Grey County Municipal Candidates Education Session Meeting Transcript — September 18, 2026

00:00:02 speaker_unknown: And I certainly hope that you'll consider incorporating some of the learnings today and the content into your election platform.

00:00:12 SPEAKER_001: So the focus of my discussion today will be to, as Jill had referenced, share some learnings about the social determinants of health, and then in particular,

00:00:22 SPEAKER_001: I'm going to focus on five priority areas throughout the presentation, and give you a little bit of data and a little bit of information on each of these areas.

00:00:35 SPEAKER_001: Much of the information that I'm going to be sharing is from a 2025 report developed by the Foundational Standards team and my colleagues at Public Health.

00:00:44 SPEAKER_001: I'm going to have Jill put the link to the report in the chat for everyone.

00:00:48 SPEAKER_001: I am only going to be touching on a portion of the information in this report, so it's a really good resource to reflect on.

00:00:55 SPEAKER_001: It does have a lot of local data.

00:00:56 SPEAKER_001: It does have a lot of information around the social determinants of health, and the report is broken down by those different factors that impact our health.

00:01:07 SPEAKER_001: I've on the screen just indicated quickly the goal of the report, so to highlight and raise awareness about the social determinants of health, and the impact they have on health outcomes.

00:01:18 SPEAKER_001: We did have three primary key audiences for this report, so particularly residents of Grey and Bruce counties, but in particular our municipal officials and key decision makers across organisations,

00:01:31 SPEAKER_001: as well as any community partners who may be working in the health or related sectors.

00:01:36 SPEAKER_001: The report has three key sections.

00:01:39 SPEAKER_001: So there is an introduction, which explains a little bit more about the social determinants of health, and then goes into a fulsome breakdown of each of those determinants,

00:01:48 SPEAKER_001: and finally completes with a call to action and ideas for discussion and dialogue.

00:01:57 SPEAKER_001: So I guess the first question is, what are the social determinants of health?

00:02:01 SPEAKER_001: This may be a new term to some, and honestly, it's kind of been a buzzword over the last couple decades and gained more prominence among health researchers as an important factor in determining health.

00:02:14 SPEAKER_001: There are 14 most commonly known social determinants of health.

00:02:19 SPEAKER_001: Oh, depending on the source, the numbers can vary slightly, and I think the best way for me to explain the social determinants of health is to use an analogy, and in this case,

00:02:31 SPEAKER_001: it's a tree analogy.

00:02:34 SPEAKER_001: So a lot of people are under the assumption it's the individual lifestyle choices that people make that determine their health, such as exercising, eating well, using substances in moderation.

00:02:48 SPEAKER_001: But it's really all these social determinants of health, having income, having education, employment—that really build the stability and roots of your life—that you can build a foundation upon.

00:03:04 SPEAKER_001: And as people move down the social hierarchy, if you have less income, less education, less employment, we do see that life expectancy is decreased, mortality rates increase, and our risk of disease increases as well.

00:03:21 SPEAKER_001: So, returning to my earlier example, although you may be well intentioned to eat well, if you don't have the income to support purchasing healthy food and the quantity of food you need,

00:03:32 SPEAKER_001: you're really at a disadvantage.

00:03:36 SPEAKER_001: So, I'm going to move now into some of the key social determinants of health, and the one that I'm starting with is the most important one, and that is income,

00:03:45 SPEAKER_001: and the amount of money and resources an individual has goes a long way to determining their health, their living conditions, and control over the life circumstances or stressors that they're presented with.

00:03:57 SPEAKER_001: And we do know that people at the lowest levels of income often have the poorest health outcomes.

00:04:03 SPEAKER_001: They experience higher burdens of illness, decreased life expectancy, and higher rates of mortality.

00:04:12 SPEAKER_001: In terms of our local picture, a few factors here that I'd like to share.

00:04:16 SPEAKER_001: So in 2025, the living wage for Grey and Bruce counties was $24.64 per hour, which is we are actually the highest second rate of living wage in the province.

00:04:31 SPEAKER_001: And as I said earlier, those experiencing a low income are at risk of many health conditions such as heart disease, adult-onset diabetes, and respiratory disease, and life expectancy can be expected to be shorter.

00:04:45 SPEAKER_001: Can be expected to be shortened by up to fifteen years under these conditions.

00:04:51 SPEAKER_001: If we look at low income, our data is a little bit older on this one, but in 2020, about one in nine households in Grey Bruce were living in a low-income measure bracket after tax.

00:05:03 SPEAKER_001: This number varies a little bit, but that's around twenty-six thousand dollars for a single-person household.

00:05:11 SPEAKER_001: If we look at that low-income measure a little bit closer, we do see that age demographics are not affected proportionately.

00:05:18 SPEAKER_001: So we do see that our highest number living in a low-income situation are our children and youth, those ages zero to 16, followed by our older adults, those 65 plus.

00:05:30 SPEAKER_001: Some of those individuals who are living with income supports at that stage of their lives, and then there is a slight decrease during the working years between 18 and 64 years.

00:05:41 SPEAKER_001: So just a good graphic to keep in mind that doesn't affect all individuals at all ages.

00:05:46 SPEAKER_001: Similarly, going to move into housing next, and I'm sure I don't need to explain that housing is extremely important for the health and well-being of individuals.

00:05:59 SPEAKER_001: Having affordable, safe, and sufficient housing in the Greater Bruce region is important, and housing issues disproportionately affect vulnerable populations, including those children and seniors I referenced earlier,

00:06:14 SPEAKER_001: as well as unemployed adults and certain priority populations such as migrant workers.

00:06:21 SPEAKER_001: One thing we've seen lately is heat and cold being certainly a huge factor in our housing.

00:06:28 SPEAKER_001: So if we have an extended heat wave, the physical and mental stressors of dealing with that in a housing situation without air conditioning is challenging.

00:06:41 SPEAKER_001: So ensuring access to safe, affordable housing, easy access to schools and childcare, and transportation options are all needed to support health equity in our housing.

00:06:51 SPEAKER_001: So it's not just about the housing itself, but the proximity to other services as well.

00:06:58 SPEAKER_001: It's important to define affordable housing.

00:07:04 SPEAKER_001: So housing would be considered unaffordable if a family unit is spending thirty percent or more of their total income on their housing costs, and in Grey Bruce, this does apply to a large proportion,

00:07:18 SPEAKER_001: especially our rental community.

00:07:20 SPEAKER_001: So, one in three renters are spending more than thirty percent of their total income on housing, and approximately one in ten homeowners are in that same situation.

00:07:31 SPEAKER_001: If we look at the more vulnerable populations, as of the end of June of this year,

00:07:36 SPEAKER_001: we had over four thousand two hundred households that are on a waitlist for subsidized housing in the two counties, and as of last year,

00:07:45 SPEAKER_001: we knew of two hundred and fourteen households that were considered and experiencing homelessness.

00:07:54 SPEAKER_001: If we do a breakdown of average monthly expenses, we do see that those housing costs or shelter costs are the most significant costs experienced by an individual or a household in Grey Bruce,

00:08:08 SPEAKER_001: those average over sixteen hundred and sixty dollars a month, which is slightly less than the GTA.

00:08:17 SPEAKER_001: But we can see some of those other costs make up the difference there.

00:08:20 SPEAKER_001: And on this slide, I'm focusing specifically on transportation, and I will say that there's rarely a discussion among service providers in Grey Bruce where transportation isn't brought to the table.

00:08:33 SPEAKER_001: It's a significant challenge for many individuals in our community, and we do know that we have limited public transportation options.

00:08:41 SPEAKER_001: And we also know that a large portion of the population does not drive.

00:08:46 SPEAKER_001: That would include youth under the age of sixteen, seniors who may no longer be able to drive or maintain their licence, as well as low-income individuals who can't afford a car,

00:08:56 SPEAKER_001: and those with disabilities who are unable to drive.

00:08:59 SPEAKER_001: So we do see our transportation costs in Grey Bruce are significantly higher than the more urban areas,

00:09:05 SPEAKER_001: with the average cost monthly being almost five hundred dollars compared to less than two hundred in the GTA, and that speaks to the rural nature of dispersed communities in Grey Bruce.

00:09:19 SPEAKER_001: I also want to touch on food security, and again, this is an income-related situation.

00:09:24 SPEAKER_001: So, food security is when people at all times have the physical, social, economic access to safe, sufficient, and nutritious food that meets their dietary needs and food preferences, and as I mentioned,

00:09:37 SPEAKER_001: this is an economic resource issue and is best addressed through an income response.

00:09:43 SPEAKER_001: So it is typically people on lower income that may be able to but cannot afford enough or nutritious enough food to meet their dietary needs.

00:09:55 SPEAKER_001: And we do know our most recent data.

00:09:58 SPEAKER_001: I should have updated the slide.

00:09:58 SPEAKER_001: We do.

00:09:59 SPEAKER_001: Should have updated this slide.

00:10:01 SPEAKER_001: We do have 2024 data, which was very similar.

00:10:05 SPEAKER_001: to this number.

00:10:06 SPEAKER_001: But almost one in five households in Grey Bruce experience food insecurity.

00:10:10 SPEAKER_001: So at some point during the year, they are not able to purchase the quality or quantity of food that they would desire.

00:10:18 SPEAKER_001: With that same 2024 data through the nutritious food basket costing exercise that was completed, we do know that an average family of four individuals, two parents and two children,

00:10:29 SPEAKER_001: spend about twelve hundred and fifty dollars per month for groceries.

00:10:34 SPEAKER_001: We do know this is a growing issue, not only locally but provincially as well, and we have seen a ten percent increase in food insecurity rates over the past ten years.

00:10:47 SPEAKER_001: The final section of my presentation I want to touch on is just a little bit about health equity.

00:10:53 SPEAKER_001: Hopefully, this is a term that people are familiar with, but it means that all groups, individuals, and communities have access to reach their full potential and are not disadvantaged by the conditions in their lives.

00:11:05 SPEAKER_001: And achieving health equity requires acknowledging that some people have unequal starting places.

00:11:13 SPEAKER_001: And I like this diagram to show that unequal starting place.

00:11:20 SPEAKER_001: So on the left-hand side, you can see this diagram shows an example of equality, so everyone is getting a box to stand on to make it easier for them to reach their nutritious snack.

00:11:36 SPEAKER_001: But as you can see, based on the heights of the individual, that equality is not allowing two of those three individuals to reach their goal.

00:11:44 SPEAKER_001: When we look at equity, it means that people may be requiring more supports and more services to reach that equitable goal.

00:11:53 SPEAKER_001: So in the first instance, the person is receiving one support and are able to reach their apple for their snack,

00:12:00 SPEAKER_001: whereas the third individual has three supports in place to be able to reach that same goal.

00:12:09 SPEAKER_001: One tool I would like to just touch base on as I begin concluding my section of the presentation is the health equity tool that's been developed by the Poverty Task Force in partnership with Grey

00:12:22 SPEAKER_001: Bruce Public Health,

00:12:23 SPEAKER_001: and I know Jill has a lot of experience in her role in developing and adapting this tool.

00:12:31 SPEAKER_001: I think Jill is going to throw the link to this tool into the chat for everyone for future reference as well.

00:12:37 SPEAKER_001: And that link will take you to this page on your screen that does have a few training modules attached that people can view, as well as an interactive version of this tool,

00:12:48 SPEAKER_001: which I don't have on my screen, but you are able to click on the different sections around the tool, and it will give you a drop-down list of resources, tools, and tips,

00:12:59 SPEAKER_001: and links for more information that you're able to access if you're particularly interested in any of these tools.

00:13:06 SPEAKER_001: I'm just going to interrupt.

00:13:07 SPEAKER_001: I don't know what's up, but unfortunately, I can't access the chat.

00:13:11 SPEAKER_001: Francesca can, but so we were behind on a few of things.

