Owen Sound Committee - Community Services Meeting Transcript — January 21, 2026

00:00:20 Speaker 01: Good evening.

00:00:34 Speaker 01: It's January twenty-first at five thirty p.m. for the Community Services Committee, and welcome to members present: Councillor Dodd.

00:00:46 Speaker 01: He sent his regrets; other than that, we have all the other members present.

00:01:01 Speaker 01: I'll call the meeting to order, and I'll ask if there are any additional business items.

00:01:09 Speaker 01: Okay, John?

00:01:25 Speaker 01: Through the chair, I believe this is my last meeting on the committee before we switch up in February, so at the end, I'd just like to say "so long" and thanks for all the fish."

00:01:45 Speaker 01: That was my additional item as well.

00:01:53 Speaker 01: Are there any declarations of interest regarding the items on the agenda?

00:02:04 Speaker 01: Hearing that there are none; if one should arise, please indicate so at the time.

00:02:27 Speaker 01: Confirmation of minutes from the December seventeenth meeting: Council has approved these minutes.

00:02:36 Speaker 01: However, the committee needs to indicate their approval of the minutes.

00:02:41 Speaker 01: Looking for someone to move that...

00:02:47 Speaker 02: Lance has moved it.

00:02:50 Speaker 02: All those in favor?

00:02:56 Speaker 02: That's carried.

00:02:59 Speaker 02: Thank you.

00:03:08 Speaker 02: Next, we have deputations, and our first deputation listed is a member of the Chamber of Commerce.

00:03:27 Speaker 02: This was deferred from last meeting due to weather interference; there is interfering again, so we won't have that deputation tonight.

00:03:48 Speaker 02: The next deputation is from Jared Coop of Georgian Bay Folk Society, and we'll ask Jared to approach the podium.

00:03:56 Speaker 02: Welcome.

00:04:07 Speaker 02: All right, so most of you probably already know who I am, but for those who don't: my name is Jarrett Coop.

00:04:18 Speaker 02: I am the operations manager for the Georgian Bay Folk Society.

00:04:26 Speaker 02: The Georgian Bay Folk Society's primary event is the Summer Folk Music and Crafts Festival.

00:04:46 Speaker 02: We do produce other events throughout the year, but that is the one we're known for; it's our mission and mandate.

00:05:05 Speaker 02: So I came last year after we had a couple of tough years to talk to the City about support—we needed it—and the City did come through with support and granted our request.

00:05:20 Speaker 02: What I'm coming back here this year is to say: "It worked."

00:05:25 Speaker 02: It was a good year.

00:05:33 Speaker 02: We had a very strong year, not just attendance-wise; weather obviously plays a huge factor into that, but city support was significant, making it easier for us to find more partners.

00:05:59 Speaker 02: It increased our sponsorship in real dollars by almost thirty thousand dollars and cascaded its effect down through our conversations with other organizations.

00:06:09 Speaker 02: It made our discussions with Zoomer coming into town much easier.

00:06:24 Speaker 02: We were able to put together a very strong level of support from businesses, corporations, and individuals.

00:06:44 Speaker 02: I think that the City saying "yes" to us last year was a strong indication that the support existing here for the Georgian Bay Folk Society and for the Summer Folk Music Festival is strong and

00:06:59 Speaker 02: meaningful.

00:07:09 Speaker 02: So my slides this year are a little bit less about how many heads we count or beds we put up, and dollars we bring into the economy; instead,

00:07:29 Speaker 02: it's more about what we are as a cultural entity, what we mean to the greater arts community, and our role as a cultural legacy.

00:07:51 Speaker 02: For fifty years, Summerfolk is, as far as I know, the longest-running folk festival in Canada without a break or relocation of its same location.

00:08:09 Speaker 02: The folk festival scene in Canada is something that is world-renowned; we are the ones who brought in the idea of workshops.

00:08:21 Speaker 02: So you take random artists, put them together, give them a theme, let them go—and what we call those "seeds."

00:08:33 Speaker 02: You can't force magic to happen, but if you plant enough seeds, some of the magic happens.

00:08:47 Speaker 02: Those are the moments people leave with—not just for attendees, but also for the artists themselves.

00:08:58 Speaker 02: For fifty years, Summerfolk has been a cornerstone for the City and the area.

00:09:19 Speaker 02: We bring people here who would not normally be able to come; we also bring them to see others who wouldn't otherwise have that opportunity.

00:09:39 Speaker 02: One of our other roles as an organization is trying to bring in as many local organizations as possible to expose festival attendees to our community village,

00:10:06 Speaker 02: which showcases non-profit and community-facing service organizations that may not otherwise get the chance to talk to thousands of people.

00:10:22 Speaker 02: Another thing we do: because Summerfolk has been a cornerstone, we spend a lot on bringing artists here, but also a lot supporting local artists from here.

00:10:32 Speaker 02: A big contingent of our artist representatives are local—and that's increasing.

00:10:40 Speaker 02: One of the things we did last year was help combat the idea that festivals are becoming very expensive.

00:10:51 Speaker 02: We tried to keep tickets low and lost money, so we had to increase prices.

00:11:12 Speaker 02: But our mandate as a not-for-profit is to bring folk arts to people in Owen Sound and surrounding areas—to create a place where they can live, grow, and continue generation after generation.

00:11:34 Speaker 02: People know us now; price was becoming a barrier.

00:11:42 Speaker 02: However, the cost of throwing the festival demanded that we raise ticket prices.

00:11:55 Speaker 02: So what we did: we brought in a Thursday community concert by donation—there wasn't even a suggested donation, so it's basically free to the public to come and enjoy.

00:12:13 Speaker 02: The neatest thing happened: most food vendors showed up and opened; over half of artisan vendors also showed up and opened.

00:12:33 Speaker 02: We really just planned on making this concert happen—we booked artists either from Grey-Bruce or connected to Grey-Bruce in some way, including Coco Love, Samantha Martin, Paige Warner, Grey Road One,

00:12:52 Speaker 02: all the bands you know from around here—but we were fortunate enough to bring Tim Harrison back (one of the founders), who finished off the night with Larry Jensen,

00:13:08 Speaker 02: one of the first performers at Summerfolk right from its very beginning.

00:13:18 Speaker 02: It was a really magical night.

00:13:29 Speaker 02: But what we didn't expect: most food vendors showed up and opened; over half of artisan vendors also appeared and set up.

00:13:46 Speaker 02: So we ended up with basically a mini version of Summerfolk for one day that was free to the public—and we want to keep doing it.

00:14:04 Speaker 02: We think it's important, especially because it brings people who wouldn't otherwise be able to attend the festival so they can have that experience.

00:14:35 Speaker 03: That kind of thing can grow and become our next base—not just in patrons, but also volunteers—because it takes over six hundred volunteers to throw this festival.

00:14:55 Speaker 03: We only have two staff members year-round: me and the artistic director, plus a couple of summer students we hire.

00:15:19 Speaker 02: The rest has to be done by volunteers, which really does create community connection—an almost feeling that "this is the community's festival," not an outside organization coming in presenting something.

00:15:40 Speaker 02: In light of that success—what I'm back here asking for this year is recommitment—but a little bit more than last time: I'd like a multi-year commitment.

00:15:54 Speaker 02: Specifically, I'm asking for a three-year commitment.

00:15:59 Speaker 02: The reason we need this?

00:16:22 Speaker 04: Right now in our field, festivals across the province and country are closing—we just lost Oloro River Fest; we lost two festivals last year, then two the year before.

00:16:34 Speaker 04: It's becoming increasingly difficult with rising costs to keep going.

00:16:54 Speaker 04: One barrier when talking to corporations for support is: "How do they know they're not just dropping money in a bucket that's going to disappear?"

00:17:08 Speaker 04: Our answer?

00:17:15 Speaker 04: Stability—and the only way to get stability is through multi-year partnerships.

00:17:34 Speaker 05: That's the only way I can go forward confidently and say, "We are going to be here; we'll be around; we'll do what we said we'd do."

00:17:50 Speaker 05: And I think this needs to start at home—with us in the City.

00:18:08 Speaker 05: We've been partners for years: helped build that park together; helped each other throw that festival every year; helped grow a wonderful arts community that benefits from being here.

00:18:28 Speaker 05: In today's challenging environment, multi-year support is the next step toward actually stabilizing and creating a legacy that will continue for generations.

00:18:48 Speaker 02: I guess the last thing I'd like to say is, and you know, I haven't gone off of the first slide, but.

00:19:02 Speaker 02: I said this last year, and I just want to reiterate it.

00:19:16 Speaker 02: Owen Sound as an arts community is incredible.

00:19:30 Speaker 06: I have been all over this province as a touring musician.

00:19:36 Speaker 06: I have worked for Longa McQuade.

00:19:49 Speaker 04: I've been to several different towns to open up Longa McQuades' venues and get them up and running.

00:20:12 Speaker 04: I've been a part of arts communities for my entire adult life, and one of the reasons why I moved here with my family was because every time I came through Owen Sound,

00:20:32 Speaker 01: I would end up at a kitchen party after the show or something like that, and every player was world class.

00:20:43 Speaker 01: Like it blew me away.

00:20:55 Speaker 02: And then once I moved here, I started walking around, and the amount of art that's available—visual art—something like GB Art doesn't exist in other towns of this size.

00:21:21 Speaker 01: Like all of these things exist here because there is a spirit.

00:21:30 Speaker 01: We're at the end of two highways.

00:21:35 Speaker 01: There's not a whole heck of a lot past us.

00:21:42 Speaker 01: I have my professional life up here.

00:21:53 Speaker 05: I have had to argue with, you know, my bosses about things that we need to get up here.

00:22:15 Speaker 07: And it's like, well, if there was something else past you so we could include that in a larger order, that would be fine.

00:22:26 Speaker 07: But, so we end up paying a location tax.

00:22:32 Speaker 07: It happens when I order service.

00:22:34 Speaker 07: It happens when I order products.

00:22:45 Speaker 07: So, because of that, this area has what I like to call a punk rock DIY attitude.

00:23:01 Speaker 03: Nobody's going to come and do it for us.

00:23:14 Speaker 03: We have to build it ourselves, and that's what everybody's done here.

00:23:31 Speaker 04: And I think it's integral to the continuation of an event like this.

00:23:41 Speaker 04: That is a cornerstone.

00:23:57 Speaker 05: That is a support rock for the arts, and not just for the arts, but also just for the experiences that come out of it.

00:24:15 Speaker 05: So I think with a multi-year commitment between the city and us, I think we can work towards putting us on a stable future for generations.

00:24:36 Speaker 01: You know, one of the things that came out of last year was we made a major turnaround in our finances.

00:25:02 Speaker 03: We came in heavily in debt, and we were able to retire two thirds of that debt off of last year's success.

00:25:22 Speaker 01: We need two more years of that to really be stable.

00:25:38 Speaker 07: Three more years where we can start investing back, and that's really what we want to get to.

00:25:55 Speaker 07: So, thank you for your time, and I hope that what I've said rings true with you.

00:26:03 Speaker 07: Thank you for your comments.

00:26:05 Speaker 07: Looking around the table, Morgan.

00:26:15 Speaker 07: Thank you for that and for the insight of how our sponsorship last year assisted with your organization and helped grow as well.

00:26:36 Speaker 07: The question I have is: A) how much did you end up receiving from the Matt tax last year, and B) are you eligible to receive Matt tax funding year after year,

00:26:49 Speaker 07: or is it just a one-time thing?

00:27:01 Speaker 07: So the Matt Tax program through the Ontario Tourism Development Fund is excellent, and this was the first round of it.

00:27:11 Speaker 07: We received fifteen thousand dollars.

00:27:18 Speaker 07: We received $15,000 towards the festival for this year.

00:27:23 Speaker 07: It is a competitive process.

00:27:26 Speaker 07: It's not a donation.

00:27:30 Speaker 07: It's not a sponsorship.

00:27:33 Speaker 07: It's not a multi-year thing.

00:27:38 Speaker 07: It is essentially a grant, which is great.

00:27:44 Speaker 07: And we have been fortunate with grants in our lifecycle.

00:27:52 Speaker 07: They are significantly down from what they used to be, but they are still significant.

00:28:10 Speaker 07: So yeah, we are grateful that we were able to get a $15,000 fifteen thousand dollar grant from them, but that's by no means a guarantee every year.

00:28:27 Speaker 07: Yes, we're eligible to apply each round, not necessarily for the same thing.

00:28:39 Speaker 07: But they are still building out the program, so we're not entirely sure.

00:28:46 Speaker 07: But yes, every year we'll be able to apply.

00:28:50 Speaker 07: Others, John.

00:29:08 Speaker 07: I. So comment and question: the timing of the ask in some ways is too bad because the Mayor's budget was passed without amendment and considered to come into effect at the end of last week.

00:29:34 Speaker 07: So the allocations, to my understanding—I'll let staff correct me if I'm wrong—but allocations of funding for 2026 through the city are set.

00:29:53 Speaker 07: But I'm curious where the relationship between asks like this and conversations with the Special Events Activation Team (SEAT) is through the City.

00:30:11 Speaker 01: Like, how do we know where we're at in the evolving process of the Mayor's budget?

00:30:26 Speaker 07: This—I hope I'm not saying the wrong acronym—that team, and yeah, and asks or conversations like this also perhaps with Economic Development and Community Building, because these processes are new and changing.

00:30:39 Speaker 07: And Matt is new; SEAT is reasonably new.

00:30:44 Speaker 07: The Mayor's Budget had our first one.

00:30:53 Speaker 07: What should we know for context in responding?

00:30:58 Speaker 06: Thanks for that question.

00:31:04 Speaker 06: And through Chair Koepke last year the request was referred to Council.

00:31:14 Speaker 06: To Council's budget deliberation so I sent it to committee based on just a bit of information this afternoon.

00:31:25 Speaker 06: So there was that report from February.

00:31:36 Speaker 06: I think what Council did last year was forgive the rental fee for the park, so it wasn't money out of pocket.

00:31:44 Speaker 06: Councillor Farmer, you're right.

00:31:47 Speaker 06: Last Friday, I understand the budget was approved.

00:32:04 Speaker 06: The SEAT process is the Special Events Activation Team, so Andy in booking and programming works with Jared and his team on developing that agreement, checking off things like insurance, permits he needs down there,

00:32:22 Speaker 06: the days that he'll use the park, and that sort of thing.

00:32:28 Speaker 06: So that will continue on, with or without a fee.

00:32:45 Speaker 06: There would be no change in the support that Summerfolk gets through SEAT or from our Parks and Open Spaces Division, and also through Public Works for road closure and things like that.

