Owen Sound Committee - Operations Meeting Transcript — December 18, 2025

00:00:16 Speaker 01: And it's five thirty on Thursday, December eighteenth.

00:00:20 Speaker 01: At this time, I'll call the meeting to order for the Operations Committee.

00:00:25 Speaker 01: One week before Christmas season officially is upon us, so I'm glad we were able to have everyone joining us this evening.

00:00:33 Speaker 01: Member Anderson is not able to attend, and Councillor Kukreja is joining virtually this evening.

00:00:41 Speaker 01: Before I get to items of additional business, I just like to go to Lara for an introduction regarding the committee at this time with a new face around the table.

00:00:53 Speaker 02: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

00:00:54 Speaker 02: I would like to introduce Mason Bellamy on my right as our new Manager of Public Works and Engineering.

00:01:06 Speaker 01: All right, keeping us right on schedule here tonight.

00:01:11 Speaker 01: Welcome, Mason.

00:01:12 Speaker 01: Glad to have you joining the team.

00:01:14 Speaker 01: So, first item then before us is items of additional business.

00:01:20 Speaker 01: Are there any items of additional business by committee members this evening?

00:01:24 Speaker 01: Not seeing any from staff.

00:01:27 Speaker 01: Not seeing any online, so we've got no additional business.

00:01:31 Speaker 01: Declarations of interest: are there any declarations to be declared at this time?

00:01:36 Speaker 01: Not seeing any confirmation of the minutes of the November meeting.

00:01:40 Speaker 01: These were approved by council without any question or comments.

00:01:45 Speaker 01: So I'm just looking for someone to move receipt of those.

00:01:49 Speaker 01: Councillor Hamley is so moved.

00:01:51 Speaker 01: Any questions?

00:01:53 Speaker 01: Not seeing any.

00:01:54 Speaker 01: All those in favour.

00:01:56 Speaker 01: Carried unanimously.

00:01:57 Speaker 01: Thank you.

00:01:59 Speaker 01: And this evening we do have a deputation, so welcome Jacob Bostfield Bastido regarding pedestrian infrastructure.

00:02:08 Speaker 01: This time, welcome, and turn the floor over to you.

00:02:14 Speaker 03: Thanks, committee, for the opportunity to speak tonight.

00:02:19 Speaker 03: My name is Jake Bostfield-Bastido.

00:02:22 Speaker 03: I live just east of downtown Owen Sound, and yeah, I wanted to speak tonight about my perspective on pedestrian infrastructure.

00:02:31 Speaker 03: So, I wanted to touch on it in these sort of three topic areas: from the specific to the general.

00:02:42 Speaker 03: First is my kind of pet issue.

00:02:46 Speaker 03: The thing that got me thinking about this was a pedestrian signal at Ninth Street West and Second Avenue West.

00:02:54 Speaker 03: From there, I want to consider what is the broader approach to pedestrian signals in the city,

00:03:01 Speaker 03: and then finally spring from there to just talk about opportunities to increase walkability in the town in a sort of step-by-step incremental way.

00:03:12 Speaker 03: Before getting into it too much further, just to share kind of my general perspective on walkability and why it matters to us: so I do have a car;

00:03:23 Speaker 03: I drive out of town for work a couple days a week.

00:03:25 Speaker 03: I'm not here to say let's ban cars, but at the same time, I walk a lot.

00:03:32 Speaker 03: Someone from my household—me or my wife—does daycare drop-off right through downtown most days a week.

00:03:38 Speaker 03: We're walking the dog in the neighbourhood; we walk to downtown.

00:03:41 Speaker 03: So I think I have a perspective of sort of the balance that is to be struck.

00:03:48 Speaker 03: And in my opinion—and this is what a lot of places around the world are discovering—we do live in cities mostly built for cars, and we're finding ways to kind of change that narrative.

00:04:00 Speaker 03: So right now, as a resident, I see this really exciting discussion happening at council and committee tables around the health of our downtown, safety, economic vitality,

00:04:14 Speaker 03: and I just really want to see walkability anchored in that discussion.

00:04:19 Speaker 03: When I think about the days where I'm driving, downtown is at best kind of a nuisance to my morning; I just want to get through it.

00:04:27 Speaker 03: The days where I'm walking are days where I might stop for a coffee and support a local business.

00:04:33 Speaker 03: I might say hi to a neighbour or say good morning to someone who might have slept on the street the night before.

00:04:40 Speaker 03: So, yeah, that's kind of the perspective I wanted to anchor all of this in.

00:04:47 Speaker 03: So moving to the first thing I wanted to touch about is this intersection: Ninth Street West and Second Avenue West, just on the other side of the river.

00:04:59 Speaker 03: When we do daycare drop-off, we're going east-west on Ninth every day.

00:05:04 Speaker 03: When we get to that intersection, we are faced with a button; so we have to ask permission to cross the street there.

00:05:12 Speaker 03: So a couple things could happen: We arrive in time to press that button, or we just miss it—which seems to happen every morning—and the "Walk Don't Walk" sign comes up.

00:05:24 Speaker 03: Meanwhile, the cars get the green light and they get to go.

00:05:27 Speaker 03: So we're faced with a decision: Do I cross illegally, half a block from the police station, and with a toddler in tow who's really quickly learning what road signs mean?

00:05:37 Speaker 03: Or do I wait the few minutes for the cycle to repeat?

00:05:41 Speaker 03: So I started thinking about this.

00:05:43 Speaker 03: I brought it up through Report of Concern with the City, which has been a really positive experience.

00:05:48 Speaker 03: I got connected to Director Widdifield, who's been really generous with her time and kind of talking me through some of this—what changes could be made.

00:05:58 Speaker 03: So I wanted to: I don't want to speak on your behalf; please correct me after if I've misrepresented anything, of course.

00:06:04 Speaker 03: But my general understanding is that the north-south road here, Second Avenue West, is a little bit busier so it gets that sort of dominant role.

