Owen Sound Committee - Service Review Implementation Ad Hoc Meeting Transcript — September 10, 2025

00:00:25 Speaker 01: We'll call this meeting to order.

00:00:27 Speaker 01: Are there any additional business items from anybody?

00:00:31 Speaker 01: Looking all the way around the circle and seeing all heads going sideways, not up and down.

00:00:35 Speaker 01: Declarations of interests.

00:00:38 Speaker 01: Seeing nobody.

00:00:40 Speaker 01: Confirmation of minutes.

00:00:42 Speaker 01: So three sets there.

00:00:45 Speaker 02: Marion, I'll move the minutes of the service review for July ninth, the closed service review for July ninth, and the service review ad hoc on July 16.

00:00:59 Speaker 02: Good, thank you.

00:01:00 Speaker 02: Any questions?

00:01:02 Speaker 02: All in favour?

00:01:03 Speaker 01: That's carried.

00:01:04 Speaker 01: And it seems to me that we had two of those because we started a meeting and ran out of time and came back.

00:01:08 Speaker 01: Yep.

00:01:10 Speaker 01: Okay.

00:01:11 Speaker 01: Number five, no deputations or presentations.

00:01:14 Speaker 01: Number six, public forum.

00:01:16 Speaker 01: There's nobody in the room to ask us any questions.

00:01:20 Speaker 01: At seven, we have no correspondence items being presented for consideration.

00:01:25 Speaker 01: So down to eight A. So down to 8A, which is a report from the Director of Corporate Services with regard to current assessment and M365 optimization roadmap.

00:01:40 Speaker 03: Thank you, Your Worship.

00:01:41 Speaker 03: I apologize ahead.

00:01:43 Speaker 03: I wrote this report a couple months ago, so if it feels like I'm bumbling through it, I'm just sort of refreshing myself as I go through.

00:01:49 Speaker 03: This report isn't a direct service review project, but it certainly is.

00:01:54 Speaker 03: But it certainly has an impact on service review projects, and the whole initiative falls well under the intent of service review, looking for efficiencies, utilising our software in a better way,

00:02:09 Speaker 03: and really just that constant improvement mentality.

00:02:14 Speaker 03: So, as this council is aware, we implemented SharePoint around the time that we went into the COVID pandemic, and that was moving our network drives from individual sort of siloed drives into SharePoint,

00:02:32 Speaker 03: which is a document retention platform that would theoretically allow us to find things better and share documents better rather than having multiple things in multiple places.

00:02:44 Speaker 03: I'd also point out that SharePoint is more than just a document management system; it is sort of a platform that links in many of our other applications.

00:02:54 Speaker 03: So Teams is the first one that comes to mind, but there's lots of different applications that we use through SharePoint.

00:03:03 Speaker 03: So we went through that implementation back then, and as expected, I don't want to imply that there's anything wrong with SharePoint or that there's anything wrong with the work that has been done to date.

00:03:17 Speaker 03: But as expected, as we've been using the platform for three years, there have been some hiccups and some roadblocks.

00:03:24 Speaker 03: And if we could go back today, with the knowledge that we have now and understanding how we use it now, and do it again,

00:03:31 Speaker 03: we probably would have set things up a little bit differently back in 2020.

00:03:35 Speaker 03: So acknowledging that people are still having some issues with searching and finding documents, the consistency with how we name things, taking advantage of the opportunity to use metadata,

00:03:46 Speaker 03: which is basically just attaching other descriptors to your files in order to find them.

00:03:50 Speaker 03: For example, the year that the file relates to, or the main theme or the main topic.

00:03:56 Speaker 03: So this came up at a SLT meeting, funneled up through staff.

00:04:02 Speaker 03: Just some of the frustrations that staff were having, and that triggered us as a group that originally implemented SharePoint to go back and revisit.

00:04:10 Speaker 03: Okay, what can we do to sort of address some of these challenges?

00:04:14 Speaker 03: And what we sort of coined it was Beyond Share or SharePoint Two Zero, and 2.0, and we worked with StoneShare, which is a company that works with SharePoint, and did our implementation for us.

00:04:26 Speaker 03: And they proposed, once they heard what the issues that we were having, sort of a two-phase project.

00:04:31 Speaker 03: The first phase was a sort of state assessment.

00:04:34 Speaker 03: So they came in and had meetings with staff.

00:04:36 Speaker 03: That is the phase that has currently been complete and is reported back to us in the attached PowerPoint.

00:04:42 Speaker 03: I have no intent of walking through the PowerPoint today.

00:04:45 Speaker 03: That's one hundred percent.

00:04:45 Speaker 03: Today, that's a hundred percent just for your information.

00:04:47 Speaker 03: If you wanted to see what they reported back, so they did this sort of current state assessment, and they identified a few gaps,

00:04:57 Speaker 03: and then so the next phase will be these sort of individual projects addressing some of those significant gaps, and that phase will happen over 2026 and 2027.

00:05:08 Speaker 03: So really, the report here is just to keep you informed of this project, since it wasn't necessarily on your radar,

00:05:15 Speaker 03: but it does indirectly inform or impact a lot of the service review projects that we're doing, and just the way we do our business day to day.

00:05:23 Speaker 03: And I'm happy to take any questions.

00:05:28 Speaker 02: Through you, Your Worship, can I just ask you to highlight the financial impacts on this?

00:05:37 Speaker 03: Certainly, and I'll have to scroll down to remind myself.

00:05:41 Speaker 03: So the cost of the recommended phase two projects will be between forty and one hundred thousand dollars.

00:05:48 Speaker 03: These costs are already in the sort of software transformation budget that's in our capital, so that's not additional funds that we're looking for.

00:05:56 Speaker 03: We're going to use the funds that we have.