00:13:15 SPEAKER_001: But we will definitely get the link to the Grey Bruce Health Equity Tool and Health Starts Up, and Francesca is just going to add those in, so they are linked there.

00:13:27 SPEAKER_001: Perfect, thank you, Jill.

00:13:30 SPEAKER_001: Yeah, so this is a tool you can certainly use.

00:13:32 SPEAKER_001: I encourage you to take a peek.

00:13:33 SPEAKER_001: It does give you again much more information than I am sharing today on many of the factors that you can see on this tool, and it's a fun interactive one to make use of.

00:13:45 SPEAKER_001: And I will conclude not by going into any detail on any of these bullets on your screen, but just to say these are some of the areas where ongoing local discussion continues.

00:13:57 SPEAKER_001: There may be questions or discussion following the presentations this morning related to these topics, but all are integral in moving kind of this health equity, the social determinants of health,

00:14:09 SPEAKER_001: and the health of our local communities and residents forward.

00:14:14 SPEAKER_001: And with that, I will just leave my email and phone number on the screen for a moment.

00:14:19 SPEAKER_001: If anyone would like to jot that down, certainly you can reach out at any time after the presentation today or in the future,

00:14:26 SPEAKER_001: and I'd be happy to chat or answer any questions that you might have.

00:14:30 SPEAKER_001: Thanks, Jason.

00:14:31 SPEAKER_001: While that's still up, we did have a few questions in the chat that weren't actually content related; it was more definition.

00:14:39 SPEAKER_003: So there were two questions that came up: "Please define household in the data that you shared?"

00:14:45 SPEAKER_003: and people were wondering whether the thirty percent around a household was gross income or net income.

00:14:55 SPEAKER_003: So I wasn't sure if you're able to answer those questions around your data.

00:14:59 SPEAKER_001: Ooh, good questions, both good ones.

00:15:01 SPEAKER_001: I believe I'm not sure there's a standard definition of household beyond anyone owning a set dwelling or renting a set dwelling.

00:15:10 SPEAKER_001: I don't think it specifically references family size, but I can certainly follow up on that one with our Healthy Data Analyst just to confirm the definition there.

00:15:22 SPEAKER_001: And then net versus gross income.

00:15:27 SPEAKER_001: I believe Jill, you might be able to weigh in as well as I would, but I feel like those are based on net income numbers.

00:15:35 Jill Umblak and I am the: I'm pretty sure in calculating the living wage calculation, that is using the net.

00:15:42 Jill Umblak and I am the: But we'll verify and get back to us.

00:15:44 Jill Umblak and I am the: We'll also share out with everybody what the latest living wage was calculated last year, and let people know as well as we move forward with this year's calculation.

00:15:57 Jill Umblak and I am the: So we will move on to our next presenter, and I see that there are larger questions coming into the chat, and Francesca will capture those,

00:16:06 Jill Umblak and I am the: and we'll bring those around after we hear from Kim Wingrove and Rob Martin.

00:16:13 Jill Umblak and I am the: So Kim, I'm going to do an introduction.

00:16:15 Jill Umblak and I am the: Do you want to pull up your slides while I'm doing that?

00:16:19 Jill Umblak and I am the: Certainly.

00:16:20 Jill Umblak and I am the: Thanks.

00:16:21 Jill Umblak and I am the: Fantastic.

00:16:21 Jill Umblak and I am the: So Kim Wingrove is a senior municipal leader with more than 35 years of experience in local and provincial government.

00:16:28 Jill Umblak and I am the: She served as the chief administrative officer for Grey County for nearly a decade, from 2015 to 2025, where she was responsible for a broad range of municipal and social services, including Ontario Works, child care,

00:16:45 Jill Umblak and I am the: social housing, paramedic services, and long-term care.

00:16:48 Jill Umblak and I am the: She led the county through major initiatives involving supportive outreach services, or you may know it as the SOS, community paramedicine, emergency housing supports, long-term care redevelopment, and the COVID-19 response.

00:17:04 Jill Umblak and I am the: She has also served as CAO for several Ontario municipalities, and most recently as the interim CAO for the municipality of Concordia, and she has held senior leadership positions with the Ontario government.

00:17:18 Jill Umblak and I am the: Kim brings extensive experience in municipal governance, community development, and intergovernmental collaboration to the discussion of poverty and the role each level of government plays in responding to it.

00:17:31 Jill Umblak and I am the: Her extensive experience working with municipal councils, staff, council staff, community organisations, and other levels of government gives her valuable insight into how government can collaborate to address poverty, homelessness, and other complex community challenges.

00:17:48 Jill Umblak and I am the: So we welcome Kim as our next panelist.

00:17:53 Jill Umblak and I am the: Thank you so much, Jill.

00:17:54 Jill Umblak and I am the: Can everybody see my slides?

00:17:56 Jill Umblak and I am the: Okay, and is my sound all right?

00:17:58 Jill Umblak and I am the: You are good.

00:17:59 SPEAKER_006: Okay, thank you.

00:18:01 SPEAKER_006: So good morning, everyone, and again, thank you to the Poverty Task Force for the opportunity to speak about the roles of the different levels of government in addressing poverty in our communities.

00:18:12 SPEAKER_006: Each level of government has a range of responsibilities, and underpinning all of our efforts is a critical network of community agencies, organisations, and volunteers.

00:18:23 SPEAKER_006: I hope I can help by bringing some understanding of who does what, where municipalities have influence, and where working together matters.

00:18:32 SPEAKER_006: In this morning's presentation.

00:18:35 SPEAKER_006: So Jason's done a fabulous job of talking about the social determinants of health and some of the considerations where you know poverty is concerned.

00:18:45 SPEAKER_006: And so just to cover that briefly, when we talk about poverty, we're really talking about a range of interconnected issues: housing, access to healthy food, employment, transportation, health, and then access to other services.

00:19:00 SPEAKER_006: The causes and impacts of poverty are complex and interconnected.

00:19:05 SPEAKER_006: It's about much more than not having enough money.

00:19:08 SPEAKER_006: Oops, I apologize.

00:19:10 SPEAKER_006: We'll skip around here.

00:19:12 SPEAKER_006: For example, someone may be unable to find or keep employment because they don't have transportation or affordable childcare.

00:19:21 SPEAKER_006: Low income then makes housing unaffordable.

00:19:24 SPEAKER_006: Housing instability affects health and the ability to maintain employment.

00:19:28 SPEAKER_006: And then once someone is struggling with a number of these issues at the same time, it becomes increasingly harder to get out of poverty.

00:19:39 SPEAKER_006: So, what are the roles of government?

00:19:41 SPEAKER_006: We'll start with the federal government, and the federal government has the greatest influence, really, over income and income security through taxation, employment insurance, and things like the Canada Child Benefit, Old Age Security,

00:19:58 SPEAKER_006: Guaranteed Income Supplement, those sorts of examples.

00:20:02 SPEAKER_006: I think the point that I wanted to make most critically on this slide is that assisting people to file their taxes annually is critical to those individuals securing benefit entitlements.

00:20:17 SPEAKER_006: People used to think, "Well, I didn't make any money; there really wouldn't be any purpose to filing my taxes," and that's simply not the case.

00:20:27 SPEAKER_006: I think all of us can appreciate too that sometimes, for the best of us, filing your taxes is a complicated endeavor.

00:20:34 SPEAKER_006: And so,

00:20:34 SPEAKER_006: I really want to acknowledge the work that the United Way of Bruce Grey has done to organise community volunteer tax clinics across Grey Bruce to make sure that people do get access to things like

00:20:48 SPEAKER_006: the Trillium benefit or an HST credit,

00:20:51 SPEAKER_006: no matter what their income.

00:20:54 SPEAKER_006: So, moving on from there, we talk about the province.

00:20:58 SPEAKER_006: While municipalities encounter the consequences of poverty every day, many of the levers that determine household income and access to support sit at the provincial and federal level.

00:21:12 SPEAKER_006: The province has a very significant role in addressing poverty in our communities.

00:21:17 SPEAKER_006: It establishes many of the income support and social services programmes, determines eligibility thresholds and benefit levels, and provides significant funding for these programmes.

00:21:32 SPEAKER_006: You can see on the slide where Jason talked about what a living wage was in Grey Bruce at twenty-four dollars and sixty cents,

00:21:42 SPEAKER_006: and you can see on the slide what minimum wage is right now.

00:21:45 SPEAKER_006: Ontario Works, Ontario Disability Support Programme, childcare subsidies, etc.

00:21:51 SPEAKER_006: Beyond the pure income supports, there are other programmes that influence the quality of living and the access to housing and services that people have.

00:22:08 SPEAKER_006: The role of paramedic services as frontline community support workers is something that's been emerging.

00:22:14 SPEAKER_006: The Planning Act provides some parameters around which municipalities can really influence the provision of affordable housing in their communities.

00:22:28 SPEAKER_006: One thing that I think is pertinent for yourselves, as elected officials or looking to be elected officials, is that funding pressures can create really difficult decisions for municipalities and counties.

00:22:41 SPEAKER_006: For example, when the provincial funding for emergency housing or homelessness services is fully committed, then that comes to the municipality to consider how to respond.

00:22:54 SPEAKER_006: The demand hasn't stopped, but you're at the end of the funding.

00:22:59 SPEAKER_006: Are you going to the levy?

00:23:00 SPEAKER_006: Are you going to reallocate funds?

00:23:02 SPEAKER_006: So there are sometimes some very difficult conversations that have to happen around that.

00:23:09 SPEAKER_006: A little another little note around Ontario Works; for example, a single person receiving Ontario Works notes on the slide can receive up to seven hundred and thirty-three dollars a month, depending on their circumstances.

00:23:23 SPEAKER_006: Once they've been receiving assistance for three months, then the first two hundred dollars of monthly net employment income is exempt, but fifty percent of any earnings above two hundred dollars is exempt as well,

00:23:40 SPEAKER_006: and the remainder reduces the amount of Ontario Works assistance that you received.

00:23:45 SPEAKER_006: So while employment can increase someone's total income, the interaction between wages and social assistance is something to consider when we're thinking about poverty and the financial realities facing low-income households.

00:24:05 SPEAKER_006: To be honest with you, we could spend two days talking about the complexities of these funding models and the interactions between the different programmes.

00:24:17 SPEAKER_006: I'll just leave it to say that they're very complex.

00:24:20 SPEAKER_006: Some are funded through provincial revenues.

00:24:22 SPEAKER_006: Others involve federal-provincial agreements, and those agreements vary from province to province.

00:24:29 SPEAKER_006: So similar programmes can operate quite differently across the country.

00:24:35 SPEAKER_006: Childcare is an example of that.

00:24:37 SPEAKER_006: See Wellk, the Canada-wide early learning and child care programme.

00:24:40 SPEAKER_006: In Ontario, there's a maximum base fee of $22 a day for eligible children in participating licensed programmes, but in Quebec, for example, the 2026 reduced contribution for subsidized childcare is $9.65.

00:24:56 SPEAKER_006: So these differences matter because the cost of accessing childcare can affect a family's ability to work, particularly for households with low employment income.

00:25:08 SPEAKER_006: Moving on from there, and to bring things a little closer to home, I'll talk now about the responsibilities that the counties have that are potentially different than the local municipality or lower tiers' responsibilities.

00:25:22 SPEAKER_006: So Grey and Bruce, like all the other counties and regions, are designated by the province as the system service manager for housing and homelessness services.

00:25:33 SPEAKER_006: They deliver the early learning and licensed childcare programmes that I just talked about under agreements with the province.

00:25:40 SPEAKER_006: County staff are the front line in communicating the programme guidelines to the public and ensuring that the rules are followed.

00:25:49 SPEAKER_006: There are extensive reporting requirements back to the province.