00:33:05 Speaker 06: So just to be clear, last year what we asked for—and I realize now that I didn't actually explicitly make the ask here—it was to forgive the rental fee.

00:33:17 Speaker 07: It was also for a ten thousand dollar cash donation or sponsorship.

00:33:28 Speaker 07: And from what I understood last year, I believe that came from an event fund.

00:33:37 Speaker 08: We did this at the same time last year.

00:33:43 Speaker 08: It was actually the same meeting, and we were in the same situation post-budget as well.

00:33:51 Speaker 08: Other questions or comments?

00:33:53 Speaker 08: Allie.

00:34:01 Speaker 08: So just to confirm, the ask this time is still to waive the fees in ten thousand, but over multi-year.

00:34:18 Speaker 08: Just there's no change to the cash amount request; I was looking for that for each year.

00:34:25 Speaker 08: Yeah.

00:34:26 Speaker 08: Okay, John, go ahead.

00:34:42 Speaker 08: Through the chair, just I guess for clarification on process: So if the committee was interested in exploring options for any or all of the request—either waiving fees for the rental of the park,

00:35:00 Speaker 08: which has a material benefit—or additionally the ten thousand dollar request, assuming that we may be in a position of surplus at the end of the fiscal year, what would the process be to advance that?

00:35:18 Speaker 08: Are we looking at a similar process to refer this request to council,

00:35:34 Speaker 08: or would the committee be in a position to move the request itself and have that go through as a recommendation in the minutes from the committee?

00:35:46 Speaker 08: Just before I go to staff to answer that:

00:36:02 Speaker 09: last year in the minutes I'd see where it said that Summerfolk would be looking to enter into an agreement with the city to work together annually to receive support.

00:36:19 Speaker 09: I just wanted to know if that has taken place, whether or not we've entered into an agreement.

00:36:40 Speaker 09: Yes, actually; we ended up working quite closely with Jen Wright and Vivica to share information for newsletters, to share information for shows, to share information for artists.

00:36:56 Speaker 03: But that's baby steps—that's where we're at.

00:37:00 Speaker 03: Yeah.

00:37:00 Speaker 03: Okay.

00:37:04 Speaker 03: So pursuing an agreement to continue this annually hasn't taken place.

00:37:19 Speaker 03: Also, several years ago the city got out of the business of giving grants and kind of turned that over to Community Foundation.

00:37:36 Speaker 03: And I believe Georgian Bay Folk Society has a fund with Community Foundation that they work with.

00:37:55 Speaker 03: But I will turn it over to staff now to comment on John's/Councillor Farmer's question: "If the committee had an idea, you could have a resolution that says,

00:38:10 Speaker 10: 'Subject to staff recommending potential sources of funding,' in your resolution."

00:38:20 Speaker 10: The city manager might have some other thoughts or ideas through you, Chair.

00:38:27 Speaker 10: Councillor Farmer?

00:38:33 Speaker 10: Yeah, because we are dealing with the new mayor's budget and some other things.

00:38:43 Speaker 10: I think if committee would like staff to move forward,

00:39:04 Speaker 10: a motion has to be moved for staff to report back maybe at the February committee meeting with an understanding of what the conversation was and look at options to either fund or move this request

00:39:18 Speaker 10: forward.

00:39:27 Speaker 10: But I think staff needs—we just need some time to take a look at how all the mechanics are working; we're speaking with our city treasurer, etc. Also, is anyone interested in pursuing that?

00:39:45 Speaker 10: I would make the recommendation to move forward with having staff go through and look at financing options.

00:39:55 Speaker 07: Does that make sense?

00:40:00 Speaker 07: Partnership financing: We'll just put those words in there.

00:40:08 Speaker 07: See if we have money to assist.

00:40:12 Speaker 07: Okay, everyone understand the motion.

00:40:23 Speaker 07: Through the chair, maybe a friendly amendment is requesting specifically for the February meeting of the committee; helpful to clarify timeline—and is that timeline possible on staff's part?

00:40:41 Speaker 07: As I understand the motion, you're asking staff to examine partnership financial options to support the request, which would be ten thousand dollars a year and the waiver of the rental fee.

00:41:03 Speaker 07: I think that could be part of the update when the minutes go forward to council, or it can come back to this committee next month,

00:41:21 Speaker 07: but it will be a different committee—that's all meaning membership on the committee will include a couple of different people.

00:41:37 Speaker 07: However, I'd like to see it back at this committee because I think the majority of members will be here and should know the issue, and there will be an explanation in the report on that.

00:41:58 Speaker 07: So if it's possible for the February meeting—hopefully that timing is yes—but I'm just explaining so now I can formally ask: Yes?

00:42:09 Speaker 07: Okay.

00:42:19 Speaker 03: So now we can move forward with the recommendation of staff proceeding to find financial partnerships and bringing back some recommendations at the February meeting.

00:42:28 Speaker 03: Period.

00:42:29 Speaker 03: Stop.

00:42:35 Speaker 03: Okay, vote on the motion; then all those in favor—and it's carried.

00:42:40 Speaker 03: Okay.

00:42:41 Speaker 03: Thank you.

00:42:42 Speaker 03: Thank you for coming.

00:42:52 Speaker 03: Next, we have a presentation from the city manager on community committee structure review.

00:42:56 Speaker 06: Your review?

00:43:01 Speaker 06: Thank you, Madam Chair and to committee.

00:43:08 Speaker 06: Yeah, so I am splitting duties with our City Clerk, Brianna.

00:43:13 Speaker 06: Brianna is away this week, so you've got me.

00:43:17 Speaker 06: I'm going to walk through a report.

00:43:26 Speaker 06: Council—sorry, let me refine that: Brianna has given me explicit notes for each slide.

00:43:42 Speaker 06: I am not a "notes person," but I'm going to go through her notes for each slide so we have everything on the up and up.

00:43:56 Speaker 06: In 2024 council directed staff prepare a report on committee structure options.

00:44:01 Speaker 06: This report was presented to council on December 15, 2025.

00:44:13 Speaker 06: At that meeting council requested that staff consult with City standing committees and the Art Gallery Advisory Committee prior to council making a decision on committee structure.

00:44:23 Speaker 06: The report and presentation that went to council were linked through your meeting agenda today.

00:44:38 Speaker 06: I will present a few background slides and then facilitate discussion of four questions provided in the agenda.

00:44:57 Speaker 06: The purpose of this discussion is to receive feedback and insight from public members; this feedback will be aggregated and presented to council in February.

00:45:11 Speaker 09: And if council decides to make changes to committee structure, those committee changes would not take effect until 2027.

00:45:33 Speaker 09: So they'd be looking at committee structure in February—but any changes that Council may want to adopt would not take effect until 2027.

00:45:43 Speaker 09: So what is a committee?

00:45:53 Speaker 08: The Municipal Act says that a committee includes advisory committees, subcommittees or similar entities established by council.

00:46:07 Speaker 08: The purpose of a committee is to assist council in decision making, policy development and oversight of specific areas; deeper discussion of issues; and an avenue for public input.

00:46:24 Speaker 08: For Owen Sound, committees are subject to the same procedural bylaw requirements as council meetings.

00:46:37 Speaker 08: Committees are flexible tools for governance, and there is no right or wrong answer for how they should be structured.

00:46:53 Speaker 08: As you can imagine, every municipality has a different approach to committees, and Owen Sound Council needs to determine what the right fit is for ourselves.

00:47:10 Speaker 08: Slide, please.

00:47:15 Speaker 07: This is a visual representation of our current committee structure.

00:47:24 Speaker 07: We have three standing committees, one advisory committee, and one ad hoc committee.

00:47:36 Speaker 07: Our standing and advisory committees have public members, and our ad hoc committees do not.

00:47:48 Speaker 07: There are five public members and four council members on standing committees.

00:47:57 Speaker 08: On the advisory committee, we have five public members and two council members.

00:48:04 Speaker 08: As you know, Council retains decision-making authority.

00:48:07 Speaker 08: Committees may be delegated specific tasks.

00:48:13 Speaker 08: Committees are used by Council to deepen discussion.

00:48:17 Speaker 08: Here, Deputy Mayor Scott Greig.

00:48:22 Speaker 08: Hear deputations and bring subject matter expertise.

00:48:32 Speaker 08: Council retains decision-making authority.

00:48:38 Speaker 08: Minutes for all of these committees are provided to Council for their approval.

00:48:49 Speaker 06: When considering committee structure, we are looking at factors such as the number and types of committees, the involvement of public members,

00:49:03 Speaker 06: and other elements such as time of meetings to ensure that decision-making processes are transparent, inclusive, and aligned with the community's long-term vision.

00:49:20 Speaker 06: Staff explored a variety of committee structure options, but six were presented to Council for their consideration last month.

00:49:35 Speaker 06: The options are: one, maintain the current structure with some enhancements; two, transition to a two-committee structure; three, transition to a three-committee structure; option four, transition to a four-committee structure; option five,

00:49:51 Speaker 06: transition to a seven-committee structure; and then option six, transition to an expanded committee of the whole structure.

00:50:14 Speaker 06: Today's discussion at Committee is not about which of these options should be selected, but about obtaining feedback from our public members that can help inform Council decision on that structure.

00:50:32 Speaker 06: So, the first question we'd like to pose to the public members is: As a public member, what challenges or drawbacks have you observed with the City's current committee structure?

00:50:49 Speaker 06: So the floor is open for comments to the City Manager, and I think I'll let you direct this back and forth.

00:51:07 Speaker 06: So before we start, also Christina, our Clerk tonight, is going to be taking copious amounts of notes and taking down everybody's comments.

00:51:32 Speaker 06: She'll be gathering all that, and as I mentioned, all of the Committee's public member comments will be gathered, aggregated into one element, and then taken to Council so they can see how everything's working.

00:51:53 Speaker 06: My intent tonight is not to direct the discussion, but from the public members, think about the question, provide input back.

00:52:11 Speaker 03: I am not going to lead you down a path of one option or another, nor will I suggest what might be a wrong comment versus an inappropriate comment or a right comment.

00:52:29 Speaker 03: It is really for your discussion as public members.

00:52:42 Speaker 03: Yeah, I'm really excited to be having this conversation and thinking about how to make the Community Services Committee structure most effective.

00:52:58 Speaker 03: Something that initially came to my head was that the learning curve is a huge challenge when you first start.

00:53:15 Speaker 07: I think it's very common; most people would say that the initial learning of how things work, how to find information,

00:53:35 Speaker 04: is a challenge—especially if you're not immersed in municipal government or don't have some background in it.

00:53:47 Speaker 04: I don't think that's necessarily a drawback outright.

00:54:03 Speaker 03: Sometimes that can lead to really refreshing points of view and approaches to this context.

00:54:12 Speaker 03: But definitely noting it as a challenge when you first start there.

00:54:28 Speaker 03: I think it took me maybe my first couple meetings to actually say something here, and that was even for me in a professional setting.

00:54:54 Speaker 03: I have been to this type of setting before, but sitting up here speaking is different—not beastly, but for lack of a better word—and I think staff do a really good job about that onboarding.

00:55:16 Speaker 03: I feel like it's not necessarily an outright lack of onboarding, but just noticing it as a challenge for people.

00:55:27 Speaker 03: I think this would probably dovetail well into Question Number Four you have; we can save that for after.

00:55:39 Speaker 06: And the other challenge that came to mind when I was thinking about this is sometimes being limited by what I don't know.

00:55:54 Speaker 06: For example, tonight while thinking about the budget process: I'm aware that the budget was passed.

00:56:09 Speaker 06: I've tried to keep generally up-to-date, but there are lots of meetings where, in a volunteer capacity, I am not necessarily involved at every key moment.

00:56:26 Speaker 06: And I'm really grateful for sometimes the added context I can bring, but it is definitely a challenge in terms of what we do interacting with other processes;

00:56:39 Speaker 06: it can be hard to know what you don't know at times.

00:56:44 Speaker 06: Thank you.

00:56:47 Speaker 06: Oh, sorry Chair.

00:56:50 Speaker 06: Do you want me to?

00:56:52 Speaker 06: Okay.

00:57:00 Speaker 06: Why don't I start with Lance over here as public member first, and then we'll continue moving around?

00:57:10 Speaker 01: No, no, that's absolutely fine.

00:57:30 Speaker 01: I didn't think about it until after you jumped in, but on the next questions, I will go this direction for the first question, then on the second question.

00:57:48 Speaker 01: Then Member Morgan, I'll start with you and come back this way.

00:57:59 Speaker 09: I've had the great benefit of working with committees in municipal settings and other settings for many years,

00:58:12 Speaker 09: and I have to say that the Owen Sound structure and processes are among the strongest I've ever experienced.

00:58:31 Speaker 09: I know that's not a drawback; you're looking for drawbacks on this question, but that is the context.

00:58:46 Speaker 09: So I think what we have here is really good, and certainly there can be improvements.

00:59:00 Speaker 08: But in terms of drawbacks, the only drawback I can see—and I think it's because of my history—is staff time.

00:59:18 Speaker 08: You've got numerous committees, and staff have to service each one of those committees.

00:59:33 Speaker 08: Given restraints and constraints with staff time and resources, I know it is a burden for staff: evening hours, additional hours after long days.

00:59:45 Speaker 08: To me, that—to me—that's a drawback of virtually any committee structure.

00:59:59 Speaker 08: If you went to a different setting with fewer committees, then you're shifting some of that burden onto public members by having them become knowledgeable in a much broader span of issues.

01:00:30 Speaker 08: So the only drawback I see really is staff timing and just getting back to Ali's point about not knowing what you don't know; for me, that's a real benefit for being a public member.

01:00:50 Speaker 08: You don't know, so you can ask the "stupid" question or add a comment saying, "Yeah, I don't know."

01:00:57 Speaker 01: Someone is going to correct you.

01:01:12 Speaker 04: There will be an expert around the table who says, "No, no, we have to go this way," but you can ask that stupid question.

01:01:33 Speaker 07: You can go places where perhaps a staff person cannot and say things in ways that a staff person or politician couldn't or shouldn't.

01:01:53 Speaker 07: So to me, that's tremendous benefit; so it is not necessarily a drawback of not having the knowledge.

01:02:03 Speaker 08: I'll leave it there for now.

01:02:07 Speaker 01: Thanks.

01:02:08 Speaker 01: Thank you, Lance Lloyd.

01:02:13 Speaker 01: I think the structure from my experience works very well.

01:02:30 Speaker 05: However, as Ali pointed out, it can be intimidating to come here and not have—in my case—not having any experience with this type of forum—and I still feel like I don't know enough.

01:02:46 Speaker 05: I don't know what to say.

