Grey County Committee of the Whole Meeting Transcript — December 5, 2025

00:00:23 Speaker 01: Thank you. We have come out

00:00:24 Speaker 01: of closed session, and I can

00:00:25 Speaker 01: report that the committee, the whole,

00:00:27 Speaker 01: discussed information on labour relations or

00:00:29 Speaker 01: employee negotiations. in closed session related

00:00:32 Speaker 01: to union negotiations. With that, we

00:00:35 Speaker 01: have a recommended motion that the

00:00:36 Speaker 01: 2026 budget and 2027 projected budget

00:00:39 Speaker 01: be adjusted to incorporate 227,000 and

00:00:41 Speaker 01: 235,000, respectively, from the one-time funding

00:00:46 Speaker 01: reserve for the Paramedics Services Department.

00:00:49 Speaker 01: May I ask for a mover?

00:00:50 Speaker 01: Moved by Councillor Dobrin, seconded by

00:00:52 Speaker 01: Councillor Patterson. Any discussion? All those

00:00:55 Speaker 01: in favour? And that motion is

00:00:58 Speaker 01: carried. At this point in time,

00:01:00 Speaker 01: we will call a ten-minute break.

00:01:01 Speaker 01: So, if we could reconvene at

00:01:03 Speaker 01: eleven twenty-five, we will carry on

00:01:05 Speaker 01: with the agenda. Thank you. Sorry,

00:01:12 Speaker 01: thirty-five. Eleven thirty-five. Not that quick

00:01:15 Speaker 01: of a break. Yeah. If I

00:15:03 Speaker 01: could just please invite our committee,

00:15:05 Speaker 01: the whole members, back to the

00:15:06 Speaker 01: horseshoe. Okay, so we are reconvening,

00:15:37 Speaker 01: and we have been in closed

00:15:39 Speaker 01: session. We reported out. We have

00:15:41 Speaker 01: just come back from. our break,

00:15:42 Speaker 01: and we are now then going

00:15:43 Speaker 01: to be continuing on slide thirty-seven

00:15:46 Speaker 01: and thirty-eight. Well, thirty-seven is just

00:15:48 Speaker 01: the introduction, so slide thirty-eight, and

00:15:51 Speaker 01: Director Spicer, we look back to

00:15:53 Speaker 01: you. Thank you very much, and

00:16:09 Speaker 01: I just like to give. a

00:16:10 Speaker 01: bit of an update. So, before

00:16:13 Speaker 02: the closed session, I had mentioned

00:16:15 Speaker 03: that with the the opportunities that

00:16:20 Speaker 03: we mentioned about reducing the divesture

00:16:22 Speaker 03: payments and increasing the forestry revenue,

00:16:25 Speaker 03: that would reduce the current residential

00:16:27 Speaker 03: rate from six point six eight

00:16:29 Speaker 03: percent increase to five point six

00:16:31 Speaker 03: one. And with the the motion

00:16:34 Speaker 03: that was passed when we came

00:16:36 Speaker 03: out of close. Out of closed,

00:16:42 Speaker 03: that reduces the the levy increase

00:16:43 Speaker 03: to five point three three percent.

00:16:48 Speaker 03: Next, we'll talk about the supported

00:16:53 Speaker 03: recommendations. So, at the November twenty

00:16:55 Speaker 03: sixth, twenty twenty five, Budget and

00:16:57 Speaker 03: Finance Committee, there were items that

00:16:59 Speaker 03: were referred to County Council for

00:17:01 Speaker 03: further discussion, as the minutes from

00:17:03 Speaker 03: that meeting won't pass until next

00:17:06 Speaker 03: week on the eleventh. There were

00:17:07 Speaker 03: a few things that. were discussed,

00:17:10 Speaker 03: and there's social pinpoint software, or

00:17:13 Speaker 03: and it's a a levy requirement

00:17:16 Speaker 03: of thirty thousand dollars, a proposed

00:17:18 Speaker 03: asset management contribution increase of one

00:17:20 Speaker 03: million five hundred forty one thousand

00:17:22 Speaker 03: eight hundred dollars, and there was

00:17:25 Speaker 03: discussion about the GTR fare increase.

00:17:26 Speaker 03: So currently, that fare is five

00:17:28 Speaker 03: dollars a ride, including HST. If

00:17:32 Speaker 03: we increased it by a dollar,

00:17:34 Speaker 03: this would result in an approximate

00:17:35 Speaker 03: increase in revenue of about forty.

00:17:38 Speaker 03: eight hundred dollars for eight months,

00:17:40 Speaker 03: just because of you know there's

00:17:43 Speaker 03: the one small route that's going

00:17:45 Speaker 03: from Dundalk to Orangeville, and based

00:17:47 Speaker 03: on what we're currently seeing in

00:17:50 Speaker 03: ridership. So those were the the

00:17:52 Speaker 03: three areas that they wanted referred

00:17:56 Speaker 03: back to the meeting today. And

00:17:59 Speaker 03: the the next slide is about

00:18:01 Speaker 03: social pinpoint, and I'll let Rob

00:18:03 Speaker 03: speak to this as it's within

00:18:17 Speaker 03: his budget. Thank you, Mary Lou,

00:18:19 Speaker 03: and through you, Madam Warden. Yeah,

00:18:20 Speaker 02: I just was going to speak

00:18:21 Speaker 04: to you a little bit about

00:18:24 Speaker 04: Social Pinpoint this morning and what

00:18:25 Speaker 04: Social Pinpoint is. Some of you

00:18:27 Speaker 04: will know because you have it

00:18:29 Speaker 04: at your municipality. I think Great

00:18:31 Speaker 04: Highlands is currently operating it. This

00:18:34 Speaker 04: is a digital engagement. platform, and

00:18:37 Speaker 04: what this platform does essentially is

00:18:41 Speaker 04: it provides the tools to increase

00:18:44 Speaker 04: the accessibility and ease of engagement

00:18:48 Speaker 04: with the community by bringing an

00:18:50 Speaker 04: online website to the people, so

00:18:52 Speaker 04: that we can better engage with

00:18:54 Speaker 04: them and get their input and

00:18:56 Speaker 04: inform them on projects and services

00:18:58 Speaker 04: that we are delivering to the

00:19:00 Speaker 04: community, so that they can understand

00:19:04 Speaker 04: them better and provide input. on

00:19:07 Speaker 04: those services. We've been exploring the

00:19:11 Speaker 04: possibility of building a regional platform

00:19:14 Speaker 04: for digital engagement. We and that's

00:19:16 Speaker 04: why we are looking at social

00:19:18 Speaker 04: pinpoint specifically. It's somewhat unique in

00:19:19 Speaker 04: that it would allow there to

00:19:21 Speaker 04: be kind of a gray

00:19:25 Speaker 04: county hub that interconnects with local

00:19:26 Speaker 04: municipal engagement sites as well, so

00:19:28 Speaker 04: that our residents could engage on

00:19:30 Speaker 04: both upper tier and lower tier.

00:19:33 Speaker 04: matters all in one centralized place.

00:19:35 Speaker 04: These initial conversations have been going

00:19:38 Speaker 04: on with the local CAOs group

00:19:39 Speaker 04: as well. We've had some demos

00:19:41 Speaker 04: with local municipal staff so that

00:19:42 Speaker 04: they could see that as well

00:19:44 Speaker 04: and see the way that an

00:19:48 Speaker 04: integrated programme could work together. And

00:19:50 Speaker 04: really, the the benefits of these

00:19:52 Speaker 04: platforms for us in this room

00:19:55 Speaker 04: is that it gives us data

00:19:58 Speaker 04: and information to better inform decision

00:20:01 Speaker 04: making around. the the horseshoe or

00:20:03 Speaker 04: at at the management level, because

00:20:05 Speaker 04: we can see what matters most

00:20:06 Speaker 04: to people and the data that

00:20:08 Speaker 04: comes in through these platforms, it's

00:20:11 Speaker 04: really validated and it's it's easier

00:20:13 Speaker 04: to quantify qualify the data that's

00:20:15 Speaker 04: coming in, so that we can

00:20:16 Speaker 04: trust it better and it gives

00:20:18 Speaker 04: us something that we can also

00:20:19 Speaker 04: include in reports back as as

00:20:23 Speaker 04: well, so that we could gauge

00:20:24 Speaker 04: sentiment on proposals and just looking

00:20:26 Speaker 04: ahead for the next two, three,

00:20:29 Speaker 04: five years, we do know that

00:20:31 Speaker 04: there are some. Gray County specific

00:20:33 Speaker 04: opportunities coming up where we'd really

00:20:37 Speaker 04: benefit from having a platform like

00:20:40 Speaker 04: this. When you look at complicated

00:20:43 Speaker 04: topics like strategic planning or even

00:20:45 Speaker 04: things like the road transfers, it's

00:20:47 Speaker 04: really a more comprehensive way that

00:20:49 Speaker 04: we can speak to the community

00:20:52 Speaker 04: about these complicated topics and get

00:20:55 Speaker 04: their feedback on those. So the

00:20:58 Speaker 04: cost is thirty thousand dollars for

00:20:59 Speaker 04: the platform. Now that budgeted amount

00:21:02 Speaker 04: is the Gray County go it

00:21:04 Speaker 04: alone cost. But as we have

00:21:07 Speaker 04: looked at this from a regional

00:21:09 Speaker 04: model perspective, if we do get

00:21:11 Speaker 04: participation from municipalities to go in

00:21:12 Speaker 04: on this as well, there is

00:21:15 Speaker 04: a cost of a reduce or

00:21:18 Speaker 04: the opportunity for reduced rates for

00:21:20 Speaker 04: everyone that is participating. It's participating

00:21:22 Speaker 04: in it. So that Gray County's

00:21:26 Speaker 04: twenty five or thirty thousand would

00:21:28 Speaker 04: be down closer to twenty five.

