Owen Sound Committee - Operations Meeting Transcript — October 16, 2025

00:00:09 Speaker 01: Okay, it's 5:30, and this time I'll call the meeting of the Operations Committee to order here in October.

00:00:19 Speaker 01: Member Krohn is not attending this evening.

00:00:22 Speaker 01: We have Councillor Hamley online.

00:00:25 Speaker 01: The rest of us are in the chambers for the meeting.

00:00:28 Speaker 01: So next item of business before us is a call for additional business.

00:00:33 Speaker 01: Are there any items of additional business from committee?

00:00:38 Speaker 01: Not seeing any declarations of interest.

00:00:41 Speaker 01: Are there any parties who have significant interest in the waste management and recycling businesses?

00:00:48 Speaker 01: I'm just leading into the Freestore report this evening.

00:00:52 Speaker 01: I'm not seeing any mention at this time.

00:00:54 Speaker 01: If one should arise, feel free to note it.

00:00:57 Speaker 01: Confirmation of minutes.

00:00:58 Speaker 01: These are the minutes of the September committee meeting, and these were passed by council.

00:01:04 Speaker 01: Recommendations approved without any questions or comments.

00:01:08 Speaker 01: Therein, so just looking for a motion to move receipt.

00:01:17 Speaker 01: Councillor Merton has moved.

00:01:18 Speaker 01: Any questions to those minutes from any committee members?

00:01:21 Speaker 01: Not seeing any.

00:01:22 Speaker 01: All those in favour, receipt.

00:01:25 Speaker 01: Thank you.

00:01:25 Speaker 01: That's approved.

00:01:27 Speaker 01: And this evening we welcome a deputation from Joan Harris regarding transit route to Harrison Park.

00:01:34 Speaker 01: So, welcome, Joan.

00:01:36 Speaker 01: Feel free to come up to the podium.

00:01:38 Speaker 01: And there's a little button there that you've probably been shown already to be able to depress and turn the mic on.

00:01:44 Speaker 01: And it's yours.

00:01:51 Speaker 01: Ah, now we're green.

00:01:52 Speaker 01: Thank you.

00:01:54 Speaker 01: Good afternoon to the chair, members of council, and staff.

00:01:58 Speaker 01: My name is Joan Harris.

00:02:00 Speaker 01: I am chair of the board of the Senior Centre at Harrison Park.

00:02:04 Speaker 01: And accompanying me today are Jean Wilson, Allison Potter, Ann Seymour, Gwen Campbell, also members of the board.

00:02:13 Speaker 02: Thank you for the opportunity to address council and this committee.

00:02:19 Speaker 02: How would you feel if you could no longer enjoy beautiful Harrison Park and its services and its facilities?

00:02:30 Speaker 02: As members of the board of the Senior Centre,

00:02:33 Speaker 02: we are here to promote accessibility into the park for all members of our community to make use of all of the amenities Harrison Park has to offer.

00:02:46 Speaker 02: Let's look at the options that are currently available to enter the park.

00:02:53 Speaker 02: You can drive your own vehicle, if you are able, and if you have a car.

00:02:59 Speaker 02: Taxi, if it is affordable.

00:03:03 Speaker 02: If you qualify for a Handy Van, you can book a ride, or you can take the city bus.

00:03:10 Speaker 02: You then have a possibly fifteen-minute challenging walk on the path into the park.

00:03:18 Speaker 02: Let's think about that bus option for a moment.

00:03:21 Speaker 02: The bus drops off riders at the gate to the park.

00:03:26 Speaker 02: I was recently speaking with one of our members of our board,

00:03:29 Speaker 02: who had observed a father walking in hand with a toddler while pushing a handicapped child in a wheelchair on the walking path into Harrison Park.

00:03:41 Speaker 02: Can you imagine what that would be like for that parent?

00:03:46 Speaker 02: From my personal experience, my forty-nine-year-old son has a disability.

00:03:50 Speaker 02: He too could not make that walk into the centre of the park.

00:03:54 Speaker 02: There are many, many others in our community who could not walk that far as well.

00:04:03 Speaker 02: So let us consider some of the other members of our community: employees at the restaurant,

00:04:10 Speaker 02: people who are dutifully going to work throughout the year have the option of walking the path if it is clear, or if it is not clear in the winter,

00:04:21 Speaker 02: their option is to make their way along the main road.

00:04:25 Speaker 02: That is not a safe option for them.

00:04:30 Speaker 02: The road is narrow and there are no sidewalks.

00:04:35 Speaker 02: Each year, volunteers at the Senior Centre provide free tax filing services for low-income citizens, many of whom do not have their own vehicle, nor could they afford a taxi to and from the Senior Centre.

00:04:52 Speaker 02: They have to rely on friends or relatives to bring them to have their taxes filed, or if they are able, walk the path in March or April to the Senior Centre.

00:05:06 Speaker 02: Each week at the Senior Centre, our volunteers provide programmememes at a cost of only two dollars for seniors 55 and over.

00:05:14 Speaker 02: There is no monthly or annual membership required to participate.

00:05:19 Speaker 02: We offer sing-along card games of Pepper and Wizard, Crokinole.

00:05:23 Speaker 02: We also offer the building to be rented, and currently we have a weekly rental that has been using the centre for five years.

00:05:31 Speaker 02: Not only are there games to enjoy and rental space available, but as previously mentioned, the volunteers provide the free tax filing service for low-income people in our community.

00:05:43 Speaker 02: The Senior Centre has operated in Harrison Park by volunteers for thirty years.

00:05:50 Speaker 02: The Senior Centre is a welcoming, low-cost place for people to socialize with others.

00:05:56 Speaker 02: For two weeks each summer, the building is utilised as part of the city's children's summer camp.

00:06:02 Speaker 02: We are proud of our past, and we look forward to being even bigger and better in the future.

00:06:09 Speaker 02: The demographic data on the OSHaRE website shows that on the Owen Sound website shows that we have more than 90 seniors 55 and over in our city.

00:06:17 Speaker 02: So how do we at the Senior Centre become bigger and better?

00:06:21 Speaker 02: We are currently advertising to expand our programmememes and adding to the number of volunteers.

00:06:26 Speaker 02: We have rental spaces available as well.

00:06:29 Speaker 02: How does the City of Owen Sound improve accessibility to Harrison Park for people of all ages?