00:05:58 Speaker 03: One of the things that we'll note here is that with the implementation of Microsoft Purview, we're able to decommission our current third-party records management platform, which I believe is called Gimmel,

00:06:09 Speaker 03: and that will save us forty-five thousand dollars a year.

00:06:11 Speaker 03: So once you factor those savings in, the payback period of this total phase two implementation is two and a half years.

00:06:18 Speaker 03: We'll have saved enough from decommissioning that piece of software to recover the cost that we're putting into these enhancements.

00:06:31 Speaker 04: Just so I'm understanding, is SharePoint not a Microsoft system?

00:06:35 Speaker 04: Like it's not tied to the Microsoft 365, or it is?

00:06:41 Speaker 03: SharePoint and Microsoft 365—they are a product of Microsoft.

00:06:46 Speaker 03: Yes.

00:06:49 Speaker 03: Okay, thank you.

00:06:51 Speaker 05: So I'm just trying to understand why we were using a third-party system if we had the Microsoft Purview as part of that the whole time.

00:06:58 Speaker 05: Why did we get a third party, or was that already in place before we moved to SharePoint?

00:07:05 Speaker 03: The software that we used for document retention and disposal is a bit over my head.

00:07:11 Speaker 03: I'll be honest, but I believe that decision was made ahead of understanding what was available within the SharePoint platform.

00:07:19 Speaker 03: Okay, I'm happy to move the recommendation.

00:07:22 Speaker 06: Thank you, Kate.

00:07:23 Speaker 06: Question: Forty-five thousand to one hundred thousand is a big, relatively a big variable.

00:07:30 Speaker 06: What explains that?

00:07:34 Speaker 03: The difference will be how much we're able to do with our own staff versus how much we need support with through OSHaRE as a contract support.

00:07:46 Speaker 02: So the difference is that over the term or initially, or just like you said, 2026, 2027.

00:07:54 Speaker 02: Is that over the term of that the dollars?

00:08:00 Speaker 07: Okay, so I'm going to call the question on favour.

00:08:03 Speaker 07: That's carried.

00:08:04 Speaker 07: I think Kate, Tim, everybody.

00:08:06 Speaker 07: What excites me is that it wasn't working, so you relooked at it, didn't dig in heels, which sometimes happens in big corporations, and went back and figured out how to make it work better.

00:08:17 Speaker 07: So that's kind of why we're doing the service review, and that's great.

00:08:21 Speaker 07: So thanks.

00:08:25 Speaker 07: Next, 9A, postponed from Brianna provisions for bylaw services staffing.

00:08:33 Speaker 07: Thank you, Your Worship.

00:08:40 Speaker 07: I'll just oh, there's the PowerPoint up on your screen, and I'll just make sure I can do it.

00:08:45 Speaker 07: Perfect.

00:08:47 Speaker 08: So, through Your Worship, Service Review Project One C Five is to analyse moving from a compliance model to a proactive approach with a focus on efficiencies, dollar savings, and employee impact.

00:08:58 Speaker 08: At the July 20 or July 16 Service Review Committee meeting, staff presented a report, and committee approved some of the staff recommendations, but requested further information on the new staffing positions proposed in the report.

00:09:10 Speaker 08: The purpose of this staff report is to provide further information on the staffing positions, and I've put together a couple of slides to highlight the report and its recommendation.

00:09:21 Speaker 08: The report provides information on various positions and the benefits they will bring to the community.

00:09:26 Speaker 08: The first position is a bylaw enforcement supervisor.

00:09:29 Speaker 08: By adding a supervisor position, it will provide more time to officers for enforcement.

00:09:35 Speaker 08: The city's most senior bylaw officer currently performs many administrative duties, limiting their capacity to respond to violations and conduct proactive patrols.

00:09:44 Speaker 08: Introducing a bylaw supervisor would allow the officer to redirect 10 to 15 hours per week back to active enforcement duties.

00:09:52 Speaker 08: The bylaw enforcement division has experienced turnover of more than one officer per year in the last eight years.

00:09:59 Speaker 08: When a new officer starts or a student starts, the existing officer is responsible for training and continuing to respond to service requests.

00:10:07 Speaker 08: During this time, the overall division capacity is reduced to an estimated 65 percent.

00:10:13 Speaker 08: The supervisor will compile materials to standardize and streamline the training process, ensure that officers are trained to a satisfactory level within an established timeline.

00:10:22 Speaker 08: With improvements to training materials and having the supervisor lead training, it is anticipated that this will add 80 hours per year back to active enforcement duties.

00:10:32 Speaker 08: The supervisor will be appointed as a BIA officer and be able to support officers on complex files during periods of staff turnover, or where call volume exceeds the capacity of officers.

00:10:44 Speaker 08: Adding a supervisor who is a trained enforcement officer will strengthen oversight and enhance day-to-day direction.

00:10:50 Speaker 08: The supervisor will provide guidance on prioritizing service requests and managing officer workloads, ensure responses align with city policies and procedures, monitor court proceedings and coordinate with the prosecutor, oversee timely follow-up on service requests,

00:11:05 Speaker 08: monitor compliance rates, and ensure complainants are informed of the outcome of their concerns.

00:11:11 Speaker 08: The supervisor will better support the long-term planning and goals of the organisation.

00:11:15 Speaker 08: Areas of focus will include implementation of a scheduled review framework for regulatory bylaws, researching, proposing, and implementing new regulatory bylaws, monitoring problem areas and presenting options for improvement to council.

00:11:29 Speaker 08: Undertake a review of parking enforcement and licensing programmememes to find efficiencies, dollar savings, and revenue.