00:21:30 Speaker 04: Down closer to 25 annually, and

00:21:32 Speaker 04: then each local municipality would need

00:21:35 Speaker 04: to pay for the platform as

00:21:36 Speaker 04: well, but their rates would be

00:21:38 Speaker 04: reduced as well. But again, all

00:21:41 Speaker 04: of those platforms then would talk

00:21:44 Speaker 04: to each other. So if someone

00:21:46 Speaker 04: goes to the Chatsworth one to

00:21:48 Speaker 04: engage on something on arenas or

00:21:50 Speaker 04: something like that, they would also

00:21:51 Speaker 04: see opportunities to engage on county

00:21:53 Speaker 04: matters while they're there. Likewise, if

00:21:55 Speaker 04: they came to the county site

00:21:57 Speaker 04: and they were interested. in recreation.

00:22:00 Speaker 04: They could filter by recreation and

00:22:03 Speaker 04: see what's available in their own

00:22:04 Speaker 04: municipality. So that's just a quick

00:22:05 Speaker 04: overview of that. Thank you. Just

00:22:07 Speaker 04: hold on a moment, just in

00:22:10 Speaker 04: case there are any questions in

00:22:12 Speaker 01: terms of that social pinpoint, and

00:22:13 Speaker 01: we'll go to the deputy warden.

00:22:17 Speaker 05: Thank you, Madam Warden, and thank

00:22:19 Speaker 05: you, Rob, for the description of

00:22:21 Speaker 05: this software. Do we have any

00:22:25 Speaker 05: kind of indication what the participation

00:22:27 Speaker 05: rate is for these? type of

00:22:28 Speaker 05: softwares. Over the years, I've seen

00:22:33 Speaker 05: different attempts to get, you know,

00:22:35 Speaker 05: the pulse of the community, so

00:22:38 Speaker 05: to speak. And inevitably, if if

00:22:40 Speaker 05: a hot topic lands on the

00:22:42 Speaker 05: floor, you get a pile-on effect

00:22:44 Speaker 05: for that topic, but nothing else.

00:22:50 Speaker 05: And over time, people start to

00:22:51 Speaker 05: say, "Screw it! I'm not going

00:22:54 Speaker 05: to bother. It doesn't matter." I

00:22:55 Speaker 05: have to say, I think if

00:22:57 Speaker 05: we're all doing our job, we

00:22:58 Speaker 05: know what the hot topics are.

00:23:02 Speaker 05: We know what our community is

00:23:04 Speaker 05: saying. We know what our ratepayers

00:23:07 Speaker 05: are thinking. So I, I struggle

00:23:10 Speaker 05: supporting this. I'll be honest. Data

00:23:13 Speaker 05: is important, and the data that

00:23:21 Speaker 05: we do get typically is accurate.

00:23:23 Speaker 05: But is it enough? I, I

00:23:31 Speaker 05: don't know. I, thank you. Thank

00:23:34 Speaker 05: you, Manager Hatton. Did you want

00:23:36 Speaker 05: to reply? Yeah, just to that

00:23:37 Speaker 04: point. Certainly, you're right. There are

00:23:42 Speaker 04: going to be topics that get

00:23:43 Speaker 04: a lot more engagement, and actually,

00:23:46 Speaker 04: if you have a controversial—maybe not

00:23:48 Speaker 04: the right word—but something like that

00:23:49 Speaker 04: to launch the platform, that's fantastic.

00:23:50 Speaker 04: With these platforms, I think you

00:23:52 Speaker 04: get as much out of them

00:23:55 Speaker 04: as you're willing to put into

00:23:59 Speaker 04: them. So the the amount of

00:24:01 Speaker 04: effort that the municipality is willing

00:24:04 Speaker 04: to to use the platform and

00:24:05 Speaker 04: put projects and services on there,

00:24:07 Speaker 04: and and make it something that

00:24:09 Speaker 04: the community regularly wants to check

00:24:10 Speaker 04: in on, and they really feel

00:24:14 Speaker 04: a part of it. I think

00:24:17 Speaker 04: that's where you build momentum over

00:24:18 Speaker 04: time, and you get that repeated

00:24:20 Speaker 04: participation. And I absolutely. agree that

00:24:21 Speaker 04: you, as the councillors in the

00:24:22 Speaker 04: community, you're talking to people, you're

00:24:25 Speaker 04: hearing from people all the time,

00:24:27 Speaker 04: and you do have a a

00:24:28 Speaker 04: good sense of the pulse. But

00:24:30 Speaker 04: I I know that there are

00:24:34 Speaker 04: more introverted community members out there

00:24:36 Speaker 04: as well that are less likely

00:24:39 Speaker 04: to engage in person, and these

00:24:41 Speaker 04: online digital opportunities are are good

00:24:42 Speaker 04: for for them, and as well

00:24:44 Speaker 04: people that have maybe less accessibility

00:24:49 Speaker 04: to go out to community events

00:24:50 Speaker 04: and other places where you may

00:24:55 Speaker 04: be. Is where you may be,

00:24:56 Speaker 04: they would be able to participate

00:25:00 Speaker 04: digitally as well. Okay, thank you.

00:25:02 Speaker 04: We'll go to Councillor Greg next.

00:25:05 Speaker 04: I appreciate staff looking for alternatives

00:25:06 Speaker 06: in terms of ways of funding

00:25:08 Speaker 06: the the initiative. I do disagree

00:25:10 Speaker 06: with it fundamentally. I'm against the

00:25:12 Speaker 06: expenditure on it. Doesn't matter where

00:25:14 Speaker 06: it's funded from. I was umpiring

00:25:17 Speaker 06: one night in Desborough when they

00:25:20 Speaker 06: had the community meeting about closing

00:25:25 Speaker 06: the arena. I don't think when

00:25:30 Speaker 06: there's hot topic items, you need

00:25:33 Speaker 06: an that extra social medium beyond.

00:25:34 Speaker 06: We're already allocating staffing resources to

00:25:36 Speaker 06: maintaining Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. I think

00:25:37 Speaker 06: the the Rogers campaign looked like

00:25:40 Speaker 06: a great TikTok initiative as well

00:25:42 Speaker 06: that was just presented. There's so

00:25:44 Speaker 06: many mediums I think we're already

00:25:46 Speaker 06: into, and every time we add

00:25:49 Speaker 06: one, it's either acknowledging we have

00:25:51 Speaker 06: additional. staff capacity that can accommodate

00:25:54 Speaker 06: it, or you're going to have

00:25:57 Speaker 06: to add capacity in the back

00:25:58 Speaker 06: end to fund everything. You mentioned

00:26:02 Speaker 06: about explaining the services we are

00:26:04 Speaker 06: offering to citizens. I would just

00:26:06 Speaker 06: say it's my opinion. If we

00:26:07 Speaker 06: have to explain the services we

00:26:09 Speaker 06: are offering, it is not just

00:26:12 Speaker 06: providing services that we are doing.

00:26:13 Speaker 06: Rather, we're looking to create them,

00:26:15 Speaker 06: and I see our role is

00:26:17 Speaker 06: just to strictly maintain. ourselves as

00:26:18 Speaker 06: a service provider, so I think

00:26:23 Speaker 06: we're going a little bit out

00:26:27 Speaker 06: of out of our lane for

00:26:28 Speaker 06: what we need to with this

00:26:31 Speaker 06: initiative. So I would be against

00:26:35 Speaker 06: it. Okay, we'll go to Councillor

00:26:38 Speaker 07: Eccles next. Thank you very much,

00:26:41 Speaker 07: Madam Warden, and through you to

00:26:45 Speaker 07: Rob. And kind of touched on

00:26:50 Speaker 07: by Councillor Greg, the collection of

00:26:53 Speaker 07: data. I guess what scares me

00:26:56 Speaker 07: the most about this is that

00:26:59 Speaker 07: fact right there. Do we have

00:27:01 Speaker 07: the capacity? Do the communications at

00:27:04 Speaker 07: the lower tier individuals have the

00:27:06 Speaker 07: capacity to get out of that?

00:27:10 Speaker 07: The data, the data analysis. That's

00:27:11 Speaker 07: one thing that I keep hearing.