00:06:37 Speaker 02: There is one major limitation that prevents so many people from enjoying the services, opportunities, and programmememes available at the beautiful park, and that is the lack of bus service into the park.

00:06:51 Speaker 02: We are asking you to revise the bus route so that the city bus comes into the park and drops off close to the restaurant and playground.

00:07:02 Speaker 02: There are so many amenities in the beautiful park that would benefit from enabling better, safer access into the park: the restaurant, pool, skating rink, tobogganing hill, playground, paddle boats, tennis, pickleball courts, camping,

00:07:17 Speaker 02: and many walking paths become more accessible.

00:07:21 Speaker 02: I challenge you to walk from the gate with children in snow suits and boots making their way on the path to the skating rink or the toboggan hill.

00:07:33 Speaker 02: It is not safe or feasible to walk on the road.

00:07:38 Speaker 02: It is not easy to facilitate change.

00:07:41 Speaker 02: However, we are asking you to direct staff to do the right thing for this community and improve accessibility into Harrison Park through a transit route change.

00:07:51 Speaker 02: Thank you.

00:07:54 Speaker 02: Okay.

00:07:54 Speaker 02: Thanks, Joan.

00:07:56 Speaker 02: Are there any questions from committee members, Councillor Merton?

00:08:02 Speaker 03: Through you, Chair.

00:08:04 Speaker 03: Thank you for your presentation and the information you shared.

00:08:07 Speaker 03: I do have a question, and I maybe will direct this to Heidi, although I'm not sure if Lara should be the one.

00:08:17 Speaker 03: So I'll let you share this.

00:08:20 Speaker 03: We recognize we're moving towards a transportation master plan review coming up, but it's not right away.

00:08:30 Speaker 03: It's maybe a year or so down the road.

00:08:36 Speaker 03: What could be the options to do a temporary trial as a pilot, to see cost-wise what this would be, route-wise what impact this would be on the timing of the bus routes,

00:08:52 Speaker 03: and to measure the ridership?

00:08:55 Speaker 03: I know that we get regular stats about ridership.

00:09:01 Speaker 03: Would this be a consideration that we could move forward with, or have a report back to this committee with that additional information?

00:09:12 Speaker 04: Through you, Member Merton, with the transit study that was completed a couple of years ago, one of the suggestions was that there'd be a pickup at Harrison Park,

00:09:29 Speaker 04: but the recommendation in the transit study was not to have a fixed route into the park.

00:09:35 Speaker 04: That is an additional two kilometres, so roughly twenty percent increase in distance and travel time.

00:09:42 Speaker 04: So we would need to consider such things as maybe extending the bus routes to forty-five minutes instead of the thirty-five minutes that we currently have.

00:09:53 Speaker 04: And in the transit study, it did make a suggestion that one of the options could be a seasonal shuttle, so that would be between May 24 and the Labour Day weekend.

00:10:04 Speaker 04: But the costs were anywhere between twenty-five and fifty thousand, depending on the span and the frequency.

00:10:14 Speaker 04: As for ridership numbers, so last year we had about 208 riders at the location that's right in front of Harris.

00:10:27 Speaker 04: That's right in front of Harrison Park, the northeast corner of the entrance.

00:10:32 Speaker 04: It's 200 for the fixed routes, but we don't know if they were actually going into the park or if they were just living in the homes that surround the park.

00:10:42 Speaker 04: I was able to get the mobility transit as well that are going into the park.

00:10:47 Speaker 04: So we had about 88 riders within the last year, from October of 2024 until September of 2025,

00:10:58 Speaker 04: and we do encourage riders if they do have any mobility issues that they can apply for the mobility bus.

00:11:07 Speaker 04: We have simplified the application a little bit, and you can get it approved by healthcare professionals that can approve it if there are any mobility issues.

00:11:21 Speaker 04: So that is one option.

00:11:25 Speaker 04: Thank you.

00:11:29 Speaker 04: Any all good, Councillor?

00:11:31 Speaker 01: Okay.

00:11:32 Speaker 01: Okay.

00:11:33 Speaker 01: Any other questions from any Councillors?

00:11:37 Speaker 01: Not seeing any.

00:11:38 Speaker 01: Did you have any follow-up?

00:11:43 Speaker 03: We know how many riders through you, Chair.

00:11:46 Speaker 03: How many riders come to Harrison Park?

00:11:49 Speaker 03: But what I'm hearing are there some that don't come.

00:11:54 Speaker 03: The assumption is because they can't get to the facilities that they would like to go to.

00:12:01 Speaker 03: So the accessibility issue for access to public spaces obviously is a concern.

00:12:10 Speaker 03: A question back to the Senior Centre: Sometimes it is about money, and sometimes it is about service.

00:12:19 Speaker 03: Have there been any thoughts or discussions about how collabouratively a partnership to offset expenditures or to assist the City?

00:12:29 Speaker 03: Have there ever been any conversations where we're all about partnering as much as we can?

00:12:35 Speaker 03: I think I have to push this button.

00:12:37 Speaker 03: Yep, it works.

00:12:38 Speaker 02: Thank you for your question.

00:12:41 Speaker 02: No, to this point, we have not at the Senior Centre considered those options.

00:12:46 Speaker 02: However, this is a much broader issue.

00:12:48 Speaker 02: When I think of the young parents.

00:12:49 Speaker 02: When I think of the young parent with toddlers, snowsuits, boots, I have even offered my own grandchildren if somebody wanted to walk in January down the road from the gate to the restaurant.

00:13:02 Speaker 02: There are so many different areas that would benefit.

00:13:05 Speaker 02: You know, let's think about the restaurant, which is you know, it is a City-owned property.

00:13:09 Speaker 02: There's a beautiful skating rink there, but for a little person, you know, I did the walk earlier this year, part of the Kidney Walk.

00:13:17 Speaker 02: I wanted to walk it myself and see what that was like.

00:13:20 Speaker 02: So it's not we're here because we represent the Senior Centre and we would like to see more seniors be able to get to us more easily.

00:13:28 Speaker 02: However, it's a much bigger picture for accessibility for all of the citizens.

00:13:34 Speaker 02: We have an absolute gem in Harrison Park.

00:13:37 Speaker 02: I have come to appreciate all of the amenities and the beauty there.

00:13:41 Speaker 02: I just think we need to do better for all of our community.