00:11:37 Speaker 08: The bylaw supervisor will have the ability to improve education and awareness of city bylaws, and would be responsible for ensuring the website is up to date, issuing media releases and social media posts,

00:11:49 Speaker 08: notifying the public of enforcement actions, initiating the creation of pamphlets and guides, assisting with communication plans for new or updated bylaws, and attending open houses and community meetings.

00:12:01 Speaker 08: The supervisor will coordinate with community partners such as Grey County Housing, Police Services, Fire Services to improve information sharing and efficiency in responses and community safety.

00:12:12 Speaker 08: Adding a supervisor will provide overall operational improvements and will allow bylaw officers to dedicate more time to proactive enforcement.

00:12:23 Speaker 08: Turning now to the full-time bylaw enforcement officer position, with the addition of a third officer, this would provide the division with the ability to expand capacity and improve the response and service levels,

00:12:35 Speaker 08: and provide proactive enforcement in the River District.

00:12:38 Speaker 08: We are also proposing the creation of a dedicated mobile device that businesses, residents, and visitors can contact for immediate response.

00:12:47 Speaker 08: An additional officer will also provide support during periods of turnover or vacation.

00:12:51 Speaker 08: It will increase visibility and presence in the community, and they will be able to respond to all types of calls.

00:12:57 Speaker 08: The report notes that should council support the value of a permanent officer, but are concerned about the financial impact.

00:13:04 Speaker 08: An alternative option would be to establish a permanent part-time officer position that would work 24 hours per week at a cost of $65,000.

00:13:11 Speaker 08: A part-time officer would offer the flexibility to respond to a broad range of bylaw matters while reducing, while working reduced hours.

00:13:24 Speaker 08: Another option being presented to council is the addition of bylaw students to support the division from May to August.

00:13:30 Speaker 08: This option is only feasible if a bylaw supervisor is added.

00:13:35 Speaker 08: Bylaw students will enforce the yard maintenance bylaw and proactively enforce repeat offenders.

00:13:41 Speaker 08: They would provide administrative and customer service support, be a uniform presence in the River District, with a focus on education.

00:13:48 Speaker 08: They would conduct patrols of city parks and high traffic areas, and participate in waste management audits.

00:13:54 Speaker 08: With more students, additional audits will be possible.

00:13:58 Speaker 08: Adding students is a cost-effective alternative, but they do not have the training or experience to respond to more serious or hazardous concerns.

00:14:05 Speaker 08: Students do not require a permanent budget commitment, giving the city a flexible alternative.

00:14:13 Speaker 08: This slide depicts the options presented in the staff report and the cost implications.

00:14:18 Speaker 08: The costs provided include wages, benefits, uniform, and technological requirements.

00:14:23 Speaker 08: Adding a bylaw enforcement supervisor will provide the greatest benefit to both the division and the city as a whole.

00:14:29 Speaker 08: With the increased time available to officers, all options provide for some level of dedicated foot patrols and proactive enforcement in the River District.

00:14:37 Speaker 08: While adding students is preferable from a cost perspective, the addition of a full-time officer will provide consistent year-round service.

00:14:43 Speaker 08: Year-round service reduces the time and resources spent on recruiting and training students, supports continuity in bylaw enforcement practices,

00:14:51 Speaker 08: and improves the ability to respond to complex or escalating issues that may be beyond the capacity of students.

00:14:58 Speaker 08: The recommendation in this report is that committee recommends that City Council direct staff to include a bylaw enforcement supervisor and a bylaw enforcement officer in the mayor's 2026 budget for consideration by the mayor.

00:15:12 Speaker 08: With that, I'm happy to take any questions you may have.

00:15:23 Speaker 02: Thank you.

00:15:24 Speaker 02: Can you tell me what the hours of the part-time individual would be, and is this year-round?

00:15:35 Speaker 08: Through your worship, to Councillor Koepke, at this time we were thinking it could be flexible.

00:15:41 Speaker 08: We would work with the individual.

00:15:43 Speaker 08: It might be flexible, like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday, Friday, Saturday.

00:15:48 Speaker 08: They might move around, but certainly it would be three days a week, and it would be all year round.

00:15:55 Speaker 02: But would they be daytime hours, or some go into the evening?

00:16:02 Speaker 08: Through your worship, we right now our hours are daytime.

00:16:08 Speaker 08: But when we, if we have a supervisor in place, they could certainly look at moving those hours around depending on capacity.

00:16:19 Speaker 02: And it could also depend on the individual hired.

00:16:23 Speaker 02: Possibly they have another job, and this is an additional after-hours type job.

00:16:28 Speaker 02: And because I know there are calls after hours, and those calls are taken by police.

00:16:35 Speaker 02: Is that correct?

00:16:36 Speaker 02: And are they handled the same way?

00:16:41 Speaker 08: Through your worship, yes, police do respond to after-hour calls.

00:16:45 Speaker 08: In the previous report, it did show that there aren't a huge amount of calls that are occurring after hours that need to be addressed immediately.

00:16:53 Speaker 08: Typically, police will direct them to contact bylaw the following day.

00:17:02 Speaker 09: First question is, what do we pay for annually for contract parking enforcement, because the last report had comparators that were all internalized for parking enforcement and were your contract.

00:17:16 Speaker 09: So that's my first question.

00:17:25 Speaker 03: Through your worship, our budget for the contract for parking enforcement is approximately fifty thousand in 2026.

00:17:34 Speaker 03: Okay.

00:17:35 Speaker 09: Next question is: Earlier this year, the police board provided some correspondence about bylaw enforcement in the downtown and River District.

00:17:50 Speaker 09: That I had a little bit of difficulty with because after four-thirty, when we have our bylaw services stop for the day or for the weekends, police fulfil that role.

00:18:04 Speaker 09: So I had some difficulty with some of the direction or intent in their correspondence.

