Owen Sound Committee - Corporate Services Meeting Transcript — October 9, 2025

00:00:29 Speaker 01: It is five thirty-one p.m., and I am calling the Corporate Services Committee to order.

00:00:35 Speaker 01: At number two this evening, call for additional business.

00:00:38 Speaker 01: Does anyone have any additional business this evening?

00:00:40 Speaker 01: I will have one item regarding committee vacancies.

00:00:44 Speaker 01: At number three, declarations of interest.

00:00:46 Speaker 01: Does anyone have any?

00:00:49 Speaker 01: Dave.

00:00:57 Speaker 02: This one.

00:00:57 Speaker 02: Okay.

00:00:57 Speaker 02: That's fine.

00:00:58 Speaker 02: Okay, so I work at RBC.

00:01:00 Speaker 02: I manage retirement savings programmememes.

00:01:05 Speaker 02: So financial wellness events for the city.

00:01:08 Speaker 02: City is one of my clients.

00:01:10 Speaker 02: So that report talks.

00:01:11 Speaker 02: Sorry, it's report eight D three or CR twenty-five-one hundred and thirty.

00:01:18 Speaker 02: There is a portion in there that talks about financial wellness or employee wellness, and I just don't want to overstep my bounds by doing anything with that, because I sorry,

00:01:29 Speaker 02: I put on financial wellness events where I have in the past for the city.

00:01:33 Speaker 02: So that's a conflict or not?

00:01:36 Speaker 02: Okay, thank you for that.

00:01:39 Speaker 01: At number four, we have confirmation of minutes.

00:01:41 Speaker 01: These are the minutes of the Corporate Services Committee meeting held on September the eleventh, two thousand and twenty-five.

00:01:46 Speaker 01: Can I have a mover?

00:01:47 Speaker 01: Kelly is moving those minutes.

00:01:49 Speaker 01: Any discussion on those?

00:01:51 Speaker 01: No. I'll call the question.

00:01:52 Speaker 01: All in favour?

00:01:53 Speaker 01: And that carried.

00:01:54 Speaker 01: And that carries.

00:01:56 Speaker 01: At number five, deputations and presentations.

00:01:59 Speaker 01: We have none this evening.

00:02:00 Speaker 01: Public forum.

00:02:01 Speaker 01: I don't see any members in the chamber.

00:02:05 Speaker 01: Number seven, correspondence received for which direction is required.

00:02:08 Speaker 01: We have none.

00:02:09 Speaker 01: So that brings us to number eight, reports of city staff.

00:02:12 Speaker 01: And at eight a one this evening from Communications, we have a report, CM-25-025 from the Communications Advisor, a presentation on external communications strategy project plan.

00:02:28 Speaker 01: Welcome, Carly.

00:02:30 Speaker 01: Thank you, Chair and Committee, and Christina.

00:02:33 Speaker 01: Perfect.

00:02:34 Speaker 01: Thanks.

00:02:37 Speaker 01: So I'm here to present an overview of a project the Communications team has been working on recently that we're pretty excited about.

00:02:43 Speaker 01: Don't know about all of you, but I love a good plan.

00:02:48 Speaker 03: Report CM-25-025 outlines a plan for the external communications strategy.

00:02:54 Speaker 03: So tonight, I'll go over why the strategy matters, the scope of the project, how and when we'll build the strategy, and expected outcomes and values.

00:03:01 Speaker 03: And our ask of committee members tonight.

00:03:05 Speaker 03: It's very important.

00:03:08 Speaker 03: Why does an external communications strategy matter for the city and the community?

00:03:12 Speaker 03: Simply put, because our current state is that we do not have a strategy, a coordinated communications plan, or overarching communication goals.

00:03:21 Speaker 03: We want Communications to support the important work of City staff and Council.

00:03:25 Speaker 03: We want to help avoid frustration, mixed messages, and inconsistencies in information shared with our public.

00:03:31 Speaker 03: We want to also empower staff to know how and when to best communicate about their work or Council decisions.

00:03:37 Speaker 03: And this strategy will help guide and outline both the big picture strategic directions and the practical tactics we'll use moving forward.

00:03:43 Speaker 03: What is a what is an external communications strategy?

00:03:52 Speaker 03: Essentially, it's a playbook for how and when the City communicates with the public.

00:03:57 Speaker 03: So, getting into a bit more of the scope of this, the strategy will focus on corporate Communications of the City as a whole.

00:04:03 Speaker 03: So, core programmememes, services, projects, initiatives that affect residents and taxpayers.

00:04:10 Speaker 03: It will not get into marketing plans per se.

00:04:13 Speaker 03: And for clarity, there, I've just outlined a bit of the difference between communications plans and marketing plans.

00:04:19 Speaker 03: I like to say that corporate comms or Communications are need-to-know pieces of information that are intended to inform and engage residents,

00:04:28 Speaker 03: and marketing plans are more what do we want to show tactics that help drive, say, event attendance or brand recognition.

00:04:36 Speaker 03: This strategy will also not focus on groups that have separate boards, such as Police, Library, and River District.

00:04:45 Speaker 03: The timeline for building this strategy is already in motion.

00:04:51 Speaker 03: Last month, we began analysing our current Communications methods and some data.

00:04:56 Speaker 03: We've also been benchmarking against other municipalities.

00:05:00 Speaker 03: We've surveyed other municipal Communications officers and teams, and I just want to highlight this for a second.

00:05:06 Speaker 03: It's kind of innovative.

00:05:08 Speaker 03: I think a survey like this hasn't been done before, to the best of my knowledge.

00:05:12 Speaker 03: So it's an interesting way to gather data that can help inform best practices in Owen Sound, and give us, you know, a better understanding of capturing the changing landscape of municipal Communications across the province.

00:05:24 Speaker 03: And I think we've had a couple out-of-province responses.

00:05:27 Speaker 03: We've had over twenty different municipalities share what they're currently doing with communication strategies or opportunities they're experiencing.

00:05:36 Speaker 03: Throughout September, we also have interviewed fourteen City of Owen Sound staff from different departments and teams to gather information on how and where Communications affects their roles and identify opportunities.

00:05:48 Speaker 03: This month in October, we're excited to more closely identify key themes, gaps, desired outcomes, potential actions,

00:05:55 Speaker 03: and we will be launching some widespread public engagement to hear feedback from our residents and through our online City platform beginning October seventeenth, and some in-person engagement at the Community Open House on October twentieth.

00:06:10 Speaker 03: Next month will be about drafting the strategy outline and identified goals and steps to reach said goals.

00:06:16 Speaker 03: In December and January, we plan to finalize and share the strategy, and then lastly, we'll put actions into work plans or standard procedures to put the strategy into place.

00:06:28 Speaker 03: So the value of it, much like I addressed earlier in the why, the external communications strategy will provide overarching direction and goals that are mutually beneficial for City staff and officials as well as residents,

00:06:41 Speaker 03: community groups, media outlets, etc. A key part of this work is building public trust, which we know strong and clear Communications can do.

00:06:50 Speaker 03: We want the City of Owen Sound to be the place where people turn to for information about City services.

00:06:56 Speaker 03: We want them to come directly to the source and let them know that they can rely on it with a high degree of confidence.

00:07:03 Speaker 03: The strategy will help improve trust, provide consistency, and save staff time.

00:07:07 Speaker 03: It will support existing policies like the Community Engagement Policy, while streamlining efforts so staff can access and share timely and accurate information.

00:07:17 Speaker 03: We also anticipate it will increase staff confidence and strengthen relationships when responding to public inquiries.

00:07:23 Speaker 03: To measure this, some key results for the strategy will first and foremost include its completion, implemented actions within the first year of launch, and a review in the two thousand and twenty-seven Citizen Satisfaction Survey.

00:07:36 Speaker 03: Citizens' satisfaction survey with our public audiences are asked today.

00:07:42 Speaker 03: We're introducing this project early on, not only to make you aware that it's coming, but because I believe we're all a part of this.

00:07:48 Speaker 03: So I'm asking for the Committee's support as we move forward with developing the City's external communications strategy.

00:07:55 Speaker 03: Specifically, encouraging all members to take part in the upcoming public engagement opportunities.

00:08:00 Speaker 03: There will certainly be some emails about it.

00:08:03 Speaker 03: So that includes completing the survey yourselves, sharing it with your own network.

00:08:06 Speaker 03: helping to promote participation across the community.

00:08:09 Speaker 03: I think your feedbacks and your insights will be incredibly valuable and help ensure the strategy truly reflects the needs and priorities of our residents.

00:08:18 Speaker 03: So, as you saw in the timeline earlier, we'll begin summarising key themes from feedback and gathering more public input beginning at the end of next week.

00:08:26 Speaker 03: So, the online survey will be open from October 17th until November 7th, and I hope you'll each take part.

00:08:32 Speaker 03: And in respect to report CM25-025, I ask that the Corporate Services Committee recommends that City Council receive the report for information purposes.

00:08:41 Speaker 03: Thank you.

00:08:44 Speaker 03: Okay.

00:08:44 Speaker 01: Thank you, Carly.

00:08:45 Speaker 01: Does anyone have any questions or comments on the report?

00:08:50 Speaker 01: No. Travis.

00:08:52 Speaker 04: Thank you, Madam Chair.

00:08:53 Speaker 04: I have no questions.

00:08:54 Speaker 04: I think it's just I'm excited to see this come to fruition.

00:08:57 Speaker 04: It's been something that we've been talking about for that we think would be helpful for the messaging that comes from the corporation, so happy to move the recommendation.

00:09:07 Speaker 04: Okay, so we have Scott.

00:09:09 Speaker 04: Go ahead.

00:09:10 Speaker 04: I guess I have one question.

00:09:12 Speaker 04: The scale of cities is vastly different across the province.

00:09:15 Speaker 05: So when you're working with peers and communicating, the needs of a Georgian Bluffs or a Chatsworth or an Erin Elderly and communicating are vastly different than a Toronto or an Ottawa.

00:09:29 Speaker 05: How do you position communications and the strategy like this in terms of the scale of the community?

00:09:36 Speaker 05: Because I think OHS is kind of in a challenging spot.

00:09:39 Speaker 05: We're small enough to try to reach everyone.

00:09:43 Speaker 05: We're big enough where it's very difficult.

00:09:49 Speaker 05: Thank you, through the chair there.

00:09:51 Speaker 03: I think just to quickly reflect on that, I agree that the scale of a city may affect communications, but I also believe that it's probably still pretty similar in the ways we will communicate.

00:10:11 Speaker 03: Even so, something like comparing a Georgian Bluffs to a City of Toronto, you've got different challenges there, right, with different landscape and demographics.