00:13:48 Speaker 02: Okay, thank you, Councillor Kukreja, and then Member Indo.

00:13:53 Speaker 02: Just a quick question to you, Chair, to Heidi.

00:13:57 Speaker 02: So the numbers that you mentioned—they were from last year's ridership.

00:14:04 Speaker 04: Through you, Mr. Chair.

00:14:05 Speaker 04: No, these are from October of 2024 until September of 2025.

00:14:13 Speaker 05: And then in the future, like we see developments happen.

00:14:15 Speaker 05: Like we see developments happening on various corners of the City, so would that be a consideration again in the future to revisit this the Harrison Park route or no?

00:14:31 Speaker 04: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

00:14:32 Speaker 04: Of course, we're always looking at different ways that we can improve the service, and in the transit study, it does specify that if we were looking for that,

00:14:43 Speaker 04: that we should maybe consider some type of on-demand type of service, or as I said, some kind of shuttle.

00:14:52 Speaker 04: So these are things that we should be looking at within the next year or two, possibly, because our contract will be coming up soon with our current transit contractor.

00:15:09 Speaker 04: Memorandum.

00:15:12 Speaker 06: Member Indo, just a question through you, Chair.

00:15:18 Speaker 06: Have you ever polled any of your members, like seniors?

00:15:23 Speaker 06: I know the young ones probably.

00:15:24 Speaker 06: Just wondering if you have any idea on the numbers at all.

00:15:40 Speaker 02: Ah, there we are.

00:15:42 Speaker 02: To pull the members who are already coming to the Senior Centre wouldn't tell us how many people are not coming.

00:15:49 Speaker 02: We do keep stats on how many people do come every week, and it is a wonderful place for seniors to be.

00:15:56 Speaker 02: So we do have numbers about who comes.

00:15:59 Speaker 02: What we can't get our hands on is those who aren't able to come.

00:16:04 Speaker 02: And during tax filing season, we have a lot of people coming for the free service to get their taxes filed, and you see how they have to.

00:16:14 Speaker 02: You know, my friend is bringing me.

00:16:16 Speaker 02: I can only come on this day.

00:16:18 Speaker 02: It's difficult, and March may not be our best month in town.

00:16:25 Speaker 02: Okay, Councillor Merton.

00:16:27 Speaker 02: Through you, Chair.

00:16:31 Speaker 03: I would find it very helpful to receive information back from staff about proposed costing and options, so we can explore this further.

00:16:41 Speaker 03: We are entering into a totally new budget process.

00:16:48 Speaker 03: It's now the Mayor's budget, but we as Councillors get a chance to sit and have conversations about what we'd like to see.

00:16:58 Speaker 03: Having the information allows us to go forward with the issues and concerns, and I'm willing to make that motion if that's required, Chair.

00:17:09 Speaker 03: I would look to you for direction on that.

00:17:15 Speaker 07: Well, you can certainly introduce any motion you wish.

00:17:21 Speaker 07: This is an item we'd love to have every service expansion across the City.

00:17:25 Speaker 07: We could.

00:17:26 Speaker 07: We had when we did the transit study, we had individuals say that we should run the buses to the Sunset Strip, and service those businesses that are outside of downtown.

00:17:34 Speaker 07: That are outside of Owen Sound, and those comments all were gathered and included into that transit study.

00:17:41 Speaker 07: So it gathered a multitude of feedback.

00:17:44 Speaker 07: The end of the day, this is the service level.

00:17:46 Speaker 07: I rode that crosstown bus.

00:17:48 Speaker 07: We've actually improved the route in the last half a year to now accommodate the hospital.

00:17:55 Speaker 07: That's working out quite well because there was under capacity on that crosstown bus, but the East Bayshore was over capacity and at times standing room on that route.

00:18:07 Speaker 07: So this has improved it by removing the hospital stop and kind of offloading it to the crosstown.

00:18:14 Speaker 07: To do such an endeavor to move it into Harrison Park obliterates that crosstown ride schedule.

00:18:22 Speaker 07: I mean, you have no other option other than drastically cut service levels in other ways.

00:18:28 Speaker 07: So like the manager spoke, it's going to be 45-minute routes or route alternatives to accommodate such a change in route.

00:18:40 Speaker 07: So that's something I certainly wouldn't support.

00:18:43 Speaker 07: There's significant cost implications to it.

00:18:46 Speaker 07: So I mean, unless you can come up with different areas where you're going to cut funding, then this is a new level of service enhancement that's going to be funded by the general taxpayer,

00:18:59 Speaker 07: and this is a big one.

00:19:00 Speaker 07: I mean, we could go to the draft.

00:19:00 Speaker 07: I mean, we could go to the director already, and it might be about $1.3 million dollars annually that we commit to public transit.

00:19:08 Speaker 07: We don't have the Director of Community Services here right now, but a few years ago we paved that fitness trail,

00:19:17 Speaker 07: and we now maintain it to a much higher standard through the winter than it used to be.

00:19:21 Speaker 07: It used to be a goat path through there, but in paving it now, the Parks Department they apply sand and salt treatment through the winter, so it is better.

00:19:33 Speaker 07: It might not be perfect, but we are trying to work as best we can with a fixed level of dollars to spend across the City.

00:19:41 Speaker 07: So you can make a motion, and ask for reporting back.

00:19:47 Speaker 07: But at the end of the day, this is a service level change that I think the City is going to struggle to accommodate.

00:19:53 Speaker 07: And it's a wonderful presentation, but hey, I'm someone that put on my snow boots and snow clothes,

00:20:02 Speaker 07: and I walk down the long driveway and down the roadway to the corner closest to catch the school buses.

00:20:07 Speaker 07: A kid, so at times a little bit of outdoor air and exercise is also a benefit too.

00:20:15 Speaker 07: And like we have heard, there is the mobility bus.

00:20:18 Speaker 07: It's a point-to-point service for people that qualify.

00:20:22 Speaker 07: So it's not from one destination and then requiring additional foot traffic, but I see Councillor Hamley on the screen, so just going to go Councillor Hamley first.

00:20:38 Speaker 08: Sorry, I think probably, Mr. Chair, I think the easiest thing, perhaps,

00:20:43 Speaker 08: to do instead of asking for staff to come up with a report is maybe just to resurface the transit report because all of these things were contemplated in that,

00:20:53 Speaker 08: and it would be really helpful if committee members were able to read through that report again.