00:25:53 SPEAKER_006: Similarly, they administer Ontario Works, ODSP programmes on behalf of the province.

00:25:59 SPEAKER_006: And you know, just again for reference, a great county's average monthly Ontario Works caseload is about thirteen hundred and seventy-three in twenty twenty-six.

00:26:13 SPEAKER_006: That's sixteen hundred and twenty-four adults, a few dependent adults, and a thousand children.

00:26:21 SPEAKER_006: Bruce County reported seventeen seven hundred and fifteen households on O.W. in the first half of twenty twenty-six, and this is kind of a stable number over last year.

00:26:34 SPEAKER_006: Paramedic services, as I mentioned, has taken on and greatly expanded role beyond nine-one-one emergency response.

00:26:41 SPEAKER_006: You'll hear reference to street outreach services like SOS and Coast, and those have been a tremendous asset in bringing access to medical care and offering connection to treatment services, housing services, etc.,

00:26:59 SPEAKER_006: to people who need them who might not otherwise easily find that connection.

00:27:05 SPEAKER_006: Paramedics are going to where the individuals are and meeting them where they are to have those conversations.

00:27:13 SPEAKER_006: Finally, the county planning department, through its official plan policies and through the adoption of something like a countywide community improvement programme, can support the creation of a range of housing choices, including affordable housing.

00:27:30 SPEAKER_006: Just a little bit more detail on the housing aspect of the county's responsibilities.

00:27:36 SPEAKER_006: So there talks about the operation of social housing, and there are sixteen hundred and ninety-five social housing units across Grey and Bruce.

00:27:45 SPEAKER_006: There are also, I think, eleven nonprofit organisations that provide affordable housing.

00:27:52 SPEAKER_006: Some specifically created to support seniors or First Nations.

00:27:57 SPEAKER_006: That the counties provide some funding assistance to as well.

00:28:03 SPEAKER_006: Supportive housing is a really significant need.

00:28:08 SPEAKER_006: It helps people who aren't yet ready or able to live alone in their own apartment or a private space, with help with medications or food or onsite counseling to help them find their feet again.

00:28:22 SPEAKER_006: There are also sustainable housing benefits.

00:28:27 SPEAKER_006: So where there is, as Jason mentioned, a very long waiting list for social housing, where we can find places for people in market rental housing.

00:28:39 SPEAKER_006: There's, with the appropriate budget allocations, the ability to provide a sustainable housing benefit,

00:28:47 SPEAKER_006: which makes up the difference between what someone's income would allow them to afford for rent and the cost of that market rental.

00:28:59 SPEAKER_006: People with no means and no shelter can be supported for a short period of time in emergency shelter through the short-term shelter programme.

00:29:10 SPEAKER_006: There's just so much here, and in no way could I do justice to the work that goes into assisting people to obtain and maintain safe and secure places to call home.

00:29:23 SPEAKER_006: There are many, many programmes here, each with their own budget allocation.

00:29:28 SPEAKER_006: The counties do this work in collaboration with several nonprofit organisations and agencies, and as you've seen, demand has skyrocketed, and funding sometimes has not kept pace.

00:29:44 SPEAKER_006: Moving on from there to your local municipality, and I want to acknowledge that local municipalities are often the face of government to local residents.

00:29:54 SPEAKER_006: People are going to come to you for answers because you're there, and that's the easiest person or place to connect with.

00:30:04 SPEAKER_006: But that does create challenges.

00:30:07 SPEAKER_006: As you've seen, the county has significant responsibilities and programmes that form the base of the municipal response.

00:30:14 SPEAKER_006: And sometimes it will be appropriate to redirect people back to the county to have those conversations.

00:30:21 SPEAKER_006: But your local municipality controls other things that can have significant impact, like land use and zoning, to provide economic opportunities, your municipal infrastructure, your facilities and programmes,

00:30:34 SPEAKER_006: and making sure that those are affordable and accessible, and other things like just upholding the building code and property standards so that people have safe places to live.

00:30:45 SPEAKER_006: Your local municipality might have adopted a CIP or community improvement plan that facilitates your ability to provide municipal funding or land for affordable housing.

00:30:55 SPEAKER_006: Your economic development officer is a liaison between the business community and the labour market,

00:31:01 SPEAKER_006: and high schools and post-secondary institutions when it comes to training opportunities and making sure there are jobs for people and people for jobs.

00:31:11 SPEAKER_006: And then the other part that's so local is that people living in poverty are much more vulnerable in a crisis, as Jason mentioned, and whether that's heat or an emergency,

00:31:23 SPEAKER_006: community resources and support can make the difference between life and death in an emergency.

00:31:31 SPEAKER_006: So, what can a municipal councillor do?

00:31:35 SPEAKER_006: I think first and foremost, your presence here today speaks volumes about what you can do because your understanding is so critical.

00:31:43 SPEAKER_006: Understand what is and isn't a municipal responsibility as you go through your term.

00:31:49 SPEAKER_006: Ask how low-income residents are considered when you're having discussions at the council table.

00:31:57 SPEAKER_006: Make time to talk to people with lived experience about the challenges they face in your community, and you know some of the things that they have to deal with,

00:32:07 SPEAKER_006: like paying eight dollars to do a load of laundry at the laundromat.

00:32:12 SPEAKER_006: Connect and build relationships with county staff and community organisations, and as an informed elected representative, you can communicate local needs to your MP and to your MPP.

00:32:30 SPEAKER_006: As municipal leaders, you won't be able to eliminate poverty, and you shouldn't be expected to.

00:32:35 SPEAKER_006: But you will make decisions every day that affect the conditions in which people live.

00:32:41 SPEAKER_006: The opportunity for municipal governments is to understand where it has influence, work effectively with the county, the province, and the feds, and build strong partnerships with the organisations already doing this work in our communities.

00:32:54 SPEAKER_006: I can't emphasize enough the critical role that our partner agencies played, and I made an attempt to list some of them on this slide.

00:33:04 SPEAKER_006: But there are so many more.

00:33:06 SPEAKER_006: I mean, this slide alone is missing Habitat for Humanity and the Women's Centre of Grey Bruce.

00:33:10 SPEAKER_006: But there are so many committed, wonderful people behind each of these organisations.

00:33:16 SPEAKER_006: As the boots on the ground, they are often aware of emerging issues first.

00:33:21 SPEAKER_006: They are also wizards at accomplishing amazing things with a shoestring budget, and we owe them so much.

00:33:31 SPEAKER_006: A few resources that I would put forward for your review when you had a moment: the Association of Municipalities Ontario has run in 2005 and again now in 2026 a report called Municipal Six,

00:33:44 SPEAKER_006: a report called Municipalities Under Pressure that speaks to some of the challenges of poverty and homelessness.

00:33:51 SPEAKER_006: The Maytree Foundation, the Community Foundation of Grey Bruce's Vital Signs report will give you important background and frame of reference.

00:34:01 SPEAKER_006: And both Bruce County and Grey County, like all of the upper tiers, are required to provide a housing and homelessness plan and to keep that updated.

00:34:12 SPEAKER_006: And those are posted on their websites, and so you can visit those and get a lot of really excellent information about what's happening on the ground.

00:34:21 SPEAKER_006: So sincere thanks to you for listening and to the Poverty Task Force for the opportunity to speak to you this morning.

00:34:28 SPEAKER_006: Thanks.

00:34:30 Jill Umblak and I am the: Thank you so much, Kim.

00:34:31 Jill Umblak and I am the: Francesca has been gathering questions and grouping them together, and also popping links in the chat.

00:34:37 Jill Umblak and I am the: There is also another way to find out most of the reports that have been referenced by Kim and by Jason; they are also found on the Bruce Grey Data Information Sharing Collaborative, or BGDISC.

00:34:53 Jill Umblak and I am the: So, if we have an open data portal where we pull everything together, and it's all the latest reports and information related to Grey Bruce, specifically data,

00:35:05 Jill Umblak and I am the: you'll find a couple of dashboards that are there with regards to collecting data on food insecurity; there are dashboards from public health on our overall stats, can data for the area.

00:35:18 Jill Umblak and I am the: It's really good for building information for your presentations, your debates, that type of thing.

00:35:25 Jill Umblak and I am the: To really delve deeper into what is happening locally.

00:35:29 Jill Umblak and I am the: All of the reports that Kim referenced and Jason referenced are on BGDISC.

00:35:34 Jill Umblak and I am the: The Vital Signs report also is the latest report that we put together in collaboration.

00:35:39 Jill Umblak and I am the: I forgot to actually introduce myself when we started this event.

00:35:44 Jill Umblak and I am the: To just say that my name is Jill Umblak and I am the coordinator for the Bruce Grey Poverty Task Force.

00:35:50 Jill Umblak and I am the: I am based out of the United Way of Grey Bruce.

00:35:53 Jill Umblak and I am the: So the task force is an initiative started by the United Way.

00:35:58 Jill Umblak and I am the: So kudos to them.

00:36:00 Jill Umblak and I am the: We also work in partnership with both Grey County and Bruce County Human Services and Social Services, so that makes up our steering committee,

00:36:10 Jill Umblak and I am the: and together we work on working with government and nonprofits and local community volunteers to address poverty-related issues.

00:36:21 Jill Umblak and I am the: It takes all of us to come together to do that, and no one has enough resources.

00:36:26 Jill Umblak and I am the: And I think that's part of being part of Grey Bruce: we seem to come together because you know no one's got that million-dollar portfolio sitting in their back pocket.

00:36:37 Jill Umblak and I am the: So we have to work together, but also we are actually well known for collaboration locally before we are mandated to do so by any province or federal governments.

00:36:49 Jill Umblak and I am the: So more cooperation and more moving forward.

00:36:54 Jill Umblak and I am the: We have with us as our next panelist, former West Grey Police Chief Rob Martin, and so you know a lot of these issues that we're seeing with more street-involved people, more complex cases,

00:37:08 Jill Umblak and I am the: also brings in working with the police.

00:37:11 Jill Umblak and I am the: And Rob Martin, who is the former chief of the West Grey Police Services, and I know Rob.

00:37:16 Jill Umblak and I am the: There's quite a few people from West Grey on the call today who will know you.

00:37:20 Jill Umblak and I am the: Rob served from 2016 until his retirement in June 2025.

00:37:26 Jill Umblak and I am the: He served in West Grey; a 37-year career in law enforcement.

00:37:32 Jill Umblak and I am the: And prior to serving in West Grey, he served 28 years with the York Regional Police.

00:37:38 Jill Umblak and I am the: He has a master's degree from the University of Guelph, College of Economics and Management, and during his career, he was seconded to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

00:37:48 Jill Umblak and I am the: So he's been with the RCMP, and as a training facilitator for the Drug Evaluation and Classification Programme, and he was the coordinator for this programme for the Province of Ontario.

00:38:02 Jill Umblak and I am the: So extensive experience locally as well as provincially and across Canada; he has also served internationally.

00:38:11 Jill Umblak and I am the: He was a representative on the International Association of Chiefs of Police Technical Advisory Panel on Drug Issues.

00:38:19 Jill Umblak and I am the: He is also instructed on field sobriety testing and drug impairment in all of the Canadian provinces, Florida, Arizona, and New York State.

00:38:30 Jill Umblak and I am the: Not only that, but he's also testified before the Human Rights and Legal Issues Committee of the Canadian Senate as a subject matter expert on Bill C-2 tackling violent crime in 2008.

00:38:43 Jill Umblak and I am the: This is incredible work that he's been doing throughout his career.

00:38:48 Jill Umblak and I am the: Rob has championed community policing and the importance of partnerships among police, municipalities, health, and social service organisations.

00:38:57 Jill Umblak and I am the: His experience has reinforced his belief that poverty-related challenges, including homelessness, mental health concerns, and substance use, cannot be solved through enforcement alone.

