Grey County Committee of the Whole Meeting Transcript — November 27, 2025

00:43:08 Speaker 02: Okay, so I'd like to call

00:43:10 Speaker 02: to order this committee, the whole

00:43:11 Speaker 02: meeting of November twenty seventh, twenty

00:43:14 Speaker 02: twenty five. At this point in

00:43:15 Speaker 02: time, on this agenda, I'll put

00:43:18 Speaker 02: out a call for any declarations

00:43:20 Speaker 02: of interest. Seeing no hands in

00:43:23 Speaker 02: the chamber or online, we'll go

00:43:24 Speaker 02: to business arising for minutes. Seeing

00:43:29 Speaker 02: nothing, we'll go to. We do

00:43:34 Speaker 02: not have any delegations scheduled today,

00:43:41 Speaker 25: and next we will move on

00:43:45 Speaker 25: to item five, which is to

00:43:49 Speaker 25: determine any items for separate discussion.

00:43:51 Speaker 25: So, if we look at the

00:43:52 Speaker 25: consent agenda, we have four different

00:43:55 Speaker 25: reports listed under six. Are there

00:44:03 Speaker 26: any that Council Member, a Committee,

00:44:06 Speaker 26: the whole member would like to

00:44:09 Speaker 02: pull for separate discussion? Okay. Yes,

00:44:12 Speaker 02: Councillor McKay. Yeah, I wonder if

00:44:14 Speaker 02: we'd discuss more on six B.

00:44:16 Speaker 02: Six B is in Bob. D

00:44:18 Speaker 02: is in dog. Dog. Okay, David.

00:44:20 Speaker 02: Thank you. D is in David.

00:44:22 Speaker 02: Okay, so six D we will

00:44:24 Speaker 02: pull for separate discussion, and anything

00:44:26 Speaker 02: else. Okay, I'm not seeing any

00:44:28 Speaker 02: further hands in, so it is

00:44:30 Speaker 02: recommended. Item six is recommended that

00:44:31 Speaker 02: the following consentage items be consent.

00:44:33 Speaker 02: agenda items be received and that

00:44:37 Speaker 02: staff be authorised to take the

00:44:39 Speaker 02: actions necessary to give effect to

00:44:48 Speaker 02: the recommendations and staff reports and

00:44:50 Speaker 02: that the correspondence be supported and

00:44:52 Speaker 02: received for information as recommended in

00:44:54 Speaker 02: the consent agenda. This is for

00:44:57 Speaker 02: items six A, B, and

00:44:59 Speaker 02: C. D will be for further

00:45:03 Speaker 02: discussion. So may I ask for

00:45:05 Speaker 02: a mover? Move by Councillor Patterson,

00:45:07 Speaker 02: seconded by Councillor Dobrin. Any discussion?

00:45:10 Speaker 02: All those in favour? And that

00:45:11 Speaker 02: is carried. Okay, so we'll go

00:45:14 Speaker 02: to the items listed in seven

00:45:16 Speaker 02: before we return back to

00:45:19 Speaker 02: sixty. So we'll go to seven

00:45:22 Speaker 02: A. It's recommended that the Planning

00:45:24 Speaker 02: and Economic Development Advisory Committee meeting

00:45:26 Speaker 02: minutes, dated November sixth, twenty twenty

00:45:32 Speaker 02: six, twenty twenty five. That should

00:45:34 Speaker 02: be be adopted as presented and

00:45:35 Speaker 02: fall and the following resolutions there.

00:45:40 Speaker 02: And the following resolutions therein be

00:45:41 Speaker 02: endorsed. That the report E D

00:45:42 Speaker 02: T C P E D A

00:45:44 Speaker 02: C thirteen twenty five regarding the

00:45:46 Speaker 27: Economic Development Tourism and Cultural Culture

00:45:48 Speaker 27: Strategic Progress Report November twenty twenty

00:45:52 Speaker 27: five be received for information. May

00:45:54 Speaker 27: ask for a mover and a

00:45:56 Speaker 27: seconder. Moved by Councillor Patterson, seconded

00:45:57 Speaker 27: by seconded by Councillor Pringle. It's

00:45:59 Speaker 27: now on the floor for discussion.

00:46:01 Speaker 27: So I'll call up Director Myers.

00:46:02 Speaker 27: Thank you, through you, Madam Warden.

00:46:04 Speaker 27: I'm going to start us off,

00:46:06 Speaker 27: and then Scott is going to

00:46:10 Speaker 27: finish up with a conversation about

00:46:11 Speaker 27: Bill 60. I'm not touching that

00:46:13 Speaker 27: one. So we had another great

00:46:14 Speaker 27: Planning and Economic Development Committee meeting.

00:46:16 Speaker 27: It was really good, and I

00:46:19 Speaker 27: appreciate that it says 2026 in

00:46:21 Speaker 27: the minutes because I wrote this

00:46:23 Speaker 27: entire report as 2026 because we're

00:46:25 Speaker 27: so embedded in thinking of next

00:46:27 Speaker 27: year at this point in time.

00:46:28 Speaker 27: But this really was our final.

00:46:32 Speaker 27: report to PDAC on progress from

00:46:34 Speaker 27: 2025. There will be another

00:46:36 Speaker 27: annual report, so our

00:46:39 Speaker 27: second annual report will come

00:46:41 Speaker 27: to you in January, February of

00:46:45 Speaker 27: next year, to talk about everything

00:46:46 Speaker 27: from January through December. But this

00:46:47 Speaker 27: one goes from August to November,

00:46:49 Speaker 27: and it really was focused on

00:46:51 Speaker 27: our continued drive towards the progress

00:46:53 Speaker 27: around the theme of study in

00:46:55 Speaker 27: year two of master plan delivery.

00:46:56 Speaker 27: So since August, our team has

00:46:58 Speaker 27: been really focused on that. study

00:46:59 Speaker 27: theme: understanding consumer behaviour, evaluating site-specific

00:47:00 Speaker 27: readiness, analysing broader provincial/national trends, and

00:47:01 Speaker 27: trialing new programme offerings. We also

00:47:03 Speaker 27: talked a little bit about some

00:47:05 Speaker 27: of the lean work that our

00:47:07 Speaker 27: department has been doing, and we

00:47:10 Speaker 27: did our very first EDTC team

00:47:12 Speaker 27: building and development day, which we

00:47:13 Speaker 27: hosted as a grateful gathering. And

00:47:16 Speaker 27: we were on a bus and

00:47:17 Speaker 27: we toured South Grey. We will

00:47:19 Speaker 27: hit North Grey next year, but

00:47:21 Speaker 27: it was a really great opportunity

00:47:22 Speaker 27: to get out, get our feet

00:47:25 Speaker 27: on the ground, go see. all

00:47:26 Speaker 27: the different elements of our department

00:47:29 Speaker 27: as a broader team, and just

00:47:30 Speaker 27: celebrate together. So that was wonderful.

00:47:31 Speaker 27: We also did another training in

00:47:33 Speaker 27: November on Lean. So we've now

00:47:34 Speaker 27: done four different, I guess, buckets

00:47:35 Speaker 27: of Lean training, which we're getting

00:47:39 Speaker 27: more excited about every time we

00:47:41 Speaker 27: go down this path, and we're

00:47:43 Speaker 27: starting to use that work already,

00:47:44 Speaker 27: which is really exciting. So

00:47:46 Speaker 27: we did complete all of our

00:47:48 Speaker 27: job reviews and restructurings underway, so

00:47:50 Speaker 27: that we can achieve that highest

00:47:53 Speaker 27: and best value for human resources.

00:47:55 Speaker 27: and that's something that

00:47:57 Speaker 27: we talked about yesterday in the

00:47:59 Speaker 27: Budget and Finance Committee, and we'll

00:48:00 Speaker 27: talk about again when we go

00:48:01 Speaker 27: through budget in December. But the

00:48:03 Speaker 27: most notable improvements have been that

00:48:05 Speaker 27: we're really coming together to find

00:48:07 Speaker 27: more alignment right across the department,

00:48:08 Speaker 27: efficiencies, and cross departmental collabouration. So

00:48:10 Speaker 27: that's making the best time of

00:48:13 Speaker 27: our staff time and resources. In

00:48:15 Speaker 27: terms of priority one, leadership and

00:48:17 Speaker 27: collabouration, we hosted another successful Economic

00:48:18 Speaker 27: Development Leadership Forum. This was the

00:48:19 Speaker 27: largest one yet, the most. energy

00:48:21 Speaker 27: in the room. I'm still getting

00:48:23 Speaker 27: my voice back from yelling over

00:48:24 Speaker 27: that crowd of more than 90

00:48:25 Speaker 27: people who were very excited and

00:48:27 Speaker 27: engaged. So it's really nice to

00:48:28 Speaker 27: see this continue, the progress, continue

00:48:30 Speaker 27: the conversations, the education and training

00:48:32 Speaker 27: where we can all come together

00:48:33 Speaker 27: and share in that mindset to

00:48:37 Speaker 27: grow, to ask questions, and to

00:48:38 Speaker 27: not be afraid to challenge one

00:48:39 Speaker 27: another. I think that's a really

00:48:40 Speaker 27: positive thing coming out of these

00:48:43 Speaker 27: events, and the fact that they

00:48:45 Speaker 27: now include all of senior management

00:48:48 Speaker 27: teams as well from each municipality

00:48:49 Speaker 27: is important. So we're all speaking

00:48:50 Speaker 27: the same language because economic development

00:48:51 Speaker 27: doesn't stop at an economic development

00:48:53 Speaker 27: title; it hits every single one

00:48:54 Speaker 27: of us. The Team Gray MOU—that

00:48:58 Speaker 27: is a project that has been

00:49:00 Speaker 27: on my plate and that will

00:49:02 Speaker 27: be coming to you next month

00:49:03 Speaker 27: as well. That has gone through

00:49:04 Speaker 27: a lot of conversation with your

00:49:06 Speaker 27: CIOs, with your economic development staff,

00:49:07 Speaker 27: multiple rounds of engagement. So we

00:49:10 Speaker 27: think that we're at a point

00:49:11 Speaker 27: now where we've got a good

00:49:14 Speaker 27: draft to bring forward and present

00:49:15 Speaker 27: to you, and that really is

00:49:17 Speaker 27: meant to kind of hone. our

00:49:19 Speaker 27: skill of working collabouratively, and so

00:49:21 Speaker 27: put something on paper that gives

00:49:23 Speaker 27: us a commitment as the county

00:49:24 Speaker 27: to each of your municipalities and

00:49:27 Speaker 27: your municipalities to the county, and

00:49:28 Speaker 27: how we're going to do economic

00:49:30 Speaker 27: development and investment readiness together. So

00:49:32 Speaker 27: there will be a fulsome report

00:49:34 Speaker 27: coming forward in a couple weeks.