01:02:53 Speaker 05: To be honest, I'm actually not that interested in certain topics but really interested in others.

01:03:10 Speaker 01: So I would suggest maybe there needs to be more people here; not just the two or three who are present right now.

01:03:19 Speaker 01: We need more members with a broad background.

01:03:37 Speaker 05: But I feel rather ignorant in terms of what goes on—that's part of the beauty of being here, that I've learned so much—but I feel like I've taken more away from this coming than I've given,

01:03:58 Speaker 05: and really probably should stay on to develop that confidence.

01:04:07 Speaker 05: But my time is up; I know I can continue but I'm not going to.

01:04:14 Speaker 05: It has been worthwhile though.

01:04:22 Speaker 05: So I guess I'm pleased with the way it's structured.

01:04:26 Speaker 05: Yeah, thank you.

01:04:27 Speaker 05: Thanks, Morgan.

01:04:37 Speaker 05: To echo what Lance was saying as well: I do find this structure sound.

01:04:55 Speaker 05: Since this is my second term and I've seen a couple other people come in, it's getting smoother; that orientation piece in February is getting a little more smooth.

01:05:20 Speaker 05: One recommendation I do have is maybe providing that package to them even before they walk into the room so they have an idea of what they're walking into again—not necessarily a drawback.

01:05:45 Speaker 05: It's known as a challenge and not necessarily due to the structure, but it's about getting people to volunteer for these roles.

01:05:59 Speaker 05: I know the City has some issues or hardships with that.

01:06:10 Speaker 05: One idea: this is going into Number Two now—but you know taking quotes; just as Lance said,

01:06:29 Speaker 05: "I got more out of this process than I felt like I put in," using that really get more engaged citizens involved.

01:06:45 Speaker 05: So yeah, other than drawbacks and challenges, I can't think of any more.

01:06:51 Speaker 05: Thank you, Member Farmer.

01:06:56 Speaker 05: Thank you for humoring me.

01:07:09 Speaker 05: A follow-up question: I appreciate the learning curve comment/question, and it strikes me there are maybe a number of learning curves.

01:07:30 Speaker 05: There's the learning curve of the Robert's Rules of Order-inspired process; there's the learning curve of the corporation and our own internal structure regarding who does what and how things work;

01:07:47 Speaker 05: and then there is also the learning curve for the specifics of the content we're dealing with—from urban planning to events, forestry, development, tourism, economic development too—that we've all lumped into this committee.

01:08:01 Speaker 11: I'd be curious: among those learning curves, is it the formal structure of how committees run?

01:08:09 Speaker 11: Is it the organizational mapping of the City?

01:08:18 Speaker 11: Or is it the content-specific stuff that was the greatest challenge—or maybe equally challenging for all three?

01:08:26 Speaker 11: Because our orientation to those different things has to be very different.

01:08:34 Speaker 11: Sorry through you Madam Chair; Councillor Farmer,

01:08:47 Speaker 11: if you don't mind—if I could since you have heard what Councillor Farmer was asking—maybe just give you some time to think about it and incorporate feedback when we hit Question Number Four on that aspect?

01:09:01 Speaker 11: That would help.

01:09:07 Speaker 11: And that gives you a few minutes then to think about that a little bit more, Ali.

01:09:20 Speaker 11: Could I ask a quick question actually... no, I'm going to save it for getting public feedback.

01:09:28 Speaker 11: I just edited myself.

01:09:42 Speaker 11: Thank you for the quick edit Morgan; we're going to send it back with Question Number Two and have the slide change accordingly.

01:09:55 Speaker 11: What are your proposed solutions to those challenges?

01:10:00 Speaker 11: Thank you.

01:10:04 Speaker 11: I do have a question: what inspired the 2024 review?

01:10:10 Speaker 11: What was the catalyst to bring this to the table?

01:10:14 Speaker 11: Were there issues to begin with?

01:10:22 Speaker 11: Through you Madam Chair, not any specific issues like we had one dominant issue requiring us to relook at things.

01:10:43 Speaker 11: We look as all processes within the City; committee structure was one of those things that we told Council we would come back and review—and it's good to have periodic reviews of everything we do.

01:11:02 Speaker 11: However in this case I thought actually somebody might ask: if Council asked for a review in 2024, why did it not come back until December the following year?

01:11:13 Speaker 11: And it sort of fits into your question; at least that is how I'm framing it.

01:11:49 Speaker 11: We had "Owen Sound Our Vision 2050" happening so we didn't want to start proposing a new committee structure ahead of what the outcome of Vision 2050 was going to look like.

01:12:30 Speaker 11: Again, the attached report that went to Council and the options set up are really designed—I'm hoping I'm not steering anybody in the wrong direction—to accommodate Vision 2050 themes rather than independent silos of departments.

01:12:51 Speaker 11: So that's why we waited for a year.

01:13:02 Speaker 11: But also part of the thinking was looking at committee structure again because we didn't know the outcome of where "Vision 2050" was going,

01:13:17 Speaker 11: and then in our opening comments we talk about this really being Council's decision on the structure;

01:13:30 Speaker 11: they have to figure out what is the best governance approach for all of this and how do we best advance Vision 2050 in the City's everyday work.

01:13:42 Speaker 11: So hopefully that answers your question.

01:13:52 Speaker 11: And I'll turn it over to Question Two for you now.

01:14:01 Speaker 11: For Question Number Two: proposed solutions to challenges.

01:14:09 Speaker 09: As mentioned, one challenge I've noted is just getting volunteers to sit on the committee.

01:14:28 Speaker 09: Pushing out a little bit more—maybe via social media like LinkedIn or X where professionals utilize their platforms—but also incorporating quotes from current members about what they got out of it as well.

01:14:53 Speaker 09: But again in terms of structure: personally I like the way it's set up because people can come in with knowledge of that area, whether broad or just one aspect of it.

01:15:08 Speaker 09: That is my two cents; yeah, I reiterate.

01:15:22 Speaker 06: In terms of structure has been something I attended Council meetings and gave thoughts about when that happened—I really think the structure as it is well-suited.

01:15:34 Speaker 05: I'm wary of things getting ballooned into more mega-committees.

01:15:45 Speaker 05: I also think there's a chance it could lead to more staff time in some ways.

01:16:00 Speaker 05: But so, in terms of proposed solutions for talking about intimidation—and answering your question about what parts are intimidating—I remember Farmer's question was: for me it was a lot like the City structure;

01:16:11 Speaker 11: I had to feel almost my own personal intimidation with how do you speak here?

01:16:24 Speaker 11: Public speaking and more related to whether it is Robert's or Robertson's Rules of Order—thank you—but I would relate those more as just gaining footing,

01:16:39 Speaker 11: whereas the City structure at times limited me from feeling like I was meaningfully contributing to certain things.

01:16:54 Speaker 11: Again we can debate again if that meaningfulness exists because I agree with what you said in terms of sometimes it is really valuable not to have that fully loaded all the time.

01:17:27 Speaker 11: A solution I think could be included is a bit of almost like a buddy system when first coming on board; when training happens,

01:17:45 Speaker 11: there should either be someone who has already served their term here or at least someone one can check in with saying "I'm lost—what do we do here?

01:18:03 Speaker 05: Who is the person to talk to about this?"

01:18:09 Speaker 05: Because you figure it out with time.

01:18:22 Speaker 12: As you go through things you get more comfortable knowing who to ask, but that could maybe break some of those boundaries initially.

01:18:44 Speaker 12: Lloyd: as I said previously, I am getting more members but that's the challenge and having a broader sort of paintbrush to see things through.

01:19:06 Speaker 10: And one thing I would suggest is an article in The Current.

01:19:22 Speaker 10: The Current has about 2,000 members; most are well-read and would be the type of people interested in participating—at least some of them anyway.

01:19:41 Speaker 10: So that's where I'd immediately go: a well-written article on the value of this—and maybe you've already done that.

01:19:48 Speaker 10: That would be powerful.

01:20:00 Speaker 05: Okay, having public members on committees—I think is really good thing and believe it's consistent with where our strategic plan is going in terms of public engagement and involvement.

01:20:18 Speaker 05: So to lose that I think would not be a good thing.

01:20:31 Speaker 05: In terms of solutions: I suggest there are probably some internal processes that could be adjusted to help if the challenge seen was staff workload.

01:20:45 Speaker 05: For example, what needs to come to committee for consideration?

01:21:03 Speaker 05: There have been many agendas where—again this is probably my background with fairly good knowledge of what goes on—things come to committee and I think "why did that even have to come?"

01:21:28 Speaker 05: It's interesting; love it but why?

01:21:41 Speaker 05: So maybe there are processes you can adjust so less actually has to come to committee.

01:21:54 Speaker 04: Frequency of meetings: Do committees have to meet every month, or if process changes occur, what comes to committee?

01:22:04 Speaker 11: Maybe frequency could be adjusted accordingly.

01:22:09 Speaker 11: And the buddy system is a great idea—a wonderful one;

01:22:22 Speaker 11: I've had that in past experiences where being buddied up with a seasoned pro can be very helpful though it also has some disadvantages but is very helpful in most cases.

01:22:34 Speaker 11: So those are things coming to mind right now.

01:22:44 Speaker 11: Great, thank you so much and we'll move on to Question Number Three.

01:22:54 Speaker 11: And Lance: I'm going to come back and start your direction again.

01:23:01 Speaker 11: What else should Council know to help them with their decision about the City's committee structure?

01:23:09 Speaker 11: That begs the question: what does Council need to know?

01:23:12 Speaker 11: How do I answer that?

01:23:16 Speaker 11: Can I get back to you on that?

01:23:27 Speaker 11: I think I might be able to extract one thing from your previous comments: public members are good.

01:23:43 Speaker 11: So maybe that is one thing relating to this question; also, having public involvement at advisory committee level is tremendous.

01:24:03 Speaker 11: I worked for a municipality that didn't have that and it was a tremendous gap in the decision process the City had to look for—this Kingston had to find other ways of getting public engagement and

01:24:16 Speaker 11: opinions—and it was clunky.

01:24:19 Speaker 11: There was a big gap there.

01:24:32 Speaker 11: So having public involvement however fashioned, numbers etc., is really good thing; I would hope Council maintains that in some form or fashion.

01:24:41 Speaker 11: Thank you.

01:24:42 Speaker 11: Thank you Lloyd.

01:24:52 Speaker 11: Frankly I don't know how to answer that question sorry um...

01:25:02 Speaker 11: I think Council should keep in mind we are talking about changing a system to align with strategic priorities that have just come out.

01:25:16 Speaker 11: Option Number One presented talks about refining terms of reference to incorporate these strategic priorities.

01:25:27 Speaker 11: So it seems preemptive to me to change a system without trying to integrate the priorities that just came into the system we currently have.

01:25:51 Speaker 04: If we find if we go into another term and say "wow, we are really out of alignment," I think that's worthwhile—but if we haven't tried with this system first, it feels preemptive.

01:26:08 Speaker 04: Another thing Council should consider:

01:26:19 Speaker 04: when we say there is trouble getting applicant interest—I am definitely not doubting that looking at some numbers from last year—but maybe wonder if Council considers whether we are moving drastically on what might just be

01:26:41 Speaker 04: a hard year?

01:26:48 Speaker 04: I see next year an election coming up; people considering "oh, I don't want to run but I want to get more involved."

01:27:03 Speaker 08: We might find next year is a boon.

01:27:10 Speaker 08: So I'm curious to see that.

01:27:23 Speaker 08: All right: I guess I'm cautious about saying it's too hard or we gotta reduce immediately because looking at 2023 and 2024,

01:27:38 Speaker 08: those seemed like better years so yeah—it just feels quick reaction to say "bad year; this is too much."

01:27:50 Speaker 11: Another thing I want Council also consider: bigger mandates for committees.

01:27:57 Speaker 11: If being honest that would push me away.

01:28:06 Speaker 11: I'd have a harder time justifying commitment because there'd be more things—as mentioned—that are not my wheelhouse and I don't think I'd have the time.

01:28:15 Speaker 11: to commit to learning the background in order meaningfully contribute, and I don't think I'm alone in that.

01:28:22 Speaker 11: Already there is an intimidation factor with these.

01:28:31 Speaker 11: I think bigger mandates are more intimidating.

01:28:45 Speaker 11: I think it would also mean we see more senior staff having to come to these meetings because there are broader things they have to be commented on.

01:29:07 Speaker 11: Whereas committee meetings that maybe have a more direct focus on certain things allow some of that to be delegated to only certain staff.

01:29:22 Speaker 11: Yeah, because I definitely appreciate the desire for work-life balance.

01:29:30 Speaker 08: I think we all should strive for that.

01:29:42 Speaker 08: But I actually wonder if trying to make sure agendas are as fulsome at all times is going to lead to public member burnout, which is a volunteer position.

01:30:01 Speaker 09: Sometimes having an incredibly dense agenda is going to be more of a challenge, and I think it could lead to the same staff having to be at every single one each time.

01:30:16 Speaker 09: Yeah, that's it.

01:30:17 Speaker 09: Thank you, Morgan.

01:30:20 Speaker 09: I don't think I have anything else much to add.

01:30:26 Speaker 11: Yeah, other than I like the buddy system.

01:30:37 Speaker 11: You know, you saw me tonight trying to rumble through, ramble through a recommendation, and I still—I've been here for four years—and I still can't do it.

01:30:51 Speaker 11: So maybe a buddy system would be helpful.

01:31:04 Speaker 11: But I think they need to take into consideration that staff time, as Lance mentioned—is—you know, I see them sitting here, and I feel for them.

01:31:16 Speaker 11: However, they are the subject matter experts bringing the information to us, so I understand.

01:31:35 Speaker 11: Going back to the lean side of things, where you know that keyword that has been bouncing around for a couple years—yeah, does everything need to come up to council?

01:31:57 Speaker 11: However, from a general public manner and perspective, it is nice to see there is another approval process before it gets the city's rubber stamp or council's rubber stamp.

01:32:11 Speaker 01: You know, it just adds democracy into it.

01:32:15 Speaker 01: So that's my two cents.

01:32:20 Speaker 01: Thank you, Morgan.

01:32:21 Speaker 01: And we'll go to question number four.

01:32:37 Speaker 01: And before I read question number four, Councillor Farmer, could I just have you repeat your couple requests?

01:32:49 Speaker 01: So as we go through four, then the members can comment on that.

01:33:09 Speaker 03: So when I was asking about the learning curve, I broke it down: Is it the learning curve about the procedural bylaw and rules of order where it would help to have more orientation?

01:33:30 Speaker 01: Or was that the learning curve that was too steep?

01:33:37 Speaker 11: Was it "who does what, where, and how" within City Hall as an organization?