00:27:12 Speaker 07: You know, data, data. Different corporations

00:27:14 Speaker 07: that I've dealt with. Oh, we've

00:27:17 Speaker 07: got all of this data, but

00:27:19 Speaker 07: the next thing you know, they

00:27:20 Speaker 07: back to you and say, "Yeah,

00:27:22 Speaker 07: I need three more new more

00:27:27 Speaker 07: known people." Where does the web

00:27:30 Speaker 07: go? How many more people are

00:27:36 Speaker 07: we going to have to be

00:27:37 Speaker 07: able to run this and collect

00:27:45 Speaker 07: the data out of it that

00:27:48 Speaker 07: maybe would benefit us in the

00:27:50 Speaker 07: decision making going forward. it's the

00:27:52 Speaker 07: creep that scares me on this

00:27:54 Speaker 04: as well, too. And through you,

00:27:58 Speaker 04: Madam Warden, I wouldn't anticipate any

00:28:01 Speaker 04: additional additional staff resourcing being needed

00:28:04 Speaker 04: through this. Like through the reporting

00:28:06 Speaker 04: features on these platforms, they summarise

00:28:09 Speaker 04: that data for you. They have

00:28:11 Speaker 04: built-in capabilities to scan the comments

00:28:13 Speaker 04: and help judge sentiment. Depending what

00:28:14 Speaker 04: features you're using, it can give

00:28:18 Speaker 04: you an average of the sentiment

00:28:20 Speaker 04: on on something. If you're asking

00:28:22 Speaker 04: people like out of a scale

00:28:24 Speaker 04: how much they agree with something,

00:28:25 Speaker 04: they can summarise that. I really

00:28:27 Speaker 04: don't think that there would be

00:28:29 Speaker 04: any additional staff time going into

00:28:34 Speaker 04: the data. It would just be

00:28:36 Speaker 04: there, present to us, that we

00:28:37 Speaker 04: could pull from it and share

00:28:38 Speaker 04: it. Rather than when we use

00:28:39 Speaker 04: social media, our our best. real

00:28:41 Speaker 04: gauge of sentiment there is thumbs

00:28:42 Speaker 04: up, and if you would have

00:28:45 Speaker 04: told me twelve years ago that

00:28:46 Speaker 04: I was going to judge the

00:28:47 Speaker 04: effectiveness of my marketing campaigns by

00:28:54 Speaker 04: how many thumbs up I get

00:28:57 Speaker 04: on something, I wouldn't have believed

00:28:59 Speaker 04: you. But this this takes it

00:29:00 Speaker 07: a little bit beyond that and

00:29:04 Speaker 07: gives us something more that we

00:29:09 Speaker 07: can trust. So it sounds like

00:29:13 Speaker 07: we'll be able to downstaff because

00:29:15 Speaker 07: it seems that there's going to

00:29:18 Speaker 07: be a lot of AI in

00:29:20 Speaker 07: this, and I'll be quiet. Okay,

00:29:23 Speaker 08: we'll just go over to the

00:29:25 Speaker 08: CAO. Thank you, Warden, and thank

00:29:28 Speaker 08: you for all the comments and

00:29:29 Speaker 08: questions regarding this. I think I

00:29:33 Speaker 08: know this to the Budget and

00:29:36 Speaker 08: Finance Committee. We did have discussions

00:29:39 Speaker 08: with this amongst the local CAOs.

00:29:40 Speaker 08: This and we did we had

00:29:43 Speaker 08: a demo of of social pinpoint

00:29:45 Speaker 08: with with the CAs definitely the

00:29:46 Speaker 08: group consensus was seeing value with

00:29:48 Speaker 08: the platform again whether or not

00:29:51 Speaker 08: you can roll this out across

00:29:52 Speaker 08: regionally with every municipality on board

00:29:55 Speaker 08: day one probably not but over

00:29:57 Speaker 08: time we think there was there's

00:29:59 Speaker 08: definitely merit to explore this having

00:30:02 Speaker 08: that consistent regional platform and message

00:30:04 Speaker 08: to be able to communicate and

00:30:06 Speaker 08: engage with our residents especially when

00:30:08 Speaker 08: we're working on regional projects, I

00:30:11 Speaker 08: think there's merit and benefit to

00:30:13 Speaker 08: that. We've seen and talked to

00:30:15 Speaker 08: a number of municipalities that have

00:30:17 Speaker 08: rolled this platform out and have

00:30:19 Speaker 08: seen tremendous benefit from that. And

00:30:20 Speaker 08: and as Rob has indicated, there's

00:30:23 Speaker 08: there's some reporting tools that are

00:30:25 Speaker 08: built right in that will allow

00:30:28 Speaker 08: us to gather some of that

00:30:29 Speaker 08: data and information very quickly to

00:30:32 Speaker 08: be able to report back to

00:30:33 Speaker 08: council when we're looking for that

00:30:35 Speaker 08: feedback from residents. and community with

00:30:37 Speaker 08: respect to whatever project or initiative

00:30:38 Speaker 08: that we're working on at that

00:30:39 Speaker 08: time, so so that's why staff

00:30:44 Speaker 08: are bringing this forward as a

00:30:50 Speaker 08: recommendation. Obviously, we'll take council's direction

00:30:53 Speaker 08: in terms of where you want

00:30:58 Speaker 09: to go with this, but just

00:31:00 Speaker 09: wanted to provide that further feedback.

00:31:03 Speaker 09: Okay, thank you. We'll go to

00:31:05 Speaker 09: Councillor Dobrine. Thank you, and through

00:31:07 Speaker 09: you, Rob, the social. pinpoint. You're

00:31:09 Speaker 09: looking at social pinpoint, but have

00:31:11 Speaker 09: you considered or compared it to

00:31:15 Speaker 09: I Matter, small i, capital M

00:31:17 Speaker 09: A T R? They were at

00:31:21 Speaker 09: the Amol conference and Roma conference,

00:31:24 Speaker 09: and they've been reaching out. I

00:31:26 Speaker 09: don't know enough about them, but

00:31:30 Speaker 09: they also provide a platform similar

00:31:38 Speaker 09: to this, where it's a secure

00:31:40 Speaker 09: engagement tool. There may be maybe.

00:31:42 Speaker 10: value just having a look and

00:31:44 Speaker 10: and comparing the two, and perhaps

00:31:46 Speaker 10: there's some cost differences as well.

00:31:49 Speaker 10: Are you familiar with it? Yeah,

00:31:50 Speaker 04: it's for you, Madam Warden. We

00:31:53 Speaker 04: I'm not actually familiar with that

00:31:55 Speaker 04: specific one, and I have looked

00:31:57 Speaker 04: at a lot of engagement platforms

00:31:59 Speaker 04: over the last multiple years. Um,

00:32:02 Speaker 04: what what really stood out was

00:32:03 Speaker 04: social. pinpoint that we started going

00:32:05 Speaker 04: down this path more seriously in

00:32:06 Speaker 04: the last year was that regional

00:32:07 Speaker 04: model piece and the benefits that

00:32:09 Speaker 04: we have to the community if

00:32:13 Speaker 04: we can make it simpler for

00:32:16 Speaker 04: them to engage at both the

00:32:18 Speaker 04: upper and lower tier levels. So

00:32:21 Speaker 04: I'll have to look into that

00:32:24 Speaker 04: one to see if it also

00:32:28 Speaker 04: offers that similarly. But in comparing

00:32:30 Speaker 04: this particular tool with other engagement

00:32:32 Speaker 04: platforms that are offering a regional

00:32:34 Speaker 04: model. This one did come out

00:32:36 Speaker 04: for sure as the preferred software,

00:32:38 Speaker 04: and in in reaching out and

00:32:39 Speaker 04: speaking with other communities, I have

00:32:43 Speaker 04: learned as well. The city or

00:32:46 Speaker 04: the region of Waterloo was the

00:32:48 Speaker 04: first or one of the earlier

00:32:51 Speaker 04: adopters of this platform, and they

00:32:55 Speaker 04: do it on the regional level

00:32:57 Speaker 04: in Waterloo, and it's been quite

00:32:59 Speaker 04: successful with them, and they have

00:33:01 Speaker 04: smaller local municipalities that. Our local

00:33:06 Speaker 04: municipalities that have come on with

00:33:08 Speaker 04: them as well, and they had

00:33:11 Speaker 11: been with previous other providers out

00:33:15 Speaker 11: there before, and they said that

00:33:17 Speaker 11: the the service was night and

00:33:20 Speaker 11: day improved when they've moved to

00:33:22 Speaker 12: this platform as well. Okay, thank

00:33:25 Speaker 12: you. Looking around the room, we'll

00:33:28 Speaker 12: go to Councillor Ketner. Thank you,

00:33:46 Speaker 12: and through you, Ward Matrasovs, I

00:33:50 Speaker 12: could use. a little help just

00:33:53 Speaker 12: understanding how we spend thirty thousand

00:33:55 Speaker 12: dollars and get a .04 percent

00:33:57 Speaker 12: decrease in in the residential rate.

00:33:59 Speaker 03: I'm missing something here. I just

00:34:01 Speaker 03: don't quite get it. Thank you,

00:34:04 Speaker 03: Madam Warden. To respond to Councillor

00:34:09 Speaker 03: Kentner's question, if we fund this

00:34:13 Speaker 03: in the 2026 budget from the

00:34:16 Speaker 03: one-time funding reserve, it would reduce

00:34:18 Speaker 03: our levy requirement by thirty thousand

00:34:20 Speaker 12: dollars, which is a zero point

00:34:22 Speaker 12: zero four percent decrease in the

00:34:27 Speaker 12: residential rate. If I may, a

00:34:29 Speaker 12: supplementary, I just. I think we're

00:34:32 Speaker 12: a bit early because I know

00:34:34 Speaker 12: in Mefford, you know, we're we've

00:34:36 Speaker 12: budgeted a big number for a

00:34:37 Speaker 12: complete revamp of a of a

00:34:39 Speaker 12: really tired and awkward system website,

00:34:41 Speaker 12: and I I just am unaware

00:34:44 Speaker 12: that we whether or not our

00:34:52 Speaker 12: staff is interested in this or

00:34:54 Speaker 12: not. I just don't know, and

00:34:55 Speaker 12: would be as I say. I

00:34:57 Speaker 12: just think we're maybe a bit

00:34:59 Speaker 04: early on this one, and nothing

00:35:06 Speaker 04: is. changing faster than the software

00:35:09 Speaker 04: world. I don't think so. Thank

00:35:19 Speaker 04: you. And through you, Madam Warden,

00:35:19 Speaker 04: I have been in contact with

00:35:25 Speaker 13: staff at the municipality of Meaford,

00:35:29 Speaker 13: and they are interested in this

00:35:31 Speaker 07: as a platform. Yes. Yeah. Okay.