00:49:35 Speaker 27: We looked at business retention and

00:49:36 Speaker 27: expansion, talked about sector scans and

00:49:37 Speaker 27: the ongoing uncertainty around tariffs, how

00:49:40 Speaker 27: difficult that is on our businesses.

00:49:42 Speaker 27: The one thing that we will

00:49:43 Speaker 27: highlight, and we did talk about

00:49:45 Speaker 27: it then. we're not hearing the

00:49:46 Speaker 27: same kind of impact as

00:49:49 Speaker 27: other areas because we are a

00:49:51 Speaker 27: diversified economy. That is something that

00:49:53 Speaker 27: all of our teams, locally in

00:49:55 Speaker 27: your municipalities and at the county,

00:49:57 Speaker 27: have strived for to make sure

00:49:59 Speaker 27: we don't have all of our

00:50:01 Speaker 27: eggs in one bucket. So

00:50:03 Speaker 27: even though there is absolutely uncertainty

00:50:05 Speaker 27: out there, we just want to

00:50:07 Speaker 27: know where is it going to

00:50:09 Speaker 27: land so that people can make

00:50:11 Speaker 27: decisions, those long-term investment decisions, hiring

00:50:13 Speaker 27: decisions around workforce, all of those

00:50:16 Speaker 27: pieces. That's where we're seeing the

00:50:17 Speaker 27: greatest uncertainty for tariffs. Our work

00:50:19 Speaker 27: with Georgian College is continuing. We

00:50:22 Speaker 27: had a great experience at

00:50:24 Speaker 27: AMO. I think that really landed

00:50:25 Speaker 27: well with the Ministry of Colleges,

00:50:27 Speaker 27: Universities, Research Excellence, and Security. It's

00:50:30 Speaker 27: a long name for Ministry, but

00:50:32 Speaker 27: they absolutely understand where we're coming

00:50:36 Speaker 27: from, the importance of our rural-serving

00:50:38 Speaker 27: campuses, and what that means for

00:50:39 Speaker 27: the region when we have really,

00:50:41 Speaker 27: truly fine-tuned exactly what programmemes are

00:50:44 Speaker 27: going to be delivered because that's

00:50:45 Speaker 27: what's needed here in this region.

00:50:48 Speaker 27: From the business. Enterprise Centre, Courtney

00:50:50 Speaker 27: provided a presentation on the work

00:50:51 Speaker 27: to date and talked about the

00:50:54 Speaker 27: trends that we're seeing in those

00:50:55 Speaker 27: couple of months. She had 134

00:50:57 Speaker 27: inquiries, 44 consultations were conducted. There

00:50:59 Speaker 27: were many workshops. There's a lot

00:51:01 Speaker 27: going on in the small business

00:51:04 Speaker 27: world. There's a lot of interest.

00:51:07 Speaker 27: It absolutely ebbs and flows, and

00:51:08 Speaker 27: there seems to be a trend

00:51:09 Speaker 27: now going towards that—not necessarily a

00:51:11 Speaker 27: second career, but what can you

00:51:13 Speaker 27: do on the side, a side

00:51:15 Speaker 27: hustle? As the economy tightens, that

00:51:18 Speaker 27: has been where we have seen

00:51:20 Speaker 27: some shifts happening. But the interest

00:51:22 Speaker 27: does not stop, and bricks and

00:51:23 Speaker 27: mortar again is becoming more popular.

00:51:24 Speaker 27: So that is a positive. With

00:51:26 Speaker 27: Sydney Campus, we hired or we

00:51:27 Speaker 27: highlighted that we had in the

00:51:29 Speaker 27: month of September more than four

00:51:30 Speaker 27: thousand people came through that door.

00:51:33 Speaker 27: So it is going very very

00:51:35 Speaker 27: well. A couple of large scale

00:51:36 Speaker 27: events. There were eighty rentals during

00:51:37 Speaker 27: that period, and. the maker space

00:51:38 Speaker 27: has also exceeded 100 members. So

00:51:39 Speaker 27: that was the goal when they

00:51:42 Speaker 27: launched. Within the first year, it

00:51:43 Speaker 27: was a year and I think

00:51:45 Speaker 27: two months, and they made it

00:51:47 Speaker 27: to 100 members, which is phenomenal.

00:51:49 Speaker 27: So we're very proud of the

00:51:50 Speaker 27: work they're doing. Kalina also took

00:51:51 Speaker 27: us through a long conversation about

00:51:54 Speaker 27: data because that was a question

00:51:56 Speaker 27: that we had at the last

00:51:58 Speaker 27: PDC meeting. So we came back

00:52:01 Speaker 27: with something a little bit more

00:52:03 Speaker 27: fulsome to talk about where are

00:52:04 Speaker 27: we focusing on in terms of

00:52:06 Speaker 27: those KPIs? Because really, at the

00:52:07 Speaker 27: end of the day, we have

00:52:09 Speaker 27: the opportunity to decide what do

00:52:11 Speaker 27: we want to track, what actually

00:52:13 Speaker 27: matters to us in the work

00:52:15 Speaker 27: that we're trying to advance, and

00:52:17 Speaker 27: the focus around those KPIs was

00:52:19 Speaker 27: website engagement, brand awareness, visitor and

00:52:21 Speaker 27: business support, and the storytelling impact.

00:52:23 Speaker 27: So there's lots pages of details

00:52:25 Speaker 27: if you want in the report

00:52:26 Speaker 27: that you can take a look

00:52:28 Speaker 27: at. But all that to say,

00:52:29 Speaker 27: we've definitely seen dips in some

00:52:32 Speaker 27: areas because we're trialing new things.

00:52:34 Speaker 27: We've seen incredible and explosive growth

00:52:37 Speaker 27: in others. So that's why we

00:52:39 Speaker 27: continue to study and. understand what

00:52:40 Speaker 27: is going to land. We also

00:52:43 Speaker 27: shared the new look of the

00:52:45 Speaker 27: Visit Gray website, which is very

00:52:47 Speaker 27: exciting. It's been ten years that

00:52:49 Speaker 27: we've had the same Visit Gray

00:52:51 Speaker 27: website, the same brand. We thought

00:52:52 Speaker 27: it was time for a refresh.

00:52:54 Speaker 27: So Gather is now the new

00:52:55 Speaker 27: look and feel of Visit Gray

00:52:57 Speaker 27: as a whole. And finally, turning

00:52:59 Speaker 27: to Gray Roots, we talked about

00:53:01 Speaker 27: leadership and collabouration in terms of

00:53:03 Speaker 27: the expert stewards. We have officially

00:53:04 Speaker 27: officially launched the Gray Gallery. which

00:53:06 Speaker 27: has been years in the making.

00:53:08 Speaker 27: We received over three hundred and

00:53:10 Speaker 27: fifty-five thousand dollars in federal support

00:53:12 Speaker 27: to make that project happen. We

00:53:14 Speaker 27: have set ourselves up for the

00:53:15 Speaker 27: long term. The way that it

00:53:16 Speaker 27: has been designed gives us the

00:53:17 Speaker 27: ability to change the look, the

00:53:20 Speaker 27: field, the design, the size, and

00:53:21 Speaker 27: scope without having to rebuild anything.

00:53:22 Speaker 27: So that's what we were looking

00:53:25 Speaker 27: for: was a sustainable build. And

00:53:27 Speaker 27: what that did was transition us

00:53:29 Speaker 27: from the old Gray Gallery had

00:53:31 Speaker 27: ninety-four artifacts. Now we have three

00:53:33 Speaker 27: hundred and four artifacts. in there.