01:33:49 Speaker 11: Or is it the learning curve on subject-specific things—from what is a community improvement grant to what is a site plan approval, what is a high-risk tree, what is community development?

01:34:02 Speaker 11: Thank you.

01:34:11 Speaker 11: And one question clarification: I have a question—could better support participation for public members?

01:34:24 Speaker 11: Does that mean the five of us sitting around the table, or does it mean people in seats asking more questions?

01:34:37 Speaker 11: Through you, Madam Chair—it's about the members on the committee.

01:34:45 Speaker 01: I think we're pretty fortunate in this committee and have been over the last couple years to be those people.

01:34:57 Speaker 06: If I don't understand, I'm going to ask the question.

01:35:12 Speaker 06: So one thing—if you are doing orientation—is providing that: you know, rules of order, structure, content—I think it's a mix where all that learning could occur.

01:35:31 Speaker 06: Rules of order maybe a little bit more so people can understand when am I allowed to ask questions.

01:35:44 Speaker 06: Also, understanding this recommendation—coming up through staff just to advise us?

01:35:54 Speaker 01: Is this for discussion?

01:35:59 Speaker 05: Are we looking to make a decision?

01:36:17 Speaker 05: Because sometimes when it is just to advise us of something, those conversations can be an hour long.

01:36:41 Speaker 05: So understanding what is needed out of each agenda item to a certain extent.

01:36:50 Speaker 01: But again, that's the rules of order that fall into that.

01:37:00 Speaker 13: But I think that's about it.

01:37:11 Speaker 13: Yeah, I think to answer the question for me: it was "who does what" in City Hall.

01:37:31 Speaker 13: And learning curve on subject-specific things—it is something I'm sure with each one; it can be like—I can dive in and figure this out.

01:37:49 Speaker 13: But it is about we all have other things going on in life, and for a volunteer position,

01:38:05 Speaker 13: it can at times be tough to do maybe the full dive you would like to do for each subject.

01:38:15 Speaker 13: So I think I agree.

01:38:23 Speaker 13: I think keeping up—there is—it's all of it for sure—and just speaking personally, that was the biggest curve for me.

01:38:39 Speaker 13: I think there was a workshop last fall; I can't remember exactly what month it was in—that was really beneficial for understanding procedural elements of this,

01:39:03 Speaker 13: and I think keep that going even if people have already attended—I would probably attend again as a refresher on what it was.

01:39:26 Speaker 13: So I think it's really worthwhile to keep doing that: cheat sheets almost like a binder that could just exist here for people.

01:39:45 Speaker 13: And we did get things; I remember back in February when many years ago starting,

01:40:02 Speaker 13: it was getting some of that—but almost like "here's a binder" might help just to keep those as something you bring along to a meeting.

01:40:15 Speaker 13: I think just to keep that going.

01:40:27 Speaker 13: I think there is probably room for discussion about how do we get more people engaged to come to committees as public members?

01:40:41 Speaker 13: But I want to stay within the boundary you've created.

01:40:53 Speaker 13: So if we have time, maybe that's something we could talk about.

01:40:58 Speaker 13: Chair Kupke—thank you.

01:41:11 Speaker 13: I just wanted, excuse me, to provide a few comments since I've been here a long time.

01:41:34 Speaker 13: Years ago, we did not televise committee meetings and it was much more relaxed; people felt a little more comfortable asking an excusable question or "stupid" question,

01:41:53 Speaker 13: getting a little more familiar on back-and-forth discussion on how things run and so on—and I realize now we have to be more open and transparent.

01:42:11 Speaker 13: And since it is televised, televising may be a little bit awkward for some people—just to mention that.

01:42:26 Speaker 13: I'm interested in what interests me, and certain topics just don't engage me—that's nobody's fault.

01:42:41 Speaker 13: And I found that some meetings were immensely detailed on topics frankly I wasn't that interested in—but that's okay because maybe Lance next to me—he's his thing.

01:42:54 Speaker 13: That's okay.

01:43:08 Speaker 13: So there were a few meetings—I don't know—maybe I attended 25 meetings, very long and very detailed—and I keep asking myself why do we have to know all this?

01:43:27 Speaker 13: And that sort of put me off a little bit—but that didn't happen very often.

01:43:36 Speaker 13: And so can we reevaluate what comes to this committee?

01:43:40 Speaker 13: That's what I suggest.

01:43:43 Speaker 13: Yeah—thank you.

01:43:51 Speaker 13: Just a couple things: picking up on what the Chair mentioned in terms of televising meetings,

01:44:03 Speaker 13: and I appreciate it—it needs to be more open for public transparency—but being in a horseshoe formation really doesn't encourage dialogue at a committee level.

01:44:35 Speaker 13: We are trying to have discussion and understand things; if you could wire up a meeting room so we're all sitting around a table—that is still an understanding.

01:44:46 Speaker 14: I understand there's limitations and costs, but that might be something to consider.

01:44:51 Speaker 14: Is the horseshoe not intimidating?

01:44:57 Speaker 14: It just stifles—whatever the word is—it kind of it's formal, unnatural.

01:45:07 Speaker 14: Another aspect in terms of agendas: what comes forward—and that sort of thing—the system I'm familiar with would have information reports; these are clearly for your information.

01:45:26 Speaker 14: If you have questions, contact whoever you need to contact—not necessarily to be discussed at committee meetings unless there's an absolute groundswell and motions put forward.

01:45:43 Speaker 14: I want to consider this so we as members know it is just information: if we're interested, we read it; if not, we don't.

01:46:02 Speaker 14: Other reports are those that need a decision—that's what we ask the committee to do tonight—to consider report A or topic A and B, C, and F—just for your information—and maybe improve that process flow.

01:46:19 Speaker 14: Thank you so much, and if I could have the next slide please?

01:46:32 Speaker 14: All right thank you for your feedback; we really appreciate it, and I'll say thanks on behalf of Brianna who couldn't be here tonight—we will turn the meeting back over to the Chair.

01:46:58 Speaker 14: Thank you so much for everyone's feedback—I know that is incredibly helpful when they are doing this with each committee asking for their feedback—and culminating that bringing it back to council—so it will help for better

01:47:12 Speaker 14: decision making and maybe a right road forward.

01:47:31 Speaker 14: John, through the chair: if people like me sometimes think of a good question or comment on the way home—is it still possible to provide that feedback to staff or through the Chair?

01:47:48 Speaker 14: Thank you for "through you."

01:47:56 Speaker 13: Chair Kepke—to Councillor Farmer—yes—you can provide that feedback back to Brianna, the City Clerk.

01:48:10 Speaker 13: So if light bulbs go off please send her whatever you're thinking about and she'll incorporate that information.

01:48:25 Speaker 13: Sorry—one final thing: To answer the question what else should council know?

01:48:47 Speaker 13: That we have great staff—we have great reports, great information—they need to know that what we have here is not broken—it's very good; it's a very high standard—so please don't break it.

01:49:00 Speaker 13: Thank you everyone.

01:49:13 Speaker 13: We'll move on to the next item which is public forum and I don't believe there's anyone here to ask questions or correspondence so we see—we didn't receive any correspondence items.

01:49:41 Speaker 13: There's a report regarding parks and open space for Weaver's Creek Boardwalk and I'll turn that over to the Director.

01:50:01 Speaker 13: Thank you Madam Chair—and just before we start on Weaver's Creek if I could just go back to the Summerfolk request because I think I misspelled it?

01:50:25 Speaker 13: I think I misspoke and message the Director of Corporate Services, who reminded me I was looking at the budget or sorry, the minutes for the recommendation, which spoke to the fees.

01:50:51 Speaker 13: She reminded me in last year's base budget there was a one-time funding funded through reserves for that ten thousand dollars.

01:51:04 Speaker 13: So I think I didn't provide you with the best information because it was in the budget.

01:51:14 Speaker 13: But we will bring that back in February.

01:51:29 Speaker 13: Just to add, I believe that one-time funding was in recognition of their fiftieth anniversary, and it was said at the time that a precedence was not being set.

01:51:42 Speaker 13: Correct.

01:51:45 Speaker 13: Thank you, Madam Chair, and on to Weavers Creek.

01:51:59 Speaker 13: And I'm really pleased to introduce Jeff Graham, who's here this evening to support this report.

01:52:12 Speaker 13: So I'll do a bit of an introduction, and then maybe Jeff will speak to some of the options.

01:52:32 Speaker 13: So the Harrison Park Master Plan, approved in 2024 through this committee, is a ten-year plan, and it really does guide the development, renewal, and operational management of the park's vast natural resources, the amenities,

01:52:52 Speaker 13: the buildings, the structures, and the other infrastructure.

01:53:06 Speaker 13: So that plan, if you recall, divided the park into nine sort of functional areas, and the Weavers Creek Boardwalk is in that west Woodland area,

01:53:27 Speaker 13: so it's in the southeast or sorry southwest section of the park.

01:53:35 Speaker 13: So the boardwalk is really described in that section as one of the predominant features.

01:53:44 Speaker 13: So the boardwalk has two sections.

01:53:57 Speaker 13: It's described as a boardwalk, but there are two sections of boardwalk and two sections of trail, and perhaps Jeff will talk about that.

01:54:16 Speaker 13: And just beyond the boardwalk, beyond the property the City owns, is Humphreys Falls, which is sort of what is the attraction of the Weavers Creek Boardwalk.

01:54:35 Speaker 13: So, the master plan has both operational and capital recommendations that are relevant as we consider this.

01:54:50 Speaker 13: And in terms of the operation and maintenance, it encouraged us to update the tree inventory in this area.

01:54:59 Speaker 13: That's been done.

01:55:09 Speaker 13: There are several high priority trees along that stream environment that need to be removed before we start this project.

01:55:19 Speaker 13: And Parks has a good handle on that for later this spring.

01:55:33 Speaker 13: The capital recommendation included that we develop a plan for consideration by Committee and Council with alternatives to address the failed Weavers Creek boardwalk,

01:56:00 Speaker 13: and it sort of anticipated modifying the capital budget for consideration as required to support the completion of this high priority project, and the Weavers Creek Boardwalk was a high priority or a short term project.

01:56:31 Speaker 13: So GSS Engineering was retained to undertake an assessment of the options respecting the reconstruction of the trail and boardwalk.

01:56:42 Speaker 13: And I feel like we're really well served by Jeff and GSS Engineering.

01:56:53 Speaker 04: Jeff was involved in 2003 when the boardwalk was first built.

01:56:57 Speaker 04: So his draft assessment is attached.

01:57:05 Speaker 04: The report presents four alternatives to consider, and the preferred alternative is option one.

01:57:17 Speaker 04: So my report identifies sort of the next steps.

01:57:21 Speaker 04: We have consultation and permitting.

01:57:26 Speaker 13: It includes Saw Grey Sauble Conservation.

01:57:34 Speaker 13: Our Building Group has said no building permit.

01:57:45 Speaker 13: The County Joint Accessibility Committee and Jeff will maybe speak to MNR and DFO because that was a little up in the air the last time we spoke.

01:58:10 Speaker 13: In terms of funding, the approved capital plan currently has funding of one hundred and forty thousand dollars, and based on the budget that's presented in the financial section of the report,

01:58:26 Speaker 13: we're recommending an increase in the Council budget.

01:58:39 Speaker 13: So, and that is available in the Capital Reserve, and that will allow GSS to provide oversight during the construction window.

01:59:04 Speaker 13: So the recommendation is that this Committee would recommend Council approve moving forward with option one, the preferred option, generally as described in the report by GSS Engineering, subject to the consultation and permitting,

01:59:27 Speaker 01: and then that the Committee would modify the approved capital budget.

01:59:49 Speaker 01: So happy to take any comments on the report and subject to your agreement, Councillor or Chair Kepky, perhaps Jeff could just speak to the various options and why option one is the preferred option.

02:00:04 Speaker 15: Jeff, do you want to come forward?

02:00:08 Speaker 15: Thanks very much.

02:00:11 Speaker 15: It's a pleasure to be in front of your Committee tonight.

02:00:16 Speaker 15: Thanks, Pam, for retaining us to do this project.

02:00:28 Speaker 15: As you've mentioned, I do have quite a bit of history with the Scenic Cedar Order of Good Cheer.

02:00:36 Speaker 15: Who did the project?

02:00:42 Speaker 15: I was thinking of what my role was back in 2003, and I really can't remember.

02:00:50 Speaker 15: I had four little kids under 10.

02:00:58 Speaker 15: I think at that time my role in the cheer was sort of in a slide mode.

02:01:10 Speaker 15: So because I was down there thinking, I don't remember if there were ever drawings produced for the project at the time.

02:01:25 Speaker 15: I don't remember really who was hands on buying the wood, nailing it together, and things like that.

02:01:42 Speaker 15: But I do have lots of history with those types of projects, with the Good Cheer Group and other projects I've done relating to river work or conservation,

02:01:53 Speaker 15: as well as sort of hard service and infrastructure.

02:02:00 Speaker 15: But to Lloyd's comment, I don't want to bother you with all sorts of detail unless you have any questions.

02:02:09 Speaker 15: But your request, Pam, was just review the alternatives quickly.

02:02:20 Speaker 15: So option one was to rebuild the trail as it is, and as you mentioned, there's really the first boardwalk section.

02:02:42 Speaker 15: Then it goes to a gravel trail, then another boardwalk section, and then what I call the fourth section, the second gravel trail, and I do think personally, and it's really a personal opinion,

02:02:56 Speaker 15: the boardwalk has so much charm in that type of environment.

02:03:04 Speaker 15: And replace it with all gravel or something, I think would lose its charm.

02:03:12 Speaker 15: It's also a rough and tumble type environment down there.

02:03:23 Speaker 15: So if you're concerned about accessibility with people without handicaps necessarily for walking, but using the boardwalk, I think is the best option to allow access through that area,

02:03:42 Speaker 15: and I really don't remember back in 2003 if it was ever really considered accessibility.

02:03:51 Speaker 15: But I think it just works out.

02:03:57 Speaker 03: You start at the pool and you slowly go uphill, but it's a very gentle climbing grade,

02:04:11 Speaker 03: and using the boardwalk interface with the gravel sections is probably the best way to maintain that easy accessibility for everybody.

02:04:28 Speaker 03: So that was option one, more or less rebuild it as it is with some improvements.

02:04:44 Speaker 03: Second option was to rebuild the lower section of boardwalk, but totally eliminate the second section of boardwalk and just replace it with more gravel trail.

02:05:02 Speaker 03: Option three: take away the first boardwalk section right by the pool and head uphill and through the trees on the natural valley slope, and build a trail up there.