00:35:33 Speaker 07: Thank you. Can hear. We'll go

00:35:35 Speaker 07: to Councillor Eccles. This is sole

00:35:38 Speaker 07: sourced, or are we going to

00:35:40 Speaker 07: go out with an RFP for

00:35:42 Speaker 07: this? That's on the purchasing. Yeah,

00:35:46 Speaker 07: that's my question on that. So

00:35:48 Speaker 07: we already decided that Social Points

00:35:50 Speaker 07: won, and we've gone through purchasing

00:35:53 Speaker 07: to come up with this. I

00:35:56 Speaker 04: don't even remember. I don't really

00:35:58 Speaker 04: remember, but then again, we don't

00:36:01 Speaker 04: see all the RFPs uploaded on

00:36:03 Speaker 04: that. Thank you. Yeah, so this

00:36:05 Speaker 04: has been discussed with the purchasing

00:36:09 Speaker 04: team, and I I mentioned Region

00:36:11 Speaker 04: of Waterloo earlier when they issued

00:36:13 Speaker 04: their our their RFP, they did

00:36:14 Speaker 04: include clauses in that that said

00:36:18 Speaker 04: other public sector organisations in Ontario

00:36:20 Speaker 04: could follow along on their RFP

00:36:21 Speaker 04: as well, and in speaking with

00:36:23 Speaker 04: our finance department between. that we

00:36:29 Speaker 04: could use that for sure, as

00:36:31 Speaker 04: well as all of the the

00:36:33 Speaker 04: work and demos that have gone

00:36:35 Speaker 04: on in checking out other platforms.

00:36:39 Speaker 04: Knowing that this platform does have

00:36:41 Speaker 04: the features that we like, we

00:36:43 Speaker 04: would be able to move forward

00:36:45 Speaker 04: with social pinpoint. Yeah. Okay, and

00:36:47 Speaker 06: Councillor Gray, right? I'll just put

00:36:48 Speaker 06: a motion on the floor that

00:36:50 Speaker 06: this expenditure be removed from the

00:36:52 Speaker 06: 2020. From the 2026 budget, and

00:36:53 Speaker 06: that's not speaking to where it's

00:36:54 Speaker 06: funded from, but that it be

00:36:57 Speaker 06: removed. I don't think it's been

00:36:59 Speaker 06: identified by any of the 18

00:37:03 Speaker 06: councillors throughout the last year that

00:37:06 Speaker 06: there's a gap, or that the

00:37:10 Speaker 06: requirement has been spoken to on

00:37:11 Speaker 06: behalf of council. I understand where

00:37:12 Speaker 06: staff might be coming from in

00:37:13 Speaker 06: terms of identifying different engagement processes,

00:37:14 Speaker 06: but I haven't heard any discussion

00:37:19 Speaker 06: around this table in terms of

00:37:21 Speaker 06: motivating or initiating. the action or

00:37:23 Speaker 06: needing to identify a correction to

00:37:24 Speaker 14: a problem that hasn't been spoken

00:37:26 Speaker 14: to yet at the table here.

00:37:28 Speaker 14: So I'll just put that in

00:37:42 Speaker 14: the floor that it be removed

00:37:49 Speaker 14: from the 2026 budget. Thanks. Okay,

00:37:57 Speaker 14: it's been moved by Councillor Greg

00:37:59 Speaker 02: and seconded by Councillor Mackie. So

00:38:02 Speaker 02: it's now on the floor for

00:38:04 Speaker 02: discussion. I'll ask Madam Clerk if

00:38:06 Speaker 02: you can make sure that it's

00:38:07 Speaker 15: visible on a screen. Let's see

00:38:11 Speaker 15: it on screen. Just making sure

00:38:13 Speaker 15: that everybody can see it as

00:38:14 Speaker 15: well. There we go. Okay, so

00:38:15 Speaker 15: it's recommended that the social That

00:38:16 Speaker 15: social pinpoint this that social pinpoint

00:38:20 Speaker 15: item be removed from the 2026

00:38:21 Speaker 15: budget that was moved by Councillor

00:38:24 Speaker 16: Gregg seconded by Councillor Mackie and

00:38:26 Speaker 16: that's the wording we're looking okay

00:38:30 Speaker 16: thank you it's now on the

00:38:32 Speaker 16: floor for discussion we'll begin with

00:38:33 Speaker 16: Councillor McQueen and then we'll go

00:38:36 Speaker 16: to Councillor Pringle after that so

00:38:38 Speaker 16: I I'm seeking a little bit

00:38:41 Speaker 16: of clarity and just asking and

00:38:45 Speaker 16: I'm just so as we move

00:38:47 Speaker 16: along in social media and you

00:38:49 Speaker 16: know probably 15 years ago, we

00:38:51 Speaker 16: all had blackberries, and now we

00:38:53 Speaker 16: all have iPhones or whatever. And

00:38:56 Speaker 16: I know the platforms come along

00:38:57 Speaker 16: with that. I guess my question

00:38:59 Speaker 16: is, does this capture the younger

00:39:02 Speaker 16: coiled hearts? So today, my kids

00:39:03 Speaker 16: don't use email; they do Facebook

00:39:06 Speaker 16: a little bit, or Instagram, or

00:39:10 Speaker 16: Snapchat, or whatever news coming on.

00:39:11 Speaker 16: The form, the platform keeps changing.

00:39:13 Speaker 16: I don't know enough about this,

00:39:14 Speaker 16: and I think a lot of

00:39:17 Speaker 16: us around here. but is this,

00:39:19 Speaker 16: and we always struggle to reach

00:39:19 Speaker 16: out to the younger cohorts. Is

00:39:22 Speaker 16: this something that would capture that

00:39:24 Speaker 16: that cohort group? Is it is

00:39:25 Speaker 16: it more of a format? You

00:39:26 Speaker 16: know, like I don't think anybody

00:39:28 Speaker 16: writes a letter and says, you

00:39:30 Speaker 16: know, dear Brian Millen, how are

00:39:38 Speaker 16: you today? Like you know what

00:39:41 Speaker 16: I mean? Like it keeps moving,

00:39:43 Speaker 16: our our connection and contact keeps

00:39:48 Speaker 16: moving. So can you explain a

00:39:52 Speaker 04: little bit? And maybe we need

00:39:54 Speaker 04: a demonstration. I I don't know.

00:39:56 Speaker 04: A demonstration. I don't know, but

00:39:58 Speaker 04: so that's my question. Does this

00:40:00 Speaker 04: capture the younger cohorts? Through you,

00:40:03 Speaker 04: Madam Morton, I I I wouldn't

00:40:05 Speaker 04: say that it is going to

00:40:09 Speaker 04: specifically target younger cohorts. It's probably

00:40:11 Speaker 04: going to be more appreciated because

00:40:12 Speaker 04: younger people are more apt to

00:40:14 Speaker 04: use a digital tool. than to

00:40:16 Speaker 04: go out and engage in person.

00:40:18 Speaker 04: I think that's just something that

00:40:20 Speaker 04: we've we recognize personality wise is

00:40:22 Speaker 04: changing with the generational gap. But

00:40:25 Speaker 04: that said, we still need to

00:40:30 Speaker 04: let that generation know that the

00:40:36 Speaker 04: tool exists. So we're still going

00:40:36 Speaker 04: to need to use other tactics

00:40:43 Speaker 04: to to promote a platform like

00:40:45 Speaker 04: this to all demographics so that

00:40:47 Speaker 04: they know to go there and

00:40:48 Speaker 04: engage. But I do certainly feel

00:40:51 Speaker 04: like this would be more appropriate.

00:40:52 Speaker 04: than a public meeting or newspaper

00:40:53 Speaker 04: promotions, those sort of things to

00:40:55 Speaker 17: to younger audiences. Yes. Okay. Thank

00:40:56 Speaker 17: you. We'll go to Councillor Pringle.

00:40:57 Speaker 17: Thank you, Ward. I just was

00:40:58 Speaker 17: curious to know if Council would

00:40:59 Speaker 17: be an appetite for something like

00:41:01 Speaker 17: this. Come back to the joint

00:41:03 Speaker 17: municipality group committee to do more

00:41:08 Speaker 17: research on. it, to follow up

00:41:10 Speaker 17: to see if there is an

00:41:11 Speaker 17: advantage to the municipality being part

00:41:13 Speaker 17: of it, and without spending a

00:41:16 Speaker 17: whole pile of money on it,

00:41:18 Speaker 17: but I just wondered if some

00:41:22 Speaker 17: of the joint municipality group could

00:41:25 Speaker 17: look at to get a better

00:41:27 Speaker 17: idea, understanding of what we're looking

00:41:31 Speaker 17: for. Okay, I know that you've

00:41:32 Speaker 17: touched already with talking staff to

00:41:34 Speaker 17: staff, but do you have any

00:41:35 Speaker 08: comment on that suggestion that it

00:41:39 Speaker 08: goes to the joint committee, Manager

00:41:42 Speaker 08: Hatton? Oh, actually, we'll look to

00:41:43 Speaker 08: the CAO for that. Through you,

00:41:45 Speaker 08: Warden, happy to take direction of

00:41:47 Speaker 08: council. Obviously, that is definitely a

00:41:49 Speaker 08: topic if if directed by this

00:41:51 Speaker 08: this council body that we could

00:41:56 Speaker 08: bring forward to the Joint Municipal

00:41:58 Speaker 08: Service Committee and provide them with

00:42:00 Speaker 08: an update or further information. Do

00:42:01 Speaker 08: a demo with that that committee

00:42:03 Speaker 08: and and maybe do a demo

00:42:05 Speaker 08: back with the council, depending on

00:42:06 Speaker 08: the discussion and direction. So again,

00:42:09 Speaker 08: happy to take the direction from

00:42:10 Speaker 08: council. with respect to that, but

00:42:11 Speaker 18: it's it's one avenue that could

00:42:13 Speaker 18: be explored. Okay, thank you. And

00:42:15 Speaker 18: we'll go to Councillor Greg. I

00:42:17 Speaker 18: have a question to you, but

00:42:19 Speaker 18: if it's not asked, then I

00:42:22 Speaker 18: will I will ask my question

00:42:28 Speaker 18: afterwards. So, Councillor Greg, I would

00:42:30 Speaker 18: just say it's two separate conversations.

00:42:32 Speaker 18: The first is the purity of

00:42:33 Speaker 18: the motion not on the floor.