00:06:17 Speaker 03: The signal would stay green north-south unless a car is sensed east-west or unless I press the button; so that's to improve north-south flow.

00:06:30 Speaker 03: So I certainly understand there is a traffic engineering argument in support of this kind of regime, but what I wanted to share is maybe on the opposite side: the sort of human aspect.

00:06:43 Speaker 03: So the reasons that I think these pedestrian buttons should—maybe be reconsidered at least in some instances—the main reason for me is what I was insinuating before:

00:06:55 Speaker 03: kind of this idea of street ownership and dignity really.

00:07:00 Speaker 03: So when I show up and I have to ask permission to cross the street,

00:07:04 Speaker 03: or if I'm there on my bike and I'm too light to trigger the car sensor but I'm not supposed to get up on the sidewalk on my bike—definitely feel like a second-class user of the

00:07:16 Speaker 03: infrastructure.

00:07:17 Speaker 03: The second thing that I think about is accessibility too.

00:07:21 Speaker 03: So I know there is an accessibility aspect to these buttons; they can trigger the noise.

00:07:27 Speaker 03: I see that it's being developed through the City, but I also wanted to share this picture I took last winter—I know it's pretty triggering—but when I think about accessibility,

00:07:41 Speaker 03: I think only an able-bodied adult is able to engage with the infrastructure in our winters.

00:07:50 Speaker 03: And just in doing some reading, I actually noted that Grey County's Age-Friendly Community Action Plan specifically notes as one priority item at least exploring where there are opportunities for dedicated pedestrian signals.

00:08:06 Speaker 03: So I would love to see: I'm not saying I know what the solution is, but I think there are opportunities to improve this.

00:08:13 Speaker 03: Maybe the signal is given certain times of day; and the Director has suggested there's changes that could be possible, dependent on available tech and that kind of thing.

00:08:27 Speaker 03: So from there, that got me thinking about you know what's the situation across town.

00:08:32 Speaker 03: I think there's an opportunity to bring a perspective of maybe consistency.

00:08:38 Speaker 03: There's a lot of different buttons through the city.

00:08:40 Speaker 03: If you start walking around, you'll notice they seem to work half the time.

00:08:44 Speaker 03: Not sure if they make a noise or a light comes on, and the way that they are set up.

00:08:49 Speaker 03: I just wanted to share a couple Google Street View grabs.

00:08:53 Speaker 03: This is the intersection across from the Y. So anyone walking from downtown would be coming from the right side of the screen there, because there's only a sidewalk on one side,

00:09:03 Speaker 03: so you've hustled your way all the way up Tenth Street Hill.

00:09:07 Speaker 03: You got a good warm-up for your workout.

00:09:09 Speaker 03: You have to go.

00:09:11 Speaker 03: I know it doesn't look like much in this picture, but it seems to always be enough to miss the cycle.

00:09:15 Speaker 03: You got to run around the corner, get the button.

00:09:20 Speaker 03: Similarly, in front of intersections, the buttons are a bit of a hike from the actual intersection.

00:09:29 Speaker 03: One of them's hidden behind a wooden pole here; these may be instances where a button is merited.

00:09:36 Speaker 03: You're crossing a provincial highway, but again, this design aspect where this button's situated certainly positions you as a pedestrian as a second-class user.

00:09:48 Speaker 03: Lastly, just with my few minutes here, I just wanted to kind of spring from here and highlight what I see as opportunities for achieving the goal.

00:09:59 Speaker 03: Achieving the goals of pedestrianization, but in a sort of step-by-step incremental way.

00:10:05 Speaker 03: Council approved, I think, just on Monday, a big expenditure for a new report to study opportunities for streetscape improvement in the River District, which I think is great.

00:10:16 Speaker 03: I think that's what leads to really transformative projects like what we have along the river.

00:10:23 Speaker 03: It's fantastic, but I don't want to lose sight of the opportunities to just work our way there little bit by bit.

00:10:31 Speaker 03: So, just a couple examples that I'm aware of as best practices.

00:10:36 Speaker 03: One is advanced pedestrian signals.

00:10:38 Speaker 03: So, if you saw this light, you had between four and six seconds, is what it says in the Ontario Traffic Manual, to start walking before the cars get their green light.

00:10:48 Speaker 03: That's an opportunity for bodies to just get a little bit further before someone makes a right turn without looking.

00:10:55 Speaker 03: On a similar vein, no right turns on red can be appropriate at certain intersections.

00:11:00 Speaker 03: Again, these are the right turns where we're all used to looking left to see if there's a car coming.

00:11:09 Speaker 03: No one's coming.

00:11:10 Speaker 03: Okay, I'm going to start walking; failing to see if there's someone crossing.

00:11:15 Speaker 03: Finally, I just wanted to touch on curb radius.

00:11:18 Speaker 03: So the difference in being above is what is the case in a lot of places in town.

00:11:27 Speaker 03: If you tighten that radius a little bit,

00:11:31 Speaker 03: it shortens literally the amount of time a pedestrian is on that street and slows cars down just that little bit where they might have to have a bit more spatial awareness before rounding that bend.

00:11:44 Speaker 03: These could be really big projects, probably best done when the streets are all ripped up.

00:11:48 Speaker 03: But again, I just want to highlight that there are opportunities if it's a priority to achieve that outside of those huge multi-year capital expenditures.

00:11:59 Speaker 03: Okay, I've got fifty-five minutes now, so strap in.

00:12:04 Speaker 03: No, I'm almost done here.

00:12:07 Speaker 03: Even more temporary than that is this from the City of Winnipeg.

00:12:11 Speaker 03: These can be put out even just as sort of a pilot to get a feel.

00:12:17 Speaker 03: You know how angry are the drivers going to be?

00:12:20 Speaker 03: How good is it for walkers?

00:12:22 Speaker 03: Could be lifted up when the snow is there.