00:18:12 Speaker 09: Well, scale up your bylaw.

00:18:14 Speaker 09: However, if police have the ability to do certain work after our staff go home or on weekends,

00:18:21 Speaker 09: then I kind of wondered why you wouldn't just exercise that same authority if you're walking past some criminal activity Monday to Friday, eight-thirty to four-thirty.

00:18:32 Speaker 09: So I'm just wondering: is there a little bit of response to those concerns?

00:18:38 Speaker 09: Can we work more collegially with police in terms of?

00:18:42 Speaker 09: I'm just afraid of some of the duplication that could occur here.

00:18:46 Speaker 09: When I'm reading through this, several years ago we undertook a partnership with the River District.

00:18:52 Speaker 09: We internalized some of those roles because we had capacity internally.

00:18:58 Speaker 09: There's no other way to put that.

00:18:59 Speaker 09: We had the ability to absorb some of that, so we did.

00:19:04 Speaker 09: The River District has their own employee now.

00:19:09 Speaker 09: Additional walking patrols, police are doing it.

00:19:14 Speaker 09: Parking attendant is doing it.

00:19:16 Speaker 09: How many people do we need walking the same sidewalk?

00:19:19 Speaker 09: I guess is what I'm coming to, and at what cost?

00:19:22 Speaker 09: And are there any other internal resources?

00:19:26 Speaker 09: There was some conversation in this report about interacting with businesses more so in the downtown, and certainly there's a requirement with some of the properties.

00:19:42 Speaker 09: But is that a rule?

00:19:43 Speaker 09: Then again, that the River District has an employee that we can engage better and utilise more so than looking at a secondary resource here.

00:19:53 Speaker 09: Like I'm, I, I can be in support of the supervisor at this time for consideration by council.

00:20:01 Speaker 09: I think the numbers demonstrate that the volume of calls is instrumentally higher since 2018.

00:20:08 Speaker 09: The inquiries have gone way down, but still there's an increase, and we are certainly far below a lot of the comparators.

00:20:16 Speaker 09: But they are internalized parking, and we have some of these rules where I just wonder how many people are walking the same sidewalk, where we could be more efficient in our resources.

00:20:31 Speaker 06: Just for Brand as a consultant, there I will note that these are bylaw enforcement officers, so therefore they're not doing criminal charges, right?

00:20:39 Speaker 06: That's for police.

00:20:41 Speaker 06: Under the Community Safety and Police Act, whatever the new act is, it's very clear in there that the police board is responsible for the safety of the community, and it's not bylaw enforcement as such,

00:20:56 Speaker 06: but anyway, Briana was just consulting.

00:20:59 Speaker 06: I'll go back.

00:21:00 Speaker 10: Thank you, Mayor.

00:21:01 Speaker 10: Through you to Deputy Mayor Greig.

00:21:03 Speaker 10: All very good questions.

00:21:07 Speaker 10: From the fact of how many people are walking the sidewalks, and we don't know.

00:21:11 Speaker 10: There could be an opportunity that moving forward with the option that's recommended, the supervisor will evaluate the future need of the parking contract with having our own bylaw officers walking,

00:21:26 Speaker 10: let's just call it the beat.

00:21:28 Speaker 10: We know what's we know that the current boots on the street or boots on the ground aren't working.

00:21:35 Speaker 10: It doesn't take much.

00:21:36 Speaker 10: We hear it every day from business owners around the River District.

00:21:41 Speaker 10: Where do we call?

00:21:42 Speaker 10: There are people loitering out in front of benches because there aren't boots on the street.

00:21:47 Speaker 10: Police Services does provide foot patrol.

00:21:50 Speaker 10: I'm not certain of when or where.

00:21:52 Speaker 10: It's very randomized; we have no insight or oversight of that boots on the ground through police.

00:21:59 Speaker 10: We can recommend or ask for them to report into the River District Board that they've conducted X amount of hours of foot patrol, but again, I don't know when or where that's happening.

00:22:11 Speaker 10: We have no clear insight to their operational elements of the Police Services, whereas this option that we're presenting today gives us full oversight.

00:22:19 Speaker 10: Gives us full oversight and insight of where and what's going on in the River District from an enforcement perspective.

00:22:27 Speaker 10: A key element in this also is, and maybe slightly overlooked, is the technology and the mobile device aspect.

00:22:34 Speaker 10: As we spoke about bringing this option to committee, having a bylaw officer and perhaps a student or two officers, whatever that case might be, on the foot patrol within the River District,

00:22:46 Speaker 10: and having a dedicated what's called a cell phone.

00:22:48 Speaker 10: It's called a cell phone, and that number then is publicized to all business owners.

00:22:53 Speaker 10: So when they have an issue, it's not who do I call, or I'm calling the front counter at City Hall, or I'm calling a non-emergency police number,

00:23:02 Speaker 10: in the hopes that somebody will be there within half a day, maybe sometimes an hour.

00:23:09 Speaker 10: I don't know.

00:23:10 Speaker 10: Hopefully that you know they're all wanting somebody there within five or ten minutes because that's where the issue is.

00:23:15 Speaker 10: Having our own bylaw officers in the River District on this patrol with a mobile device that business owners are very aware of, it'll ring to the hip of that officer,

00:23:28 Speaker 10: of which they can say we'll be there within five minutes.

00:23:30 Speaker 10: Where that one officer can leave, and immediately go tend to the issue, whether it's loitering, whether it's somebody you know somebody living rough or unhoused and asleep or stooped out,

00:23:42 Speaker 10: or there's drug use going on.

00:23:44 Speaker 10: It also creates a point of contact not only for business owners but a point of contact back into our social service providers.