00:10:22 Speaker 03: But we are also living in a time when communications is very fragmented, so you have to kind of anticipate that, no matter what size your city is,

00:10:31 Speaker 03: and I think that this strategy will kind of look at reaching different people for different things in different ways.

00:10:39 Speaker 03: But I am also, yeah, very interested to see those sort of comparator municipalities that are of a similar size and see what's working well for them or what's not.

00:10:48 Speaker 03: I know we captured a few of those in our municipal communicators survey, so it's kind of an interesting consideration.

00:10:58 Speaker 03: Okay.

00:10:58 Speaker 01: Thank you.

00:11:00 Speaker 01: Yeah, I think this report is important.

00:11:02 Speaker 01: I made the mistake before I came down here today to look at social media and some of the comments on council, and I think that it's a frustration on both sides,

00:11:12 Speaker 01: on the public side and on council side, that we maybe aren't doing the best communicating on why and how we do things, and it leads to misinformation and then frustration on all sides.

00:11:24 Speaker 01: So hopefully this will help in some way.

00:11:28 Speaker 01: And I've noticed a lot of increased communication lately from the communications department on social media channels, and I think it's doing a great job.

00:11:36 Speaker 01: So, congrats on that.

00:11:38 Speaker 01: So, if there's nothing further, I will call the question.

00:11:40 Speaker 01: All in favour?

00:11:42 Speaker 01: And that carries.

00:11:44 Speaker 01: Thank you.

00:11:46 Speaker 01: So, moving on to 8B-1 from Information Technology, we have report CR25-0129 from the Manager of IT regarding electronic signature policy.

00:11:58 Speaker 01: We welcome Mark.

00:11:59 Speaker 06: Thank you very much.

00:12:01 Speaker 06: So, really, I'm here to talk about the new electronic signature policy AF011.

00:12:07 Speaker 06: Really, this policy represents a step forward in modernizing how we work.

00:12:12 Speaker 06: It formalizes the City's use of electronic signatures and helps us streamline approvals, reduce paper uses, and provide faster and more efficient service to residents and staff alike.

00:12:24 Speaker 06: This policy also aligns with best practices across other Ontario municipalities, and is recommended from our 2022 IT needs assessment, which emphasizes adopting modern digital methodologies like e-signatures.

00:12:39 Speaker 06: I'll talk a little bit about the background, which is driving the process forward and the necessity for the policy.

00:12:47 Speaker 06: Really, it's an outcome of COVID-19.

00:12:49 Speaker 06: The COVID-19 in 2020, and an increase move forward to remote work, etc. Also, as a result of that, we IT as well as other groups faced an increasing number of questions from staff:

00:13:03 Speaker 06: when you can't use electronic signatures, and the methodology you actually used.

00:13:08 Speaker 06: It also identified that there was a gap in IT policy framework, so the policy fills that and establishes clear standards for digital signatures.

00:13:20 Speaker 06: The policy also provides clear direction to staff when electronic signatures can be used, based on the standards that are set up within the policy.

00:13:29 Speaker 06: It also defines the approval process when we adopt new tools and software within IT.

00:13:40 Speaker 06: The policy helps lines to support core services and delivery to improve accessibility and efficiency for residents, business, and staff,

00:13:49 Speaker 06: and it advances modernization and digital transformation goals by reducing paper processes and manual other manual processes.

00:13:58 Speaker 06: There's no significant financial impact.

00:14:01 Speaker 06: We already have a number of systems already in place that we use electronic approval process or electronic signatures.

00:14:10 Speaker 06: But any future software is or will be included in any future budgets.

00:14:16 Speaker 06: The policy was developed in consultation and feedback from senior leadership, key stakeholders, to align to corporate processes and workflows.

00:14:25 Speaker 06: Also, City staff from multiple areas participating in reviewing the policy to ensure it was clear, practical, and easy to apply.

00:14:33 Speaker 06: The recommendation of the report is that, in consideration of staff report CR25-0129, respecting the electronic signature policy AF011,

00:14:44 Speaker 06: that Corporate Services Committee recommends that City Council direct staff to bring forward a bylaw to adopt the electronic signature policy AF011 as presented in the report.

00:14:57 Speaker 01: Okay, thank you.

00:14:58 Speaker 01: Does anyone have any questions or comments?

00:15:02 Speaker 01: Kelly, go ahead.

00:15:03 Speaker 01: Just a very, very minor edit.

00:15:07 Speaker 01: There's a on section 14 it refers back to section 14.

00:15:10 Speaker 01: I think it's supposed to refer to section 15.

00:15:11 Speaker 01: That's just.

00:15:13 Speaker 01: It's just a very minor edit, but other than that, I think it's a clear policy.

00:15:18 Speaker 01: It's something that I think makes a lot of sense.

00:15:23 Speaker 07: And my only question I guess I had thinking when I was reading through it was, would there be a specific software platform?

00:15:29 Speaker 07: I know sometimes some institutions like to have you know you can only use this one signature.

00:15:34 Speaker 07: They send it out and receive it back in that same portal type system.

00:15:38 Speaker 07: It sounds like that's not the model that we're going with, and that's totally fine.

00:15:41 Speaker 07: So, yep, no questions, no concerns.

00:15:43 Speaker 07: I think it reads pretty clearly.

00:15:47 Speaker 07: Sorry, you did move it, right?

00:15:49 Speaker 07: Did you move it?

00:15:52 Speaker 01: I did.

00:15:52 Speaker 01: Okay.

00:15:53 Speaker 01: So Kelly is moving the recommendation in the report.

00:15:56 Speaker 01: Anyone have anything further?

00:15:59 Speaker 01: We're good.

00:16:00 Speaker 01: Yeah, I think this totally makes sense.

00:16:01 Speaker 01: Moves us into the twenty-first century.

00:16:02 Speaker 01: So, I will call the question.

00:16:04 Speaker 01: All in favour?

00:16:06 Speaker 01: And that carries.

00:16:07 Speaker 01: Thank you.

00:16:10 Speaker 01: All right.

00:16:11 Speaker 01: At 8:01 C, we have accounting report CR-25-126 from the Director of Corporate Services regarding 2025 financial updates.

00:16:20 Speaker 01: We go to Kate.

00:16:22 Speaker 08: Thank you, Madam Chair.

00:16:23 Speaker 08: A few years ago, we changed our financial update reporting from quarterly to once every four months to more accurately sort of follow the seasonal parts of the year that we go through.

00:16:36 Speaker 08: So this is the second financial report that I've brought this year, and a year-end report will come early in the new year.

00:16:43 Speaker 08: Consistent with the last report, we are still predicting that we are in an overall surplus position at year-end, and the report highlights what some of those major drivers are.

00:16:55 Speaker 08: The winter control costs, still as we know, were significantly over budget this year.

00:17:01 Speaker 08: Fortunately, we had some other positive variances that were able to offset that this year.

00:17:05 Speaker 08: Set that aside this year, and provided that November and December aren't too unseasonal, we should be able to manage the rest or the early winter season for next year with our budget that we have.

00:17:21 Speaker 08: I alluded to this report actually at our most recent council meeting, or maybe it was two meetings ago, actually,

00:17:26 Speaker 08: where we talked about having the surplus related to the WSIB rate rebate reflecting our strong track record in risk mitigation and claim management; that is a one-time rebate,

00:17:39 Speaker 08: and we recommended at the council meeting that we utilise some of those funds in another risk management initiative to address some of the ash trees and increasing our EAB remediation programmememe through to the end

00:17:53 Speaker 08: of the year.

00:17:53 Speaker 08: So that was approved by council, and we will be allocating some of those funds there.

00:17:58 Speaker 08: We have a bit of a surplus in labour relations.

00:18:01 Speaker 08: We normally budget for legal support.

00:18:04 Speaker 08: This has been a calm year as we await the outcome of our fire arbitration, but it is just one year.

00:18:12 Speaker 08: We are looking; we are going to likely resume negotiations with our fire association in 2026.

00:18:18 Speaker 08: We also have unions that are going to be expiring at the end of this year, so we anticipate that we'll have more legal expenses as we move forward with negotiating those contracts next year.

00:18:29 Speaker 08: Penalty and interest on taxes is approximately 30%, which is over what we had budgeted, and that's a revenue to the city.

00:18:37 Speaker 08: But it's not necessarily a good revenue.

00:18:39 Speaker 08: It represents penalties and interest on taxes that are not being paid.

00:18:44 Speaker 08: So, while it is an increase to our overall surplus position, it's one of those indicators that we want to monitor because it does have some ability to communicate the financial health of the community.

00:18:59 Speaker 08: I'm not in any position, or maybe first off, we do have wage-related gapping.

00:19:03 Speaker 08: We anticipate that we'll have some every single year.

00:19:06 Speaker 08: We know that we'll have some turnover.

00:19:08 Speaker 08: However, it has exceeded what we estimated by almost two hundred thousand dollars.

00:19:12 Speaker 08: So that additional wage gapping savings contributes to our surplus this year.

00:19:17 Speaker 08: And I'm not really in a position to comment on where police is trending to for year-end, but I can say that from what I've seen,

00:19:25 Speaker 08: it does indicate that they are likely to have a surplus, driven mostly again through wage gapping on the uniform policing side,

00:19:33 Speaker 08: and I've just put a very loose estimate of around two hundred and fifty thousand dollars here, anticipated from police.

00:19:41 Speaker 08: So all that said, even well this is before the allocation to the tree remediation, I am expecting to have a surplus at year-end, and we'll report back to you.

00:19:55 Speaker 08: And if anything changes, certainly keep you informed.

00:20:01 Speaker 08: Okay.

00:20:01 Speaker 08: Does anyone have any questions or comments for Kate?

00:20:05 Speaker 08: No. Do you want to go ahead, Scott?

00:20:08 Speaker 05: Thanks.

00:20:09 Speaker 05: We used to get reporting on properties and tax arrears that are approaching tax sale, or more disclosure kind of on that.

00:20:19 Speaker 05: Is that is one thing to have penalties and taxes?

00:20:22 Speaker 05: Are we moving towards more properties that are at risk of moving to that next stage?

00:20:30 Speaker 05: I guess I can't necessarily say we have more.

00:20:38 Speaker 08: There are always properties that are in that process,

00:20:41 Speaker 08: and it is always our goal to work into a payment plan or some other option before we take it to the actual registration and tax sale process.

00:20:51 Speaker 08: But there are absolutely properties that are in that;

00:20:55 Speaker 08: they've either received their notices or we're working with them towards implementing payment plans and trying to reduce those taxes before we have to get to the tax sale process.

00:21:08 Speaker 01: That was also going to be my question with the 30%.

00:21:10 Speaker 01: Whether it's new people that are on the roll that aren't paying taxes,

00:21:17 Speaker 01: or whether it's the consistent problem properties that we've been dealing with over time that it's just amassing into more and more taxes owing.

