21: the requirements of the county to

01:24:12 Speaker 21: continue to build in these net

01:24:17 Speaker 33: zero. If we look at Durham,

01:24:19 Speaker 33: Durham, if we add solar there,

01:24:21 Speaker 33: and be the same with Feversham,

01:24:23 Speaker 33: it would be a net zero

01:24:26 Speaker 33: building. At this time, we don't

01:24:28 Speaker 33: have any additional funding for the

01:24:29 Speaker 33: solar. So this is what the

01:24:32 Speaker 33: base will look like, and. we

01:24:34 Speaker 33: are going to be building again

01:24:36 Speaker 33: with approval, these same basis. So

01:24:41 Speaker 33: hopefully that will save costs down

01:24:43 Speaker 33: the road. It's built for having

01:24:44 Speaker 33: two vehicles and the crew area

01:24:46 Speaker 33: for the ones that were able

01:24:48 Speaker 33: to make it to Durham will

01:24:49 Speaker 33: be similar to what the crew

01:24:50 Speaker 33: area is across the county. Questions.

01:24:52 Speaker 33: Okay, thank you very much for

01:24:53 Speaker 33: that introduction, and we'll put it

01:24:55 Speaker 33: out. to committee. The whole members

01:24:59 Speaker 33: for questions. We'll begin with Councillor

01:25:00 Speaker 33: McKay. Yes, thank you, Kevin. Thank

01:25:06 Speaker 35: you, Warden. I attended the open

01:25:07 Speaker 35: house in Durham, and it was

01:25:09 Speaker 35: stated that it is the state

01:25:14 Speaker 35: of the art. Plus, it was

01:25:18 Speaker 36: the main headquarters for supplies. So,

01:25:19 Speaker 36: these new ones that are being

01:25:20 Speaker 36: built are they on a smaller

01:25:22 Speaker 36: dimension? compared to the one in

01:25:24 Speaker 36: Durham, or would you have another

01:25:26 Speaker 36: one somewhere for main supply station

01:25:27 Speaker 36: too? Yeah, the one in Durham

01:25:28 Speaker 36: was meant to house the our

01:25:29 Speaker 36: logistics and supplies for the county

01:25:31 Speaker 36: as well as our sales supervisor.

01:25:32 Speaker 36: So this that base, that similar

01:25:33 Speaker 36: design, that layout, we will be

01:25:35 Speaker 36: cutting roughly a third of all

01:25:37 Speaker 36: these new bases, and that's roughly

01:25:39 Speaker 36: that extra portion that was meant.

01:25:40 Speaker 36: for maintenance and logistics—that's the

01:25:43 Speaker 36: third. We did change the orientation

01:25:45 Speaker 36: of the garage, so it's a

01:25:49 Speaker 36: true drive-through. So you're not always

01:25:54 Speaker 36: backing in. That was a suggestion

01:25:57 Speaker 36: from staff. It is—you know—you have

01:26:00 Speaker 36: this double-stack base, and you're always

01:26:03 Speaker 36: trying to move in front of

01:26:05 Speaker 36: another vehicle back in. This way,

01:26:06 Speaker 36: it's a true drive-through. So that's

01:26:08 Speaker 36: about the only other difference as

01:26:09 Speaker 36: well. Okay, thank you. I'll look

01:26:12 Speaker 36: around the room. We'll go to

01:26:14 Speaker 36: Councillor Gregg next. Thank you. My

01:26:17 Speaker 36: first question is: Can you expand

01:26:20 Speaker 36: upon what are the components that

01:26:22 Speaker 36: make up the $200,000 in discretionary

01:26:23 Speaker 36: cutbacks? I don't have the list

01:26:29 Speaker 36: in front of me, but I

01:26:31 Speaker 36: can go from memory if that's

01:26:35 Speaker 26: okay. Likely best. There was some

01:26:36 Speaker 26: contingency that we were able to

01:26:38 Speaker 26: reduce based upon our knowledge of

01:26:42 Speaker 26: what Durham's coming at. I wish

01:26:45 Speaker 26: I had the numbers to say

01:26:48 Speaker 26: today, but when we did the

01:26:52 Speaker 26: planning for Durham, I think. we

01:26:54 Speaker 26: did it really well, and we

01:26:56 Speaker 26: were able. We didn't have to

01:27:00 Speaker 26: use that contingency as much as

01:27:03 Speaker 26: what we thought. There's some civil

01:27:05 Speaker 26: work, and we're even looking at

01:27:09 Speaker 26: more now as far as the

01:27:11 Speaker 26: engineering around stormwater management. And we've

01:27:14 Speaker 26: we don't believe that we'll need

01:27:16 Speaker 26: the curbing. We've reduced concrete, and

01:27:21 Speaker 26: we'll change to to asphalt. There

01:27:23 Speaker 26: is reduced the flagpole, reduced the

01:27:25 Speaker 26: fence. We. we talked about the

01:27:28 Speaker 26: building itself about size and in

01:27:31 Speaker 26: talking with Dom, it's like you

01:27:33 Speaker 26: can obviously cut back size, they'll

01:27:34 Speaker 26: cut back some costs, but really

01:27:36 Speaker 26: because you need those major components,

01:27:40 Speaker 26: doesn't really change a lot. So

01:27:44 Speaker 26: we we we went we went

01:27:47 Speaker 26: down that road, but yeah, we

01:27:48 Speaker 26: tried tried to balance those best

01:27:51 Speaker 26: we could. Again, these these those

01:27:53 Speaker 26: savings are not part of that

01:27:56 Speaker 26: total right now. Hopefully that will.