00:21:02 Speaker 07: Well, that would be easy just to share for information, but can you expand on what you're asking there?

00:21:09 Speaker 07: Because I don't think you're entertaining us opening it back up, unless I'm reading that incorrectly.

00:21:16 Speaker 08: No, no, that's right.

00:21:17 Speaker 08: I'm just I know what Councillor Burton is asking for is in that transit report, so I think we should just resurface the transit report.

00:21:29 Speaker 07: I'm just going to go to the director for comment.

00:21:33 Speaker 09: Thank you, Mr.

00:21:33 Speaker 09: Chair: Just so, for everybody's benefit, the existing transit study is available on our website.

00:21:42 Speaker 09: It is a public document.

00:21:44 Speaker 09: It is available specifically at ownsound.ca.

00:21:48 Speaker 09: City government report.

00:21:52 Speaker 09: Government reports and studies.

00:21:54 Speaker 09: So, but if you open the main page and put in "transit study," it should take you to the right location.

00:22:02 Speaker 09: So it is all available there.

00:22:07 Speaker 09: Is that good, Councillor Hamley?

00:22:08 Speaker 09: Hamley: Yeah.

00:22:10 Speaker 08: Michelle Middlebro': I just wanted to raise that point because I think a formal motion would be we're only going to get that report back probably.

00:22:18 Speaker 07: It is good to note that because committee members are always changing, so it is nice to be aware that such a report does exist and it's easy to access.

00:22:28 Speaker 07: I'll just go back to you, Heidi.

00:22:28 Speaker 04: Heidi Jennen: Through, Mr. Chair, that's where I got the information about the costing and how many kilometres it was and how much extra time it would be.

00:22:38 Speaker 04: It's all laid out in the transit study.

00:22:40 Speaker 04: But I don't mind passing along the transit study link to members of the committee.

00:22:44 Speaker 04: Chair: Okay, thanks for that.

00:22:48 Speaker 04: Anything further from committee members?

00:22:49 Speaker 04: Michelle Middlebro': Michelle, go ahead.

00:22:54 Speaker 04: Hi.

00:22:54 Speaker 10: Yeah, I think that there's an opportunity here for looking at a shuttle service because I agree that there are.

00:23:09 Speaker 10: It's not just the seniors, and it's not just people who have physical inability to get to the park.

00:23:20 Speaker 10: I think it is also people who are, you know, single moms or single dads with kids.

00:23:25 Speaker 10: There's a whole demographic available of people who cannot get into Harrison Park, and I think as our residents age,

00:23:36 Speaker 10: there's going to be an even greater demand to get people to the park to enjoy it, especially for those that want to remain in their homes to age in place,

00:23:49 Speaker 10: and I do think there's an opportunity.

00:23:53 Speaker 10: It may not be the city's responsibility.

00:23:56 Speaker 10: It may be a separate committee kind of thing to have a look at to see if there is an opportunity for a shuttle service.

00:24:06 Speaker 10: There were different towns that people were able to come from Owen Sound to Southampton or Saugeen Shores, and that during the summer months, there was a fee involved.

00:24:19 Speaker 10: But I think it was also subsidized through different venues, so that might be something that should be looked at.

00:24:29 Speaker 10: Because I think you have a great idea.

00:24:32 Speaker 10: I just also understand from sitting on the committee for a while now that the city is tight with its budget for going forward, so just a suggestion.

00:24:47 Speaker 10: I'm willing to help out if you want a new set of eyes.

00:24:51 Speaker 10: Chair: Yeah, that's a good comment, and I just wondered, even an application to something like the Owen Sound Community Fund or some of these micro-funding agencies might be something to consider as well.

00:25:12 Speaker 10: Councillor Merton, did you want to add to that?

00:25:13 Speaker 03: Carol Merton: We don't want to lose track of the importance of accessibility to our public facilities.

00:25:21 Speaker 03: It's critical, and for sure, it may be that we need to readdress this once people have had a chance to review or re-review the transit study.

00:25:32 Speaker 03: However, there are always opportunities through grant and granting associations.

00:25:40 Speaker 03: If I often have found that community-based initiatives have the energy to explore options, and certainly, absolutely, Michelle, think that's a great idea.

00:25:54 Speaker 03: But besides, you were talking about the Community Foundation Grey Bruce, of which the Owen Sound Community Fund is part of, or the Owen Sound Fund is part of.

00:26:05 Speaker 03: But there may be other organisations as well who would like to work alongside to bring back opportunities for consideration?

00:26:18 Speaker 03: So I think it opens up a very important aspect of accessibility to our public facilities.

00:26:24 Speaker 03: And if we begin with one aspect of Harrison Park, it's not to say in the future it couldn't include other aspects as well.

00:26:32 Speaker 03: Chair: Thank you, thank you, Chair.

00:26:36 Speaker 01: And thank you very much for the presentation this evening, John.

00:26:44 Speaker 01: So our next item is Item Six, which is Public Forum.

00:26:48 Speaker 01: Are there any individuals here this evening who wish to take part in the public forum?

00:26:57 Speaker 01: And not seeing anyone come to the microphone, so under Item Seven is correspondence received for which direction is required.

00:27:06 Speaker 01: And there is no correspondence this evening.

00:27:08 Speaker 01: We have one report from city staff under Environment, and Heidi is going to share with us news regarding the non-eligible sources for Blue Box transition.

00:27:20 Speaker 01: Heidi Jennen: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

00:27:29 Speaker 04: So, just a little bit of a background.

00:27:33 Speaker 04: So, until recently, municipalities paid for recycling programmememes, and we were able to manage them as well.

00:27:40 Speaker 04: So our contractor, Miller Waste, they operated a MRF, which was responsible for sorting, processing, and marketing the recyclable materials.

00:27:49 Speaker 04: And under that system, municipalities would recover some of the costs, like we would sell the recyclables on the open market.

00:27:57 Speaker 04: Some months we didn't generate a lot of revenue, but other times, like during COVID, material values were high, so we did really well.

00:28:07 Speaker 04: But that all changed in 2023 when the producers, the producers of the recycled material, took over responsibility for collecting, sorting, processing, and marketing the recyclables across Ontario.

00:28:21 Speaker 04: So, as part of that transition, the MRF at Miller Transfer Station closed, and we fully transitioned over on July 1st, 2023.