02:05:23 Speaker 15: And it's feasible, but it probably will never give you AODA requirements you need, like at least a minimum of twelve to one slope.

02:05:41 Speaker 15: And I do think there are all sorts of things that could go wrong with that plan if you're trying to build a flat trail across a slope while doing this at the same time.

02:06:07 Speaker 15: Trying to build like a little retaining wall or something like that, and whoever destabilizes the slope there could just go from bad to worse.

02:06:15 Speaker 15: So we do talk about that option where we have that through-the-forest trail section.

02:06:26 Speaker 15: Option four was to keep the overland trail in lieu of the first section of boardwalk.

02:06:42 Speaker 15: Go back to the gravel section which exists—the first gravel section—and then take away the second boardwalk section and make it gravel as well.

02:06:54 Speaker 15: So you'd be on a trail over hill and dale, and then through gravel up to the end.

02:07:09 Speaker 15: And option five was just to remove the entire trail and just take it all back to nature.

02:07:27 Speaker 15: So those were the options we looked at, and I sort of came up with those in isolation of any discussion with Pam.

02:07:38 Speaker 03: And it's also interesting.

02:07:53 Speaker 03: I didn't know until I saw your report that your estimate of capital cost was remarkably the same as mine in a way.

02:08:05 Speaker 15: You had about one hundred and forty, and I came up with one hundred and forty-five.

02:08:15 Speaker 15: So that was perhaps a happy coincidence.

02:08:19 Speaker 15: The only time we'll tell if we're close.

02:08:27 Speaker 15: So.

02:08:28 Speaker 15: I'm going to leave it there.

02:08:31 Speaker 15: Entertain any questions.

02:08:32 Speaker 15: Go ahead.

02:08:33 Speaker 15: All right.

02:08:34 Speaker 15: Option two.

02:08:39 Speaker 15: Option two, I believe, was the boardwalk and then gravel or packed stone.

02:08:48 Speaker 15: After that, am I correct?

02:08:49 Speaker 15: There we go.

02:08:51 Speaker 15: Right.

02:08:51 Speaker 15: Sorry.

02:08:52 Speaker 15: Yeah.

02:08:57 Speaker 15: Boardwalk section, then gravel, and then remove the second boardwalk section and make it gravel.

02:09:04 Speaker 15: It's probably possible to do that.

02:09:11 Speaker 15: You could rip out all the wood section for the second section of boardwalk and put that back to gravel.

02:09:22 Speaker 15: So does this option two meet accessibility for wheelchairs?

02:09:29 Speaker 15: And what's the difference in price between that and the first one?

02:09:36 Speaker 15: Here we go.

02:09:38 Speaker 15: Okay.

02:09:44 Speaker 15: I'm having a hard time reading my tiny little print here.

02:09:50 Speaker 15: So option two, we said would be about $100,000.

02:09:54 Speaker 15: So boardwalk, and then the rest is gravel.

02:09:59 Speaker 15: So you'd save $45,000 or so.

02:10:00 Speaker 15: Accessibility.

02:10:06 Speaker 15: I have to admit, when I think about accessibility, I am looking at nice flat boardwalk.

02:10:22 Speaker 15: When you do get to even the existing gravel pathways, especially the first gravel section, it's a little bit on a slope and probably should be tidied up actually.

02:10:39 Speaker 15: But I think you could build a new gravel section to replace the second section of boardwalk, brand new.

02:10:48 Speaker 15: You could get that dead flat and stable.

02:10:56 Speaker 03: It could be up a little bit high.

02:11:06 Speaker 03: We have to keep in mind one nice thing about the boardwalk.

02:11:22 Speaker 09: It does have handrails, so you just might be on the flat gravel that could fall off three feet down into the surrounding land and water.

02:11:31 Speaker 09: I'm not sure what AODA says about guards.

02:11:39 Speaker 09: You know we go down sidewalks all the time.

02:11:53 Speaker 09: Never think about a guard rail, but under the building code, if you're two feet above, say, surrounding grade, you should have a railing or a guard system.

02:12:18 Speaker 09: So I visualize the second section maybe being supported on either side by wood, maybe raising it up one foot, and maybe perhaps six feet wide,

02:12:39 Speaker 13: or wide enough that two wheelchairs could go side by side, and packed down hard with stone chips, so it would be wheelchair accessible.

02:12:47 Speaker 13: We've done that at the hospital, and it's just going.

02:12:55 Speaker 13: I'm just going through that in my mind.

02:13:05 Speaker 13: It's not the best, and pushing a wheelchair on a rainy day or a damp day on stone is pretty hard.

02:13:15 Speaker 07: And but I'm just thinking about that in my mind, spinning that over.

02:13:21 Speaker 07: If you're saving $40,000 dollars.

02:13:23 Speaker 07: Allie, go ahead.

02:13:25 Speaker 07: This may be a question for staff.

02:13:30 Speaker 07: Has these options been given to Grey Sauble for preliminary consultation?

02:13:42 Speaker 07: Because I'm sure the permitting process for talking about a slope, or retaining wall, or putting in gravel, whether it was boardwalk, I'm sure they would have comments about the ecological perspective of that.

02:14:01 Speaker 07: So, if we instead of choosing an option and then finding out Grey Sauble maybe has a strong opinion on this, I'm just curious if that's happened.

02:14:20 Speaker 07: Through the chair, Jeff did send an early kind of concept to Grace all before their feedback.

02:14:39 Speaker 07: Before developing the options that are presented here, you know, and I I know you're thinking about the boardwalk, but keeping it out up and out of that sort of sensitive environment has, I think,

02:14:52 Speaker 08: some advantages too.

02:15:02 Speaker 08: Lloyd, you know, I know we're talking about accessibility, but also trying to keep it out of that sort of challenging natural environment, making sure we minimize the impact there too is a real advantage,

02:15:17 Speaker 08: I think.

02:15:25 Speaker 08: I should say that we have not engaged with the CA on the Overland Trail up to the woods.

02:15:43 Speaker 08: It was strictly a question to them to say, "Here's what I think we should do to make the trail better," and it has to do with all this clear stone base we put down first,

02:16:11 Speaker 01: and they didn't really like that.

02:16:19 Speaker 01: They wanted; they'd rather have put in gabion baskets full of rock to support the thing.

02:16:28 Speaker 05: And I said, I don't want to do that because you'll never get one gabion basket to really mesh with the next one.

02:16:31 Speaker 05: It could be a wonky thing.

02:16:31 Speaker 05: But that's where we are.

02:16:31 Speaker 05: But we do have correspondence from them now that they're generally in agreement with our little plan to have at least that first section of boardwalk on clear stone with some larger rock on the outside,

02:16:32 Speaker 05: just to protect it from the currents.

02:16:32 Speaker 05: I think they're going to be fine with it.

02:16:32 Speaker 05: My original concern was they would turn down the whole thing because they have pretty strong regulations normally about bringing fill into regional floodplains.

02:16:32 Speaker 05: So here's a case where we're bringing gravel now into a place they could consider a floodplain, but that they never seem to have a concern about that.

02:16:34 Speaker 05: The volume is relatively small, and they have rules on how much fill you can bring into floodplains.

02:16:34 Speaker 05: But I was worried that that could be a showstopper right from the start.

02:16:35 Speaker 05: But apparently it isn't.

02:16:35 Speaker 05: But apparently, it doesn't.

02:16:35 Speaker 05: Morgan, go ahead.

02:16:36 Speaker 05: To clarify, are any of these options AODA regulated?

02:16:38 Speaker 05: Like, are any of them we would get the rubber stamp of approval?

02:16:39 Speaker 05: We haven't done sort of the AODA checklist.

02:16:39 Speaker 05: There are exemptions in the regulation that say.

02:16:40 Speaker 05: The regulation that says, "Hey, if you're in a natural environment, you should strive to meet as many of them as you can.

02:16:40 Speaker 05: But if you can't meet everything, there are exemptions.

02:16:41 Speaker 05: So, you know, subject to knowing which option we would pick, we would work really hard to meet as many of them as we can.

02:16:41 Speaker 05: We would present it to the Joint Accessibility Advisory Committee and receive their input and feedback before we would finalize the design and go to tender."

02:16:41 Speaker 05: Sunid, through you, Chair Kapki.

02:16:41 Speaker 05: Just to comment, thank you, Jeff, for the excellent assessment report.

02:16:42 Speaker 05: And with that, I think it is a much-awaited project.

02:16:42 Speaker 05: We've heard about Weaver's Creek.

02:16:43 Speaker 05: I think how many times, and I'm glad to see that it's moving forward.

02:16:43 Speaker 05: And I'm happy to move the recommendation.

02:16:43 Speaker 05: And thank you, John.

02:16:44 Speaker 05: Through the chair, I was just hoping to get some more feedback on this.

02:16:44 Speaker 05: Mr. Chair, I was just hoping to get some more feedback.

02:16:44 Speaker 05: There is with the conversation about budgets recently and the limitations of capital funding.

02:16:44 Speaker 05: I understand that with the recommendation that has been moved, there are sufficient reserves to make this project possible.

02:16:45 Speaker 05: We've also just added the scenic tower lookout like other capital projects.

02:16:45 Speaker 05: When my understanding is, when this was constructed, it was done in partnership with a variety of local organizations and businesses.

02:16:46 Speaker 05: The sign lists everyone from the MPP to local nurseries and the MNR.

02:16:46 Speaker 05: And I'm curious, in this reincarnation of the boardwalk, is it possible for us to reach out to some of those other founding partners as well?

02:16:47 Speaker 05: For the potential for capital contributions.

02:16:47 Speaker 05: I'll ask one question at a time.

02:16:47 Speaker 05: That'll be my first one.

02:16:48 Speaker 05: Through the chair, I think there are times where we can use community groups, and I think the Bowley Arbor that was constructed by the students at OSDSS in memory of Barry Bowley,

02:16:49 Speaker 05: brought forward by the family, was a really great example, and it was a project that was of a scale where that would work.

02:16:49 Speaker 05: This project and its staff who said, "Hey, maybe we can work with volunteers to do this."

02:16:51 Speaker 05: They did so in 2003, and I think both Jeff and I would agree that the regulatory framework today is much different than it was in 2003.

02:16:51 Speaker 05: And we have a list of groups: Grey Sauble, MNR, DFO, that we need to talk to.

02:16:52 Speaker 05: This will be complicated construction.

02:16:52 Speaker 05: We are working with the Scenic City Order of Good Cheer.

02:16:54 Speaker 05: I hope they wouldn't mind that I would say that they're older than they were in 2003,

02:16:56 Speaker 05: and they are really keen to work with us on the upgrade to the playground and splash pad at Kelsey Beach at Neiwash Park.

02:16:56 Speaker 05: But this type of project that would be more hands-on is outside of their scope.

02:16:57 Speaker 05: We've heard we hear from visitors to Harrison Park that they really want this open through the master plan process.

02:16:58 Speaker 05: It was a high priority, and I guess all of that to really say, if we want to do this, it requires a certain amount of funds.

02:16:58 Speaker 05: There are funds in the capital reserve for parks that can support the project as presented through the chair.

02:16:58 Speaker 05: The report makes it clear that a wet, perpetually shady ravine is a hard environment for wood.

02:16:58 Speaker 05: Was consideration given to maybe giving a longer lifespan to this incarnation of the walkway by exploring other materials that don't rot quite so much?

02:16:59 Speaker 05: Yeah, very good question.

02:16:59 Speaker 05: That's really the question: Can we build this to have a much longer service life than the first one?

02:16:59 Speaker 05: The first one was built with wood that just came from local mills, you know, Benedite Mills, as far as I know, and not pressure treated.

02:17:00 Speaker 05: Some of the failures down there, I think, are technique that was used that has caused the wood to break like stresses.

02:17:00 Speaker 05: I've had a lot of discussion with the conservation authority.

02:17:00 Speaker 05: They use...

02:17:00 Speaker 05: With the Conservation Authority, they used a similar construction design on their new ones.

02:17:01 Speaker 05: They have little bridges up at Ingles Falls, and one actually on Rockland Creek.

02:17:01 Speaker 05: I talked to Morgan Barry about those today.

02:17:02 Speaker 05: Like how long have they been there?

02:17:02 Speaker 05: But at the end of the day, other materials.

02:17:02 Speaker 05: We had a little chat about metal.

02:17:02 Speaker 05: I mean, you could go with structural aluminum, be kind of a custom fabrication.

02:17:03 Speaker 05: I don't know where the prices would land on that.

02:17:03 Speaker 05: It would certainly look pretty industrial in that environment.

02:17:04 Speaker 05: Plastic wood was talked about.

02:17:05 Speaker 05: We did not do a deep dive into plastic wood.

02:17:05 Speaker 05: I have a plastic wood deck in my house.

02:17:06 Speaker 05: Interesting; the plastic wood is denser and more heavy per cubic foot of material than wood is, but it's also not as strong.

02:17:06 Speaker 05: You can feel it bend under your weight.

02:17:07 Speaker 05: I think more than wood.

02:17:07 Speaker 05: On the other hand, it's not going to rot away on me.

02:17:08 Speaker 05: So pros and cons.

02:17:08 Speaker 05: But we did not do the deep dive on plastic.

02:17:08 Speaker 05: Wood; I don't think it would have the charm, even with a wood grain in it, you'd ever get with real wood.

02:17:09 Speaker 05: Then there's all sorts of even more exotic components.

02:17:09 Speaker 05: You could go to like West Coast cedar that might have better lifespan than pressure-treated wood.

02:17:09 Speaker 05: And my whole analysis of cost was based on products you're going to get at Home Depot or any other local lumber store, using the brown Sienna Pressure Treatment system that you do get now.

02:17:10 Speaker 05: So the old Greenwood is out, and I did another review today of what is the environmental impact of the Micro-Sierra Brown pressure-treated wood, especially around sensitive aquatic environments,

02:17:11 Speaker 05: and it appears to be much better than the old green pressure treated.

02:17:11 Speaker 05: It doesn't leach copper as much as the old wood did, and that is a toxic metal in aquatic environments.

02:17:13 Speaker 05: So it's...

02:17:13 Speaker 05: I mean, it's a great question, John.

02:17:14 Speaker 05: I don't really have a good answer tonight.

02:17:15 Speaker 05: It's another deep dive, and probably plastic is the only thing I could think of to use in lieu of wood, and it's probably worth a look at.

02:17:15 Speaker 05: But I suspect the price of the materials alone would be double that of the wood, and then you've got to consider whether or not you can get the plastic lumber in kind-of structural member dimensions.

02:17:15 Speaker 05: Structural member dimensions, like for instance, I'm recommending two-by-ten joists running vertically underneath.