01:27:59 Speaker 26: Thanks for that. So most of

01:28:03 Speaker 26: the savings are outside of the

01:28:05 Speaker 26: building envelope, effectively, from what I'm

01:28:07 Speaker 26: hearing, and I don't. I've got

01:28:11 Speaker 26: them wrote down here. I do

01:28:12 Speaker 26: have significant concerns here with, um,

01:28:16 Speaker 26: before percent professional fees. This is

01:28:19 Speaker 26: something that's 34% over budget with

01:28:22 Speaker 26: professional fees, 49% over budget, and

01:28:24 Speaker 26: it would be more palatable to

01:28:27 Speaker 26: me if there was. three or

01:28:30 Speaker 26: four bidders, but I am not

01:28:35 Speaker 26: comfortable in approving issuing a tender

01:28:37 Speaker 26: for for this project when we're

01:28:39 Speaker 26: effectively forty nine percent over budget.

01:28:41 Speaker 26: We've got some room for cutbacks,

01:28:45 Speaker 26: but you know thirty four percent

01:28:46 Speaker 26: before professional fees, thirty four percent

01:28:48 Speaker 26: with one tender. I think we

01:28:51 Speaker 26: need to take another run at

01:28:52 Speaker 26: this in the. future, and see

01:28:54 Speaker 26: what type of competition in the

01:28:56 Speaker 26: marketplace. I I think Kevin, you

01:29:02 Speaker 26: and your team internally are doing

01:29:03 Speaker 26: a great job of looking at

01:29:05 Speaker 26: where can we shave off some

01:29:11 Speaker 37: savings. And we're as Councillor McKay

01:29:14 Speaker 37: indicated, there is slightly reduced size

01:29:16 Speaker 37: from Durham. These bases going forward

01:29:19 Speaker 36: because it is a centralized place

01:29:20 Speaker 36: in Durham. But there's there's an

01:29:23 Speaker 36: element here that I'm concerned is.

01:29:24 Speaker 36: just because it's debenture, we should

01:29:27 Speaker 36: approve it, but it's it's inflated

01:29:29 Speaker 36: perhaps because there's just not competition

01:29:30 Speaker 36: right now that that was bidding.

01:29:37 Speaker 36: Any time that and it was

01:29:46 Speaker 36: Deputy Warden Mill mentioned earlier, you

01:29:51 Speaker 38: know, as it's not a sole

01:29:56 Speaker 38: source, but he had asked for

01:29:58 Speaker 38: convincing information on a sole sourcing

01:30:04 Speaker 38: item. One one one bidder is.

01:30:06 Speaker 38: also somewhat concerning too. It's it's

01:30:08 Speaker 38: always great to see competition that's

01:30:10 Speaker 38: transparently placed in front of council

01:30:15 Speaker 38: and the public. So at this

01:30:16 Speaker 38: time, I my biggest concern is

01:30:18 Speaker 38: is that there is one bidder.

01:30:20 Speaker 38: They do great work. However, I

01:30:21 Speaker 38: think we should go back out

01:30:28 Speaker 38: in the future and see what

01:30:30 Speaker 10: kind of engagement we do get

01:30:32 Speaker 10: from the from the public sector.

01:30:33 Speaker 10: or from the private sector, again,

01:30:34 Speaker 10: in terms of interest and and

01:30:36 Speaker 10: trying to shave down the the

01:30:37 Speaker 10: overall overall cost of the project.

01:30:40 Speaker 10: Okay, Director Mcnabb, did you want

01:30:43 Speaker 26: to comment, or any Director Spicer

01:30:45 Speaker 26: or anyone else? The budgeted amount

01:30:48 Speaker 26: of 1.6 was a calculation that

01:30:50 Speaker 26: we utilised by looking at other

01:30:52 Speaker 26: builds and price per square foot,

01:30:55 Speaker 26: and that. And that—that's one thing

01:30:56 Speaker 26: that maybe I take responsibility for—is

01:30:58 Speaker 26: that maybe that was lower than

01:30:59 Speaker 26: what we probably should have begun

01:31:00 Speaker 26: with. That's one thing about that,

01:31:02 Speaker 26: and that may be some little

01:31:03 Speaker 26: discrepancy in the prices. I'll just

01:31:05 Speaker 26: let Director Spicer come to the

01:31:08 Speaker 26: lectern. Thank you, Madam Warden. I

01:31:12 Speaker 26: I can understand and appreciate Councillor

01:31:14 Speaker 10: Greg's point as far as having

01:31:16 Speaker 10: one bid. It was publicly advertised,

01:31:18 Speaker 10: and we can't control who bids

01:31:19 Speaker 10: or who doesn't. My concern would

01:31:23 Speaker 10: be we've now got a a

01:31:24 Speaker 10: bid that has been publicly disclosed.

