• CannonFodder@lemmy.world
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    8 found this helpful
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    2 days ago

    As bad as it is, that really should have been enough. But too many idiot Americans failed to effectively vote against Trump; so they are responsible for him. You can cry that she didn’t motivate people, or her platform wasn’t perfect or even that her laugh was annoying. But whatever. You didn’t stop Trump, that’s on you.

    • SippyCup@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      I mean, I voted for her knowing she was going to lose if that helps you at all. Same for Clinton actually, who ran on an identical platform and lost to the same fucking guy.

      It’s on the Democrats. for absolutely refusing to run on policy. Twice.

    • Grimy@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      On a scale of 1 to 5, with 1 being “not perfect” and 5 being “What the fuck are they thinking. They don’t even pretend to represent us, this is just vile.”, where do you rank helping a foreign apartheid state commit genocide?

      The criticism isn’t about her motivating people. She deserves to be villafied. Her “platform” was disgusting. Stop scapegoating just because the newsletter tells you to.

      • CannonFodder@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        Not sure what newsletters you get, but please stop trying to project your narrow-mindedness on me.
        I would love it if the Dems were to run someone who was actually progressive and took a strong stance against violence. But the billionaire class owns the politicians and the media, so it’s literally impossible to go there too fast without a revolution. Too many Americans would be taken in by any media play to villainize a ‘communist’ candidate. Heck, the reason you hate Harris is partly from the efforts of the right wing media to sow division in the democrats so as to get their tax/regulation reducing guy in power. So we end up with a dem candidate who will still keep the billionaires happy. But it’s a simple fact of which viable candidate was better/worse. If you can’t see that Harris would have been better than trump by a lot, then you’re being willfully ignorant. And there’s a whole timeline issue with calling Harris a genocide supporter. At the time of the last election, Isreal was still arguably fighting Hamas who was still firing rockets daily at Israeli civilians after starting the latest escalation in the October attacks. Of course Isreal was committing human rights violations back then, as they have been for decades, but it wasn’t genocide by any reasonable definition at that point. Who knows how Harris would have reacted to the increased brutality and clearly unnecessary violence by Isreal? Probably Isreal wouldn’t have gone so far because of some pushback from a Harris administration. But there’s no way it would be as bad as under Trump, with Isreal basically directing the U.S. military and trump encouraging the complete destruction of Gaza and now Lebanon. So the failure to vote for Harris in the simple choice of her or Trump, is a direct cause of the worst violence against the Palestinians in a long time. Not to mention just about every other issue that failing to reject trump has damaged, from abortion rights, gay/trans rights, brutality against non-citizens, brutality against peaceful protestors, removal of environment protections, removal of healthcare funding, funding for science, funding for education/libraries, relations with international allies, dramatic cost of living increases, etc. All that for some moronic inability to choose the not-as-bad candidate. We need to do better. And if we actually get an election, we need to stop splitting hairs and dividing the left and get back some power so we can then push to clean things up. It’s either that or full blown revolution, but we know Americans don’t have the ability to do that for various excuses.

        • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
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          11 found this helpful
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          2 days ago

          They were still doing a genocide under joe biden. She did nothing to distance herself from the admin and the only people to blame for her loss are herself and her enablers.

          • CannonFodder@lemmy.world
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            1 day ago

            Well you can call it that if you want, but no one has ever used that term for similar actions in the past. It confuses things. And it actually minimizes the word, giving it less power for now when we need it.
            But it honestly sounds like you are happy trump won and you are good with the horrific results in the ME. You do you, I guess.

            • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
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              1 day ago

              no one has ever used that term for similar actions in the past.

              They have, it’s been a genocide. The whole point of the genocide convention was to stop them while they’re happening, not to preserve the term for historical labeling and partisan bickering. The person cynically wielding and demeaning the term is you, because you only recognize genocide when it’s not ‘your guy’ doing it.

              People like you disgust me. So invested in team loyalty you will minimize a genocide to avoid admitting your own parties participation. Just because I criticize democrats for their complicity doesn’t mean I am happy Trump won.

              • CannonFodder@lemmy.world
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                13 hours ago

                I have no loyalty to Israel. Your blind disgust of anyone who doesn’t 110% agree with your semantics just makes you sound ignorant.
                I would agree that what Israel has been doing for a year now is genocide. Israel is attacking civilians with intent to destroy the people of Gaza for their religious/racial association. That’s genocide. However, before this, their stated goal was to eliminate the military capabilities of Hamas. It was war. Hamas was firing unguided rockets at Israel, Israel was hitting Hamas targets (with a terrible disregard for civilians casualties from proximity or poorly determined targets). That’s no more genocide than the UK bombing Nazi Germany’s military production areas in wwii. Typical uses of the term genocide in the past have involved selective targeting of particular races within an area, and the intent to ‘purify’ the population. This makes it even a stretch to apply the term to Israel now but it’s ambiguous because of the severe ethnic divide between Israel and Gaza. That said, there are plenty of Arabs and Muslims inside Israel (not including Gaza or wb). They are not being killed. They don’t have full rights, so one might call this an apartheid.
                So yes Israel is evil and should be stopped, but it’s important not to be revisionist here, especially regarding the democratic platform in the last US election vis a vis Israel. Making such a distinction between now and then allows things to change for the better. We can allow people to change their stance and now push back on Israel, which is the goal - not just crying about being a victim perpetually and assigning blame.

                • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
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                  12 hours ago

                  You have no loyalty to ‘Israel’ yet you spend all this energy denying their genocide and doing hasbara on their behalf.

                  comparing occupied Palestinians to Nazi Germany is absolutely vile. They’re not a military power threatening ‘Israel’, they’re a captive population being exterminated.

                  It’s been an obvious genocidal apartheid state since the Nakba in 1948.

                  Democrats didn’t ‘change their stance’, they armed the entity through election day and lost defending it. You’re still making excuses. That’s the team loyalty I called you out for.

                  the person saying I have blind hatred:

                  • CannonFodder@lemmy.world
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                    12 hours ago

                    You really should learn to read, and not be blinded by your hatred. But I won’t hold my breath. You shit on everyone else not perfectly aligned with your perspective, even people calling out Isreal now. See how well that helps the situation.