02:17:15 Speaker 05: I'm not sure even if building code really identifies plastic as being sort of approved under a building code thing; we don't necessarily fall under the building code,

02:17:16 Speaker 05: but we definitely want this thing to be structural.

02:17:16 Speaker 05: And if it does go to final, I do want to get a structural review of our design—which is not the back of a napkin—but I want to make sure it's going to work.

02:17:17 Speaker 05: We don't want... you know, we want it to be strong.

02:17:18 Speaker 05: Thank you.

02:17:18 Speaker 05: Through the chair; I run the risk of immediately having an idea like: what would it look like for the structural components to be metal and have a longer lifespan,

02:17:19 Speaker 05: and then leave us in a position of just replacing wooden boards as needed?

02:17:20 Speaker 05: And with... the cost-to-life cycle, assuming that life cycle is the goal.

02:17:20 Speaker 05: Even if you pay more now—pay twice as much now—to have something that lasts three times as long; for me I think those kinds of calculations are worth penciling out, which is beyond my expertise.

02:17:21 Speaker 05: And I'm also curious in terms of partnerships.

02:17:22 Speaker 05: One of the bridges that was replaced up at English Falls was done in connection with local military engineers,

02:17:24 Speaker 05: and I don't know what flag we would need to raise to have them run into the woods again to help.

02:17:26 Speaker 05: But I wonder if it would be possible for staff to connect with the Conservation Authority for some contact information to see if that's a similar kind of project.

02:17:27 Speaker 05: Because certainly, as we heard at the Grey-Sable Board, that partnership was cost-effective and fun, and they really know what they're doing when those construction engineers come in.

02:17:27 Speaker 05: Land; just very quickly: That particular walkway is really quite magical.

02:17:27 Speaker 05: When we first came to this area and discovered it, it was like "Oh my gosh, who knew this was here?"

02:17:28 Speaker 05: Wonderful.

02:17:28 Speaker 05: So many of our wonderful, magical places get destroyed or fall away because of money and other reasons.

02:17:28 Speaker 05: So anything we can do to preserve that magical setting I think is well worth it.

02:17:28 Speaker 05: One question: Has the existing walkway ever been flooded?

02:17:29 Speaker 05: Springtime; I don't think it has.

02:17:30 Speaker 05: I'm quite interested in this from a water engineering kind of perspective.

02:17:30 Speaker 05: You know, you've got this creek roaring down the valley during a flood event—and I don't think all of it gets into the underground concrete culvert that basically runs around the pool.

02:17:30 Speaker 05: And I think during major events, the water actually goes over the parking lot and then cascades back down once you get down into the camping area.

02:17:31 Speaker 05: But the overflow level of the parking lot is initially the same as the boardwalk; but the boardwalk starts to go up slowly.

02:17:31 Speaker 05: And I suspect it has been flooded in the lower parts for very short periods.

02:17:32 Speaker 05: Then: how long does it take to dry out?

02:17:32 Speaker 05: I mean, no matter if it's flooded or not—it's always going to have snow on it.

02:17:32 Speaker 05: In winter time when rains come, it gets wet.

02:17:33 Speaker 05: What we're trying to do with the new design is get it out of the water as much as possible, including what supports the thing;

02:17:33 Speaker 05: because right now it's all supported on these cedar logs down in the creek that are wet 24-7 forever.

02:17:34 Speaker 05: I think personally there might be some things that we could do or the city could do at the inlet of that culvert to minimize the frequency of overflow,

02:17:34 Speaker 05: because it appears that as the creek gets to the inlet of the channel, it is almost like stabilized earth holding it up;

02:17:35 Speaker 05: it could be moved down a bit and give a little more true capacity into that culvert.

02:17:35 Speaker 05: It might help.

02:17:36 Speaker 05: We're getting beyond the scope of my review, but sorry—just one final comment: I like the earlier comment about engaging the Conservation Authority.

02:17:36 Speaker 05: I would presume they have tremendous expertise or access to expertise to help determine what might be the best material and form for a walkway or these bridges—or whatever you call them.

02:17:36 Speaker 05: So that would be my only suggestion.

02:17:37 Speaker 05: But I'm supportive of the proposal as is.

02:17:37 Speaker 05: Thank you.

02:17:38 Speaker 05: Just okay; go ahead, Lloyd.

02:17:39 Speaker 05: Through you, Chair: I was thinking about option number two; I've sort of reneged on that now.

02:17:40 Speaker 05: And option number one is partly because my experience with gravel and trying to pack it down eventually leads to erosion—whether from a heavy rainstorm or something like that—and therefore it's going to just cause more

02:17:40 Speaker 05: problems.

02:17:40 Speaker 05: But I would like to know the difference in price between Sierra wood and Western cedar.

02:17:40 Speaker 05: It seems to me this area is very much like BC; you know, it's very damp, and as John pointed out, in shade.

02:17:41 Speaker 05: And so: Is that the best material?

02:17:42 Speaker 05: Is it worth the extra money for longevity?

02:17:42 Speaker 05: And does there exist longevity?

02:17:43 Speaker 05: I don't know; I'm no expert on wood—I'll tell you right now—but if you Google the internet, you'll see a lot of people promote Western Red Cedar and other things like hemlock as having longer lifespans.

02:17:44 Speaker 05: Because I think Sierra is just commercial-grade spruce treated with that preservative.

02:17:46 Speaker 05: And honestly, I don't know what lasts longest; I've talked to a few people though who have more experience than me, and they sort of say the market's speaking:

02:17:46 Speaker 05: pressure-treated seems to be the sweet spot for economy.

02:17:46 Speaker 05: Okay, so if you can just answer a few questions for me—and I have a few comments—what type of wood is it currently constructed out of?

02:17:46 Speaker 05: As far as I know, it's just local Eastern white cedar; but it's not pressure treated.

02:17:46 Speaker 05: It was milled by like the Mennonite sawmills down Morrisburg Way or whatever—but that's the best I know.

02:17:47 Speaker 05: And I talked to Arnie Clark who was involved more with this trail than I was back in 2003, and that's his recollection.

02:17:47 Speaker 05: But it is twenty-three years ago now; so we're starting to lose not only our hair but our memory—good point!

02:17:48 Speaker 05: With respect to composite wood:

02:17:48 Speaker 05: my experience with it has been that it's very slippery when wet—even though it does have a bit of a rough surface—and it's also very hot if you're in your bare feet,

02:17:48 Speaker 05: just because of the plastic content.

02:17:49 Speaker 05: with respect to the life cycle, the structure, and the AODA compliance, I certainly think that it's very important to have professional oversight on this.

02:17:49 Speaker 05: And for that reason, it's difficult to ask a volunteer group to reconstruct this boardwalk.

02:17:50 Speaker 05: So I certainly appreciate that you're involved in this project and were at the time with the Scenic City Order of Good Cheer.

02:17:50 Speaker 05: We do have a recommendation on the floor for option one, and I'm now looking for a vote on that option.

02:17:52 Speaker 05: All those in favor?

02:17:53 Speaker 05: Okay, that's carried.

02:17:53 Speaker 05: Thank you, Jeff, and we look forward to the completion of this project because it's certainly popular.

02:17:53 Speaker 05: Thank you.

02:17:54 Speaker 05: Go ahead.

02:17:54 Speaker 05: Just with option one, does that include the investigation of what?

02:17:54 Speaker 05: Investigation of the Western Red Cedar.

02:17:55 Speaker 05: That—that's not a motion.

02:17:55 Speaker 05: Can we put it as a motion?

02:17:55 Speaker 05: Is that what we thought people wanted?

02:17:56 Speaker 05: Currently, I don't believe that's included, but I leave it up to the experts to search that out.

02:17:56 Speaker 05: Perhaps Pam and I could talk about that afterward.

02:17:56 Speaker 05: Like she wants us to take this from conceptual design now to final design, something that's tender ready.

02:17:56 Speaker 05: And we could chat about whether we want to consider other alternatives.

02:17:57 Speaker 05: I mean, I mean, we could even do provisional pricing that just says we want the base price based on typical lumber,

02:17:58 Speaker 05: and then you could ask for same output or same project but built in Western Red Cedar, and what you're asking is the additional increase in price to go from A to B. And that's provisional,

02:17:58 Speaker 05: so it'd be kind of an easy thing to do.

02:17:58 Speaker 05: Now, to do the metal component, where you're sort of mixing some metal in with some wood, I think now you're getting into different ways to attach metal to wood.

02:17:58 Speaker 05: It gets a little more complicated, but you could also do the same additive type option during tendering to go to plastic lumber.

02:17:59 Speaker 05: Again, I'm not sure how it would fit together, and an expert might say once you go plastic, you should have more like metal clips and things involved.

02:18:00 Speaker 05: But I would suggest that we just chat with Pam and see which way she wants to go with that.

02:18:01 Speaker 05: Okay, thanks, and I expect that that will take place.

02:18:01 Speaker 05: Also, keep in mind if you are doing those comparators, to also let us know the difference in the longevity of one component versus the other,

02:18:01 Speaker 01: and keep in mind the aesthetics as well in that area.

02:18:02 Speaker 01: Go ahead, Ali.

02:18:02 Speaker 01: I don't know.

02:18:02 Speaker 01: Maybe we're getting to actually putting an amendment out here to say that, like, to explore those options, but also consultation with Graceable.

02:18:02 Speaker 01: What's that?

02:18:03 Speaker 01: Go ahead.

02:18:03 Speaker 01: It's not going to be an amendment.

02:18:03 Speaker 01: Is that my understanding?

02:18:05 Speaker 01: Is it?

02:18:06 Speaker 01: Do we have to go back if it's been moved?

02:18:06 Speaker 01: Okay.

02:18:06 Speaker 01: I bring forward the motion as there is, but with the amendment that alternative options such as Western Cedar be explored, an evaluation of the cost difference in that and pressure treated lumber.

02:18:06 Speaker 01: As well, I'd like to add that consideration from Grey Sauble, like their experience with the other bridges, be brought into that discussion.

02:18:07 Speaker 01: Long-winded.

02:18:08 Speaker 01: I don't know if that's necessary because I think there has already been discussion.

02:18:09 Speaker 01: It's not in the design phase or the tender phase, so that is already under discussion, and they know what we're looking at, I believe.

02:18:09 Speaker 01: Or do you think it needs an amendment, Pam?

02:18:09 Speaker 01: Through you, Chair.

02:18:10 Speaker 01: I think we can explore that difference.

02:18:11 Speaker 01: We'll work with purchasing around the provisional pricing—one with typical pressure treated lumber, and one with other woods—and all of this will be informed by the consultation.

02:18:11 Speaker 01: So we do have some different agencies, and that will inform our final design and thinking.

02:18:11 Speaker 01: We're good.

02:18:12 Speaker 01: Thanks so much.

02:18:13 Speaker 01: Okay, next item is community and business development, and we have with us Rebecca talking about a Community Impact Lab opportunity in collaboration with Georgian College and Grey Sauble.

02:18:15 Speaker 01: Good evening, Chair and Committee.

02:18:15 Speaker 01: I would just also like to welcome Nicole Norris, the Director of Social Innovation from Georgian College.

02:18:15 Speaker 01: Here, hi, Nicole.

02:18:16 Speaker 01: She'll be joining us later for the question period to answer any of the committee's questions around this Community Impact Lab opportunity.

02:18:16 Speaker 01: All right.

02:18:17 Speaker 01: So tonight, I'm really excited to share an update on the progress we've made towards this opportunity to bring a Community Impact Lab to Owen Sound.

02:18:17 Speaker 01: But before we get into discussing the concept of the lab itself, I wanted to begin by talking about rural innovation and why it matters for communities like ours.

02:18:17 Speaker 01: This is sheep.

02:18:17 Speaker 01: New Zealand is full of them.

02:18:17 Speaker 01: And a few weeks ago, I came across a post on social media that was like a light bulb moment for me, really crystallizing why an opportunity like this is important for a city like ours.

02:18:18 Speaker 01: In New Zealand, one of the issues they had was low-quality wool that was a byproduct of their world-renowned sheep and farming industry.

02:18:18 Speaker 01: So the great, high-quality wool would go into the clothes we wear, the socks we wear, into all kinds of materials.

02:18:20 Speaker 01: But then, what do they do with the low-grade wool?

02:18:20 Speaker 01: And they had so much of it, and it was just going to waste.

02:18:20 Speaker 01: It was ending up in landfills or being burnt.

02:18:21 Speaker 01: The thing is, dense, thick wool—the kind that goes really close to the sheepskin—is not great for burning; in fact, it's a little bit fire resistant.

02:18:23 Speaker 01: It is super, super thick.

02:18:25 Speaker 01: It keeps the animals warm in winter.

02:18:26 Speaker 01: And the farmers in New Zealand knew this, and they began to think of other options for using the massive amounts of low-grade wool that they were ending up with each year.

02:18:27 Speaker 01: If we could go to the next slide, please.

02:18:27 Speaker 01: They developed a system in which they use leftover byproduct from their wool-making industries as insulation for homes.

02:18:27 Speaker 01: It's fire resistant.

02:18:27 Speaker 01: It's dense.

02:18:28 Speaker 01: It's thick.

02:18:28 Speaker 01: It's abundant.

02:18:29 Speaker 01: It removes petroleum-based products from their housing industry.

02:18:29 Speaker 01: It creates a secondary industry for something that was previously waste.

02:18:29 Speaker 01: And there was one line that really stuck out to me: "By redirecting waste wool into building materials, farmers created a circular solution: less landfill waste, fewer petroleum-based insulations, healthier homes, and stronger rural economies."

02:18:30 Speaker 01: In a world chasing futuristic materials, this solution came from something ancient and overlooked.

02:18:30 Speaker 01: And I think when we talk about innovation, the first thing that we think of is not necessarily rural communities, but it should be.

02:18:30 Speaker 01: And this is why I was so excited when we toured Georgian College back in September, and we saw the Community Impact Lab and heard about the Community Innovation Networks for the first time.

02:18:31 Speaker 01: We can go to the next slide.

02:18:31 Speaker 01: So in the report before you, you'll see a detailed description of how we got to this moment, what a Community Impact Lab is, why we think it's a good idea,

02:18:31 Speaker 01: why we think that it should be explored at the Citadel campus, how we've developed this initial early partnership with Grey Sauble and Georgian College,

02:18:31 Speaker 01: and also some of the really exciting opportunities that we are exploring to expand to other partners within the community who are all universally excited and enthusiastic about the prospect of building this together.

02:18:32 Speaker 01: So here are the highlights, and at the end I'm going to go into questions on any of the questions you might have about this project.

02:18:32 Speaker 01: So firstly, what are Community Impact Labs?