01:31:26 Speaker 10: You would have to wait for

01:31:28 Speaker 23: some period of time. before you

01:31:30 Speaker 23: would go back out because I'd

01:31:31 Speaker 23: be concerned that somebody would say

01:31:32 Speaker 23: that now we're bid shopping, and

01:31:33 Speaker 23: we've disclosed Dom's bid. Okay, thank

01:31:36 Speaker 23: you very much. There's a. I'll

01:31:38 Speaker 23: take that as a follow. I'm

01:31:39 Speaker 23: going to take a follow up

01:31:41 Speaker 23: from Councillor Greg on the same

01:31:43 Speaker 23: topic, and then I'm going to

01:31:44 Speaker 23: go over to Councillor McQueen next.

01:31:45 Speaker 23: And thank you. And I just

01:31:48 Speaker 23: want to be. You don't need

01:31:51 Speaker 23: to take response. You don't need

01:31:53 Speaker 23: to take responsibility at all, because

01:31:56 Speaker 23: it's nothing to to your work

01:31:58 Speaker 23: in preparing the document. I'm just

01:32:02 Speaker 23: commenting on the fact that you

01:32:04 Speaker 23: don't have anything that's coming in

01:32:07 Speaker 23: to be able compare the one

01:32:09 Speaker 23: bid to. So I just, when

01:32:10 Speaker 23: you said I'll take responsibility for

01:32:11 Speaker 23: that, I thought, no, you don't

01:32:13 Speaker 23: have to take responsibility for anything

01:32:14 Speaker 23: because there is no fault to

01:32:16 Speaker 23: be found with with anyone here.

01:32:17 Speaker 23: It's just the discomfort with with

01:32:20 Speaker 23: not having comparables. So, thanks, Kevin.

01:32:24 Speaker 23: Thank you. and I—I just wanted—I

01:32:26 Speaker 23: already had in the queue. Actually,

01:32:43 Speaker 05: virtually, Councillor Bordenyau is going to

01:32:44 Speaker 33: speak first, and then I'll go

01:32:46 Speaker 33: to Councillor McQueen. Thank you, Madam

01:32:48 Speaker 33: Warden, through you to County Council.

01:32:50 Speaker 33: Good morning again. I have less

01:32:52 Speaker 33: less concerns about the one bid

01:32:54 Speaker 33: only because they don't at the

01:32:56 Speaker 33: time when they're bidding, they don't

01:32:58 Speaker 33: know how many bids are going

01:33:05 Speaker 33: to be coming in. So there

01:33:07 Speaker 33: could be ten. The the the

01:33:10 Speaker 33: winning proponent does not know that.

01:33:11 Speaker 33: So that that's less of a

01:33:12 Speaker 23: concern to me. The one concern,

01:33:14 Speaker 23: if any. delay that we do,

01:33:18 Speaker 23: we know that construction costs more

01:33:20 Speaker 23: money. So if we delay any

01:33:21 Speaker 23: further, we've seen time and time

01:33:23 Speaker 23: again with with builds, with roads,

01:33:27 Speaker 39: each month, each quarter, each year

01:33:28 Speaker 39: will exponentially add to the cost

01:33:33 Speaker 39: of the same thing. My question

01:33:37 Speaker 39: is, I'm just reading. You're asking

01:33:39 Speaker 38: council for two million one hundred

01:33:42 Speaker 38: fifty-five thousand. The expected cost is

01:33:45 Speaker 38: two three nine two nine hundred.

01:33:46 Speaker 38: It's saying there will be a

01:33:50 Speaker 38: savings. of two hundred dollars, but

01:33:52 Speaker 38: that's not reflected in the chart.

01:33:53 Speaker 38: So, just for clarity purposes, is

01:33:57 Speaker 38: that the reason why the committee

01:34:01 Speaker 38: is being asked for two million

01:34:04 Speaker 38: one hundred fifty-five thousand as opposed

01:34:07 Speaker 38: to two three nine two nine

01:34:09 Speaker 38: hundred? Just for clarity purposes, through

01:34:10 Speaker 38: the the warden. Yeah. Yeah. Today,

01:34:12 Speaker 38: the award is to Dom for

01:34:14 Speaker 38: two million one hundred ninety-two thousand.