00:53:34 Speaker 27: So the intent is to get

00:53:36 Speaker 27: more out to the public instead

00:53:38 Speaker 27: of having it in the back

00:53:41 Speaker 27: of the house where it's being

00:53:42 Speaker 27: protected. But now it can be

00:53:44 Speaker 27: a story around it, and we

00:53:46 Speaker 27: can learn more about Gray. We

00:53:50 Speaker 27: also talked about the partnership with

00:53:52 Speaker 27: the corporation as a whole and

00:53:54 Speaker 27: hosting the very first Truth and

00:53:55 Speaker 27: Reconciliation Day for staff at Gray

00:53:59 Speaker 27: Roots, which was phenomenal, and we

00:54:04 Speaker 27: look forward to building on that

00:54:06 Speaker 27: event as we go forward. And

00:54:09 Speaker 27: then just the highlight around that

00:54:10 Speaker 27: Lean project. that we did in

00:54:11 Speaker 27: the summer for the village and

00:54:13 Speaker 27: the volunteer impact we had over

00:54:15 Speaker 27: 1,100 hours, so 360 volunteer shifts

00:54:17 Speaker 27: over the course of the summer,

00:54:18 Speaker 27: which was averaging 40 shifts per

00:54:20 Speaker 27: week. And the visitation impact we

00:54:21 Speaker 27: had more than 9,200 visitors through

00:54:23 Speaker 27: Morriston, and 5,414 visitors participated in

00:54:25 Speaker 27: the engagement activities. More than half

00:54:26 Speaker 27: of them actually hands-on, so we

00:54:28 Speaker 27: we know that we've hit the

00:54:30 Speaker 27: mark and we. look forward to

00:54:32 Speaker 27: continuing that next year. So, as

00:54:35 Speaker 27: we continue to prioritize our programmeming

00:54:36 Speaker 27: and operations review, we're looking at

00:54:38 Speaker 27: how we do exhibits. We're looking

00:54:39 Speaker 27: at how we do events to

00:54:40 Speaker 27: make sure that we are doing

00:54:51 Speaker 28: the best that we can with

00:54:53 Speaker 28: fewer resources, because we don't always

00:54:56 Speaker 29: need to go big to have

00:54:57 Speaker 29: a good impact. So that has

00:54:58 Speaker 29: been a real shift, and a

00:54:59 Speaker 29: great roundtable to end out that

00:55:01 Speaker 29: meeting, listening to success stories from

00:55:03 Speaker 29: Georgian College and from others, and

00:55:05 Speaker 29: just sharing initiatives for awareness. So

00:55:07 Speaker 29: I will. end it there and

00:55:09 Speaker 29: turn it over to Scott to

00:55:11 Speaker 29: talk about Bill 60. All right,

00:55:13 Speaker 29: thanks, Savannah. Good morning, Ward Matrosa,

00:55:15 Speaker 29: and members of Council. I realize

00:55:17 Speaker 29: Council has stopped believing me when

00:55:19 Speaker 29: I say this, but I promise

00:55:21 Speaker 29: I will keep this one brief.

00:55:23 Speaker 29: I mean it this time. So

00:55:26 Speaker 29: at PDAC, we did have the

00:55:28 Speaker 29: the Bill 60 presentation, which touched

00:55:30 Speaker 29: on the potential changes, both. in

00:55:31 Speaker 29: the planning sphere, the transportation sphere,

00:55:32 Speaker 29: and the housing sphere, council should

00:55:33 Speaker 29: be well aware of this because

00:55:35 Speaker 29: we had a similar presentation on

00:55:37 Speaker 29: November the 13th at the committee

00:55:39 Speaker 29: of the whole meeting, and and

00:55:40 Speaker 29: just as a bit of an

00:55:42 Speaker 29: update on Bill 60 on November

00:55:43 Speaker 29: 24th, so Monday of this week,

00:55:46 Speaker 29: the the province Bill 60 did

00:55:47 Speaker 29: receive third reading. So we haven't

00:55:48 Speaker 29: been able to find a final

00:55:50 Speaker 29: version of the bill yet to

00:55:52 Speaker 29: see if there was anything that

00:55:53 Speaker 29: was changed from from the initial

00:55:56 Speaker 29: draft that was released. but we

00:55:57 Speaker 29: are actively monitoring that. As you

00:56:01 Speaker 29: may be aware, if you were

00:56:02 Speaker 29: scanning your inboxes late Saturday afternoon,

00:56:04 Speaker 29: the county was able to submit

00:56:06 Speaker 29: comments. So thank you for council

00:56:08 Speaker 29: support in in submitting comments to

00:56:10 Speaker 29: the province in that regard. And

00:56:11 Speaker 29: and some of the comments we

00:56:12 Speaker 29: submitted were on the legislative changes

00:56:14 Speaker 29: in Bill sixty itself, and some

00:56:15 Speaker 29: of the comments were on some

00:56:20 Speaker 29: other related consultations. For so for

00:56:24 Speaker 29: some of those related consultations, there

00:56:26 Speaker 29: may still be avenues to to

00:56:27 Speaker 29: go back and forth with the

00:56:29 Speaker 02: province and and put forward. Gray's

00:56:31 Speaker 02: point of view there with respect

00:56:33 Speaker 02: to those potential impacts, both positive

00:56:34 Speaker 02: and potentially negative, on the county

00:56:41 Speaker 02: and the member municipalities. So, with

00:56:42 Speaker 02: that, turn it back to you,

00:56:45 Speaker 02: Madam Warden, and be happy to

00:56:48 Speaker 02: take any questions if there are

00:56:49 Speaker 02: any. Okay, I'll look online, and

00:56:51 Speaker 02: I will look over here, and

00:56:53 Speaker 02: I'm actually not seeing questions come

00:56:56 Speaker 02: forward. So, thank you very much

00:56:58 Speaker 02: for providing that information. It has

00:57:00 Speaker 02: been moved and seconded. We've also

00:57:03 Speaker 02: heard further verbal updates. So I'll

00:57:06 Speaker 02: call the question. All those in

00:57:07 Speaker 02: favour? And that motion is carried.

00:57:09 Speaker 02: Next, we'll move on to item

00:57:12 Speaker 02: seven B. It's recommended that report

00:57:14 Speaker 02: PDRCW sixty four twenty five is

00:57:21 Speaker 02: received, and that a copy of

00:57:24 Speaker 02: this report be shared to the

00:57:25 Speaker 02: member municipalities within Gray County, and

00:57:48 Speaker 02: with MPs MPPs for Gray Bruce

00:57:51 Speaker 30: Owen Sound and Simcoe Gray for

00:57:54 Speaker 30: information purposes. May I ask for

00:57:55 Speaker 30: a mover and a seconder? Move

00:57:56 Speaker 30: by Councillor Nielsen, and seconded by

00:57:57 Speaker 30: Councillor Dobrin. It's now on the

00:57:59 Speaker 30: floor for discussion. And with that,

00:58:02 Speaker 30: then I will invite our senior

00:58:04 Speaker 30: policy planner, Liz Buxton, to come

00:58:06 Speaker 30: speak to it. Wonderful. Thank you

00:58:09 Speaker 30: very much. Welcome to be here

00:58:10 Speaker 30: today. We'll just be to get

00:58:13 Speaker 30: the presentation ordered there. Thank you

00:58:15 Speaker 30: very much. Okay, minor technical difficulties,

00:58:16 Speaker 30: but we're on. We're ready to

00:58:19 Speaker 30: go. So thank you so much.

00:58:20 Speaker 30: Really glad to be here today.

00:58:23 Speaker 30: A little bit of a snowy

00:58:24 Speaker 30: day, but glad to make. the

00:58:26 Speaker 30: the trip over from from Aitford,

00:58:28 Speaker 30: where where I am, and my

00:58:30 Speaker 30: neighbour, Councillor Kentner, has also made

00:58:31 Speaker 30: the trip. So that's good; we're

00:58:33 Speaker 30: in sync. So today, I just

00:58:38 Speaker 30: i I wanted to speak through

00:58:41 Speaker 30: the report that has been shared

00:58:43 Speaker 30: within the package. This does offer

00:58:47 Speaker 30: an update regarding the housing action

00:58:48 Speaker 30: plan and various actions that have

00:58:49 Speaker 30: been happening under that portfolio over

00:58:51 Speaker 30: the past year. And just for

00:58:54 Speaker 30: reference, here have noted the recommendation

00:58:55 Speaker 30: of that report with. Of that

00:58:57 Speaker 30: report, which is that be received

00:58:59 Speaker 30: for information, and as noted, that

00:59:01 Speaker 30: we will share that on to

00:59:05 Speaker 30: the member municipalities and the MPs

00:59:07 Speaker 30: and MPPs for their information as

00:59:08 Speaker 30: well. So my presentation will follow

00:59:10 Speaker 30: fairly closely in terms of the

00:59:12 Speaker 30: structure of the report. And firstly,

00:59:15 Speaker 30: I guess what I just wanted

00:59:17 Speaker 30: to offer is just a little

00:59:18 Speaker 30: bit of background information to to

00:59:19 Speaker 30: see how we got here. So

00:59:22 Speaker 30: that housing action plan of the

00:59:25 Speaker 30: county was. The housing action plan

00:59:27 Speaker 30: of the county was endorsed by

00:59:29 Speaker 30: county council in August of 2023.

00:59:32 Speaker 30: There has been ongoing action by

00:59:34 Speaker 30: both county and local staff on

00:59:36 Speaker 30: that variety of actions since that

00:59:37 Speaker 30: time, and an update report was

00:59:38 Speaker 30: offered in October of 2024. So

00:59:40 Speaker 30: last fall, in that regard, and

00:59:42 Speaker 30: I would just further identify here

00:59:46 Speaker 30: for those that may not be

00:59:49 Speaker 30: familiar, we did also have a

00:59:50 Speaker 30: report just back in September relating

00:59:53 Speaker 30: to some of the elements under

00:59:55 Speaker 30: the housing action plan relating to

00:59:57 Speaker 30: surplus lands. and so the report

01:00:00 Speaker 30: offered within the package. It's not

01:00:03 Speaker 30: a fulsome, comprehensive report. We are

01:00:05 Speaker 30: looking at certain elements, and so

01:00:06 Speaker 30: I just suggest within and here

01:00:08 Speaker 30: as well that to get that

01:00:10 Speaker 30: most fulsome picture of all of

01:00:12 Speaker 30: the various elements of work underway,

01:00:14 Speaker 30: I would refer the reader to

01:00:17 Speaker 30: to those other reports that are

01:00:19 Speaker 30: linked as well. So within the

01:00:22 Speaker 30: report offered within the package, we

01:00:24 Speaker 30: have split that out into two

01:00:25 Speaker 30: sections, roughly in half. So the

01:00:29 Speaker 30: first focus of the first half

01:00:33 Speaker 30: of the report is regarding some

01:00:34 Speaker 30: select ongoing items that we've highlighted

01:00:36 Speaker 30: for an update. The second half

01:00:38 Speaker 30: that report speaks to some of

01:00:40 Speaker 30: the more abstract actions that are

01:00:41 Speaker 30: identified within the Housing Action Plan.