00:23:52 Speaker 10: So this officer, this type of setup operational model that we're proposing would allow then that one officer to have a streamlined relationship with the SOS team and Police Services,

00:24:07 Speaker 10: etc. So they will know who to call immediately to say, depending on the situation.

00:24:11 Speaker 10: So if it's somebody engaged in drug use or an illegal activity, they'll have a person at Police Services they can connect into.

00:24:19 Speaker 10: If it's somebody needing help because they're unhoused, they'll know exactly who to call and have that proper sort of concierge service happen.

00:24:30 Speaker 10: So it's not a business owner, it's not somebody trying to figure out the system, so to speak.

00:24:35 Speaker 10: We hear a lot about we don't know who to call, we can't figure out the system.

00:24:38 Speaker 10: When we call somebody, it's hours later.

00:24:40 Speaker 10: This would give immediate response.

00:24:43 Speaker 10: One of the biggest issues we're hearing too is the loitering issue on city benches.

00:24:47 Speaker 10: In the downtown, benches are there for tourists, for shoppers, for families.

00:24:52 Speaker 10: They want to take that five or ten minute rest and enjoy the experience.

00:24:56 Speaker 10: But people are sitting out there and using it as a backyard and parked on certain benches for up to half a day.

00:25:03 Speaker 10: Having boots on the street that we have full oversight over, a business owner could call that person immediately, or just if the beat time is a thirty-minute walk, they'll know: Hey,

00:25:15 Speaker 10: I was back past this location thirty minutes earlier.

00:25:18 Speaker 10: We have a loitering issue.

00:25:19 Speaker 10: They can move people along and say, "I was just here thirty minutes ago.

00:25:23 Speaker 10: You guys are still here.

00:25:24 Speaker 10: I need to ask for you guys to move along."

00:25:26 Speaker 10: And have some dedicated uniform presence on the street.

00:25:31 Speaker 10: So that's, I think, part of maybe more answer than what you are looking for, Deputy Mayor.

00:25:36 Speaker 10: Like again, from the duplication aspect, I don't know how much duplication there is with Police Services.

00:25:42 Speaker 10: Bottom line, because we have no insight or oversight of their operational model.

00:25:46 Speaker 10: If there are more pressing needs in the city, those boots on the ground go to the more pressing needs, and everything is ranked on a priority: here's a priority one through a priority six,

00:25:58 Speaker 10: and six is the lowest.

00:26:00 Speaker 10: And it's we have a loitering issue or somebody on the downtown that's probably going to get scheduled in as a five or a six because there's something else,

00:26:07 Speaker 10: a priority one or two issue happening somewhere else in the city because they have operational needs.

00:26:12 Speaker 10: My internal management sense is saying when we get to budget this year, Police Services will be seeking dollars for more boots on the ground in the River District,

00:26:22 Speaker 10: and they'll say it's part of the community safety aspect because 100% Police Services provides community safety.

00:26:30 Speaker 10: But we'll be writing a check to police services and having no insight or oversight of the operational model,

00:26:36 Speaker 10: or we can attempt to take this on ourselves through some additional bylaw and bylaw enforcement and have oversight and have those folks where we can see exactly what's going on and meet the needs of

00:26:49 Speaker 10: the River District in a little bit more clear way.

00:26:52 Speaker 10: It's not going to avoid that if there's illegal activity; a bylaw officer will have to call police services to come and tend to that.

00:27:00 Speaker 10: But at least it's being actioned immediately, and we know exactly what's going on.

00:27:08 Speaker 10: So that's part of the question.

00:27:10 Speaker 10: And back to the story of the parking, the parking services.

00:27:13 Speaker 10: We are in a contract with a third party to provide that.

00:27:16 Speaker 10: But I think one of the things that, as I was talking with the Clerk about, is the Supervisor will look at that contract.

00:27:24 Speaker 10: I think it's probably good through 2026.

00:27:28 Speaker 10: So they'll take some time to look at that and say, "Hey, if we've got two people, whether it's a student and an officer, two officers.

00:27:33 Speaker 10: A student and officer, two officers on that patrol beat, so to speak, in the River District, that they could look at taking over the parking enforcement aspect."

00:27:47 Speaker 11: Thank you.

00:27:48 Speaker 11: I appreciate that response.

00:27:49 Speaker 11: I'm just a little...

00:27:50 Speaker 11: You mentioned drug use as one of the activities, and I'm just reluctant to be convinced that bylaw officers are going to engage in what is effectively criminal activity.

00:28:03 Speaker 11: Like the Mayor stated?

00:28:05 Speaker 11: There's a difference.

00:28:08 Speaker 11: Recently, I had someone pass along to me there was so many individuals one afternoon in Carnelane that they witnessed two officers show up, and frankly, got back in their vehicle and drove away.

00:28:21 Speaker 11: And this individual agreed with their actions.

00:28:26 Speaker 11: Basically, so my... so many people there, it was a very intimidating scene, and they were literally in agreement with the officers not engaging with the crowd and actually getting in their vehicle and driving away.

00:28:39 Speaker 11: It's instances like that.

00:28:41 Speaker 11: It's loitering, but there's certainly no if the police aren't going to intervene, a bylaw officer is certainly not going to engage in that environment.

00:28:51 Speaker 11: So, I just have some reluctance and some of the extra resources at this time.

00:28:57 Speaker 11: True, Mayor.

00:28:59 Speaker 10: Through Mayor, yeah, excellent note on that, and I agree, and I think part of the issue with this, as we talk about it at a staff level,

00:29:07 Speaker 10: is the randomized aspect of having people downtown and boots on the street.

00:29:13 Speaker 10: It's... it's boots are on the street when the call is made and they show up, but having bylaw officers patrolling the River District and going through Carney's Lane once every 30 minutes or less,

00:29:25 Speaker 10: I think starts to set a standard for people that might be using or in those areas doing things they shouldn't be doing.