01:34:21 Speaker 38: But also bringing forward that the

01:34:22 Speaker 38: project we're expecting to be professional

01:34:25 Speaker 38: fees two hundred thousand. Again, that

01:34:28 Speaker 07: doesn't include any savings that we

01:34:29 Speaker 07: can work out with Dom. So

01:34:33 Speaker 07: the the award today is for

01:34:36 Speaker 07: Dom of two million one hundred

01:34:39 Speaker 07: ninety-two thousand. Okay. Is there any

01:34:40 Speaker 07: follow up to that? Councillor Bourneau.

01:34:43 Speaker 07: Yes, Madam Ward. Just so, just

01:34:46 Speaker 07: as a follow up. So, but

01:34:47 Speaker 07: we're being asked for two million

01:34:48 Speaker 07: one hundred and fifty five thousand

01:34:49 Speaker 07: dollars. So, where where would the

01:34:50 Speaker 07: reflection of the savings be at

01:34:52 Speaker 07: the end of the day, if

01:34:54 Speaker 07: there is any of the two

01:34:56 Speaker 07: hundred thousand? Okay, we'll just give

01:34:58 Speaker 07: a moment for Director Spicer and

01:34:59 Speaker 07: Director McNaught to come forward with

01:35:01 Speaker 07: a response to that. Through you,

01:35:03 Speaker 07: Madam Warden, to respond to Councillor

01:35:06 Speaker 07: Bourdonneau's question, what you're being asked

01:35:07 Speaker 07: for is to approve the award

01:35:10 Speaker 07: of two million one hundred and

01:35:11 Speaker 07: fifty-five thousand. And so, the the

01:35:12 Speaker 07: chart that you've seen on page

01:35:13 Speaker 07: three of the report, the expected

01:35:18 Speaker 07: costs include the non-rebatable HST, and

01:35:19 Speaker 07: if we find the savings that

01:35:21 Speaker 07: Director McNab has identified. Councillor McNab

01:35:24 Speaker 07: has identified those would be in

01:35:26 Speaker 07: the form of negative change orders

01:35:27 Speaker 07: that would reduce the total value

01:35:30 Speaker 07: of the contract. But the award

01:35:32 Speaker 07: today would be the two million

01:35:33 Speaker 07: one hundred fifty-five thousand, excluding HST.

01:35:35 Speaker 07: Okay. Thank you. Next, we'll go

01:35:36 Speaker 07: to Councillor McQueen. Thank you, Madam

01:35:39 Speaker 07: Warden. A couple things. Start off

01:35:40 Speaker 07: with County Council is only paying

01:35:43 Speaker 07: two dollars for the land. Same.

01:35:45 Speaker 07: So I think just going back

01:35:47 Speaker 07: to comes from Berganov with regards

01:35:49 Speaker 07: to process. I think we have

01:35:50 Speaker 07: to protect our process because I

01:35:51 Speaker 07: think in fairness to dome construction,

01:35:53 Speaker 07: which has been in business for

01:35:55 Speaker 07: a long time, they've been doing

01:35:59 Speaker 07: a lot of municipal buildings, a

01:36:01 Speaker 07: lot of buildings. So I don't

01:36:02 Speaker 07: think there's any debate of their

01:36:03 Speaker 07: quality of work. You know, they

01:36:06 Speaker 07: had no indication or knowledge that

01:36:07 Speaker 07: they're they only sold bitter until

01:36:08 Speaker 07: so it comes out. So I

01:36:09 Speaker 07: don't think there's any fault of

01:36:11 Speaker 07: anybody there. Obviously. it's it's unfortunate

01:36:14 Speaker 07: that it's higher than what was

01:36:16 Speaker 07: budgeted, but I think we look

01:36:17 Speaker 07: at last couple years, construction costs

01:36:19 Speaker 07: are continuing to rise, and everything

01:36:20 Speaker 07: else. You know, just go to

01:36:22 Speaker 07: Home Depot and buy something you

01:36:24 Speaker 07: bought two years ago. Everything's out.

01:36:25 Speaker 07: The other thing I want to

01:36:26 Speaker 07: say is yes, what Kevin made

01:36:28 Speaker 07: a comment was this area, you

01:36:30 Speaker 07: know, has been an underserviced area,

01:36:33 Speaker 07: and I did raise it, and

01:36:35 Speaker 07: then we had we had a.