01:00:43 Speaker 30: So they're not quite as concrete

01:00:44 Speaker 30: in terms of the specific things

01:00:45 Speaker 30: to be done, and those relate

01:00:49 Speaker 30: to nonprofit sector capacity building as

01:00:50 Speaker 30: well as exploration of innovative financial

01:00:52 Speaker 30: tools. and so I think with

01:00:55 Speaker 30: planning, we're always kind of living

01:00:58 Speaker 30: in two time spaces. So we're

01:01:01 Speaker 30: we're we're in the current moment,

01:01:02 Speaker 30: delivering tasks and actions, and we're

01:01:03 Speaker 30: also have an eye ahead to

01:01:04 Speaker 30: the future and and what opportunities

01:01:08 Speaker 30: might be there and how we

01:01:11 Speaker 30: position ourselves for those. So these

01:01:12 Speaker 30: two sections of the report speak

01:01:14 Speaker 30: a little bit along those lines.

01:01:18 Speaker 30: So what's going on now, and

01:01:20 Speaker 30: where do we see us going

01:01:22 Speaker 30: in the future potentially as well?

01:01:23 Speaker 30: And I guess what I would

01:01:26 Speaker 30: further say is just around that

01:01:28 Speaker 30: abstract piece. You know, I think

01:01:30 Speaker 30: what is abstract today potentially is

01:01:32 Speaker 30: what is foundational tomorrow. So, you

01:01:35 Speaker 30: know, I do think this is

01:01:36 Speaker 30: important work, and I'm really excited

01:01:37 Speaker 30: to get to talk about some

01:01:38 Speaker 30: of it today. So, in that

01:01:42 Speaker 30: first half of the report, I've

01:01:44 Speaker 30: just really provided a brief update

01:01:47 Speaker 30: regarding each of the sections we

01:01:48 Speaker 30: spoke to. So, firstly, 1.1 regarding

01:01:49 Speaker 30: surplus lands. staff just offered that

01:01:51 Speaker 30: that prior report has been brought

01:01:53 Speaker 30: forward. If you recall, that report

01:01:55 Speaker 30: was relating to some potentially surplus

01:01:58 Speaker 30: properties that the county owns in

01:01:59 Speaker 30: Markdale and in Durham, and some

01:02:01 Speaker 30: ongoing work that we hope

01:02:03 Speaker 30: to do continuing into twenty twenty

01:02:07 Speaker 30: six for those lands. So we

01:02:09 Speaker 30: have linked that report for

01:02:11 Speaker 30: reference. If anyone would like a

01:02:14 Speaker 30: bit of a refresher on that

01:02:16 Speaker 30: one, with respect to item one

01:02:18 Speaker 30: point two, so enhanced data collection

01:02:19 Speaker 30: and sharing, it's a little square

01:02:23 Speaker 30: on the slide, but it's actually

01:02:24 Speaker 30: a whole heck of a lot

01:02:26 Speaker 30: worth that goes in behind that.

01:02:29 Speaker 30: So, what we've highlighted there is

01:02:30 Speaker 30: that there is an in-process growth

01:02:33 Speaker 30: management strategy underway, and I think

01:02:36 Speaker 30: Scott and I will likely be

01:02:39 Speaker 30: back to next council to provide

01:02:41 Speaker 30: some additional information regarding that process.

01:02:43 Speaker 30: But that is through that process,

01:02:45 Speaker 30: we will be developing updated population,

01:02:46 Speaker 30: household, and employment forecast figures for

01:02:47 Speaker 30: the county through 2051, and. 51,

01:02:50 Speaker 30: and that underpins a lot of

01:02:51 Speaker 30: our long-term planning and municipal planning

01:02:53 Speaker 30: and infrastructure planning. So

01:02:55 Speaker 30: that's an important process. Following that,

01:02:58 Speaker 30: the intention is to complete a

01:03:00 Speaker 30: housing need assessment on a regional

01:03:03 Speaker 30: basis. So looking and pulling from

01:03:05 Speaker 30: some of the data from the

01:03:06 Speaker 30: growth management around unit demand, taking

01:03:08 Speaker 30: stock of existing housing resources that

01:03:10 Speaker 30: are available, and doing some gap

01:03:12 Speaker 30: analysis around what additional built form

01:03:13 Speaker 30: housing might be needed for the

01:03:16 Speaker 30: go forward. To go forward, and

01:03:18 Speaker 30: data collection has begun on that,

01:03:22 Speaker 30: and we speak to that a

01:03:24 Speaker 30: little bit in the reports from

01:03:26 Speaker 30: the initial gathering that's happened. And

01:03:28 Speaker 30: then there is just we've highlighted

01:03:30 Speaker 30: that there is ongoing discussion regarding

01:03:32 Speaker 30: housing-related definitions, data targets, and monitoring

01:03:34 Speaker 30: metrics. That discussion is happening around

01:03:38 Speaker 30: the staff affordable housing senior practice

01:03:39 Speaker 30: table, and I think that that

01:03:43 Speaker 30: will prepare us as we move

01:03:45 Speaker 30: towards that housing need assessment because

01:03:46 Speaker 30: I'd like to really present

01:03:49 Speaker 30: that information in a very tangible

01:03:51 Speaker 30: way. that we can all move

01:03:53 Speaker 30: forward. So we've got clear definitions

01:03:55 Speaker 30: and clear data metrics to help

01:03:57 Speaker 30: guide us in monitoring our progress

01:03:59 Speaker 30: as we go. With respect to

01:04:00 Speaker 30: section one point three of the

01:04:04 Speaker 30: report, that focused on the Gray

01:04:07 Speaker 30: County Housing Fund, and so many

01:04:08 Speaker 30: thanks to our our teammates in

01:04:11 Speaker 30: the Housing Department who helped with

01:04:13 Speaker 30: populating this section of the report.

01:04:15 Speaker 30: Within this section, we do offer

01:04:16 Speaker 30: some update regarding the county's. levy-supported

01:04:22 Speaker 30: housing fund, as has provided just

01:04:24 Speaker 30: shy of six billion dollars in

01:04:26 Speaker 30: funding for a variety of affordable,

01:04:27 Speaker 30: supportive, and transitional housing projects over

01:04:29 Speaker 30: the past four years, and those

01:04:30 Speaker 30: have been itemized within the report

01:04:33 Speaker 30: by by housing staff for us.

01:04:35 Speaker 30: They further highlight that there

01:04:38 Speaker 30: are some additional projects that

01:04:42 Speaker 30: are waiting in the wings for

01:04:44 Speaker 30: further funding, both locally and federally,

01:04:47 Speaker 30: and they additionally highlight that the

01:04:49 Speaker 30: Bay Counties Housing and Homelessness

01:04:52 Speaker 30: Plan. The Grey County's Housing and

01:04:53 Speaker 30: Homelessness Plan, which is prescribed and

01:04:54 Speaker 30: required by the province, will be

01:04:56 Speaker 30: due in May 2026. So, a

01:04:59 Speaker 30: revision is ongoing with respect to

01:05:02 Speaker 30: that plan. Regarding item 1.4, Community

01:05:03 Speaker 30: Improvement Plans. So, within the report,

01:05:04 Speaker 30: staff outlined that those plans are

01:05:05 Speaker 30: in place for the majority of

01:05:07 Speaker 30: member municipalities now at this time,

01:05:11 Speaker 30: and we do have a number

01:05:13 Speaker 30: of municipalities starting into an update

01:05:15 Speaker 30: process for those plans. County staff

01:05:17 Speaker 30: are encouraging generally consideration. of an

01:05:19 Speaker 30: affordable/slash housing/slash conversion type of programmemes