00:39:11 Jill Umblak and I am the: They require coordinated community responses that address underlying social and economic conditions.

00:39:19 Jill Umblak and I am the: So we welcome Rob to speak to this.

00:39:21 Jill Umblak and I am the: And Rob, if you've got a chance to share your screen, you should be able to do so and be able to move along your slides.

00:39:31 Jill Umblak and I am the: I will try to share my screen.

00:39:32 Jill Umblak and I am the: I will make no promises on what comes out.

00:39:36 Jill Umblak and I am the: International, you know, guru, and yet we come back to: can we share our screen?

00:39:43 Jill Umblak and I am the: You know, Rob.

00:39:44 Jill Umblak and I am the: Sometimes the little technical things in life.

00:39:46 Jill Umblak and I am the: I can't currently share and work the chat with a revised, updated version.

00:39:51 Jill Umblak and I am the: So, are you getting close to sharing here?

00:39:57 Jill Umblak and I am the: Oh, there we go.

00:40:00 Jill Umblak and I am the: Can everyone see that?

00:40:01 Jill Umblak and I am the: Okay, it's a very short presentation.

00:40:05 Jill Umblak and I am the: Kim, or sorry, Jill.

00:40:06 Jill Umblak and I am the: Thank you so much, Francesca.

00:40:08 SPEAKER_008: Thank you for the opportunity to be here.

00:40:10 SPEAKER_008: It has been said before; Kim did pass it on.

00:40:14 SPEAKER_008: We have a unique situation in Grey and Bruce Counties.

00:40:17 SPEAKER_008: The municipal coordination, Grey and Bruce Police Services, our OPP partners, and our municipal agencies are recognized for the collaborative approach we take everywhere, every day on issues,

00:40:29 SPEAKER_008: and that also leads down to our other partners in the social services in the county.

00:40:33 SPEAKER_008: So we are ahead of the curve in terms of communication and getting there as we work together through these issues with the group.

00:40:41 SPEAKER_008: There was a slide that came up.

00:40:43 SPEAKER_008: I'll answer the question quickly, just to get David's answer.

00:40:47 SPEAKER_008: Yes, the Waterloo decision did state in the judge's ruling that if you're going to take down or remove an encampment,

00:40:55 SPEAKER_008: you better have someone for them to go to an emergency shelter somewhere else to go, which does cause challenges for us.

00:41:04 SPEAKER_008: But that was part of the ruling, and it is something that as policing and as our social services partners go forward, is something that we have to deal with:

00:41:11 SPEAKER_008: what we're going to do and where we're going to move these people if we can move them or get them out of the circumstances they're in and get them true help.

00:41:25 SPEAKER_008: First off, I thought I'd talk about the police.

00:41:27 SPEAKER_008: We see them all the time.

00:41:29 SPEAKER_008: We are the de facto responders because we are available twenty-four, seven.

00:41:34 SPEAKER_008: We do the work because we're out there.

00:41:37 SPEAKER_008: We're visible.

00:41:38 SPEAKER_008: People call us.

00:41:39 SPEAKER_008: We are.

00:41:40 SPEAKER_008: We have our provincial policing partners, which do the exact same job.

00:41:44 SPEAKER_008: There is no confusion.

00:41:45 SPEAKER_008: Every police officer is a provincial constable under legislation and has powers all throughout the province, but the role of the police is changing.

00:41:53 SPEAKER_008: We have certain legislative requirements directly under the Community Safety and Policing Act, and I will finally say thank you to the Province of Ontario for putting crime prevention first rather than law enforcement.

00:42:06 SPEAKER_008: Because if we're preventing crime and dealing with these issues before, we are saving money in the back end.

00:42:12 SPEAKER_008: We are saving money in the court systems.

00:42:14 SPEAKER_008: We're saving money in the victim services part of it, but crime prevention is our biggest job now, as of 2019.

00:42:22 SPEAKER_008: Law enforcement, maintaining public peace, emergency response, assistance to victims of crime, and our catch-all—any other prescribed policing function—that seems to get dropped onto us.

00:42:33 SPEAKER_008: That is anything that we are legislatively responsible for.

00:42:37 SPEAKER_008: But we talk about this role that we have since the early 1990s.

00:42:41 SPEAKER_008: Our role has changed.

00:42:43 SPEAKER_008: We are seeing more engagement with the mental health side, with our poverty side, with our social services side, and I know that I've been in meetings with Kim, Francesca, and Jill,

00:42:54 SPEAKER_008: and I will say this over and over and over again: poverty, homelessness, and mental health and addictions are not a law enforcement problem; they are a public health problem.

00:43:04 SPEAKER_008: If they venture into criminality, yes, then we will respond.

00:43:08 SPEAKER_008: We have an obligation to do so.

00:43:10 SPEAKER_008: But dealing with addiction, sicknesses, poverty issues, and homelessness, these should be in the realm of social services and not bunched into the police.

00:43:20 SPEAKER_008: It's not what we're trained for.

00:43:22 SPEAKER_008: It's not what we do.

00:43:23 SPEAKER_008: We have tons of training now.

00:43:25 SPEAKER_008: Thirty-seven years ago, there was not much training in mental health.

00:43:34 SPEAKER_008: Now we are legislated to do incredible amounts of de-escalation.

00:43:38 SPEAKER_008: We do a lot of work with our partner police services in this to prevent the incidents that we see, responding to these, and some of these people are not completely lucid.

00:43:49 SPEAKER_008: We have incidences.

00:43:50 SPEAKER_008: We deal with the media backlash that we see all the time about how the police are beating people, treating people inappropriately.

00:43:57 SPEAKER_008: That is not the case.

00:43:58 SPEAKER_008: And I'm not here to wave the flag for policing in any way, shape, or form.

00:44:02 SPEAKER_008: I will just get back.

00:44:03 SPEAKER_008: But it's a problem for law enforcement dealing with things that we keep getting dropped onto us that we don't want to do, and we will respond to them.

00:44:13 SPEAKER_008: But again, we're not the experts, and we're not the ones who should be dealing with this.

00:44:17 SPEAKER_008: It takes a community approach to deal with these types of issues that we're dealing with.

00:44:23 SPEAKER_008: So, back in 1994, as we saw the cuts coming to our mental health, it's interesting that the Chief Coroner of Ontario, James Young at the time,

00:44:34 SPEAKER_008: said the police are now the frontline face of mental health in the province of Ontario.

00:44:38 SPEAKER_008: What we want to do is go back to not being the face of mental health and simply being a support and part of the solution rather than the response.

00:44:50 SPEAKER_008: My slides: We can't arrest our way out of poverty.

00:44:55 SPEAKER_008: No homelessness.

00:44:56 SPEAKER_008: No mental health and addictions.

00:44:57 SPEAKER_008: No, we can't.

00:44:59 SPEAKER_008: Why can't we?

00:45:00 SPEAKER_008: There's a ton of reasons why we can't, and we'll go through some of those very quickly.

00:45:07 SPEAKER_008: Sorry, I'm having a problem with my mouse.

00:45:11 SPEAKER_008: Our limitations of arrest-centered approaches.

00:45:13 SPEAKER_008: Our prisons are full.

00:45:15 SPEAKER_008: Our prisons in Ontario are running between 130 and 150 percent capacity all the time.

00:45:22 SPEAKER_008: We've seen in some jurisdictions the Walkerton Brant jails are going to be reopened.

00:45:27 SPEAKER_008: Our province announced in August 2026 three billion dollars over ten years to reopen jails.

00:45:33 SPEAKER_008: What could three billion dollars do to our social services?

00:45:36 SPEAKER_008: Due to our social services, rather than incarcerating people that should not be in the system, high costs to keep a prisoner in Ontario in the provincial system is one hundred eighteen thousand dollars a year.

00:45:49 SPEAKER_008: To keep them in the federal system is exactly one hundred fifty thousand three hundred ninety-six dollars, according to Corrections Canada.

00:45:58 SPEAKER_008: That is a lot of money, and if we're running at capacity, we're full.

00:46:01 SPEAKER_008: That money can be used somewhere else.

00:46:05 SPEAKER_008: If we put them into the system, they now have the stigma attached to them of being quote a criminal.

00:46:12 SPEAKER_008: That impacts job opportunities.

00:46:15 SPEAKER_008: That impacts housing.

00:46:17 SPEAKER_008: Everything is connected in one way or another, and it causes impacts.

00:46:22 SPEAKER_008: And I honestly don't believe that we should be putting the mentally ill into our correction system.

00:46:28 SPEAKER_008: It's not where they're going to get the appropriate help.

00:46:30 SPEAKER_008: We are not going to solve poverty of people not being able to pay their bills by putting them in jail.

00:46:35 SPEAKER_008: We're making it worse, and our recidivism rates—forty percent—is what our nation sees all the time.

00:46:44 SPEAKER_008: Here, when you talk to the chiefs of police, our recidivism rate is about sixty percent.

00:46:49 SPEAKER_008: Same people, same issues.

00:46:51 SPEAKER_008: A lot of those issues are directly from homelessness, survival crimes, crimes of desperation.

00:46:57 SPEAKER_008: They are from mental illness and addictions, which they can't control because they are truly sick.

00:47:02 SPEAKER_008: And where are we focusing our efforts?

00:47:04 SPEAKER_008: Is it on the true cause of the crimes, or is it the residual people who are the victims of the people who are bringing poison to our communities?

00:47:11 SPEAKER_008: And bottom line is, we do not address the root causes.

00:47:17 SPEAKER_008: We are bandaiding the solution by involving the police and the criminal justice system.

00:47:21 SPEAKER_008: That's the best way to put it right now.

00:47:29 SPEAKER_008: It was said during my introduction.

00:47:31 SPEAKER_008: We can't solve complex social issues.

00:47:34 SPEAKER_008: We don't have the capacity.

00:47:35 SPEAKER_008: We do not have the budgets as police services.

00:47:37 SPEAKER_008: And again, it is not our role to solve problems.

00:47:41 SPEAKER_008: We will manage them.

00:47:42 SPEAKER_008: We will deal with crime issues.

00:47:44 SPEAKER_008: We will deal with those types of things.

00:47:45 SPEAKER_008: But we need to get back to what the core function of law enforcement is—not being the social workers that we are not trained for,

00:47:52 SPEAKER_008: and we're not the experts in this type of thing at all.

00:47:55 SPEAKER_008: But if we're going to have true change, we need to start looking at the real problems: livable wages, substance abuse, substance abuse and treatment.

00:48:04 SPEAKER_008: We have to support these people.

00:48:06 SPEAKER_008: They're not criminals.

00:48:07 SPEAKER_008: And I will be very honest to everyone right here: full disclosure.

00:48:10 SPEAKER_008: In my family, I have mental health and addiction issues.

00:48:13 SPEAKER_008: Not myself.

00:48:14 SPEAKER_008: I've seen what it does to people, and I'm going to see what it do to a family.

00:48:18 SPEAKER_008: And again, not a police issue.

00:48:21 SPEAKER_008: And community resilience.

00:48:23 SPEAKER_008: The community has to be behind us.

00:48:24 SPEAKER_008: If you look at the news today, there is a horrible article in a very large periodical for the city, talking about zombie zones in the city, but they're dealing with homelessness, poverty, and addictions.

00:48:37 SPEAKER_008: When our media is calling them out of control zombies, no-go zones, what message are we sending to the public?

00:48:46 SPEAKER_008: And that is part of the problem: is the community perception of what the issue actually is.

00:48:50 SPEAKER_008: They're not criminals.

00:48:51 SPEAKER_008: They're sick.

00:48:52 SPEAKER_008: They need our support.

00:48:53 SPEAKER_008: They need our help, and that is what we need to do as a collective group, rather than in our individual silos.

00:49:04 SPEAKER_008: That was quick, but I was told ten minutes tops, and I tend to go over sometimes.