00:12:26 Speaker 03: So I'll leave it there.

00:12:29 Speaker 03: Just want to say thanks again for the opportunity to share.

00:12:31 Speaker 03: I have my specific intersection that is the thing that I'm thinking about every day.

00:12:37 Speaker 03: But I do just want to appreciate the opportunity to share that perspective more broadly with the committee.

00:12:46 Speaker 03: Okay.

00:12:46 Speaker 03: Thanks, Jacob.

00:12:48 Speaker 03: Are there any questions regarding the deputation, Councillor?

00:12:49 Speaker 03: During the deputation, Councillor Merton, go ahead through you Chair.

00:12:55 Speaker 04: This is a question directed to Lara, the Director of Public Works and Engineering.

00:13:03 Speaker 04: Have we ever explored the opportunity of a pedestrian infrastructure classification model that would look at urban planning and a lot of the issues that have been raised tonight?

00:13:20 Speaker 02: Through the chair to you, Councillor, that would—that's an expectation that I have as we go forward to develop the scope of the transportation master plan.

00:13:30 Speaker 02: I fully intend to link together.

00:13:34 Speaker 02: Sort of, we have a trails master plan to look at how those two things interact with each other, and also how the transit system meshes all in it.

00:13:44 Speaker 02: It really should be a multimodal study.

00:13:50 Speaker 02: Anything further through you, Chair?

00:13:54 Speaker 04: Just to follow up, we know it takes time to do those.

00:14:00 Speaker 04: Based on the information presented tonight, I'm curious to know what opportunities, next steps, interim steps might be available to proceed.

00:14:16 Speaker 02: Thank you.

00:14:17 Speaker 02: Councillor Merton.

00:14:18 Speaker 02: The so our presenter, thank you very much for showing the committee some of the things that probably I should have presented on at some point.

00:14:30 Speaker 02: But to repeat some of the things that I've already given Jake: all of our traffic signals.

00:14:40 Speaker 02: He's correct; are they're all different vintages?

00:14:44 Speaker 02: The pedestrian buttons are all different types of equipment.

00:14:47 Speaker 02: We have most of them older, some newer, but still not living up to their expected lifespan.

00:14:54 Speaker 02: They get vandalized and damaged.

00:14:58 Speaker 02: So as we sort of pirate parts from one compatible intersection to repair another, eventually we get to the point where we need to replace the equipment at the entire intersection;

00:15:12 Speaker 02: that is when we would be looking at fully trying to update the standards that intersection is built to.

00:15:20 Speaker 02: Even if we're not necessarily changing curbs and roadway geometry, we're at least trying to reconfigure the pedestrian buttons.

00:15:32 Speaker 02: The new standard is to put them on a stanchion because they need to be 1.5 metres away from the crossing.

00:15:38 Speaker 02: But then that also causes us problems with winter maintenance; our sidewalk plow requires one point four six metres of clearance, so it's very much a delicate balancing act.

00:15:51 Speaker 02: So between the best interests of pedestrians, the best interests of our operations staff, and like sort of the overall community,

00:16:01 Speaker 02: we try at the end of the day to come up with a solution that hopefully mostly works for everybody.

00:16:08 Speaker 02: Like I said, we're looking into newer pedestrian button equipment as we replace our infrastructure.

00:16:18 Speaker 02: We're going to be looking into how we programmemememe them to see if we can get it so that the signal for pedestrians automatically changes in sync with the lights.

00:16:31 Speaker 02: But if you push the button, it gives you a few more seconds;

00:16:35 Speaker 02: so that meets the needs of people who often prefer to be able to push the button because they know that they're controlling the signal.

00:16:45 Speaker 02: And people with mobility issues often prefer not to.

00:16:49 Speaker 02: So again, even within an accessibility classification, we have multiple competing priorities.

00:16:59 Speaker 02: I hope in a roundabout way that answers your question.

00:17:01 Speaker 02: But if you have anything specific that you want to know, please let me know.

00:17:07 Speaker 02: Any further questions?

00:17:09 Speaker 01: Not seeing any and don't see any online.

00:17:13 Speaker 01: I'm acutely familiar with every intersection that you pointed out; the person facing west on Ninth Street at the lights never gets it triggered from my bike either.

00:17:26 Speaker 01: So I can dismount and then just walk my bike across to the corner and then walk it back, so I remain safe again.

00:17:32 Speaker 01: And so I do appreciate the exact instances that you're referring to and often traverse.

00:17:41 Speaker 01: I would note that any time we undertake work at an intersection, we are mandated to make it AODA compliant.

00:17:54 Speaker 01: So for anybody watching online who sees that picture at what let me call it the KFC corner—I guess is what it's best known for—that is nowhere close to being compliant in today's realm;

00:18:06 Speaker 01: it uses old technology.

00:18:07 Speaker 01: Any time we do undertake intersection and road work, we're endeavoring to make it AODA compliant and remove those almost obsolete devices where they are located.

00:18:26 Speaker 01: So thank you very much for the presentation this evening, and we appreciate it.

00:18:35 Speaker 01: So item six is public forum, and we've got one member of the public here this evening.

00:18:41 Speaker 01: Unless you've got another item you'd like to raise, I don't think we'll have any items before us from the public forum.

00:18:52 Speaker 01: We've got no correspondence items being presented for consideration under item seven; so we are down to item eight: reports of city staff, of which there are three this evening.

00:19:02 Speaker 01: The first one is a straightforward traffic bylaw amendment, but I will pass it over to staff to introduce that recommendation before committee.

00:19:14 Speaker 02: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

00:19:16 Speaker 02: As you noted, this would like to say housekeeping, but not really;

00:19:21 Speaker 02: it's an amendment to add some parking regulations to the traffic bylaw to reflect the assumption of service for a industrial development in the northeast area of town.

00:19:36 Speaker 02: So you want me to read?

00:19:38 Speaker 02: Yes, okay.