00:29:35 Speaker 10: Is it going to stop it 100%?

00:29:37 Speaker 10: No. It's the same with our video cameras that we put up downtown.

00:29:41 Speaker 10: As we said, putting those up, they are a tool for law enforcement to use.

00:29:46 Speaker 10: But it may discourage some criminal activity, but it's not going to stop criminal activity.

00:29:53 Speaker 10: And I think having a dedicated patrol of bylaw officers within the River District starts to set a precedent, not just with the business owners,

00:30:05 Speaker 10: but those that might be in the area doing things they shouldn't be doing.

00:30:09 Speaker 10: The business owners, I think, will feel good saying, "Hey, there's John, there's Jane.

00:30:13 Speaker 10: I know those people.

00:30:14 Speaker 10: I see them every 30 minutes or less walking by my front store.

00:30:18 Speaker 10: I know I can tap on their shoulder and say, 'Here's an issue we experienced last night on our loading dock.

00:30:22 Speaker 10: Here's this.

00:30:23 Speaker 10: Can you keep an eye out for it?'"

00:30:25 Speaker 10: We can log that, and then they can make note of it and do a walk-by.

00:30:29 Speaker 10: But right now, everything we're doing in the River District is completely randomized.

00:30:35 Speaker 10: It's based on a complaint basis.

00:30:38 Speaker 10: Unless there's a call, we don't have that visual presence in our downtown, and I think that's sorely needed.

00:30:49 Speaker 10: Thank you, through you, Chair.

00:30:52 Speaker 05: As one of the business owners who calls on the regular, I complain about people loitering behind my business.

00:30:59 Speaker 05: I want to believe that having more boots on the ground will make a difference.

00:31:03 Speaker 05: I'm not entirely sure.

00:31:05 Speaker 05: I've been standing with police officers and witnessed these people continue to do drugs and things right in front of police officers.

00:31:14 Speaker 05: I really don't think that they care.

00:31:16 Speaker 05: So I don't know how much of a difference it is.

00:31:19 Speaker 05: But, as a business owner,

00:31:20 Speaker 05: I would appreciate having more boots on the ground and knowing that there is a dedicated person that I can call when these people are in the area of my business because they do need to

00:31:31 Speaker 05: be moved along;

00:31:32 Speaker 05: their detriment.

00:31:35 Speaker 05: With regard to the cost, I struggle a lot with adding to the City budget.

00:31:41 Speaker 05: So, for me, when something like this is presented to committee or council, I'd like if staff could be proactive in the financial aspect and identify the financial areas that maybe we could find efficiencies,

00:32:03 Speaker 05: and you know, identifying the parking contract because I think if we are hiring more bylaw officers, then that parking contract has got to go.

00:32:11 Speaker 05: It's in at least or be diminished.

00:32:16 Speaker 05: We can't... we can't be doing the parking contract and hiring more bylaw officers—it doesn't make any sense to me financially.

00:32:23 Speaker 05: I struggle even with the parking contract, spending $50,000.

00:32:29 Speaker 05: How much money does it bring in, and what does it really accomplish?

00:32:32 Speaker 05: That's a conversation for another day.

00:32:35 Speaker 05: I also struggle with the seasonality of the issues.

00:32:39 Speaker 05: It's an April to October type problem.

00:32:43 Speaker 05: So hiring multiple full-time officers to me...

00:32:48 Speaker 05: I'm not sure that it makes sense.

00:32:50 Speaker 05: I also struggle with having to pay for this ourselves because this is a social service type issue, as far as I'm concerned.

00:32:59 Speaker 05: As being the regional hub, we have all of the social services here; hence, we have all of the problems associated with that, and we're stuck paying for it again.

00:33:09 Speaker 05: I give Grey County kudos for coming to the table and stepping up with helping with the court costs and...

00:33:16 Speaker 05: I'd be looking to them to possibly help in some way with this sort of issue.

00:33:26 Speaker 05: I'd be in favour of the supervisor.

00:33:28 Speaker 05: I'm certainly not in favour of adding two full-timers, so I don't know what we want to do here.

00:33:38 Speaker 03: Through your worship, I just want to flag one thing that you mentioned: parking enforcement is covered by the DIA and that is through their levy.

00:33:47 Speaker 03: We recover more than just the cost of that.

00:33:50 Speaker 03: Bylaw officers would not be eligible, as they benefit the city as a whole, to utilise the DIA levy to cover those costs.

00:33:58 Speaker 03: So, if we were to reduce the cost of parking enforcement, we would have to reduce the amount that the DIA contributes, and there wouldn't be a net impact to the city's budget.

00:34:12 Speaker 01: Wouldn't we just transfer parking to this duty so it's still being done and still being part of that, through your worship?

00:34:28 Speaker 01: Yes, I suppose you could.

00:34:30 Speaker 03: There would have to be very transparent support for the cost of parking enforcement that is borne by the DIA and the cost of general bylaw enforcement that benefits the city as a whole,

00:34:45 Speaker 03: which may be challenging to transparently differentiate when you've got one person doing both.

00:34:53 Speaker 03: Marion, thank you.

00:34:57 Speaker 02: Would it have been the intent to have one of the individuals or a part-time individual dedicated to the River District?

00:35:07 Speaker 02: And if so, can the River District not option to help contribute toward that if they are not contributing toward parking anymore?

00:35:23 Speaker 08: Through your worship, yes, our intent was to have that one full-time officer be dedicated to the River District.

00:35:28 Speaker 08: So certainly, we could request that the funds be moved to that to pay towards that from the River District.

00:35:39 Speaker 08: Okay, a couple other issues.