00:21:27 Speaker 01: So, is it just kind of a combination of both?

00:21:28 Speaker 01: I would assume.

00:21:31 Speaker 08: It's a combination of both, and there certainly are some larger taxpayers that account for a larger percentage of that.

00:21:40 Speaker 08: But what else we tend to see is when we have some people just choose to leverage their tax account, and ultimately when they sell those properties, we're collecting the taxes at that point in time.

00:21:55 Speaker 08: So there actually are quite a few properties on the list from one property owner that are likely to all sell this year,

00:22:03 Speaker 08: and so we'll see that balance come down quite a bit once we get those settlements from the lawyers and the balances are paid off.

00:22:14 Speaker 01: Interesting.

00:22:15 Speaker 01: Okay.

00:22:16 Speaker 01: Did someone want to move the recommendation to receive the report?

00:22:21 Speaker 01: Scott has so moved.

00:22:23 Speaker 01: So I will call the question.

00:22:24 Speaker 01: All in favour?

00:22:26 Speaker 01: And that carries.

00:22:27 Speaker 01: Thank you.

00:22:27 Speaker 01: So at 8:01 D, Human Resources, we have HR-25-127 from the Human Resources Specialist regarding joining the Coalition of Inclusive Municipalities.

00:22:44 Speaker 01: And I believe you are Courtney.

00:22:45 Speaker 01: Okay.

00:22:46 Speaker 01: Welcome.

00:22:52 Speaker 01: Hello.

00:22:53 Speaker 01: Perfect.

00:22:54 Speaker 01: Good evening, everyone.

00:22:55 Speaker 01: Before you today is a staff report recommending that Owen Sound join the Coalition of Inclusive Municipalities.

00:23:02 Speaker 09: This step directly supports our strategic plan priority of building a safe city and aligns with our inclusion strategy, which emphasizes meaningful partnerships to advance diversity, equity, and inclusion.

00:23:15 Speaker 09: Membership in the coalition will connect us with over 120 Canadian municipalities working collabouratively to promote social inclusion, address racism and discrimination, and strengthen human rights policies.

00:23:28 Speaker 09: As part of the 2026 work plan, HR will develop a plan of action aligned with the coalition's commitments, starting with policy updates and staff training.

00:23:38 Speaker 09: So, in summary, before you today is a staff report recommending that Owen Sound join the Coalition of Inclusive Municipalities, and I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.

00:23:51 Speaker 09: Does anyone have any questions?

00:23:53 Speaker 09: Go ahead, Kelly.

00:23:55 Speaker 07: Through you, Chair.

00:23:56 Speaker 07: I'm wondering: Do we know if any other neighbouring municipalities are also joining the coalition?

00:24:07 Speaker 09: Sorry, through you, Chair.

00:24:08 Speaker 09: Off the top of my head, I can't remember who they are.

00:24:10 Speaker 09: But we did reach out to about ten different municipalities to talk to them about their partnership with the coalition before making the decision to make the request to join.

00:24:26 Speaker 07: Thank you, and I think it's a...

00:24:29 Speaker 07: I would move the motion.

00:24:30 Speaker 07: I'm supportive of this.

00:24:31 Speaker 07: My only other question is: Is the work of the coalition primarily focused on inclusion in the city as an employer or in the city as a community more broadly?

00:24:48 Speaker 09: Through you, Chair, it's actually both.

00:24:50 Speaker 09: When reading through what they do, it tries to promote inclusion within the city, but also everyone as well.

00:24:59 Speaker 09: Neil, go ahead.

00:25:01 Speaker 10: I see the financial implications are none, and it confuses me a little bit.

00:25:06 Speaker 10: I don't know how this organisation runs without a membership fee or something.

00:25:12 Speaker 10: How do they operate?

00:25:17 Speaker 09: Through you, Chair.

00:25:18 Speaker 09: I'm not sure how they operate, but we have confirmed that there is no annual fees to join them, or support, or to receive the resources.

00:25:28 Speaker 09: Scott.

00:25:30 Speaker 05: Thanks.

00:25:30 Speaker 05: I have one question, and it is on the administrative component or staffing allocation that would go to supporting this.

00:25:40 Speaker 05: In reading it, there's all sorts of great initiatives, and we just had one.

00:25:44 Speaker 05: The city took part in a couple weeks ago the Great Shoreline Cleanup, and it's wonderful the city took part in it.

00:25:53 Speaker 05: There's quite a layer of bureaucracy that exists now putting it on the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence Seaways Initiative, and I evaluate one like that, and I'm like, I question the value from.

00:26:07 Speaker 05: I question the value for money in terms of if that's what they're coming up with as best ideas, is shoreline cleanups, which, frankly, my business outperformed with a Saturday morning cleanup,

00:26:21 Speaker 05: and that's not a slight against city staff.

00:26:23 Speaker 05: It's great we took part.

00:26:25 Speaker 05: That's commenting on an organisation now that's downstream from FCM, or one of these other umbrella organisations.

00:26:35 Speaker 05: I just challenge them to convince me that they're executing well with their mission or with the monies they've been granted.

00:26:49 Speaker 05: So I guess my question is, what are the internal staffing resources?

00:26:53 Speaker 05: The cost is nothing.

00:26:56 Speaker 05: It's a challenge to go out into the community, and I resist trying to tell people how to live, who to like, what to think.

00:27:09 Speaker 05: I think that's a fail, and I hope that that's not like.

00:27:13 Speaker 05: Yes, we want everyone to be included, and it's part of our strategic plan.

00:27:17 Speaker 05: We want to improve our score from a 76 percent to up two points every year, over 80 percent.

00:27:25 Speaker 05: That's easier said than done, and one looks at the climate out there that exists now, and anti-Semitism is a pretty easy one to pick off right off the top.

00:27:34 Speaker 05: Never been worse.

00:27:35 Speaker 05: I've never seen it like this in my lifetime.

00:27:37 Speaker 05: So we've seen all these more investments, but I'm not sure that the result is what we're hoping for yet.

00:27:47 Speaker 05: So just wondering the investment there and what kind of external work staff forecast.

00:27:58 Speaker 09: Through you, Chair.

00:27:58 Speaker 09: I think our initially our plan is to do a lot of policy work.

00:28:01 Speaker 09: So I think the policy work.

00:28:03 Speaker 09: Once we've done the research and connected with other municipalities and developed some policies, that's going to help us decide which initiatives to focus on.

00:28:10 Speaker 09: But year one is just working on policy development and some internal training for staff.

00:28:20 Speaker 07: Through you, Chair, a value I think I could see in a model like this would be when it comes to issues, you know, of gender diversity, religion,

00:28:31 Speaker 07: creed—all of these things—it can be scary for municipalities to be taking a novel approach or trying something new.

00:28:39 Speaker 07: They don't always want to be seen as, you know, maybe they want to be a leader or don't want to stick their neck out.

00:28:43 Speaker 07: It's kind of hard to know where each municipality falls.

00:28:46 Speaker 07: But I think something like this could perhaps give some consistency or cover that you know we're doing something across Ontario that other municipalities are also doing.

00:28:56 Speaker 07: It might offer a little bit of momentum.

00:29:00 Speaker 07: I think, to these initiatives that might not otherwise be there.

00:29:03 Speaker 07: I take your point that it takes work to make something like this happen, and that time is money.

00:29:09 Speaker 07: It's not necessarily something we can easily reflect right on the top of the report.

00:29:13 Speaker 07: But I wouldn't say that improving these things is something we want to do for the score.

00:29:19 Speaker 07: We want to do it because we want our communities to feel welcome and included.

00:29:23 Speaker 07: I personally, you know, know that there are certain communities that have felt that the city is not.

00:29:27 Speaker 07: That have felt like the city is not an ally when they are working to put on pride events, for example,

00:29:33 Speaker 07: and I think that's an area that we could really do better to not just kind of be the letter of the policy, but be a partner in the community and in those events,

00:29:41 Speaker 07: and not always have those groups have to carry such a high burden of planning those events, but actually collabourate as true equal partners because it's good for the city.

00:29:49 Speaker 07: I know this year with Pride is a good example.

00:29:51 Speaker 07: It's an organisation I'm more familiar with.

00:29:54 Speaker 07: It almost didn't happen, and it was the community itself that said we actually really would like Pride to happen this year, and kind of brought it together at the last minute.

00:30:01 Speaker 07: So I think it's something that the city needs to look at being a leader in and not responding.

00:30:09 Speaker 07: Anyone have anything further?

00:30:11 Speaker 07: No. And Kelly, you did move it, correct?

00:30:15 Speaker 01: So I will call the question.

00:30:17 Speaker 01: Then all in favour?

00:30:19 Speaker 01: One, two, three, four, five, six.

00:30:21 Speaker 01: We are carried.

00:30:22 Speaker 01: Then thank you.

00:30:24 Speaker 01: At eight D two, we have report CR twenty-five oh forty-six from the Manager of Human Resources regarding pay and compensation update.

00:30:33 Speaker 01: So we go to Janet.

00:30:40 Speaker 01: Thank you.

00:30:41 Speaker 01: I am Janet Ashfield, the Manager of HR here.

00:30:47 Speaker 11: I am here to briefly present on the report of pay and compensation compliance.

00:30:54 Speaker 11: And this report comes from discussion in the presentation of our market review information last year that we completed in 2024, and we had discussed several different compensation concepts, including pay equity, internal equity, external equity,

00:31:09 Speaker 11: market equity, and then some of the other legislated requirements that we have.

00:31:16 Speaker 11: So, as a provincially regulated employer, we have to comply with various pieces, including the Employment Standards Act, which talks about equal pay for equal work, and the Pay Equity Act, which is gender-based pay parity.

00:31:31 Speaker 11: And so we have those obligations we have to meet,

00:31:35 Speaker 11: which is basically we've done that through job evaluation and establishing pay bands and making sure that our male comparators are being paid consistently with what we pay our female comparators.

00:31:50 Speaker 11: In addition to that, we also look at external equity because in and amongst ourselves, we want to pay our jobs based on the value to the organisation.

00:32:00 Speaker 11: But there are similar jobs across a variety of municipalities out there, and we don't want to be significantly less than what the others are being paid.

00:32:10 Speaker 11: And that is external equity or market equity.

00:32:13 Speaker 11: And we look at we have nine comparators across that the city compares to some locally where we would be in competition for that local labour,

00:32:24 Speaker 11: but also some similar-sized municipalities across the province in terms of size, complexity, and those kinds of things.

00:32:34 Speaker 11: So we do a market survey every five years, based on our salary administration policy, and all of those pieces together really support kind of service excellence by supporting staff,

00:32:48 Speaker 11: making sure that they are compensated fairly, and that they feel that they are.