02:18:33 Speaker 01: These are resources that are designed to foster rural social innovation.

02:18:34 Speaker 01: It contains both a physical and digital ecosystem with tools that are designed to promote collaboration between community members,

02:18:34 Speaker 01: organizations—like leaders and other uncommon innovators in our communities—to bring all of those resources into one spot so that people can find the answers they need and empower our residents to chase those big ideas and

02:18:35 Speaker 01: have the ability to turn them into reality.

02:18:36 Speaker 01: If you could pop to the next slide, there are a few different resources we found.

02:18:36 Speaker 01: One of the things I was really impressed with—so much so that I took a copy of the cards with me when I went there—was the way they guide people through the development and design of

02:18:36 Speaker 01: an idea.

02:18:36 Speaker 01: So when you enter into the space, there is all kinds of signage helping you to move through the journey of developing your idea or collaboration.

02:18:36 Speaker 01: You begin with the Explore phase, which involves identifying and understanding problems or opportunities by gathering insights and empathizing with users.

02:18:37 Speaker 01: And each of these cards are resources that you can take with you into another space or take home.

02:18:37 Speaker 01: They're available online as well, and they have suggested tools for each stage of this process.

02:18:37 Speaker 01: So it's not just giving people answers; it's helping them along a journey to find the answers and explore different tools for finding the answers they need at every step of the way.

02:18:37 Speaker 01: Next is Framing, which involves synthesizing the gathered insights.

02:18:37 Speaker 01: Next is the shift stage, which focuses on generating innovative ideas and exploring new possibilities, and then finally there's the reflect stage, which is about evaluating, refining ideas and solutions based on feedback and insights,

02:18:38 Speaker 01: and ensuring that they align with your needs and project goals.

02:18:38 Speaker 01: So this is an example of what some of these community impact lab spaces look like.

02:18:38 Speaker 01: You can see the design.

02:18:38 Speaker 01: You can see that there's some equipment and some tools, but as a very special favor to me, because unfortunately I can't take you all on tour with me right now.

02:18:38 Speaker 01: Nicole and her colleague Adam have created a very special video tour of the Aurelia Campus Lab, which I will ask Christine to set up right now.

02:18:39 Speaker 01: Hi everyone.

02:18:39 Speaker 01: My name is Nicole Norris.

02:18:39 Speaker 01: I'm the director of social innovation.

02:18:39 Speaker 01: Too bad I couldn't be with you today, but I want to take you on a little bit of a tour of what's called a community impact lab.

02:18:42 Speaker 01: Community impact labs are spaces for radical collaboration, and we're really looking forward to bringing one to Owen Sound at your Sainte-Madeleine campus.

02:18:42 Speaker 01: So let's take a little tour on what is a community impact lab.

02:18:43 Speaker 01: I'm in Impact Lab.

02:18:43 Speaker 01: I am here today in our Arvilia Campus at Georgian College.

02:18:43 Speaker 01: This is one of our first community impact labs we have ever built, and let's show you a little bit about what the features are.

02:18:43 Speaker 01: First of all, you'll notice our community impact lab has its own distinct branding.

02:18:44 Speaker 01: So there's a lot of these labs across the Simcoe Muskoka region.

02:18:44 Speaker 01: We're hoping to build a lot across Owen Sound now.

02:18:44 Speaker 01: But what's unique about them is every lab has a way of working in them.

02:18:45 Speaker 01: So whether you go to a library or a campus, or a chamber of commerce, wherever these labs are set up, you will always have a system of being able to work in these labs.

02:18:45 Speaker 01: So, how community impact labs work?

02:18:45 Speaker 01: This lab can do many amazing things.

02:18:45 Speaker 01: Let's get started by letting you know what's inside.

02:18:47 Speaker 01: These labs have tools for co-design and radical collaboration.

02:18:47 Speaker 01: They have pre-curated kits, so if you're building social enterprises or doing strategic planning, it's available.

02:18:47 Speaker 01: We have resources such as social innovation fellows who help you in facilitating these spaces.

02:18:47 Speaker 01: We can facilitate in these spaces, and the best part about these labs—they all come together to form a community innovation network.

02:18:48 Speaker 01: The labs are based upon you taking a journey, and this journey is about innovation, particularly community-based innovation.

02:18:48 Speaker 01: So we know that when we do entrepreneurship and industry types of innovation, we're probably building a service or a product.

02:18:48 Speaker 01: But what we realize in community, we deal with much more complex issues.

02:18:48 Speaker 01: So what these labs do is they take you through and explore a frame, a shift, a reflect, and a future state.

02:18:48 Speaker 01: And so, what we can do here is a lot of these labs are loaded up with many tools and resources for co-design.

02:18:49 Speaker 01: For example, here's a great canvas.

02:18:50 Speaker 01: This is one of our tools.

02:18:50 Speaker 01: These tools allow you to facilitate dialogue and have conversation.

02:18:50 Speaker 01: You roll these out, and in this room here, you bring together your partners that are talking.

02:18:50 Speaker 01: And in fact, this tool is called an after map.

02:18:50 Speaker 01: So, if you're dealing with a complex issue, it allows you to understand who has the knowledge and who has the power to make your potential innovation work.

02:18:51 Speaker 01: But come with me; so that's one of our rooms.

02:18:51 Speaker 01: All of our labs have spaces and places and whiteboards.

02:18:51 Speaker 01: They also have these really great opportunities to explore the Sustainable Development Goals.

02:18:51 Speaker 01: And the best thing about these lab spaces—they work really well in maker space environments—and are really a campus lab.

02:18:51 Speaker 01: We don't have an official maker space, but we do; we have included things like 3D printers, prototyping areas.

02:18:51 Speaker 01: You can get messy with these spaces, and again, our whiteboards and our tools and resources are set up.

02:18:52 Speaker 01: And if you need help learning how to work in these spaces, don't worry.

02:18:52 Speaker 01: We have a social innovation fellow that can help you do that.

02:18:52 Speaker 01: Again, my name is Nicole Norris, Director of Social Innovation at Georgian College, and we're really looking forward to working with you on setting up a similar co-design space in ONSM.

02:18:52 Speaker 01: Once again, I am deeply grateful to the Director of Social Innovation, Nicole Norris, for giving us that personal tour.

02:18:52 Speaker 01: As you can tell, she was thrilled by the opportunity.

02:18:52 Speaker 01: And if you can go to the next slide, I want to talk about what makes this so deeply exciting right now.

02:18:53 Speaker 01: And the answer is that we are ready for this.

02:18:53 Speaker 01: We have Vision 2050 goals, the seven priorities that were identified by not just our council but by our community,

02:18:54 Speaker 01: and this opportunity builds on all of that engagement and knowledge building effort that happened over the last period of a year, eighteen months, two years.

02:18:54 Speaker 01: This allows us to continue that momentum towards those goals; it's essentially taking the car and pressing the accelerator, accelerator, and saying, "We know where we're going.

02:18:54 Speaker 01: Let's do it."

02:18:54 Speaker 01: The opportunity before us—if you can just go back—the opportunity before us is to collaborate directly with Georgian College on a research-tested roadmap to begin achieving these goals.

02:18:55 Speaker 01: The Future of Belonging project was something that actually born out of a conference that was hosted in Owen Sound four years ago, the Healthy Communities Conference back in 2022.

02:18:55 Speaker 01: At that conference, research was presented; this is all in your report that drew on data modeling of Owen Sound to talk about how to foster innovation in rural environments.

02:18:55 Speaker 01: There was a community in BC, and Owen Sound and Grey County were used as kind of a comparator community.

02:18:55 Speaker 01: Out of that, Georgian College and the YMCA of Simcoe Muskoka decided to collaborate on a project designed to support the development and like activating a new strategic plan for that YMCA.

02:18:57 Speaker 01: This is what came out of it: this Future of Belonging project, these Community Impact Labs; and these labs are in the Chamber of Commerce libraries, YMCAs, the college campuses throughout Simcoe Muskoka,

02:18:57 Speaker 01: and connected and integrated with each other in this community innovation network, a system of sharing resources.

02:18:57 Speaker 01: So you have the physical spaces, you have the digital infrastructure, and this is about sharing resources in a region-wide ecosystem.

02:18:58 Speaker 01: So with the Future of Belonging project, you can see on the screen there's a roadmap going from year one; you're exploring.

02:18:58 Speaker 01: Year two, you begin to experiment.

02:18:59 Speaker 01: Year three, you begin piloting different initiatives and projects and revenue-generating tools that can kind of drive progress towards your goals.

02:18:59 Speaker 01: And year four and onward is scaling those projects.

02:19:00 Speaker 01: If we take advantage of this opportunity now, in February we can partner directly with Georgian College, and support one of our core institutions; as a community partner organization,

02:19:00 Speaker 01: they need a community partner organization to apply for this type of funding from NERC.

02:19:00 Speaker 01: It's the College and Community Social Innovation Fund,

02:19:00 Speaker 01: and it provides up to $120,000 per year for projects of one to three years to colleges conducting multidisciplinary research and collaborating on projects with their community partner organizations.

02:19:00 Speaker 01: The reason why it needs to be us and not a different part;

02:19:00 Speaker 01: and not a different partner organization or a larger regional body is because this means that we can tie the grant and this research project directly to Vision 2050.

02:19:01 Speaker 01: That means that Owen Sound's seven priorities that we've identified will be the guiding light for this research project,

02:19:02 Speaker 01: and we will have like college-level researchers and direct support on how our community can drive progress towards each of those seven priorities.

02:19:02 Speaker 01: It means that we are the ones that are setting the agenda for this research project, and for these labs, and for this innovation network, which is really cool, and I'm very excited by it;

02:19:02 Speaker 01: it's also really special because it demonstrates our leadership as a regional innovation hub, and it also helps us to build safer, connected, and prosperous communities.

02:19:02 Speaker 01: All right, so we can go to the next slide.

02:19:03 Speaker 01: As you can see, in February we have the federal research grant deadline, and then I kind of wanted to talk about some of the partnerships that have come up through this process,

02:19:03 Speaker 01: including the next edition of the Healthy Communities Conference, which will be taking place April 27th and 28th.

02:19:04 Speaker 01: It's happening here in Owen Sound; it's happening here in Owen Sound,

02:19:04 Speaker 04: and the programming team is currently in discussion to advance some programming around the Future of Belonging project and how the 2022 conference sparked this initiative and all of the great things that have happened as

02:19:05 Speaker 04: a result of that initiative.

02:19:06 Speaker 04: The Healthy Communities Conference is hosted by the Grey Bruce Healthy Communities Partnership; which encompasses a broad range of service organizations and health organizations that are doing incredible, award-winning innovation work in our communities.

02:19:06 Speaker 04: Just one example: the Supportive Outreach Service Program, which has been recently praised and recognized in Ottawa.

02:19:06 Speaker 04: It won awards in 2024.

02:19:06 Speaker 04: It was highlighted as part of the CBC broadcast; like this is an example of how our community is piloting initiatives that drive progress and are recognized extensively.

02:19:06 Speaker 04: All of the partners who we've spoken with about this idea and raised this with, just like a preliminary thing, have shown incredible enthusiasm for this.

02:19:07 Speaker 04: The other opportunity is that two weeks after this, if we pursue this opportunity; if we create a prototype lab space that we can draw public feedback on as part of the conference,

02:19:07 Speaker 04: there is also a thing called Canadian Innovation Week where we can put Owen Sound on the map as a regional innovation champion, particularly for rural social innovation and rural innovation overall.

02:19:07 Speaker 04: And as part of this initial funding, I would like to begin planning an official event as part of Canadian Innovation Week to celebrate our local innovators.

02:19:07 Speaker 04: All right; so moving on to the recommendations, I recommend that we allocate up to $5,000 from the strategic plan implementation reserve fund toward the initialization of this project.

02:19:08 Speaker 04: This is a reserve fund of one hundred thousand dollars that was dedicated as part of last year's budget process towards the implementation of early implementation opportunities identified through the Vision Two Thousand and Fifty process,

02:19:08 Speaker 04: and because of the way that this opportunity integrates with the Vision 2050 priorities, I think it's an ideal project to advance through the use of these funds.

02:19:08 Speaker 04: The second recommendation is to direct staff to develop a memorandum of understanding with core partners that would be brought back to committee for review.

02:19:09 Speaker 04: So that would include Grey County, Georgian College, as well as any other community partners that would like to come on board at that level.

02:19:09 Speaker 04: We will also additionally be reaching out to a much broader range of community partners for letters of support to be part of this research grant proposal, which brings me to recommendation number three:

02:19:10 Speaker 04: directing staff to support an application by Georgian College for a research grant from the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council as a partner organization.

02:19:10 Speaker 04: So what this means is that we would have some administrative responsibilities.

02:19:11 Speaker 04: The grant would be administered by Georgian College, and our job is to drum up support, gather letters of support, and participate as an active partner in this research proposal.

02:19:11 Speaker 04: Any questions?

02:19:11 Speaker 04: John, my only question.

02:19:12 Speaker 04: Happy to first, I'll move the recommendation.

02:19:12 Speaker 04: I think it's a no-brainer to support Georgian and, yeah, try to bring a project that can support the Vision Two Thousand and Fifty pieces.

02:19:13 Speaker 04: I'm just curious if we could just lay out really clearly initialization makes me think of what my computer does when it's spinning a wheel.

02:19:13 Speaker 04: What are we funding as initialization with the five thousand dollars specifically?

02:19:14 Speaker 04: And I'm also conscious that we've made Nicole sit on a call for a really long time,

02:19:14 Speaker 04: so if there is anything that I should know that I haven't asked because I'm not familiar enough with how to ask radically collaborative questions, I'd also love to hear from Nicole.

02:19:14 Speaker 04: But five thousand dollars, is it just spinning wheels, or what do we get?

02:19:14 Speaker 04: Through you, Chair, I would be happy to answer that question, and I would absolutely love to have Nicole speak to this opportunity as well.

02:19:15 Speaker 04: In terms of initialization, this is really about developing a more detailed business and operating proposal.

02:19:15 Speaker 04: So this is us going back and working more closely with Grey County and Georgian College to come back to committee in a couple of months with that detailed budget,

02:19:16 Speaker 04: which will also be prepared as part of this research grant proposal process as well.

02:19:16 Speaker 04: So the funds would be used towards different expenses associated with that.

02:19:16 Speaker 04: For example, grant writing.

02:19:17 Speaker 04: For example, like travel costs, so that it's not just coming out of staff budget.

02:19:17 Speaker 04: It's going directly towards this initiative, as well as, for example, you know, doing some of that advance work to set up an event for Innovation Week.

02:19:17 Speaker 04: So it would be covering initial costs.