00:49:08 SPEAKER_008: So, not to upset Francesca, I kept it very short.

00:49:12 SPEAKER_008: But if there are questions later, I'm more than happy to answer them.

00:49:17 SPEAKER_008: See, the only policing I can do is on a Zoom call.

00:49:23 Jill Umblak and I am the: Thank you so much, Rob.

00:49:24 Jill Umblak and I am the: I mean it.

00:49:25 Jill Umblak and I am the: Underlies that whole piece related to you know we can't arrest everybody who isn't fitting into society right now and doesn't have everything all lined up and life isn't perfect.

00:49:37 Jill Umblak and I am the: So I think what we'd like to do right now is we've got what I'm going to get you to do, Rob, is to close your screen, stop sharing.

00:49:46 Jill Umblak and I am the: I am trying.

00:49:48 Jill Umblak and I am the: I know you are, and then we'll be able to see all three of your faces together for everybody who may have their screen just on the speaker screen, and yeah, you've disappeared partially.

00:50:04 Jill Umblak and I am the: I'm.

00:50:08 Jill Umblak and I am the: Oops.

00:50:08 Jill Umblak and I am the: So well, if not, what we will do is I'm not sure, Francesca, if you can do so.

00:50:19 Jill Umblak and I am the: I'm just discovering.

00:50:21 Jill Umblak and I am the: What do you want me to do?

00:50:22 SPEAKER_010: I'm summarising.

00:50:23 SPEAKER_010: So the first set of questions were for Jason, and he answered them in the chat, and I kind of copied that summary.

00:50:30 SPEAKER_010: Incomes generally pre-tax.

00:50:33 SPEAKER_010: We've had this with our affordability graphic we recently released.

00:50:38 SPEAKER_010: Because post-tax, it's like whether you're a single person, whether you have deductions for family members, and that kind of thing gets the post-tax messy, and then you get into well, if you're two kids, this,

00:50:49 SPEAKER_010: then three kids, this, and it just gets messy.

00:50:49 SPEAKER_010: Three kids is and it just gets messy.

00:50:51 SPEAKER_010: So it's pre-tax income, and then a household is just kind of more like an address.

00:50:57 SPEAKER_010: So you can have a building with apartments in it, and that's three households, or you can have a house that's just a house, and that's one household.

00:51:06 Jill Umblak and I am the: Well, thank you for the clarification on those two questions that came up.

00:51:11 Jill Umblak and I am the: Did we have?

00:51:13 Jill Umblak and I am the: We I noticed we had other questions that were coming up.

00:51:16 Jill Umblak and I am the: So the next one is: the employment income?

00:51:20 SPEAKER_010: This is for Kim.

00:51:21 SPEAKER_010: How does employment income affect eligibility?

00:51:24 SPEAKER_010: There was you were talking about Ontario Works and clawbacks, and the question was, "Well, wait a second, what?"

00:51:32 SPEAKER_010: So that's a Kim kind of question around how Ontario Works and how to Ontario Disability, and then the pitfall of spouses and Ontario Disability clawbacks.

00:51:44 SPEAKER_006: Yes, and thank you for the question, and again.

00:51:48 SPEAKER_006: I'm sorry for saying the same thing over and over again, but the answer is it's complicated.

00:51:54 SPEAKER_006: I think at one time your ability to earn income while you were also receiving benefits was pretty much not available to you.

00:52:09 SPEAKER_006: And over time, they've eased up a little bit on that.

00:52:14 SPEAKER_006: So as I say, the first two: The first when you're on an OW, the first $200 of income that you receive does not impact your level of benefit.

00:52:25 SPEAKER_006: But beyond that, 50 cents of every dollar that you earn is then reduces the benefit that you receive.

00:52:35 SPEAKER_006: I am less familiar with the ODSP clawbacks, but we can certainly get that information and provide it to folks.

00:52:43 SPEAKER_010: Provided to folks, so the ODSP because I know this one is the first thousand dollars is earned free to the ODSP recipient.

00:52:53 SPEAKER_010: So the ODSP recipient has a job; they can earn a thousand dollars.

00:52:57 SPEAKER_010: We know a lot of people that this is made.

00:52:59 SPEAKER_010: This has been game changing because they can get that part-time job.

00:53:02 SPEAKER_010: They get to keep the money.

00:53:04 SPEAKER_010: It changes everything, but they get to keep their health benefits.

00:53:07 SPEAKER_010: Where it got complicated is the spouse.

00:53:09 SPEAKER_010: So if you have a disabled person who cannot work because of the disability, and all the people in ODSP have been determined by a medical professional they cannot work.

00:53:18 SPEAKER_010: That's the whole point of it.

00:53:20 SPEAKER_010: But if the spouse is working, it's a clawback after $200.

00:53:24 SPEAKER_010: It doesn't extend to the spouse, and we've seen a lot of challenges with, you know, spouses working full time and you know bringing home half a paycheck by the time the clawbacks happened.

00:53:37 SPEAKER_010: So that's the ODSP challenge.

00:53:39 SPEAKER_010: Thanks, Francesca.

00:53:41 SPEAKER_010: So the next question was around food, with the focus on you know we've talked a lot about income.

00:53:47 SPEAKER_010: Food prices are just going to go up.

00:53:50 SPEAKER_010: And then Andre's question was around, and I'm sorry if I said that wrong, around grow your own food.

00:53:57 SPEAKER_010: I added the link to the Sustainability Network for our project around the community garden network.

00:54:02 SPEAKER_010: So we do have community gardens.

00:54:04 SPEAKER_010: We had the Good Food Box, which is very much inside the petroleum industry because we drive to Toronto to buy it.

00:54:10 SPEAKER_010: I don't know if any of our presenters want to discuss land-based living.

00:54:16 SPEAKER_010: I know I regularly can kill plants.

00:54:19 SPEAKER_010: I am not a gardener.

00:54:21 SPEAKER_010: Tried.

00:54:22 SPEAKER_010: We have community gardens on the United Way property.

00:54:25 SPEAKER_010: Yeah, me and the squirrels—we're good friends.

00:54:28 SPEAKER_010: I feed them.

00:54:30 SPEAKER_010: So I know this is a question around sustainability.

00:54:34 SPEAKER_010: Our challenge.

00:54:35 SPEAKER_010: This is just my answer to this.

00:54:36 SPEAKER_010: Our challenge with the rural nature is without a transportation system.

00:54:40 SPEAKER_010: If we move a bunch of people with low income and no transportation out to, you know, a farm for that condensed living, it becomes a challenge that way.

00:54:49 SPEAKER_010: So I don't know if any of our other speakers want to talk to that.

00:54:54 SPEAKER_006: And I can add a little bit, Francesca.

00:54:58 SPEAKER_006: There, like one of the opportunities that sometimes brought forward is that certainly, you know,

00:55:06 SPEAKER_006: there are ways to cook with ingredients and lower your cost of food by you know batch cooking and using you know individual ingredients to make meals and you know beans rather than meat and all

00:55:21 SPEAKER_006: those sorts of things.

00:55:22 SPEAKER_006: But again, that's where understanding the lived experience of people who are living in a poverty situation.

00:55:31 SPEAKER_006: Many of them have no ability to cook in the apartment or in the space that they call their home.

00:55:40 SPEAKER_006: They may not have a fridge.

00:55:42 SPEAKER_006: They certainly don't have a freezer.

00:55:44 SPEAKER_006: They may not have anything other than a hot plate.

00:55:46 SPEAKER_006: And the grocery store might be some good distance away from where they are.

00:55:50 SPEAKER_006: So some of those solutions that might work well to reduce the cost of groceries or the cost of healthy food for a more middle-class family simply aren't available to people who are living in difficult

00:56:06 SPEAKER_006: circumstances.

00:56:10 SPEAKER_010: So then, this next group of questions was around: Is there statistic regarding people who successfully go through social programmes with successful outcomes?

00:56:18 SPEAKER_010: I kind of asked a clarifying question because if we don't define what success means, I know with the work we do with SOS,

00:56:25 SPEAKER_010: sometimes success is the person shows up at the next time we're out doing what we're doing, and that can be a success.

00:56:33 SPEAKER_010: You know, people in an apartment with a job, you know, not needing any more services is then the end game of success as well.

00:56:42 SPEAKER_010: And there's a whole continuum in there.

00:56:44 SPEAKER_010: And I think that's one of the things we're trying to talk about is defining within the question what the success of these programmes looks like.

00:56:54 SPEAKER_010: You know, one thing that's really important to understand is with the new shelter.

00:57:00 SPEAKER_010: We'll get to that question as well.

00:57:02 SPEAKER_010: Is Safe and Sound's new shelter, when it opens in November, has 24 beds and a warming space for six people, which means 30 people this February coming could be out of the cold.

00:57:12 SPEAKER_010: Last year in February they were serving 50.

00:57:15 SPEAKER_010: So what happens to the other 20?

00:57:17 SPEAKER_010: The fact that we have 20 people that won't have place to go is not necessarily a failure of Safe and Sound, because that's not what they were mandated and funded to do.

00:57:26 SPEAKER_010: They have been mandated and funded for 30.

00:57:28 SPEAKER_010: So then: what is the situation around the other twenty folks?

00:57:34 SPEAKER_010: And then the other question was: Is there one gap that you see between what people need and the actual existing services available to them?

00:57:42 SPEAKER_010: And the most important is the second part of this question.

00:57:45 SPEAKER_010: If so, what could a municipality do?

00:57:48 SPEAKER_010: So I'm going to throw that one to Kim.

00:57:53 SPEAKER_006: And I can maybe answer this a couple of ways.

00:57:56 SPEAKER_006: There has been discussion over all the years that I've been involved in this work about, you know, what comes first.

00:58:05 SPEAKER_006: Is this an income problem?

00:58:07 SPEAKER_006: Is it a housing problem?

00:58:09 SPEAKER_006: You know, if you don't have a safe and secure place to call home,

00:58:14 SPEAKER_006: it's very difficult to think that any of the other things that you need to survive and thrive are going to be able to be available to you.

00:58:25 SPEAKER_006: On the other hand: if there isn't income, how are you able to then maintain housing?

00:58:32 SPEAKER_006: And I don't have the answer to that question, but it is a combination of those things.

00:58:38 SPEAKER_006: The second way I'm going to answer this question is as a mom and a grandma,

00:58:45 SPEAKER_006: and my own personal belief is that ensuring the health and stability of our children is something that is so critical to helping with the prevention that Rob spoke to.

00:59:07 SPEAKER_006: If we can ensure that kids grow up safe and healthy and have access to education, that they go to school and that they're able to complete their education,

00:59:19 SPEAKER_006: the future that's open to them is so much brighter.

00:59:22 SPEAKER_006: That much brighter than the one where those things are not the case, and I hope that you know, as municipal councillors,

00:59:31 SPEAKER_006: you think about the opportunities that kids have to do things like participate in sports in your community, or whether there's any programming for them if their home situation is less than ideal.

00:59:43 SPEAKER_006: Is there something else for them in your community?

00:59:46 SPEAKER_010: So, so the next question, and if you have more that bubble up: just keep going.

00:59:53 SPEAKER_010: Is the pilot with Smart in Kindergarten ends in 2027?

00:59:57 SPEAKER_010: And then I love this question: What should we be tracking between now and then to make that call?

01:00:03 SPEAKER_010: And because I can annoy everybody and anybody, I once asked a fire chief how many fires he'd prevented with his fire prevention.

01:00:10 SPEAKER_010: And of course, you can't measure that.

01:00:11 SPEAKER_010: You have no idea what the potential of something is.

01:00:14 SPEAKER_010: So understanding what you should be tracking, you know, who's the service actually there to assist?

01:00:21 SPEAKER_010: I will tell you right now because I had this conversation with Mr. Vickers yesterday, who gave me a cow when we left the meeting.