01:05:21 Speaker 30: at the discretion of the local

01:05:23 Speaker 30: municipalities, and just to support that,

01:05:25 Speaker 30: we have had some early kind

01:05:26 Speaker 30: of cross-pollination conversation, just opening up

01:05:29 Speaker 30: the idea that we could be

01:05:31 Speaker 30: working a little bit together, and

01:05:34 Speaker 30: we've had some early discussion with

01:05:36 Speaker 30: the economic development local developers table

01:05:37 Speaker 30: as well, just with respect to

01:05:39 Speaker 30: that. So I think we'll likely

01:05:41 Speaker 30: be getting together in January for

01:05:44 Speaker 30: something that almost. January first for

01:05:46 Speaker 30: this conversation about how we might

01:05:48 Speaker 30: work together on those updates and

01:05:51 Speaker 30: streamline. You may recall from prior

01:05:53 Speaker 30: reports, one of the things that

01:05:55 Speaker 30: we had been interested in learning

01:05:56 Speaker 30: more about was the potential to

01:05:57 Speaker 30: have a CIP at the county

01:05:59 Speaker 30: level as well, and so we

01:06:01 Speaker 30: had set out to approach the

01:06:04 Speaker 30: ministry staff and had had some

01:06:05 Speaker 30: back and forth with them

01:06:08 Speaker 30: around process, but then that item

01:06:09 Speaker 30: has subsequently been included within Bill

01:06:12 Speaker 30: sixteen, so. that's not noted. We

01:06:15 Speaker 30: are monitoring the status there, but

01:06:17 Speaker 30: I think if that element of

01:06:20 Speaker 30: the bill has progressed as as

01:06:22 Speaker 30: it was written into the draft,

01:06:24 Speaker 30: then that potential appears to exist

01:06:26 Speaker 30: or will shortly that we could

01:06:28 Speaker 30: further consider how we might target

01:06:30 Speaker 30: or prepare a CIP for the

01:06:36 Speaker 30: county as well. It is handy

01:06:38 Speaker 30: that these two items are on

01:06:40 Speaker 30: the slide together because I just

01:06:41 Speaker 30: I just want to plant the

01:06:44 Speaker 30: idea that we've got a couple

01:06:46 Speaker 30: of different tools here potentially at

01:06:49 Speaker 30: our disposal. and so I think

01:06:51 Speaker 30: there could certainly be some further

01:06:52 Speaker 30: conversation regarding further targeting and how

01:06:54 Speaker 30: those might be aligned to cover

01:06:56 Speaker 30: a greater breadth of projects to

01:06:58 Speaker 30: support them. Currently, the housing fund

01:07:00 Speaker 30: is is largely toolled towards most

01:07:02 Speaker 30: vulnerable populations, but we do understand

01:07:05 Speaker 30: that there is a range of

01:07:07 Speaker 30: affordability that is perhaps not well

01:07:10 Speaker 30: represented in our housing

01:07:13 Speaker 30: stock, and so perhaps

01:07:16 Speaker 30: the CIP might offer us further

01:07:18 Speaker 30: opportunity in in that. regard

01:07:22 Speaker 30: as well. Okay, and then finally

01:07:24 Speaker 30: for that first half of the

01:07:28 Speaker 30: report, we've just spoken at a

01:07:30 Speaker 30: high level to ongoing work regarding

01:07:32 Speaker 30: planning documents and processes, as we've

01:07:34 Speaker 30: offered a sample selection of of

01:07:36 Speaker 30: the type of work that's been

01:07:39 Speaker 30: happening. And so I think folks

01:07:41 Speaker 30: around this table would be quite

01:07:43 Speaker 30: familiar with that, and you've seen

01:07:44 Speaker 30: those documents and bylaws coming across

01:07:46 Speaker 30: your desk locally as well, but

01:07:56 Speaker 30: large. But largely, that has involved

01:07:59 Speaker 30: updates to our various planning documents.

01:08:00 Speaker 30: We've certainly seen folks at the

01:08:02 Speaker 30: local level looking to include ARU,

01:08:05 Speaker 30: additional residential unit policies and permissions,

01:08:08 Speaker 30: addressing short-term accommodation permissions and regulatory

01:08:10 Speaker 30: frameworks to get a good balance

01:08:13 Speaker 30: there. Articulating housing-related goals and objectives

01:08:15 Speaker 30: and targets, looking at height and

01:08:17 Speaker 30: density and intensification policies, and then

01:08:19 Speaker 30: creation of localized work plans to

01:08:21 Speaker 30: build upon what's included within the

01:08:22 Speaker 30: county housing plan. And so, if

01:08:24 Speaker 30: municipalities are looking to further further

01:08:28 Speaker 30: do that work, develop those work

01:08:29 Speaker 30: plans, I just would say that

01:08:31 Speaker 30: county staff are happy to have

01:08:34 Speaker 30: a conversation regarding the housing action

01:08:36 Speaker 30: plan and perhaps what might make

01:08:38 Speaker 30: sense for inclusion there. Okay. so

01:08:40 Speaker 30: I think we step into the

01:08:42 Speaker 30: second half of the report at

01:08:46 Speaker 30: this point in the presentation, and

01:08:48 Speaker 30: so as noted earlier in the

01:08:49 Speaker 30: presentation, the housing action plan does

01:08:52 Speaker 30: include some expressed intent around nonprofit

01:08:54 Speaker 30: sector capacity building. I think a

01:08:55 Speaker 30: lot of the existing affordable housing

01:08:57 Speaker 30: across Canada was actually created by

01:09:00 Speaker 30: that sector or in partnership with

01:09:01 Speaker 30: that sector, and so I think

01:09:04 Speaker 30: they are a very important partner

01:09:07 Speaker 30: as it comes to affordable housing,

01:09:09 Speaker 30: community housing. supply. A few thoughts

01:09:11 Speaker 30: that we shared in the report.

01:09:14 Speaker 30: So, firstly, I think that sector

01:09:17 Speaker 30: building work is intended to go

01:09:19 Speaker 30: above and beyond and build from

01:09:22 Speaker 30: the ongoing work with the nonprofit

01:09:26 Speaker 30: partners that is already underway by

01:09:28 Speaker 30: the housing department and service manager.

01:09:31 Speaker 30: The housing action plan does identify

01:09:34 Speaker 30: that you know there are some

01:09:37 Speaker 30: things that the municipal sector may

01:09:39 Speaker 30: not be ideally positioned, resource, or

01:09:41 Speaker 30: tool to do. and so it

01:09:43 Speaker 30: orients Gray County as a lead

01:09:45 Speaker 30: organisation, but really does encourage community

01:09:47 Speaker 30: partners of all all types, all

01:09:49 Speaker 30: of the sectors, to be working

01:09:50 Speaker 30: together towards collective housing goals. And

01:09:54 Speaker 30: I think really that sector capacity

01:09:55 Speaker 30: building would be intended to support

01:09:56 Speaker 30: that work by community partners towards

01:09:58 Speaker 30: collective benefit. So within that report,

01:10:00 Speaker 30: we do outline ongoing networking and

01:10:01 Speaker 30: co-learning work, and an emerging whole

01:10:04 Speaker 30: community approach. framing for collabouration. We

01:10:05 Speaker 30: speak to community incubation of housing

01:10:07 Speaker 30: system components to support affordable housing

01:10:10 Speaker 30: creation. Discuss a little bit of

01:10:12 Speaker 30: the emerging sector skills building efforts

01:10:16 Speaker 30: that are in place in Ontario,

01:10:18 Speaker 30: and then speak a little bit

01:10:20 Speaker 30: to scale considerations for affordable and

01:10:22 Speaker 30: non-market housing. Speaking to some of

01:10:23 Speaker 30: the grant and finance programmemes that

01:10:24 Speaker 30: are available or pending relating to

01:10:26 Speaker 30: that, and I'll highlight a few

01:10:28 Speaker 30: things from that section and then.

01:10:31 Speaker 30: Things from that section in the

01:10:33 Speaker 30: next slides. I guess what I

01:10:36 Speaker 30: would say. So there's some thanks

01:10:38 Speaker 30: to go around here. So with

01:10:40 Speaker 30: respect to this next slide, I'll

01:10:42 Speaker 30: just extend my thanks to the

01:10:45 Speaker 30: Institute of Southern Georgian Bay. They

01:10:47 Speaker 30: have created the space for a

01:10:50 Speaker 30: lot of the learning and discussion

01:10:53 Speaker 30: to happen over the past years,

01:10:54 Speaker 30: and this work reflects work coming

01:10:56 Speaker 30: from that table together with

01:10:59 Speaker 30: municipal staff and council members who

01:11:00 Speaker 30: are often attending those meetings as

01:11:04 Speaker 30: well. So the whole community approach.

01:11:05 Speaker 30: If you've had a presentation at

01:11:08 Speaker 30: your local council by myself and

01:11:10 Speaker 30: Mary Ellen Steiner from the Institute,

01:11:12 Speaker 30: this may sound familiar. But I

01:11:14 Speaker 30: think we've been working to refine

01:11:16 Speaker 30: the wording and understandings here, and

01:11:19 Speaker 30: so we just highlight the whole

01:11:21 Speaker 30: community approach as a framing

01:11:24 Speaker 30: for how we might work together,

01:11:26 Speaker 30: and highlighting certain areas of focus

01:11:28 Speaker 30: for local government sector as well

01:11:30 Speaker 30: as for community partners. And so

01:11:31 Speaker 30: on the local government focus side,

01:11:33 Speaker 30: what that learning and network network

01:11:35 Speaker 30: group has determined is really, you

01:11:37 Speaker 30: know, we would be looking to

01:11:40 Speaker 30: local government to target the policy

01:11:43 Speaker 30: permissions and incentives towards affordable and

01:11:44 Speaker 30: non-market housing to fill those gaps

01:11:47 Speaker 30: in our supply. We would be

01:11:48 Speaker 30: looking at establishing and maintaining good

01:11:51 Speaker 30: regional communication, and I think around

01:11:53 Speaker 30: that table there is interest what

01:11:55 Speaker 30: that could look like. Could that

01:11:57 Speaker 30: be, for example, a future coordination

01:11:58 Speaker 30: table on a regional basis to

01:12:00 Speaker 30: do? that work, local government focus

01:12:03 Speaker 30: again would also be focused around

01:12:05 Speaker 30: municipal engagement around community wealth and

01:12:07 Speaker 30: social finance approaches. And so, I

01:12:08 Speaker 30: think it's a little out of

01:12:11 Speaker 30: our direct wheelhouse, but it certainly

01:12:12 Speaker 30: is adjacent. And I'll speak a

01:12:14 Speaker 30: little bit about where that sector

01:12:15 Speaker 30: is going. This really speaks to

01:12:18 Speaker 30: the idea that municipalities would be

01:12:22 Speaker 30: engaged in learning about these emerging

01:12:24 Speaker 30: techniques and determining how we might

01:12:27 Speaker 30: partner or bring some. of them

01:12:29 Speaker 30: into our organisations, and then a

01:12:31 Speaker 30: development of a cohesive regional perspective

01:12:34 Speaker 30: on workforce housing and associated

01:12:36 Speaker 30: needs and approaches. And so I

01:12:39 Speaker 30: think there we've certainly had lots

01:12:42 Speaker 30: of discussion around workforce housing, and

01:12:43 Speaker 30: I know previous on my course

01:12:47 Speaker 30: have been some reports by

01:12:48 Speaker 30: others, Mountain Village Association, for example.