00:42:37 Speaker 18: The second is that any member

00:42:38 Speaker 18: of that committee next year could

00:42:40 Speaker 18: bring an item like this back

00:42:42 Speaker 15: forward for discussion and provide. guidance

00:42:46 Speaker 15: to staff through that discussion for

00:42:47 Speaker 15: consideration in the 2027 budget creation.

00:42:52 Speaker 15: Thank you, and Madam Clerk, can

00:42:55 Speaker 15: I just confirm then if this

00:42:57 Speaker 15: motion passes the way it is

00:42:59 Speaker 15: in terms of reconsideration, the Joint

00:43:01 Speaker 19: Committee would be free to go

00:43:03 Speaker 19: ahead and continue the discussion, learn

00:43:06 Speaker 19: more about it, and present ask

00:43:07 Speaker 19: that something be considered in 2027

00:43:08 Speaker 19: without restriction. Okay. Could you just

00:43:11 Speaker 19: confirm that with the mic? If

00:43:15 Speaker 19: council does decide to remove this

00:43:26 Speaker 19: item from the 2026 budget, and

00:43:28 Speaker 19: the matter went to Joint Municipal

00:43:29 Speaker 19: Services Committee, that committee could discuss

00:43:30 Speaker 19: the item further and bring a

00:43:34 Speaker 19: suggestion back for council to consider

00:43:37 Speaker 20: in the future. We may have

00:43:39 Speaker 20: to handle it a certain way

00:43:43 Speaker 20: at the time, but to initiate

00:43:46 Speaker 20: those discussions, there's no issue. Okay.

00:43:48 Speaker 21: Thank you. And to Councillor Dobrine,

00:43:52 Speaker 21: then. Okay, we just heard from

00:43:55 Speaker 21: Councillor Queen. So, if I could

00:43:57 Speaker 21: just, I'll make sure I circle

00:44:01 Speaker 21: back to any second comments. Thank

00:44:03 Speaker 21: you. And through you, I'm all

00:44:06 Speaker 21: for finding a way to better

00:44:07 Speaker 21: connect with residents. Officially, we have

00:44:10 Speaker 21: tried in Southgate. bang the table,

00:44:13 Speaker 21: no success. We have just recently

00:44:16 Speaker 21: done an engagement about our forecasting

00:44:20 Speaker 21: and budgeting tools. We had ninety

00:44:24 Speaker 21: people respond, which is actually better

00:44:27 Speaker 21: than we've ever had. And we

00:44:30 Speaker 21: use SurveyMonkey. There are platforms out

00:44:32 Speaker 21: there. My understanding from a quick

00:44:35 Speaker 21: search is that Gray Highlands is

00:44:38 Speaker 21: already using Share Social Pinpoint. It's

00:44:43 Speaker 21: called Connect Gray Highlands. Connect Great

00:44:46 Speaker 21: Highlands, and I'd be interested through

00:44:48 Speaker 21: this discussion to find out what

00:44:49 Speaker 21: our own municipalities, what kind of

00:44:51 Speaker 21: improved engagement that has shown. We

00:44:53 Speaker 21: we have the opportunity right there.

00:44:58 Speaker 21: I don't feel that we have

00:45:01 Speaker 21: enough information to say yes or

00:45:05 Speaker 21: no. I'd be more interested to

00:45:07 Speaker 21: to learn more about Social Pinpoint

00:45:09 Speaker 21: and how our municipalities can. get

00:45:11 Speaker 21: on board, and if if our

00:45:13 Speaker 21: if they're engaging with Gray County,

00:45:19 Speaker 21: and they find out that oh,

00:45:22 Speaker 21: I can comment on this in

00:45:25 Speaker 21: Southgate or Gray Highlands, or they

00:45:27 Speaker 21: may become more engaged. So, thank

00:45:29 Speaker 21: you. I am I'm intrigued by

00:45:34 Speaker 21: it because I've been approached by

00:45:37 Speaker 21: I Matter as well. So, I

00:45:39 Speaker 01: I want I want all the

00:45:41 Speaker 01: information. I'd rather see it held

00:45:43 Speaker 01: as a placeholder for now, or

00:45:48 Speaker 01: at least get some more information.

00:45:50 Speaker 01: Okay. So, okay, hold on. Too

00:45:52 Speaker 01: many side conversations going on here.

00:45:55 Speaker 01: So, okay. So I do have.

00:45:56 Speaker 01: There is Councillor Carlton. There is

00:45:58 Speaker 01: Councillor McQueen. We, Madam Clerk, if

00:45:59 Speaker 01: if there's a will to postpone

00:46:00 Speaker 01: the decision. to defer. We would

00:46:01 Speaker 01: need a motion to defer, or

00:46:03 Speaker 01: can we just table it until

00:46:04 Speaker 01: our round two, which is next

00:46:09 Speaker 01: Friday? My recommendation, since it is

00:46:10 Speaker 01: on the floor, that it could

00:46:10 Speaker 01: be deferred until the December twelfth

00:46:12 Speaker 01: meeting. Okay, so I'll just leave

00:46:13 Speaker 01: that thought then. But I want

00:46:16 Speaker 01: to take the hands that are

00:46:19 Speaker 01: already up. So I'm going to

00:46:21 Speaker 01: go to Councillor McQueen. Then I'm

00:46:23 Speaker 01: going to go to Councillor Carlton,

00:46:26 Speaker 16: and I'll still ask my question

00:46:30 Speaker 16: if it's not asked. thank

00:46:33 Speaker 16: you, Madam Ward. I guess

00:46:35 Speaker 16: you don't know what you don't

00:46:37 Speaker 16: know, but I just googled it

00:46:38 Speaker 16: here, and there's a number of

00:46:39 Speaker 16: points here that are on on

00:46:40 Speaker 16: the when you Google it. It

00:46:42 Speaker 16: says one point: increase public participation,

00:46:44 Speaker 16: making it easy for people to

00:46:48 Speaker 16: give input and feedback, regardless of

00:46:50 Speaker 16: location or schedule. Another one is

00:46:52 Speaker 16: social pinpoint is an all-in-one community

00:46:53 Speaker 16: engagement platform that empowers organise organisations

00:46:55 Speaker 16: to. connect with their communities right

00:46:58 Speaker 16: where they are. There's a lot

00:46:59 Speaker 16: of things on here, so I

00:47:00 Speaker 16: I would support it. But for

00:47:05 Speaker 16: all this, so we get more

00:47:06 Speaker 16: information and more background. You know,

00:47:08 Speaker 16: obviously it's there's a connection to

00:47:10 Speaker 16: LinkedIn and social or Instagram and

00:47:13 Speaker 16: and so there's it needs to

00:47:15 Speaker 16: be connected to all those platforms.

00:47:17 Speaker 16: You mentioned that Rob that is

00:47:20 Speaker 16: connected to those platforms. So I'm

00:47:22 Speaker 16: just the last minute Google and

00:47:26 Speaker 16: there's a lot of stuff here.

00:47:27 Speaker 16: So maybe we need time to

00:47:31 Speaker 22: get more information. Okay, thank you.

00:47:32 Speaker 22: I'm going to go to Councillor

00:47:35 Speaker 22: Carleton and then put a last

00:47:38 Speaker 22: call out for hands. We'll go

00:47:42 Speaker 22: to Councillor Carleton next online. Thank

00:47:45 Speaker 22: you, Warden. I guess what I'm

00:47:47 Speaker 22: wondering is, it. I agree with

00:47:50 Speaker 22: what Councillor McQueen is saying that

00:47:53 Speaker 22: there's younger generation that look to

00:47:54 Speaker 22: interact differently. I also feel we

00:47:58 Speaker 22: don't have enough information to really

00:48:01 Speaker 22: make a decision on this. Totally.

00:48:04 Speaker 22: so I'm wondering if we can

00:48:08 Speaker 22: amend the motion to ask that,

00:48:09 Speaker 22: while it be removed from 2026,

00:48:11 Speaker 22: that it be, or referred to

00:48:13 Speaker 15: that joint committee for more information

00:48:16 Speaker 15: and for there perhaps to be

00:48:17 Speaker 15: a presentation to all of council

00:48:19 Speaker 15: and to the lower tier municipalities

00:48:21 Speaker 15: so that we can have that

00:48:22 Speaker 15: information going forward. Okay, thank you,

00:48:33 Speaker 15: Councillor Carleton and Madam. Councillor Carleton

00:48:35 Speaker 15: and Madam Clerk, the the the

00:48:37 Speaker 15: proposition then is to move an

00:48:39 Speaker 23: amendment to to do those items,

00:48:41 Speaker 23: or is it that we vote

00:48:44 Speaker 19: on this one and then if

00:48:47 Speaker 19: it fails, or sorry, if it

00:48:50 Speaker 19: succeeds, either way, succeeds or fails,

00:48:52 Speaker 19: there's a separate motion. Would you

00:48:54 Speaker 19: would you like that that directive

00:48:56 Speaker 19: to come as a separate motion

00:48:58 Speaker 19: or as an amendment to this

00:49:00 Speaker 19: main motion? I think, in the

00:49:08 Speaker 19: interest of not losing sight of

00:49:10 Speaker 19: the motion as part of 2026

00:49:12 Speaker 19: budget discussions, because I think council

00:49:13 Speaker 24: will need to make a decision

00:49:15 Speaker 24: on that for 2026. I would

00:49:17 Speaker 24: recommend a deferral until December 12th,

00:49:18 Speaker 24: pending further information, and then perhaps

00:49:20 Speaker 01: at that time council can revisit

00:49:21 Speaker 01: the discussion on whether goes to

00:49:23 Speaker 01: joint municipal services and was removed

00:49:27 Speaker 01: from budget. or is just voted

00:49:29 Speaker 01: down altogether, or voted in support

00:49:31 Speaker 01: of? Okay, thank you. Okay, so

00:49:34 Speaker 01: the question that I have then,

00:49:35 Speaker 01: Manager Hatton, is is when I

00:49:36 Speaker 01: was looking it up to try

00:49:38 Speaker 01: to understand, how is this in

00:49:40 Speaker 01: the parallel universe of social media

00:49:41 Speaker 01: that's happening with Facebook and all

00:49:43 Speaker 01: of the other all of the

00:49:44 Speaker 01: other platforms? How is it different?