01:00:28 SPEAKER_010: Thank you, kids.

01:00:29 SPEAKER_010: Now have a cow.

01:00:31 SPEAKER_010: Is that you know?

01:00:34 SPEAKER_010: It's complicated.

01:00:35 SPEAKER_010: It's you know: What are you looking for?

01:00:38 SPEAKER_010: What is success?

01:00:39 SPEAKER_010: And for transit systems, there is only one transit system on the planet that is self-funded, and that's Hong Kong.

01:00:45 SPEAKER_010: Every other transit system is subsidized by some municipality somewhere.

01:00:49 SPEAKER_010: Somehow.

01:00:50 SPEAKER_010: So the whole self-funding of transit does not exist.

01:00:54 SPEAKER_010: So you know, Kim.

01:00:56 SPEAKER_010: I hate just to keep going to Kim, but you know, that's a really good municipal question: what should we be tracking to know whether we should continue this or not?

01:01:05 SPEAKER_010: What does success look like?

01:01:07 SPEAKER_010: You know, for Smart.

01:01:08 SPEAKER_010: You know, you may have my mother in Kingarton.

01:01:10 SPEAKER_010: Full disclosure.

01:01:11 SPEAKER_010: You know, the fact that she could get to an appointment—that's one person, but that's the most important person in my world.

01:01:17 SPEAKER_010: So, as long as they are good, I'm good.

01:01:20 Jill Umblak and I am the: We also have an extended part of that question, Kim, in the chat: just looking at will municipality help in large scale.

01:01:28 Jill Umblak and I am the: It says food production, but also transit.

01:01:31 Jill Umblak and I am the: So it's getting back to that coordination for regional transit, right?

01:01:37 SPEAKER_006: Thank you, and certainly there has been a lot of work done to support the thinking about what a transit system looks like in such a rural area as Grey Bruce.

01:01:52 SPEAKER_006: We simply don't have the critical mass of population in one place that provides efficiencies and economies of scale.

01:02:02 SPEAKER_006: The cost of fuel, the cost of vehicles, the cost of operations have not been our friend in the time that we've been really trying to make inroads into providing these services;

01:02:19 SPEAKER_006: the costs seem to go faster than we can find the money to operate it.

01:02:25 SPEAKER_006: The other way of thinking about this is: what is the cost of the trips not taken?

01:02:37 SPEAKER_006: And so, when you think—I don't know if everybody's even familiar with what Smart is—that's the Sogin Mobility, or SOGI mobility.

01:02:43 SPEAKER_006: This is for people who have some challenges in accessing transportation on their own.

01:02:52 SPEAKER_006: So, Smart will come and pick you up and take you to your appointment and bring you back again.

01:03:00 SPEAKER_006: It is a lifeline for many people, either from just loneliness and social exclusion, as well as meeting their medical needs.

01:03:12 SPEAKER_006: The province has stepped up, but I think creativity and innovation are really,

01:03:19 SPEAKER_006: really critical if we're actually going to be able to offer this service in a way that we can afford to and help people.

01:03:29 SPEAKER_006: The logistics and the back end about where vehicles need to be and how to get them to where they need to go and make those routes efficient with not empty back-hauls and things—empty back-halls and

01:03:40 SPEAKER_006: things like that—are really wicked complex problems.

01:03:45 SPEAKER_006: I would just once again refer people to some of the studies that have already been done on regional transit.

01:03:51 Jill Umblak and I am the: Most recently, there's one including Dufferin, Wellington, and Grey Bruce, looking at expansion of the GTR, how we link to the south as well for medical appointments and a range of employment opportunities.

01:04:04 Jill Umblak and I am the: There are a couple of questions with regards to ride-sharing programmes and also around the use of school buses; there are some reports by Grey County, also by Human Community Support Services,

01:04:16 Jill Umblak and I am the: around the feasibility of that.

01:04:18 Jill Umblak and I am the: And I will tell you, there's a lot of logistics bureaucracy around insurance, around you—you wouldn't believe some of the challenges we have with considering school buses interacting with adults and a whole combination of things.

01:04:32 Jill Umblak and I am the: So all of these, I think, are viable options, but there has to be some funding behind it: subsidize rides in order to make it affordable for the people you're actually helping.

01:04:43 Jill Umblak and I am the: And so, where do those subsidies come from?

01:04:46 Jill Umblak and I am the: And you will find out there's a variety of funding from different sources, whether it's Ministry of Transportation, Ministry of Health, or Social Services.

01:04:55 Jill Umblak and I am the: So that's something to find out as well from reading some of the reports that Grey County has posted with regards to sources of funding.

01:05:03 Jill Umblak and I am the: You know, there are gas tax monies that are sometimes devoted towards roads or to things like Smart, but once again,

01:05:12 Jill Umblak and I am the: it's a choice by the local board of Smart to decide where you know where those funding sources are coming from, how much gas tax may go towards a service, or whether greater subsidies are needed,

01:05:25 Jill Umblak and I am the: or funding for subsidies is needed.

01:05:28 Jill Umblak and I am the: I would say that I've got a couple of questions for Rob and Rob.

01:05:34 Jill Umblak and I am the: I know you had your hand up, so I'm going to have you jump in.

01:05:37 Jill Umblak and I am the: Were you answering something that came up in the chat, or did you have something to add to this current discussion?

01:05:43 SPEAKER_008: I had a comment on transit: please, if you are making decisions on transit, realize you are making decisions that affect people's lives.

01:05:55 SPEAKER_008: If West Grey, we have some very rural areas all over Grey County.

01:05:59 SPEAKER_008: They can't get there easily, but if people are able to access their supports in one of our urban hubs—Hanover or Osnabrück—or if they do go to Guelph, they are making huge differences in their lives.

01:06:12 SPEAKER_008: They're getting their treatment.

01:06:13 SPEAKER_008: They're getting what they need to function, to heal, and to integrate back into society.

01:06:20 SPEAKER_008: I'm not saying that they're outside society; they are still part of our community, but it's part of their healing process when they're able to access these things.

01:06:27 SPEAKER_008: If we, for lack of a better term, dump them in the country and there is no way to get there: from a policing perspective, we see the deterioration of the person's mental health.

01:06:39 SPEAKER_008: We see the addictions and substance abuse issues start to come back.

01:06:43 SPEAKER_008: Transit is key.

01:06:44 SPEAKER_008: If they can get to where they need their help—and I do love our SOWS programme, bringing the help to the people—I think that is fantastic.

01:06:51 SPEAKER_008: I think Grey County EMS hit it out of the park on that programme, bringing the help that they need.

01:06:57 SPEAKER_008: It's important, and it gives them the dignity to realize that they're taking the steps to get themselves happy, which then again plays back into human dignity, which everyone deserves.

01:07:08 SPEAKER_008: And Kim answered the question, and she is far more articulate than I am, so I let her run with it.

01:07:12 SPEAKER_008: And I did put my hand down, thinking I'd get away with it.

01:07:15 SPEAKER_008: No, Rob, no—it's really good to hear that from the police.

01:07:18 Jill Umblak and I am the: One of the things the United Way did last year was release a report on incarceration and coming back into the community, and transportation came up in terms of people going into court,

01:07:31 Jill Umblak and I am the: perhaps incarcerated outside of the region, coming into court into Owen Sound, and then having to go back without a ride.

01:07:38 Jill Umblak and I am the: And we don't recognize that sometimes it's the OPP or the police that are giving people rides to get some of their essential belongings and other factors.

01:07:48 Jill Umblak and I am the: So complex issues when it comes to transit.

01:07:52 Jill Umblak and I am the: There's a large need, but as Kim said, I think one of our biggest challenges is the funding formulas required for large populations; for that return,

01:08:04 Jill Umblak and I am the: and we have to understand that transit is always going to be subsidized in Canada in our area due to low population and the high cost of transportation and vehicle keeping things on the road.

01:08:15 Jill Umblak and I am the: Francesca, I'm going to head back into the list of questions.

01:08:20 Jill Umblak and I am the: Yeah, so I'm going to throw to Jason for a couple of questions around addiction.

01:08:25 SPEAKER_010: So one question was around why is addiction considered a disease or a sickness versus a choice, which is a great question.

01:08:34 SPEAKER_010: And then that kind of links to another question around housing first, which is how we do operate in Bruce Grey, because I've heard that is an idea we should do that.

01:08:44 SPEAKER_010: We're doing it already; we just don't have enough capacity for everybody who needs a housing-first piece.

01:08:51 SPEAKER_010: We just don't have enough housing.

01:08:54 SPEAKER_010: So we'll throw to Jason around the definitions of addiction and how that relates to what housing first really is.

01:09:03 SPEAKER_010: Sure, I'll—yeah, I'll take a stab at this.

01:09:05 SPEAKER_001: I recently inherited the harm reduction portfolio at public health, so this question kind of has opened a lot of learning for me more recently.

01:09:15 SPEAKER_001: My short answer is: I think, like in terms of a medical science perspective, although initial substance use might be voluntary, I do know that addiction is classified as a chronic brain disease.

01:09:32 SPEAKER_001: So, and we've all heard of the classic example where someone—and it could happen to any of us realistically—where someone has an injury, has an accident, gets prescribed opioids or some form of painkiller,

01:09:45 SPEAKER_001: and then that spirals, right?

01:09:47 SPEAKER_001: That becomes an addiction, and it's about how the brain becomes rewired because of use of those drugs or alcohol or whatever.

01:09:54 SPEAKER_001: So it is classic classified as a chronic brain disease: addiction, even though it can start as a voluntary choice to begin using those substances.

01:10:02 SPEAKER_001: That's the rationale for it being classified as a disease.

01:10:07 SPEAKER_001: In terms of housing first, if there's no follow-up to that, I might—I'm no housing expert, Francesca.

01:10:14 SPEAKER_001: So I wonder if you or Jill might be able to speak to that housing-first perspective more eloquently than I would, Francesca.

01:10:26 SPEAKER_001: Or—I mean, I can jump in.

01:10:28 Jill Umblak and I am the: The housing-first model is: we prioritize safe housing for someone first before we start identifying with that person what their other needs might be, or safety plans going forward, or plans for that person's health,

01:10:43 Jill Umblak and I am the: whether it may be seeking some mental health treatment, addiction.

01:10:46 Jill Umblak and I am the: Treatment, addictions treatment, our transitional housing—I say "our"—but really, Grey County's transitional housing programme allows people to be housed first as we work through issues that they may have in their life,

01:11:01 Jill Umblak and I am the: and it can be a wide variety of issues that may need to be addressed in order to ensure that the person can stay housed.

01:11:08 Jill Umblak and I am the: We know the physical trauma of staying unhoused can kill a person.

01:11:15 Jill Umblak and I am the: We know that it can take them into directions that may encourage them to seek out pain relief continuously.

01:11:25 Jill Umblak and I am the: So there's a variety of reasons, but primarily, housing first means that we are going to house them physically safe, and then access to other resources that can move them along and to progress.

01:11:38 SPEAKER_006: Kim, just a bit of context around that as well, because I certainly don't disagree, Jill,

01:11:45 SPEAKER_006: is that what I mentioned in my presentation was about supportive housing and supportive housing being separate and distinct from social housing or rent-geared-to-income housing?

01:12:01 SPEAKER_006: It is a significant, I think the research would bear this out, a significant jump from homelessness, being on the street and suffering maybe some concurrent disorders to living on your own,

01:12:17 SPEAKER_006: so that supportive housing really fills a really important gap in helping people to come back, as Rob said, come back more into a regular housing situation.

01:12:31 SPEAKER_006: The funding for supportive housing, at least when I was at the county, is money that comes from the Ministry of Health.