00:19:41 Speaker 02: The recommendation is that in consideration of staff report OP 25-041 respecting traffic bylaw amendments for on-street parking, intersections, stop control and yield right-of-way regulations,

00:19:52 Speaker 02: the operations committee recommends that city council direct staff to bring forward a bylaw to amend the traffic bylaw (2009-075) to include the following on-street parking prohibitions:

00:20:03 Speaker 02: 28th Avenue East from 17th Street East to 18th Street East; 18th Street East from 27th Avenue East to 28th Avenue East; 17th Street East from 27th Avenue East to 28th Avenue East;

00:20:16 Speaker 02: 27th Avenue East from 17th Street to 18th Street East; and the cul-de-sac on 18th Street East as outlined in the report.

00:20:25 Speaker 02: To the following stop control regulations: intersection of 18th Street East at 28th Avenue East, intersection of 18th Street East at 27th Avenue East, and intersection of 17th Street East at 28th Avenue East.

00:20:37 Speaker 02: The implementation of yield right-of-way regulations at First Street East as outlined in the report; and amendments to Schedule 25 regarding yield right-of-way as outlined in the report.

00:20:48 Speaker 02: I should probably also note that my omission of mentioning the cul-de-sac was intended only to clarify parking requirements in the area of the Bayshore Community Centre, specifically for enforcement purposes.

00:21:02 Speaker 02: So if the committee has any questions, I would be happy to answer them.

00:21:06 Speaker 05: Thank you, Larry.

00:21:07 Speaker 05: And I should just note some background: the city recently assumed responsibility for those streets on the eastern border from the developer;

00:21:16 Speaker 05: so that is what motivates references to 27th Street and also 17th and 18th Streets.

00:21:23 Speaker 05: Any questions from members of committee?

00:21:26 Speaker 05: Not seeing any.

00:21:28 Speaker 05: Just looking for a motion to move the recommendation.

00:21:33 Speaker 05: Member Hawkins moves it seconded.

00:21:36 Speaker 05: No further questions.

00:21:37 Speaker 05: All those in favour?

00:21:39 Speaker 05: That's carried unanimously.

00:21:40 Speaker 05: Thank you.

00:21:42 Speaker 05: And the next item then is 8B-1 to Heidi regarding minor changes to timing for One Sound Transit.

00:21:53 Speaker 05: Thank you, through you Mr. Chair.

00:21:56 Speaker 06: This is just an information report; city staff and the transit contractor are working together to try to come up with ideas to have better on-time performance.

00:22:12 Speaker 06: So we're looking at our proposal of two longer trips: typically we have thirty-minute routes, but this one would be two forty-five-minute trips during some of the busier afternoon periods.

00:22:26 Speaker 06: One of the forty-five-minute runs would be from 12:30 until 1:15; then the second run would occur at 3:15 till [4:15], and then regular service would resume at four o'clock.

00:22:43 Speaker 06: The changes wouldn't happen until February 1st because there's time that staff need to update the GTFS data, so staff are recommending implementing the changes for a six-month pilot to evaluate their effectiveness.

00:23:01 Speaker 06: Besides the two forty-five-minute runs, the remainder of the day will continue to be thirty-minute runs.

00:23:12 Speaker 06: The recommendation is that in consideration of staff report OP 25-044 respecting minor timing changes for One Sound Transit, the Operations Committee recommends that City Council receive the report for information purposes.

00:23:26 Speaker 06: Thanks.

00:23:28 Speaker 01: Thank you, Heidi.

00:23:28 Speaker 01: And are there questions from committee?

00:23:32 Speaker 01: Councillor Hamley, go ahead.

00:23:35 Speaker 07: So I'm guessing just kind of like the origin of all of this is it's happening all the time; so we need to plan better for it so people understand.

00:23:43 Speaker 07: Is that kind of correct?

00:23:48 Speaker 06: Yes Mr. Chair, that's correct.

00:23:50 Speaker 06: Currently throughout the day they start getting later and later instead of half an hour; it could be a couple minutes here and there,

00:24:00 Speaker 06: then they end up missing a run or the times are way off—so they're leaving twenty minutes after instead of leaving at say three o'clock or 3:30.

00:24:15 Speaker 06: So these are the two busier times where they find that there are more delays, so they're hoping this will help resolve that.

00:24:27 Speaker 06: Okay.

00:24:27 Speaker 06: Any further questions?

00:24:30 Speaker 01: Not seeing any.

00:24:30 Speaker 01: I do have one.

00:24:31 Speaker 01: I presume your signage updates will apply to all the routes and transit stops in terms of notifying through you, Mr. Chair.

00:24:42 Speaker 01: Yes, that's right.

00:24:44 Speaker 06: We will make sure there is notification on the buses; the app will be updated as well, as will the bus shelters possibly.

00:24:58 Speaker 06: But we will also have a media release, and it'll be on the website as well.

00:25:02 Speaker 01: Okay, and actually that precipitates another question: How is the app working?

00:25:08 Speaker 01: We've probably had it for about a year now in terms of accurately responding to individuals using it to see where the buses are through you, Mr. Chair.

00:25:21 Speaker 06: Well, the app works as well as if we're not using a spare bus.

00:25:26 Speaker 06: As long as we're not using a spare bus, then they work well because there is a GPS tracking system inside them.

00:25:33 Speaker 06: I do know that when I go to Georgian College and speak with students about transit, a lot of them already use the app,

00:25:42 Speaker 06: even if they are new to town because they came from another municipality that did have the app.

00:25:48 Speaker 06: So, but the app again is only as good as long as it's not a spare bus in service.

00:25:57 Speaker 06: Thanks.

00:25:58 Speaker 06: Okay, thank you.

00:25:59 Speaker 06: Not seeing any questions, Councillor Merton.

00:26:02 Speaker 06: Go ahead through you, Chair.

00:26:04 Speaker 06: I will move the recommendation.