00:32:55 Speaker 11: Because if they don't feel that it's fair, then they're not going to be as engaged and productive in their roles, and or might impact our turnover rates.

00:33:07 Speaker 01: Okay, thank you.

00:33:08 Speaker 01: Does anyone have any questions or comments for Janet?

00:33:13 Speaker 01: Does anyone want to go ahead, Scott?

00:33:17 Speaker 05: When you're comparing, well, I'm just thinking the union versus non-union.

00:33:26 Speaker 05: Now it's okay.

00:33:31 Speaker 05: I think it probably balances out in the long run.

00:33:33 Speaker 05: Just what I was going to ask with you, but just in terms of the various equity comparators with other municipalities.

00:33:40 Speaker 05: Yeah, no question.

00:33:44 Speaker 05: Go ahead, Dave.

00:33:46 Speaker 02: So, through you, Madam Chair, is this just looking at the pay, or does this include the overall package, like vacation time, you know, car allowances, stuff, stuff like that, right?

00:33:59 Speaker 02: Because, you know, you might not make a decision on where to go work based off of the pay alone.

00:34:03 Speaker 02: There might be other factors.

00:34:08 Speaker 11: Through you, Madam Chair, we look at total compensation, so pay, benefits, paid time off, all of those different things, to capture, to do those comparisons across those comparators.

00:34:23 Speaker 11: Anything further?

00:34:25 Speaker 01: So it's a recommendation to receive the report.

00:34:27 Speaker 01: Does someone want to move that?

00:34:32 Speaker 01: Brock, do you have a question?

00:34:32 Speaker 01: No, maybe.

00:34:36 Speaker 12: I don't even know if I can really actually ask it in open, but I'm going to do it anyway.

00:34:41 Speaker 12: Like so there were probably some rules that we're probably under the average comparator, but were there rules that were also kind of over and above what comparators are paying?

00:35:01 Speaker 12: Through you, Madam Chair, we don't look at it on a rule by rule perspective.

00:35:05 Speaker 11: So the market review, all of that data is basically put into a regression line to give us a pay line to say is our pay line consistent with a pay line out amongst our comparators.

00:35:22 Speaker 11: So because we have our bands, once we get the pay line, sorry, establish the bands, we establish where those bands fall, and that gives us our range for our different levels, pay levels.

00:35:36 Speaker 11: So we don't look at it and say, "Oh, the Treasurer job at Owen Sound is paid 20% higher than everywhere else," because we don't look at it on that kind of basis.

00:35:48 Speaker 11: So we want to do the payline because our internal equity may be different than somebody else's.

00:35:56 Speaker 11: If that makes sense?

00:36:01 Speaker 11: Okay.

00:36:02 Speaker 11: Does someone want to move the recommendation to receive?

00:36:04 Speaker 11: Anyone?

00:36:05 Speaker 11: Anyone?

00:36:07 Speaker 11: Kelly.

00:36:08 Speaker 11: Thank you again.

00:36:09 Speaker 11: Do you have another question?

00:36:11 Speaker 11: Yep, go ahead.

00:36:13 Speaker 07: I'm not sure exactly how to put this into a question, so I'll just maybe say what I'm thinking.

00:36:16 Speaker 07: I'm just trying to understand if there's maybe the thing that's kind of rolling around my mind is we were just talking about the surplus because we have gaps in our employment.

00:36:27 Speaker 07: Is there anything that we've learned about like through this process that can help us perhaps fill those gaps?

00:36:31 Speaker 07: I know that something—those gaps have been there since I've been on the committee.

00:36:34 Speaker 07: We've been...

00:36:35 Speaker 07: I know that they were always there.

00:36:35 Speaker 07: The committee.

00:36:35 Speaker 07: We've...

00:36:35 Speaker 07: I know that there will always be some gaps.

00:36:36 Speaker 07: It's not something that's ever going to completely go away, but they seem to be persistent.

00:36:40 Speaker 07: So I'm just wondering if there's anything that we've learned through this process that might help us with those.

00:36:47 Speaker 11: Through you, Madam Chair.

00:36:48 Speaker 11: Absolutely.

00:36:49 Speaker 11: So we had...

00:36:50 Speaker 11: We did a market review for our QP inside group.

00:36:54 Speaker 11: We did a market review for our QP outside group, and for our non-union group.

00:36:58 Speaker 11: The non-union group is pretty good with those changes.

00:37:04 Speaker 11: The QP inside group, there are some jobs that we think we need to look at a little more closely.

00:37:11 Speaker 11: It's been a number of years.

00:37:13 Speaker 11: We need to look at the system and kind of see where those fall.

00:37:16 Speaker 11: With the outside group, they don't have pay equity because they don't have any female job classes within that bargaining unit.

00:37:24 Speaker 11: So they had job evaluation, but they had one pay rate associated with every job.

00:37:30 Speaker 11: So whether the job went up or not based on job evaluation, it didn't impact pay, and so coming out of bargaining, the parties agreed that we would put in place an actual grid—pay grid.

00:37:43 Speaker 11: So sorry, I need to stop talking with my hands.

00:37:48 Speaker 11: With a minimum, a maximum, and where jobs comparably valued are being paid the same rates.

00:37:57 Speaker 11: So that is a process we are going through.

00:38:00 Speaker 11: We just kind of started it with the union, and we'll do that through 2026 so that we know what it looks like.

00:38:07 Speaker 11: So when they go into bargaining, they actually know, kind of, if they feel that there are significant impacts or differences, that will enable both of us to understand where those lie.

00:38:24 Speaker 11: Neil, go ahead.

00:38:27 Speaker 10: I think I need you to go over the explanation where you said: "You don't compare roles to roles again."

00:38:32 Speaker 10: Why why you don't do it like that?

00:38:34 Speaker 10: Why why you're not comparing the Treasurer role to the Treasurer role, CEO to CEO, office person to office person?

00:38:42 Speaker 10: Can you go over that again?

00:38:43 Speaker 10: I don't...

00:38:43 Speaker 10: I don't understand what you said.

00:38:46 Speaker 11: Certainly, through you, Madam Chair, I think when you do a market review, you're looking for payline information, so they will gather it on a role-by-role basis,

00:38:57 Speaker 11: but they will present it more or less as a payline, because we may say our Treasurer is of the same value as our City Manager.

00:39:08 Speaker 11: Somebody else may see their Treasurer as much lower from an internal perspective.

00:39:13 Speaker 11: So that's why we look at paylines and not individuals.

00:39:16 Speaker 11: It's good information to have, but we don't adjust our paylines because we don't look at it on an individual basis.

00:39:26 Speaker 11: We don't set up a grid on an individual job-by-job basis.

00:39:32 Speaker 11: Years ago, you would have seen special market adjustments for things like IT jobs, because IT jobs were being paid significantly more than kind of what internal equity would present.

00:39:46 Speaker 11: But we have not found significant difficulty as a result of our pay when we put the market adjustments in place.

00:40:02 Speaker 07: Go ahead, Kelly.

00:40:04 Speaker 07: Just to make sure that I... that we all understand when you say "payline," do you mean like a classification level for a certain job?

00:40:10 Speaker 07: Like we might classify the Treasurer, for example, at like a four and a six-point scale, and somebody else classifies it as a two,

00:40:18 Speaker 07: and we're looking at the line of like our two jobs versus our four jobs.

00:40:22 Speaker 07: Is that kind of what you're maybe saying?

00:40:24 Speaker 07: I'm not...

00:40:30 Speaker 11: Through you, Madam Chair, and I'm so sorry because I'd like to draw this out.

00:40:35 Speaker 11: A payline says if you have this many points in your organisation, you're going to get paid this dollar amount, and the line typically goes up like that.

00:40:46 Speaker 11: So when we look at a payline, we look at it based on the point values of the jobs we have in place, which is our internal equity,

00:40:54 Speaker 11: so internal equity gets applied onto the payline that comes out of the external equity.

00:41:02 Speaker 11: Is that resonating?

00:41:05 Speaker 07: I think so.

00:41:05 Speaker 07: So it's kind of like an overall map of all of the jobs in the organisation, hierarchically, essentially, from a financial value perspective.

00:41:18 Speaker 11: Through you, Madam Chair, it's plotting all of those points and then drawing a regression line through it.

00:41:25 Speaker 11: There's the map.

00:41:26 Speaker 11: That's a math comment.

00:41:28 Speaker 11: Okay.

00:41:32 Speaker 11: I...

00:41:34 Speaker 11: I think we've kind of got it.

00:41:35 Speaker 01: So is there a line for internal and a line for external?

00:41:39 Speaker 01: Like so, you're comparing internally and then you have a separate line for external, so that the Treasurer here against the other people in that department, and then you would have the Treasurer versus Treasurers elsewhere.

00:41:53 Speaker 01: Are there two lines?

00:41:56 Speaker 11: Thank you, Madam Chair.

00:41:57 Speaker 11: There's one line that goes like this, and then there are bands that go up across the bottom, so that you go up the band and you can see where that payline,

00:42:10 Speaker 11: where that band hits that payline.

00:42:15 Speaker 01: Next time we're going to request some diagrams attached to your report.

00:42:22 Speaker 01: If we can keep that in mind, okay.

00:42:26 Speaker 01: Kelly, go ahead.

00:42:29 Speaker 07: Is there ever a circumstance where you would want to look at a job-to-job comparator, like, for example, where we have these gaps that we're really struggling to fill?

00:42:38 Speaker 07: Like, I'm just wondering if there's ever a situation where we might need that more directly.

00:42:41 Speaker 11: Through you, Madam Chair.

00:42:46 Speaker 11: Yes, we might, but that becomes... that's an ad hoc, different market adjustment for a particular job versus a comparison across our payline.

00:43:03 Speaker 01: I think the next report might also lend into a little bit of this with the HR metrics.

00:43:07 Speaker 01: So maybe that will clear up some of this.

00:43:09 Speaker 01: But so I believe you have moved this.

00:43:13 Speaker 01: Have we?

00:43:15 Speaker 01: Are you for real?

00:43:17 Speaker 01: Okay, Brock.

00:43:17 Speaker 01: I'm...

00:43:19 Speaker 12: I'm back to, and thank you, Neil, for asking it again because, like, I understand why it's valuable in terms of, um, recruiting and retaining staff, but I'm also just curious, like, how.

00:43:37 Speaker 12: How is it helpful in protecting the corporation from, I don't want to say overpaying, but maybe getting a little bit over its skis with some positions or some areas of the corporation.

00:43:53 Speaker 11: Through you, Madam Chair, I think our payline.

00:43:56 Speaker 11: I have never actually worked anywhere where, when you do a market review, the payline is actually below your current payline, in any way, case, shape, or form.