01:12:50 Speaker 30: I think this is emerging as

01:12:52 Speaker 30: as one of those things where

01:12:54 Speaker 30: we maybe have some further work

01:12:57 Speaker 30: to articulate how we envision that

01:12:59 Speaker 30: flowing, and then our community partners

01:13:02 Speaker 30: can join us. I am on

01:13:04 Speaker 30: work. I'll give a little more

01:13:06 Speaker 30: clarity. On the community side, we

01:13:08 Speaker 30: are looking at community partners focused

01:13:11 Speaker 30: around building of local organisations and

01:13:14 Speaker 30: functions to support affordable housing at

01:13:15 Speaker 30: greater scale. And looking at examples

01:13:17 Speaker 30: from across Canada, we are seeing

01:13:19 Speaker 30: emerging vehicles such as land trusts

01:13:21 Speaker 30: and community development corporations to support

01:13:23 Speaker 30: in that work. Again, municipalities are

01:13:25 Speaker 30: not always resourced or or tools.

01:13:27 Speaker 30: to to do that work, and

01:13:29 Speaker 30: so those partners could assist. Linking

01:13:32 Speaker 30: of non-market housing creators via community

01:13:33 Speaker 30: practice, and so that is in

01:13:36 Speaker 30: place, and we do have those

01:13:39 Speaker 30: folks already connecting through some of

01:13:41 Speaker 30: those institute tables. Support for local

01:13:43 Speaker 30: citizens groups to support affordable housing

01:13:46 Speaker 30: creation and municipal efforts. So offering

01:13:49 Speaker 30: some education, and we have seen

01:13:51 Speaker 30: some spinoff interest in some of

01:13:53 Speaker 30: the local communities around that institute

01:13:55 Speaker 30: table, and I think. those folks

01:13:56 Speaker 30: are helping to to encourage that

01:13:58 Speaker 30: change in consideration at the local

01:13:59 Speaker 30: level as well. We want to

01:14:01 Speaker 30: make sure I think that folks

01:14:03 Speaker 30: are informed as well, bringing good

01:14:08 Speaker 30: information and asking for reasonable things

01:14:09 Speaker 30: as well around those tables. So

01:14:10 Speaker 30: offering that support I think is

01:14:11 Speaker 30: important. And then preparation of a

01:14:12 Speaker 30: regional community wealth and social finance

01:14:14 Speaker 30: strategy. So this is work that

01:14:16 Speaker 30: the institute has on the horizon,

01:14:18 Speaker 30: and I think we could certainly

01:14:20 Speaker 30: be. participating in some of those

01:14:23 Speaker 30: conversations as they further explore how

01:14:26 Speaker 30: can we lend, spend, and invest

01:14:29 Speaker 30: for greatest community benefit. And what

01:14:30 Speaker 30: I've just noted in the report

01:14:33 Speaker 30: is that you know I think

01:14:35 Speaker 30: following the housing need assessment, it

01:14:37 Speaker 30: would be reasonable for us

01:14:39 Speaker 30: to consider what are the needs

01:14:43 Speaker 30: that perhaps could be embedded within

01:14:45 Speaker 30: the housing actually more formally at

01:14:48 Speaker 30: the table. It's a worthy discussion

01:14:51 Speaker 30: to come in around. This. one

01:14:52 Speaker 30: here, and so perhaps you've seen

01:14:54 Speaker 30: this out in the world, but

01:14:55 Speaker 30: if not, I would be happy

01:14:57 Speaker 30: to be the first one to

01:14:58 Speaker 30: tell you that we have seen

01:15:00 Speaker 30: a community partner really take up

01:15:01 Speaker 30: that opportunity to engage, and so

01:15:03 Speaker 30: we have seen just last week

01:15:06 Speaker 30: an announcement by Community Foundation Great

01:15:08 Speaker 30: Bruce. They are working now to

01:15:10 Speaker 30: incubate Great Bruce Community Development Corporation,

01:15:12 Speaker 30: and they have, and I've

01:15:14 Speaker 30: outlined in the report what they

01:15:16 Speaker 30: envision that CDC could do. So

01:15:18 Speaker 30: they are looking at. some of

01:15:20 Speaker 30: that mentorship for community housing projects,

01:15:22 Speaker 30: exploring social finance tools like community

01:15:23 Speaker 30: bonds, initiating development and protection of

01:15:26 Speaker 30: affordable housing in a broad and

01:15:28 Speaker 30: non-competitive manner, and creating that space

01:15:31 Speaker 30: for further collabouration. And so, you

01:15:32 Speaker 30: know, I just I wanted to

01:15:34 Speaker 30: highlight that as an example, and

01:15:40 Speaker 30: thanks so much to Stuart Reed,

01:15:44 Speaker 30: their executive director, for working with

01:15:45 Speaker 30: me to coordinate the timing on

01:15:48 Speaker 30: this, so that we could make

01:15:50 Speaker 30: sure to share this good information

01:15:52 Speaker 30: through this report without. stealing their

01:15:55 Speaker 30: thunder for the announcement last week.

01:15:57 Speaker 30: And what I would just highlight

01:15:58 Speaker 30: here is that they have hired

01:16:01 Speaker 30: a strategic initiatives consultant on housing.

01:16:03 Speaker 30: This individual does have experience with

01:16:06 Speaker 30: community bonds and has worked with

01:16:08 Speaker 30: Habitat in wealth previously in setting

01:16:11 Speaker 30: up their programmemes. So we're bringing

01:16:16 Speaker 30: some of these new skills into

01:16:18 Speaker 30: the area through this move. They'll

01:16:21 Speaker 30: start slow and small and seek

01:16:23 Speaker 30: to grow sustainably and organically. But

01:16:24 Speaker 30: we've we've got some help into

01:16:27 Speaker 30: We've got some help in terms

01:16:29 Speaker 30: of of looking at that housing

01:16:34 Speaker 30: creation. Okay, and then further with

01:16:36 Speaker 30: respect to to the nonprofit sector,

01:16:37 Speaker 30: it's kind of an evolution of

01:16:38 Speaker 30: that conversation is achieving scale for

01:16:40 Speaker 30: housing creation, and so we've included

01:16:42 Speaker 30: a section of the report around

01:16:45 Speaker 30: this. What I would note is

01:16:47 Speaker 30: that so we are just kind

01:16:52 Speaker 30: of watching the rollout of the

01:16:55 Speaker 30: Build Canada Homes programme. at the

01:16:58 Speaker 30: federal level, so they are they

01:17:00 Speaker 30: are changing approach under under this

01:17:02 Speaker 30: new government with respect to how

01:17:04 Speaker 30: funding opportunities will be provided for

01:17:06 Speaker 30: housing creation, affordable housing creation. Looking

01:17:08 Speaker 30: at their initial documents and the

01:17:10 Speaker 30: sounding guide that they've shared, we

01:17:12 Speaker 30: do understand that there is their

01:17:15 Speaker 30: intention to gradually move to a

01:17:18 Speaker 30: system where they are granting for

01:17:20 Speaker 30: large scale projects or portfolios of

01:17:22 Speaker 30: projects as. opposed to individual one-off

01:17:24 Speaker 30: applications. And so, I think, again,

01:17:25 Speaker 30: just looking with an eye to

01:17:27 Speaker 30: the future of how might we

01:17:29 Speaker 30: need to position ourselves to engage

01:17:33 Speaker 30: with these funding opportunities on the

01:17:35 Speaker 30: go forward? I think we're recognizing

01:17:36 Speaker 30: that there may be some some

01:17:40 Speaker 30: necessity for a little amalgamation or

01:17:43 Speaker 30: or working together to agglomerate some

01:17:44 Speaker 30: of those projects under one portfolio

01:17:45 Speaker 30: or a series. Portfolio or series

01:17:48 Speaker 30: of projects under one application, and

01:17:50 Speaker 30: so I think really just kind

01:17:55 Speaker 30: of seeding that idea here that

01:17:58 Speaker 30: there will be some further conversations

01:17:59 Speaker 30: happen around that. We're not one

01:18:02 Speaker 30: hundred percent sure how that funding

01:18:07 Speaker 30: will evolve, but actually, just in

01:18:09 Speaker 30: coordination with the House National Housing

01:18:13 Speaker 30: Day, they have just now this

01:18:14 Speaker 30: past weekend released the investment policy

01:18:15 Speaker 30: framework for both Canada Homes. So

01:18:17 Speaker 30: I think everyone's just digesting that

01:18:20 Speaker 30: at this moment in time. It

01:18:22 Speaker 30: does too speak to that. gradual

01:18:25 Speaker 30: transition towards scale, so just a

01:18:26 Speaker 30: going consideration for us, and and

01:18:28 Speaker 30: we do also just within that

01:18:30 Speaker 30: section of the report speak a

01:18:32 Speaker 30: little bit to the existing provincial

01:18:34 Speaker 30: funding opportunities as well. There has

01:18:36 Speaker 30: been some advocacy where as they

01:18:40 Speaker 30: are considering how those might be

01:18:42 Speaker 30: retooled to better serve areas in

01:18:44 Speaker 30: rural Ontario like ours. So we'll

01:18:46 Speaker 30: see where that goes. Okay, and

01:18:49 Speaker 30: then. finally, just the second component

01:18:50 Speaker 30: of that last half of the

01:18:52 Speaker 30: report speaks to finance innovation for

01:18:55 Speaker 30: affordable housing. Lost my notes. There

01:18:56 Speaker 30: we go. So with respect to

01:18:58 Speaker 30: this section of the report, we

01:18:59 Speaker 30: really just wanted to kind of

01:19:02 Speaker 30: highlight some of the work that

01:19:04 Speaker 30: is happening within the sector across

01:19:07 Speaker 30: Canada. So this is homework, if

01:19:10 Speaker 30: you will, to poke around on

01:19:11 Speaker 30: some of those linked resources. to

01:19:14 Speaker 30: get a flavour of what is

01:19:16 Speaker 30: happening, kind of on that learning

01:19:19 Speaker 30: edge of social finance innovation, and

01:19:20 Speaker 30: what we we're seeing and what's

01:19:24 Speaker 30: been included within that report is

01:19:26 Speaker 30: a highlight on some of those

01:19:28 Speaker 30: smaller financial opportunities. So community bond

01:19:30 Speaker 30: initiatives, and I've highlighted an Assiniboia

01:19:33 Speaker 30: example, Redwood Park Communities, as as

01:19:36 Speaker 30: one with an open bond campaign.