01:36:38 Speaker 07: company that did the study and

01:36:40 Speaker 07: showed improved that it was an

01:36:42 Speaker 07: underserved area. I know a number

01:36:43 Speaker 07: of years back there was a

01:36:45 Speaker 07: young man that was badly injured,

01:36:47 Speaker 07: and I know for the area

01:36:50 Speaker 07: with regards to either Thornbury, Markville,

01:36:52 Speaker 07: or Dundalk, time is of the

01:36:54 Speaker 07: essence when when somebody is seriously

01:36:57 Speaker 07: injured, and unfortunately he lost his

01:37:04 Speaker 07: life. And not saying is any

01:37:05 Speaker 07: fault of anybody, but there was

01:37:07 Speaker 07: a bit of a delay getting

01:37:08 Speaker 07: there, just getting to serve to

01:37:10 Speaker 07: serve that individual. And I remember

01:37:12 Speaker 36: the. Conversation about that with an

01:37:14 Speaker 36: individual, and you know, it's too

01:37:16 Speaker 36: bad. But obviously, the study showed

01:37:17 Speaker 36: that it was an underserved area,

01:37:25 Speaker 36: and traffic and everything in that

01:37:26 Speaker 36: area is growing. You know, with

01:37:28 Speaker 36: the growth in Blue Mountains and

01:37:30 Speaker 36: everything else, Gray Road Two, Thirty

01:37:31 Speaker 36: One, Gray Road Four, One Twenty

01:37:35 Speaker 36: Four. You know, it's just the

01:37:38 Speaker 36: traffic patterns have changed, and it's

01:37:40 Speaker 36: just more and more people that's

01:37:42 Speaker 36: travelling through the area. So, I

01:37:46 Speaker 40: think the justification is there. It's

01:37:47 Speaker 40: just unfortunate. It's a little higher

01:37:50 Speaker 40: than we are, but I I

01:37:51 Speaker 40: don't think we can wait. I

01:37:54 Speaker 40: think we need to move. forward.

01:37:57 Speaker 40: The other comment I do have

01:38:01 Speaker 40: for you, Kevin, is if there

01:38:04 Speaker 40: is a need, like just like

01:38:05 Speaker 40: the Dundalk building where they they

01:38:09 Speaker 40: need it for expanding their fire

01:38:11 Speaker 40: hall, can this building be added

01:38:12 Speaker 40: to an extra bay? Is it

01:38:15 Speaker 40: designed that way? Is there a

01:38:16 Speaker 40: possibility that somewhere down the future,

01:38:17 Speaker 40: just like the situation you you

01:38:19 Speaker 40: mentioned in in Dundalk, it is.

01:38:21 Speaker 40: Is I guess anything can be

01:38:23 Speaker 40: added to, but is there any

01:38:25 Speaker 40: any incorporation of that? ever being

01:38:27 Speaker 40: incorporated into this building. I also

01:38:29 Speaker 40: don't have the information. I can

01:38:30 Speaker 40: answer that. I would think you

01:38:32 Speaker 40: could be able to add beside

01:38:34 Speaker 40: it, but it also needs on

01:38:36 Speaker 40: size of land and those type

01:38:39 Speaker 40: of things. But I also don't

01:38:47 Speaker 40: have enough expertise enough to ask.

01:38:49 Speaker 33: Aaron would probably the best person

01:38:50 Speaker 33: to ask. I only asked it

01:38:52 Speaker 33: because somebody asked me to ask

01:38:53 Speaker 33: that question because that was a

01:38:56 Speaker 33: thought that somebody made to me,

01:38:58 Speaker 33: so I was asking the question

01:39:00 Speaker 33: on that part. Okay, thank you.

01:39:02 Speaker 33: So, as we focus in on

01:39:03 Speaker 33: our discussion on the question that's

01:39:04 Speaker 33: at hand here, we'll go to

01:39:06 Speaker 33: the Deputy Warden next. Thank you,

01:39:08 Speaker 33: Madam Warden, and thank you, Kevin,

01:39:10 Speaker 33: for the report. In there, you

01:39:12 Speaker 33: mentioned that this building and the

01:39:14 Speaker 33: Durham one, and indeed. And the

01:39:15 Speaker 33: Durham one, indeed, as well, will

01:39:16 Speaker 33: be net zero ready. I'm wondering

01:39:19 Speaker 33: how much that cost adds to

01:39:20 Speaker 33: the bill, because I can appreciate

01:39:26 Speaker 33: that we want to reduce our

01:39:29 Speaker 08: energy consumption. And the thought is,

01:39:30 Speaker 08: we could put solar panels on

01:39:33 Speaker 08: at a future date. But I

01:39:34 Speaker 08: think the reality is, most builds

01:39:38 Speaker 08: don't have that done. You either

01:39:39 Speaker 08: put them on when you're building

01:39:42 Speaker 08: the thing, or it doesn't happen.

01:39:43 Speaker 08: It's like adding. bays to it

01:39:45 Speaker 08: later; not likely going to happen.

01:39:50 Speaker 08: And as time goes on, it

01:39:53 Speaker 08: becomes less cost efficient to add

01:39:55 Speaker 08: new stuff to an old building.

01:39:57 Speaker 08: So I'm just wondering: is there

01:40:00 Speaker 08: a potential if we're not going

01:40:01 Speaker 08: to put the panels on now,

01:40:05 Speaker 08: would there be some savings in

01:40:05 Speaker 08: not allowing the building to do

01:40:08 Speaker 08: that in the near future? Please.