00:26:06 Speaker 04: However, I have one question about the evaluation.

00:26:10 Speaker 04: This was initiated as a result of analytics and timing and route, but it also will have an impact on riders and some of their scheduling.

00:26:21 Speaker 04: Will you be encouraging or doing a survey or asking for public feedback in addition to the factual data regarding whether the bus came and went and arrived when it should have?

00:26:37 Speaker 06: Through you, Mr. Chair.

00:26:39 Speaker 06: Yes, we did do that for the previous change that we made.

00:26:43 Speaker 06: So actually I didn't have that in the report, but that's a really good idea.

00:26:52 Speaker 06: That is something yes; we would probably do around month four because then we would have part of winter and some of spring included.

00:27:00 Speaker 06: So yep, that's what I will do.

00:27:03 Speaker 06: Thanks.

00:27:05 Speaker 01: Okay, thank you.

00:27:06 Speaker 01: The recommendation has been moved.

00:27:08 Speaker 01: I'm not seeing any further questions.

00:27:10 Speaker 01: All those in favour?

00:27:13 Speaker 01: Carried unanimously.

00:27:14 Speaker 01: Thank you.

00:27:15 Speaker 01: And one further report is regarding the flat rate water charge and wire-related fee amendment.

00:27:22 Speaker 01: So I will pass this back over to Lara to introduce this item.

00:27:27 Speaker 02: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

00:27:29 Speaker 02: This is another horrifically long recommendation that I'm really looking forward to reading out, but first I'll give you sort of a brief background.

00:27:38 Speaker 02: These are some additional changes we're implementing because we are very close to the end of the water metre replacement project.

00:27:48 Speaker 02: Neptune Technologies, the contractor, is now done at the end of this week because they have to leave town to go to another municipality.

00:27:56 Speaker 02: So the couple hundred that are outstanding:

00:28:01 Speaker 02: we either have to do it with our own forces or a contracted plumber so in order to whittle that number down or come up with a manageable solution for properties that,

00:28:14 Speaker 02: at the end of the day, just refuse to allow access to have the metre replaced, we need to be able to come up with an equitable solution for billing purposes.

00:28:25 Speaker 02: So what we're going to do is: first step, we're going to do another big push to try to get everybody else who hasn't done it yet to respond and book appointments,

00:28:41 Speaker 02: hopefully replacing their metres knowing that there will be financial impacts in the coming months if they choose not to.

00:28:52 Speaker 02: That being said, there will be an administration fee of fifty dollars per month added; on a quarterly billing this would add up to one hundred and fifty dollars on your bill.

00:29:00 Speaker 02: so that's a fairly large incentive right off the bat,

00:29:08 Speaker 02: justified by the fact that we would then be billing them on an estimated charge based on the average of the previous year's use because we would no longer necessarily be able to trust what is

00:29:21 Speaker 02: coming out of the metre;

00:29:23 Speaker 02: over time they lose their ability to measure particularly low volume flows like just a trickle type flow.

00:29:33 Speaker 02: The other thing we'll have to do is when property changes hands,

00:29:41 Speaker 02: new accounts will not be able to be set up unless a new metre is installed or our staff has signed off and said that the metre is acceptable to remain.

00:29:51 Speaker 02: So that's another way to catch them.

00:29:53 Speaker 02: Even if it is the current owner who doesn't want to allow installation, the next owner isn't really going to have a choice; it just will happen.

00:30:02 Speaker 02: Same thing with water turn-ons: like if the water is shut off right now and they want it turned back on at the curb stop, we'll have to do the same thing.

00:30:13 Speaker 02: And lastly, in here we've implemented recommending adding a seventy-five dollar missed appointment charge because the way our fee schedule is written, it's only applicable if the property owner requests the service call.

00:30:30 Speaker 02: So this also goes that if we set up an appointment with them and the person doesn't give us reasonable notice they are not able to meet that appointment,

00:30:39 Speaker 02: then we can charge for staff time regarding not having an appointment fill that space.

00:30:49 Speaker 02: I'll read the recommendation; if you have any other questions, I would be happy to answer them.

00:30:56 Speaker 02: That in consideration of Staff Report OP 25-027 respecting a flat rate water charge and water-related fee bylaw amendments, the Operations Committee recommends City Council:

00:31:06 Speaker 02: one) directs staff to bring forward amendments to the Fees and Charges Bylaw to implement a billing rate for outstanding manual metre accounts based on the prior year's average monthly consumption;

00:31:17 Speaker 02: b) an administration fee of one hundred and fifty dollars per billing cycle (fifty dollars per month) for accounts that have refused metre installation;

00:31:26 Speaker 02: c) a revised billing methodology for all water accounts not yet converted to new automated metres based on historical actual water consumption; d) a policy effective July 1,

00:31:38 Speaker 02: 2026 requiring property owners who previously refused installation and later elected to convert cover the full cost of installation.

00:31:46 Speaker 02: Two: direct staff to provide notice of amendments to the Fees and Charges Bylaws required by the Notice Bylaw.

00:31:52 Speaker 02: Three: direct staff to issue registered letters confirming refusal status for accounts currently identified as refusals.

00:32:00 Speaker 02: Four: approve application of the administration fee beginning with cycles having billing dates after March 1, 2026, for confirmed refusal accounts.

00:32:09 Speaker 02: And five:

00:32:11 Speaker 02: direct staff to bring forward a bylaw amending Water Management Bylaw Number 2025-090 to prohibit creation of new water metre accounts without installation of a new metre or the existing metre being inspected and approved by

00:32:24 Speaker 02: staff.

00:32:25 Speaker 02: I did omit one thing when giving you the brief introduction, and that was the cost of installation: if they chose to do it themselves afterwards, it would be at their cost;

00:32:37 Speaker 02: they would have to hire a qualified plumber.

00:32:40 Speaker 02: So I will take any questions.

00:32:43 Speaker 05: Thank you very much for that, and I'm certain there will be lots of questions.