01:19:38 Speaker 30: I had an opportunity to to

01:19:41 Speaker 30: sit with their fund manager and

01:19:42 Speaker 30: hear about how they've actually structured

01:19:45 Speaker 30: that campaign. and the different

01:19:47 Speaker 30: tranches within the bond offering and

01:19:49 Speaker 30: the risk profiles of the management

01:19:51 Speaker 30: and it's quite interesting and I

01:19:53 Speaker 30: think there's a lot of opportunity

01:19:54 Speaker 30: there to to set those up

01:19:56 Speaker 30: and we're seeing that happen again

01:19:59 Speaker 30: across Canada. In addition to those

01:20:02 Speaker 30: smaller scale project specific tools, we're

01:20:04 Speaker 30: also seeing the establishment of larger

01:20:05 Speaker 30: revolving funds that are targeted towards

01:20:07 Speaker 30: housing as well. And so I've

01:20:09 Speaker 30: highlighted the Catch Fund, which grew

01:20:12 Speaker 30: from a innovation lab in. Hamilton

01:20:13 Speaker 30: around their LRT expansion, and really

01:20:16 Speaker 30: looks at bringing together different types

01:20:17 Speaker 30: of capital and investors to create

01:20:18 Speaker 30: a revolving fund that can create

01:20:24 Speaker 30: seed funding and bridge financing for

01:20:26 Speaker 08: community housing creators. And I think

01:20:28 Speaker 08: with this one, again looking out

01:20:30 Speaker 08: into the horizon, what's possible. We

01:20:32 Speaker 08: do have a lot of work

01:20:34 Speaker 08: happening around the energy frontier. Various

01:20:36 Speaker 08: institutional and industrial partners with respect

01:20:38 Speaker 08: to that. I know certainly Bruce

01:20:39 Speaker 08: County is is thinking about the

01:20:41 Speaker 31: housing issues as well, and then

01:20:45 Speaker 31: we have this local CDC, and

01:20:48 Speaker 31: so I could envision this being

01:20:50 Speaker 31: something potentially in our future, maybe

01:20:52 Speaker 31: not right away, but but longer

01:20:55 Speaker 31: term in terms of innovation. So

01:20:57 Speaker 31: just again trying to see those

01:20:58 Speaker 31: ideas bring everybody along with that

01:21:00 Speaker 31: learning. So I'll leave I'll leave

01:21:05 Speaker 31: it there today. Certainly happy to

01:21:09 Speaker 32: speak to any questions that may

01:21:10 Speaker 32: arise, and really happy to do

01:21:14 Speaker 32: all of the additional learning that.

01:21:15 Speaker 32: All of this additional learning that

01:21:17 Speaker 32: will be coming along as things

01:21:19 Speaker 19: evolve. Thanks very much. Thank you.

01:21:23 Speaker 19: Lots in the report, and also

01:21:26 Speaker 19: with what you've just provided for

01:21:28 Speaker 19: us verbally. So I'll just wait

01:21:32 Speaker 19: till the virtual members come back

01:21:33 Speaker 19: on my screen here, and we'll

01:21:35 Speaker 19: open up for questions. We'll begin

01:21:38 Speaker 19: with the deputy warden. Thank you,

01:21:40 Speaker 19: Madam Warden, and thank you, Liz,

01:21:41 Speaker 19: for the report and the update.

01:21:44 Speaker 19: I concur with Councillor Body that

01:21:46 Speaker 19: we don't. tutor on horn enough

01:21:49 Speaker 19: about the work that is being

01:21:51 Speaker 19: done and potentially being done to

01:21:54 Speaker 19: house more people affordably here in

01:21:59 Speaker 19: Gregg County. So I think this

01:22:00 Speaker 19: report goes a long way to

01:22:03 Speaker 19: do that. Thank you very much.

01:22:05 Speaker 19: Okay. Thank you. Other comments or

01:22:08 Speaker 30: questions? I will go to Councillor

01:22:10 Speaker 30: Kieveny, and then we'll go to

01:22:11 Speaker 30: Councillor Gregg. Thank you, Madam Warden,

01:22:14 Speaker 30: and Liz. What an amazing report!

01:22:16 Speaker 30: Thank you for all of your

01:22:19 Speaker 30: efforts in this regard. I note

01:22:21 Speaker 30: through the conversations with the folks

01:22:23 Speaker 30: at the institute that I know

01:22:24 Speaker 30: there's an importance attached to local

01:22:26 Speaker 30: affordable housing task forces. Some of

01:22:27 Speaker 30: us have them, and some of

01:22:29 Speaker 30: us don't. And with the exceptional

01:22:31 Speaker 30: work that's happening at the county

01:22:33 Speaker 30: and through the Southern Georgian Bay

01:22:36 Speaker 30: Institute, and in particular the Social

01:22:37 Speaker 30: Finance Group, I'm. wondering if you

01:22:40 Speaker 30: feel there is still a necessity

01:22:42 Speaker 30: for each community to have its

01:22:43 Speaker 30: own task force to be able

01:22:45 Speaker 30: to contribute locally to the to

01:22:47 Speaker 30: the conversation at this level. Thank

01:22:49 Speaker 30: you very much, and through you,

01:22:51 Speaker 30: Madam Warden. So, you know, I

01:22:53 Speaker 30: I I think it's important to

01:22:56 Speaker 30: have a space to have conversations

01:22:57 Speaker 30: about what we're we're going to

01:22:59 Speaker 30: do, bringing in some of this

01:23:01 Speaker 30: information for learning. translating that into

01:23:03 Speaker 30: tasks, assigning those tasks to individuals

01:23:05 Speaker 30: to be completed. I think about

01:23:07 Speaker 30: everything that the Collingwood Affordable Housing

01:23:09 Speaker 30: Task Force has achieved over the

01:23:10 Speaker 30: past number of years, and if

01:23:13 Speaker 30: you're not familiar, check out their

01:23:15 Speaker 30: website. They've got a whole lot

01:23:16 Speaker 30: going on. So, you know, I

01:23:18 Speaker 30: I think there I think there

01:23:21 Speaker 30: is certainly interest and a function

01:23:25 Speaker 30: for those committees. I don't know,

01:23:28 Speaker 30: you know, I think thinking to

01:23:31 Speaker 30: that idea of the regional coordination

01:23:34 Speaker 30: and collabouration. Perhaps there's a circumstance

01:23:36 Speaker 33: in the future where we're moving

01:23:38 Speaker 33: to more of a regional table.

01:23:39 Speaker 33: I don't necessarily think that will

01:23:40 Speaker 33: replace the need to have some

01:23:42 Speaker 33: concerted effort and space to have

01:23:45 Speaker 33: those conversations locally, but that could

01:23:47 Speaker 33: be an evolution. In the meantime,

01:23:49 Speaker 33: without kind of that broader coordination

01:23:54 Speaker 33: table, I do think there's value

01:23:56 Speaker 33: to those. But of course, it's

01:23:58 Speaker 33: a local discussion with respect to

01:24:00 Speaker 33: whether you have the resources to

01:24:02 Speaker 33: to put that in place. But

01:24:03 Speaker 33: yeah, I would say that having

01:24:04 Speaker 33: that. space and making that time

01:24:07 Speaker 33: to have those conversations would be

01:24:09 Speaker 33: important to this board at this

01:24:11 Speaker 33: moment. A lot of it is

01:24:13 Speaker 33: on that learning edge, so I

01:24:14 Speaker 33: think creating that space for those

01:24:16 Speaker 33: conversations is important. Thank you, Councillor

01:24:18 Speaker 33: Greg. Thank you, and thanks for

01:24:19 Speaker 33: the extensive report, Liz. It's a

01:24:20 Speaker 33: good update. I guess the background

01:24:22 Speaker 33: to my question, if there there

01:24:23 Speaker 33: is one, but we are just

01:24:24 Speaker 33: undertaking. a new official plan and

01:24:25 Speaker 33: zoning update in Owen Sound right

01:24:27 Speaker 33: now. So as part of preparing

01:24:29 Speaker 33: for that Monday night, I was

01:24:30 Speaker 33: just running some numbers because we

01:24:32 Speaker 33: get a lot of advocacy from

01:24:34 Speaker 33: a certain demographic about the affordable

01:24:35 Speaker 33: housing initiatives, and everyone seems to

01:24:37 Speaker 33: fall into a certain. They're retired,

01:24:38 Speaker 33: they own their own homes, and

01:24:41 Speaker 33: they're speaking for young people. If

01:24:43 Speaker 33: you go to a restaurant and

01:24:45 Speaker 33: you just engage a bunch of

01:24:48 Speaker 33: young people, young people want the

01:24:49 Speaker 33: same opportunity. Young people want the

01:24:51 Speaker 33: same opportunities that that we have.