00:44:06 Speaker 11: There may be again jobs that are being paid more than market in some places.

00:44:12 Speaker 11: It's about the comparison, and are the duties and responsibilities the same equally across?

00:44:19 Speaker 11: Sometimes there's differences, and I would also say that again, it might be of value to this organisation that that job is at a different band than it might be in a different organisation.

00:44:36 Speaker 11: Okay, dare I call the question?

00:44:41 Speaker 11: All those in favour?

00:44:43 Speaker 11: And that carries.

00:44:44 Speaker 01: Thank you, Janet.

00:44:46 Speaker 01: Okay, so HD3 report CR twenty-five one thirty from HR specialist on human resources metrics.

00:44:55 Speaker 01: Welcome, Bethany.

00:44:59 Speaker 01: Good evening, and through you, Madam Chair.

00:45:01 Speaker 13: I'm pleased to present the human resources metrics analysis for 2024.

00:45:06 Speaker 13: This report provides an overview of our key HR trends, challenges, and strategic initiatives supporting our commitment to data-driven decision making and strategic workforce planning.

00:45:17 Speaker 13: A few highlights: we saw a significant increase in retirements last year, emphasizing the importance of advancing our succession planning to maintain continuity of services.

00:45:28 Speaker 13: Through ServiceU Project One C One, we're developing a framework to support knowledge transfer and prepare internal talent for future vacancies.

00:45:38 Speaker 13: Job applications have grown by 186% since 2019, showing strong interest in municipal roles.

00:45:44 Speaker 13: However, we've also seen an increase in declined offers.

00:45:48 Speaker 13: This is a stat that I've only been tracking for the last two years since I've been more in this role, pointing to a gap between expectations of candidates, particularly around compensation, housing availability,

00:46:05 Speaker 13: and work-life balance, and what we currently provide.

00:46:09 Speaker 13: Turnover remains a concern, especially in some of those specialized roles where the candidate pool is small, and delays in finding qualified candidates add strain to the workload of staff.

00:46:20 Speaker 13: We also noted an increase in personal emergency leave usage in early 2024, likely tied to the unusually high number of school and bus cancellations in Grey-Bruce.

00:46:29 Speaker 13: To respond, there have been several strategic initiatives underway.

00:46:33 Speaker 13: We've made strides in streamlining recruitment with the implementation of PICSMA and our onboarding programmememe, which have reduced administrative burden and improved candidate engagement.

00:46:43 Speaker 13: There'll be more reported on that in next year's report, as we only implemented that in April of this year.

00:46:50 Speaker 13: We continue to prioritize employee well-being and engagement.

00:46:53 Speaker 13: We've expanded wellness programmememing, used a new EAP provider, and regular engagement surveys are helping us to respond to ever-evolving workforce needs.

00:47:06 Speaker 13: We're advancing initiatives in DEI, leadership development, and HR analytics.

00:47:11 Speaker 13: These efforts are aligned with our HR strategies' four pillars of talent management, employee development, employee experience, and HR excellence.

00:47:19 Speaker 13: In conclusion, the report shows that while we face challenges in recruitment, retention, and workforce demographics, we're taking a proactive and strategic approach to address them.

00:47:29 Speaker 13: These initiatives will ensure we continue to build a resilient, inclusive, and high-performing workforce that supports the city's service delivery goals.

00:47:38 Speaker 13: Thank you.

00:47:38 Speaker 13: I'm happy to take any questions.

00:47:42 Speaker 13: Thank you.

00:47:42 Speaker 13: Does anyone have any questions?

00:47:45 Speaker 13: Go ahead.

00:47:47 Speaker 13: Thank you, Madam Chair.

00:47:48 Speaker 04: Bethany, thank you for the report.

00:47:49 Speaker 04: I will highlight back on the number of declined offers because I think that does bring in a part of a discussion.

00:47:55 Speaker 04: Is it or are we finding on those?

00:48:00 Speaker 04: If you are having exit interviews with those applicants, is it because of something that the City is not offering, or are they just doing job hopping or job shopping,

00:48:09 Speaker 04: applying wherever the heck they can and finding the best opportunity for them?

00:48:13 Speaker 04: What have you, or are we?

00:48:14 Speaker 04: First of all, I guess are we doing exit application or exit interviews from our applicants?

00:48:18 Speaker 04: And two, if we are, what's been the response?

00:48:23 Speaker 13: Through you, Madam Chair.

00:48:24 Speaker 13: So it's been a mixed response.

00:48:27 Speaker 13: I usually do the interactions with the candidates, so I have been asking those follow-up questions when we're seeing them decline the offers.

00:48:36 Speaker 13: We have a little bit of both.

00:48:38 Speaker 13: Some I think didn't necessarily realize what moving to this area entails.

00:48:46 Speaker 13: We've had a few that talked about housing considerations and not being able to find housing that meets their specific needs.

00:48:57 Speaker 13: Not that we don't have it available.

00:48:59 Speaker 13: That certain candidates weren't able to find what they were looking for to financially make it work for certain positions to come here.

00:49:08 Speaker 13: Others have been super responsive throughout the entire process.

00:49:13 Speaker 13: And then once I've sent the offer, I've never heard anything back.

00:49:16 Speaker 13: It's interesting.

00:49:19 Speaker 13: In some cases, sometimes it comes down to compensation and like you said, job shopping.

00:49:24 Speaker 13: They were applying to multiple ones and found something either closer to where they currently live or that may be able to compensate higher than we are.

00:49:35 Speaker 13: In terms of, like we've talked about with market and pay equity, do we?

00:49:40 Speaker 13: We are fairly regulated in what we are able to offer.

00:49:42 Speaker 13: And if somebody's shopping around between a public and a private sector role,

00:49:47 Speaker 13: a private sector organisation is able to offer more in terms of their total compensation package than we can within the confines of the collective agreements.

00:49:59 Speaker 04: You just got to tell them about the defined benefit pension that you get, and that should win them right over from the private sector.

00:50:04 Speaker 04: That's an easy sale right there.

00:50:08 Speaker 04: So I do think that is something that we obviously...

00:50:11 Speaker 04: I'm glad that you're keeping track of that because I think that does come into play, and falls into line again with what we're doing,

00:50:16 Speaker 04: whether it's in office work or if we're doing remote work for what positions those are coming into.

00:50:23 Speaker 04: Obviously, there's certain roles that need to be in person, but some roles I still do believe that remote work makes sense.

00:50:29 Speaker 04: So if there are ways that that works, that you remove some of those concerns, I think it does bring back to some of those other reports that we just discussed about... you know,

00:50:38 Speaker 04: we could make a perfect situation and provide people millions of dollars, right?

00:50:42 Speaker 04: And if it doesn't fit their lifestyle or their spouse can't get a job here, well then they're not moving here, right?

00:50:48 Speaker 04: So I do think we have to take that into consideration.

00:50:51 Speaker 04: We're talking about all of the other elements.

00:50:53 Speaker 04: Sometimes we could really beef up our internal... or what the compensation or equity is going to be within the corporation.

00:51:00 Speaker 04: But that still might not reflect the other issues that are being faced in the community to really grab that person.

00:51:07 Speaker 04: But I think that's a valuable piece,

00:51:09 Speaker 04: and I hope I commend you for continuing to press those people because it'd be interesting to know how many of those people who never replied just took that back to their employer for the City

00:51:18 Speaker 04: of Owen Sound.

00:51:19 Speaker 04: For the City of Peel, and said, "Look what Owen Sound's going to give me."

00:51:23 Speaker 04: So it'd be interesting to hear that.

00:51:24 Speaker 04: But I did have something else, but I think I've talked long enough.

00:51:32 Speaker 04: Resignations.

00:51:34 Speaker 04: You noted that we have a higher amount of retirement that happened this year, on par, I guess, similar in resignations and terminations.

00:51:44 Speaker 04: Again, in those positions, on the exit interview, has there been a response of why they're leaving the municipality?

00:51:53 Speaker 13: So we have been conducting interviews for this year.

00:51:56 Speaker 13: We don't have as much data for 2024 with the timing of the previous HR team leaving.

00:52:03 Speaker 13: There was a gap in some of those exit interviews.

00:52:06 Speaker 13: Opportunities for advancement are often one that come up in terms of resignations.

00:52:14 Speaker 13: Opportunities closer to home for some people.

00:52:17 Speaker 13: I know it's not too far between the municipalities here, but some neighbouring municipalities are offering a higher rate for a similar role in some of those neighbouring municipalities,

00:52:30 Speaker 13: or more opportunities that we may not have.

00:52:35 Speaker 13: With a smaller organisation, we don't have as many levels as some of the other ones do.

00:52:41 Speaker 13: And if somebody's looking for advancement opportunities, in most cases, they're choosing to go somewhere else.

00:52:50 Speaker 13: Great.

00:52:50 Speaker 13: I appreciate that.

00:52:51 Speaker 13: I'd move the recommendation.

00:52:54 Speaker 01: Okay.

00:52:55 Speaker 01: So we have the recommendation moved.

00:52:57 Speaker 01: The only question I have within this are: Does this include police, fire, library, all the external types?

00:53:05 Speaker 01: Like, or is this like just core city?

00:53:09 Speaker 13: This is just core city, but it does include fire; police and library are not included in this.

00:53:15 Speaker 05: Scott, just quickly, Councillor Dodd mentioned about work at home, which, for many roles, it's great if it works.

00:53:25 Speaker 05: We have certain requirements here where you need to cover as the service desk opposite that in building.

00:53:34 Speaker 05: I just want to be certain that we don't offer work at home at a pace without consideration that we always have to backfill holidays, coffee breaks, lunches.

00:53:52 Speaker 05: I just certainly wouldn't want to see a council be looking at a part-time role down the road because we're facilitating too much work at home,

00:54:01 Speaker 05: and now all of a sudden we have a requirement to cover roles that we walked away from.

00:54:10 Speaker 05: So within our remote and flexible work policy,

00:54:12 Speaker 13: it is up to the discretion of the manager and director which positions and how much time in those positions is allowed to be part of that flexible policy.

00:54:26 Speaker 13: Right now, we have an up to fifty percent, so you can only work up to a maximum of two and a half days a week from home for most cases.

00:54:35 Speaker 13: Again, like I said, it's up to the discretion of the manager or director to approve any of those arrangements that are outside of what we have set in our policy,

00:54:45 Speaker 13: but we would never see within our policy that it would put us in a gap where there would be a disruption of service because of somebody working from home.

00:55:00 Speaker 07: Kelly, go ahead.

00:55:01 Speaker 07: I just want to make sure I wasn't necessarily aware that city staff are manning the desk at various points for public service,

00:55:10 Speaker 07: like I don't know that I would want to be losing out on candidates because we're insisting that they work in person for a certain amount of time,

00:55:17 Speaker 07: so that they can do something that's not the specialized job that we're hiring them for.