01:12:39 SPEAKER_006: So it was different than the funding that we had for other types of housing, very limited, very challenging to have the resources that we know our communities would benefit from,

01:12:57 SPEAKER_006: but it plays such an important role.

01:13:01 SPEAKER_006: And the stories that I heard from people at Grey,

01:13:07 SPEAKER_006: whose family members had successfully completed their time in supportive housing and then were able to move on to social housing really brought tears to my eyes.

01:13:22 SPEAKER_006: It is a wonderful, wonderful opportunity for the people who can have access to it and are able to get through the programme.

01:13:32 SPEAKER_006: So kudos to everyone who works in that.

01:13:37 SPEAKER_010: So housing first is really about not having any requirements, so you don't have to be sober, you don't have to be not using.

01:13:45 SPEAKER_010: You know, there's no expectations.

01:13:47 SPEAKER_010: It's just here's a key, here's a place.

01:13:49 SPEAKER_010: We'll be in touch.

01:13:50 SPEAKER_010: I do know from the first few weeks that the transitional housing home on 14th Street, which is my neighbourhood, was open.

01:13:59 SPEAKER_010: Talking to the CMHA staff that were in there, everybody just slept.

01:14:03 SPEAKER_010: The people that were first admitted were coming straight off the street and had been on the street chronically, and you don't sleep very well when you're on the street.

01:14:12 SPEAKER_010: And for them to have their own little contained apartment with a little kitchenette and everything they need, and people available to them for a coffee and a chat,

01:14:22 SPEAKER_010: but the first thing they did was catch up on sleep,

01:14:27 SPEAKER_010: and I think that was such an important thing to capture of expectations of folks when you know the first you know I feel I'm safe.

01:14:36 SPEAKER_010: I'm warm.

01:14:37 SPEAKER_010: You know, I've got people around me.

01:14:39 SPEAKER_010: I can relax and I can go to sleep, and then I can deal with tomorrow.

01:14:42 SPEAKER_010: Tomorrow, and that's the piece of it.

01:14:45 SPEAKER_010: But if we don't have more space, oh yeah, some of these questions are huge, big long answers.

01:14:56 SPEAKER_010: And we may be putting out an evaluation.

01:14:59 SPEAKER_010: So there was a question around the Poverty Task Force having a vacant home tax.

01:15:02 SPEAKER_010: That's not having a vacant home tax—that's not our role.

01:15:05 SPEAKER_010: That's that's municipalities' role.

01:15:07 SPEAKER_010: I know a lot of the vacant buildings are commercial buildings, as opposed to residential tenancy buildings, which is where we would get more housing.

01:15:15 SPEAKER_010: And I know here in the City of Oceanside, we're waiting for about a thousand units to come on between the three huge builds.

01:15:22 SPEAKER_010: But I, Francesca, I would answer that, and Kim maybe can support this.

01:15:27 Jill Umblak and I am the: That is something that is discussed at the municipal level when we look at vacant buildings tax.

01:15:31 Jill Umblak and I am the: Vacant buildings taxes, property tax, and there's a range of things that does.

01:15:36 Jill Umblak and I am the: It's not something Poverty Task Force weighs in.

01:15:40 Jill Umblak and I am the: We are part of a project called Rent Safe, which is part of a larger Rent Safe Ontario, where we look at property standards,

01:15:48 Jill Umblak and I am the: we look at renovations and other standards to keep people safe and healthy housing, and look primarily at existing housing standards.

01:15:59 Jill Umblak and I am the: There's a lot going on for new builds in.

01:16:00 Jill Umblak and I am the: On for new builds, including we have a roundtable coming up on the 29th, focused on climate resiliency and looking at low buildings that are largely low-income rental apartments and units that low-income people live in.

01:16:16 Jill Umblak and I am the: How do we make them more climate resilient?

01:16:18 Jill Umblak and I am the: So we are looking at a variety of things at the Poverty Task Force.

01:16:22 Jill Umblak and I am the: We are not focused on some of the property tax aspects, except when it comes to vital services and renovation.

01:16:29 Jill Umblak and I am the: And re-evictions, so that really does come back to municipal councillors to take a look at.

01:16:36 SPEAKER_006: Kim, can I ask Francesca not to put you on the spot?

01:16:40 SPEAKER_006: But one of the things I didn't mention, and I think is important for the people on this call to know,

01:16:45 SPEAKER_006: is about Leap and the Energy Assistance Programme and what it does and does not support as we come into winter.

01:16:55 SPEAKER_010: Oh, this meeting just got stretched into three hours because you asked me an energy question, which is in the jam.

01:17:01 SPEAKER_010: It's Jill knows Jill's going.

01:17:02 SPEAKER_010: Oh no!

01:17:04 SPEAKER_010: So we're just releasing a mute.

01:17:08 SPEAKER_010: We just released a whole new report, which is why I was meeting with Mr. Bicker.

01:17:12 SPEAKER_010: So go to the United Way's website.

01:17:14 SPEAKER_010: Go look for the Energy Poverty brief because we actually got provincial data.

01:17:17 SPEAKER_010: So now we have provincial data on what's going on in energy poverty.

01:17:21 SPEAKER_010: It is shockingly an income issue.

01:17:24 SPEAKER_010: It is not that people don't want to pay the bills.

01:17:26 SPEAKER_010: They just do not have the money to pay the bills.

01:17:29 SPEAKER_010: United Way spends about 150 to 200 thousand, depending on the winter, on assisting people with utilities, with heating as well.

01:17:37 SPEAKER_010: Specific, there is provincial programmes for natural gas and electricity.

01:17:41 SPEAKER_010: There is not for furnace oil, propane, and cordwood.

01:17:43 SPEAKER_010: That's us, 100 percent fund raised.

01:17:46 SPEAKER_010: If the donor dollars don't come in, we don't have the programme, and we can't help people.

01:17:52 SPEAKER_010: We do work very much at the provincial level around customer service; we have worked with Ms. Pallades on customer service rules around utilities, specifically sewer and water.

01:18:04 SPEAKER_010: I actually found out Wednesday night at the Legal Clinic's AGM,

01:18:08 SPEAKER_010: one of their clerks was able to let me know that a briefing paper that I had worked with on soggy shores around sewer and water, around changes they were making,

01:18:17 SPEAKER_010: that they adapted to our concerns immediately.

01:18:20 SPEAKER_010: It was wonderful interaction.

01:18:22 SPEAKER_010: They listened.

01:18:22 SPEAKER_010: They understood, and they made the appropriate bylaw changes to the system, and that's another report.

01:18:29 SPEAKER_010: And it prevented an eviction because they were able to bring forward and say the utility issues in this residency were related to a policy disconnection, not an actual utility disconnection.

01:18:43 SPEAKER_010: So there's a huge amount of stuff.

01:18:45 SPEAKER_010: Just search utilities on the United Way website, and we have lots of reports.

01:18:49 SPEAKER_010: This energy report was just released last week.

01:18:52 SPEAKER_010: It's been on Open Lines, so you can go look at previous September 11th.

01:18:58 SPEAKER_010: We did a whole Open Line on this with all the data.

01:19:01 SPEAKER_010: But energy poverty is a massive part of the rural nature.

01:19:07 SPEAKER_010: We can track it through climate action as well because people went from furnace oil to propane and from propane to natural gas, cost 100 bucks.

01:19:14 SPEAKER_010: So we can track things, and then generally, when people get onto natural gas, it's that much more cheaper, and they come off our programme.

01:19:21 Jill Umblak and I am the: Two quick questions that I'm going to pop in with.

01:19:24 Jill Umblak and I am the: There was a question with regards to the living wage still not being enough, and yes, we recognize that.

01:19:29 Jill Umblak and I am the: The calculation that was put in in the chat is pretty accurate.

01:19:34 Jill Umblak and I am the: It's still not enough, and that is one of the reasons.

01:19:36 Jill Umblak and I am the: Even if we advocate for a living wage, it's still what we feel people at a minimum should have, as compared to the minimum wage, which is supposed to be that minimum wage.

01:19:46 Jill Umblak and I am the: You know, is not keeping up with the costs of living right now.

01:19:51 Jill Umblak and I am the: Listing the housing programmes, you can find them on 211.

01:19:55 Jill Umblak and I am the: If you go on and do a Google search through there, you can also find them on the Grey County website.

01:20:03 Jill Umblak and I am the: We also have reports, things like the Buy Names list, which tracks homelessness and a range of other things.

01:20:09 Jill Umblak and I am the: You can find on BG Disc.

01:20:11 Jill Umblak and I am the: The Energy Poverty Report is also on BG Disc.

01:20:14 Jill Umblak and I am the: So we do try to compile things in a one location so that in one location so that you can access them.

01:20:19 Jill Umblak and I am the: There are a couple of other questions with regards to what else is possible with housing, and I'll take that back to Kim.

01:20:29 Jill Umblak and I am the: Unfortunately, one of the questions is related to the zoning, and that is like discussing tiny homes and alternative styles of homes for people that are experiencing homelessness.

01:20:44 Jill Umblak and I am the: Well, I will say that I think Bruce...

01:20:46 SPEAKER_006: County, Saugeen Shores, maybe specifically, has done a significant amount of work about making access to the creation of additional residential units something that's much more attainable.

01:21:03 SPEAKER_006: Understanding and kind of scripting, if you will, you know the setbacks, the footprint, the plans that you might use to create such a thing.

01:21:14 SPEAKER_006: I think those are all things that are helpful to people who might be considering that.

01:21:20 SPEAKER_006: I know that there are discussions in a number of municipalities about things like reducing the number of zones in the residential designation, potentially making it four units as of right.

01:21:35 SPEAKER_006: All of these things come with challenges and processes.

01:21:43 SPEAKER_006: And process, but the discussions are happening, and I think that you know there is some good potential to see that happening.

01:21:51 SPEAKER_006: I think one of the things that, as rural communities, we were perhaps a little bit disappointed about was our ability to influence inclusionary zoning.

01:22:06 SPEAKER_006: And I mentioned only a tiny little fragment on one slide there about how if a municipality wanted to ask that a particular development have a proportion of affordable units,

01:22:20 SPEAKER_006: if you're in the appropriate place in the province, and that means you're in a major transit corridor or something like that,

01:22:28 SPEAKER_006: then you're able to suggest that you know five percent of the units be affordable.

01:22:35 SPEAKER_006: But it's not something that's really available to rural communities without a really complex planning exercise, and so there are challenges.

01:22:49 Jill Umblak and I am the: Yeah, I know there's a lot of comments in the chat with people chiming in with you know different municipalities advocating for tiny homes and other potential solutions.

01:22:59 Jill Umblak and I am the: We do know that there are organisations such as the Community Foundation and the Institute for Southern Georgian Bay that are looking at funding opportunities.

01:23:10 Jill Umblak and I am the: How do we generate local funds to be able to invest in more housing?

01:23:15 Jill Umblak and I am the: And I think that's part of the partnership that's going on with the non-profits, with private fundraisers, and then working with government to be able to provide in your own municipality some of that alternative housing.

01:23:29 SPEAKER_010: Yeah, I think there's a really good question in the chat here.

01:23:34 SPEAKER_010: And again, I'm going to put Kim on the spot for this.

01:23:36 SPEAKER_010: Is there a strategy for convincing people of the value of mixed housing and dealing with that NIMBY of my character of my neighbourhood?

01:23:44 SPEAKER_010: Jill and I live in the same neighbourhood.

01:23:46 SPEAKER_010: We live in townhouses that were built in the nineteen thirties as high-density worker homes, and you know, character is code for not in my backyard.

01:23:59 SPEAKER_010: I think some of this is time.

01:24:04 SPEAKER_006: Some of this, the Institute of South Georgian Bay's work around helping people to come together to understand both the opportunities and the challenges and the policy levers that are available is something that's really important.

01:24:24 SPEAKER_006: People are afraid of change, and they are afraid of the unknown.