01:40:10 Speaker 08: Yes, that is something we could

01:40:11 Speaker 08: look at. One thing that we

01:40:17 Speaker 08: were wanting to do, and we're

01:40:18 Speaker 33: still working through, is looking for

01:40:20 Speaker 33: grants to for these net zero

01:40:22 Speaker 33: initiatives. With that, would cover the

01:40:25 Speaker 33: cost. Solar for Durham, I believe,

01:40:27 Speaker 33: was two hundred twenty five thousand.

01:40:28 Speaker 33: That you know we'd be able

01:40:30 Speaker 33: to get a grant. Hopefully, let

01:40:31 Speaker 33: someday that working through that work

01:40:33 Speaker 33: to be able to get to

01:40:34 Speaker 33: get to a net zero. But

01:40:36 Speaker 33: is it something that could be

01:40:38 Speaker 33: taken out? We could. Like I

01:40:41 Speaker 33: think that's something we look at.

01:40:42 Speaker 33: Things like EV chargers and I

01:40:44 Speaker 33: guess you look at heat pumps

01:40:48 Speaker 33: and stuff like that, and types

01:40:49 Speaker 33: of windows and wall thickness. Okay,

01:40:51 Speaker 33: thank you. Looking around the room,

01:40:54 Speaker 33: I don't see any further hands

01:40:57 Speaker 33: up nor online. Okay, I think

01:40:59 Speaker 33: we're ready. Call that question. Then

01:41:02 Speaker 33: all those in favour? Okay, and

01:41:03 Speaker 33: that motion is carried. Thank you.

01:41:05 Speaker 33: All right. So Director McNab, don't

01:41:08 Speaker 33: go far. We'll have a look

01:41:11 Speaker 33: at number seven B here. It's

01:41:14 Speaker 33: recommended that report PSRCW 0725, being

01:41:15 Speaker 33: a report on additional funding to

01:41:18 Speaker 33: support SOS and extended services, be

01:41:20 Speaker 33: received, and that the funds be

01:41:21 Speaker 33: flowed to partner agencies as outlined

01:41:23 Speaker 33: in the funding agreement that ends

01:41:26 Speaker 33: March 31st, 2026. May I ask

01:41:28 Speaker 33: for a mover and a seconder?

01:41:29 Speaker 33: Moved by Councillor Dicker, seconded by

01:41:30 Speaker 33: the Deputy Warden. It's now on

01:41:35 Speaker 33: the floor for discussion. And Director

01:41:37 Speaker 33: McNab, over to you. Okay, happy

01:41:44 Speaker 33: to be here to talk about

01:41:46 Speaker 33: this this morning. You remember earlier

01:41:51 Speaker 33: this year we were approved for

01:41:52 Speaker 33: funding to increase our response to

01:41:53 Speaker 33: the opioid crisis, and we were

01:41:56 Speaker 33: able to move our supportive outreach

01:42:02 Speaker 26: services to seven days a week.

01:42:05 Speaker 26: Which we're still, you know, working

01:42:05 Speaker 26: through that and getting the staffing

01:42:07 Speaker 26: up to date to do that,

01:42:11 Speaker 26: but also increasing the resources to

01:42:12 Speaker 26: be able to respond to that

01:42:13 Speaker 26: emergency. Part of the work that

01:42:17 Speaker 26: we're doing, we were asked about.

01:42:20 Speaker 26: doing additional work again to target,

01:42:22 Speaker 26: you know, the overdose crisis. So

01:42:24 Speaker 26: we did put in for additional

01:42:27 Speaker 26: funding on top of what we've

01:42:28 Speaker 26: already received. This would to further

01:42:30 Speaker 26: support initiatives within the county. What

01:42:33 Speaker 26: it will do is support a

01:42:34 Speaker 26: navigator programme in in the city

01:42:36 Speaker 26: of Owen Sound to have two

01:42:37 Speaker 26: navigators on seven days a week

01:42:39 Speaker 26: to support people. It also is

01:42:40 Speaker 26: to support treatments space at Safe

01:42:43 Speaker 26: and Sound. for SOS, it'll give

01:42:47 Speaker 26: us ability to have some administrative

01:42:49 Speaker 26: support for the team. The team's

01:42:51 Speaker 26: growing to be able to dedicate

01:42:58 Speaker 26: it, as opposed to being off

01:43:00 Speaker 26: the side of someone's desk, and

01:43:01 Speaker 26: also be able to increase the

01:43:04 Speaker 26: number of amount of basic needs

01:43:06 Speaker 33: to people to be able to

01:43:08 Speaker 33: start doing that. So this is

01:43:09 Speaker 33: 100% funded through this funding grant,

01:43:11 Speaker 33: and it will go until March

01:43:12 Speaker 33: 31st, 2026. Okay, thank you very

01:43:15 Speaker 33: much. So we do have it

01:43:17 Speaker 33: out open for discussion. Any discussion?