01:24:53 Speaker 33: If you you talk to them,

01:24:55 Speaker 33: they want a little bit of

01:24:58 Speaker 33: yard, maybe their own driveway to

01:25:00 Speaker 33: pull into. This is what they're

01:25:01 Speaker 33: wishing for. So in in terms

01:25:03 Speaker 33: of preparing for Monday, you know,

01:25:07 Speaker 33: if they go out and you

01:25:09 Speaker 33: just take a look at an

01:25:10 Speaker 33: average house right now, a starter

01:25:12 Speaker 33: home four hundred and fifty thousand,

01:25:17 Speaker 33: they're going to need four hundred

01:25:20 Speaker 33: twenty five thousand dollars mortgage. You

01:25:22 Speaker 33: run the numbers in that, which

01:25:26 Speaker 33: I did. That's eleven hundred two

01:25:28 Speaker 33: dollars a month at a four

01:25:31 Speaker 33: sixty nine rate for five years,

01:25:33 Speaker 33: and over the first five. years,

01:25:36 Speaker 33: they paid a hundred thousand in

01:25:39 Speaker 33: interest. So when they renew, they

01:25:43 Speaker 33: still have three seventy five. You

01:25:47 Speaker 33: you put thirty percent on that.

01:25:50 Speaker 33: That's ninety seven thousand dollars a

01:25:53 Speaker 33: year. This needed to sustain that

01:25:54 Speaker 33: thirty thousand dollar payment for their

01:25:57 Speaker 33: mortgage. We haven't talked about insurance.

01:26:00 Speaker 33: We haven't talked about property taxes

01:26:02 Speaker 33: and the plethora of other costs

01:26:03 Speaker 33: that come along with that. We

01:26:04 Speaker 33: need to update our census data.

01:26:06 Speaker 33: I think the most recent one

01:26:09 Speaker 33: I see is twenty one, and.

01:26:12 Speaker 33: Twenty-one, and in terms of an

01:26:15 Speaker 33: average or medium household income in

01:26:18 Speaker 33: Gray County, I think, or or

01:26:20 Speaker 33: Oronson, it could be wrong, but

01:26:24 Speaker 33: they're pretty close. Is either seventy-one

01:26:25 Speaker 33: or seventy-seven thousand dollars? That's the

01:26:28 Speaker 33: average household income. Now that's skewed

01:26:30 Speaker 33: because you're taking in fixed-income seniors

01:26:32 Speaker 33: and and so forth. But it's

01:26:33 Speaker 33: the average young person in our

01:26:35 Speaker 33: communities is not over a hundred

01:26:40 Speaker 33: thousand dollars. The the data doesn't

01:26:41 Speaker 33: show that. And when you're working

01:26:44 Speaker 33: on on this, are the are

01:26:46 Speaker 33: the efforts only responding to the

01:26:50 Speaker 33: affordable housing, or do you do

01:26:51 Speaker 33: you examine it a little bigger

01:26:56 Speaker 33: than than just the affordable housing

01:26:59 Speaker 33: component? Because I think in in

01:27:00 Speaker 33: Olmsted, maybe our numbers were 17

01:27:01 Speaker 33: of new apartments were meeting criteria,

01:27:04 Speaker 33: and if we want to work

01:27:06 Speaker 33: on behalf of some of the

01:27:10 Speaker 33: people in the community that just

01:27:11 Speaker 33: want to have their own house

01:27:12 Speaker 33: and have that opportunity, when you

01:27:13 Speaker 33: put in that, like an actual

01:27:16 Speaker 33: discretionary or disposable income, like after

01:27:17 Speaker 33: tax, they're like fifty percent of

01:27:20 Speaker 33: their income or greater, and we

01:27:22 Speaker 33: haven't talked about property taxes, insurance,

01:27:25 Speaker 33: like the essentials yet. So I

01:27:26 Speaker 33: feel like they're left out, and

01:27:29 Speaker 33: we're at we're doing a lot.

01:27:32 Speaker 33: of advocating for some of the

01:27:35 Speaker 33: market that we are are needing

01:27:37 Speaker 33: to meet the need for, and

01:27:38 Speaker 33: we are building new apartments. But

01:27:40 Speaker 33: at times I'm afraid we're we're

01:27:41 Speaker 33: we're putting a lot of efforts

01:27:44 Speaker 33: here, and we're not recognizing that

01:27:46 Speaker 33: still when you build an apartment,

01:27:48 Speaker 33: there's probably $300 minimum a month.

01:27:52 Speaker 33: I know, I know, in Salem,

01:27:55 Speaker 33: on $200,000 assessment, they're paying two.

01:27:58 Speaker 33: To three thousand a month or

01:28:00 Speaker 33: a year in property taxes, and

01:28:01 Speaker 33: everyone has to pay their fair

01:28:04 Speaker 33: share. So that unit's got, you

01:28:06 Speaker 33: know, three hundred dollars a month,

01:28:08 Speaker 33: approximately in taxes. It's got utilities.

01:28:10 Speaker 33: I just got off the phone

01:28:12 Speaker 33: about a week and a half

01:28:13 Speaker 33: ago with one of the large

01:28:17 Speaker 33: builders, and we're talking about every

01:28:20 Speaker 33: seven years they have to budget

01:28:23 Speaker 33: for appliance replacement. So all these

01:28:25 Speaker 33: costs have to go into that

01:28:26 Speaker 33: unit. The general taxpayer can't pick.

01:28:29 Speaker 30: that up. So there's a there's

01:28:32 Speaker 30: when you're talking about affordable housing,

01:28:34 Speaker 30: you already get to fourteen or

01:28:36 Speaker 30: fifteen hundred dollars really quickly, and

01:28:38 Speaker 30: we're talking about the capital needs

01:28:40 Speaker 30: that have to be put aside

01:28:42 Speaker 30: to do the renovations every so.

01:28:44 Speaker 30: And we do that with our

01:28:47 Speaker 30: own housing here, so we see

01:28:51 Speaker 30: it. I'm just wondering then, can

01:28:53 Speaker 30: you speak to how you do

01:28:54 Speaker 30: interpret those real life costs into

01:28:56 Speaker 30: your studies? and that missing middle

01:28:58 Speaker 30: that sometimes is out there, that

01:29:01 Speaker 30: I feel like the demographics. Because

01:29:03 Speaker 30: all I have to work off

01:29:05 Speaker 30: is, I only have the numbers,

01:29:07 Speaker 30: the data needs updated, but we

01:29:09 Speaker 30: have to work off that data

01:29:11 Speaker 30: and respond to a lot of

01:29:13 Speaker 30: the segment and their population that

01:29:14 Speaker 30: just wants that same opportunity that

01:29:16 Speaker 30: we had. Thank you, Andrew, Monday

01:29:19 Speaker 30: morning. Excellent question. Thank you so

01:29:24 Speaker 30: much for that. So. Before that,

01:29:27 Speaker 30: so so just I'll pick up

01:29:28 Speaker 30: a couple of the data pieces

01:29:30 Speaker 30: and then can respond specifically to

01:29:34 Speaker 30: the question asked. So you're right.

01:29:37 Speaker 30: So median household income for Gray

01:29:38 Speaker 30: County is about seventy-eight thousand dollars

01:29:39 Speaker 30: a year. So that is a

01:29:41 Speaker 30: data set that is amalgamated for

01:29:45 Speaker 30: both renters and owners. Um, so

01:29:49 Speaker 30: if you actually split out those

01:29:51 Speaker 30: populations, the income profiles are very

01:29:52 Speaker 30: different. Um, so I think median

01:29:53 Speaker 30: owner data. would probably see your

01:29:56 Speaker 30: household income somewhere close to about

01:29:57 Speaker 30: ninety thousand dollars a year. Whereas,

01:30:00 Speaker 30: if you're looking across that on

01:30:02 Speaker 30: a tenant basis, you can essentially

01:30:05 Speaker 30: cut that median seventy-eight, I don't

01:30:07 Speaker 30: know, sixty percent. So, like I,

01:30:09 Speaker 30: I think in Newburgh, for example,

01:30:12 Speaker 30: the median rent range is about

01:30:14 Speaker 30: forty-six thousand dollars a year. So,

01:30:16 Speaker 30: so the I think that's why

01:30:19 Speaker 30: we're talking so much around kind

01:30:22 Speaker 30: of the rental component because the

01:30:24 Speaker 30: need is very acute. Those numbers

01:30:26 Speaker 30: really don't work. for for households,

01:30:27 Speaker 30: with tenant households, but I think

01:30:29 Speaker 30: you're right. That certainly, what we're

01:30:33 Speaker 30: seeing come on in terms of

01:30:35 Speaker 30: new product for ownership housing, it's

01:30:37 Speaker 30: it's quite a bit above in

01:30:38 Speaker 30: terms of carrying costs. What we

01:30:40 Speaker 30: would see kind of affordable to

01:30:41 Speaker 30: that maybe in households or even

01:30:43 Speaker 30: households in the sixth and seventh

01:30:44 Speaker 30: deciles of household income. So we

01:30:46 Speaker 30: are seeing that. Kind of that

01:30:48 Speaker 30: expectation. I think there's going to

01:30:50 Speaker 30: be a lot of work in

01:30:52 Speaker 30: order for us to deliver on

01:30:54 Speaker 30: that expectation that the population or

01:30:56 Speaker 30: the the youth coming up would

01:30:59 Speaker 30: have those same opportunities. The federal

01:31:02 Speaker 30: government does highlight that in some

01:31:05 Speaker 30: of their foresight reporting, kind of

01:31:08 Speaker 30: speaking around the risks to social

01:31:09 Speaker 30: mobility if we see kind of

01:31:13 Speaker 30: existing trends going forward. And I

01:31:15 Speaker 30: think the income side of the

01:31:16 Speaker 30: equation is is definitely something that