00:35:43 Speaker 02: When we say boots on the ground, and currently there is a parking enforcement officer, that parking enforcement officer is not doing the same job as a bylaw enforcement officer.

00:35:55 Speaker 02: They are not looking at all the other issues, and obviously the dynamics for bylaw enforcement have changed, and obviously business owners are demanding more coverage in this area because of issues that are happening.

00:36:16 Speaker 02: So, I mean, I hope they would be amenable to helping contribute to somewhat of a solution.

00:36:24 Speaker 02: I'm prepared at this time to make a motion that's part of the recommendation.

00:36:32 Speaker 02: But my recommendation would be to support option one B and that is maybe taking a small step before we take a big leap financially, and see how things work out with that.

00:36:48 Speaker 02: Thank you, Scott.

00:36:52 Speaker 11: I'm partly in agreement.

00:36:55 Speaker 11: I was going to move to A because I think there is a seasonality component to what goes on.

00:37:01 Speaker 11: So I was further intrigued by the biology student.

00:37:04 Speaker 11: I just want to comment that, Councillor Milborough, you mentioned the social services impact, but it's not entirely all on social services.

00:37:12 Speaker 11: So I just don't want us to portray a certain component of the community that could be someone that comes to Owen Sound to enjoy an evening at an establishment and gets impaired and throws a

00:37:22 Speaker 11: rock through a window.

00:37:23 Speaker 11: So we just want to be cautious about who we're portraying this issue, you know, specifically.

00:37:32 Speaker 11: There are certain individuals that consume more resources.

00:37:37 Speaker 11: However, it is a broad challenge.

00:37:40 Speaker 11: Some of the issues and their residents of the community as much as anyone that might be just passing through or more of a transit.

00:37:52 Speaker 10: Thank you, Mayor.

00:37:53 Speaker 10: With that, I just wanted to note also, in speaking about Owen Sound Police Services, they do an incredible job for the city.

00:38:00 Speaker 10: So I just want to make people aware of that, and my comments today are not anywhere to undermine their services.

00:38:07 Speaker 10: It's really about just the oversight and the operational aspect of whether the city is writing a check to Owen Sound Police Services an X amount,

00:38:14 Speaker 10: and not having as much of that oversight into the operations, etc. They do a great job.

00:38:21 Speaker 10: Their core team, their M Hart team, and then the regular constables all fulfil a certain need we have.

00:38:28 Speaker 10: So again, I just didn't want anybody to misinterpret my comments as being disparaging to Owen Sound Police Services.

00:38:35 Speaker 10: They do fulfil a great role for the city.

00:38:41 Speaker 05: If we were to go with one B, could the part-time officer be a contract position to start,

00:38:51 Speaker 05: so that it's not ingrained into our that we have options that we can evaluate and it's easier to deal with if we decide that it's not having the impact that we want?

00:39:04 Speaker 10: Through the mayor, we could position that when we brought it forward through the budget to the mayor's budget that we would highlight that as a contract role.

00:39:15 Speaker 07: I think there's one of these decisions where it's not black and white; it's multiple shades of gray, perhaps not even one shade of gray.

00:39:26 Speaker 07: A year ago when we went to AMO, this year we went to AMO.

00:39:30 Speaker 07: Interestingly enough, I counted done words we're not supposed to use anymore: downtown issues.

00:39:39 Speaker 07: There was really one session.

00:39:41 Speaker 07: There were only four sessions in housing, and they weren't all about affordable housing.

00:39:45 Speaker 07: They were talking about, you know, sort of the provincial plan for increasing housing.

00:39:51 Speaker 07: The year before, one of the sessions I went to had some really good speakers, and they differentiated between the social services aspect of helping people and the other perspective looking at downtown issues,

00:40:08 Speaker 07: which was on more policing.

00:40:11 Speaker 07: From the policing side, there's a Charter of Rights that affects every one of us; we can't be arbitrarily arrested, etc. There have been directions that have come from the federal government telling police officers,

00:40:26 Speaker 07: or Crown attorneys, or federal prosecutors not to proceed with any simple possession of drugs, no matter what that drug is.

00:40:36 Speaker 07: So when they see somebody using, they're not supposed to do anything about it.

00:40:40 Speaker 07: But they want to change that, and they have been working on changing that.

00:40:44 Speaker 07: So the police have been caught between a rock and a hard place.

00:40:48 Speaker 07: But so is this Council.

00:40:50 Speaker 07: You know, we're constantly hearing from the public that we're not doing anything for downtown, that downtown isn't safe, which is nonsense.

00:40:57 Speaker 07: We've been in Ottawa in the last couple of weeks.

00:41:02 Speaker 07: We're in London a couple of years ago.

00:41:03 Speaker 07: We've been in Barrie.

00:41:04 Speaker 07: We've been in Guelph.

00:41:05 Speaker 07: We've been in Sudbury.

00:41:06 Speaker 07: Been in various downtowns that are taking one heck of a kicking.

00:41:12 Speaker 07: We're not that bad.

00:41:15 Speaker 07: People will complain that I'm saying we're not that bad.

00:41:20 Speaker 07: The County of Grey is doing a wonderful job on the social services side.

00:41:24 Speaker 07: The Brightshore Health Unit, with those health services, and the Bayview School Project, has had a major impact in helping people on the street.

00:41:36 Speaker 07: You're downtown all the time, Melanie.

00:41:38 Speaker 07: You're downtown all the time, Tim.

00:41:40 Speaker 07: Everyone around the table, you know, it's about eight to ten people that you can recognize all the time; they are the most visible.

00:41:48 Speaker 07: Are they dangerous?

00:41:50 Speaker 07: Well, some are, on a rare occasion, but most of them aren't.

00:41:56 Speaker 07: You know, if you stop and talk to them, some of them are brilliant people that you can have a brilliant conversation with.