01:43:19 Speaker 33: Okay, so we're going to begin

01:43:19 Speaker 33: with Councillor Greg, then go to

01:43:21 Speaker 33: Councillor Eccles. Thank you. Through the

01:43:22 Speaker 33: Warden, two key questions, Kevin. Some

01:43:25 Speaker 33: of the I'm certainly aware within

01:43:27 Speaker 33: our own sound of some of

01:43:29 Speaker 33: the concerns of the business community

01:43:31 Speaker 33: in terms of individual. In terms

01:43:33 Speaker 33: of individuals, particularly at the start

01:43:35 Speaker 33: of the day, in front of

01:43:37 Speaker 33: businesses and the social navigators here

01:43:39 Speaker 33: spoken to in in the report,

01:43:40 Speaker 33: will support that. Could you expand

01:43:42 Speaker 33: more so on terms of what

01:43:43 Speaker 33: that what their job would look

01:43:44 Speaker 33: like beyond that? Because upfront, that's

01:43:45 Speaker 33: the most familiarity is to the

01:43:47 Speaker 33: pressing need is businesses to like

01:43:50 Speaker 33: we need support first thing in

01:43:52 Speaker 33: the morning to be able to

01:43:54 Speaker 33: to open our doors. Once the

01:43:56 Speaker 33: day starts, the day is different

01:43:58 Speaker 33: than first thing in the morning.

01:44:02 Speaker 33: And also, could you expand on

01:44:04 Speaker 33: what ninety-four thousand dollars in materials,

01:44:07 Speaker 33: supplies, equipment looks like? What is

01:44:12 Speaker 33: that? Because this is just till

01:44:17 Speaker 33: March, so I guess effectively five

01:44:19 Speaker 33: five months. So, thanks. Yes. So

01:44:21 Speaker 33: the navigators, the the main role

01:44:22 Speaker 33: of that is to help the

01:44:25 Speaker 33: people that are that are unhoused,

01:44:27 Speaker 33: community members that. need support in

01:44:28 Speaker 33: the community, so they would be

01:44:30 Speaker 33: working with them not just in

01:44:33 Speaker 33: the morning but all day long

01:44:34 Speaker 33: to be able to connect them

01:44:36 Speaker 33: to supports and to you know

01:44:38 Speaker 33: meet their needs. Also, the big

01:44:50 Speaker 41: thing would be doing referrals, but

01:44:51 Speaker 26: they could do a number of

01:44:52 Speaker 26: different things. They can do sharps

01:44:54 Speaker 26: cleanup. They can, if there was

01:44:55 Speaker 26: items left, they can work with

01:44:58 Speaker 26: that. Again, the the big thing

01:45:00 Speaker 26: is helping those community members, which

01:45:02 Speaker 26: ultimately you help them. That helps

01:45:03 Speaker 26: everybody, and so that's that's the

01:45:06 Speaker 26: main plan of this. this is

01:45:10 Speaker 26: something that's been proposed by at

01:45:14 Speaker 26: least two agencies before. It's more

01:45:16 Speaker 26: like it's a trial to see

01:45:18 Speaker 26: how it goes. So I think

01:45:20 Speaker 26: it's a good opportunity to have

01:45:22 Speaker 26: funding to be able to do

01:45:23 Speaker 26: that and see what those outcomes

01:45:26 Speaker 26: are like from it. The basic

01:45:29 Speaker 26: needs it could be from clothes.

01:45:31 Speaker 26: Right, we're getting waterproof boots. We've

01:45:33 Speaker 26: seen a lot of medical concerns

01:45:34 Speaker 26: around wet feet with people that

01:45:37 Speaker 26: live outside, but they don't have

01:45:38 Speaker 26: waterproof boots. Significant money around that.

01:45:44 Speaker 26: Coats, food. There are some. you

01:45:48 Speaker 26: know, us as far as like

01:45:52 Speaker 26: there's supplies. In that is, there's

01:45:53 Speaker 42: a food part of that. There's

01:45:55 Speaker 42: tents, sleeping bags, for people that

01:46:00 Speaker 42: are living outside to be able

01:46:02 Speaker 42: to do that. So yeah, there's

01:46:05 Speaker 42: a number of items. A whole

01:46:07 Speaker 42: list, and we have to spend

01:46:09 Speaker 42: it by then, and we'll do

01:46:11 Speaker 42: our best to distribute it. But

01:46:13 Speaker 42: you know, obviously, we will. ensure

01:46:18 Speaker 42: it goes. You know, it means

01:46:21 Speaker 42: I had it by March, but

01:46:24 Speaker 42: we'll have it, and it'll ultimately

01:46:27 Speaker 42: be able to be carried on.