00:55:20 Speaker 07: Like if that's a thing that is holding us back from being able to offer more flexibility for work, which might attract better candidates for specialized roles,

00:55:29 Speaker 07: I don't know that it would be a bad idea to be hiring a part-time person to be filling that different function.

00:55:36 Speaker 07: I will admit I work fully remotely, so I see the value of remote work.

00:55:41 Speaker 07: It has allowed me to move back to this community.

00:55:43 Speaker 07: My job is based in Toronto, and I think that I talk about it with my peers.

00:55:49 Speaker 07: And it is something that you know we're looking at retirements that we're going to need to be filling.

00:55:52 Speaker 07: We want people who are going to be in those roles for a period of time, while we're not going to be discriminatory against people who are older.

00:55:59 Speaker 07: That is looking at people in their, you know, midlife years.

00:56:04 Speaker 07: Those people are looking for flexibility.

00:56:05 Speaker 07: I think we all more or less know that.

00:56:08 Speaker 07: So I would be cautious of being too stringent on that.

00:56:12 Speaker 07: That being the thing that holds us back from perhaps a more flexible policy on remote work.

00:56:16 Speaker 07: I think that for the right job, not every job, it can really allow us to attract talent that don't need to move to do it.

00:56:24 Speaker 07: And maybe they're, you know, they come in once a month, whatever makes sense for the role.

00:56:28 Speaker 07: Obviously, travelling two and a half hours a couple times, you know, a couple times a month, a couple times a year, whatever it may be, is much more sustainable than having someone move.

00:56:38 Speaker 07: Although we would love to have them in our community, sometimes we need someone to do the specialized work.

00:56:43 Speaker 07: So, I would be not necessarily opposed to hiring someone to do a specific task if it's eating into our ability to attract talent.

00:56:54 Speaker 07: Anyone else?

00:56:55 Speaker 07: Neil, go ahead.

00:56:58 Speaker 10: Every now and again, people don't enjoy the person who is their manager.

00:57:01 Speaker 10: Does do you capture that stuff, and how does it get shared with whomever?

00:57:09 Speaker 10: Who do you share it with, and how do you share it with them?

00:57:13 Speaker 13: So we do capture all that information, especially during the exit interview process,

00:57:17 Speaker 13: and then that is presented to SLT on a yearly basis to understand trends in what we're seeing and how we can improve our training and management of staff,

00:57:31 Speaker 13: and the relationship between managers and staff moving forward.

00:57:37 Speaker 01: SLT is Senior Leadership Team, just in case you didn't know that.

00:57:42 Speaker 01: And you also do employee engagement surveys on a decently regular basis, so I'm assuming that would get captured during that period of time as well.

00:57:52 Speaker 01: Okay.

00:57:53 Speaker 01: Is there anything else on this topic, Hasan?

00:57:57 Speaker 01: This topic has anyone moved this one?

00:57:59 Speaker 01: Yes, I did.

00:58:00 Speaker 01: You did.

00:58:00 Speaker 01: Thank you.

00:58:01 Speaker 01: I need to write these things down.

00:58:03 Speaker 01: So Travis has moved the report.

00:58:05 Speaker 01: I will call the question.

00:58:07 Speaker 01: All in favour?

00:58:09 Speaker 01: And that carries.

00:58:12 Speaker 01: At eight D four, we have report CR twenty-five-one-one-eight from the manager of human resources regarding an update on safety in council chambers.

00:58:21 Speaker 01: So we go back to Janet.

00:58:26 Speaker 11: Thank you, Madam Chair.

00:58:27 Speaker 11: This comes out of some discussions we had about this time last year regarding staff safety during public meetings.

00:58:35 Speaker 11: We had a number of meetings where there were a number of external people who were crowding some of our staff,

00:58:44 Speaker 11: and the goal was really to identify potential risks and how do we control those risks within council chambers when there are meetings.

00:58:53 Speaker 11: So staff met, and thank you, Brady, the manager of corporate services.

00:58:59 Speaker 11: Clerk staff and HR staff worked together to determine what are those risks that are abundant in council chambers when there are meetings.

00:59:11 Speaker 11: Looked at the likelihood and the impact if any of those risks came to fruition, and determined what controls do we have in place already, and then what controls should we also look to do,

00:59:26 Speaker 11: and through that, there's going to be some barriers that we're going to get once budget is approved to show that visual cue to people that you need to stay on this side,

00:59:40 Speaker 11: and people will be that side.

00:59:42 Speaker 11: During council and committee orientation, we will do some more work and training around how to manage the decorum within council and what you as chair have the ability to do, and some emergency evacuations.

00:59:58 Speaker 11: We did a fire drill last week, last two weeks ago, to again start those emergency evacuations so that people know how to get out, where to get out, and those kinds of things.

01:00:09 Speaker 11: So that's what we're going to do.

01:00:13 Speaker 11: We have the we will continue to review the risk assessments.

01:00:17 Speaker 11: We do it at a minimum every three years or when anything changes.

01:00:20 Speaker 11: So, and as new staff start back in clerks or like Stacy who returned from Matley, we're going to make sure she has a copy of the risk assessment, knows those controls, and what to expect.

01:00:35 Speaker 11: Okay, Travis, go ahead.

01:00:38 Speaker 04: Thank you, Madam Chair.

01:00:38 Speaker 04: I have a question about this barrier system.

01:00:41 Speaker 04: First of all, yeah, first of all, what is it?

01:00:46 Speaker 04: So, Brady, can you just describe what wall you're planning to build here, and were all of members of staff or generally sitting committee council meetings brought in on that discussion about their safety?

01:01:03 Speaker 14: To Councillor Dodd through you, Madam Chair, the barrier system isn't anything too extravagant.

01:01:13 Speaker 14: It is going to be a couple of bollards and some rope, kind of like the queue lines.

01:01:18 Speaker 14: What I'm struggling to find is something that doesn't look god awful.

01:01:21 Speaker 14: And here, it's very.

01:01:23 Speaker 14: But I have found some black stringer wire that we can string across.

01:01:28 Speaker 14: The hazard assessment was completed back in early spring, and I believe that was before we set up the new executive and committee support coordinator position.

01:01:39 Speaker 14: But we did consult with the clerk's office, who run the majority of the meetings, and they seemed fine with the solution.

01:01:46 Speaker 14: They didn't want a wall built or anything like that.

01:01:48 Speaker 14: They were satisfied with a couple bollards and some rope.

01:01:52 Speaker 04: So we're talking like you know the suede, the fancy velvet rope, okay.

01:01:57 Speaker 04: And I guess the main messaging from this, because I do think there's enough animosity in the world right now regarding politicians when you see someone put up barriers between the public and representatives.

01:02:14 Speaker 04: I do think that's a negative.

01:02:16 Speaker 04: I think that sends a negative message to the public of what we're trying to do.

01:02:21 Speaker 04: So as long as it's something that is intended to just visually show this is the space of staff, you know, because that's I'm assuming we're mostly highlighting it in this situation,

01:02:35 Speaker 04: the protection of our city staff that are here on this level of saying this is still my workspace.

01:02:41 Speaker 04: I still am being provided a comfortable amount of space.

01:02:44 Speaker 04: That's so the messaging, instead of bollards and barriers, and maybe about structuring secure staff space or something workspace, so it doesn't sound like when I read that I was like,

01:02:58 Speaker 04: you putting bollards up on the walkways is the trapdoor being released underneath me and I'm going to disappear somewhere.

01:03:05 Speaker 04: I do think we just need to be clear on that messaging of how we're going to bring that in,

01:03:10 Speaker 04: just so that it doesn't seem like council or committee is trying to create a barrier between us versus residents.

01:03:19 Speaker 04: I just think that's a bad messaging.

01:03:21 Speaker 04: So, however we say that, maybe you're not even planning to say it's just going one day.

01:03:26 Speaker 04: It's just going to be up behind the fancy velvety rope.

01:03:29 Speaker 04: But I think if someone asks, I think we should be definitely advising it's about maintaining a safe workspace for our staff, Kelly.

01:03:40 Speaker 04: Okay.

01:03:44 Speaker 04: Could you just maybe show me where you're imagining putting these ropes?

01:03:48 Speaker 07: Because like the staff are at the back, and then and then the clerk staff is up here.

01:03:54 Speaker 07: Like we've got staff kind of in multiple spaces, so you're imagining it kind of up front here.

01:04:29 Speaker 07: And so, is the concern for the clerk staff or the staff that are coming for reporting as well?

01:04:33 Speaker 07: Like, have those staff been considered, yourself among them?

01:04:40 Speaker 14: To the committee member through you, Madam Chair, the risk assessment was focused more on council and the clerk's staff.

01:04:48 Speaker 14: Just because, particularly with the clerks, there's no real avenue for them to escape this area.

01:04:54 Speaker 14: If somebody's causing confrontations on either side of us, there are multiple paths through the space for somebody to excuse themselves from the situation.

01:05:05 Speaker 04: And just for clarity, generally, it's very common in a committee meeting for members of staff to be sitting in the rear of this building.

01:05:14 Speaker 04: When it's council, there's generally not many staff that are providing supplementary reports that are still present.

01:05:22 Speaker 04: It's mostly the senior management team that are here providing those reports.

01:05:25 Speaker 04: So we may have one or two on a here on a one-off, but generally there's not, you know, a number of staff sitting in those back spaces.

01:05:32 Speaker 04: That's generally meant for media.

01:05:34 Speaker 04: Those are just for clarification.

01:05:39 Speaker 04: Anyone else?

01:05:41 Speaker 04: Go ahead.

01:05:42 Speaker 02: Do other council chambers have bollards set up?

01:05:46 Speaker 02: Is that a common thing?

01:05:48 Speaker 02: Like, and what is the?

01:05:50 Speaker 02: If somebody wants to get a council, I think they could jump over the rope.

01:05:53 Speaker 02: So, I'm just curious what the like, what is the point?

01:05:57 Speaker 02: I guess.

01:06:01 Speaker 14: Actually, Member Three, Madam Chair.

01:06:03 Speaker 14: I think when you look at the report and the risk assessment, like I think those physical barriers are kind of like the last resort.

01:06:11 Speaker 14: The risk assessment talked to kind of communication signage about expectations about being in this space, staff being aware of maybe confrontational events.

01:06:21 Speaker 14: So I know in the past we've known that we were going to have a full council chambers,

01:06:25 Speaker 14: so we've had our security staff that we contracted for other facilities come to City Hall for those meetings.

01:06:32 Speaker 14: So we try to do our best to avoid having to install these physical barriers in places like this.