00:42:03 Speaker 07: I walk past the seated area over by Tim Hortons daily and have conversations with people daily.

00:42:09 Speaker 07: Some of them wanted brooms because they wanted to clean up the cigarette butts over there.

00:42:13 Speaker 07: Now, someone else keeps stealing the broom, but besides that, there is an absolute desire of people that are there; that's their living room; they're willing to share it with anybody.

00:42:23 Speaker 07: They don't necessarily take over benches, but maybe they make it uncomfortable for others.

00:42:27 Speaker 07: But Friday afternoons, you go by at four o'clock, they've got their own impromptu concert going on over there.

00:42:33 Speaker 07: They've made that part of their community.

00:42:35 Speaker 07: I think that's important.

00:42:36 Speaker 07: But I think there's some desire in the community for us to do something to change the visibility downtown.

00:42:44 Speaker 07: We used to have parking metres that we were collecting from, and that was a big part; bylaw enforcement was collecting the coins, etc. That's changed.

00:42:55 Speaker 07: Part of that at the time was giving it to DIA to fund the other side of it because we're removing parking metres.

00:43:04 Speaker 07: But that isn't something that we can't look at again and shouldn't look at again, and decide if we've got a duplication of service with two different groups walking down Main Street.

00:43:14 Speaker 07: Or maybe it's good that you've got two different groups walking down Main Street for the cost,

00:43:19 Speaker 07: having some kind of appearance to the public that this is safe and that there's people there to see things,

00:43:24 Speaker 07: and we've put in a gazillion cameras and more being added or maybe have been added recently to try and make downtown safe.

00:43:31 Speaker 07: So part of this is changing the talking points in the community on downtown because it is safe and we're so superior to other communities.

00:43:44 Speaker 07: So I'm in favour with Marion of this, Tim.

00:43:48 Speaker 07: Mary just said something that I wanted to highlight.

00:43:50 Speaker 10: Also, the notion of having the boots on the ground.

00:43:54 Speaker 10: We've talked a lot about the people issues, but one thing that we're talking about also is going from compliance to enforcement, more of a proactive approach.

00:44:03 Speaker 10: So having that bylaw officer walking the beat and noting facades, snow clearing of sidewalks, general things like walks, general things that, from a property standards issue, they're seeing every day and can monitor,

00:44:16 Speaker 10: and can actually then proactively say, you know what, this window's broken, or that one's broken, or this needs to be fixed, and then being able to monitor it because they're down there every day,

00:44:28 Speaker 10: rather than hear somebody waiting for somebody to call in.

00:44:31 Speaker 10: Because I think that's a lot of citizen perception is, well, the City sees that business is totally not, you know, this and that's happening there, and we don't operate that way because we're compliant;

00:44:44 Speaker 10: compliance and complaint based.

00:44:46 Speaker 10: But again, having the boots on the ground, I think will bring some additional, let's call it enforcement, proactive enforcement to the physical realm of the River District.

00:44:57 Speaker 07: Also, that brings me back.

00:45:00 Speaker 07: Hold on just for a second, Scott.

00:45:01 Speaker 07: That brings me back.

00:45:02 Speaker 07: We've just had a discussion about one part of the town.

00:45:05 Speaker 07: However, the big part of this was about going to enforcement versus complaint oriented.

00:45:14 Speaker 07: That we heard from the community; there's the big decision, and that's we've just overlooked that.

00:45:20 Speaker 07: Anything you want to add to that, Scott, or anything?

00:45:23 Speaker 11: Well, we didn't totally overlook it.

00:45:25 Speaker 11: We accepted some of those recommendations at the last meeting in July: proactive versus complaint driven.

00:45:30 Speaker 11: Just a question for staff with the part-time officer, just to confirm for me, there's some flexibility in the hours, and I'm just going to say, last night there was one business, main floor business,

00:45:44 Speaker 11: last night.

00:45:44 Speaker 11: Clear as day, they owe the taxpayer of Owen Sound $30 because there's 10 bags of garbage out there without tags.

00:45:52 Speaker 11: Is there the flexibility there so that we can be identifying some of these missing revenue opportunities and enforcing that the way we should be?

00:46:04 Speaker 11: Through your Worship?

00:46:05 Speaker 08: That is fully our intent to have those hours be flexible, and also with that supervisor,

00:46:10 Speaker 08: they'll help to make sure we're monitoring sort of when those times should be to make sure we're getting the best use out of that position.

00:46:19 Speaker 08: Would we count ten bags?

00:46:21 Speaker 08: So, anything else?

00:46:23 Speaker 07: So, we call the question, and so Marion's motion is: I'm going to go to Brandon second, but as one B, Brandon.

00:46:31 Speaker 07: Through your Worship, sorry, I had my Clerk hat on.

00:46:33 Speaker 07: I just wanted to confirm that it was one B. Christine had already pointed that out to me.

00:46:43 Speaker 07: Okay, so all in favour?

00:46:48 Speaker 07: That's carried, and so did Marion.

00:46:58 Speaker 07: So I think it gets us through the biggest part of the agenda.

00:47:01 Speaker 07: At ten, we have no motion.

00:47:02 Speaker 07: Agenda at ten.

00:47:02 Speaker 07: We have no motions for which notice was previously given.

00:47:06 Speaker 07: No correspondence provided for information.

00:47:08 Speaker 07: Discussion of additional business.

00:47:10 Speaker 07: We didn't have any notice of motions.

00:47:13 Speaker 07: Seeing no hands going up.

00:47:15 Speaker 07: So with that, we've completed our business at nine forty-nine.

00:47:18 Speaker 07: We're adjourned.

00:47:19 Speaker 07: Thanks, everybody.