00:49:46 Speaker 01: What is it doing? Does it

00:49:49 Speaker 01: actually create efficiency for staff? time

00:49:52 Speaker 01: versus dispersed staff time even further.

00:49:54 Speaker 01: So it refers to the forty

00:49:56 Speaker 01: dynamic engagement tools. So I, the

00:49:58 Speaker 01: question I have for you is

00:50:01 Speaker 01: just so that we have it

00:50:02 Speaker 01: clear, and then I'll look for

00:50:09 Speaker 01: somebody to move a motion. If

00:50:12 Speaker 01: if there's going to be motion

00:50:17 Speaker 01: of referral, I have to make

00:50:19 Speaker 01: sure there's the opportunity for somebody

00:50:22 Speaker 04: to move that prior to voting

00:50:24 Speaker 04: on this main motion. If you

00:50:27 Speaker 04: could just zero back in on

00:50:30 Speaker 04: how is this different than the

00:50:31 Speaker 04: traditional. Than their traditional social media,

00:50:34 Speaker 04: and and what is that above

00:50:36 Speaker 04: and beyond that it's allowing us

00:50:38 Speaker 04: to do in the context of

00:50:41 Speaker 04: the other questions have asked. Thank

00:50:44 Speaker 04: you. Thank you, Madam Warden. So

00:50:46 Speaker 04: the the platform itself it it

00:50:48 Speaker 04: will serve as a a hub

00:50:49 Speaker 04: for specific projects that we want

00:50:51 Speaker 04: to engage on. So residents would

00:50:53 Speaker 04: be able to. subscribe and participate

00:50:54 Speaker 04: in those particular ones or any

00:50:57 Speaker 04: other project that they're interested in

00:51:01 Speaker 04: doing. It has, like you said,

00:51:03 Speaker 04: the 40 engagement tools. There's a

00:51:04 Speaker 04: lot more features with those tools

00:51:06 Speaker 04: than what social media provides. Social

00:51:08 Speaker 04: media is an okay soundboard for

00:51:10 Speaker 04: people sharing comments and ideas. For,

00:51:12 Speaker 04: like I said, you can provide

00:51:13 Speaker 04: those reactions, but that's really it.

00:51:15 Speaker 04: There's not a whole lot of

00:51:16 Speaker 04: substance from the feedback that you.

00:51:18 Speaker 04: get through social media, so this

00:51:22 Speaker 04: platform would allow us to do

00:51:23 Speaker 04: more in-depth engagement, really to the

00:51:25 Speaker 04: level that we want to engage,

00:51:27 Speaker 04: and we can share that out

00:51:30 Speaker 04: through the platform to all of

00:51:32 Speaker 04: the channels where people are. So

00:51:34 Speaker 04: you make an engagement page for

00:51:36 Speaker 15: something like road exchanges, and then

00:51:38 Speaker 15: with the clicks of a button,

00:51:39 Speaker 15: I you can make it promote

00:51:40 Speaker 15: the engagement on LinkedIn on the

00:51:42 Speaker 15: county LinkedIn. You can promote it

00:51:44 Speaker 15: on the county Facebook on the

00:51:46 Speaker 15: county. Instagram page, the other places

00:51:49 Speaker 15: where people are, but then they

00:51:54 Speaker 15: come into the platform to use

00:51:56 Speaker 15: those more robust tools to give

00:51:58 Speaker 15: us the information. Okay, so with

00:52:00 Speaker 15: that example, something like the reference

00:52:02 Speaker 04: that they have to interactive maps.

00:52:03 Speaker 04: If there's a topic about a

00:52:05 Speaker 04: road exchange and some of these

00:52:08 Speaker 04: interested because it sounds like it's

00:52:09 Speaker 04: in their their neck of the

00:52:11 Speaker 04: woods, they could then go to

00:52:13 Speaker 04: this platform, click on an interactive

00:52:16 Speaker 04: map, for example, learn more about

00:52:18 Speaker 04: it, provide feedback and comments, right?

00:52:23 Speaker 04: there. Is that the idea? Yes,

00:52:24 Speaker 04: and with the the mapping example

00:52:26 Speaker 04: too. If it was something like

00:52:29 Speaker 04: we had input our road projects

00:52:31 Speaker 04: for the year, and we just

00:52:32 Speaker 04: wanted to inform the public about

00:52:34 Speaker 04: where they were, and if a

00:52:36 Speaker 04: resident was concerned about their something

00:52:38 Speaker 04: specific along the line, they could

00:52:40 Speaker 04: also drop a pin in, so

00:52:41 Speaker 15: that when that feedback comes to

00:52:43 Speaker 15: us, we know specifically this is

00:52:44 Speaker 15: the location where they're. stating that

00:52:46 Speaker 15: they've seen concerns about the ditch

00:52:51 Speaker 15: overflowing, or or whatever it would

00:52:53 Speaker 15: be. There's a lot of those

00:52:53 Speaker 15: spatial benefits from from the mapping

00:52:56 Speaker 15: tools as well. Okay, so that's

00:52:57 Speaker 15: just an example. Thank you. So

00:53:02 Speaker 15: we are on the discussion of

00:53:05 Speaker 15: the main motion, which is about

00:53:07 Speaker 15: which is about removing it from

00:53:10 Speaker 15: the 2026 budget. So at this

00:53:15 Speaker 15: point in time, we're still in

00:53:18 Speaker 15: discussion of that. This will be

00:53:19 Speaker 15: the opportunity if somebody wishes to

00:53:21 Speaker 15: move a motion to defer to.

00:53:23 Speaker 15: our next committee, the whole meeting,

00:53:25 Speaker 15: December twelfth. Okay, Councillor McQueen, do

00:53:28 Speaker 15: you want to just name what

00:53:32 Speaker 15: it is that you're moving? I

00:53:33 Speaker 15: will make a motion to defer

00:53:36 Speaker 15: to our next budget meeting. Okay.

00:53:38 Speaker 15: Okay, so Councillor McQueen is moving

00:53:44 Speaker 15: that the motion be referred, be

00:53:45 Speaker 15: deferred to the December twelfth, twenty

00:53:46 Speaker 15: twenty-five, pending further information on Social

00:53:48 Speaker 15: Pinpoint being presented. Preferred path. Okay,

00:53:50 Speaker 25: all right. So it's been seconded

00:53:52 Speaker 25: by Councillor Dobrée. So that is

00:53:53 Speaker 25: now on the floor for discussion.

00:53:57 Speaker 25: The discussion item is simply stopping

00:54:00 Speaker 25: the discussion here on the main

00:54:03 Speaker 25: motion, waiting until next week when

00:54:04 Speaker 25: we reconvene, hopefully with further information

00:54:06 Speaker 14: being presented as well as the

00:54:10 Speaker 14: opportunity to explore back home. So,

00:54:11 Speaker 14: is there any discussion on deferring

00:54:18 Speaker 14: that by one week, Councillor Nielsen?

00:54:21 Speaker 14: Just a quick comment saying, I

00:54:22 Speaker 14: mean, you can check out ConnectGreyhounds.ca

00:54:24 Speaker 14: to see the how the platform

00:54:26 Speaker 14: itself works and what available information

00:54:38 Speaker 14: is there. It's a pretty quick

00:54:40 Speaker 14: Google search to if you're wanting

00:54:41 Speaker 14: to see a test for yourself.

00:54:42 Speaker 02: Okay, great. Any other discussion on

00:54:43 Speaker 01: deferring it by one week? Okay,

00:54:45 Speaker 01: then I'll call the question. All

00:54:46 Speaker 01: those in favour of deferring to

00:54:48 Speaker 01: December twelfth? Okay, I'm gonna need.

00:54:51 Speaker 01: I'm going to need to do

00:54:52 Speaker 01: a count of hands here. Okay,

00:54:57 Speaker 01: so Madam Clerk, that motion is

00:54:58 Speaker 01: carried. Okay, so we will then

00:55:00 Speaker 01: pick up this discussion in a

00:55:03 Speaker 01: week's time. Thank you. Thank you

00:55:05 Speaker 01: very much, Manager Hatton. Okay, so

00:55:07 Speaker 01: Director Spicer, this is your. opportunity

00:55:10 Speaker 01: with the final slide to wrap

00:55:12 Speaker 01: up and talk about what we're

00:55:15 Speaker 01: going to be doing. We already

00:55:18 Speaker 01: know one thing we're going to

00:55:20 Speaker 01: be doing on December twelfth, but

00:55:23 Speaker 01: I do wish to ask a

00:55:25 Speaker 01: question just to circle back to.