00:28:33 Speaker 04: So when we just transitioned, the cost of recycling to all residential eligible sources was covered by the producers instead of the municipalities.

00:28:47 Speaker 04: So they covered all residential homes, apartments, and public spaces, but they would not collect from any non-eligible source sources.

00:28:57 Speaker 04: So that would be any business.

00:28:58 Speaker 04: So that would be any businesses, institutions, schools, not-for-profits, daycares, places of worship, and municipal facilities.

00:29:10 Speaker 04: So, but shortly after municipalities began transitioning in 2023, there were rumblings started that the producers would allow the non-eligible material to be commingled with the residential material,

00:29:25 Speaker 04: and that would decrease the cost of having to figure out a way to get the non-eligible material shipped to a separate location.

00:29:41 Speaker 04: The Ministry of Environment, Conservation and Parks were very supportive of municipalities, and they met with the producers to discuss allowing the commingling of the non-eligible and the eligible material.

00:30:00 Speaker 04: So just a few months before Owen Sound transitioned,

00:30:06 Speaker 04: an example of this is at one point the city was looking at costs of about $120,000 to $130,000 to continue collecting the recyclable material from non-eligible sources, but right before we transitioned, Circular Materials,

00:30:25 Speaker 04: who represent the producers, said that we could commingle and it reduced the cost to just under $60,000.

00:30:34 Speaker 04: So we were anticipating that the same thing would happen because the Ministry of Environment and Conservation and Parks were meeting with the producers to work with them to come up with some type of agreement

00:30:56 Speaker 04: that municipalities could continue with the commingling of the eligible and non-eligible material.

00:31:06 Speaker 04: So in June, the ministry reached out to municipalities and said that they were working with the producers.

00:31:14 Speaker 04: And then in August, we met with the producers in Circular Materials who came to municipalities and said we have a proposal where we will cover two percent of the non-eligibles.

00:31:30 Speaker 04: We'll collect two percent of the non-eligibles, and so staff were excited about this because we knew that this would fall within our threshold of the proposed budget of $60,000.

00:31:49 Speaker 04: And then on October 1st, we got a message from, or the Mayor got a message from the MECP as well as the producers,

00:31:59 Speaker 04: confirming that they would not be continuing to commingle the eligible and non-eligible source material.

00:32:09 Speaker 04: So, beginning January 1st, 2026, municipalities would have to decide whether to continue collecting for the non-eligibles, to limit who they would be collecting from, or to stop it altogether.

00:32:24 Speaker 04: So we staff reviewed three options.

00:32:28 Speaker 04: We looked at an option of maintaining collection for all 253 non-eligible locations, so it would be a cost of about $120,000 a year.

00:32:37 Speaker 04: We looked at limiting to just the River District in the downtown, so it would range between $65,000 and $75,000, depending on the option that we took.

00:32:52 Speaker 04: And the other option would just be to end all collection of ineligible material, and generators would have to arrange with a private contractor.

00:33:05 Speaker 04: But that option, although it has no direct cost to the city, it would lead to a lot more staff time, probably especially in the downtown, from costs from curbside litter, illegal set-outs,

00:33:21 Speaker 04: and tipping fees for us to get rid of the recycling.

00:33:30 Speaker 04: There are options.

00:33:34 Speaker 04: We could, if we were to look at just picking up in the downtown in the River District, to recover some of these costs.

00:33:42 Speaker 04: The City could look at something like asbestos.

00:33:43 Speaker 04: Something like a special levy in the downtown, or some type of fee model base, that is another option that we could look at to recover some of the costs to continue collecting in the downtown.

00:34:00 Speaker 04: If that was an option that Committee or Council would want to pursue, thanks.

00:34:10 Speaker 01: Okay, thanks for that.

00:34:11 Speaker 01: And there likely be a few questions because if this started in 2019, I still have questions about this whole programmememe.

00:34:20 Speaker 01: After six years, some of it still had scratching.

00:34:24 Speaker 01: Before I take any questions, you did mention ineligible materials, Heidi.

00:34:29 Speaker 01: The report will always speak to non-eligible sources.

00:34:32 Speaker 01: I presume that you just meant non-eligible sources.

00:34:36 Speaker 01: It's just kind of somewhat interchangeable.

00:34:38 Speaker 01: The materials are the materials.

00:34:39 Speaker 01: It's all dependent upon the source of where the material is coming from.

00:34:44 Speaker 01: So, any questions from Committee?

00:34:49 Speaker 01: I'll look to my right first.

00:34:50 Speaker 01: Who wants to go first?

00:34:52 Speaker 01: Everyone's got a thorough grasp on this disappointing news.

00:34:59 Speaker 01: How do we move forward?

00:35:01 Speaker 01: Member Dwyer, go ahead.

00:35:09 Speaker 01: Thank you, Chair.

00:35:10 Speaker 11: Through the Chair, if the producers can accept most material, but not from ineligible sources, I mean, the idea was that they're responsible for the profits for generating a tin can or a plastic item,

00:35:29 Speaker 11: and that's why they're absorbing the cost of recycling after the product's finished.

00:35:38 Speaker 11: Why is it any different if it's residential or other use for these ineligible ones?

00:35:49 Speaker 11: It's still the same product.

00:35:51 Speaker 11: They benefited from producing it, selling it, having it used, and how can they absolve themselves from the responsibility of managing it for a certain class but not another?

00:36:04 Speaker 11: Doesn't make sense?

00:36:05 Speaker 11: Did they?

00:36:06 Speaker 11: Makes sense.

00:36:07 Speaker 11: Did they cite any reason for why it's like that?

00:36:11 Speaker 11: And is there any way of tackling that level of changing the programmememe instead of having to dance around and absorb other costs that rightfully should be theirs?

00:36:28 Speaker 11: Thank you, Member Dwyer.

00:36:30 Speaker 04: Through, Mr. Chair, that's a question that all the municipalities also ask because even with contamination rates, some of these businesses are cleaner than some households, residential units.

00:36:45 Speaker 04: But I think it's the amount of material that they would have to process and market, and because they're looking at any way that they can save costs.

00:36:56 Speaker 04: For one thing, they as of January 1st, 2026, they were going to expand it into all multi-residential, so that would be even high-rise buildings that currently weren't being collected, and they have since delayed that.