01:46:30 Speaker 42: On. Well, sorry. Okay, thank you

01:46:34 Speaker 42: for expanding on that, Kevin. I'm

01:46:39 Speaker 42: glad to hear about the additional

01:46:40 Speaker 42: help in the community in terms

01:46:42 Speaker 42: of just clean up. Just a

01:46:44 Speaker 42: week ago, Saturday, I was through

01:46:47 Speaker 42: the. Julie MacArthur Rec Centre, and

01:46:51 Speaker 42: there's individuals doing drugs in the

01:46:55 Speaker 42: community at the skateboard park. That's

01:46:57 Speaker 42: not a very welcoming scene for

01:47:01 Speaker 42: people that want to have fun

01:47:06 Speaker 42: outdoors through in great weather at

01:47:11 Speaker 42: the skateboard park. And it's a

01:47:14 Speaker 42: it's been a certainly a drain,

01:47:16 Speaker 42: a huge drain on city staff

01:47:20 Speaker 42: for for several years as they

01:47:22 Speaker 42: try to respond to these ongoing

01:47:25 Speaker 42: items 24 hours a day, and

01:47:28 Speaker 42: and that's. an instance that just

01:47:32 Speaker 42: shines light on what kind of

01:47:35 Speaker 42: challenges exist in the community from

01:47:36 Speaker 42: from some of the behaviours there.

01:47:40 Speaker 42: So thanks. Good to hear that

01:47:45 Speaker 42: kind of support is also something

01:47:46 Speaker 42: that this this will complement. Thanks.

01:47:49 Speaker 42: We'll go to Councillor Eccles. Thank

01:47:52 Speaker 42: you, Madam Warden. Through you, there's

01:47:53 Speaker 42: no doubt there's a need in

01:47:56 Speaker 42: our community for this opioid crisis.

01:47:57 Speaker 42: My fear was one that I've

01:48:00 Speaker 42: shared maybe with this council a

01:48:03 Speaker 42: couple of times and continually for

01:48:06 Speaker 42: a number of years. Here we

01:48:08 Speaker 42: have funding, federal funding, coming at

01:48:12 Speaker 42: a hundred percent for six months

01:48:14 Speaker 42: for us to expand our SOS

01:48:17 Speaker 42: programme. Is this a healthcare issue?

01:48:19 Speaker 42: In my mind, yes, it is.

01:48:26 Speaker 42: Property tax supposed to look after

01:48:28 Speaker 42: healthcare. How much downloading is this?

01:48:29 Speaker 42: Great, we're getting into it for

01:48:32 Speaker 42: six months. Six years from now,

01:48:34 Speaker 42: council around here, which I may

01:48:35 Speaker 42: be here, I may not be

01:48:37 Speaker 42: here, be able to express to

01:48:44 Speaker 42: them, how did we get to

01:48:46 Speaker 42: this? We're spending eight and a

01:48:53 Speaker 42: half million dollars. We've had to

01:48:54 Speaker 42: delay building ambulance. base because we

01:48:56 Speaker 42: haven't got any money because our

01:48:59 Speaker 33: paramedics are running around doing healthcare

01:49:01 Speaker 33: issues. It it's a slippery slope.

01:49:03 Speaker 33: It's one that I we need

01:49:04 Speaker 33: it, but do we need those

01:49:05 Speaker 33: that are supposed to be looking

01:49:07 Speaker 33: after this? It's the guaranteed funding.

01:49:10 Speaker 33: I guess. we're probably the best,

01:49:11 Speaker 33: our paramedics to deliver the service,

01:49:13 Speaker 33: and I don't think there's any

01:49:15 Speaker 33: question to that. But how much

01:49:20 Speaker 33: can we deliver, and take as

01:49:23 Speaker 33: a download from the province, from

01:49:24 Speaker 33: the feds, to keep doing their

01:49:26 Speaker 33: job, to the taxpayer? Maybe we

01:49:28 Speaker 33: should go to the feds and

01:49:31 Speaker 33: to Doug Ford, and say, we

01:49:34 Speaker 33: need more. of those that are

01:49:37 Speaker 33: breaking the law by speeding, so

01:49:40 Speaker 33: that we can have the funds

01:49:41 Speaker 33: to be able to do their

01:49:44 Speaker 33: job. That was a little bit

01:49:47 Speaker 33: in jest, but the idea of

01:49:49 Speaker 33: this being a six-month, hundred percent

01:49:51 Speaker 33: funded, once we're into it, it's

01:49:53 Speaker 33: going to be very hard to

01:49:56 Speaker 33: get out of it. Extremely hard

01:49:58 Speaker 33: to get out of it, and

01:50:00 Speaker 33: then it falls. to the property

01:50:01 Speaker 33: taxpayers to support it. That's

01:50:03 Speaker 33: my fear. I will be supporting

01:50:05 Speaker 33: it at this point in time,

01:50:07 Speaker 33: but it's one thing to look

01:50:08 Speaker 33: down. We've got to keep the

01:50:17 Speaker 33: pressure on. Who should be looking

01:50:20 Speaker 13: after it? We're delivering a service.

01:50:23 Speaker 13: We're not building a service. Okay.

01:50:25 Speaker 13: Thank you, Director Murtha. Did you

01:50:28 Speaker 13: want to comment, Charles? Did you

01:50:30 Speaker 13: want to comment, or yeah, I