00:55:27 Speaker 01: Just hold on, I've got lots

00:55:30 Speaker 01: of conversations going on in the

00:55:33 Speaker 01: room here. Okay, right, Madam Clerk,

00:55:34 Speaker 01: are we good for a process

00:55:37 Speaker 01: to continue? Okay, thank you. All

00:55:38 Speaker 01: right, so I do want to

00:55:41 Speaker 01: circle back to what is new

00:55:42 Speaker 01: information for us to contemplate, which

00:55:43 Speaker 01: has. a significant reduction difference in

00:55:44 Speaker 01: the levy, and that is the

00:55:47 Speaker 01: the strategy about the adventure that

00:55:48 Speaker 01: that you described, because it looks

00:55:50 Speaker 01: like an excellent opportunity to be

00:55:52 Speaker 01: able to save one percent or

00:55:54 Speaker 01: more more change in that one

00:55:59 Speaker 01: plus percent off of our our

00:56:03 Speaker 01: of our twenty twenty six budget

00:56:06 Speaker 01: and the the levy implication. The

00:56:07 Speaker 01: question is is why didn't we

00:56:13 Speaker 03: do that before in previous years

00:56:15 Speaker 03: and and. what why are we

00:56:19 Speaker 03: in a position now to consider

00:56:22 Speaker 03: it and and for it to

00:56:24 Speaker 03: be able to make a good

00:56:26 Speaker 03: decision now as well as in

00:56:31 Speaker 03: the future years. So if you

00:56:35 Speaker 03: could just again share the information

00:56:38 Speaker 03: that you have shared with us,

00:56:42 Speaker 03: but in that that question that

00:56:44 Speaker 03: either people here at the horseshoe

00:56:48 Speaker 03: or people in our communities might

00:56:50 Speaker 03: maybe asking. Thank you. Thank you,

00:56:52 Speaker 03: Madam Warden. It's a great question.

00:56:54 Speaker 03: So we. have the three debentures,

00:56:56 Speaker 03: and as I mentioned, they all

00:57:00 Speaker 03: mature in 2030 or 2031. And

00:57:02 Speaker 03: the plan at the time that

00:57:03 Speaker 03: the self-financed debentures were issued was,

00:57:05 Speaker 03: for example, for paramedic services in

00:57:09 Speaker 03: the Chatsworth base, that debenture would

00:57:10 Speaker 03: fall off, and it would be

00:57:12 Speaker 03: available that that levy amount of

00:57:13 Speaker 03: 65,400 would be available for. paramedic

00:57:17 Speaker 03: services capital, and for Gray Gables,

00:57:19 Speaker 03: the seventy three thousand two hundred.

00:57:21 Speaker 03: Again, we are aware that the

00:57:24 Speaker 03: Gray Gables reserve was insufficient. When

00:57:26 Speaker 03: that debenture payment was finished, it

00:57:30 Speaker 03: would just continue to reside in

00:57:33 Speaker 03: Gray Gables levy, and it would

00:57:34 Speaker 03: go toward their future capital needs,

00:57:36 Speaker 03: and the administration building, seven hundred

00:57:40 Speaker 03: six thousand five hundred dollars. When

00:57:42 Speaker 03: that was paid off, we were

00:57:44 Speaker 03: the plan was we would transfer

00:57:48 Speaker 03: that levy contribution to the housing

00:57:51 Speaker 03: department. So it's not that there

00:57:52 Speaker 03: hasn't been a plan for the

00:57:54 Speaker 03: funds. What we're looking at right

00:57:56 Speaker 03: now is you have significant pressures

00:58:01 Speaker 03: on the budget and more from

00:58:04 Speaker 03: the operating side and to the

00:58:06 Speaker 03: to a small extent for asset

00:58:07 Speaker 03: management planning. But as a means

00:58:10 Speaker 03: to reduce this budget without impacting

00:58:12 Speaker 03: levels. of service, we would remove

00:58:14 Speaker 03: those from the budget, and then

00:58:17 Speaker 03: we would look in the future

00:58:19 Speaker 03: at the capital needs and work

00:58:20 Speaker 03: on adjusting the reserve balances. And

00:58:26 Speaker 03: we could do some work between

00:58:27 Speaker 03: reserves, perhaps, and whether it's you

00:58:30 Speaker 03: know going between reserves or collapsing

00:58:32 Speaker 03: reserves. But thought that this was

00:58:34 Speaker 03: a way to offer you an

00:58:36 Speaker 03: opportunity that we could reduce the

00:58:38 Speaker 03: levy contribution. Okay, thank you. I

00:58:42 Speaker 03: appreciate that. And just as

00:58:45 Speaker 03: you're about to conclude your section,

00:58:49 Speaker 03: I'll just put a last call

00:58:51 Speaker 03: out for any general questions to

00:58:53 Speaker 03: Director Spicer. We'll go to Councillor

00:58:55 Speaker 03: Body. I have a series of

00:58:59 Speaker 03: questions here. Right now, in 2025,

00:59:02 Speaker 03: do we have an estimate of

00:59:05 Speaker 03: what our deficit or surplus is

00:59:09 Speaker 03: going to be for this year?

00:59:13 Speaker 26: Through you, Madam Mayor. Three amount

00:59:17 Speaker 26: of more and yes we do.

00:59:23 Speaker 26: So it was presented to Budget

00:59:26 Speaker 26: and Finance Committee at the November

00:59:28 Speaker 26: twenty sixth meeting, and we were

00:59:30 Speaker 26: sitting around three hundred thousand, give

00:59:32 Speaker 26: or take a few thousand. So

00:59:37 Speaker 26: it's very close. There were some

00:59:40 Speaker 26: departments. Obviously, the the significant pressure

00:59:42 Speaker 26: has been winter and snow removal

00:59:44 Speaker 26: budgets being over, and in some

00:59:46 Speaker 26: departments they tried to scale back

00:59:48 Speaker 26: what they could to reduce the

00:59:49 Speaker 26: the impact on the 2025 budget.

00:59:50 Speaker 26: Thank you. So I note 2024

00:59:52 Speaker 26: 4.4 million dollars surplus, so about

00:59:54 Speaker 26: six percent of the levy. 2023

00:59:56 Speaker 26: 1.8 million, or about 2.35 percent

00:59:59 Speaker 26: of the levy. 2022 1.6 million

01:00:02 Speaker 26: surplus, approximately 2.45 percent of the

01:00:04 Speaker 26: levy. Those are big. numbers, and

01:00:07 Speaker 26: of course we're budgeting this year

01:00:09 Speaker 26: based on last year's budget, not

01:00:11 Speaker 26: last year's actuals, and we do

01:00:14 Speaker 26: that each year. Is is there

01:00:18 Speaker 26: an explanation, or how do we

01:00:21 Speaker 26: how do we get such big

01:00:22 Speaker 26: surpluses? Two hundred thousand isn't a

01:00:26 Speaker 26: big surplus, but we had a

01:00:28 Speaker 26: wicked winter last year that we

01:00:31 Speaker 26: may or may not have. Just

01:00:32 Speaker 26: trying to figure out how we

01:00:35 Speaker 26: got to that, and if we're

01:00:38 Speaker 26: starting with a base amount that

01:00:39 Speaker 26: we're putting five points something on,

01:00:41 Speaker 26: it is too high right from

01:00:44 Speaker 26: the start. My thinking is that

01:00:45 Speaker 26: we should be able to identify

01:00:47 Speaker 26: why we're over budget, sorry under

01:00:53 Speaker 26: budget, why we have such great

01:00:55 Speaker 26: surpluses each year. Identify what that

01:00:57 Speaker 26: area is, and budget like one

01:01:01 Speaker 26: percent less this year in that

01:01:08 Speaker 26: area. And if I miss, we've

01:01:09 Speaker 26: Yes, we've still got even if

01:01:14 Speaker 26: we get down to the target

01:01:16 Speaker 26: amount on the on the one-time

01:01:19 Speaker 26: funding, we've still got money there

01:01:21 Speaker 03: to account if we miss. But

01:01:25 Speaker 03: it just seems to me that

01:01:28 Speaker 03: we're we've overtaxed last number of

01:01:30 Speaker 03: years, and we've got a chance

01:01:32 Speaker 03: to make a correction of that.

01:01:34 Speaker 03: I'm not talking about dipping into

01:01:35 Speaker 03: reserves to pay off things. I'm

01:01:37 Speaker 03: talking about adjusting that budget so

01:01:39 Speaker 03: that it's appropriate to what we're

01:01:42 Speaker 03: actually spending. and identifying the area

01:01:44 Speaker 03: that we are overspending. Do we

01:01:49 Speaker 03: have an explanation of where we're

01:01:51 Speaker 03: over budgeting and and raising those

01:01:53 Speaker 03: surpluses? Sure, you. I'll speak to

01:01:55 Speaker 03: twenty twenty four. Twenty twenty four

01:01:58 Speaker 03: was a unique year, in with

01:01:59 Speaker 03: the over four million dollars in

01:02:01 Speaker 03: surplus. a vast chunk of that

01:02:04 Speaker 03: was from long-term care. So we

01:02:06 Speaker 03: received direct care staffing funding, and

01:02:08 Speaker 03: we were receiving about twelve hundred

01:02:11 Speaker 03: and twelve dollars per resident per

01:02:13 Speaker 03: bed in twenty twenty-three. In twenty

01:02:15 Speaker 03: twenty-four, they told us it would

01:02:17 Speaker 03: go to a range of just

01:02:22 Speaker 03: over thirteen hundred dollars a bed

01:02:24 Speaker 03: to just over seventeen hundred dollars

01:02:26 Speaker 03: a bed, with no formula or

01:02:29 Speaker 03: mechanism to determine how that would

01:02:31 Speaker 03: be calculated. I recommended that we

01:02:33 Speaker 03: go with the low end, which

01:02:38 Speaker 03: was just over thirteen hundred, because

01:02:41 Speaker 03: what was going to happen if

01:02:45 Speaker 03: if it if we budgeted fifteen

01:02:47 Speaker 03: hundred and it came in at

01:02:51 Speaker 03: thirteen hundred, we had an in

01:02:56 Speaker 03: year deficit and we had a

01:02:58 Speaker 03: future budget year deficit for twenty

01:03:01 Speaker 03: twenty five to start off the

01:03:05 Speaker 03: hopper. What happened was I would

01:03:06 Speaker 03: call it unprecedented. The ministry gave

01:03:08 Speaker 03: over eighteen hundred. dollars per bed

01:03:13 Speaker 03: for this year, starting in April,

01:03:16 Speaker 03: and again with no calculation. So,

01:03:19 Speaker 03: being the service delivery partner of

01:03:20 Speaker 03: the province, and we're at the

01:03:21 Speaker 03: whim of when they release what

01:03:23 Speaker 03: our funding will be. That's how

01:03:26 Speaker 03: that chunk of long term care

01:03:28 Speaker 03: surplus happened. With the other years,

01:03:31 Speaker 03: one of the the things that

01:03:34 Speaker 03: we've discussed with budget and finance.