01:24:32 SPEAKER_006: There's a known, there's a you know a financial interest in all of this, which I don't want to discount, and so all in all,

01:24:42 SPEAKER_006: I think this is something that benefits from very much an incremental approach,

01:24:50 SPEAKER_006: where you look at a particular area and you identify that area as having a particular you know particularly strong case for infill development or enhanced lot coverage,

01:25:07 SPEAKER_006: and then you're going to work with the people in that community, work with developers to put something on the ground that people can see, and they'll see it be successful,

01:25:18 SPEAKER_006: and then hopefully that success begets success in the future.

01:25:23 SPEAKER_006: But I think you know, in all of these discussions, as an elected official, you want to be careful that you don't get no before you ever get a chance to get to yes,

01:25:33 SPEAKER_006: and so starting small and building from there, two new units or four new units in a neighbourhood is still an amazing achievement and an opportunity to build on for the future.

01:25:47 SPEAKER_010: So the question around we don't understand why municipalities can't demand developers do like fifteen percent.

01:25:52 SPEAKER_010: That's a funding thing.

01:25:54 SPEAKER_010: So if a developer gets a grant from Canada Mortgage and Housing, that does come with a requirement around affordability, but the definition of affordability is where the challenge lies.

01:26:07 SPEAKER_010: Because what we need is deeply affordable, and you have affordable affordability.

01:26:12 SPEAKER_010: And if I'm wrong, please correct me.

01:26:14 SPEAKER_010: Is 80% of market rent?

01:26:16 SPEAKER_010: So if the market rent in Saugeen Shores is $2,500 a month in rent, 80% of that is still not affordable for a lot of working folk.

01:26:26 SPEAKER_010: Whereas if you looked at Erin Eldersley, where you know rents maybe fifteen hundred, and a developer comes along, eighty percent of that is you know you're actually getting into the realm of affordability.

01:26:38 SPEAKER_010: So the shenanigans with that definition, and then where does the funding come from to the developer to offset their profit loss by building affordability?

01:26:49 SPEAKER_006: Kim, just one other.

01:26:52 SPEAKER_006: I know we're out of time here, but just one other thought about that.

01:26:55 SPEAKER_006: As an elected official, you will hear about bonusing, which is giving something to someone that everybody else didn't get,

01:27:07 SPEAKER_006: and the converse of that is demanding something of someone that you haven't required others to do.

01:27:15 SPEAKER_006: So this is where things like community improvement programmes come into play because now you're setting a consistent and hopefully level playing field by which, or you know if you had a development permitting system,

01:27:27 SPEAKER_006: for example, now you've created a foundation that's the same for everyone, and you can move forward from there.

01:27:34 SPEAKER_006: But what you'll run into challenges doing is if you try to sort of cherry pick and say this but not everybody else.

01:27:42 SPEAKER_006: So, just to avoid trips to the Ontario Land Tribunal, all of that to say, you won't.

01:27:49 SPEAKER_006: You will be hearing from the Poverty Task Force, and you will hear us always advocating for this.

01:27:55 Jill Umblak and I am the: So I think the other side of being part of a municipal councillor, other than listening to communities, is also engaging with those non-profits.

01:28:05 Jill Umblak and I am the: And we do that collectively.

01:28:06 Jill Umblak and I am the: You are in.

01:28:07 Jill Umblak and I am the: You are always welcome to join the Poverty Task Force.

01:28:12 Jill Umblak and I am the: And we have various working groups on housing, on income and employment security, on food security, as well as Jason heads up the Healthy Communities Partnership table, where we have open opportunities for government,

01:28:26 Jill Umblak and I am the: non-profits to come together.

01:28:28 Jill Umblak and I am the: And a lot of the ideas that are being discussed in the chat are ones that we can bring forth, and in some cases we can get behind and support.

01:28:36 Jill Umblak and I am the: There was a person in the chat that indicated around, you know, I'm on ODSP and struggling to get by.

01:28:43 Jill Umblak and I am the: So most recently we supported a report called "In Their Own Words," which was put out by the Income Security Advocacy Centre,

01:28:52 Jill Umblak and I am the: and it was a nationwide advocacy piece to look at increasing the rates in Ontario, but also compared it to some of the other provinces for ODSP,

01:29:03 Jill Umblak and I am the: and recognizing that social assistance rates have not been improved or increased in so many years.

01:29:10 Jill Umblak and I am the: That you know, so I think it goes hand in hand.

01:29:14 Jill Umblak and I am the: You will also get opportunities as a councillor, deputy mayor, mayor to engage with the Association of Municipalities, so that you are able to take it up the ladder.

01:29:25 Jill Umblak and I am the: A lot of people in the chat talking about well, you know, influencing the province, influencing the federal government, and yes, a lot of that needs to come into play, especially when we're looking at agreements.

01:29:38 Jill Umblak and I am the: Kim mentioned the child care centre agreements.

01:29:41 Jill Umblak and I am the: Some of that has not happened as yet between the province and the federal government to get our subsidies down.

01:29:47 Jill Umblak and I am the: We had a target to ten dollar a day childcare for twenty twenty-six, and it's still we're only at twenty twenty-two dollars a day.

01:29:57 Jill Umblak and I am the: So there are lots of things that you'll be able to advocate for and be part of as municipal councillors across Ontario, and we do welcome engagement with the Poverty Task Force and other planning tables.

01:30:10 Jill Umblak and I am the: But also, you know, there's a lot of pressure that needs to go up and down the scale, if you will, of government.

01:30:18 Jill Umblak and I am the: We are at 11:40, and we promise we would finish around 11:30.

01:30:22 Jill Umblak and I am the: I'm wondering if there's any last words from any of our panelists, Rob, Jason, or Kim, that you'd like to send people off with today.

01:30:35 SPEAKER_001: Not from me, Jill.

01:30:36 SPEAKER_001: Just thanks for the opportunity, and feel free, anyone on the call, to reach out directly if you have questions, comments, or, as Jill mentioned, want to join us at the Healthy Communities Partnership table.

01:30:46 SPEAKER_001: Thank you so much, Jason, Kim, or Rob.

01:30:49 SPEAKER_006: I will just say again, thank you, everyone, for making the time to do this.

01:30:52 SPEAKER_006: I know how busy everyone is, and I'm always available if I can assist anyone with a question or whatever.

01:30:58 SPEAKER_006: My contact information is there.

01:31:00 SPEAKER_006: Thank you from the bottom of my heart to all of the organisations in our communities that help those that are less fortunate.

01:31:07 SPEAKER_006: Thanks, Kim.

01:31:08 SPEAKER_006: Last word goes to you, Rob.

01:31:11 SPEAKER_006: I get last.

01:31:12 SPEAKER_008: Thank you very much for putting this together.

01:31:16 SPEAKER_008: It was great.

01:31:17 SPEAKER_008: I've been reading the comments.

01:31:18 SPEAKER_008: There was one comment: the costs.

01:31:20 SPEAKER_008: Policing in this province is costing five point eight seven billion dollars a year.

01:31:26 SPEAKER_008: Those costs are increasing exponentially.

01:31:28 SPEAKER_008: If we remove some of the downstream of the stuff we deal with and refund upstream, those costs will drop.

01:31:36 SPEAKER_008: The other question that we're talking about: affordable housing, having been part of a project in York Region a number of years ago where they put all of the people that needed supportive housing, social housing,

01:31:49 SPEAKER_008: subsidized housing, whatever you want, into the same area.

01:31:52 SPEAKER_008: If you want to discuss it, it does not work.

01:31:56 SPEAKER_008: You revictimize them for other reasons and actually the issues they were there.

01:32:01 SPEAKER_008: It is problematic.

01:32:02 SPEAKER_008: I will not eat up a bunch of time now.

01:32:04 SPEAKER_008: We're at the end.

01:32:05 SPEAKER_008: Francesca and Jill do have my contact information, and if anyone wishes to talk about it, you can certainly share my email with them.

01:32:12 SPEAKER_008: I don't answer my phone much because it's always a scam, so I won't be doing that.

01:32:17 SPEAKER_008: But it doesn't work.

01:32:18 SPEAKER_008: There are challenges that come with it.

01:32:20 SPEAKER_008: I won't eat up the time now, but if any councillor or anyone who's running for election wishes to discuss it, please feel free to share my email,

01:32:26 SPEAKER_008: and I will get back to you as soon as I possibly can.

01:32:29 SPEAKER_008: And again, thank you and good luck to everyone in the upcoming elections.

01:32:32 SPEAKER_008: Thanks, Rob.

01:32:33 SPEAKER_008: So Francesca would also like to.

01:32:35 SPEAKER_008: Has she's been key in putting together today's event?

01:32:39 SPEAKER_008: Francesca.

01:32:41 SPEAKER_010: So yeah, so thank you to everybody.

01:32:43 SPEAKER_010: You hung out like ninety percent of everybody was able to stay right through to the end.

01:32:47 SPEAKER_010: So thank you so much for this.

01:32:49 SPEAKER_010: I am going to look at an evaluation work with Jill on that.

01:32:53 SPEAKER_010: So please, when it comes in, just take a moment to fill that out.

01:32:56 SPEAKER_010: I promise not to make it very long, and I make it tick box versus you know send me six paragraphs on what you liked, and make it easy.

01:33:05 SPEAKER_010: This is the first time we've done something like this.

01:33:07 SPEAKER_010: Our goal was to just answer your questions ahead of the questions, but also with that curiosity document we send out.

01:33:14 SPEAKER_010: The curiosity before conclusions is understanding.

01:33:17 SPEAKER_010: You know, when we hear from candidates, oh, we'll get everybody together, or we will do housing first.

01:33:23 SPEAKER_010: It's like we're already doing this.

01:33:24 SPEAKER_010: Understanding what's happening already, we're all here to answer those questions and let people know what's going on.

01:33:32 SPEAKER_010: Having a candidate in a municipal election.

01:33:36 SPEAKER_010: I know how much work this is, and you know it is so important and so wonderful that you have chosen to serve your community by doing this.

01:33:44 SPEAKER_010: So, regardless of the outcome, you are all wonderful winners, and thank you so much.

01:33:50 Jill Umblak and I am the: Yes, so we will wrap up there, and I would like to, you know, once again applaud you all for standing forward, coming forward to run in the election.

01:34:00 Jill Umblak and I am the: Congratulations to those who are returning and may have been already acclaimed.

01:34:04 Jill Umblak and I am the: But you're still here.

01:34:06 Jill Umblak and I am the: You're still learning, and you're still showing the leadership around poverty-related issues.

01:34:11 Jill Umblak and I am the: And for that, we thank you.

01:34:13 Jill Umblak and I am the: We will, as we send out the recording, we will also include information around the poverty task force and some of the other tables that you might join.

01:34:22 Jill Umblak and I am the: For your information, we also have formal representation that comes from each council to the poverty task force, and there's a few other community safety and well-being plan,

01:34:34 Jill Umblak and I am the: where you can also join and be part of the larger regional conversations.

01:34:39 Jill Umblak and I am the: So, thank you very much for today.

01:34:41 Jill Umblak and I am the: We will, once again, we will send out the slides and the recording to all candidates, all 233, and certainly the ones that were on the call today.

01:34:51 Jill Umblak and I am the: So, thank you very much for being part of this discussion.

01:36:20 Jill Umblak and I am the: Okay, they're all in the meeting waiting room.

01:36:23 Jill Umblak and I am the: Did you put them all?

01:36:24 Jill Umblak and I am the: Were you were you putting them in the waiting room?

01:36:26 Jill Umblak and I am the: I was trying to do that, and you were clicking before I could.

01:36:30 Jill Umblak and I am the: Yeah, okay.

01:36:30 Jill Umblak and I am the: Wait a second.

01:36:32 Jill Umblak and I am the: Hold.