00:32:47 Speaker 05: I'll start with Member Indo, then go to Councillor Hamley next through you Chair.

00:32:53 Speaker 08: Just a couple questions: like is it approximately 200 homeowners who have refused?

00:33:00 Speaker 08: And I'm just curious why they're refusing or maybe you don't know.

00:33:07 Speaker 08: Then the second question regarding item D: if property was sold prior to July 1st, will the new owner be on the hook for this cost?

00:33:20 Speaker 02: Thank you very much Member Indo through you Mr Chair So there are about 150 that have either outright refused or just haven't responded to any communications they've received and then the remainder are essentially left

00:33:43 Speaker 02: out due no fault of their own:

00:33:45 Speaker 02: either we need to find or repair a curb stop, water is shut off and property isn't accessible, or whatever.

00:33:55 Speaker 02: There's a variety of other miscellaneous reasons.

00:34:01 Speaker 02: We did have some on the list originally;

00:34:07 Speaker 02: there was an initial report sorry initial inspection that determined they had a new metre but then when we initiated the radio reception system it wasn't sending adequate signal so then they got put back on

00:34:24 Speaker 02: the list.

00:34:25 Speaker 02: A lot of times people don't understand that is now their requirement to rebook So we're going to be targeting some specific messages in upcoming letters we send out and they will have signature required so

00:34:45 Speaker 02: hopefully not just getting lost somewhere too That's another possibility:

00:34:51 Speaker 02: some of these letters haven't even gotten through And then the last question you had yeah for one-offs like properties changing hands close to deadline I'm sure we can be reasonable with unique cases;

00:35:11 Speaker 02: I wouldn't draw a hard line where people get stuck because they chose to move into a house on certain date Okay Arlene Anything further Through Chair Not seeing any questions Councillor Hamley Go ahead Laura

00:36:19 Speaker 02: Thank you Mr Chair Yeah just wanted to respond So that's why we want to send registered letters first and then required response Either confirm opting out understanding additional charge or if choose not respond we're

00:36:39 Speaker 02: not leaving it as one attempt at communication Even Neptune sent probably for each They were required by contract try contact each property five times I'm sure they did more than that quite a few accounts

00:37:09 Speaker 02: So you know continue trying reach these people door knocks Like doing what can But end day if people refuse response have mechanism charge them so overall water users aren't subsidizing their water Councilmember Hamlin Yeah

00:37:26 Speaker 07: first off top like got over nine thousand units city only 366 haven't switched pretty impressive well done Usually when start thinking deal problems other options I was wondering alternatives Through Chair Councillor Hamley We initially

00:38:17 Speaker 02: looked and think talked venue threatening water shutoffs type thing Ultimately chose not go direction because delicate subject Know other municipalities restricted flow inconvenient level but we chose not So already variety different Neptune sent letters

00:38:46 Speaker 02: They have made phone calls when we had numbers available.

00:38:52 Speaker 02: In the case of commercial enterprises, we contacted tenants as well as building owners; they also conducted door-to-door visits.

00:39:03 Speaker 02: We were going to do another round of registered letters but realized that it was so close to the end of their contract that there would probably be little value in doing so.

00:39:10 Speaker 02: So while we could have come in heavier with even more restrictive financial penalties, between the Treasurer and I this became a solution that both of us are comfortable with; therefore, that is what we propose.

00:39:34 Speaker 02: You're good?

00:39:35 Speaker 02: Okay, Councillor Kukreja, go ahead through you, Chair.

00:39:42 Speaker 02: One question raised was similar to Councillor Hamley's: "What were some of the other options we would be looking at?"

00:39:51 Speaker 09: My additional question concerns the entire process for changing water metres—specifically switching from a three-month billing cycle to a monthly one.

00:39:59 Speaker 09: What is the timeline for that?

00:40:02 Speaker 09: When will it be implemented?

00:40:07 Speaker 02: Thank you, Councillor Kukreja; go through you, Chair.

00:40:12 Speaker 02: Yes,

00:40:13 Speaker 02: that is another reason why we need to essentially switch over to a different format of billing for properties that have not participated in the programmemememe because continuing with them is not really a viable option

00:40:29 Speaker 02: either.

00:40:30 Speaker 02: Although we are exploring alternatives—and one alternative involves getting a quote from the service provider on how much it would cost to continue having someone literally drive or walk around to manually read some of these

00:40:46 Speaker 02: remaining properties—I do not expect that will be a viable option by the end of the day.

00:40:54 Speaker 02: The estimating solution will allow us to transition to monthly billing.

00:41:01 Speaker 02: I don't want to put a specific timeline on this because, aside from me personally supporting it, this part is very heavily driven by the Financial Services Group.

00:41:10 Speaker 02: However, moving forward with the estimation approach represents the logical next step in this process.

00:41:19 Speaker 02: Together with providing residents with a user interface so they can check their own usage—and not necessarily wait for their bill to tell them whether or not they might have a leak that has been driving

00:41:34 Speaker 02: up their costs—the timeline-wise estimate is perhaps within 2026,

00:41:41 Speaker 02: but I don't want to give a commitment as to exactly when.

00:41:44 Speaker 02: Nothing further, Councillor Kukreja?

00:41:51 Speaker 01: Okay; go to Councillor Merton, then Member Cron next through you, Chair.

00:42:04 Speaker 04: Are you getting any interpretation on the reasons why this concerns me?

00:42:11 Speaker 04: You know, it does concern me.

00:42:16 Speaker 04: I am not quite comfortable with it.

00:42:18 Speaker 04: While I understand the necessity, I would wonder whether there is more context beyond simply hearing "no." It would be helpful to know that; that's my first question.

00:42:33 Speaker 02: Thank you, Councillor Merton; go through Mr. Chair.

00:42:41 Speaker 02: There are, I think, sort of three main buckets of concerns voiced to us: one being health-related impacts.