01:03:35 Speaker 03: is a number of departments, and

01:03:37 Speaker 03: this isn't by far everything. But

01:03:41 Speaker 03: we've sometimes we have staffing challenges.

01:03:43 Speaker 03: So, in my own department, we

01:03:45 Speaker 03: have been unable to fill mat

01:03:48 Speaker 03: leaves. Then you have someone leave.

01:03:51 Speaker 03: There's a period of time between

01:03:54 Speaker 03: when they leave and when you

01:03:57 Speaker 03: can recruit. And during COVID, we.

01:04:00 Speaker 03: received more funding for various things.

01:04:03 Speaker 03: We're still sitting with a subject

01:04:07 Speaker 03: to year end. We're still sitting

01:04:08 Speaker 03: with a wee bit of money

01:04:12 Speaker 03: for safe restart funding that offset

01:04:14 Speaker 03: some costs. And I will speak

01:04:17 Speaker 03: to we're not just taking last

01:04:19 Speaker 03: year's budget and adding a percentage.

01:04:20 Speaker 03: We're asking staff to be mindful

01:04:22 Speaker 03: of what goes into a budget

01:04:23 Speaker 03: number, and that we've been doing

01:04:26 Speaker 03: with Questica. So if you in

01:04:28 Speaker 03: in my own department staff training,

01:04:30 Speaker 03: here's how much per person. Here's

01:04:36 Speaker 03: what we're thinking of doing, etc.

01:04:39 Speaker 03: And then in say for example

01:04:41 Speaker 03: housing, we might have had some

01:04:43 Speaker 03: surplus because capital projects came in

01:04:45 Speaker 03: more favourable than estimated. So yes,

01:04:47 Speaker 03: those have gone to what we

01:04:49 Speaker 03: brought to committee as a reserve

01:04:51 Speaker 03: transfers with our surplus once we

01:04:54 Speaker 03: knew what our surplus. was, I

01:04:56 Speaker 03: will say we we are very

01:04:59 Speaker 03: mindful of when you use surplus.

01:05:01 Speaker 03: So, if we have a dedicated

01:05:03 Speaker 03: reserve contribution, we put it to

01:05:06 Speaker 03: reserve for a purpose, and we

01:05:08 Speaker 03: ask that it not be withdrawn

01:05:09 Speaker 03: for something other than the purpose.

01:05:13 Speaker 03: So, if I was putting money

01:05:15 Speaker 03: away in paramedic services to buy

01:05:16 Speaker 03: ambulances, well, we're not going out

01:05:22 Speaker 03: and buying a track. unit that

01:05:24 Speaker 03: can go down hills that I've

01:05:26 Speaker 03: seen in other areas, for example.

01:05:29 Speaker 03: I can't think of the right

01:05:32 Speaker 03: word. And then we've also put

01:05:35 Speaker 03: the surplus away to the one-time

01:05:37 Speaker 26: fund and reserve where it's appropriate,

01:05:41 Speaker 26: and that's most often corporate services

01:05:42 Speaker 26: surplus. And we use that for

01:05:44 Speaker 26: other things that will be non-recurring

01:05:45 Speaker 26: needs. And Sue's slides poke to

01:05:47 Speaker 26: that. When I get to the

01:05:49 Speaker 26: finance budget, you'll see in the

01:05:51 Speaker 26: capital we. are proposing we use

01:05:53 Speaker 26: some of that money when we

01:05:57 Speaker 26: have to use to replace our

01:05:58 Speaker 26: accounting software, Great Plains, which is

01:06:00 Speaker 26: nearing end of life. I hope

01:06:02 Speaker 26: that helps to explain. Okay, thank

01:06:03 Speaker 26: you. Follow up, Councillor Body. Thank

01:06:04 Speaker 26: you. By no means did I

01:06:06 Speaker 26: mean to suggest that staff aren't

01:06:08 Speaker 26: trying to to control budgets or

01:06:10 Speaker 26: that they are spending surpluses on.

01:06:15 Speaker 26: anything that they they shouldn't spend

01:06:17 Speaker 26: on—that's not my indication or my

01:06:19 Speaker 26: my thoughts at all. But when

01:06:22 Speaker 26: we come here, we're looking at

01:06:24 Speaker 26: a five percent increase based on

01:06:26 Speaker 26: last year's budget, and I still

01:06:29 Speaker 26: see that there's a amount of

01:06:32 Speaker 26: surplus. Yes, we put money into

01:06:36 Speaker 26: surplus. Yes, we put that into

01:06:39 Speaker 26: capital or into spending in the

01:06:41 Speaker 26: right area, but it's not really

01:06:43 Speaker 26: being honest with our taxpayers if

01:06:44 Speaker 26: we are putting money into surplus

01:06:46 Speaker 26: and we're counting on that in

01:06:48 Speaker 26: the end of the. year to

01:06:52 Speaker 26: spend it down the road, when

01:06:54 Speaker 26: that wasn't what we budgeted for.

01:06:55 Speaker 26: We budgeted for the operations to

01:06:58 Speaker 26: be spent in this given year.

01:07:01 Speaker 26: I mean, it's always better to

01:07:03 Speaker 26: have a surplus than a deficit.

01:07:12 Speaker 26: My dartboard theory: it's always closer

01:07:14 Speaker 26: to be dead centre on what

01:07:16 Speaker 26: you're budgeting for and aim for

01:07:21 Speaker 26: the goal, not surplus or or

01:07:23 Speaker 27: deficit going wider. But I just

01:07:25 Speaker 27: keep looking at this going. you

01:07:27 Speaker 27: know, a one percent decrease on

01:07:30 Speaker 27: the budget this year, taking in

01:07:33 Speaker 27: what we've done with surpluses the

01:07:34 Speaker 27: last couple of years, I just

01:07:36 Speaker 27: think there's got to be a

01:07:38 Speaker 27: way of getting tighter to that

01:07:41 Speaker 27: to that dartboard to that centre.

01:07:43 Speaker 27: I'm frankly hoping that staff have

01:07:44 Speaker 27: ideas before we get back here

01:07:46 Speaker 27: next week of how to get

01:07:50 Speaker 27: us under five percent, and I.

01:07:52 Speaker 27: I think that surplus annually somehow

01:07:54 Speaker 27: needs to be looked at. Thank

01:07:57 Speaker 27: you. Thank you, Warden, and thank

01:07:59 Speaker 27: you for those comments. I think

01:08:00 Speaker 27: with the rollout of the Questica

01:08:03 Speaker 27: software that we're using more frequently

01:08:06 Speaker 27: now this this year, I think

01:08:07 Speaker 27: there's opportunities for us to be

01:08:09 Speaker 27: able to get some more insights.

01:08:12 Speaker 27: We'll use the word data because

01:08:13 Speaker 27: we used that previously. But there

01:08:14 Speaker 27: definitely be more opportunity for us

01:08:17 Speaker 27: to get down to a more

01:08:19 Speaker 27: granular level than what we've ever

01:08:22 Speaker 27: had before. And and so I

01:08:23 Speaker 27: think there's opportunities there for us

01:08:26 Speaker 27: to refine some of those numbers

01:08:27 Speaker 27: as as we go using that

01:08:30 Speaker 27: budget tool. And and and my

01:08:31 Speaker 27: hope is then we can get

01:08:32 Speaker 27: a bit closer to that that

01:08:37 Speaker 27: bullseye, so to speak. In saying

01:08:39 Speaker 27: that. you know, a lot of

01:08:41 Speaker 27: our budgets are based on a

01:08:43 Speaker 27: lot of assumptions. Whether it's provincial

01:08:44 Speaker 14: funding, federal funding, we don't, Mary

01:08:49 Speaker 14: Lou, provide the example of the

01:08:51 Speaker 14: one year why the 2024 surplus

01:08:53 Speaker 14: was so high. We we do

01:08:55 Speaker 14: our best based on the information

01:08:57 Speaker 14: we have at the time when

01:08:59 Speaker 14: we're drafting the budgets, and some

01:09:00 Speaker 14: things change, and sometimes we find

01:09:02 Speaker 14: that out even later in the

01:09:04 Speaker 14: year, the following year, in terms

01:09:05 Speaker 14: of actual funding amounts. Funding amount,

01:09:08 Speaker 14: so so it is. It's it's

01:09:09 Speaker 14: a bit of a challenge, but

01:09:11 Speaker 14: I think I'm hopeful that through

01:09:13 Speaker 14: some of the budgeting tools that

01:09:15 Speaker 14: we'll be able to get closer

01:09:16 Speaker 14: to that bullseye. Okay, thank you.

01:09:18 Speaker 14: Any other final questions for Director

01:09:20 Speaker 14: Spicer at this point in our

01:09:23 Speaker 14: agenda? Okay, not seeing any hands

01:09:23 Speaker 14: here in the room, and nothing

01:09:26 Speaker 14: online. Nope. Okay, great. Well, thank

01:09:27 Speaker 14: you again. We do appreciate looking

01:09:27 Speaker 14: at every single avenue. that is

01:09:29 Speaker 14: possible for this context of this

01:09:31 Speaker 14: particular year, and also making sure

01:09:32 Speaker 14: that we are learning from what

01:09:34 Speaker 14: we've done in the past, and

01:09:37 Speaker 14: that we're not shortchanging decisions that

01:09:39 Speaker 14: will need to be made in

01:09:40 Speaker 14: the future by focusing too too

01:09:42 Speaker 14: far into this particular year on

01:09:43 Speaker 14: its own. It's good to see