00:37:13 Speaker 04: So they're trying to reduce how much material they are bringing that they will have to process because they're just looking at the costs and if it ends up being the non-eligible sources such as businesses,

00:37:28 Speaker 04: then that's what they claim.

00:37:30 Speaker 04: Even even with originally when they were like commingling the residential and the non-eligible, the municipalities were still paying for the non-eligible.

00:37:44 Speaker 04: But they claim that they just don't have enough room.

00:37:48 Speaker 04: They don't have enough money to process.

00:37:51 Speaker 04: They weren't processing.

00:37:53 Speaker 04: They were being charged too little.

00:37:57 Speaker 04: So they're just in their minds.

00:38:00 Speaker 04: I think they're just.

00:38:01 Speaker 04: It all comes down to money.

00:38:06 Speaker 07: Good question.

00:38:07 Speaker 07: I'll just note before I go to Councillor Kukreja some of the background on this.

00:38:13 Speaker 07: I have an article from this summer.

00:38:14 Speaker 07: The Canadian Retail Council estimates that producer costs have already increased by about 350 per cent in three years,

00:38:22 Speaker 07: and would nearly double again just from this year to next if no changes were made to the impending new rules for 2026.

00:38:29 Speaker 07: And I know that about six weeks ago, maybe it was in the news, the producers asking for new deals.

00:38:36 Speaker 07: But seeing those types of costs, it's pretty staggering.

00:38:43 Speaker 07: I guess what's got missed when they first thought they'd implement this.

00:38:47 Speaker 07: Go to Councillor Kukreja next.

00:38:54 Speaker 07: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

00:38:54 Speaker 09: It's just a short but somewhat facetious comment that just comment that the producers have essentially told the province what municipalities have been telling the province for years—that recycling collection is very expensive and doesn't pay

00:39:09 Speaker 09: for itself.

00:39:10 Speaker 09: Unfortunately, that's now the reality of where we are.

00:39:16 Speaker 09: Thanks, Councillor.

00:39:19 Speaker 05: Thank you, through you, Chair.

00:39:20 Speaker 05: I just have a question, Heidi.

00:39:22 Speaker 05: I was looking at the options that are presented in the report, so option one, assuming that we are talking about the 253 non-eligible locations,

00:39:34 Speaker 05: like the one option one is highly not at all cost efficient, and I don't think so.

00:39:41 Speaker 05: It's sustainable for a longer period of time.

00:39:44 Speaker 05: Option two A, is there a reason why we have two separate days for both the cardboard collection and the blue bin, and then are we looking at picking up the garbage for three days,

00:39:58 Speaker 05: like just as mentioned in the first one?

00:40:03 Speaker 05: Thanks, Councillor Kukreja.

00:40:04 Speaker 05: To you, Heidi.

00:40:09 Speaker 04: Thank you, through you, Mr. Chair.

00:40:13 Speaker 04: So option one it's just it depends on the location of the city.

00:40:17 Speaker 04: If we were to leave it as status quo, depending on the location, that would be the specific day that their recycling could be picked up.

00:40:26 Speaker 04: For option number two, the reason that there are the two separate ones is some of the businesses use carts,

00:40:34 Speaker 04: so they would be picked up on a different day than possibly the ones that are using bags or recycled boxes.

00:40:47 Speaker 04: I think that was your question.

00:40:52 Speaker 04: Follow-up, Councillor Queiroz.

00:40:55 Speaker 12: Thank you, through you, Chair.

00:40:58 Speaker 12: So, in option three, it says about not picking up or non-eligible.

00:41:06 Speaker 12: So, basically, this is an issue that's always stemmed up for the longest time.

00:41:11 Speaker 12: Is there a process or an action plan in place to counter and tag this, or do we just leave it?

00:41:17 Speaker 12: Like the wording that this would require city staff to manage disputes.

00:41:19 Speaker 12: Require city staff to manage disposable, increasing both workload and costs, as well as increasing.

00:41:25 Speaker 12: So, what I'm reading from this option is that if we, if the City refuses to pick this up, or if the service is not provided,

00:41:33 Speaker 12: people will be non-compliant and bags would be left out on the curb.

00:41:37 Speaker 12: So, it is ultimately the City's responsibility to pick up something that is non-compliant.

00:41:44 Speaker 12: So, are we doing that?

00:41:48 Speaker 04: City staff do pick up garbage that is in the downtown if it is left out.

00:41:56 Speaker 04: If there's garbage in front of a household, then at least we can have bylaw.

00:42:02 Speaker 04: They can investigate in front of the household.

00:42:05 Speaker 04: There are different ways that bylaw can find out who belongs like whose garbage it belongs to, but that's always that's not always an easy task.

00:42:20 Speaker 07: I'm going to go to City Manager before going back to you, Councillor Kukreja.

00:42:26 Speaker 07: Thank you, Mr. Chair, and through you.

00:42:28 Speaker 13: Just to add on to Heidi's comments to you, Councillor Kukreja, from a non-compliance, a lot of the ineligible sources is the River District area, which is unfortunate that that's just how it's been defined.

00:42:42 Speaker 13: Not a City definition, but provincial definition, and does definition and designation.

00:42:47 Speaker 13: We have, with those additional costs, we have such a low compliance rate for regular waste pickup in the River District.

00:42:57 Speaker 13: It's ridiculous.

00:42:58 Speaker 13: Like, I'm going to say your our average compliance in the River District for putting like bag tags on trash is maybe 15 per cent.

00:43:07 Speaker 13: So we have approximately 80, 80, 85 per cent of non-compliance in the River District.

00:43:14 Speaker 13: So even though we're picking up 200 plus bags, and we have a premium level of service, it's the only it's the only neighbourhood in the City that has weekly service.

00:43:23 Speaker 13: So, not only is it the worst from a compliance perspective, it's a it's a double the service level of anywhere else in the City.

00:43:32 Speaker 13: So, they get trash picked up every week, and every week we experience approximately at most a 15, maybe on a good week 20 compliance.

00:43:41 Speaker 13: But it's really really low.

00:43:44 Speaker 13: So again, that's when we talk about the extra dollars.

00:43:48 Speaker 13: If if we take a do nothing approach, I think what we're stating is people will just put out their recycling maybe in a black bag instead of a blue box or in a clear bag.

00:43:59 Speaker 13: They'll just bag it, and because it's so low compliance, we'll be the City will be picking up those tipping fees of whatever that might be.