01:06:38 Speaker 14: So this is just once again establishing kind of like that space that says this is staff space, this is the public space, and respect each other's space over the duration of the meeting.

01:06:49 Speaker 14: But it also has to be supported by the training.

01:06:51 Speaker 14: With regards to other council chambers, I've seen it a combination of ways in the prior municipality I worked at.

01:06:59 Speaker 14: The staff sat kind of where I am and had their back immediately to the public, but we had barriers for people accessing council.

01:07:06 Speaker 14: I'm sure the Deputy Mayor could talk about the structure up at the county building because I don't think I've been in the council chamber since renovation.

01:07:13 Speaker 14: But it's there's nothing that's a physical wall or anything that really would stop somebody from wanting to get at you if they needed to.

01:07:25 Speaker 14: Go ahead.

01:07:27 Speaker 04: I. I think probably the most important part of if we are going to go forward with that is the safety of our staff.

01:07:36 Speaker 04: If there is an altercation and our staff are sitting here and there's somewhere that they aren't able to get, or it's a yes, someone could come over a rope,

01:07:44 Speaker 04: but maybe it gives them enough time because if you do think about where our staff are situated right here, if there is a situation, we've got them boxed in here.

01:07:53 Speaker 04: So I do agree that for staff safety, they need we need to come up with a solution.

01:07:56 Speaker 04: They need to.

01:07:56 Speaker 04: We need to come up with a solution.

01:08:00 Speaker 04: Council safety, I think, is whatever.

01:08:05 Speaker 04: More importantly, I think it's ensuring that staff have a safe workplace.

01:08:11 Speaker 04: They weren't elected for this position.

01:08:13 Speaker 04: They're just coming to work.

01:08:14 Speaker 04: How do we create a safe and safe space for them?

01:08:17 Speaker 04: That's the only thing I could think of.

01:08:21 Speaker 05: Scott, well, I have one question regarding the report.

01:08:26 Speaker 05: It's just received for information.

01:08:28 Speaker 05: There's financial implications.

01:08:29 Speaker 05: There's a cost to implementing physical barriers.

01:08:32 Speaker 05: Be approximately thirteen hundred dollars for the required materials.

01:08:35 Speaker 05: Above that, though, it says physical barriers will be implemented when the budget is approved for 2026.

01:08:41 Speaker 05: Often, when you just receive the report for information, that's all you're doing.

01:08:46 Speaker 05: You're not actually undertaking the expenditures unless it's really clearly spelled out.

01:08:52 Speaker 05: So I'm a little confused.

01:08:54 Speaker 05: My gut, I just want to receive this for information with no further action.

01:09:00 Speaker 05: I'm not in favour of expending $1,300 for barriers.

01:09:04 Speaker 05: We could have someone come in that would be required to clerk, who may need accessible means of moving, so perhaps you know a wheelchair,

01:09:19 Speaker 05: and we can't prohibit that with any sort of a fixed physical barrier.

01:09:27 Speaker 05: Again, this came about from one not not one night, a few successive council meetings with one individual, and I hope the individual is astute enough now to they've never been back,

01:09:43 Speaker 05: that we don't see the same problem.

01:09:47 Speaker 05: We shouldn't see the same problem, and staff do have every need and requirement and right to be protected, like Councillor Dodd mentioned.

01:09:57 Speaker 05: When it comes to council, if somebody wants, if they got an axe to grind and they want to get you in the parking lot, then I hope you're fast.

01:10:05 Speaker 05: I don't know.

01:10:06 Speaker 05: People are.

01:10:07 Speaker 05: I mean, times are crazy, and nobody should behave like that.

01:10:11 Speaker 05: But seemingly, it's sign of the times, and hopefully, we go back to a more normalized society.

01:10:18 Speaker 05: But I'm hesitant again.

01:10:23 Speaker 05: Any thought of a barrier between the public and councils is something I'm really in opposition with.

01:10:33 Speaker 05: I just don't I I don't like the idea of a physical barrier between the public and those that they elected.

01:10:43 Speaker 05: We work for them.

01:10:46 Speaker 05: I just.

01:10:48 Speaker 05: And when it comes to one thousand three hundred dollars, we're going to have a terrible budget year.

01:10:51 Speaker 05: I mean, I'm going to look to cut here, there, and everywhere we can to get these numbers down.

01:10:59 Speaker 05: We saw in a report earlier.

01:11:01 Speaker 05: There's some individuals having challenges with paying their taxes.

01:11:06 Speaker 05: I don't think life's going to get any easier.

01:11:08 Speaker 05: We're living with a seventy-one cent dollar that's worse than it was six six months ago.

01:11:12 Speaker 05: That's not good for importing food if you like eating in the winter, and we don't grow fruits and vegetables, so I don't think the impact of people's pockets is about to get any better.

01:11:27 Speaker 05: Mark Carney's got a tough job right now, I would say,

01:11:31 Speaker 05: but we're going to have to do everything we can as a council to remove additional costs that are that would be borne by the taxpayer.

01:11:39 Speaker 05: So this is one here; it's only thirteen hundred, but in a month.

01:11:45 Speaker 05: I'll be looking at thirteen hundred, thirteen thousand, a hundred thirty thousand, one point three million.

01:11:51 Speaker 05: So I'm not in favour of the expenditure of thirteen hundred.

01:11:54 Speaker 05: If it was something that was more nominal, perhaps.

01:11:59 Speaker 05: But hopefully that individual doesn't.

01:12:03 Speaker 05: They got the message, and that we go through years and years of it being a non-issue, like we had until they were attending a few council meetings.

01:12:17 Speaker 01: Okay, I tend to agree with the comments that setting up a barrier between us and the public isn't going to do us any favours, and I'm also not in favour of the $1,300.

01:12:33 Speaker 01: But Neil, what's your thoughts?

01:12:36 Speaker 10: Probably because of my physical stature, I rarely feel in fear whether I'm walking down the street.

01:12:42 Speaker 10: In an underground parking lot, where many others feel some fear that I don't, and so I try not to judge how others are going to feel.

01:12:51 Speaker 10: I'm not the person sitting down there who's not the same size as me, and I just think if they're feeling uncomfortable, I think we should listen.

01:13:00 Speaker 10: And I don't see thirteen hundred dollars to make them feel comfortable as an unreasonable ask for for them.

01:13:08 Speaker 10: So that's those are my thoughts.

01:13:15 Speaker 14: I think this goes to the entire committee here, through you, Madam Chair.

01:13:20 Speaker 14: But to confirm, the need for the hazard assessment was not generated by a request from staff.

01:13:26 Speaker 14: It was generated through the request from council.

01:13:28 Speaker 14: So it's the clerk's office.

01:13:30 Speaker 14: Honestly, when we were doing the hazard assessment, we were not overly concerned.

01:13:36 Speaker 14: That as the Deputy Mayor said, there was a couple events where.

01:13:37 Speaker 14: There was a couple of events where people kind of infringed in the space.

01:13:42 Speaker 14: As I was here about a month ago or so, when somebody stood up and just set a business card on the table.

01:13:47 Speaker 14: So it's just you kind of get your eyes on the situation as you go through.

01:13:52 Speaker 14: But it wasn't staff that requested this.

01:13:55 Speaker 14: This is a byproduct of once the issue is brought to the attention of the senior leadership team and HR that we have to do these hazard assessments and then we go through those full processes

01:14:05 Speaker 14: and the possible activities that could be completed to remediate them.

01:14:09 Speaker 14: So that's what generated tonight's report and the cost associated with it.

01:14:15 Speaker 14: Go ahead.

01:14:16 Speaker 04: Thank you, Madam Chair.

01:14:16 Speaker 04: So just for clarity, this was a motion by Council.

01:14:21 Speaker 04: This was a request by someone on someone from Council.

01:14:25 Speaker 04: I'm assuming.

01:14:26 Speaker 04: I don't believe this was.

01:14:27 Speaker 04: I don't.

01:14:28 Speaker 04: Was this was this a motion of Council, or was this an individual act?

01:14:34 Speaker 11: Through Madam Chair, it was a request by Council through a member of Council, but it was raised.

01:14:42 Speaker 11: It was raised as a request.

01:14:47 Speaker 11: I don't believe it was a motion per se.

01:14:54 Speaker 04: I'm not even going to go that far.

01:14:56 Speaker 04: Your thirteen hundred request.

01:14:58 Speaker 04: I'm assuming it's going to be classified as a capital expenditure.

01:15:01 Speaker 04: You're just going to throw it under operating somewhere.

01:15:06 Speaker 04: Has anyone moved the motion?

01:15:08 Speaker 04: Okay, I'm just going to move the motion that we receive the report as it's written.

01:15:15 Speaker 04: I don't even know the procedural way to do it if we were going to under say no to an operational side.

01:15:22 Speaker 04: I especially for HR, I don't know how you we do that.

01:15:28 Speaker 04: So I'll just move the recommendation as it is, and we can take it from there.

01:15:39 Speaker 04: Rock.

01:15:45 Speaker 12: Yeah, we're kind of in a rocking.

01:15:46 Speaker 12: Well, it's coming.

01:15:47 Speaker 12: The actual spend is coming to budget.

01:15:50 Speaker 12: Yes, that's right.

01:15:53 Speaker 14: To Councillor Hamley through your work or through you, Madam Chair.

01:15:58 Speaker 14: As you can see tonight, we are projecting a surplus this year, and we could move ahead with this project if we needed to, if it was deemed a high importance in the hazard assessment.

01:16:08 Speaker 14: Because it was deemed a kind of a low to medium one, I parked that project only because I've had some significant repairs here at City Hall in this year's operating budget that were unanticipated,

01:16:19 Speaker 14: and I'm anticipating going over budget on that specific line.

01:16:22 Speaker 14: So my intention was to assume that next year goes better, and I would make the purchase early in the new year when we have the new budget.

01:16:28 Speaker 14: So, yeah, so I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm not going to support the motion.

01:16:45 Speaker 14: No offence.

01:16:47 Speaker 12: It was one councillor.

01:16:50 Speaker 12: It was not a motion of council, and that's my feeling on it.

01:17:01 Speaker 15: I'm pretty sure I was the Councillor, and basically, I publicly stated when the person was here that their behaviour was unacceptable, and it was unacceptable, and they've never been back.

01:17:14 Speaker 15: And we do have a need to protect staff, so I appreciate staff.

01:17:20 Speaker 15: Just like Brady said, that's just something that's brought their attention to ensure a safe workplace.

01:17:25 Speaker 15: So I appreciate the report, but I think that might be the background.

01:17:31 Speaker 15: I do remember speaking to it, and the person has been back.

01:17:36 Speaker 15: So I hope they got the message.

01:17:39 Speaker 15: And I'm not in favour of the $1,300 at this time either.