02:19:17 Speaker 04: It's up to five thousand dollars because we are planning to come back to the committee with that more detailed proposal in the coming months,

02:19:18 Speaker 04: but I will also turn it over to Nicole to share a bit more.

02:19:18 Speaker 04: Just before we do that, Nicole, could you also include in your comments how long Barry has been doing this program and some examples of what the innovation ideas have been?

02:19:19 Speaker 04: That was directed at me.

02:19:19 Speaker 04: Yes, no problem.

02:19:19 Speaker 04: Hi everyone, thank you for the invite this evening to speak to this project.

02:19:19 Speaker 04: So, the Community Innovation Network was launched about two years ago.

02:19:20 Speaker 04: So there was an official press release at that time in 2024.

02:19:20 Speaker 04: Yes, so two years ago, and our labs have been in the community now for about two years, but these labs have actually been on our campuses for closer to five.

02:19:20 Speaker 04: Just to help you with that, and these labs were born out of the need for community to collaborate together in radical collaborations, and as a result of this work and engagement in the community.

02:19:20 Speaker 04: So just to give you kind of background, the YMCA of Simcoe Muskoka provided some funding for us.

02:19:21 Speaker 04: They gave us matching funds, so we were able to turn the money that they gave us into three hundred thousand dollars through funding, and that allowed us to build this infrastructure that we have today.

02:19:22 Speaker 04: So that is about seven labs in the Simcoe Muskoka region.

02:19:22 Speaker 04: We're actually opening another one at the Huntsville Public Library.

02:19:22 Speaker 04: That's going to be our Muskoka campus.

02:19:22 Speaker 04: We're moving that out of our Muskoka campus and moving it to the Huntsville Public Library.

02:19:23 Speaker 04: And as a result of that work, we were able to secure another three hundred and sixty thousand dollars to continue the development and engagement of this innovation network.

02:19:23 Speaker 04: And through that work, we were able to attract the attention of Social Innovation Canada, who is also invested in this.

02:19:23 Speaker 04: So what essentially you're starting here, and what the investment that you're asking for is a very nominal amount to support us setting up a similar approach,

02:19:24 Speaker 04: so that we can take what we've learned in Simcoe Muskoka and adapt it.

02:19:24 Speaker 04: And so, what that does is it covers some nominal costs, and with the funding that we've received to kind of continue to do this work,

02:19:24 Speaker 04: Georgian will also kick in and cover some of those costs.

02:19:25 Speaker 04: So really, what it is, it's sort of this ability to look at what we've done in Simcoe Muskoka.

02:19:25 Speaker 04: And how does it have to be replicated and duplicated in Owen Sound?

02:19:25 Speaker 04: And so essentially, what we're aiming to do with Sydenham Campus is to take our current space,

02:19:25 Speaker 04: which we've been running at—I guess it's the Catalyst Space—and we're willing to sort of put in a baseline lab with some infrastructure to start having conversations about how might we build this similar model in

02:19:25 Speaker 04: the Owen Sound region.

02:19:26 Speaker 04: And that partly is to write a research grant to replicate and duplicate the same process that we did with the YMCA of Simcoe Muskoka, with the beneficiary being the Town of Owen Sound.

02:19:26 Speaker 04: So what we did with the YMCA of Simcoe Muskoka was they came to us and said, how do we remain relevant in our strategic planning?

02:19:26 Speaker 04: And we said we'll help you answer that by going into the community, getting the community to tell us how you remain relevant.

02:19:26 Speaker 04: And as a result of that, the community wanted spaces and places for radical collaboration.

02:19:26 Speaker 04: But that may look very differently in Owen Sound.

02:19:26 Speaker 04: In this case, Owen Sound is coming to us saying, "You know,

02:19:27 Speaker 04: we would like to take our strategic plan and scale it and make it relevant to the constituents of Owen Sound," and build an innovation network as well.

02:19:27 Speaker 04: So what will happen is we've already kind of got that groundwork laid.

02:19:27 Speaker 04: It's taken us three years to sort of do that, so what we're saying is if that nominal investment occurs, we'll be able to hopefully turn that into a larger investment to build the same infrastructure,

02:19:28 Speaker 04: with the beneficiary being you have an early adopter that is already ahead of the game by three years.

02:19:28 Speaker 04: And by the time you've kind of done the same work that we did here in Simcoe Muskoka, we'll actually have the second side to this.

02:19:28 Speaker 04: Like we will have been able to do other work to sort of amplify that.

02:19:28 Speaker 04: So I don't know if that answers your question, but when we did this work, we had a nominal investment by the YMCA of Simcoe Muskoka.

02:19:28 Speaker 04: We were able to match those funds through our channels and make more of it, then build this infrastructure, and that's the similar strategy that we're looking to do here.

02:19:30 Speaker 04: That was long-winded.

02:19:30 Speaker 04: I hope that answered your question.

02:19:30 Speaker 04: Morgan, you have a question?

02:19:30 Speaker 04: Through you, Madam Chair, thank you for the presentation and for being here.

02:19:30 Speaker 04: A couple of questions.

02:19:30 Speaker 04: I looked at the website the other day, and I was looking at it again here: The Future of Belonging.ca.

02:19:31 Speaker 04: So you've had a couple community impact labs to date, and this is just—I would move the recommendation as well.

02:19:31 Speaker 04: I have a question in terms of the Community Impact Labs: affordable housing, seniors and social isolation, climate action, rural community development.

02:19:35 Speaker 04: In Owen Sound, we sometimes have events at Bayshore or things like welcoming Great Brews.

02:19:35 Speaker 04: So you know, we even have our downtown improvement group.

02:19:35 Speaker 04: Are these the kind of discussions?

02:19:35 Speaker 04: Those groups that would move over to a Community Impact Lab—is that kind of where we would go with this and make it a little bit more structured and try to get those radical conversations going?

02:19:35 Speaker 04: Not sure who might be able to answer that.

02:19:36 Speaker 04: I can answer that if you like.

02:19:36 Speaker 04: So, yes and no. The tools and resources come out of the lab.

02:19:37 Speaker 04: One of the things that we have is a couple case studies in this region of people using them.

02:19:37 Speaker 04: One is the YMCA of Simcoe Muskoka; they've taken a lot of these tools and resources and built their own Community Impact Lab inside of their YMCA.

02:19:37 Speaker 04: This is in addition to accessible spaces at Barry Public Library, Annisville Library, and Barry Chamber of Commerce.

02:19:37 Speaker 04: The other piece that we have available to us is actually a mobile lab.

02:19:37 Speaker 04: We have a trailer that we can load up and take anywhere; those tools and resources go with us anywhere.

02:19:37 Speaker 04: The other thing we've done—we used that for a project with Elizabeth Fry engaging at-risk youth in the design of communities.

02:19:37 Speaker 04: The third case study we have is actually the Poverty Reduction Task Force from Family Simcoe: the Family Youth Coalition, also known as the Family and Children's Youth Coalition.

02:19:38 Speaker 04: What they did was check out the tools and resources of the labs and hosted conversations with like sixty to eighty people.

02:19:38 Speaker 04: So what they've done is taken those tools; they came to us saying, "You know, this is what we want to do," and still wanted to participate in sort of the innovation network.

02:19:38 Speaker 04: And so, having a large conversation with eighty organizations, the reverse was: we take the tools out of the labs and bring them to them.

02:19:38 Speaker 04: So it's about spaces, tools, structured process, and being able to build infrastructure to support community doing those innovations.

02:19:38 Speaker 04: To answer your question, yes, those are groups that would use it.

02:19:38 Speaker 04: They don't necessarily have to come into the space; they may want to, but we can also support them where they are if they're having larger conversations in larger groups.

02:19:39 Speaker 04: So these tools have facilitated close to one hundred organizations and five-and-one.

02:19:39 Speaker 04: That's a lot of research work we'd do in your region as much as we're doing regarding how people want to use the tools and resources.

02:19:39 Speaker 04: And just a follow-up question while we have you here: Of all the ideas, conversations happening, innovations happening—how many ideas have been implemented or utilized?

02:19:40 Speaker 04: How has participation been when going public to get interest?

02:19:40 Speaker 04: Yeah.

02:19:40 Speaker 04: So again, this is relatively new like approach.

02:19:41 Speaker 04: It's a relatively new concept of building an ecosystem.

02:19:41 Speaker 04: Right now what's happening is YMCA of Simcoe Muskoka is in what we call pilot phase from their Future Belonging project.

02:19:41 Speaker 04: They're taking all knowledge and resources; they have an internal innovation team building environment of innovation inside organization.

02:19:43 Speaker 04: Stuff coming out goes directly into Y. The third conversation is community engagement pieces.

02:19:43 Speaker 04: On the Future Belonging site, we've been able to generate a lot data and reports.

02:19:43 Speaker 04: That data is currently in knowledge mobilization phase.

02:19:43 Speaker 04: What's starting to happen is going out organizations hosting events saying: "You know this sort of data received from Black community about how they would like you work together with these other organizations."

02:19:44 Speaker 04: So what we're doing now is facilitating inviting those organizations come table instead organizations choosing who working, putting up hand and saying: "Hey, LGBTQ+ community, big priority for them.

02:19:45 Speaker 04: Healthcare around trans; want Chamber, Parks, Y, somebody else to work together."

02:19:45 Speaker 04: And so what we're doing is inviting into spaces or work with tools if open to it.

02:19:45 Speaker 04: To date lot this work starting happen, new funding received will start amplify that.

02:19:46 Speaker 04: But poverty reduction task force taken these tools resources made policy recommendations.

02:19:46 Speaker 04: Elizabeth Fry project secured more research funding; developing programming outreach use for at-risk youth; mobilized partners.

02:19:47 Speaker 04: One reason built innovation network: before Y came on board realized if wanted conversations around homelessness—even Institute of South Georgian Bay work—could only get so far unless place ecosystem actors across systems collaborating,

02:19:47 Speaker 04: could take data that far.

02:19:48 Speaker 04: To date next round research Simcoe Muskoka is how mobilize tangible outcomes three years do that.

02:19:48 Speaker 04: Hopefully answers question some still play interesting see Owen Sound takes tools resources drives into vision 2050.

02:19:49 Speaker 04: That was excellent thank you great hear linking groups together push recommendations get people working together love it.

02:19:49 Speaker 04: I'll go to Lloyd next.

02:19:49 Speaker 04: Fully support project slight vagueness allocating five thousand dollars John asked where money going heard covering costs transportation no detail applied grants two or ten thousand want know detail itemize cost rationale suggest proposal moves forward

02:19:49 Speaker 04: with bit support allocation funds think totally fair happy help support what allocation would be Don't have problem Rebecca absolutely revised request because advised do come back more detailed budget up to five thousand really get

02:19:49 Speaker 04: ball rolling unlock resources support Georgian College hiring grant writer ensure skin game deadline research grant February 25 want make sure enough time core partners develop memorandum develop detailed business proposal before came bigger request.

02:19:49 Speaker 04: Really get ball rolling money coming back detailed proposal developed over coming weeks part grant proposal City Manager sorry through Chair add understanding Rebecca correct me wrong need additional outside resources help operating business planning aspects

02:19:50 Speaker 04: when Rebecca speaks coming information know reach out whether solicitor work or business planning expertise So funds required In addition event planned Innovation Week part five thousand securing location if Sydenham campus maybe Bay wherever costs

02:19:51 Speaker 04: associated Instead again saying "Oh seven hundred fifty host one hundred people" cost wrapped into too emphasize up to aspect may only need fifteen hundred thought five zero safe number don't know approach but least give

02:19:51 Speaker 04: operating budget get business plan going Lance thank you Chair Very supportive initiative think five thousand small amount large potentially powerful investment community comment involving healthcare sector core partner hospital Bright Shores research institute department morphing

02:19:52 Speaker 04: focus rural innovation research hoping included love could be core partner opinion experience healthcare overlooked major drivers area other partners dealing Bruce County local migration partnership looking integration tools tap strategic planning session year opportune time

02:19:52 Speaker 04: maybe one strategic initiatives undertake think great hope proceed thank you Other comments questions motion floor approve recommendation All favor carried Thank much Nicole taking busy day speak pleasure no time taken Very excited everyone Okay

02:19:52 Speaker 04: moving agenda No matters postponed No motions notice previously given Correspondence identifies development update director speaking?

02:19:53 Speaker 04: Thank you regrets behalf CBO under weather tonight another staff member sent home get safely talked lot development year exceptional Construction value over 233 million over million revenue count building permit fees then revenue city received

02:19:53 Speaker 04: partnership adjacent municipalities.

02:19:54 Speaker 04: Five hundred sixty-six new homes lots BCK site SkyDev sites under construction really exciting see Thirty-five affordable housing units Bayshore Terraces hats off Richard Graham team getting project going making great progress down there Smaller developments like Hadera along Ninth Avenue Community Living Project commercial development remains strong New Princess Auto underway grocery store opened Big Amazon distribution center Sabine made notes permit numbers reflect multi-year effort development team working proponents complex files pre-construction construction happy take questions But really great year Thank you and certainly shows how busy department been Next agenda additional business would like few moments thank Lloyd Lewis dedication committee several years bring wealth knowledge particularly tree area neighborhood Northridge experience appreciate contributions Yes certainly You've given me more than I've given you really do appreciate better attended committee participated wish best future doing great job Thank very much John had comments leaving committee drew lots will not here lot different committee not this one want say thanks held seat first three years council appreciate portfolio honor conversations humored times appreciate sad won't hang out Wednesdays glad folks here wanted say thanks goodbye Sorry chair humor miss me still Mondays every other week come hang out chairs Thank

02:19:54 Speaker 04: Five hundred sixty-six new homes lots BCK site SkyDev sites under construction really exciting see Thirty-five affordable housing units Bayshore Terraces hats off Richard Graham team getting project going making great progress down there Smaller developments like Hadera along Ninth Avenue Community Living Project commercial development remains strong New Princess Auto underway grocery store opened Big Amazon distribution center Sabine made notes permit numbers reflect multi-year effort development team working proponents complex files pre-construction construction happy take questions But really great year Thank you and certainly shows how busy department been Next agenda additional business would like few moments thank Lloyd Lewis dedication committee several years bring wealth knowledge particularly tree area neighborhood Northridge experience appreciate contributions Yes certainly You've given me more than I've given you really do appreciate better attended committee participated wish best future doing great job Thank very much John had comments leaving committee drew lots will not here lot different committee not this one want say thanks held seat first three years council appreciate portfolio honor conversations humored times appreciate sad won't hang out Wednesdays glad folks here wanted say thanks goodbye Sorry chair humor miss me still Mondays every other week come hang out chairs Thank