00:44:07 Speaker 13: So that's sort of the counterbalance to this.

00:44:10 Speaker 13: It'll probably just raise the compliance.

00:44:13 Speaker 13: We do have opportunity through service review, through budget.

00:44:17 Speaker 13: We have put in for some additional bylaw positions this year to hopefully do some audit checks within the River District on trash pickup and waste pickup.

00:44:27 Speaker 13: But that's not a.

00:44:28 Speaker 13: It's not the silver bullet.

00:44:30 Speaker 13: It's still very difficult.

00:44:31 Speaker 13: That even when you audit trash, which means somebody going out, opening up a bag, pouring it on a table, looking for identical identical.

00:44:39 Speaker 13: Looking for identifiable information that somebody may have thrown out there, whether it's a flyer, a former bill, just something with a name and address on it to say, "Oh,

00:44:49 Speaker 13: that belongs to this physical street address."

00:44:51 Speaker 13: Because without that, there is it's really a non-chargeable offence.

00:44:56 Speaker 13: It's really difficult to define who put that bag there.

00:45:00 Speaker 13: We don't know, so it's a real quandary of where we are because of provincial issues with our recycling,

00:45:08 Speaker 13: and the three options here that Heidi has done a good job laying out does if if we just continued to move forward, it's 120 thousand dollars a year to the tax levy, nowhere else.

00:45:21 Speaker 13: It's an operating tax levy, and as we I think we know as an Operations Committee, waste currently sits at about two million dollars a year of our operating budget.

00:45:33 Speaker 13: It's one of the highest uses of operating tax levy dollars within the City; it's about two million dollars a year.

00:45:42 Speaker 13: So adding the 120,000 to it just continues to expand that.

00:45:46 Speaker 13: And also, from my own perspective, sorry, in my opinion, moving forward with that option also is a simple and easy download from the province to the City.

00:45:59 Speaker 13: And as soon as municipalities start to say, "Oh, you know, we're going to be really worried about this.

00:46:04 Speaker 13: We better start paying for it."

00:46:05 Speaker 13: Well, then there's no impetus on the province to change anything in the future.

00:46:09 Speaker 13: So we're sort of in that rock in a hard place.

00:46:12 Speaker 13: I think there are some recent conversations within staff that there might be opportunity to look at funding this through perhaps a special area tax levy that's defined to the River District.

00:46:26 Speaker 13: I don't know what those costs are.

00:46:28 Speaker 13: We just haven't had enough time, but there could be something like that where each tax roll within that geographic boundary would have a certain charge added to their tax levy every year.

00:46:42 Speaker 13: But then the recycling would be picked up, but it wouldn't be at the expense of the rest of the City.

00:46:49 Speaker 13: So that's something we could report back on for the November Committee meeting.

00:46:53 Speaker 13: And I don't know.

00:46:54 Speaker 13: I'd look to our Clerk at this if that's a.

00:46:58 Speaker 13: I guess what I'm suggesting is maybe there's a deferral or referral of this report to the next Committee to allow staff some more time to look at some potential revenue options before a decision is

00:47:09 Speaker 13: made of just putting this into an operating budget,

00:47:12 Speaker 13: whether it's the full amount or a partial amount, and what whether it's a fee or a special tax levy could be applied, or some other revenue options.

00:47:21 Speaker 13: Again, that doesn't impact or increase the service level of which is already waste as a premium service level within the downtown.

00:47:31 Speaker 01: Okay.

00:47:31 Speaker 01: Back to Councillor Kukreja.

00:47:33 Speaker 01: Then I see Councillor Hamley's hand in the air, so I'll go to Councillor Hamley after Kukreja.

00:47:40 Speaker 01: Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Tim, for putting it into perspective.

00:47:44 Speaker 12: This is exactly where I was going with just the numbers of the 253, the 253 mentioned here,

00:47:54 Speaker 12: because I think it's not fair to tax the entire population with a premium service that is being provided only to a limited source.

00:48:04 Speaker 12: So, thank you for that.

00:48:05 Speaker 12: So, that is where I was.

00:48:08 Speaker 12: Okay.

00:48:08 Speaker 12: Thank you, Councillor Hamley.

00:48:10 Speaker 12: Next.

00:48:13 Speaker 12: Yeah.

00:48:14 Speaker 12: Thank you, Deputy Mayor.

00:48:16 Speaker 08: I'm glad I'm glad that the City Manager mentioned about potentially deferring this and getting more information because I think there's probably some more work that could be done here just around the options.

00:48:31 Speaker 08: So, I think he mentioned the November meeting of Operations.

00:48:38 Speaker 08: Is that right, City Manager?

00:48:41 Speaker 08: That's correct.

00:48:43 Speaker 08: Yeah, so I would move that we defer this to the November meeting of the Operations Committee, and that staff bring back more fulsome options.

00:48:57 Speaker 01: Okay.

00:48:58 Speaker 01: Thanks, Councillor Hamley.

00:48:59 Speaker 01: We've got that noted.

00:49:01 Speaker 01: Any further questions from Committee, Councillor Merton?

00:49:05 Speaker 01: Go ahead.

00:49:07 Speaker 01: Through you, Chair.

00:49:09 Speaker 03: A comment, not necessarily a question.

00:49:15 Speaker 03: One thing we have learned around the table is once you put a service in, it's really challenging to take it out.

00:49:22 Speaker 03: I really support the deferral.

00:49:25 Speaker 03: We need to really do our homework on this one.

00:49:28 Speaker 03: We need equitable access to whatever service delivery model we want to put in place.

00:49:35 Speaker 03: We also need to recognize that the impact is directly to the taxpayer.

00:49:42 Speaker 03: You know, often there are ways that we can subsidize or grants, but this is a direct cost to the taxpayer, and taxpayers are paying ultimately for the non-compliance of others, and that is a dilemma.

00:49:59 Speaker 03: So strategies to be able to do that, for example, a special tax levy, might be a consideration.

00:50:06 Speaker 03: So certainly more options, and the costing attached to those would be extremely helpful.

00:50:13 Speaker 03: I do support that for sure.

00:50:17 Speaker 14: Okay, thank you, Councillor.

00:50:18 Speaker 14: Any further questions, comments?

00:50:21 Speaker 07: I do have a couple comments.

00:50:25 Speaker 07: Perhaps if you're just bringing a report back with more information, one question I had is: What are the municipal impacts?