01:17:42 Speaker 15: I think why kick something down the road for further discussion when perhaps you should just look at not approving it now.

01:17:50 Speaker 15: So that's that's my position.

01:17:51 Speaker 15: Travis.

01:17:54 Speaker 04: These are my last comments, and I think again, thinking from a corporate lens, it's very easy for us to say $1,000 is not worth it, and I don't even mean to say it that way.

01:18:09 Speaker 04: But it's very easy for someone to say $1,300 is a figure that someone's just not willing to pay.

01:18:15 Speaker 04: I'll go back from the corporate lens, though, is if there are individuals within, whether I guess through the corporation that feel this is an unsafe workplace and something negative happens,

01:18:26 Speaker 04: and we didn't take preventative measures or follow something from that.

01:18:30 Speaker 04: Does it open the municipality up for liability?

01:18:34 Speaker 04: And if that stems from $1,300, I will give you $1,300.

01:18:40 Speaker 04: But if it stems from the fact that we're ignoring something that has been recognized as a health and safety piece, where does that fall?

01:18:51 Speaker 04: And maybe this discussion—I don't know—but I honestly didn't expect this kind of debate to go on for $1,300.

01:19:00 Speaker 04: I was more concerned about what it looked like.

01:19:02 Speaker 04: It's like going into a new car salesman.

01:19:05 Speaker 04: I thought I was just going to have this new rope, and it's going to look fancy.

01:19:09 Speaker 04: So, but I don't know, and so that's why I will move the recommendation.

01:19:14 Speaker 04: If staff have provided enough insight and thought towards it, if they didn't think that it was an issue that they thought was a priority for health and safety.

01:19:25 Speaker 04: I'm sure they would have provided us with no action.

01:19:28 Speaker 04: The fact that they're writing that they are doing, they're doing their jobs, providing something.

01:19:33 Speaker 04: I do think, from a corporate lens, they are trying to ensure that our staff are still going to be in a safe space.

01:19:42 Speaker 04: And just because there was one instance where it happened, and we hope that never happens again, it could be five years down the road.

01:19:49 Speaker 04: It could be two weeks down the road.

01:19:50 Speaker 04: That's that could happen again, and I know personally, I would feel horrible if one of our members of staff felt intimidated or harassed by something that we didn't control.

01:20:01 Speaker 04: We said no, so I am.

01:20:04 Speaker 04: That's why I move the recommendation as it is, and there we go.

01:20:09 Speaker 04: Thanks.

01:20:11 Speaker 01: Okay, I think when it comes to the liability portion of what you were talking about.

01:20:19 Speaker 01: No velvet rope is going to stop somebody from doing something if they so desire to do that.

01:20:26 Speaker 01: So I can't see how that would be a part of it.

01:20:29 Speaker 01: I think that this is fluid.

01:20:32 Speaker 01: Society changes, situations change, people's perception of safety will change over time, and I think this is something that we always have to have at least in the back of our minds,

01:20:45 Speaker 01: if not in the forefront of what we're doing as a corporation, and if things change or develop, then we revisit.

01:20:55 Speaker 01: But as of right now, we have the recommendation on the floor, so it is to receive for information purposes.

01:21:03 Speaker 01: You have something further, Scott?

01:21:05 Speaker 15: I do,

01:21:06 Speaker 15: and I'll put to bed by making an amendment that the $1,300 not be incorporated as part of the direction to staff at this time or to budget because if we were to defeat the motion,

01:21:18 Speaker 15: then we're not even receiving the report.

01:21:20 Speaker 15: We're going to have to note and file the report, which is something that hasn't happened in my eleven years yet.

01:21:25 Speaker 15: Or you're going to do nothing with it.

01:21:27 Speaker 15: So you've got to recognize it in some way, shape, or fashion.

01:21:30 Speaker 15: So I will make that amendment, and it can go up or down.

01:21:35 Speaker 15: And then at least subsequent to that, then you've got a report to receive.

01:21:40 Speaker 01: Okay, so we have an amendment on the floor to remove the $1,300 from the budget for the Ballard system.

01:21:53 Speaker 01: Does anyone want to comment on that?

01:22:02 Speaker 01: So right now we're voting on the amendment to the recommendation.

01:22:07 Speaker 01: So we are removing the budget, the $1,300 from the budget.

01:22:10 Speaker 01: Dollars from the budget—that's what we are voting on.

01:22:15 Speaker 07: Kelly, are we voting on the report without that sentence included, or are we voting on removing the money from the ability for it to be spent on this purpose?

01:22:28 Speaker 01: We're removing the money from the report.

01:22:35 Speaker 01: Then we would go to the recommendation to receive the report without the, depending on whether it's in or out, then we would do the second motion.

01:22:47 Speaker 01: Does that make sense?

01:22:48 Speaker 01: I think so.

01:22:57 Speaker 10: With the removal of that sentence, does that mean the report doesn't go to council then?

01:23:02 Speaker 01: No. So we're voting on the amendment, which is just strictly the $1,300.

01:23:07 Speaker 01: So we are either going to vote yes or no. So if we vote for the removal of the $1,300, then we will have a subsequent motion to receive the report,

01:23:19 Speaker 01: and then that determines whether or not it goes to council.

01:23:23 Speaker 01: Are we clear?

01:23:25 Speaker 01: Okay.

01:23:27 Speaker 01: I can only speak to the amendment.

01:23:35 Speaker 01: I just want to make sure that.

01:23:38 Speaker 07: So what I'm understanding from all of this is that the expenditure wouldn't necessarily have to go through an explicit approval process because of the amount.

01:23:46 Speaker 07: By removing it in the amendment, I guess I want to retain Brady's discretion to spend it if he feels that this is what is appropriate for staff.

01:23:57 Speaker 07: Because I'm supportive of this being less explicit in the report, so long as that discretion remains for the city staff with the authority to make that expenditure.

01:24:06 Speaker 07: Travis is looking at me like, no, retain that discretion.

01:24:10 Speaker 07: I guess what I'm saying is, if there is enough sentiment within the staff that this would be valuable, then I would tend to agree that I don't think it's an unreasonable expenditure.

01:24:22 Speaker 01: So then, what you would do is you would vote no to this amendment because you want it to go as the original document, including the $1,300,

01:24:31 Speaker 01: is what you would want to do in that case.

01:24:35 Speaker 01: Are we clear?

01:24:36 Speaker 07: Go ahead.

01:24:38 Speaker 07: We are clear on that.

01:24:38 Speaker 07: I just, I'm, I guess, I'm just trying to track it back how this all came to be, and maybe the original request wasn't from the Clerk's staff.

01:24:50 Speaker 07: In the process, once that process was initiated, was the sentiment strong enough that they felt that this would be valuable and make them feel more safe?

01:24:58 Speaker 07: Because if the answer is yes, then I want to support it.

01:25:01 Speaker 07: If the answer is well, we feel like we've got to come up with something, and this is what we came up with.

01:25:04 Speaker 07: But we don't feel strongly about it.

01:25:07 Speaker 07: Then I don't think we should be spending the money.

01:25:12 Speaker 14: To Member Carver, Michael, through you, Madam Chair, when we do the hazard assessment, we identify the hazards and the likelihood and the consequence of them, and then determine solutions based on that.

01:25:25 Speaker 14: Because there was the likelihood that somebody could get into the space, and there could be a low- to medium-consequence risk, we had to identify a solution for that.

01:25:37 Speaker 14: When we had the meeting, we discussed the relocation of the clerks up into the space behind council.

01:25:43 Speaker 14: But from an operations and a cost standpoint, it was not going to really change things or was not going to be feasible for us.

01:25:52 Speaker 14: So, in addition to the policies, the procedures, and the awareness of respecting what occurs in the council chambers, those were all the low-cost solutions.

01:26:05 Speaker 14: Then adding a simple barrier system was kind of one that the group agreed upon would be satisfactory to the staff that work in that space and continue to allocate the appropriate space within the council

01:26:20 Speaker 14: chambers.

01:26:23 Speaker 14: Okay, can I call the question on the amendment?

01:26:27 Speaker 01: So we are just strictly voting on the amendment.

01:26:31 Speaker 01: All in favour?

01:26:34 Speaker 01: So one, two, three.

01:26:39 Speaker 01: How many are there?

01:26:41 Speaker 01: Two, three, four, five, six, seven.

01:26:44 Speaker 01: So, do I vote now or do I vote after we're tied?

01:26:49 Speaker 01: I vote now.

01:26:51 Speaker 01: Or those opposed?

01:26:52 Speaker 01: So I will.

01:26:53 Speaker 01: Those opposed.

01:26:55 Speaker 01: One, two, three.

01:26:57 Speaker 01: So it's tied.

01:27:02 Speaker 01: I am in favour of the amendment.

01:27:07 Speaker 01: So the amendment carries.

01:27:12 Speaker 01: So now we go back to the motion to receive the report for information as amended.

01:27:22 Speaker 01: So now I will call the question.

01:27:24 Speaker 01: All in favour, and that carries.

01:27:29 Speaker 01: Okay, wow, wowzers.

01:27:35 Speaker 01: Okay, so that ends our report section for the evening.

01:27:40 Speaker 01: At number nine, we have no matters postponed.

01:27:43 Speaker 01: At number ten, we have no motions for which notice was previously given.

01:27:48 Speaker 01: At eleven, no correspondence provided for additional information.

01:27:52 Speaker 01: At number twelve, discussion of additional business.

01:27:55 Speaker 01: I do have one item here.

01:27:58 Speaker 01: So the city is looking to fill some vacancies on committees.

01:28:05 Speaker 01: We are accepting applications for public members to sit on various city committees, such as this one here, with terms beginning February 1st.

01:28:13 Speaker 01: Applications are open until November 7th.

01:28:16 Speaker 01: More information is available at owensound.ca/committeevacancies or at the Service Owen Sound counter in City Hall.

01:28:25 Speaker 01: Being a part of a committee is a great way to get involved in the community, provide insights, and gain experience with local government.

01:28:31 Speaker 01: And I hope that our current members will share this opportunity with their networks, and that those listening at home will consider applying.

01:28:38 Speaker 01: I also want to note that we also have a couple others.

01:28:41 Speaker 01: We have the washroom survey that we're looking for people to have feedback on, and we will have the public engagement survey that we're looking for feedback on.

01:28:49 Speaker 01: So, lots of opportunities for people to get involved with.

01:28:54 Speaker 01: And at number thirteen, does anyone have a notice of motion?

01:28:58 Speaker 01: No. Okay.

01:29:02 Speaker 01: So we have no notices of motion, and that brings us to number fourteen.

01:29:07 Speaker 01: It is 6:59 p.m., and I call this meeting adjourned.

01:29:11 Speaker 01: Thank you, everyone.