00:42:52 Speaker 02: To counter that, the equipment is CSA-approved and has passed rigorous testing.

00:43:02 Speaker 02: It is widely used.

00:43:05 Speaker 02: The actual transmission unit is located outside your home in most cases.

00:43:11 Speaker 02: While there are some metres where it sits right on the body, those are not among the ones we've been installing through this programmemememe; so they represent a very small minority.

00:43:23 Speaker 02: Let's set that health concern aside for now.

00:43:29 Speaker 02: The second bucket typically involves liability: residents were resentful at being asked to allow a third-party contractor into their home.

00:43:39 Speaker 02: That was a concern voiced by several individuals whose feedback came across my desk.

00:43:47 Speaker 02: What was the last one?

00:43:48 Speaker 02: I've lost my train of thought—health, then liability.

00:44:04 Speaker 01: No—we can circle back to it later.

00:44:07 Speaker 01: Yes; I'll go back to Councillor Merton and give you time to think about it.

00:44:10 Speaker 01: That third bucket: sometimes when you pause and change topics, thoughts just flash by unexpectedly.

00:44:17 Speaker 01: So we'll wait for your "flash."

00:44:19 Speaker 04: My other question or query is this: Is it possible for staff to take the initiative as a planned action—reaching out,

00:44:35 Speaker 04: identifying those who will not respond—and report back to Committee within the first quarter of 2026?

00:44:44 Speaker 04: That would then allow us again the chance to review what has happened prior to the July 1st planned implementation.

00:44:56 Speaker 04: We've done an initial sweep with tremendous success; but I'm just wondering if there is an opportunity for us, as a committee,

00:45:05 Speaker 04: to get feedback on what occurred as a result of your strategy before the effective date of July 1st becomes actual?

00:45:19 Speaker 04: Three—Mr. Chair: Could I suggest that staff proceeds with our plan to continue attempting to install metres in buildings where owners are willing and ask for feedback from those who respond negatively?

00:45:46 Speaker 02: Unfortunately, we cannot provide responses from individuals or entities simply ignoring us—but we could do this before taking the next step.

00:45:55 Speaker 02: I don't see that as a threat to our timeline; I don't think so—and yes,

00:46:00 Speaker 02: we could probably accomplish it just prior to moving forward with Member Krohn regarding the contract work by Neptune and how that impacts things?

00:46:13 Speaker 02: For the most part, they pretty much walked away from their responsibilities on this project.

00:46:20 Speaker 05: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

00:46:22 Speaker 02: Yes—they've completed their active phase and are now in a warranty period for a couple of months.

00:46:27 Speaker 02: I think it's more than that.

00:46:28 Speaker 02: But really, if something is going to happen, like a leak due to improper installation process defect or something that would typically show up within a couple of months of installation.

00:46:42 Speaker 02: So they're still there as a warranty entity, but we would be taking on the work either with our staff or we would have to contract a plumber for the remaining few.

00:46:59 Speaker 02: Okay.

00:46:59 Speaker 02: Thanks, Member Cron.

00:47:02 Speaker 02: Thank you, Miss.

00:47:02 Speaker 02: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

00:47:03 Speaker 02: Just the issue about shutting off the water.

00:47:07 Speaker 02: So that's really the hammer, right?

00:47:09 Speaker 02: So you've got the city spent how much?

00:47:11 Speaker 02: Three million dollars on this project, and the city is going to continue to incur metre reading charges because a few people have decided that no, they don't want a metre in their home.

00:47:21 Speaker 10: So if this was Hydro, sorry, if this was another large utility, the large utility would probably just shut off your service.

00:47:29 Speaker 10: Is what I would guess now?

00:47:32 Speaker 10: That sounds very harsh, and I understand that.

00:47:36 Speaker 10: But you know, like the city has a responsibility to all the ratepayers in the city, and...

00:47:43 Speaker 10: I could see some of these people who don't want their metre checked have fiddled with their metre first; is their metre bypassed so that's one thing?

00:47:51 Speaker 10: So there's a legality issue there, not accusing anyone.

00:47:56 Speaker 10: The second issue is that without an active metre working, and if their metre is bypassed,

00:48:06 Speaker 10: then they're using water in a way where somebody with a metre that's actually metreing isn't being able to because when they use water, they get charged for it.

00:48:14 Speaker 10: So like I have no issues with this.

00:48:18 Speaker 10: Okay?

00:48:20 Speaker 10: Effective July 1st, if you continue to refuse by December 31st, two thousand twenty-six, your water will be shut off.

00:48:28 Speaker 10: Period.

00:48:29 Speaker 10: And that gives people six months after this date to decide whether or not they want a metre in their home or not.

00:48:36 Speaker 10: But once again, that's harsh, and I wouldn't get the phone calls from that.

00:48:40 Speaker 10: So anyways, so those are...

00:48:43 Speaker 10: That's just my two cents, and it is trying to support staff when you know; it's those programmemememes.

00:48:51 Speaker 10: It's anything in life: it's that four-to-five-per-cent kind of thing that throws a monkey wrench into everything.

00:48:57 Speaker 10: But I would fully heartedly support an actual service interruption in order for this programmemememe to be completed.

00:49:07 Speaker 10: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

00:49:11 Speaker 10: Okay, thank you very much for that.

00:49:13 Speaker 01: Just before I go back to Councillor Hamley, then Councillor Merton: quick question for you, Director.

00:49:19 Speaker 01: Are you able to split between what is homeowner versus building owner in terms of that outstanding allotment of properties which we need to bring into compliance?

00:49:33 Speaker 01: It's our equipment.

00:49:37 Speaker 01: I think if I understand your question correctly, we do know which accounts are held by a tenant and which ones are held by the property owner because as we were developing the Water Management Bylaw,

00:49:52 Speaker 02: we were looking...