00:50:35 Speaker 07: So we're talking commercial and institutional facilities as well as downtowns across the province.

00:50:44 Speaker 07: Perhaps you want to answer that now.

00:50:45 Speaker 07: In terms of, are you aware of the Bayshore Community Centre, the library, for example?

00:50:51 Speaker 07: Have you got anything prepared in response at this time on those?

00:50:58 Speaker 04: Through you, Mr. Chair, I know this report isn't fully captured everything.

00:51:05 Speaker 04: I just wanted to get it out as soon as possible, as soon as we got the news, so that at least the information was somewhat out there.

00:51:14 Speaker 04: So until I knew what exactly how we would proceed.

00:51:20 Speaker 04: I don't have anything separately for each facility, but each facility is responsible for their own waste.

00:51:28 Speaker 04: But that will be again, that will be something that I will make sure that we have costing for each.

00:51:35 Speaker 07: Okay, appreciate that.

00:51:37 Speaker 07: Just thinking, I somewhat detest plastic water bottles, one-time use, drink it, throw it away,

00:51:44 Speaker 07: and I think of the Bayshore Community Centre as a prime example where reusable water bottles that say "Go Attack Go" is the number one thing, perhaps to liquid hydrate yourself through a game.

00:51:58 Speaker 07: And you know when we see a report like this, that the consumption of that plastic then is now a cost that somehow has to be borne by the general taxpayer.

00:52:10 Speaker 07: Second question is: We used to be downtown biweekly, so I certainly personally wonder about the varying days of pickup, the more than one day,

00:52:25 Speaker 07: and if we have a paragraph section in our reports that speaks to greenhouse gases, climate implications, what are we doing for the environment?

00:52:34 Speaker 07: It just seems to me to evaluate opportunities to take trucks off the road one extra day and make it more efficient to perhaps pick up one day only and not multiple days seems to be

00:52:49 Speaker 07: a better action for the planet or for the community.

00:52:54 Speaker 07: Also, then I have a question about commodities.

00:52:59 Speaker 07: Can you have the option ability to somewhat à la carte this?

00:53:03 Speaker 07: I think of certain business on Tenth Street.

00:53:05 Speaker 07: They put out a lot of cardboard.

00:53:08 Speaker 07: Is cardboard a more valuable commodity than other recycling matters?

00:53:13 Speaker 07: So when you're reporting back, can you say there's merit in evaluating just cardboard pickup in the downtown, for example?

00:53:30 Speaker 07: And I'll go to the Director for a response there.

00:53:34 Speaker 07: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

00:53:35 Speaker 09: Yes, cardboard is one of the few things that actually still has resale value on the commodity market, so it would be worthwhile, you know, even if we were going to discontinue the recycling collection completely,

00:53:51 Speaker 09: it might be something we might want to consider keeping.

00:53:55 Speaker 09: How that relates to what our costs would ultimately be for collection, I'm not sure because I'm sure they factor that in when they calculate our total cost for collection, right?

00:54:07 Speaker 09: How much they're going to get from all of the material, but it would be worth looking into.

00:54:13 Speaker 09: Okay, I appreciate that.

00:54:14 Speaker 09: I see, Councillor Merton, did you have a question there?

00:54:17 Speaker 09: Through you, Chair.

00:54:20 Speaker 03: Recognizing that all municipalities have this as an impact on them, has there been any sort of communication to the Association of Municipalities of Ontario to advocate around this, or if someone could respond?

00:54:40 Speaker 09: Through Mr. Chair, Councillor Merton, there has already been a campaign on this through AMO,

00:54:47 Speaker 09: and the result of that was them going back to the table to really think about whether or not there was a way that they could include ineligible sources.

00:54:59 Speaker 09: Unfortunately, the results of that brainstorming was that no, they couldn't.

00:55:05 Speaker 09: So whether or not a new campaign will be launched.

00:55:10 Speaker 09: I'm not sure.

00:55:12 Speaker 09: Probably because we're all still going to be in the same situation.

00:55:16 Speaker 09: But that was already the big impetus for this decision that was just made.

00:55:23 Speaker 01: Okay, thank you very much for that.

00:55:25 Speaker 01: Thank you to staff for being open to the opportunity to bring this report back next month with further information for Committee to evaluate and the recommendation to Council.

00:55:34 Speaker 01: So I'm not seeing any other questions or comments at this time, or any items that people are wondering about further information.

00:55:42 Speaker 01: Although I will go to Member Hawkins just before calling the vote on the deferral.

00:55:48 Speaker 01: Sorry.

00:55:49 Speaker 10: Sure, I'm just wondering regarding the downtown core, the River area, with the amount of empty buildings and lack of businesses,

00:56:04 Speaker 10: how well it would be received to receive a levy or a charge when their buildings are sitting empty and not having a rental.

00:56:17 Speaker 10: So, I believe that most of the issues with the garbage are coming from the tenants that live in these buildings, the rentals, as opposed to maybe the businesses.

00:56:29 Speaker 10: So, just want to know if there's clarification on that.

00:56:34 Speaker 10: Thank you.

00:56:35 Speaker 10: Thanks, Michelle.

00:56:36 Speaker 10: I'll go to Tim for a response there.

00:56:39 Speaker 10: Through you, Chair Greg.

00:56:44 Speaker 13: Yeah, you know we're always balancing the vibrancy, economic vibrancy of the River District and the business community, and part of that, I don't necessarily disagree without evidence that that problem.

00:57:00 Speaker 13: Evidence that probably a lot of the trash and the compliance is probably generated by the residential units.

00:57:11 Speaker 13: However, there's also we have appealed over the past year and a half to the property owners that it's their tenants, and they should be monitoring that on behalf of as a building owner.

00:57:25 Speaker 13: They have rights as building owners to apply certain rules and regulations, and that, like anything, they want a tenant to maintain that apartment in good condition and such, and they have their own tenancy rules.

00:57:40 Speaker 13: So we've appealed to the building owners to help monitor trash in that way.

00:57:49 Speaker 13: So again, yeah, we'll look at the balance of that.

00:57:53 Speaker 13: We'll try to have some numbers that more definitively determine what that sort of share of cost would be from an assessment because I think impact looks at not only the quantity of tax roll properties

00:58:10 Speaker 13: but it's the assessment etc. So we'll try to have a fairly decent estimate of what that would