00:49:53 Speaker 02: Law;

00:49:53 Speaker 02: we were looking to tighten those requirements up with setting up water accounts that they are required to either be in the name of the actual property owner or they have to sign a paper saying

00:50:07 Speaker 02: that they acknowledge there is a tenant.

00:50:10 Speaker 02: Because otherwise we can't transfer the water arrears like if they don't pay their bill onto the taxes.

00:50:20 Speaker 02: So that's the other benefit to going this way with these additional charges: that if they refuse to pay, those just get transferred onto the taxes.

00:50:30 Speaker 02: The city is going to get its money one way or another.

00:50:38 Speaker 02: That... yeah sorry; that's the end of that comment.

00:50:42 Speaker 02: Yeah but so we don't—we're not acutely aware that two hundred of those three hundred and sixty-six are just property owners versus homeownership?

00:50:54 Speaker 05: No, I don't have that statistic in front of me right now.

00:50:56 Speaker 02: We could probably generate that, but I don't have it.

00:51:00 Speaker 02: I'll go to Councillor Hamlin next.

00:51:03 Speaker 02: I will move the recommendation, but I would add a sixth point which is direct staff to report back in late 2026.

00:51:11 Speaker 07: And I'm doing that just because of what Member Cron said.

00:51:15 Speaker 07: I think that's a pretty valid point, but I think that's probably... a next step.

00:51:23 Speaker 07: Okay, thank you Councillor Merton.

00:51:25 Speaker 07: Go ahead through you Chair.

00:51:30 Speaker 07: In response to the conversation around the table: yes we want to support staff; this is an important initiative in a variety of ways.

00:51:41 Speaker 04: We also want to recognize that we don't want the tax—we don't want the general taxpayer base to have to subsidize those who are not contributing.

00:51:55 Speaker 04: That's not equitable, it's not accurate resource utilization.

00:52:02 Speaker 04: So in the report there is reference to legal advice and the relationship to the Municipal Act.

00:52:12 Speaker 04: Prior to any service discontinuation or continuation I would appreciate legal advice on where we stand in relation to the Municipal Act and our ability or inability to do that.

00:52:29 Speaker 04: I understand Member Krohn's concepts and his perspective; I tend to have a slightly different one,

00:52:38 Speaker 04: and would appreciate being sure you know just as we say housing is a human right access to water is too but we all need to pay for service delivery so it is a balance.

00:52:53 Speaker 04: I would request...

00:52:55 Speaker 04: I'm not sure that's part of the motion or if it can be just a standalone request?

00:53:02 Speaker 04: Go to Councillor Hamley, but he at this time only asking for a report back on it; but he can clarify.

00:53:10 Speaker 01: Go ahead and I mean presumably we would have talked to lawyers at some point along the way.

00:53:22 Speaker 01: Okay.

00:53:23 Speaker 01: I just said I have no problem with the administration fee.

00:53:31 Speaker 01: I did that kind of work 25 years ago and for some utilities,

00:53:35 Speaker 01: what we called them drive reads were seven dollars per... 25 years ago five years ago like this gets expensive real quick so there's no way the general taxpayer water user should have to pick up

00:53:48 Speaker 01: the tab for people who are negligent and just not willing to comply or let previously Neptune and/or city staff into the property to replace City of Owen Sound equipment.

00:54:03 Speaker 01: My only concern is any properties if there's some individual...

00:54:09 Speaker 01: Some individuals who are not so much concerned with this project residents have pretty good protections under the Human Rights Code but my only concern would be tenants mainly residential or commercial who would just see

00:54:31 Speaker 01: these extra costs passed on and no action taken because you've got a landlord that just hasn't cared to this point and there's just not a stick yet to make them care in the future if

00:54:47 Speaker 01: they're able to just pass the charges along.

00:54:51 Speaker 01: I'm not sure if you have a comment to that but I'll give you a chance?

00:54:54 Speaker 01: Yeah thank you Mr Chair yeah that has come up once or twice throughout the programmemememe too with tenants who have expressed concern at that time are...

00:55:07 Speaker 02: Our implication was that we were going to shut off water for noncompliance and a tenant can provide permission but we can't speak to what kind of agreements there may be between the landlord and the

00:55:26 Speaker 02: tenant on their own.

00:55:28 Speaker 02: As far as like we're concerned the city the tenant can let the city in to do the work especially if they're the ones that are paying the bill I know that there are some landlords

00:55:42 Speaker 02: though I think that would prefer that their tenants not have that level of authority and I guess that's when it gets difficult.

00:55:54 Speaker 02: I think those would probably be individual cases and we would encourage those people I think to contact our office and see how we can negotiate those; and by negotiate I mean manage those?

00:56:07 Speaker 02: Okay thank you very much for that response.

00:56:08 Speaker 02: I think that's encouraging to hear there's a little bit more leeway there to help encourage us having our machinery changed in the face of challenge.

00:56:23 Speaker 05: Any further questions?

00:56:24 Speaker 05: There is a motion on the floor at this time not seeing any all those in favour and those opposed;

00:56:35 Speaker 05: that carries with one opposed thank you very much for another thorough report back on this large undertaking of the water metre replacement and where we're sitting at so at this time we have no further

00:56:51 Speaker 05: reports before us.

00:56:53 Speaker 05: We've got no matters postponed we've got no motions for which notice was previously given we have no correspondence items being presented for information discussion of additional business there is none are there any notices of

00:57:06 Speaker 05: motion this evening not seeing any and I would just note that it's a little unusual but our meeting in January is the fourth Thursday in January as opposed to the third so if you haven't

00:57:19 Speaker 05: got that in your calendar yet just make that little note.

00:57:23 Speaker 05: I think that's the 22nd?

00:57:24 Speaker 05: Yeah okay otherwise at this time wish everyone a Merry Christmas and a Happy Holiday Season thank you for all your work in two thousand twenty-five and have a happy new year we'll see everyone in

00:57:38 Speaker 05: January and we are adjourned at six twenty